India-D Digest - Mar 22
Uma Ramamurthy
Today's Topics:
Economics/Development::
Information on Indian Banking Sector
ISO 9000 (Part 2/2)
Immigration::
Information about Visa
Question about change of visa status
Info. Wanted::
Custom duty on electronic items ??
Fixing this DevNagari True-Type Font and make it usable by all
Need Sanskrit meaning of "All-Pervading"
Miscellaneous::
A kiss!
How come we Indians are so serious, or are we ?
Reg. Bilwakesh's posting in IDD-[I] Mar21
Reg. Punjabi "kudi" girl it!
Support India-D and keep a good thing going
Politics::
Bande Mataram
Furthering the Pan-Islamic Agenda
Muslims and Washington Post article
Reg. Bite the hand that feeds you, & you are likely to get slapped!
Reg Prakash's posting about feeling of being an Indian
Vande Mataram (2 msgs)
Vande Matarm!! What about "Jana Gana Mana"?
War Toys and Hindu Gods!!!
Spiritual/Religion::
Reply to "Against All Religions" (Part 2/2)
Sports::
Rules of cricket
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Economics/Development
=====================
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 15:22:46 +0700 (GMT+0700)
From: Alok Jain <gta9...@emailhost.ait.ac.th>
Subject: Information on Indian Banking Sector
Hi netters,
I am presently working on a research on Indian Corporate Banking
Sector. I would be grateful if somebody could provide me with the
information on the following aspects:
(a) General Information and history of this sector
(b) Technological upgradation in both local and foreign banks
operating in India.
Any information in this regard would be helpful for my work.
Thanks a ton.
Puneet Gupta
(Please send your replies to <smm9...@rccvax.ait.ac.th>)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 1994 17:02:08 -0800 (PST)
From: vi...@aspectdv.com (Vinay Ambekar)
Subject: ISO 9000 (Part 2/2)
Before going in for the certification audit, aspirants hire numerous
consultants to help set the house in order. There are many agencies
who are not certifying authorities but have all the skills for it.
They conduct pre-audits and correct all mistakes. Hence, usually by
the time the certifying agency conducts the audit, most companies are
sure of success. Quite a few companies have failed their first audit.
Each audit is an expensive proposal as most of the certifying
agencies are Europe based and their prices are very high for Indian
companies.
The assessors are very knowledgable in the areas that they are
assessing. They themselves have to go through very stringent tests
and qualifying procedures. They have to conduct minimum 5 audits a
year to retain their certification. There is a hierarchy of assessors
( I have forgotten the levels but I think the lead assessor is the
highest) and the certifying organisation should have a proper mix of
these individuals. (Unlike financial audits where there is one CA and
a bunch of kids) I think it takes about 3 years and atleast 15 audits
before one can become a certifying auditor. These auditors cannot be
bought and hence anyone who has got the certification has got it by
meeting the requirements.
There are quarterly inspections and detailed annual inspections.
There will be a full fledged certification audit once in 3 years. A
company can loose its certification any time for non-conformance.
As ISO 9000 is not a product certification, mfrs. are not allowed to
mention it on their products. They can advertise to say that they
have attained ISO 9000 certification but cannot put on their products or
ads for their products that it has been manufactured according to
ISO 9000.
------------------------------
Immigration
===========
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 14:46:27 +0900 (JST)
From: Sanjay <292009%JPNIUJ0...@pucc.Princeton.EDU>
Subject: Information about Visa
I am an Indian national studying at a Japanese university. I was able to
go the US as an exchange student for one term and I was given a J-1 visa
valid for 5 years. Now, I am contemplating attending a Ph.D program at a
university in the US. I shall be obliged if some one on the network could
let me have answers to the following questions:
1. Can I do my Ph.D on a J-1 visa? If I just get the IAP-66 from the
US university, do I need to go the US embassy or not?
2. Should I try to convert my visa to F-1? If so, what is the procedure? What
are the disadvantages of a J-1 visa like financial aid and tax
implications?
If you are a bitnet user, please respond to
292...@jpniuj00.bitnet
If you are an internet user, please respond to
292009%jpniuj0...@pucc.princeton.edu
Thanks
Sanjay Dwivedi
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 15:16:54 -0800
From: ath...@math.washington.edu (Siva Athreya)
Subject: Question about change of visa status
hi,
a friend of mine whose email address is below would like to have info
on the following :
Is there a two year residency requirement for a change of visa status? In
which cases of status - change is this rule applied?
It would be really nice if any of you could give info on this .
Thank you
Please reply to aj...@u.washington.edu
------------------------------
Info. Wanted
============
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 17:43:05 -0500 (EST)
From: himanshu s gupta <hgu...@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Custom duty on electronic items ??
Could anyone please tell me how much custom duty is charged on electronic
goods taken to India ?? There must be some minimum dollar amount which an
individual is allowed to take without being charged any duty. How much is that?
I'm planning to take a VCR.
Please send me mail.
Thanks a lot,
Himanshu Gupta.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 00:49:24 -0600 (CST)
From: SUNNY KALARA <ST...@Jetson.UH.EDU>
Subject: Fixing this DevNagari True-Type Font and make it usable by all
Hi Folks...
After being flamed, or shall I say scorched on SCI, I thought I'd
bring my request here, hoping that more constructive responses from
kindler and gentler group will be forthcoming.
On one of the FTP site (Blackbox.hacc.washington.edu), there is
a Dev Nagari (Hindi) True Type Font for PC. Its a very nice font, well
proportioned, harmonious and accordant. Except that it is
deficient in one major respect. Some of the Matras (Badi and Chooti Ay) do
not align well. [ Badi and Chooti U work just fine]
If this problem can be fixed, the font will be a welcome addition
to our resources.
Using Compose utility from DEC, I have made the font little more
intuitive to use and Tom Ridgeway from Washington has made some additional
improvements. Morover I am still trying to get in touch with the author of
the font.
To fix this font compeletly, one probably needs an access to Fontographer
or Font Foundry or some similar package. If you can share some of your
expertise in helping us make this font usable, your contribution will be
very welcome indeed.
-Sunny Kalara
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 11:39:06 -0500 (EST)
From: vse...@sun.eng.wayne.edu (Venkateshkumar P Setty)
Subject: Need Sanskrit meaning of "All-Pervading"
Does anyone out there know the Sanskrit word for "All-Pervading";"omnipresent";
"immanent" ??? Is there a word in Skt. for "Tao" (from Taoist religion) ???
Please send all answers to: vse...@sun.eng.wayne.edu
Thank You...
------------------------------
Miscellaneous
=============
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 22:04:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Amir Tuteja" <mi...@access.digex.net>
Subject: A kiss!
Khushwant Singh in "Malice Towards One and All" - from the
Hindustan Times dated March 5, 1994.
My piece on Shabana Azmi honoring Nelsom Mandela with a kiss
has elicited the following eulogy in praise of the act from
Principal B.S. Bhatnagar of the Indian School at Al Ghubra
(Sultanate of Oman):
"A kiss is that you cannot give without taking, and cannot
take without giving. It is a contraction of the mouth due to an
enlargement of the heart. It is a course of procedure cunningly
devised for the mutual stoppage of speech for a moment when words
are superfluous. It is lip-service to love and the anatomical
juxtaposition of two orbicularis oris muscles in a state of
contraction.
A kiss is a peculiar proposition. Of no use to one, yet
absolute bliss to two. The small boy gets it for nothing, the young
man has to steal it, and the old man has to buy it. It is the
baby's right, the lover's privilege, and the hypocrite's mask. To
a young girl, faith; married woman, hope; old maid, charity. A kiss
can be a comma, quotation mark or an exclamation point. It is also
a pleasant reminder that two heads are better than one."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 11:06:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Kashi R Bilwakesh <bilw...@ccmail.ae.ge.com>
Subject: How come we Indians are so serious, or are we ?
IDD is unquestionably very interesting to read daily. But the seriousness, or
to put it differently, the lack of some levity makes it almost tiresome at
times. Are we Indians always this serious-- do we have only problems ? Come
on, folks-- lighten up. Let us see some Indian jokes-- not the kind you get in
the local newspapers here-- something more applicable to our ethnic background.
Of course, I concede that when I read, for example the
AnandaMath/VandeMataram controversy on a daily basis, I suddenly begin to
understand that the movie I saw when I was a kid had a serious story. Until
now, all I could associate with AnandaMath and Vande Mataram was the very ugly
face of Bharat Bhushan riding on a dirty horse in a dusty field, holding a
dirty flag and singing VandeMataram. Now, if one of you Bhushan fans takes
offense, let me tell you this-- Bharat Bhushan is uglier than me-- and boy' o'
boy, that is u-u-u-u-u-g-l-e-e-e-e.
I am not suggesting we eliminate all serious discussions. But let us add a
lighter touch to the discussions and let us have a section for Indian jokes. We
could use the jokes in our parties too. I liked the recent "EkDum Yar" story.
I am sure many of you can come up with more of that kind. Some of it can of
course touch raw nerves-- but we can try to be careful. Southies-- forget the
jokes about the North Indian English. That is not fair play. That is God's
fault. Northies-- forget the jokes about the southies eating sambar off of
their elbows-- not fair play either. Come on-- let us see some funny Indian
stories. Like the guy from Karnataka who was spelling his name to the AT&T
operator-- J as in Jayachamarajendrawadiyar, A as in Akshayalingeswara etc.
etc.
Uma- will you indulge us for a while and then let the boom down if we get out
of control ?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 08:30:39 -0600 (CST)
From: me...@zermatt-ra.SWMED.EDU (Shreefal Mehta)
Subject: Reg. Bilwakesh's posting in IDD-[I] Mar21
While i agree that Dr. Rao et al are doing a wonderful job and are putting
in a tremendous amount of voluntary work to keep this running, i do not
agree with the idea that you should limit the duistribution of this digest
to paying members.
i have had similar questions arise when we started up an Indo-American
organisation here at UT SOuthwestern and we decided to keep issuing our
newsletter to all on our mailing list regardless of their contributions
becase once we started limiting the number of members involved in activities
we knew that we would be headed towards an-ever decreasing number of
participants and subscribers. WE would soon have run out of the critical
mass needed to create a lively environment.
i feel that there will always be a need for digests and groups that foster
cultural awareness and discussion and if it is upto some interested
individuals to help support what they feel is positive for the rest,
then we (they) should do so.
i would suggest targeting those at commercial organisations, sending
messages to interested, enthusiastic and friends and colleagues who are
aware and conscious of the positive aspect of an open communication medium
and try and raise enough operating expenses.
Best wishes for this effort.
Shreefal Mehta
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 15:13:35 -0800 (PST)
From: rachana grover <gro...@research.ce.wsu.edu>
Subject: Reg. Punjabi "kudi" girl it!
Hi fellow-netters,
It was really interesting to read Amir Tuteja's article.
I am a Punjabi and have now and again come across situations
pretty similar.
For no rhyme or reason people seem biased against Punjabis.
Really the rule of generalization cannot be applied to human
beings. Anyway, contrary to the beliefs/prejudices that folks
have against the Punjabi community, they are the most
wonderful people!!!! You have to know them to realise that.
Punjabis are fun-loving, helpful and hard-working people.
Anyway, it was really encouraging to see something nice
about Punjabis on the India-D. It kinda boosted the morale.
Thanks Amir for sharing the article with all of us. Way to go!!!
Rachana
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 13:10:20 -0700
From: mcc...@sol.cira.colostate.edu (Nan McClurg)
Subject: Support India-D and keep a good thing going
>Hi,
>This is being posted for a relative of mine. She's a Tamilian Iyengar,....
>***************************************************************************
>Looking for a quiet, non-smoking, non-drinking, vegetarian room-mate to share
>an appartment close to Rutgers University Campuses.....
>***************************************************************************
>Hi Netters,
>To help my relative in India currently in Civil Eng. in IIT, I need the
>following information: ..........
>***************************************************************************
>Hello Friends,
>This is (Name of Netter) reporting from Oulu, Finland. I am at present
>doing my Master's in the areas of CAD/CAM and I request CAD/CAM guru's to
>guide me .......................
>***************************************************************************
>Hi Netters,
> I need information on Universities, Institutions and Organizations
>that invite people in the field of Naturopathy and Yoga's............
These and many such postings are regularly see on India-D, Looking for..
digest. I would like to urge people who have posted at least one (or more)
request for info. etc. to think of this as a personal advertisement that
could cost them at least $10. When you think of it that way, you will see
that $10 has bought you an advertisement on the electronic bulletin for an
indefinate time period. Some of you may have saved a couple of hundred dollars
on good airline tickets, some of you may have had your visa questions answered,
others may have found a long lost friend, yet others may have made some good
friends over the long discussions we have had. I certainly think that the
people I have met through this net are definately worth more than $10.
(Without this network, think of how much you would end up paying a psychiatrist
just to get things off your chest.)
Seriously friends, we can sit at our keyboards and day dream about what all
we could do to help our country and our fellow countrymen, but if we cannot
support ONE student who would perform the task of keeping this network alive,
then we should really examine our intentions and find out if we really are what
we claim we are. Skip eating out once and put your money where your ideas are.
If you really are unable to affort $10, I am sure that what ever you can afford
is better than nothing.
------------------------------
Politics
========
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 00:35:16 -0600 (CST)
From: JR...@ttacs1.ttu.edu (Jana M)
Subject: Bande Mataram
Dear Friends,
Yes, the Muslims has done some good things too. And we all appreciate that.
But let's not forget history. Let's not forget the lessons that past has taught
us. Because, if we do so - history will repeat itself.
Please do not consider this as an anti-Muslim post. I have several very good
Muslim friends, and I know at the common denominator, we are all the same. But
there is something wrong somewhere. History has shown us that, time and again.
As Ms. Majumdar has mentioned, we must indeed not forget the Tajmahal, or the
Mughlai cuisine. But, I am ready to trade in ten Tajmahals and settle for a
lifetime diet of boiled rice & vegetables in return of *all* the innocent lives
that has been lost in the name of religion.
Thinking of Ms. Majumdar, brings my mind to the recent discussions that is
going on regarding Bande-Mataram. Sri Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay was a great
person! Much GREATER than me and you, Ms. Majumdar and you Mr. Ken Bryant (and
all like minded people). Please don't be so quick in your judgement. Pause for
a moment, and think of the circumstances under which the book was written. And
keep in mind, that he fully sympathised with the poor Muslim farmer, who he saw
equally exploited as the common Hindu.
During a personal correspondence w/Ms Majumdar, I had asked her, where she is
from, to understand more as to where this racist definition is coming from and
whether Ananda Math is the only book of Bankim that she has read. But, she
chose not to answer. About Mr. Bryant, I can understand somewhat that, chances
are he doesn't know the complete picture. And if you just see one small part of
a slide under a microscope, most probably you will not get the whole picture.
Now, about singing of the song - only the first two paragraphs constitute the
National song, Bande-Mataram. There is absolutely nothing there, that can be
objectionable to anybody. And about being "forced" to sing it in schools, Mr.
Bryant - you may not know it, but the children in Indian schools are required
to follow many rules. There is a strict uniform code, hair style code, language
code and so on. Hence, what seems as force to you, is just a matter of rules.
Lastly, Mr. Anwar Mujeeb requested the song with it's translation to be posted
on the net, so that he (and others like him) can know what all these is about.
Much, to my dismay - I couldn't remember all the words, will someone who does,
please post it? If there is any problem w/translation please get in touch w/me.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 21:12:37 -0600 (CST)
From: Rajiv Varma <rva...@csunix.jsums.edu>
Subject: Furthering the Pan-Islamic Agenda
When I started writing articles on Pan-Islamism, I had made it clear that my
objective is to academically examine the root cause of Partition and its
consequences, and the whole question of Hindu-Muslim relationship. It was
unfortunate that Mr. Jose and others perceived it as an attack on Islam. I
am aware of that danger (obviously the two are linked). I would like to
reiterate that Political Pan-Islamism is a consequence of interpretation of
Islam by some of its adherents. Would an attack on Political Pan-Islamism
mean an attack on Islam, the religion itself?? This would have been clear to
someone with even an ameobic understanding of the context here. But anyway, ....
I am not writing this article as a response to those who are complaining about
these counter-Pan-Islamism articles, but give a possible explanation, why these
good-fellas are complaining. [I agree some of you are doing it unintentionally].
These honorable fellas have an agenda. The agenda is furthering Pan-Islamism
in Bharat. When you try to examine the factors which led to partition, obviously
you find that Pan-Islamists demanded territory in the name of Islam. Now if
you attack this political phenomenon, crocodile tears are shed claiming that
Islam is being attacked. Obviously, some of you fall for those tears. And some
of us become Hindu-fanatic, obscurantist, hate-monger, ... (Contact Sudipto for
a complete list). One favorite psec argument we have become used to is "forget
about the partition; Whatever has happened, has happened; Let's start fresh ..."
This is the most deceptive argument one can come across. What is the gaurantee
that same won't happen again? What, happen! It is happening now!! In Kashmir.
It will continue to happen, in Malda-Murshidabad (WB), in Malabar (Kerela), in
the future. Till the % of Momins is < 50, cries of secuuuularism will echo.
And whenever, that % gets incremented by 1, Islamic State will become a
birthright, and by hook or by crook, that % will eventually reach 99.9% (some
kafirs will still be kept, so as not to let go of the pleasure of persecuting
them, raping their women). Sir, It is there in Black and White in front of you.
Sir, digging up history has only one function -- to learn a lesson, nothing
else. So that we don't repeat past mistakes. Partition was a mistake.
Instead of solving problems, it has created ten times more. Sir, those leaders
who accepted partition did not anticipate that ethnic-cleansing of Hindus and
Sikhs will be done across the Radcliffe Line,instead they would live in a Muslim
Muslim majority but secular state,like the muslims in rest of India will live as
minority in a secular state. What happened to that promise?? Still, I am willing
to forget about the theocratic Islamic nature of our neighbors. What I don't
want is same to be repeated in Bharat, or whatever is left of it. Sir, don't
collaborate with those (for the sake of some abstract ideology) whose agenda
dictates creating one dozen Bosnias in Bharat (they have half succeeded in
Kashmir). --- Rajiv Varma <rva...@ccaix.jsums.edu>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 14:43:36 +0100
From: yogesh shouche <y...@venus.gbf-braunschweig.d400.de>
Subject: Muslims and Washington Post article
This is in response to the article from Washington Post dated 12-
03-94. The article gives a biased and one sided view of the issue.
It leaves an impression that muslims are discriminated against in
India, which is far from truth. ( The other side feels that the
discrimination is in muslim's favor. ) The statistics presented in
the article may correct but there are definitely different reasons
for that. Those muslims who considered India to be their homeland
and integrated with the society have received all the recognitions
and honors like other citizens.
Since independence India had two muslim presidents and one vice
president. Did USA ever had a African American president ? Several
states had muslim Governors and chief ministers ( including a
muslim woman ). But one can forget the political appointments as
they are based on many other calculations. There was at least one
muslim chief in the Air Force, the person heading India's ambitious
missile programma is a muslim. Present cabinet secretary ( highest
civil service post in the country ) is muslim. Hindi film industry
is full of muslim music directors, photographers, lyricists,
directors, actors/actresses. Mohammad Azharuddin, Pataudi, Aslam
Sher Khan are all muslims. In the field of Indian classical music
more than 50% of the well known performers are muslims. Bismillah
Khan used to play in Varanasi temple and Amjad Ali Khan performs
during Ganesh Festival. The list is endless.
I honor freedom of press, but I feel that in addition to narrow
minded leaders and fanatics, journalists of this type are equally
responsible for the present problems in the country. As India Today
reported few days back, some inspiring stories go unreported. Very
few people know the story of Dave brothers in Sidpur of Gujrath.
They pardoned two young muslims from the murder charge of their
brother during last year's riots and this in turn resulted in the
acquittal of 33 other persons. I am sure there will be many
examples of this type which will never be reported by the
journalists.
The inspiration often comes from unexpected sources. We can tap
hate or harmony. Choice is ours.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 17:37:08 -0600 (CST)
From: sika...@aha.intellection.com
Subject: Reg. Bite the hand that feeds you, & you are likely to get slapped!
Dear Friends,
I have been reading the articles on Rafiq Zakaria, discussion on
'Vandematram', etc lately. Here I am not going to comment upon Rafiq
Zakaria or Vandematram. My purpose is to make an attempt to clarify
some of the doubts which most of my Hindu brothers seems to have. I
find this mail by Jana M, a nice place to start.
My friend Jana M writes:
>During the past few years I have been quite confused about Muslims and their
>religion Islam. I had the good fortune to be brought up in a family where Gita,
>Koran and Bible... were revered; Subha Bijoya, Id and Christmas celebrated with
>equal enthusiasm and the children were taught (both at home and at school) that
>all religions are good. But as I grew up and learned about some of the princi-
>ples in Islam, and also observing that today, where ever there is terrorism,
>where there is a war - there is a Muslim; I am having some serious doubts.
The word Islam itself literally means peace. The concept of Jihad in
Islam is too broad, it simply doesn't mean that take whatever wepons
you have and wage a war on non-belivers.
If you want to judge Islam don't just look at the Muslims, because lately
these two are becoming two different entities. If you want an example
of how a Muslim lives, how a Muslim behave among people of different
faith, look at the life of prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h).
The statement - 'where there is a war - there is a Muslim', well I
would like to say 'where there is man, there is war'. One cannot find
a single country on earth where there is peace. If you look carefully
its all because man's own mistakes, no religion has nothing to do with it.
Look at 13 years of prophets (p.b.u.h) life in Mecca when he and his
followers were tortured and pained just because they were following a
different faith. Hazrath Bilal who was a strict follwer of Islam was
dragged on burning hot sand of the desert with a big stone on his
chest. Finally prophet Mohammed p.b.u.h) was forced to leave Mecca and
go to Madina. But when prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h) conquered Mecca and
entered Mecca with thousands of other Muslims, what did he do, he
declared amnesty for all those who stay at home and don't attack the Muslims.
I didn't get a chance to read Mr. Najid Hussain's article, I want to
refrain myself from any comments before I read it fully.
My dear brothers, don't comment upon any religion before you know it
fully. Most of the articles I read commenting on Islam and Muslims are purely
blasphemous, written by individuals whose sole purpose is to attack Islam.
-Javed Sikander
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 16:29:24 -0600 (CST)
From: R0D...@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU
Subject: Reg Prakash's posting about feeling of being an Indian
I agree with Prakash's view yet I would point out a factual error that is
the iron pillar in Delhi is Ashoka Stambha not Stupa ( I am really doubtful)
of being it a Ashoka Pillar as well though it dates back to about same period
( I do not know what exactly it is called)...but regarding Stupas ..they are
DOME like strucutures in which the ashes of monks were preserved and they laso
(also) date back to about same period...the most notable are the Stupa at
SANCHI in Madhay(Madhya) Pradesh (M.P) and the other one...Dhamekha Stupa
at Sarnath near Varanasi ( U.P)....and it was at Sarnath where the famous
four lions atop a pillar and the Ashoka's Dhamma Chakra ( the wheel which
goes in our Ntational flag) were excaveted.....the pillar in Delhi near
Qutab Minar is from Gupta period, However I would like the readr(readers) to
correct me .
PS: sorruy for the typos cant edit from this terminal.
Rakesh Dubey
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 09:49:14 -0500
From: Rajeshdutt...@cyber.Widener.EDU
Subject: Vande Mataram
Dear Netters:
I am really moved after reading the discussions regarding the context under
which the song "vande mataram" is portrayed. I have heard this song being
played during most of the national events when I was in India. However since
I don't understand sanskrit I never really figured out the entire song.
Neverthless I formed my own conclusions about it. But I'd appreciate if somebody
like << Mr. Dinesh Agrawal >> would post the entire song along with the english
translation in the net. Also there is a movie which is a real classic made on
the novel Anand Math. Do check this out.
Happy viewing ,
Rajesh.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 10:24:55 -0500 (EST)
From: s...@phys.physics.ucf.edu ( Sudipto Choudhury )
Subject: Vande Mataram
Regarding Bankim, it is not really relevant whether, if at all,
he was communal. That is a moot point. He was certainly a great novelist
and thinker for his time. What is more relevant is that the present attempt
to force Muslims to sing Vande Mataram is purely political in nature.
Also, about my earlier analysis, one has only to compare recent events in
India with various historical events (such as the Mexican Revolution,
the Argentinian counter-revolution (post Bolivar/San Martin), the Spanish
Revolution and Counter-Revolution, and the biggies like the French and
English Revolutions) to see that there is really a big struggle (based
on a peculiar mixture of class and caste -- claste as it's sometimes called)
for empowerment of the underclass currently in progress is India. In many
ways, it is the struggle for a genuine revolution from below which didn't
happen during Independence (but occurring within the democratic framework)
and which people such as J.P & Lohia had called for (see Mulayam Singh's
& Kanshi Ram's recent statements for instance). In all such situations, the
elite oppose this movement towards power-sharing and democratisation -- if
all else fails, then by draconian and repressive measures. That is really
what the Hindutva movement is about -- using the combination of irrational
fear and hatred of the other (Muslims) and the backwards, and employing
prpaganda, and even genocidal statements and tactics. It is historically
true that only political awareness on the part of the masses (especially
the rural population) can stop this movement against democratisation and
towards totalitarianism. The results of last November's elections provide
some grounds for optimism, but these tendencies can only be decisively and
permanently checked if the feudal order of landholding and production
is broken or at least strongly disturbed by primary education, land reform,
and local governance (Panchayati Raj). Notice that Panchayati Raj without
prior land reform can actually make the situation worse, since it may
strengthen the power of an already oppressive rural elite. Note too that
the feudal order has been strongly shaken in Bihar, West Bengal and Kerala.
Again, this is similar to the historical experience in Europe, where this
occurred in England in the sixteenth century, in France during the French
Revolution, while both Italy and Germany had to wait till the nineteenth
century to really attain the post-feudal phase. Spain is a paradox, having
attained a sense of nationhood and local democratic structures in the
late-fifteenth century, but having its movement towards true democracy
subverted till this century by many factors including an ancient tradition
of Roman law and the Catholic religion, which caused it to champion the
Couter-Reformation against the modernisisng religious and political currents
of the Reformation. Sudipto Roy Choudhury
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 21:23:37 -0700 (MST)
From: Indranil Barman <iba...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Vande Matarm!! What about "Jana Gana Mana"?
Now everybody is talking about "Vande Mataram" .It is no doubt a
controversial song . But our national song "Jana Gana Mana" is even more
controversial than "Vande Mataram".The national song is supposed to arise
some feeling for our motherland.But this song is regarding worshipping
some superior being .There is no point in worshipping god in our national
song. There is no controversy regarding this god because it is
undefined(may be a secular god).
I read some articles which even says that it was originally written for a
British lord who was visiting India (I have no idea whether it is true or
not,but the song is about praising somebody who rules India).
Anyway, it is ridiculous how this song became our national song.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 15:22:27 -0500 (EST)
From: ci...@mse.ufl.edu
Subject: War Toys and Hindu Gods!!!
Hi India dears!
I think it is outrageous, contemptible and disgusting to see the Indian
Armed Forces naming their weapons of destruction after Hindu gods who are
benign to the point of being described as cowardly by some of our Muslim
bretheren. I refer to such monstrosities as the ballistic missiles Prithvi
and Agni and the frigate Godavari. Why don't they name their war toys
after real war gods like Athena, Ares, Thor etc.? Or better yet, why not
get contemporary about the issue and name their next battle ship
"Allahu-Akbar" or "Jihad" or "Yahweh" or "Mujhaddeen" or something like
that? Here in America, the navy has an Ohio class missile-submarine named
"Corpus Christi" that bristles with enough nuclear-tipped warheads to
inflict 200 megadeaths (about 80% of the U.S. population) - cute, isn't it?
The Indian government's policy is particularly hard to understand,
given their penchant for appeasing all religious minorities at all levels,
starting with the list of religious holidays. Is there anybody that we
could write to and complain?
Coimbatore Venkateswaran Iswaran
------------------------------
Spiritual/Religion
==================
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 15:42:23 -0800 (PST)
From: ebpe...@okanagan.bc.ca (Erik B. Pedersen)
Subject: Reply to "Against All Religions" (Part 2/2)
In a 2-part article "Against all religions", Rahul Sharma said people
are motivated by fear to become religious, that "religious" people have
sometimes acted cruelly, and science and our hearts can help us to a better
world. However, a person impelled by love (a higher motivator than fear)
cannot be cruel, and science and devotional service have their place in
approaching truth. Mr. Sharma said man conquers the world by intelligence,
but the desire to bring nature under man's control is old-fashioned. It is
arrogant to believe we can improve upon what is already functioning very
well by the subtle arrangement of the Supreme Person. We had a "Green
Revolution" to increase crop yields, but newer seed strains required
massive applications of pesticides and fertilisers because they were not as
hardy and adapted to their environment as native varieties. Large debauched
companies like Nestle's have made systematic propaganda in the developing
world promoting bottle-feeding of infants, and now infants are dying from
malnutrition or disease who would have survived had they been breast-fed.
These are two examples where science has made the world demonstrably worse.
Mr. Sharma thought people in houses of worship should not "debase them-
selves" because it is "contemptible", but Lord Chaitanya set the example,
saying, "One can chant the holy name of God in a humble frame of mind,
thinking himself lower than the straw in the street, more tolerant than the
tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige, and ready to offer all respect
to others." Lord Jesus preached that one who is injured on the cheek should
offer the other cheek. Such an attitude is more noble than immediately to
defend oneself against every slight, whether real or imagined, and is the
sign of healthy maturity, while irascible pugnacity is not.
Knowledge, kindliness, and courage were displayed by Krishna and Arjuna
at the Battle of Kurukshetra, by Buddha who left in search of enlighten-
ment, by Muhammad who declined to take vengeance against his defeated
opponents, by Jesus who voluntarily accepted suffering, by Ramanujacharya
who disobeyed his guru for the benefit of the world, and by others as well.
I am sorry Mr. Sharma has chosen to characterise the wisdom of the
seers of the Vedas and Upanishads which have occupied great thinkers like
Thoreau, Emerson and Schopenhauer, to say nothing of the acharyas of India,
as "words uttered by ignorant men." This is breathtaking in its glaucomic
nescience, and bespeaks incredible bigotry. But Krishna Himself admits He
is never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. Religion is not some-
thing to be understood by "blind faith". The Svetasvatara Upanishad speaks
of devotional service to the Supreme Lord as the means to break the fetters
of maya by which our senses have overcome our vaunted "free intelligence".
Not religion, but man misled by tribal hatreds, threatens our existence.
------------------------------
Sports
======
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 22:37:34 -0600 (CST)
From: Suresh Chandra Dalai <scd...@artsci.wustl.edu>
Subject: Rules of cricket
While growing up in India, I used to play cricket all the time. But now
that I have lived in America for a while, I have forgotten the rules;
thus, I can't understand the scores given in the news. Can someone
explain the scoring in cricket? I would love to relearn about the game.
Suresh Dalai
------------------------------
End of India Interest Group Digest
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