missing divers (longish)
kuty
At 05:22 PM 1/14/98 -0500, Christopher D. Blackwell wrote:
>Don't know how many of you have heard, but there are 3 divers
>missing ...
(CUT)
>... managed to surface from a deep dive of more than 245 feet
(CUT)
In order to prevent some quick judgements on deep air diving I enclose a
copy of a post that was sent to rec.scuba. According to this post it was a
trimix instructional dive. Of course you have to treat everything you read
in the newspapers with suspicion but I think that it is quite clear that it
was not our standard wimp air, recreational dive :-)
Start of quote:
*************************************************************
By KEVIN KRAUSE, Sun-Sentinel Staff Writer
Something had gone wrong at 245 feet below the ocean's surface -- the
cold, dark realm of a specialized breed of scuba diver: skilled, brave and
adventurous.
Mike Elkins, only on his second dive below 200 feet, began having
equipment problems on Monday during a deep sea instructional dive about two
miles off Riviera Beach. Three fellow divers tried to rescue him.
Larry Roth, 42, an experienced diver and former Navy helicopter pilot,
surfaced alone after taking 68 minutes to reach the surface.
Elkins, police diver John Claypool and Andre Smith, a local dive expert
and former Navy Seal, were still missing on Tuesday night after authorities
searched a day and a half by sea and air.
The U.S. Coast Guard thinks it's possible that Smith, 57, Claypool, 35,
and Elkins, 36, are still alive and are being pulled northward by the swift
Gulf Stream current.
All three men were wearing buoyant, rubber wetsuits, which could keep
them floating and protect them from the cold seas, said Coast Guard spokesman
Anthony DeKoning.
"If they surfaced, there is a good chance they're alive," he said.
The search, which included Coast Guard cutters and helicopters, a Jupiter
police marine unit, a Martin County sheriff's helicopter and several off-duty
West Palm Beach police officers in their personal boats, panned northward on
Tuesday, about 12 miles north of Jupiter.
The search resumes today at daybreak and likely will continue to move
northward, accounting for the pull of the Gulf Stream, which moves at about 4
knots -- the equivalent of 5 mph on land.
The S.S. Minnow, a 42-foot dive boat chartered by the Divers Supply dive
shop in Riviera Beach, had set off Monday from Phil Foster Park at about 1 p.m.
Aboard were the four divers, the wife of one of the divers and the boat's
owner and captain, Ed Cook, of Singer Island.
Smith and Cook were close friends and roommates and had met Claypool and
Elkins at Divers Supply, where Smith was manager. They often dived together on
the Minnow and had been out the day before, said Jeff Hirschman, assistant
manager of Divers Supply.
Smith, a military diver during the Vietnam War and a pioneer of deep
ocean diving, has logged more than 5,000 dives.
"These guys are a unique handful in Florida," said John Mahoney, captain
of the Sea Inn dive boat. "Andre pretty much wrote the book on (deep sea
diving)."
The purpose of Monday's dive was to take Elkins to the next level in deep
sea diving, called technical diving, Mahoney said. Elkins was learning to dive
more than 200 feet, a depth for which few instructors provide certification.
Comparable to the thrill and danger of skydiving and mountain climbing,
technical diving is a relatively new sport, taking divers more than 100 feet
below the level of most recreational dives.
Smith was the instructor. Claypool, a West Palm Beach police detective
and dive instructor, was divemaster. Roth, an experienced diver from Orange
Park, went along but did not participate in the instruction.
As the Minnow drifted over an artificial reef known as "classic barges"
about two miles north of the Lake Worth Inlet, the four men entered the water.
They descended at about 1:30 p.m., each with four tanks, one of which
contained Trimix, a mixture of air and helium containing less nitrogen than
air, allowing divers to mitigate the effects of narcosis, which can impair a
diver's judgment. The mix is necessary below 130 feet, and some people use it
at 100 feet.
About 4 p.m., Elkins began having trouble with his inflatable vest, an
air bladder that fills with air to help divers surface, DeKoning said. As he
was pulled upwards, he realized he had just enough air to get back to the
surface, DeKoning said.
"When you do that kind of diving, there is not much of a margin for
error," Mahoney said. "If you have equipment failure, you can't just surface or
you'll die or be paralyzed for life. It takes time."
Roth took Elkins' hand and led a slow ascent, while Smith guided Elkins
from below. Claypool, meanwhile, was preparing to ascend.
Suddenly, Roth felt Elkins' hand slip from his grip and watched him
slowly descend into darkness. The loss of weight caused Roth to swiftly rise.
He didn't have enough air to go back down, so he surfaced to call for help,
DeKoning said.
Palm Beach County sheriff's spokesman Paul Miller said Roth remembered
seeing Claypool at about 84 feet and said he seemed "in pretty good shape."
It's possible Claypool realized what happened and went down to help, Miller
said.
Only Roth made it to the boat.
"We're all hoping for the best," said West Palm Beach police spokeswoman
Dena Peterson. "Hopefully, their survival instincts will keep them afloat long
enough to bring them to safety."
Staff Writer Steve D'Oliveira, Editoral Assistant Linda Reeves and
Editorial Researchers Magaly Morales and Barbara Hijek contributed to this
report
*******************************************************
End of quote
With best regards,
Kuty
Dennis & Karen Withner
Divers All,
I have personal knowledge of at least two serious events involving divers
adrift for several hours in the NorthWest, and divers separated from the
group
in the Galapagos and of course, Cozumel. There have also been several tragic
losses in Micronesia and, enforced by the current events in Florida, it is
readily apparent that divers operating in open ocean conditions NEED to
carry appropriate signaling devices.
A LOUD whistle and vertical surface marker should be the minimum, with the
addition of a signal mirror and floating surface marker highly recommended.
Other useful possibilities could be; flares,strobe,dye marker,inferred
marker, ELT,marine radio,cell phone etc, depending on how sure a person
wants to be of being found, given the worst possibilities.
In two cases I know of, the sound signal, though quite loud, could not be
heard by people in the boats because of ambient noise or the adrift divers
being down or cross wind. It would seem that ensuring your visibility is
more likely to make for a quick recovery than a sounding device. This also
brings up the fact that bright colored gear that contrasts with the water/sky
color is more of a safety feature than a fashion statement.
One event involved two divers doing a reef between Sucia and Patos Islands in
the San Juan Islands who were misplaced by the dive tender due to rising
wind and swell. When they went down it was calm. When they were due to
surface (and did), the wind had picked up and swells were up to three feet
and building. The guys drifted northward for three and a half hours. The
boat operator quickly called for assistance (NEVER go out in a boat without a
VHF marine radio) and the search was on. The guys had no signals with them.
Participants in the search included the US and Canadian Coast Guard, a US
Navy vessel, US Coast Guard helicopter, WA State Parks Dept boat and several
civilian vessels. The divers reported that the helo came within 100 yards of
them and kept on going. What saved their collective bacon, if not their
weight belts, was waving a large lime green fin that the Park Dept boat
finally spotted. Dave Castor, on the Sand Dollar, is the hero of this story.
It was getting on to evening when they were picked up, somewhat sore from
being beat upon by their cylinders and BCs. Mirrors, floats, flares, etc.,
would have seen a much quicker end to the game. And, no, they didn't have to
pay for the rescue. Wonder what it cost the taxpayers though.
Have we come down to "surface signaling devices = social responsibility"?
Perhaps! The loved ones of the missing would probably agree to that concept.
Regards,
Dennis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Karen & Dennis Withner
Washington Divers Inc. 903 N. State St Bellingham WA 98225-5009
Ph 360-676-8029 Fx 360-647-5028 E-dn...@nas.com
"Diving Educators and Outfitters Serving the Great Northwest Since 1973"
She~Travel agent since 87', Open Water Diver since 86'
He~SSI IT #123,ex inst:NAUI,YMCA,PADI #4112,Charter Capt. ret., Diving
since 68'
~ Learn To Fly In The Liquid Sky ~
Carl Heinzl
This dive was a charlie foxtrot from the word go. Here we have the
pinnacle of what is wrong with the "technical" instroketors.
First, NO ONE in their right mind would take a set of double steel tanks
along with two 72 steel stage bottles (this is what they were using) on
a dive and use a friggin WETsuit on top of it all. You use AL80's for
stage and deco bottles with the lone exception being a lp steel for the
O2 (because unless you can boost the O2 pressure you normally only get
it in big tanks around 2200 psi). The reason you use AL80s is because
they're not so damn negative. The reason you use a drysuit is in case
you have a problem with your wings. This guy did everything wrong and
was taught everything wrong by a bunch of third rate strokes.
Second, when diving mix you don't take a SINGLE bottle of mix and 3 more
bottles of deco gas. The big problem with this situation is if you have
a problem with your mix at depth you're stuck breathing a hyperoxic gas
which will lead to convulsions real quick. Guess what, this
accident will come under the heading of "violated multiple standards".
#1) he used the wrong tanks
#2) he used the wrong amounts of gases
#3) he used the wrong exposure suit (i.e. no redundant bouyancy)
#4) he obviously violated rule #1
Third, the RIDICULOUS deco times he quoted (was around 2 hours) is crazy
for a 15 minute bottom time at 255. Take a look at the IANTD mix book.
The total deco time for a 260' dive with 15 min bt is 53 min. If you
use 250'/15min it's 48min. Now to save someones life I wouldn't
hesistate to shave some time off of that, probably at least 10 min and
breathe O2 on the surface as a precaution. So he could have got out of
the water in more like 35 minutes.
>They descended at about 1:30 p.m., each with four tanks, one= of which
>contained Trimix, a mixture of air and helium containing less nitrogen
>than air, allowing divers to mitigate the effects of narcosis, which can
>impair a diver's judgment. The mix is necessary below 130 feet, and some
>people use it at 100 feet.
Gee, nice how they forgot to mention one of the main driving forces
behind mix and that is the O2 tox.
>About 4 p.m., Elkins began having trouble with his inflatable vest, an
>air bladder that fills with air to help divers surface, DeKoning
>said. As he was pulled upwards, he realized he had just enough air to
>get back to the surface, DeKoning said. "When you do that kind of
These people must have been hoovers and had no business even attempting
a dive like this. There is NO justification for this happening, NONE.
I've done 20-25 minute dives in the 260' range and came back with plenty
of gas in my back cylinders, there's just NO reason for using that much
gas.
>diving, there is not much of a margin for error," Mahoney said. "If you
>have equipment failure, you can't just surface or you'll die or be
>paralyzed for life. It takes time."
These guys need to run to the 7/11 store and buy a clue, but
unfortunately, 3 of them can't.
What was even more laughable was that comment about him "writing the
book about deep sea diving" - yea right. Anyone who believe this,
I have a bridge for you to buy.
-Carl-
Theresa Sabrina Hill
Dye pack, signal mirror, strobe, flares, VHF radio: what will keep working
after it has spent time from 130 feet down on up?
The mirror for sure. Will the radio's protective bag ($40.00 item) stop
water from entering at depth? Will pressure cause the dye pack to
go active? Even if it doesn't spread, will the usefulness be eliminated?
How deep can you go with flares?
I always loved the strobe on my flight deck vest, considered buying one
for my own. But will that continue to work after it has been down
under 4-5 ATM's?
I'm not critisizing, but asking.
-Traci
Reef Fish (Large Nassau Grouper)
At 02:18 PM 1/15/98 -0500, Reef Fish Bob wrote:
>At 04:15 AM 1/15/98 -0600, Traci wrote:
>>Dye pack, signal mirror, strobe, flares, VHF radio: what will keep working
>>after it has spent time from 130 feet down on up?
>
>
>
>>The mirror for sure. Will the radio's protective bag ($40.00 item) stop
>>water from entering at depth? Will pressure cause the dye pack to
>>go active? Even if it doesn't spread, will the usefulness be eliminated?
>>How deep can you go with flares?
>>
>>I always loved the strobe on my flight deck vest, considered buying one
>>for my own. But will that continue to work after it has been down
>>under 4-5 ATM's?
>
>
At which point Feesh hit some key accidentally, and the reply was
prematurely sent. ;) So, let me continue from there ...
qu ... quite well, i.e., it was a training dive in which instructor
and students alike don't seem to know what they were doing. There
were so many errors and poor judgments on their part that it was
accident waiting to happen, and it did.
As for your equipments: mirrors, flares, spare submarines, etc.,
it may be perfectly reason if you are speaking of your BOAT at sea
by itself. Otherwise, as far as DIVING goes (under normal
circumstances of recreational dives), it appears to be an overkill.
A GROSS overkill.
IMHO, if the diving condition requires such equipments on your part,
then either (a) you shouldn't be diving, or (b) you should have a
better tender/chaser to pick you up downcurrent, when you surface.
That having said, let me just comment briefly on two PRACTICAL and
ADEQUATE items (but nothing elaborate or bulky) to carry in diving
situation in which you may be carried/blown away by currents -- as
in the Barracuda or the Maracaibo or the Eastside of Cozumel, or
the islands of Cocos Island, or Peleliu and Blue Corner in Palau,
all of which I have been fortunate enough to have dived, AND have
been blown away: DIVE ALERT (whistle) and SAFETY SAUSAGE.
BTW, those two are REQUIRED items to dive on the Sun Dancer II in
Palau. With two 400 hp jet-propelled safety boats looking out
for dives who may surface half a mile away or more, I felt perfectly
safe merely equipped with those two items, which is one more than
I normally carry diving in Cozumel.
DIVE ALERT. Point to ponder:
1. It is LOUD -- don't point it at anyone close or you may rupture
that person's eardrum.
2. It requires certain minimum pressure in the tank for it to work.
So, it may not work when you need it the most.
3. In PERFECTLY STILL air, the sound doesn't travel very far.
If the wind is blowing the wrong direction, it may be useless
in alerting your intended boat.
4. It works best when you have half a dozen boat in your vicinity
(as is often the case in Cozumel) and you just want to get the
attention of YOUR boat captain when he hears your whistle.
The closest I came to drifting away to Cuba was on a Maracaibo dive
in which the DM was waving his fin on top of his speargun before I
surfaced to look while it took the boat so long to come. And when
I did look, the boat was nowhere in sight, and my Dive Alert blew
it's heart out and got only the attention of another boat that
happend to be close enough which in turn radioed our boat captain
to come our way!
DON'T count on a Dive Alert. It's nice to have only for short
distance attention; AND when the wind direction is right; AND
you have enough air pressure in your tank to blow it.
SAFETY SAUSAGE. SIZE is everything! :-) Ah well, color too.
The weenies you can buy in most dive shops and dive catalogs
measure 3.5 feet when fully inflated. With as LITTLE as a 3-4
ft swell on the surface, the only attention that sausage will get
is YOURS, especially if the boat you try to signal is at a moderate.
Orange is the usual color. But some (on the SUN DANCER) come in
Yellow. The ones used there are 6 ft or 7 ft when fully inflated.
The Peter Hughes' Fleet first told me that I could buy one on the
boat (if I so desire; or rent one). I thought the quoted price of
$40 for a 7' sausage was reasonable. Then when we were on the boat,
we learned that EVERYONE was loaned (no rental charge) a sausage to
use, but there wasn't any for sale! But we found a 6 ft one but
twice as big (in circumference) in Yap for $30, and so we bought one.
After we came home, I called the Hughes' Office and got the email
address of the Trident company that carries the sausages used by
the Sun Dancer. I wrote to enquire over a week ago, but never got
a reply. Meanwhile, I saw that sausage in our LOCAL DIVE STORE --
to my big surprise -- a "Marine Rescue Tube" sausage that measures
NINE FEET and a half, for $12 (yup, twelve dollars).
Now we have a 9.5-ft sausage backed up by a big 6-ft sausage, and
further backed up by a 3.5 ft sausage. :-) That should take
care of ALL current dives I'll ever do. Heck, the currents in
which I've dived already could purge my reg or blow my mask off
with ease. They don't come any stronger than that!
Now if you choose to dive with a boat with no backup motor, no
radio, no chase boat, as the 5 Japanese who died diving in Palau
did, THEN it would be advisable to arm yourself to the teeth with
survival equipments IF you still choose to dive with them.
My choice is to take a WELL-EQUIPPED boat with GOOD SUPPORT. Then
a LONG sausage should more than suffice; and a Dive Alert will
serve as a backup or substitute for short-distance attention-getter.
>>I'm not critisizing, but asking.
NOW I am finished. :-)
-- Bob.
Reef Fish (Large Nassau Grouper)
At 04:15 AM 1/15/98 -0600, Traci wrote:
>Dye pack, signal mirror, strobe, flares, VHF radio: what will keep working
>after it has spent time from 130 feet down on up?
Are we waging a Gulf War against Sadam again? ;-)
>The mirror for sure. Will the radio's protective bag ($40.00 item) stop
>water from entering at depth? Will pressure cause the dye pack to
>go active? Even if it doesn't spread, will the usefulness be eliminated?
>How deep can you go with flares?
>
>I always loved the strobe on my flight deck vest, considered buying one
>for my own. But will that continue to work after it has been down
>under 4-5 ATM's?
Carl has already analyzed the case of the missing divers qu
>
>I'm not critisizing, but asking.
>
>-Traci
>
>
Ed Graves
Reef Fish Bob wrote:
major snippage of interesting post
>to my big surprise -- a "Marine Rescue Tube" sausage that measures
>NINE FEET and a half, for $12 (yup, twelve dollars).
Senor Feeesh,
Could you Please give us the company name of your Super-Sized Safety Sausage?
TIA,
Ed
Ed Graves
Everett, Washington USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~egraves/
The only substitute for good manners is fast reflexes.
Reef Fish (Large Nassau Grouper)
At 01:18 PM 1/15/98 -0800, Ed Graves wrote:
>
>>to my big surprise -- a "Marine Rescue Tube" sausage that measures
>>NINE FEET and a half, for $12 (yup, twelve dollars).
>
>
>Could you Please give us the company name of your Super-Sized Safety Sausage?
Ed, as I said in my posting, Peter Hughes Fleet Office told me THEIR
sausages were supplied by Trident (in CA). Call them at 1-800-9DANCER
for further info.
My local shop said the NINE ft sausage (I am sure that's NOT the one
I used in Palau) was made by Trident also. BUT the package says:
Manufactured by SAFETY SAUSAGES N.Z. LTD
P.O.Box 5216, Dunedin, New Zealand.
And direct U.S. inquires to D. & N. PRODUCTS
98-801B Iho Place
Aiea, Hawaii 96701.
So, I dunno what's the real scoop. If all fails, I can give you
the address or phone number of the store from which I bought mine.
-- Bob.
Dennis & Karen Withner
Traci:
>Dye pack, signal mirror, strobe, flares, VHF radio: what will keep working
>after it has spent time from 130 feet down on up?
"Skyblazer" SCUBA flares, according to national sales mgr, are rated to
130fsw for 20 dives. These should not be confused with the marine
flares they make that look about the same, are water resistant, but not
designed to take the pressure of depth.
It should be noted that shooting *red* flares is a internationally
recognized *distress* signal, and should not be done unless U are
indeed in distress or feel U are about to be so. Flare sightings
reported to the Coast Guard, unless explained or resolved by radio
or phone contact will usually result in the launching of helos and
boats, and stern talkings too if not fines if you are found to be
a un distressed launcher. White flares are appropriate for practice
or casual signaling.
Regards,
Dennis
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Washington Divers Inc - Total Travel
903 N State St - Bellingham WA 98225-5009
phone/360-676-8029 fax/360-647-5028 e/den...@nas.com
owners/Dennis Withner-SSI IT#123 + Karen Withner-Travel Agent
"Diving educators and outfitters, serving the great Northwest since 1973"
"Learn to fly in the liquid sky"
Nick Simicich
At 10:01 AM 1/15/98 -0200, kuty wrote:
> Smith, a military diver during the Vietnam War and a pioneer of deep
>ocean diving, has logged more than 5,000 dives.
> "These guys are a unique handful in Florida," said John Mahoney,
captain
>of the Sea Inn dive boat. "Andre pretty much wrote the book on (deep sea
>diving)."
I took a course from this guy. Switched jobs, and got too busy, at the
end, to do the dives.
He had a high emphasis on safety, as would be expected.
--
That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.
That which does kill us makes us smell stronger, after a few days, anyway.
Nick Simicich mailto:n...@scifi.squawk.com or (last choice)
mailto:n...@us.ibm.com
http://scifi.squawk.com/njs.html -- Stop by and Light Up The World!
Nick Simicich
At 01:31 AM 1/15/98 -0800, you wrote:
>in the Galapagos and of course, Cozumel. There have also been several tragic
>losses in Micronesia and, enforced by the current events in Florida, it is
>readily apparent that divers operating in open ocean conditions NEED to
>carry appropriate signaling devices.
>
>A LOUD whistle and vertical surface marker should be the minimum, with the
>addition of a signal mirror and floating surface marker highly recommended.
>Other useful possibilities could be; flares,strobe,dye marker,inferred
>marker, ELT,marine radio,cell phone etc, depending on how sure a person
>wants to be of being found, given the worst possibilities.
Um, there are waterproof Emergency Locator radio Beacons, like the Litton
Micro B. I would suspect that this would be the weapon of choice in
Florida. The currents here are seriously a problem.
Simon L Hartley
My, my... ...I pop in to the office to do some photocopying, decided to
check my email and have to wait over an hour for it to download. Guess who
forgot to unsubscribe from SCUBA-L before going away.
I hope nobody will mind me harking back to an old topic but I have an
interest in signalling devices for reasons I will outline later for anyone
who wishes to read on that far. But first my question.
On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Dennis & Karen Withner <den...@NAS.COM> wrote;
>"Skyblazer" SCUBA flares, according to national sales mgr, are rated to
> 130fsw for 20 dives. These should not be confused with the marine
Can anyone tell me if these flares ONLY last for 20 dives (and are then
useless) or if they last for a given period regardless of how many dives
you do? Also is there a way of extending their life (enclosing them in a
waterproof container?)?
Now to my reasons for asking. I have recently taken up kayak diving and
have so far managed to lose the kayak completely on one occasion (well OK I
didn't loose it as such (well for a few minutes) but I had a bloody long
hard swim to catch it as it was blown away by the prevailing winds after
coming loose from it's mooring) and lost the paddle on another occasion
(again some friendly fishermen and spear fishers returned it before I had
to contemplate towing the kayak back to shore). I carry conventional
flares in the kayak but in the event of being seperated from the kayak it
would be nice to have some means of signalling. I carry a torch (more for
looking in crevices than anything else), large safety sausage, strobe,
signal mirror and cylume stick (backup for strobe/torch) all the time in my
bc but a flare is IMO a good way of initiating a search. The rest are fine
if someone already knows to look for you. Trouble is a set of flares that
only last for 20 or so dives is probably of little use to me (I logged
nearly 130 dives last year, so they wouldn't last too long).
As an aside regarding The Feeesh's comments on the length of safety
sausages. Definately longer is better. When I was looking for my large,
brightly coloured (yellow, deliberately chosen) kayak the first thing I saw
in the sizable chop and swell was the dive flag (which was over a metre and
a half taller than the kayak and far less brightly coloured). This is why
I still carry a safety sausage despite also having a brightly coloured lift
bag in by BC, the later does not replace the former as a signalling device
(much as I'd like to free up the space).
I'm still on holidays so might not reply for a while but would appreciate
any comments from folks familiar with the flares I refer to.
Cheers,
Simon
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School of Resource Science and Management o oo _____ o oo
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P.O. Box 157 ===(S) o
Lismore NSW, Australia 2480
Ph: (066) 203 251 or (61 66) 203 251
Fax:(066) 212 669 E-mail: shar...@scu.edu.au
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