25 years ago today at Amtrak

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CRAIG SANDERS (216) 397-4356

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Nov 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/13/96
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Twenty-five years ago today (Nov. 14, 1971) the fledgling National
Railroad Passenger Corp. issued the first timetable it could call its own. That
TT featured on the cover the Amtrak pointless arrow logo, a drawing of a
two passenger car trucks and a drawing of the front of a locomotive with the
Amtrak logo on it.

Amtrak had issued TTs on May 1 and July 12th, both were merely using
existing railroad materials. The Nov. 14th TT was Amtrak designed.

The timetable had a combination of traditional railroad-style
timetables and airline-style "quick reference" schedules.

The first press run of the TT had some glaring errors. Detroit was
spelled Detriot in the quick reference schedules. The schedule for the Empire
Builder placed Fargo, N.D. in Indiana. The Silver Star was shown as
operating northward from New York's Grand Central Station to Albany. And the TT
failed to show the Broadway Limited's Washington section.

But perhaps most notable was the fact that this TT carried Amtrak's
first numbering scheme. Here are the numbers of Amtrak trains effective
11-14-71. Note that some of these names and numbers continue today.

1/2 Sunset Limited New Orleans-Los Angeles
3/4 Super Chief/El Capitan Chicago-Los Angeles
5/6 City of San Francisco Chicago-Oakland (tri-weekly)
Denver Zephyr Chicago-Denver (daily)
7/8 Empire Builder Chicago-Seattle
9/10 North Coast Hiawatha Chicago-Spokane (Seattle)
(combined with 7/8 Seattle-Spokane)
11-12/13-14 Coast Starlight/Daylight San Diego-Seattle (tri-weekly)
12/13 Coast Daylight San Diego-Oakland
15/16 Texas Chief Chicago-Houston

30/31 National Limited New York/Washington-Kansas City
(combined with 40/41 New York-Harrisburg;
Washington-Harrisburg)

40/41 Broadway Limited New York/Washington-Kansas City
42/43 Keystone New York-Pittsburgh

50 George Washington Chicago to Boston/Newport News
51 James Whitcomb Riley Newport News/Boston to Chicago
52/53 Floridian Chicago-Miami/St. Petersburg
58/59 Panama Limited Chicago-New Orleans

60/61 Lake Shore Chicago-New York

70/71 New York-Buffalo
72/73 " " "
74/75 " " "

81/82 Silver Star New York-Miami/St. Petersburg
83/84 Silver Meteor New York-Miami
85/87 Champion New York-St. Petersburg

100/101 Metroliner New York-Washington
102/103 " " " "
104/105 " " " "
106/107 " " " "
108/109 " " " "
110/111 " " " "
112/113 " " " "
114/115 " " " "
116/117 " " " "
118/119 " " " "
120 Metroliner (Morning Executive) " " "
123 " " " New Haven to Washington
124 Metroliner (Evening Executive Washington to New Haven
125 Metroliner New York to Washington
126 Metroliner (Evening Executive) Washington to New Haven
(Sunday only)
127 Metroliner New York to Philadelphia
(Saturday only)
130 Free State Washington to New York
131 Congressional New York to Washington
132 Nightcap Washington to New York
(Sunday only)
133 Free State New York to Washington
135 Nightcap New York to Washington
(Sunday only)

140 Bay State Washington to Boston
141 Connecticut Yankee Springfield to New York
142/143 Charter Oak Washington-Springfield
144 Connecticut Yankee Washington to Springfield
145 Bay State Boston to Washington

150/151 Yankee Clipper (turbo) New York-Boston

160/161 East Wind New York-Boston
162/163 Narragansett New York-Boston
165 Patriot Boston to New York

170 Bunker Hill Washington to Boston
171/172 Southern Crescent Washington and Boston
173/174 Colonial Washington-Boston
175 Senator Boston to Washington
176 Patriot Washington to Boston
177 Merchants Limited Boston to Washington
178 Senator Washington to Boston

180 Merchants Limited Philadelphia to Boston
181 Valley Forge Boston to Philadelphia
182 Philadelphia to New York

195/196 Mount Rainer Seattle-Portland
198/199 Puget Sound Seattle-Portland

200/201 New York-Philadelphia
202 Philadelphia to New York
204 " "
206/207 New York-Philadelphia
211/212 Philadelphia to New York
213 New York to Philadelphia
218/219 New York-Philadelphia
220/221 " "
223 New York to Philadelphia
225 " "
227 " "
231 " "
234/235 New York-Philadelphia
254 Philadelphia to New York
256 Philadelphia to New York
263 New York to Philadelphia
272 Philadelphia to New York
280 Philadelphia to New York
282 Philadelphia to New York
298 Philadelphia to New York

301 Prairie State Chicago to St. Louis
302/303 Abraham Lincoln Chicago-St. Louis
304 Prairie State St. Louis to Chicago
320 Prarie State Milwaukee to Chicago
(through to St. Louis)
321/322 Chicago-Milwaukee
323 Abraham Lincoln Chicago to Milwaukee
(through from St. Louis)
324/325 Chicago-Milwaukee
326 Abraham Lincoln Milwaukee-Chicago
(through to St. Louis)
329 Prairie State Chicago to Milwaukee
(through from St. Louis)

347/348 Illinois Zephyr Chicago-West Quincy

360/361 Wolverine Chicago-Detroit
362/363 St. Clair Chicago-Detroit

390 Illini Champaign to Chicago
(Friday only)
391/392 Shawnee Chicago-Carbondale
393 Illini Chicago to Champaign
(Friday only)
394/395 Campus Chicago-Champaign
(Friday/Sunday only)

400/401 Hartford-New Haven
402/403 Springfield-New Haven
404/405 Springfield-New Haven
406/407 Springfield-New Haven
408/409 Hartford-New Haven
410 New Haven to Springfield
(Friday/Saturday only)

600/601 Philadelphia-Harrisburg
602-603 " "
604/605 " "
606/607 " "
608/609 " "
610/611 " "
612/613 " "
614/615 " "
616/617 " "

640/641 West Virginian Washington-Parkersburg
642/643 " " " "
(Saturday/Sunday only)

680/681 New York-Albany/Rensselaer
682/683 " "
684/685 " "
686/687 " "

775/776 San Diegan Los Angeles-San Diego
777/778 " " " "

NOTE: Amtrak's 11-14-71 TT did not show train numbers for sections of trains,
i.e. the Washington section of the Broadway Limited/National Limited; the
Florida trains or the Newport News section of the James Whitcomb Riley/George
Washington.

craig sanders

Dave Gianna,

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Nov 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/14/96
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I'm confused about 30/31 and 40/41.

How did these trains run combined into Harrisburg then split? Isn't this
supposed to be Pittsburgh?
I always remembered the National Limited as going through Pittsburgh, thence
onto Indianapolis, then St. Louis and Kansas City. Did this change occur later?

In fact, I would expect the Washington sections of the National to operate
via the B&O route Wash - Pittsburgh, combining with the New York section
brought in on the BWAY. The combined National would then continue West. As
for the BWAY, would the Washington/New York sections combine at
Philadelphia, then continue onto Pittsburgh and Chicago?


>30/31 National Limited New York/Washington-Kansas City
> (combined with 40/41 New York-Harrisburg;
> Washington-Harrisburg)
>
>40/41 Broadway Limited New York/Washington-Kansas City

Wait a minute -- shouldn't this be New
York/Washington-Chicago?

Nevertheless I will print out the schedule and keep it for reference!

Thanks,


-- dAve

Tom Phillips

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Nov 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/14/96
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Dave,

Both the Broadway and the National ran the Wash DC sections East from
Harrisburg, down the Susquehanna River, to Perryville MD, then down the NEC
to Wash DC. I rode that section of track several times in the 70's. I used
to ride from Capital Beltway Train Station ( New Carrolton MD ) to
Pittsburgh every year or so to visit my grandmother. I also remember riding
the National Ltd from Capital Beltway to St.Louis for a vacation in Summer
'74. The DC section usually consisted of 1 or 2 coaches and a sleeper.

I remember riding the DC section of the Broadway once to Pittsburgh. It
was probably 1973, I was probably 9 or 10. We were on the Susquehanne
branch on a beautiful spring day. The train consisted of a coach and a
sleeper and was being hauled by a GG1. There was a stalled freight train on
the line ahead. Our train was stopped in a small village ( I believe it was
called Fishing Creek PA ). We were permitted to detrain while our GG1 went
ahead to move the stalled train into a siding. The passengers converged on
a country store. There weren't many passengers ( 20-30 ), but we bought all
the soda and most of the snacks in the store during our 2 hour delay. The
merchant was pleased. When we traveled to Pit, my dad tried to schedule our
trek around the Horseshoe curve in daylight. This delay caused us to arrive
in Altoona after dark. My dad was ticked. I was probably asleep.

There was a connector track built in the late 70's or early 80's that
permitted Amtrak trains to come into Pittsburgh Penn station from the B&O
from Connellsville and Cumberland. Up to that time, the only Amtrak trains
going West from Cumberland went to Cinncinnati via Clarksburg and
Parkersburg WV. Prior to that connector being built, the Broadway and the
deposed National Ltd were combined/split in Harrisburg. After the connector
was built, The Broadway and the 'new' Capital Ltd were combined/split in
Pittsburgh, or these trains ran seperately from Chi to Pit.

I have vivid memories of riding a B&O train from Pittsburgh's P&LE
station to Silver Spring Maryland. We road that train in April '71, weeks
prior to Amtrak. Passenger trains did not return to this route (
Sandpatch, Cumberland, Harpers Ferry ), until Amtrak brought the Capital Ltd
to life in the early 80's.

I hope my memory has served me correctly, and I hope I have answered your
question.

-Tom Phillips
-Crofton MD

CRAIG SANDERS (216) 397-4356

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Nov 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/14/96
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From: "Dave Gianna," <da...@vh.net>


>I'm confused about 30/31 and 40/41.

>How did these trains run combined into Harrisburg then split? Isn't this
>supposed to be Pittsburgh?
>I always remembered the National Limited as going through Pittsburgh, thence
>onto Indianapolis, then St. Louis and Kansas City. Did this change occur
later?

Both trains originated/terminated in New York. They ran as a single
section to Philadelphia, traversed the Pittsburgh subway to get from the NE
corridor to the Philadelaphia-Pittsburgh mainline and then went to Harrisburg
where they separated. Likewise, the Washington sections ran combined from
Washington to Perrysville, Md. and thence on the Columbia and Port Deposit
branch toward Harrisburg. At Harrisburg, the Washington sections connected with
ther respective trains. Harrisburg was also where the trains changed power from
GGIs to E units.

At Pittsburgh, the National Limited followed the old Panhandle line
toward Columbus while the Broadway Limited followed the PRR Fort Wayne line
toward Canton, Fort Wayne and Chicago. The trains between Harrisburg and
Pittsburgh ran just a few minutes apart. The National Limited ran second
because it made more stops than the Broadway Limited.

The trains continued to run combined between Harrisburg and New York
until, I think, late April 1972 when they became separate sections. This move
coincided with discontinuing the Keystone (New York-Pittsburgh). It also
coincided with the separation of the Washington sections of the two trains into
separate trains, both still operating over the Port Deposit branch.

>In fact, I would expect the Washington sections of the National to operate
>via the B&O route Wash - Pittsburgh, combining with the New York section
>brought in on the BWAY. The combined National would then continue West. As
>for the BWAY, would the Washington/New York sections combine at
>Philadelphia, then continue onto Pittsburgh and Chicago?

That did not happen. The National Limited's Washington section never
operated in scheduled service over the B&O line, the route of the present day
Capitol Limited. The National Limited's Washington section was always
tri-weekly. On the days that it did not operate, passengers made an across the
platform connection at North Philadelphia. In April 1979, the National
Limited's Washington section began connecting with the New York section at
Philadelphia's 30th Street station.

The Brodway Limited's Washington and New York sections continued to
combine at Harrisburg for several years. I'll have to check my records on this.
I know the Washington section of the Broaday was re-routed via Philadelphia in
about 1977 or so, but it continued to combine at Harrisburg because the New
York section skipped 30th Street station, running non-stop from Trenton to
Harrisburg (stops between 30th Street and Harrisburg were handled by the
Washington section). In 1981, the Washington section of the Broadway was
re-routed over the B&O between Pittsburgh and Washington via the B&O. It was
also given the name "Capitol Limited" even though it continued to operate under
numbers 440/441 until it became a separate train between Chicago and Washington
and given numbers 29/30.

>>40/41 Broadway Limited New York/Washington-Kansas
City

> Wait a minute -- shouldn't this be New
>York/Washington-Chicago?

Oops! My mistake. It should be New York/Washington-CHICAGO.

craig sanders

Gary Kazin (PBMA)

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Nov 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/14/96
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Craig posted this part of the schedule without an important comment:

150/151 Yankee Clipper (turbo) New York-Boston

160/161 East Wind New York-Boston
162/163 Narragansett New York-Boston
165 Patriot Boston to New York

These trains served New York City at Grand Central Terminal, not Penn Station.
AMTRAK established something that Penn Central, and the PRR and NYC before
that, couldn't: a connection between the two New York stations. That way,
passengers who couldn't use through trains at least could connect by AMTRAK's
own bus, only available to through passengers. Later, of course the Boston
trains were all routed into Penn Station, and more recently the Empire
Connection routed Albany trains there as well and AMTRAK no longer directly
serves GCT (although you can be ticketed through to GCT with a connection
to Metro-North, changing at Yonkers or Croton-Harmon). As always, see your
travel agent or call AMTRAK for further information!! (:-)))

Dennis Clark

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Nov 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/14/96
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25 years later Tom Downs sits in a hearing telling congressmen that
he doesnt have the money to keep the trains in there district running
any longer. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place.

Dennis Clark
dcl...@tir.com
GBman on IRC Undernet #Trains
Grand Blanc, Mi.
GTW Photo Archive
http://www.tir.com/~dclark

Rich Copeland

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Nov 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/14/96
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After reading all these posts, I dug out that old timetable
and had a good shot of nostalgia. I am proud to own at least
one of every system Amtrak timetable that they ever produced.
The pile is now a foot high, and since they stopped producing
the "complete system" timetables (effective Spring '93) I am
now collecting one of each "big" timetable (N.E. and "National").

My all-time favorite cover is on the August 1980 issue--
a rather nicely-done photo of the Broadway sweeping around
a 4-tracked curve somewhere near Johnstown, Pa., led by two
F-40's. Everything in that picture is, or soon will be, history.
(Well, 2 of the tracks are still there, but it ain't the same!)
And it seems like 1980 was only yesterday.....
.

Roger Kirkpatrick

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Nov 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/14/96
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I know what you mean about the confusion over the turning of the century.
However, there is no actual problem. All decades start with one and end
with a zero. You can count to 10 to prove it. All centuries start with a
one and end with a zero. Same simple, absolute proof available. So the
first day of the new century will be 01/01/01! This is not a matter of
opinion, by the way, although the Bill of Rights allows you to have a
wrong one if you want. Roger


_______
S. Roger Kirkpatrick ______|_____| [ ] |___________
927 Colegate Drive | | | |
Marietta, OH 45750 | | [ ] [ ] | |
| | | |
Fax - 614-376-4777 |__|______________________|__|
Home - 614-374-6732 O<=>O O<=>O

On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, F. DABNEY wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Rich Copeland wrote:
>
> > And it seems like 1980 was only yesterday.....
>

> It isn't? Damn! I need to set my clock again.
>
> Actually, I'm still waiting for the Bicentennial. There were all those
> neat paint jobs I was gonna photograph and model. I wonder if anyone
> will celebrate the turn of the millenium with special paint jobs-
> assuming that anyone can agree which year that is...
>
> Fred D.
> Watching the action from BNSF MP 1112, El Paso sub
>

F. DABNEY

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Nov 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM11/14/96
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