DTL and CUA Compliance

Scott Harder

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Jan 4, 2010, 9:49:58 AM1/4/10

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Hi All,

I am writing an application using DTL; with a desire to keep things
CUA-compliant. Early on, I ran into CUA warnings regarding a keylist, as
explained below:

1) I am attempting to define a keylist, as follows, in one of my DTL
source members, but at conversion time (ISPDTLC), I get the ISPC150W
message below (please ignore the multiple END assignments; to be changed
later when those commands get built). What is not CUA compliant about
"CMD=END" and/or "KEY=F3" ???

<keyl name=traikeys>
<keyi key=F1 cmd=HELP fka=yes>Help
<keyi key=F2 cmd=SPLIT fka=yes>Split
<keyi key=F3 cmd=END fka=yes>End
<keyi key=F4 cmd=END fka=yes>Errors
<keyi key=F5 cmd=RFIND fka=yes>RFind
<keyi key=F6 cmd=RCHANGE fka=yes>RChange
<keyi key=F7 cmd=UP fka=yes>Up
<keyi key=F8 cmd=DOWN fka=yes>Down
<keyi key=F9 cmd=SWAP fka=yes>Swap
<keyi key=F10 cmd=END fka=yes>Bulk Edit
<keyi key=F11 cmd=END fka=yes>Rebuild
<keyi key=F12 cmd=CANCEL fka=yes>Cancel
</keyl>

ISPC150W: Warning. Line 36 of file "xxxxx.GML(TRANPIPD)". When
"CMD=END", "KEY=F3" on the KEYI tag does not conform to the CUA
Architecture
definition and will therefore not be CUA compliant.

Thanks!

Scott T. Harder
DTCC

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Pedro Vera

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Jan 4, 2010, 10:08:55 AM1/4/10

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PF3 should be defined as Exit.

Pedro Vera
IMS Tools

Pedro Vera

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Jan 4, 2010, 10:10:34 AM1/4/10

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PF3 should be defined as Exit.

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/F29BDG00/3.7.6?SHELF=CEESL002&DT=19921204095534

Pedro Vera
IMS Tools

Scott Harder

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Jan 4, 2010, 10:16:37 AM1/4/10

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Thanks, Pedro. Very much appreciated. I *always* thought PF3 was END.

Pedro Vera <pe...@US.IBM.COM>
Sent by: ISPF discussion list <ISP...@LISTSERV.ND.EDU>
01/04/2010 10:08 AM
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Re: DTL and CUA Compliance

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/F29BDG00/3.7.6?SHELF=CEESL002&DT=19921204095534

Pedro Vera
IMS Tools

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Pedro Vera

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Jan 4, 2010, 12:03:05 PM1/4/10

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> I *always* thought PF3 was END.

PF3 is END! Except when you want to be CUA compliant, and then it is
Exit.

You should be aware that Exit should behave as a 'Return' (end the entire
application). PF12 should behave as you expect END to work (end the
current panel and back up to previous panel). You may have to code your
application differently.

There may be some grumbling from users about keys working differently. But
overall I approve of and am an advocate for having a common look and feel
throughout the whole Z platform. The standard for this is CUA.

Pedro Vera
IMS Tools

Scott T. Harder

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Jan 5, 2010, 1:57:51 AM1/5/10

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott T. Harder" <scott....@embarqmail.com>
To: <ISP...@LISTSERV.ND.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 1:52 AM
Subject: Re: DTL and CUA Compliance

>I think I can count myself as one of those "disgruntled users". Way too
>many years of PF3 being END to change to PF12, which I have as CANCEL in my
>non-CUA brain.
>
> I guess we should be able to adapt to anything, and I should in this case
> also, but geeeez. Why did "CUA-compliant" have to turn out to be a
> different animal from what I was taught and have gotten used to over 28
> years????? And.... "disgruntled" is quite an understatement, as far as
> I'm concerned. End users will cause any effort to move to full CUA
> compliancy to stall in its tracks. That would be my guess, anyway.
> Frustration up; productivity down.
>
> Take care, all...
>
> Scott T. Harder

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pedro Vera" <pe...@US.IBM.COM>
> To: <ISP...@LISTSERV.ND.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 12:01 PM
> Subject: Re: DTL and CUA Compliance
>
>

Scott T. Harder

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Jan 5, 2010, 2:00:00 AM1/5/10

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Resending due to mail server setup issues. Sorry.

STH

Baldon, David

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Jan 5, 2010, 7:50:30 AM1/5/10

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I wish "we" would have switched to the CUA guidelines when they were initially published. If we had done that a lot of the issues with ISPF Dialogs would be moot by now. In some respects ISPF Dialogs remind me of the early days of Windows and Visual Basic. Just about anyone could write a Windows application but that didn't mean that everyone should have. Some of the early VB applications were some of the ugliest I've ever seen. It was primary due to developers with no sense of what is visually appealing to the masses creating User Interfaces. ISPF Dialogs are simple enough to create that most any one can do but not every one should. Or at least they should follow established guidelines and have someone with UI design experience help out. I remember one panel from years ago where the developer used every possible color including reverse video and thought it looked really nice. It was horrid but they liked it. Fortunately it was for their own use. :)

...David

Pedro Vera

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Jan 5, 2010, 11:56:15 AM1/5/10

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> have someone with UI design experience help out

Agree. I have someone with a masters degree in usability (or something
like that) review every character, color, and punctuation. Yikes! it is
sort of annoying, but required for what I do.

> ... turn out to be a different animal from what ... gotten used to over
28 years?

Agree and sympathize. But the CUA stuff with action bars an point and
shoot and shoot is not that much different than Windows interfaces and you
have to think about the next generation of users. And while I champion
CUA compliance, I believe there is room for incremental improvement. I
have never been on a project that was 100% compliance. But each project
sets the bar for upcoming projects.

As far as keys go, I suggest implementing PF12=Cancel and PF3=End as a
compromise.

Pedro Vera
IMS Tools

Pedro Vera

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Jan 5, 2010, 12:26:30 PM1/5/10

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In one project, I used two entries in the menu:

The first is for point and shoot.

The second is if the user types EDIT on the command line (notice the
'hide' parameter, which allows it to be supported, but not appear on the
screen).

Pedro Vera
IMS Tools

Baldon, David

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Jan 6, 2010, 9:48:26 AM1/6/10

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> I have someone with a masters degree in usability (or something like that) review every character, color, and punctuation.

The only stipulation I would make for a Usability expert helping with an ISPF Dialog interface is that they have more understanding of the platform than your typical UE. Most of today's UE's know nothing about "green screens", batch jobs, and other z/OS concepts. I remember once when the UE assigned to my project wanted the term script used instead of batch job. That just doesn't make sense (at least not right now) for a z/OS user.

...David

-----Original Message-----
From: ISPF discussion list [mailto:ISP...@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Pedro Vera
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 10:56 AM
To: ISP...@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: DTL and CUA Compliance