Storyteller v Writer
Jean Mason
but it isn't easy to pin down. But I'll give it a go (with examples)
Nora Roberts is a storyteller. If you were to analyze her "craft," you
might well conclude that she is at best an "average" writer. I have a
writer friend who almost can't read Roberts because of all the "craft"
errors that *she* notices. I, on the other hand, get so caught up in
the story that I simply don't notice the headhopping, for example.
Kinsale and Cuevas are "writers." This is not to say that they don't
tell good stories. But it is quite clear to me that they are brilliant
wordsmiths, who create memorable sentences and evocative descriptions.
They literally "work" at words. (Which is probably why they don't
publish as frequently as their fans and publishers would like.)
These are the most obvious examples to me, but there are undoubtedly
others. Wouldn't it be fun to create a list. Great authors who are
storytellers and great authors who are writers.
What examples can you all think of, I having chosen the easiest ones.
Jean
Grall
>So, folks: What is a storyteller? What is a writer? Is there a
>difference? If so, what is the difference? How is it manifested? etc and
>so forth.
I think a storyteller sucks you in and keeps you there. A writer gets all
the grammar right, but the story just isn't....there. Does that explain it?
Marilyn Grall http://eclectics.com/marilyngrall gr...@telepath.com
IN SEARCH OF AMANDA, TAMING THE LION
CONQUEST OF THE HEART coming in July, 1999
Available at: http://newconceptspublishing.com
Grall
>Kinsale and Cuevas are "writers." This is not to say that they don't
>tell good stories. But it is quite clear to me that they are brilliant
>wordsmiths, who create memorable sentences and evocative descriptions.
>They literally "work" at words. (Which is probably why they don't
>publish as frequently as their fans and publishers would like.)
>
>These are the most obvious examples to me, but there are undoubtedly
>others. Wouldn't it be fun to create a list. Great authors who are
>storytellers and great authors who are writers.
Jean said it much better than me. I was thinking of one as good and the
other bad, when of course, that's not always the case. Perhaps it's better
to say that a good storyteller can hold you longer than someone who is good
with words and grammar rules but just doesn't get the story across. To me,
it all comes down to characters. If I love the characters, I love the book.
Marilyn Grall ****** UPDATED http://eclectics.com/marilyngrall ******
gr...@telepath.com NCP: http://newconceptspublishing.com
CONQUEST OF THE HEART, coming in July, 1999
...Could love blossom from the ashes of war?
A. Marina Fournier
>So, folks: What is a storyteller? What is a writer? Is there a
>difference? If so, what is the difference? How is it manifested? etc and
>so forth.
>From: Zahara Medina <zah...@washuu.swb.de>
>Storyteller tells a story, no matter how. A spoken tale, a comic, a
>painting, an opera, a book...
>A Writer plays with words to tell a story, and quite some times the "play"
>part is much bigger than the story part. :)
>From: Grall <gr...@telepath.com>
>I think a storyteller sucks you in and keeps you there. A writer gets all
>the grammar right, but the story just isn't....there. Does that explain it?
Both Zahara and Marilyn speak to MY understanding of the difference. If a
writer is in tune, the mere words draw you in--the usage of them, the
rhythm perhaps, or the images conjured. Story might be weak, but O the use
of language!
If a storyteller is in tune, there are location, plot, or character hooks
to draw you in, and make you want to know what happens next. Language might
be simple, but O the unfolding of events and developments!
If a writer or a storyteller is exceptionally gifted, you get a double
whammy you *can't* slice with a critical athame!
Marina
--
A. Marina Fournier, The (Re)Sourceress
<Aria...@Sasquatch.com> Santa Cruz CA
Bernadette Cronk
that almost takes you to the top of a new mountain...You know there is an
illumination *just there* if you can take it a wee bit further...<grin>
Have you ever had that happen?
So, I am 'struggling' with it. Need some input. Lots of input. And I
doubt there is a right answer to this, so any contributions are welcome.
The poster made a distinction between "storytellers" and "writers".
For her, there is a difference. It occurs to me that maybe she is on to
something. Maybe this might explain why I am prepared to pay big dollars
for some works and wouldn't turn tuppence for others....
I have a feeling if I fully understood this distinction it might help
explain that...Possibly.
So, folks: What is a storyteller? What is a writer? Is there a
difference? If so, what is the difference? How is it manifested? etc and
so forth.
What do YOU think?
Bernadette -- very interested in this!
Zahara Medina
painting, an opera, a book...
A Writer plays with words to tell a story, and quite some times the "play"
part is much bigger than the story part. :)
But that's just IMHO, of course ^^
Zahara Medina
zah...@washuu.swb.de
http://www.swb.de/~zahara/
Bernadette Cronk
> painting, an opera, a book...
>
> A Writer plays with words to tell a story, and quite some times the "play"
> part is much bigger than the story part. :)
>
>
perhaps?
Who do you think, for example, in rom gen is essentially a storyteller? Who
essentially a writer?
And what is important to you about either one? And do you hold a preference
for one over the other?
And do they always stay in their own camps (ie: does a storyteller always
stay a storyteller; does a writer always stay a writer?)
And, and, and....but enough already...:)
Bernadette [See! One question with me always starts a fountain
of others! Always! It is *such* a nuisance! :)]
B.B. Medos
> The poster made a distinction between "storytellers" and "writers".
> difference? If so, what is the difference? How is it manifested?
> etc and so forth.
> What do YOU think?
Oh, now this one is good. I usually lurk on this list and only
occasionally post something, but this one I cannot resist. Primarily
because I think, no, I know that there is a big difference between
the two things. How to explain why I believe that, however, is tough.
To say the least. I know what makes a good storyteller and it's
certainly not the same thing as being a good writer, but how to
distinguish between the two? Heck if I know.
I do know this, though, that when I think storyteller, one very good
example comes to mind - a history professor at our local community
college. He's probably retired now from full-time teaching (if
someone like him ever actually retires from anything), but he's also
the local historian for our county and well-known throughout the
region for his storytelling in general but particularly in relation
to American history. He can take any era of this country's history
and simply by telling countless tales, usually local folktales, suck
just about anyone in his class into learning something about the time
period. And yes, people have always lined up for his classes because
they know that they will never be bored.
To me, storytelling will always be linked to the oral tradition of
passing information from one generation to the next, something we've
lost to a great extent in our society. Storytelling isn't about the
craft of weaving a plot around characters and settings with words and
words alone. It's about the relationship between the person telling
the story and their audience. That isn't about words. It's about
images. Memorable images. Storytelling is about the ability to plant
images in the heads of the audience that will not leave them anytime
soon - whether in the oral or written tradition. It's about making
the story told so memorable that the individual immediately wants to
go out and repeat it to someone else. Which is exactly what we do
when we exclaim "I just read this great book about . . . "
In that context, grammar and all the other things that make for what
we consider good writing are irrelevant to good storytelling because
they are not part of what makes the story itself repeatable over and
over again. They are the polish given to a group of connected images
by an expert at the craft of writing to preserve them for all time.
Hopefully. There are plenty of well-written books out there that are
easily forgettable. There are also plenty of poorly written books
that have unforgettable stories in them that imprint themselves on
our brains and never fade. For me, the test of whether something is a
good story or not is a test of time - whether in the final analysis
it gets told over and over again in some form or other. Even if it's
just in a recommendation of a favorite book to a friend. It's that
repeated sharing of the unforgettable images left in our heads that
harkens back to the oral storytelling tradition of passing things
down from generation to generation so that they will be remembered.
Always.
Beverly :-)
Bernadette Cronk
I thought I was just one long fingernail from reaching the
top of that mountain, thinking I just needed a tiny elegant
little insight, one small catalyst, for that last inch of that
climb...
Now I am back in pieces down the bottom of what happens to
be a very jagged cliff, and that fingernail is in shreds. Oy!
You should see my inbox. Added confusion there as it has
so many private views that complicate the public posts as well...
Do you know we, on this list, do not appear to hold a
common definition or agreement as to what makes a
'storyteller'? Let alone whether a 'writer' is, or isn't, in any way
different from a storyteller? In theory. In words. We cannot
seem to use similar words to communicate this?
And yet people seem to *easily* identify writers in both
camps. In examples. In practice. ??
[So intriguing! :)]
There has been *immediate and frequent agreement and
recognition*, for example, that Nora Roberts (and this was
in so many posts) is without any doubt (at least so far in
this discussion) a 'storyteller'. Yet Kinsale and Ivory
(and always these two are first choice: why?) are immediately comprehended
as 'writers'.
Do you not find that fascinating?
And what in all hell does it mean? :)
Is it just because the latter two choose beautiful words --
which some people posted? Are we to believe that that is
the fundamental 'big truth' that differentiates a writer from a
storyteller - as some people believe?
??
Some ideas people have posted I have loved. Jo's notion,
for example, that writing is a part of it all and that there is a
continuum, or spectrum, from storytelling to poetry. And that somewhere
along that continuum we could place most
storytelling writers is *very* appealing.
Similar to Karyn's notion of storytelling and writing
being at its best at the point of convergence. A bit like the
intersection of two Venn diagrams: one circle being storytelling;
another being writing, but push them together and where they
overlap is the best of both worlds. That notion, too, I like.
Patricia's proposition that maybe the difference is the difference between a
photograph and an oil painting is worth exploring further,
I think. It begs questions about whether there might be a difference in
process (ways of doing: writing and storytelling )
and in product (the finished work) between storytelling and writing...
I wonder!
I loved Beverly's belief that storytelling is about creating
memorable images that stick and that in its written form
writing is the polish that helps *imprint* these memorable
images.
So, what do we know?
As I said people appear to instinctively *know* and can
categorise some very well known writers as either
'storytellers' or 'writers' with apparent ease.
Without having a clear or a common notion of what a
storyteller or a writer is.
Now, how very confusing is that to anyone else but me?
:)
Bernadette
Karen E. Harbaugh
Truth is, I haven't thought very much about the two, or whether they are
truly opposites, so the best I can do is mull about it.
I don't know whether I'm toward one end of the scale (if there is such a
scale) or the other. I enjoy words, but I also enjoy story. But I do
know, while I was growing up, that my favorite teachers were the ones who
could teach in such a way that it was like a story, or could show me with
concrete examples. And when I, in turn, teach others, I try to include
examples, as I was taught when I learned technical writing, and also the
idea of, always remember your audience, know who they are, and write _to_
them.
I think there must be a connection to the reader in good storytelling.
But when I think about the good storytellers I've heard, there are
always many examples of good _writing_ in their telling, too. For
example, good oral storytellers always have a certain rhythm in their
speech, whether they're conscious of it or not. They use onomatopeia,
metaphors, and similes. These things usually bring vivid concrete images
to people's minds, and so make the story more memorable.
OTOH, description doesn't do it alone. There has to be a basic story
there that's compelling.
I dunno....I'm thinking maybe storytelling is the bones, the structure of
the story. The characterization is the muscles and writing is the flesh.
You want a strong structure, enough so that it can support and hold
together what's layered on top. Without it, the story's weak, flabby,
too full of fat. But you can't do with structure alone; you want strong
characters and strong writing to flesh it out and make it real.
I think some writers are good at structure, and keep their writing lean.
For many people, that works just fine, because they want something lean
and quick--bare bones, get to the action. I think a writer like Tom
Clancy is like that. Some authors, like Laura Kinsale, are better at
writing, so much so that you can be dazzled by the lushness and may just
miss the brittle bones underneath. As much as I love her writing, I must
admit, sometimes her structure is not as solid as it could be. When she
has both, that's when her books are powerful. Jo Beverley is good at
characterization--who isn't waiting for Rothgar?<g> and tends to write
lean, or maybe middling-lean, so you get memorable characters and a
spanking pace.
Kinda interesting how it all works like that. Characterization,
structure, and writing. Or I should say, voice.
Karen Harbaugh (kehar...@juno.com)
May 1999: MISS CARLYLE'S CURRICLE, Signet Regency