Veselu Velku Noc
Ross Hedvicek
At 09:00 PM 4/11/98 +0200, Roman Kanala wrote
>On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:21:33 -0400, Bachelor Frajkor wrote:
>
>> Happy Easter to all.
>>
>>Xristos Voskres.
>
>Thanks for the bilingual wishes, the first one in English,
>the second one in Slovak, which language is "vidno jak psoj kulki".
>Real Slovak ? Real Azbuk ?
Frajkor's priorities were always clear :-)
Rosta
>
>Anyway, be well, my boy.
>
>Roman Kanala
>
George Frajkor
Roman Kanala wrote:
>
> On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:21:33 -0400, Bachelor Frajkor wrote:
>
> > Happy Easter to all.
> >
> >Xristos Voskres.
>
> Thanks for the bilingual wishes, the first one in English,
> the second one in Slovak, which language is "vidno jak psoj kulki".
> Real Slovak ? Real Azbuk ?
Most educated Slovaks, and all who know Slovak history, know
that Xristos Voskres is Old Slavonic, meaning "Christ is risen".
It is used as an Easter Greeting to this day, particularly in
Eastern Slovakia and the Byzantine rite churches. The correct reply
to the greeting is "Vo istinnu Voskres", which means "Indeed he is
risen".
Xristos is the spelling from ancient greek, in which the letter
we think of as x is "chi". Early Christians often used X alone as
abbreviation for Xristos.
It is still sometimes used in the West today in such short forms
as Merry Xmas.
Jan George Frajkor _!_
School of Journalism, Carleton Univ. --!--
1125 Colonel By Drive |
Ottawa, Ontario /^\
Canada K1S 5B6 /^\ /^\
gfra...@ccs.carleton.ca / aa...@freenet.carleton.ca
o: 613 520-7404 fax: 613 520-6690 h: 613 563-4534
Barton Ivan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roman Kanala [SMTP:kan...@IPROLINK.CH]
> Sent: 15. apríl 1998 17:59
>
> >> > Happy Easter to all.
> >> >
> >> > Xristos Voskres.
> >>
>
> is being used in Russian. Of course, Old Slavonic is a living language
> frequently spoken by many Real Slovaks. Vladimir Meciar studied in
> Moscow, too, so what ?
>
> Roman Kanala
>
Thats the point: Slovak == Old Slavonic == Russian, in minds of
the so called Real Slovaks.
And thats why we can not accept it. Enough of Russian culture
in the middle Europe.
Ivan Barton
Roman Kanala
Ivan Barton writes:
> Thats the point: Slovak == Old Slavonic == Russian, in minds of
>the so called Real Slovaks.
> And thats why we can not accept it. Enough of Russian culture
>in the middle Europe.
That's exactly my feelings. However, activities of Devin Banka,
total energetic dependence on East, aircraft provider monopoly,
Gazprom "investment" in Slovensky plynarensky priemysel, under
conditions that disgusted even J. Ducky (by the way, on the StB listing,
too, thus not a kid from Sunday chorus) - that's not exactly what I am
calling "cultural influence"...
Real Slovaks obviously see it otherwise, of course...
Roman Kanala
Roman Kanala
Bachelor Frajkor wrote in response to my comments on his X-wishes:
>> > Happy Easter to all.
>> >
>> > Xristos Voskres.
>>
>> Thanks for the bilingual wishes, the first one in English,
>> the second one in Slovak, which language is "vidno jak psoj kulki".
>> Real Slovak ? Real Azbuk ?
>
> Most educated Slovaks, and all who know Slovak history, know
>that Xristos Voskres is Old Slavonic, meaning "Christ is risen".
> It is used as an Easter Greeting to this day, particularly in
>Eastern Slovakia and the Byzantine rite churches. The correct reply
>to the greeting is "Vo istinnu Voskres", which means "Indeed he is
>risen".
> Xristos is the spelling from ancient greek, in which the letter
>we think of as x is "chi". Early Christians often used X alone as
>abbreviation for Xristos.
> It is still sometimes used in the West today in such short forms
>as Merry Xmas.
Incidentally, the very same text (in Cyrillics and using X as 'ch')
Zuzana Gimerska
George Frajkor wrote:
> Roman Kanala wrote:
>
> > Incidentally, the very same text (in Cyrillics and using X as 'ch')
> > is being used in Russian.
The same sentence as Mr. Frajkor wrote is used in Russian language.
> Of course, Old Slavonic is a living language
> > frequently spoken by many Real Slovaks. Vladimir Meciar studied in
> > Moscow, too, so what ?
>
> Latin is also in use by the Catholic Church, which only in the
> twisted mind of someone like yourself would in any way connect with
> current Italian politics.
The previous sentence in connection with the written above is the evidence
of "twisted mind".
> Frankly, I find it quite distasteful to make fun of other
> people's religious beliefs, but I suppose it is to be expected of the
> Czechophile element.
Nobody is making fun-but according to Slovak language we use: Kristus vstal
z mrtvych. As you see it is much different from what you have written.
Zuzana Gimerska
George Frajkor
Roman Kanala wrote:
> Incidentally, the very same text (in Cyrillics and using X as 'ch')
> is being used in Russian. Of course, Old Slavonic is a living language
> frequently spoken by many Real Slovaks. Vladimir Meciar studied in
> Moscow, too, so what ?
Latin is also in use by the Catholic Church, which only in the
twisted mind of someone like yourself would in any way connect with
current Italian politics.
Frankly, I find it quite distasteful to make fun of other
people's religious beliefs, but I suppose it is to be expected of the
Czechophile element.
George Frajkor
Zuzana Gimerska wrote:
> George Frajkor wrote:
> > Roman Kanala wrote:
> > > Incidentally, the very same text (in Cyrillics and using X as 'ch')
> > > is being used in Russian.
> The same sentence as Mr. Frajkor wrote is used in Russian language.
> > Of course, Old Slavonic is a living language
> > > frequently spoken by many Real Slovaks. Vladimir Meciar studied in
> > > Moscow, too, so what ?
> > Latin is also in use by the Catholic Church, which only in the
> > twisted mind of someone like yourself would in any way connect with
> > current Italian politics.
> The previous sentence in connection with the written above is the
> evidence of "twisted mind".
Yes, it certainly is. Glad you agree with me about Kanala. His
sentence makes as much sense as responding to "Happy Easter" by noting
that it is English, Bill Clinton -- a corrupt and sex-mad political
leader -- studied in England as well.
> Nobody is making fun-but according to Slovak language we use:
> Kristus vstal z mrtvych. As you see it is much different from what
> you have written.
Perhaps you should attend a Greek-catholic church at Easter.
The one near St. Ondrej's cemetery in Bratislava will do. The Old
Slavonic mass ritual is still in use. As are the greetings "Xristos
Voskres"and "Vo istinnu voskres". Real Slovaks know that.
George Frajkor
Roman Kanala wrote:
> Only a twisted mind can pretend that the current Italian politics
> IS conducted in Latin. The sentence that the bachelor wrote indeed
> is in Russian, in which the current Russian politics is conducted.
> Vidno jak psoj kulki.
I see Roman is still as ignorant of Old Slavonic and its relations
to modern Russian as he is of archaic eastern Slovak.
> Who is "making fun of other people's religious beliefs" ?
> What religious beliefs ? That Latin is the language of current
> Italian politics ? That Old Slavonic is the language of current
> Russian politics ? That Jan Goebbels Frajkor has his place on the
> right place of the God's throne ? That Jan Goebbels Frajkor is
> the Real-Slovak-in-Chief ? That Bachelor Frajkor has not enough
> young students for doing him oral sex, as he publicly complaints ?
> That there is no better way of celebrating the Constitution day
> than breaking kneecaps, courtesy of the psychopat from Ford
> Motor Company, in response to listowner's threats to a journalist
> of SME daily about breaking kneecaps ?
> Look my boy, be an Azbuk agent who cannot speak a word in Slovak,
> be a dirty fascist provocator, be a shameless outlaughed
> propagandist, but don't try to hide your dirt under carpet of
> "religious beliefs". Xristos Voskres, vidno jak psoj kulki...
Happy Easter.
George Frajkor
Roman Kanala wrote:
>
> Ivan Barton writes:
>
> > Thats the point: Slovak == Old Slavonic == Russian, in minds of
> >the so called Real Slovaks.
Actually, there is no equivalence. Old Slavonic is the
predecessor language, not a contemporary. Just as Latin is a
predecessor language to French, Italian, Spanish, etc., and does not
imply that French and Italian societies are the same.
Real Slovaks know this of course. Perhaps you should take a course
in Slovak history?
> > And thats why we can not accept it. Enough of Russian culture
> >in the middle Europe.
The Byzantine rite of the Catholic church is not Russian
culture. On the contrary, it was suppressed by the Russians.
> That's exactly my feelings. However, activities of Devin Banka,
> total energetic dependence on East, aircraft provider monopoly,
> Gazprom "investment" in Slovensky plynarensky priemysel, under
> conditions that disgusted even J. Ducky (by the way, on the StB listing,
> too, thus not a kid from Sunday chorus) - that's not exactly what I am
> calling "cultural influence"...
> Real Slovaks obviously see it otherwise, of course...
Somehow, I have never associated the Devin Bank, the aircraft
situation, natural gas etc., with the old Slavonic religious rites. I
guess the old Bolshevik influence on Kanala is still very strong.
George Frajkor
Zuzana Gimerska wrote:
> Mr. Frajkor, in Slovakia most people are Roman Catholics. There are
> some people especially in several parts of Eastern Slovakia(very
> east and the north-east part of Eastern Slovakia) who belong to
> Greek-Catholic Church (belongs to pope in Rome) and Orthodox Church
> (belongs to Moscow patriarch) .
I am well aware of this. Our family are Greek Catholic, and of
Eastern Slovak origin.
> In the fifties under communist regime Greek-Catholic Church was
> almost destroyed. And a lot of people "changed" the Greek-Catholic
> Curch for Orthodox. I suppose you know about problems between these
> churches after 1989. But in Greek-Catholic Church, masses are in
> Slovak. Just one mass on Sunday is in old-slavonic language as it is
> Latin mass in Roman Catholics Church. But your words are used in
> Orthodox Church and I suppose you know differences between these
> churches.
I have attended both the Old Slavonic and the Slovak masses at the
church in Bratislava. In Eastern Slovakia, Old Slavonic is still
considerably used in the Mass.
> Please, try to say these words in other parts of Slovakia, the
> people will not understand you as they will not understand Latin
> words in whole Slovakia.
I HAVE used those greetings, in many parts of Slovakia, and have
seldom if ever been understood. No more than an American would
misunderstand if I said "E pluribus Unuum" nor a Canadian if I said
"Ad Mare jusque a mare". Nor would a Roman catholic misunderstand
if I said "Dominus vobiscum" or "Ite, missa est".
Roman Kanala
Bachelor Frajkor, using still the same irresistible, moving childish
logic, wrote in response to my former text:
>> Incidentally, the very same text (in Cyrillics and using X as 'ch')
>> is being used in Russian. Of course, Old Slavonic is a living language
>> frequently spoken by many Real Slovaks. Vladimir Meciar studied in
>> Moscow, too, so what ?
>
> Latin is also in use by the Catholic Church, which only in the
>twisted mind of someone like yourself would in any way connect with
>current Italian politics.
Only a twisted mind can pretend that the current Italian politics
IS conducted in Latin. The sentence that the bachelor wrote indeed
is in Russian, in which the current Russian politics is conducted.
Vidno jak psoj kulki.
> Frankly, I find it quite distasteful to make fun of other
>people's religious beliefs, but I suppose it is to be expected of the
>Czechophile element.
Who is "making fun of other people's religious beliefs" ?
What religious beliefs ? That Latin is the language of current
Italian politics ? That Old Slavonic is the language of current
Russian politics ? That Jan Goebbels Frajkor has his place on the
right place of the God's throne ? That Jan Goebbels Frajkor is
the Real-Slovak-in-Chief ? That Bachelor Frajkor has not enough
young students for doing him oral sex, as he publicly complaints ?
That there is no better way of celebrating the Constitution day
than breaking kneecaps, courtesy of the psychopat from Ford
Motor Company, in response to listowner's threats to a journalist
of SME daily about breaking kneecaps ?
Look my boy, be an Azbuk agent who cannot speak a word in Slovak,
be a dirty fascist provocator, be a shameless outlaughed
propagandist, but don't try to hide your dirt under carpet of
"religious beliefs". Xristos Voskres, vidno jak psoj kulki...
> Jan George Frajkor _!_
> School of Journalism, Carleton Univ. --!--
> 1125 Colonel By Drive |
> Ottawa, Ontario /^\
> Canada K1S 5B6 /^\ /^\
> gfra...@ccs.carleton.ca / aa...@freenet.carleton.ca
> o: 613 520-7404 fax: 613 520-6690 h: 613 563-4534
Baroque-ubuesque signature underlining the surrealist character
of the thread... Like discussing with an ET.
Roman Kanala
Zuzana Gimerska
George Frajkor wrote:
> Zuzana Gimerska wrote:
>
> > George Frajkor wrote:
>
> > > Roman Kanala wrote:
>
> > > > Incidentally, the very same text (in Cyrillics and using X as 'ch')
> > > > is being used in Russian.
>
> > The same sentence as Mr. Frajkor wrote is used in Russian language.
>
> > > Of course, Old Slavonic is a living language
> > > > frequently spoken by many Real Slovaks. Vladimir Meciar studied in
> > > > Moscow, too, so what ?
>
> > > Latin is also in use by the Catholic Church, which only in the
> > > twisted mind of someone like yourself would in any way connect with
> > > current Italian politics.
>
> > The previous sentence in connection with the written above is the
> > evidence of "twisted mind".
>
> Yes, it certainly is. Glad you agree with me about Kanala.
I am glad you are making a fun.
> His
> sentence makes as much sense as responding to "Happy Easter" by noting
> that it is English, Bill Clinton -- a corrupt and sex-mad political
> leader -- studied in England as well.
Again - I am glad you are making a fun or you do not want to understand.
> > Nobody is making fun-but according to Slovak language we use:
> > Kristus vstal z mrtvych. As you see it is much different from what
> > you have written.
>
> Perhaps you should attend a Greek-catholic church at Easter.
> The one near St. Ondrej's cemetery in Bratislava will do. The Old
> Slavonic mass ritual is still in use. As are the greetings "Xristos
> Voskres"and "Vo istinnu voskres". Real Slovaks know that.
Mr. Frajkor, in Slovakia most people are Roman Catholics. There are some
people especially in several parts of Eastern Slovakia(very east and the
north-east part of Eastern Slovakia) who belong to Greek-Catholic Church
(belongs to pope in Rome) and Orthodox Church (belongs to Moscow patriarch) .
In the fifties under communist regime Greek-Catholic Church was almost
destroyed. And a lot of people "changed" the Greek-Catholic Curch for
Orthodox. I suppose you know about problems between these churches after
1989. But in Greek-Catholic Church, masses are in Slovak. Just one mass on
Sunday is in old-slavonic language as it is Latin mass in Roman Catholics
Church. But your words are used in Orthodox Church and I suppose you know
differences between these churches. Please, try to say these words in other
parts of Slovakia, the people will not understand you as they will not
understand Latin words in whole Slovakia. But I have forgotten they are not
REAL SLOVAKS.
Zuzana Gimerska
Zuzana Gimerska
George Frajkor wrote:
> Zuzana Gimerska wrote:
>
> > Mr. Frajkor, in Slovakia most people are Roman Catholics. There are
> > some people especially in several parts of Eastern Slovakia(very
> > east and the north-east part of Eastern Slovakia) who belong to
> > Greek-Catholic Church (belongs to pope in Rome) and Orthodox Church
> > (belongs to Moscow patriarch) .
>
> I am well aware of this. Our family are Greek Catholic, and of
> Eastern Slovak origin.
>
> > In the fifties under communist regime Greek-Catholic Church was
> > almost destroyed. And a lot of people "changed" the Greek-Catholic
> > Curch for Orthodox. I suppose you know about problems between these
> > churches after 1989. But in Greek-Catholic Church, masses are in
> > Slovak. Just one mass on Sunday is in old-slavonic language as it is
> > Latin mass in Roman Catholics Church. But your words are used in
> > Orthodox Church and I suppose you know differences between these
> > churches.
>
> I have attended both the Old Slavonic and the Slovak masses at the
> church in Bratislava. In Eastern Slovakia, Old Slavonic is still
> considerably used in the Mass.
You made several mistakes in last sentence. It is the same truth as Robert
Maxwell was Slovak as you have written recently. You again manipulate with
the facts.
Old Slavonic, just as lithurgic language, is used in masses in Eastern
Slovakia equally as in masses in other parts of Slovakia. Maybe you felt
you could allow it because you thought I came from Bratislava. But it is
your another mistake. Of course, your very often cited sentence
"Jak......" is not Old Slavonic, but Ruthenian or Ukrainian and it has
much to do with Russian and nothing with Slovak.
>
>
> > Please, try to say these words in other parts of Slovakia, the
> > people will not understand you as they will not understand Latin
> > words in whole Slovakia.
>
> I HAVE used those greetings, in many parts of Slovakia, and have
> seldom if ever been understood. No more than an American would
> misunderstand if I said "E pluribus Unuum" nor a Canadian if I said
> "Ad Mare jusque a mare". Nor would a Roman catholic misunderstand
> if I said "Dominus vobiscum" or "Ite, missa est".
Maybe you were be surprised. The last 45 years Russian not Latin was
taught at schools.
Zuzana Gimerska
Zuzana Gimerska
Zuzana Gimerska wrote:
> Maybe you were be surprised.
Of course - Maybe you would be surprised....
George Frajkor
Zuzana Gimerska wrote:
> George Frajkor wrote:
> > Zuzana Gimerska wrote:
> > > Latin mass in Roman Catholics Church. But your words are used in
> > > Orthodox Church and I suppose you know differences between these
> > > churches.
> > I have attended both the Old Slavonic and the Slovak masses at the
> > church in Bratislava. In Eastern Slovakia, Old Slavonic is still
> > considerably used in the Mass.
> You made several mistakes in last sentence. It is the same truth as Robert
> Maxwell was Slovak as you have written recently. You again manipulate with
> the facts.
I believe I corrected any mistakes I made about Maxwell's birth
origin, but his work in Slovakia and his friendship with Clementis
stand.
> Old Slavonic, just as lithurgic language, is used in masses in Eastern
> Slovakia equally as in masses in other parts of Slovakia. Maybe you felt
> you could allow it because you thought I came from Bratislava. But it is
> your another mistake. Of course, your very often cited sentence
> "Jak......" is not Old Slavonic, but Ruthenian or Ukrainian and it has
> much to do with Russian and nothing with Slovak.
It is, as anyone who knows eastern Slovakia can tell you, the
Vychodniarsky dialect. And it is that dialect as was used before
1920, which immigrants to the West taught their children here. And it
survives to this day in many parts of Eastern Slovakia. In fact, I
spoke it there to friends and relatives last year, in the autumn.
Zuzana Gimerska
George Frajkor wrote:
> Zuzana Gimerska wrote:
>
> > George Frajkor wrote:
>
> > > Zuzana Gimerska wrote:
>
> It is, as anyone who knows eastern Slovakia
Believe me, I know it very well.
> can tell you, the
> Vychodniarsky dialect.
There is nothing like vychodniarsky dialect. There are several dialects in
eastern Slovakia, e.g. sarissky, abovsky, zemplinsky, goralsky dialect, dialect
in Muran region (Revuca, Roznava) and there are languages: Ruthenian,Ukrainian,
Hungarian and of course, Slovak. People in very east part of eastern Slovakia
use informal form of Ruthenian and Ukrainian languages (although I cannot
distinguish the two languages) - and " your sentence " is the example of it.
Zuzana Gimerska
George Frajkor
Zuzana Gimerska wrote:
> There is nothing like vychodniarsky dialect. There are several
> dialects in eastern Slovakia, e.g. sarissky, abovsky, zemplinsky,
> goralsky dialect, dialect in Muran region (Revuca, Roznava) and
> there are languages: Ruthenian,Ukrainian, Hungarian and of course,
> Slovak. People in very east part of eastern Slovakia use informal
> form of Ruthenian and Ukrainian languages (although I cannot
> distinguish the two languages) - and " your sentence " is the
> example of it.
For the record, all of the above are considered vychodniarsky and
from my personal experience, easily recognized as such almost anywhere
in Slovakia. My family is from the Zemplin region but the difference
between that dialect and the saris/ goralsky are quite small. The
last time I ever managed to talk to former president Michal Kovac (he
is from Humenne, I believe) he immediately noted that it was
vychodniar, and even answered in the dialect.
George Frajkor
Zuzana Gimerska wrote:
> As I stated above there are great differences between goralsky (I suppose
> you haven't heard speak people from Spisska Stara Ves) and sarissky
> dialect. The differences between zemplinsky and sarissky dialect are
> small, but your famous sentence is not in zemplinsky dialect.
Sigh. You will just have to go convince all my relatives and their
whole village that they are not speaking their own language. Frankly,
I believed my mother, father and all the other Slovaks from that
district who came to Canada that they were indeed speaking in the
Zemplin way.
Zuzana Gimerska
George Frajkor wrote:
> Zuzana Gimerska wrote:
>
> > As I stated above there are great differences between goralsky (I suppose
> > you haven't heard speak people from Spisska Stara Ves) and sarissky
> > dialect. The differences between zemplinsky and sarissky dialect are
> > small, but your famous sentence is not in zemplinsky dialect.
>
> Sigh. You will just have to go convince all my relatives and their
> whole village that they are not speaking their own language.
Mixture of Ukrainian or Ruthenian and zemplinsky dialect - for me informal
Ukrainian or Ruthenian. I agree. There are great differences between the way of
speaking in Michalovce (centre of Zemplin) and e.g. Medzilaborce.
Zuzana Gimerska
Zuzana Gimerska
George Frajkor wrote:
> Zuzana Gimerska wrote:
>
> > There is nothing like vychodniarsky dialect. There are several
> > dialects in eastern Slovakia, e.g. sarissky, abovsky, zemplinsky,
> > goralsky dialect, dialect in Muran region (Revuca, Roznava) and
> > there are languages: Ruthenian,Ukrainian, Hungarian and of course,
> > Slovak. People in very east part of eastern Slovakia use informal
> > form of Ruthenian and Ukrainian languages (although I cannot
> > distinguish the two languages) - and " your sentence " is the
> > example of it.
>
> For the record, all of the above are considered vychodniarsky and
> from my personal experience, easily recognized as such almost anywhere
> in Slovakia.
You are not right. There are similarties among zemplinsky, sarissky and
maybe abovsky dialects. But goralsky dialect and dialect in Muran region
is much more different.
> My family is from the Zemplin region but the difference
> between that dialect and the saris/ goralsky are quite small.
As I stated above there are great differences between goralsky (I suppose
you haven't heard speak people from Spisska Stara Ves) and sarissky
dialect. The differences between zemplinsky and sarissky dialect are
small, but your famous sentence is not in zemplinsky dialect.
Zuzana Gimerska
> The
> last time I ever managed to talk to former president Michal Kovac (he
> is from Humenne, I believe) he immediately noted that it was
> vychodniar, and even answered in the dialect.
>