Gay rulers in Thailand
Norman Owen
that King Vajiravudh (Rama VI), r.1910-25, was gay. I don't know whether or
not this is/was true, and frankly I don't care who he may have shared his bed
with. But in the context of this ongoing discussion, I am interested in the
_perception_ (belief? knowledge?) that he was gay: how widely shared was it?
how much difference did it make in terms of political support for his programs?
I've heard/assumed that it was common knowledge in court circles, and did him
no good politically, but probably not a lot of harm, either. It would
obviously be something that the "smoothed" versions of Thai history within
Thailand would never refer to, so that's not much help.
Any Thai scholars out there who can shed further light on this?
Norman Owen
ngo...@hkucc.hku.hk
Thongchai Winichakul
Norman Owen <NGO...@HKUCC.HKU.HK> writes:
I think it is one of the worst kept secrets among Thai historians. But I
doubt if people outside the field or even new historians know this much. I
think it is a kind or norm, tradition, taboo (whatever you call), that we
won't discuss the issue publicly, hence no formal writing on it. This
hints that homosexuality is not really "accepted" as some may romaticize
about Thailand. In English the fact was mentioned in passing in some works
which don't deal with the issue. In Thai, the fact was hinted at in a few
works which deal with the King or his reign.
It must have been a common knowledge to his court at the time. There were
four attempts to marry him with princesses. All failed, though we can say
that the last one was officially succeeded. It is not clear if homosexuality
in itself hurt the credibility of the king or his reign. The king faced many
oppositions because of his choices or preferences of his close associates
and ministers, many of whom were incompetent. But only a few of them, who
happened to be among the most powerful couriters in his reign, were his male
partners. Others could be the wrong choices he made like every other
leaders could have done. The favors given to his partners were a subject of
gossip criticism like favors given by any other leaders to their cronies,
although in his case cronyism included his sexual partners. (Contrast with
Prem who was said to be uncorrupted because he has no "Madame Ten Percent"
which is rather an anti-women saying.) It looks like homosexuality in
itself was not to blame.
This should not confirm the romanticised notion that Thailand does not
discriminate against homosexuals. The Thais may treat homosexuality
differently from the West. But don't jump to the conclusion that they are so
tolerant just by comparing to the West.
Thongchai Winichakul, Assistant Professor
Dept. of History, Univ. of Wisconsin, 455 North Park St., Madison,
WI 53706, Ph.(608) 263-8931 FAX: (608) 263-5302
twin...@facstaff.wisc.edu
Paul Lightfoot
The office where I work overlooks Government House, a pretty building
which someone once told me was build by Rama VI for one of his
boyfriends. Anyone know if this is true?
James Matthew Newland
Thai politics and the monarchy.
Sincerely,
Matt Newland
J. Alan
First, the list ought not be limited to "news."
Second, I have seen no more gossip in this thread
than on others. Seems to me people are raising the
issue of homosexuality in the upper levels of the
Thai government, how aware people in the broader Thai
population are of this, and the impact it has on
politics, social issues, and so on.
Except in the really obvious cases where people like Wallace
and Nyiri have been abusing the list as a place to unload
their prejudices and nothing more, efforts to assume the
role of "list police" ought to be discouraged.
Jeffrey
Northwestern
Elizabeth R Vanderven
relevant to what people want to know about SEASIA as is obvious because of all
the queries/postings on the subject. What's not newsworthy about King
Vajiravuhd's personal life!?
Liz
F. K. Lehman
>issue of homosexuality in the upper levels of the
>Thai government, how aware people in the broader Thai
>population are of this, and the impact it has on
>politics, social issues, and so on.
>
>Except in the really obvious cases where people like Wallace
>and Nyiri have been abusing the list as a place to unload
>their prejudices and nothing more, efforts to assume the
>role of "list police" ought to be discouraged.
>Jeffrey
>Northwestern
>
In addition, there is the distinct possibility in this case of seeming to
censor material that might be construed as odious to the official state
ideology about the Thai monarchy. But this would border upon subjecting
ourselves to the Thai use of the charge of lese majeste. Now, where can one
discuss things about the customs, politics and history of these countries
without fear of being under pressure from the various restrictive state
ideologies of the region, except on this list? Since we must be acutely
aware of this latter problem, as South East Asianists, I suggest that we
tread especially lightly with regard to restricting what the List allows us
to argue about.
F. K. Lehman
Jenny Korn
orientation...i think that what needs to be rmembered is that the Thai
have a pretty accepting opinion of homosexuals, whether the person be a
king or a commoner...@=D Jenny Ungbhakorn