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Nothing particular, just some comments.

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Stella Wesley-Flynn

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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I've been going through the jes conversion notebook for upgrading from jes2
5.2 to os390/2.4 jes2
and basically I want to know what the guys in the labs have been smoking
and can I have some?

I mean, DOGCATs - Have they been attempting some weird and wonderful
cloning exercise?
CATABLE...is this a new kittylitter?
I've also found DILBERTS......this is a class cartoon strip although the
animated cartoon just doesn't quite hit the mark!
And JQHEADS , does this have some comparison to PETROLHEADS?

Excerpt from the migration notebook:
| The $DOGCAT macro provides an interface to find the address of a CAT. It
| is also recommended that the CAT obtained using $DOGCAT be used for
| finding queue heads rather than $JQHEADS.

| Migration Action: Use $DOGCAT wherever your code has used $CATABLE to
| compute the address of a CAT. Use the CAT found via $DOGCAT to access the

| job queue head for the class.


Stella Wesley-Flynn
HSDS - Leeds Software Services, S390 Team

Joe Zitzelberger

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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It is a big improvement over the days of the mandatory black suit & tie
FBI agent look, isn't it...

>>=Stella Wesley-Flynn at 8WE...@UK.IBM.COM said on 7/14/99 7:09=<<


-=Psychedelic Harry=-
http://ldl.net/~zberger/

The manual said "Windows 95 or better", so I used a Macintosh.

Nix, Robert P.

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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I always thought that a Cat's address was the address of its chosen human.
And I've never been able to use a Cat for anything, especially finding
things.
:{)
----
Robert P. Nix internet: nix.r...@mayo.edu
Mayo Clinic phone: 507-284-0844
200 1st St. SW page: 507-255-3450
Rochester, MN 55905
----
"You have to watch what you eat: Butter killed my Uncle...
of course, my Aunt had smeared it on the stairs, but still..."

Daniel A. McLaughlin

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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When I found the references to BERTNUM and a reference to DOGBERT, I
thought I was trapped in an alternate reality. Must be the offspring of the
Berkley
crowd that wrote Unix - grep?

Metz, Seymour

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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How is that any worse than IGDZILLA?

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

Bruce Baumgart

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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At 12:18 PM 7/14/99 -0400, Seymour wrote:
>How is that any worse than IGDZILLA?
>
That, at least, is a reasonable description of it.

Bruce Baumgart This space intentionally left blank.
baum...@inel.gov
Lockheed-Martin Idaho Tech

Bruce Black

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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"Metz, Seymour" wrote:
>
> How is that any worse than IGDZILLA?

The folklore says that the person responsible for that name was canned
by IBM.

--
Bruce A. Black
Senior Software Developer for
FDR, CPK, ABR, SOS, UPSTREAM, FATS/FATAR
Innovation Data Processing
973-890-7300
bbl...@fdrinnovation.com

Scott Harder

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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At this point in time, I think there is a direct correlation between SMS and
Godzilla. Fits to a tee!

Scott Harder
Advanced Software Products Group, Inc.
3185 Horseshoe Drive South
Naples, FL 34104
(800) 662-6090
Fax: (941) 649-6391
sco...@aspg.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU]On
> Behalf Of Metz, Seymour
> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 12:18 PM
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
>
>

> How is that any worse than IGDZILLA?
>

Daniel A. McLaughlin

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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I guess it's reflective of the generation busting out the code. Next we'll
be seeing
$POKEMON!!

Curt Silveus

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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Did you know that the author of Dilbert used to work on MVS systems at
PACBELL? I think in IMS.
Any of the information above/below is subject to: "Year 2000 Readiness
Disclosure under the Federal Year 2000 Information and Readiness
Disclosure Act"

-----Original Message-----
From: Stella Wesley-Flynn [SMTP:8WE...@UK.IBM.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 4:10 AM
To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU

Subject: Nothing particular, just some comments.

I've been going through the jes conversion notebook for upgrading from jes2
5.2 to os390/2.4 jes2
and basically I want to know what the guys in the labs have been smoking
and can I have some?

I mean, DOGCATs - Have they been attempting some weird and wonderful
cloning exercise?
CATABLE...is this a new kittylitter?
I've also found DILBERTS......this is a class cartoon strip although the
animated cartoon just doesn't quite hit the mark!
And JQHEADS , does this have some comparison to PETROLHEADS?

Excerpt from the migration notebook:

Bruce Black

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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when SMS first came out, IGDZILLA was about 1MB which made it a monster
among load modules. Today (OS/390 2.6) it is 1629K; I guess a couple of
eggs hatched.

But it is no longer the largest load module in MVS. In LPA there are 3
larger:
NAME DATA/MSG ALIASOF TTR MAIN MATCH LENGTH
EUVPDLL 030423 8466312
ECNDLL 009516 4829944
EUVSDLL 02D60B 1814024
I suspect these have something to do with Unix Sys Services (USS).

In linklib there are:
ARCCTL (hsm) 07D10B 3073104
BPXINPVT 085D04 2825904
EUVSSECD 064D1B 2706488
EUVDCECP 055508 2554960

I guess USS is the new champion memory hog.

Shane Ginnane

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Jul 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/14/99
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Have a look at SHASMAC ...
$BERT - HASP Block Extension Reuse Table
$DILBERT - Do it later BERT services
$DOGBERT -- Deliver or Get BERT

there are several $DILxxx and $DOGxxx members.

----- Original Message ----- :
:
: P.S. The $DOGBERT and $DILBERT macros came from
: a new control block called a BERT (not sure what the acronym
: stands for) but I guess the developers were having some fun.

Rick Fochtman

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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IIRC, it started life as the Houston Automatic Spooling Program; guess where!

Howard M Dean wrote:

> Nope, I believe JES2 is written back east in New York.
>
> Howard Dean
>
> Damc...@aol.com on 07/14/99 07:16:00 AM
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU@Internet
> cc: (bcc: Howard M Dean/CA/KAIPERM)

Russell, Alan ASA

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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Actually, Houston Automatic Spooling Priority, according to OS/390 V2R4.0
JES2 Introduction.

Edward J. Finnell,III , Ed

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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Well, semi. ASP as originally delivered was probably from one of
New York houses. When Nasa was in full bloom, they were doing much
to push the edge of data processing for their vast telemtry, command
and control, and simulation needs.

They took one look at ASP and immediately begin to whittle. The desigh
objective was 50% and the working name was Half ASP. They succeeded and
many others decided if it was good enough for NASA it was good enough
for them. The shipped version was Houston Automatic Spooling Priority.

EDWARD J. FINNELL,III(EFIN...@OLDVM.UA.EDU)
ENTERPRISE SYSTEMS/PROJ. MGR.
http://www.ua.edu

Rich Pierson

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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According to the JES2 Migration Notebook, Chapter 1: DIL= Do It Later,
DOG = Deliver Or Get, BERT = Block Extension Reuse Table

Rich Pierson
Lockheed Martin Services
Operations and Support

-----Original Message-----
From: Howard M Dean [SMTP:Howard...@KP.ORG]
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 8:25 PM
To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.

And as JES2 at the IRS says: Many happy $RETURNS.

Howard Dean

P.S. The $DOGBERT and $DILBERT macros came from
a new control block called a BERT (not sure what the acronym
stands for) but I guess the developers were having some fun.


8WE...@UK.IBM.COM on 07/14/99 04:10:00 AM


To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU@Internet
cc: (bcc: Howard M Dean/CA/KAIPERM)

Metz, Seymour

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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Close: make that "Priority".

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Fochtman [SMTP:Rick.F...@BOTCC.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 7:53 AM
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
>

Phil Payne

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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> Well, semi. ASP as originally delivered was probably from one of
> New York houses. When Nasa was in full bloom, they were doing much
> to push the edge of data processing for their vast telemtry, command
> and control, and simulation needs.

I think functional and usable HASP predated ASP by a couple of years.

I remember being deeply involved in an ASP feasibility study in 1971
or so. Nightmare. The bank (for such it was) decided to employ unique
device addresses on each of three 360/65s, but use a common system
generation. So on each system, 2/3rds of the devices generated didn't
exist. IBM had claimed that a 360/50 would act as support to three
360/65 mains. Within a week we knew it was the other way round.

Within the UK, I have to name the systems programming teams at Rolls
Royce and Rank Xerox for making _MAJOR_ contributions to ASP code. As
first shipped, only the concept was any good. I especially hated the
way the consoles rolled - didn't ASP development talk to DIDOCS
development _at_ _all_?

I don't think there was _any_ common code. HASP was essentially a
single monster CSECT.

--
Phil Payne
http://www.isham-research.demon.co.uk
Phone +44 385 302803 Fax +44 870 0883933

Hall, Ken , ECSS

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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This more or less coincides with my remembrance. First I saw of HASP that
I'm sure of was at either Brooklyn College or City College of NY in 1971/72
on a 360/50 (we were using a 2770 RJE station to them from my High School).
Brooklyn College MAY have been using it as far back as 1970 if memory
serves.

First time I saw ASP was at CUNY (City University of New York) in 1973 on a
370/168.

Obviously this doesn't mean they weren't around before that, but it somewhat
validates the time frames.

For the REALLY obscure, does anybody remember CRBE-20? Or CALL-OS? I still
have books on them around someplace...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Payne [SMTP:S390...@ISHAM-RESEARCH.DEMON.CO.UK]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:13 PM
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
>

Bruce Black

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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"Metz, Seymour" wrote:
>
> That's obscure? What about RUSH? Or RAX? Or the original name of Roscoe?

inquiring minds want to know!

Scott Harder

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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For anybody who started on TSO (like me - 1983), Roscoe was a pure pain to
use. I never could get used to it - mostly because we ran both. TSO was
always there for me to fall back on (or forward on, as the case may be). It
got so the only time I logged onto Roscoe was to see if I could - usually
the 1st step in troubleshooting some kind of user problem (rule in/out the
network).

Scott Harder
Advanced Software Products Group, Inc.
3185 Horseshoe Drive South
Naples, FL 34104
(800) 662-6090
Fax: (941) 649-6391
sco...@aspg.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU]On
> Behalf Of Metz, Seymour

> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 11:51 AM
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
>
>

> That's obscure? What about RUSH? Or RAX? Or the original name
> of Roscoe?
>

> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>
> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Hall, Ken (ECSS) [SMTP:KeH...@EXCHANGE.ML.COM]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 11:44 AM
> > To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
> >

Metz, Seymour

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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Hall, Ken , ECSS

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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Not to mention Wylbur, which CUNY ran alongside CALL-OS.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Harder [SMTP:Sco...@ASPG.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:41 PM
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
>

> For anybody who started on TSO (like me - 1983), Roscoe was a pure pain to
> use. I never could get used to it - mostly because we ran both. TSO was
> always there for me to fall back on (or forward on, as the case may be).
> It
> got so the only time I logged onto Roscoe was to see if I could - usually
> the 1st step in troubleshooting some kind of user problem (rule in/out the
> network).
>
> Scott Harder
> Advanced Software Products Group, Inc.
> 3185 Horseshoe Drive South
> Naples, FL 34104
> (800) 662-6090
> Fax: (941) 649-6391
> sco...@aspg.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU]On
> > Behalf Of Metz, Seymour

Rob C. Schramm

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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... Remote Online System Communications for Office Environments ....

It seems like nobody likes poor ROSCOE...

I started on ROSCOE.. but curiously enough.. it's a lot easier to install an
operating system with TSO than with ROSCOE.

Rob Schramm
Fifth Third Bank
MVS Systems
(513)744-6831
<all comments are my own...>

> For anybody who started on TSO (like me - 1983), Roscoe was a
> pure pain to
> use. I never could get used to it - mostly because we ran
> both. TSO was
> always there for me to fall back on (or forward on, as the
> case may be). It
> got so the only time I logged onto Roscoe was to see if I
> could - usually
> the 1st step in troubleshooting some kind of user problem
> (rule in/out the
> network).
>

> > Behalf Of Metz, Seymour
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 11:51 AM
> > To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
> >
> >
> > That's obscure? What about RUSH? Or RAX? Or the original name
> > of Roscoe?
> >
> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Hall, Ken (ECSS) [SMTP:KeH...@EXCHANGE.ML.COM]
> > >

C. Todd Burrell

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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I used Roscoe for about 6 years before I was hired by a shop that did not
have Roscoe. So now I am an ISPF/TSO person. However, IBM could learn a
few lessons from the Roscoe folks about good built in commands. And the
Roscoe editor beats ISPF's editor every time. I've had to write many REXX
execs and edit macros to enable me to do what came built in with Roscoe.

To each his own, I guess...

Metz, Seymour

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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WRAP.

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Black [SMTP:bbl...@FDRINNOVATION.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:34 PM
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
>

> "Metz, Seymour" wrote:
> >
> > That's obscure? What about RUSH? Or RAX? Or the original name of Roscoe?
>

Metz, Seymour

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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That's what the acronym stands for, perhaps, but it's not the original name.

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob C. Schramm [SMTP:Rob.S...@53.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:47 PM
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
>

Metz, Seymour

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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Wylbur may have had a klutzy syntax, but it could do things that non of the
other editors on MVS or VM could do; in fact, they still can't.

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hall, Ken (ECSS) [SMTP:KeH...@EXCHANGE.ML.COM]

> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:54 PM
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
>

Curt Silveus

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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Super Wylbur was even more super. Did you ever hear of INTERACT it had the
same syntax and was eventual bought by the WYLBUR staff? I work at a shop
for ( years that used it instead of TSO. Especially since it was easier
to REXX like code and run it intercatively. Towards they end they even
had a PANEL option.

Any of the information above/below is subject to: "Year 2000 Readiness
Disclosure under the Federal Year 2000 Information and Readiness
Disclosure Act"

Curt Silveus

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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Same with WYLBUR and INTERACT so much easier to use and al kinds of command
that did what it takes hundreds of lines to do in a CLIST.

Any of the information above/below is subject to: "Year 2000 Readiness
Disclosure under the Federal Year 2000 Information and Readiness
Disclosure Act"

-----Original Message-----
From: C. Todd Burrell [SMTP:tbur...@HARLAND.NET]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 10:04 AM
To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.

Metz, Seymour

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> Interact looked like the old SLAC Wylbur; it didn't have the enhancements
> that were present in SuperWylbur. Interact was bought out by OBS, whose
> Wylbur was also backlevel. AFAIK none of the original Wylbur staff ever
> worked for OBS. John and Roger started working on SuperWylbur but split up
> early on. Roger Developed NIH Wylbur and John developed SuperWylbur, both
> of which were head and shoulders above the other Wylbur variants.
> SuperWylbur is still on the market; I'm not sure whether NIH is still
> distributing NIH Wylbur.
>
> I don't find Wylbur syntax to be easier than REXX code, but I put up with
> it because of things like associative ranges, which none of the TSO
> editors have.

>
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Curt Silveus [SMTP:si...@pegasystems.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 1:55 PM
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
>

Jeff Williams

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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ROSCOE = Really Obscure System for Computer Online Entry

How do you like that one? ;-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Black [SMTP:bbl...@FDRINNOVATION.COM]

Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:34 PM
To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.

Rob C. Schramm

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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I think that there are some more obscure ones... I've never heard of MUSIC.

> ROSCOE = Really Obscure System for Computer Online Entry
>
> How do you like that one? ;-)
>

Rob C. Schramm

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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Writer Remote Access Protcol..
*Can you tell I'm guessing!?!?*

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Metz, Seymour [mailto:sm...@NSF.GOV]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 14:19
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
>
>

> I like it, but it's wrong. The original name was WRAP. Who
> knows what that
> stands for?
>
> Tom, please don't spill the beans!


>
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>
> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Jeff Williams [SMTP:jef...@ATTACHMATE.COM]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 2:14 PM
> > To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
> >

> > ROSCOE = Really Obscure System for Computer Online Entry
> >
> > How do you like that one? ;-)
> >

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bruce Black [SMTP:bbl...@FDRINNOVATION.COM]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:34 PM
> > To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
> >

Metz, Seymour

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Tom Bishop

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Not very likely. Having installed and modified ASP in 1969/70 and HASP in
1971/72, I am convinced that the developers never talked to each other. The
basic structure and format of the two products was very different.

Thomas (Tom) J. Bishop
Information Technology Agency
City of Los Angeles, CA. 90012, USA
+1 213 847 3920
tbi...@ita.ci.la.ca.us

This message is intended only for the addressee. Any other use violates
copyright law.
Year 2000 Information and Readiness Disclosure Act of 1998: Information
contained herein may be "Year 2000 Readiness Disclosure" as defined by the
Year 2000 Information and Readiness Disclosure Act of 1998, (Public Law
105-271, 112 Stat. 2386, a U.S. statute), enacted on October 19, 1998.

>>> "Edward(Ed) J. Finnell,III" <EFIN...@OLDVM.UA.EDU> 07/15 7:40 AM >>>


Well, semi. ASP as originally delivered was probably from one of
New York houses. When Nasa was in full bloom, they were doing much
to push the edge of data processing for their vast telemtry, command
and control, and simulation needs.

They took one look at ASP and immediately begin to whittle. The desigh

Metz, Seymour

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
to
Isn't that MUSIC/SP these days? Anyone here from McGill that knows?

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob C. Schramm [SMTP:Rob.S...@53.COM]

> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 2:15 PM
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
>

> I think that there are some more obscure ones... I've never heard of
> MUSIC.
>

> > ROSCOE = Really Obscure System for Computer Online Entry
> >
> > How do you like that one? ;-)
> >

Metz, Seymour

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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Yes, and you're not even close. The W derives from Geograhy, not
functionality.

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob C. Schramm [SMTP:Rob.S...@53.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 2:19 PM
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
>

> Writer Remote Access Protcol..
> *Can you tell I'm guessing!?!?*
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Metz, Seymour [mailto:sm...@NSF.GOV]

> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 14:19
> > To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
> >
> >

> > I like it, but it's wrong. The original name was WRAP. Who
> > knows what that
> > stands for?
> >
> > Tom, please don't spill the beans!
> >

> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jeff Williams [SMTP:jef...@ATTACHMATE.COM]
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 2:14 PM
> > > To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> > > Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
> > >

> > > ROSCOE = Really Obscure System for Computer Online Entry
> > >
> > > How do you like that one? ;-)
> > >

> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bruce Black [SMTP:bbl...@FDRINNOVATION.COM]

> > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:34 PM
> > > To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> > > Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
> > >

Phil Payne

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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> Yes, and you're not even close. The W derives from Geograhy, not
> functionality.

Waterloo?

Just a guess.

Patrick Falcone Digest

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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Did ROSCOE in 79, loved it - also didn't know any better, went to TSO in
83, it was OK, doing COBOL "stuff". Got into capacity and performance
shortly thereafter and immediately realized at that time that ROSCOE was
much more resource efficient than TSO, especially since we were running a
IBM 3033 with 16 Mb. TSO chewed resources.

"C. Todd Burrell" <tbur...@HARLAND.NET> on 07/15/99 01:04:06 PM

Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU>

To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
cc: (bcc: Patrick Falcone/USA/AIS/Support/AONCORP)


Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.

Metz, Seymour

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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> Wayne.

>
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Payne [SMTP:S390...@ISHAM-RESEARCH.DEMON.CO.UK]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 4:06 PM
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
>

rgilc...@bcidaho.com

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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I used MUSIC back in school. Don't remember any of the commands - not a
one.

It seems to me it stood for something like McGill University System for
Interactive Computing

Don't quote me on that, it's been a few years.

We, too, are a ROSCOE shop. I don't care for it, I find it to be very
archaic. The users who have been here for years don't remember ROSCOE ever
being any other name. They do remember the DOS version and even something
called DOS-VOLLEY that was a better editor. If I had to stick a name on
ROSCOE's acronym, it would be something like:

Really Odd System in a Confusing Online Environment

just my $.02

----

Robyn Gilchrist
Sr. Systems Programmer
Blue Cross of Idaho
208.331.7395
rgilc...@bcidaho.com

If you see that there are four possible ways in which a procedure
can go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way, unprepared for,
will promptly develop.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU]On

> Behalf Of Rob C. Schramm
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:15 PM
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
>
>

> I think that there are some more obscure ones... I've never
> heard of MUSIC.
>

> > ROSCOE = Really Obscure System for Computer Online Entry
> >
> > How do you like that one? ;-)
> >

Daniel A. McLaughlin

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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MUSIC was from McGill University in Canada and worked in a VM environment.
Can't remember what all the rest of the letters stood for...

Patrick Mullen

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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Daniel A. McLaughlin a écrit:

> MUSIC was from McGill University in Canada and worked in a VM environment.
> Can't remember what all the rest of the letters stood for...

Check out http://MUSICM.McGill.CA/~MSI/HTTP/mus53.html

Still going strong it would seem....

Patrick Mullen
Montreal, Canada

Mark Zelden

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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"C. Todd Burrell" wrote:
>
> I used Roscoe for about 6 years before I was hired by a shop that did not
> have Roscoe. So now I am an ISPF/TSO person. However, IBM could learn a
> few lessons from the Roscoe folks about good built in commands. And the
> Roscoe editor beats ISPF's editor every time. I've had to write many REXX
> execs and edit macros to enable me to do what came built in with Roscoe.
>

Ditto!

I supported and used Roscoe at my first job. I loved it, and didn't
use TSO/ISPF much. Its editor is very powerful. I also liked being
able to do more than 2 things at once (long before logical ISPF
sessions). When I went to a shop that did not have it, I started
writing edit macros to simulate Roscoe functions (see my web site).
Just adding a "stack" command to the ISPF command table to bring up
another primary panel made things much easier.

I'm curious what Roscoe is like now since I haven't used it in about
12 years, but I doubt I would ever prefer it again.


--
+--------------------------------+--------------------------------+
| Mark Zelden | OS/390 Consultant |
| http://www.flash.net/~mzelden/ | 3D Business Solutions |
| mailto:mze...@flash.net | mailto:mze...@3dsolutions.com |
+--------------------------------+--------------------------------+

Check out my MVS utilities page at:
http://www.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html

Patrick Mullen

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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Mark Zelden a écrit:

> I supported and used Roscoe at my first job. I loved it, and didn't
> use TSO/ISPF much. Its editor is very powerful. I also liked being
> able to do more than 2 things at once (long before logical ISPF
> sessions).

I started off in a TSO/ISPF environment then moved to a shop running Software
AG's COM-PLETE. Now there was
a culture shock for you, but once I was used to the environment I found it
superior in many ways. It replaced CICS
as well as TSO/ISPF.

I'll never forget the IBM SE who told me that it was impossible to install an
MVS CBIPO using only COM-PLETE.
Naturally I proved him wrong!

Patrick Mullen
Montreal, Canada

Rob C. Schramm

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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Probably not a whole lot different from when you left. In typical fashion..
(slight vendor bash... to the sounds of a marching band) the amount of
developement seems to be more of an after-thought.. which I feel to be
unfortunate... but... I'm not in charge of it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Zelden [mailto:mze...@FLASH.NET]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 16:34
> To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Nothing particular, just some comments.
>
>

> "C. Todd Burrell" wrote:
> >
> > I used Roscoe for about 6 years before I was hired by a
> shop that did not
> > have Roscoe. So now I am an ISPF/TSO person. However, IBM
> could learn a
> > few lessons from the Roscoe folks about good built in
> commands. And the
> > Roscoe editor beats ISPF's editor every time. I've had to
> write many REXX
> > execs and edit macros to enable me to do what came built in
> with Roscoe.
> >
>
> Ditto!
>

> I supported and used Roscoe at my first job. I loved it, and didn't
> use TSO/ISPF much. Its editor is very powerful. I also liked being
> able to do more than 2 things at once (long before logical ISPF

Bruce Baumgart

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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At 04:48 PM 7/15/99 -0400, Patrick Mullen wrote:
>Mark Zelden a écrit:
>

>I started off in a TSO/ISPF environment then moved to a shop running Software


>AG's COM-PLETE. Now there was
>a culture shock for you, but once I was used to the environment I found it
>superior in many ways.
>

Until you had to take a SLIP trap. COM-PLETE replaced the FLIH address, but
din't have the bits set right to allow a mumble-mumble(PER?). I remember
having to alter memory and reset PSWs to allow mumble-mumble to happen.

Hey, it was a long time ago. Somethings are better off forgotten (or
repressed)

Bruce Baumgart This space intentionally left blank.
baum...@inel.gov
Lockheed-Martin Idaho Tech

Daniel A. McLaughlin

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99
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We once upon a time had a VS/1 guest under VM and maintained it without any
TSO, Wylbur, Roscoe, or any other interactive VS/1 package. Those were very
interesting times.

Tom Marchant

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Jul 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/15/99