Are any of us this desperate?
Gary Green
like they just put something into the field, so I sent an email asking about
the rate. "I" was mistaken. The rate is real. Oh yes, I read these as a
Systems Programming gigs, which was kinda confirmed in the reply email I
received.
Our client in Woodcliff Lakes, NJ is seeking 2 Software Support Specialists.
This role is primarily responsible for the software support and associated
services in customer accounts. You are required to participate in IBM's 24
hour continuous support commitment to its customers. Are usually based in a
centre, but may be required to undertake travel and nights away in the
delivery of on-site support and service. Provide accounts with total systems
software support in assigned areas. Be the primary technical interface to
customers for software support and the delivery of operational services as
required by the customer. Conduct problem analysis and problem solving with
skills which allows for the identification and resolution of software
problems and operational issues. Plan for and executes software services
activities including installation planning, account management, systems
problem determination, diagnosis, etc. for IBM and selected non-IBM systems.
In general assume total responsibility for developing positive relationships
with customer management and staff to ensure a high level of overall
customer satisfaction in all assigned areas. Specifically, ensure a high
level of customer satisfaction with software support and operational
services. BS/BA Degree from an accredited university/college or equivalent
experience 2 years in a support environment Perform Problem
Determination/Prob Source Ident Perform Problem Mgmt Use RETAIN for Software
Support Project Details: System z z/OS and CICS technical system programming
business as usual support for z/OS production environment. Primary Skill
Set: SW z/OS-S/390, MVS System Programmer Secondary Skill Sets:Enterprise
Systems IBM System z Job Title: Software Systems Specialist Primary Skills:
RETAIN; Z/OS; MVS Job Industry: Computers Vacancies: 2 Job City: Woodcliff
Lake Job Metro Area: Woodcliff Lake Job State: NJ Job Country: US Salary:
$20.00/HOURLY To $20.00/HOURLY Hours per Week: 40
Gary Green
<http://e-mail-servers.com/9b3d3acd74fc1621840a6bce1f5da911worker.jpg>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to list...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Steve Comstock
But you see, they have no intention of filling these jobs
with one of us: this will go to a foreign worker on an H1B
visa or simply be outsourced to the third world. They are
just fulfilling the legal requirement to advertise the
positions before hiring foreigners.
Kind regards,
-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.
303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com
z/OS Application development made easier
* Our classes include
+ How things work
+ Programming examples with realistic applications
+ Starter / skeleton code
+ Complete working programs
+ Useful utilities and subroutines
+ Tips and techniques
Gary Green
Kind regards,
303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com
<http://e-mail-servers.com/2c043b53fb578a8a10547d0aa560babdworker.jpg>
Graeme Gibson
*****************************************
** Follow the link and watch the video **
*****************************************
>Sounds like a way to "prove" there is no one to fill technical jobs in
>America so they NEED to either send the job overseas or bring in more HB1's.
>(or is it H1B)
Anyone who didn't watch that YouTube video of consultants coaching US
employers on how to work the system to get a (H1B) visa to import a
half-price (or less) person from overseas to take your jobs from you
should go and watch it now!
Here's the link, Watch it and weep, or better still get mad and
figure out how to embarrass your congressman!
>The vanishing American computer programmer
>
>Move to increase number of foreign worker visas fails in Senate, but
>that has ...
...snip...
>... com/2007/0702/p15s01-wmgn.htm
>http://tinyurl.com/2enylt
>And the amazing video: http://www.youtube.com/programmersguild
I suspect that ad was never intended to draw a serious qualified applicant.
Graeme
At 01:26 AM 11/18/2007, you wrote:
>This posting found its way to my inbox. I thought the rate was a mistake,
>like they just put something into the field, so I sent an email asking about
>the rate. "I" was mistaken. The rate is real. Oh yes, I read these as a
>Systems Programming gigs, which was kinda confirmed in the reply email I
>received.
>
>Our client in Woodcliff Lakes, NJ is seeking 2 Software Support Specialists.
>This role is primarily responsible for the software support and associated
>services in customer accounts. You are required to participate in IBM's 24
..<lots of snips>..
Shane
Plenty - note the .au web address.
Hopefully you yanks will take some notice.
It should be noted that things are no better for independents here in
the Antipodes.
I'm sure all of us (world-wide) have mates in dire straights.
This business is going to hell ...
Shane ...
Robert Justice
they are out of their minds.
Ed Gould
------------SNIP--------------------------
>
> This business is going to hell ...
>
> Shane ...
>
I did not notice it thanks for pointing it out. Is that salary even
close down under?
Ed
Anthony Saul Babonas
offering is greater than zero.
In 1991 I applied for and was accepted for such a position. The foreign
aspect that others have quoted did not
exist back then, it was simply a case of a large US insurance company
offering their version of a fair wage.
The job served its purpose for 16 months while I continued to search the
market. When I found a better job
I took it.
Now it's 2007 and I'd do it all again, if need be.
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Ed Gould
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:50 AM
To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
Ted MacNEIL
I would, too.
As long as it's greater than unemployment insurance.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!
Eric Bielefeld
New Jersey (I assume thats where the job was) and make it work. I'd also
just keep looking.
Eric Bielefeld
Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
414-475-7434
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Saul Babonas" <tbab...@INSIGHTBB.COM>
Subject: Re: Are any of us this desperate?
>I have been that desperate and I would apply for this job. What they are
> offering is greater than zero.
> In 1991 I applied for and was accepted for such a position. The foreign
> aspect that others have quoted did not
> exist back then, it was simply a case of a large US insurance company
> offering their version of a fair wage.
> The job served its purpose for 16 months while I continued to search the
> market. When I found a better job
> I took it.
>
> Now it's 2007 and I'd do it all again, if need be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Johnson
B Stephenson
Ed
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Ed Gould
> Last year, our company performed a salary survey in our market near
> Cleveland. When the results came back, the salary ranges were
> drastically altered downward by about 15K for systems programmers.
> Of course all of us balked at the idea that we were worth 15K less
> than the year before. Only after much wrangling did our management
> finally cave in and keep the old salary ranges. However, none of us
> have been promoted in the last 5 years!
>
> B Stephenson
------------------------------SNIP----------------------
Bill:
I am not too surprised at this. Cleveland has not been known for its
IS jobs, I can't remember the last time a head hunter even asked
about Cleveland. I think I would have spoken up and asked to at least
hear about how many companies were sampled (and their gross profit)
after all that probably the only way to compare apple to apples.
Anyway sorry to hear you got the raw end of the deal. Any company
that pulls things like that don't deserve much loyalty, IMO.
Graeme Gibson
(one correction: in my previous post I said HB1 when I meant H-1B)
Shane wrote..
>It should be noted that things are no better for independents here in
>the Antipodes.
>I'm sure all of us (world-wide) have mates in dire straights.
How true that is. My main point was that advertising such as the
example quoted by the OP is just part of the legal procedural
requirement that an employer in the US must go through in order to
qualify for the H-1B visa that then allows them to bring in an o/seas
worker (typically at below-market rates) to take a job that "locals"
will appear not to want, either because the salary is shockingly low,
or because they didn't even know about it because it was only
advertised in the Mudflap* Monthly Inquirer or similar small
circulation paper.
*Please note that I have nothing against Mudflap, should such a
town/city actually exist
It's part of the clever techniques taught by US-based "H-1B
specialists" to US employers to advertise in specially chosen media
and localities where there is almost no chance that a qualified US
citizen is going to even see the advertisment. The technique relies
also on anyone qualified who does see the ad not responding due to a.
low salary offered or b. apparent location of the job being far from
big population centers.
There are some 300,000 foreign workers in Australia under our "457
Visa" system, the equivalent of the US H-1B visa. Employers complain
about "lack of skilled staff" and the (Federal) government makes up
for its complete lack of leadership in education and training in the
last 10 years by quietly opening the floodgates to imported
talent. Imports generally don't mind working in the more difficult
situations where Australians might want special allowances
for. After all, if you're prepared to travel ten or fifteen thousand
miles to find a job then you probably won't be too picky.
Ed Gould asked:
>.. Is that salary even close down under?
From the (Australian) "Migration Regulations 1994" amended 2007 (IMMI 07/078):
(c) the applicable base salary is:
- (i) AUD 41,850 for occupations listed in Schedule A;
- (ii) AUD 57,300 for occupations listed in Schedule B;
- (iii) AUD 37,665 for occupations listed in Schedule C;
- (iv) AUD 51,570 for occupations listed in Schedule D;
..most of our IBM-MAIN technical jobs come under Schedule B :
__________________________________________________________________
SCHEDULE B - Information and Communication Technology occupations
allowable under standard Subclass 457 arrangements
1 MANAGERS AND ADMINISTRATORS
1224-11 Information Technology manager
2. PROFESSIONALS
2231-11 Systems Manager
2231-13 Systems Designer
2231-15 Software Designer
2231-17 Application and Analyst Programmer
2231-19 Systems Programmer
2231-21 Computer Systems Auditor
2231-21 Computing Professionals not elsewhere classified
__________________________________________________________________
..and while AUD 57,300 (USD 51,280) may be a bit low for Sysprog
salaries in Australia** it would seem that's still USD 10,000 higher
than the amount being offered in the ad quoted by the OP. Some of
you may choose to come to Australia to work, and actually get paid
more than you do at home, for a while at least :-)
**Someone with more intimate knowledge may wish to comment further on
typical AU sysprog's salaries!
Bottom line: Your politicians seem to be serving the interests of US
businesses, with little or no apparent regard for the interests of US
skilled workers. This is just classic politics with a dash of
Globalisation thrown in. And it's not surprising since US skilled
workers are not organised, don't typically make donations to
Congressmen's and Senator's PACs (or whatever re-election funding
schemes are currently called) and don't take anyone in Washington to
lunch. Uh, except for..
Google ~ K street H1B Visa ~ or click the following link
<http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=653&page=5>
<http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=653&page=5>IV In
Washington Post: Skilled Immigrants Turn to K Street"
and find the post by "Sobers". That will tell you about how the H-1B
visa holders have themselves organised to lobby Washington. Read it
and weep.
Google: ~ Immigration Voice to H1B Visa ~. Those hits will give you
lots to think about. The H-1B Visa holders, or their employers, know
how to use your political system and they're doing it.
..and.. B Stephenson wrote..
>Last year, our company performed a salary survey in our market near
>Cleveland. When the results came back, the salary ranges were
>drastically altered downward by about 15K for systems programmers.
..Survey methodology? Advertise enough of those $800/week jobs in
Cleveland and someone surveying salaries by looking at Job ads might
conclude that actual salaries were wayyy down. And, was there any
attempt to identify which jobs (if any) in the Cleveland area might
have been held by H-1B visa holders on, say, $800/week?
Sleep well.
Regards to all,
Graeme.
At 12:06 PM 11/19/2007, you wrote:
>Last year, our company performed a salary survey in our market near
>Cleveland. When the results came back, the salary ranges were
>drastically altered downward by about 15K for systems programmers.
>Of course all of us balked at the idea that we were worth 15K less
>than the year before. Only after much wrangling did our management
>finally cave in and keep the old salary ranges. However, none of us
>have been promoted in the last 5 years!
>
> B Stephenson
>
>Ed Gould <edgou...@COMCAST.NET> wrote:
> On Nov 18, 2007, at 2:46 AM, Shane wrote:
>------------SNIP--------------------------
> >
> > This business is going to hell ...
> >
> > Shane ...
> >
>Shane,
>
>I did not notice it thanks for pointing it out. Is that salary even
>close down under?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Gould
----------------SNIP------------------------
Graeme:
Thanks for the run down. So it really looks like the scam to hire
foreign workers at a really reduced salary (at least in AU and US).
Doesn't our elected officials have a clue what is going on?
Ed
Graeme Gibson
"..There are some 100,000 foreign workers in Australia under our "457
Visa" system,.."
(not 300,000 as I originally said)
Regards to all,
Graeme.
R.S.
[...]
> How true that is. My main point was that advertising such as the
> example quoted by the OP is just part of the legal procedural
> requirement that an employer in the US must go through in order to
> qualify for the H-1B visa that then allows them to bring in an o/seas
> worker (typically at below-market rates) to take a job that "locals"
> will appear not to want, either because the salary is shockingly low, or
> because they didn't even know about it because it was only advertised in
> the Mudflap* Monthly Inquirer or similar small circulation paper.
Did anyone think *why* the companies do that ?
Yes, they want foreigners, they prefer them over citizens. They avoid to
hire citizens, they're trying to circumvent law regulations as described
above.
Again - why ?
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
--
BRE Bank SA
ul. Senatorska 18
00-950 Warszawa
www.brebank.pl
S d Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy
XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru S dowego,
nr rejestru przedsi biorców KRS 0000025237
NIP: 526-021-50-88
Wed ug stanu na dzie 01.01.2007 r. kapita zak adowy BRE Banku SA (w ca o ci op acony) wynosi 118.064.140 z . W zwi zku z realizacj warunkowego podwy szenia kapita u zak adowego, na podstawie uchwa XVI WZ z dnia 21.05.2003 r., kapita zak adowy BRE Banku SA mo e ulec podwy szeniu do kwoty 118.760.528 z . Akcje w podwy szonym kapitale zak adowym b d w ca o ci op acone.
Van Dalsen, Herbie
would be interested...
Herbie
Elavon Financial Services Limited
Registered in Ireland: Number 418442
Registered Office: Block E, 1st Floor, Cherrywood Business Park, Loughlinstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland
Directors: Robert Abele (USA), John Collins, Terrance Dolan (USA), Pamela Joseph (USA), Declan Lynch, John McNally, Malcolm Towlson
Elavon Financial Services Limited, trading as Elavon, is regulated by the Financial Regulator
Ed Gould
> Graeme Gibson wrote:
> [...]
>> How true that is. My main point was that advertising such as the
>> example quoted by the OP is just part of the legal procedural
>> requirement that an employer in the US must go through in order to
>> qualify for the H-1B visa that then allows them to bring in an o/
>> seas worker (typically at below-market rates) to take a job that
>> "locals" will appear not to want, either because the salary is
>> shockingly low, or because they didn't even know about it because
>> it was only advertised in the Mudflap* Monthly Inquirer or similar
>> small circulation paper.
>
> Did anyone think *why* the companies do that ?
> Yes, they want foreigners, they prefer them over citizens. They
> avoid to hire citizens, they're trying to circumvent law
> regulations as described above.
> Again - why ?
>
Simple MONEY.
Ed
howard...@cusys.edu
>>Now it's 2007 and I'd do it all again, if need be.
>
>I would, too.
>As long as it's greater than unemployment insurance.
But not if it required moving to a place where my future opportunities
are weak. Moving is expensive in many ways.
Chase, John
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Gary Green
>
> [ snip ]
> BS/BA Degree from an accredited university/college or
> equivalent experience 2 years in a support environment
> Perform Problem Determination/Prob Source Ident Perform
> Problem Mgmt Use RETAIN for Software Support Project Details:
> System z z/OS and CICS technical system programming business
> as usual support for z/OS production environment. Primary Skill
> Set: SW z/OS-S/390, MVS System Programmer Secondary Skill
> Sets:Enterprise Systems IBM System z Job Title: Software
> Systems Specialist Primary Skills:
> RETAIN; Z/OS; MVS Job Industry: Computers Vacancies: 2 Job
> City: Woodcliff Lake Job Metro Area: Woodcliff Lake Job
> State: NJ Job Country: US Salary:
> $20.00/HOURLY To $20.00/HOURLY Hours per Week: 40
Nothing less than an outright insult.
-jc-
Mark Jacobs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Gary Green
>>
>> [ snip ]
>> BS/BA Degree from an accredited university/college or
>> equivalent experience 2 years in a support environment
>> Perform Problem Determination/Prob Source Ident Perform
>> Problem Mgmt Use RETAIN for Software Support Project Details:
>> System z z/OS and CICS technical system programming business
>> as usual support for z/OS production environment. Primary Skill
>> Set: SW z/OS-S/390, MVS System Programmer Secondary Skill
>> Sets:Enterprise Systems IBM System z Job Title: Software
>> Systems Specialist Primary Skills:
>> RETAIN; Z/OS; MVS Job Industry: Computers Vacancies: 2 Job
>> City: Woodcliff Lake Job Metro Area: Woodcliff Lake Job
>> State: NJ Job Country: US Salary:
>> $20.00/HOURLY To $20.00/HOURLY Hours per Week: 40
>
> Nothing less than an outright insult.
>
> -jc-
>
It's starvation wages. 20*40*52 = 41,600.
--
Mark Jacobs
Time Customer Service
Tampa, FL
------
The primary purpose of the DATA statement is to give names to
constants; instead of referring to pi as 3.141592653589793 at
every appearance, the variable PI can be given that value with
a DATA statement and used instead of the longer form of the constant.
This also simplifies modifying the program, should the value of
pi change.
- FORTRAN manual for Xerox computers
Anthony Saul Babonas
sell the Beemer
shoot the dog.
start using my Y2K Spam inventory.
cancel Caller ID.
stop my blood pressure meds, but wait, if I have no job I won't need them.
another "outright insult" downgrade to basic cable.
dust off the Bass boat, we need the fish.
move to India and work remotely. $40K is a king's ransom there, so my
Indian friends tell me.
divorce..........but wait, she still has a good income, BAD IDEA!
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Mark Jacobs
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 10:30 AM
To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Are any of us this desperate?
Edward Jaffe
>
> It's starvation wages. 20*40*52 = 41,600.
>
Insulting for an IT professional? Yes! A scam to ensure no actual US
takers? Almost certainly! Starvation wages? No!
Minimum wage in New Jersey is $7.15/hr.
http://lwd.dol.state.nj.us/labor/wagehour/lawregs/wage_and_hour_laws.html
--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
Los Angeles, CA 90045
310-338-0400 x318
edj...@phoenixsoftware.com
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
Aaron Walker
$123,022 in 2000)
Woodcliff Lake $134,600
New Jersey: $61,672
Estimated median house/condo value in 2005: $839,300 (it was
$450,700 in 2000)
Woodcliff Lake $839,300
New Jersey: $333,900
>It's starvation wages. 20*40*52 = 41,600.
>
>--
>Mark Jacobs
>Time Customer Service
>Tampa, FL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anton Britz
Have you ever worked/stayed in NEw Jersey ?
Because the "Minimum wage" only applies to legal people and how many poeple
in New Jersey are legal ?
20% maybe.. ok ... lets settle on 25 %..
Note: Spitzer understands the magnitude of the problem but the rest of the
country has no idea what's going on there.
Anton Britz
On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 08:51:42 -0800, Edward Jaffe
<edj...@PHOENIXSOFTWARE.COM> wrote:
>Mark Jacobs wrote:
>>
>> It's starvation wages. 20*40*52 = 41,600.
>>
>
>Insulting for an IT professional? Yes! A scam to ensure no actual US
>takers? Almost certainly! Starvation wages? No!
>
>Minimum wage in New Jersey is $7.15/hr.
>http://lwd.dol.state.nj.us/labor/wagehour/lawregs/wage_and_hour_laws.html
>
>--
>Edward E Jaffe
>Phoenix Software International, Inc
>5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
>Los Angeles, CA 90045
>310-338-0400 x318
>edj...@phoenixsoftware.com
>http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
daver++
>
> Estimated median household income in 2005: $134,600 (it was
> $123,022 in 2000)
>
> Woodcliff Lake $134,600
> New Jersey: $61,672
>
>
> Estimated median house/condo value in 2005: $839,300 (it was
> $450,700 in 2000)
> Woodcliff Lake $839,300
> New Jersey: $333,900
Well, you aren't going to like in Woodcliff Lake for $41k, it would
appear. I work not horribly far (maybe 12-13 miles) from there and can
say that there are plenty of affordable places within twenty minutes
though. Meaning that I think that $41k is far from a starvation wage. In
fact, while I earn more than that, I currently live on considerably
less.
Having said that, I do definitely agree with the sentiment that the
salary is ludicrously low for the position described. The idea of it
fulfilling legal obligations certainly does _not_ seem far fetched to
me.
Doug Fuerst
to how to play nice in a sandbox. Nor does he have a clue about much
else unless you are a Wall Street mogul he can bully.
Doug
At 11:57 AM 11/20/2007, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Have you ever worked/stayed in NEw Jersey ?
>
>Because the "Minimum wage" only applies to legal people and how many poeple
>in New Jersey are legal ?
>
>20% maybe.. ok ... lets settle on 25 %..
>
>Note: Spitzer understands the magnitude of the problem but the rest of the
>country has no idea what's going on there.
>snip?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Doug Fuerst
Consultant
BK Associates
Brooklyn, NY
(718) 921-2620 (Office)
(718) 921-0952 (Fax)
(917) 572-7364 (Cell)
do...@bkassociates.net
Gary Green
Lessee...
I am responsible for total client satisfaction
I am the last line of defense for computer problem/programming resolution
I maintain the most critical piece of computing gear the company owns (or out sources as is the case here)
If I screw up, the company can loose more than a million dollars an hour when the mainframe is down
Sounds like a perfect opportunity... Sign me up!
NOT!
On Tue Nov 20 11:30 , Mark Jacobs <mark....@CUSTSERV.COM> sent:
>Chase, John wrote:
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Gary Green
>>>
>>> [ snip ]
>>> BS/BA Degree from an accredited university/college or
>>> equivalent experience 2 years in a support environment
>>> Perform Problem Determination/Prob Source Ident Perform
>>> Problem Mgmt Use RETAIN for Software Support Project Details:
>>> System z z/OS and CICS technical system programming business
>>> as usual support for z/OS production environment. Primary Skill
>>> Set: SW z/OS-S/390, MVS System Programmer Secondary Skill
>>> Sets:Enterprise Systems IBM System z Job Title: Software
>>> Systems Specialist Primary Skills:
>>> RETAIN; Z/OS; MVS Job Industry: Computers Vacancies: 2 Job
>>> City: Woodcliff Lake Job Metro Area: Woodcliff Lake Job
>>> State: NJ Job Country: US Salary:
>>> $20.00/HOURLY To $20.00/HOURLY Hours per Week: 40
>>
>> Nothing less than an outright insult.
>>
>> -jc-
>>
>
>It's starvation wages. 20*40*52 = 41,600.
>
>--
>Mark Jacobs
>Time Customer Service
>Tampa, FL
>------
>
>The primary purpose of the DATA statement is to give names to
>constants; instead of referring to pi as 3.141592653589793 at
>every appearance, the variable PI can be given that value with
>a DATA statement and used instead of the longer form of the constant.
>
>This also simplifies modifying the program, should the value of
>pi change.
>
>- FORTRAN manual for Xerox computers
>
Gary Green
At that salary, 25% of my gross income would go to pay the real estate taxes on my house. And I not unusual. As a state, New Jersey has the highest RE taxes in the country. Or so I read.
On Tue Nov 20 8:51 , Edward Jaffe <edj...@PHOENIXSOFTWARE.COM> sent:
>Mark Jacobs wrote:
>>
>> It's starvation wages. 20*40*52 = 41,600.
>>
>
>Insulting for an IT professional? Yes! A scam to ensure no actual US
>takers? Almost certainly! Starvation wages? No!
>
>Minimum wage in New Jersey is $7.15/hr.
>http://lwd.dol.state.nj.us/labor/wagehour/lawregs/wage_and_hour_laws.html
>
>--
>Edward E Jaffe
>Phoenix Software International, Inc
>5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
>Los Angeles, CA 90045
>310-338-0400 x318
>edj...@phoenixsoftware.com
>http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
Edward Jaffe
> New Jersey minimum wage is $7.15, yes. Buit can one pay their real estate taxes? Wait, on that salary, one cannot afford to own a home.
>
Correct. Minimum wage earners are expected to rent.
Chase, John
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Gary Green
>
> their real estate taxes? Wait, on that salary, one cannot
> afford to own a home.
>
> At that salary, 25% of my gross income would go to pay the
> real estate taxes on my house. And I not unusual. As a
> state, New Jersey has the highest RE taxes in the country.
> Or so I read.
Chicagoland can't be too far behind that. My annual RE taxes are just
shy of $4K on a $180K bungalow in a suburb.....
-jc-
Eric Bielefeld
You're saying 75% to 80% of the people in New Jersey are illegal? I take it
that means illegal immigrants. I find that very hard to believe. Do you
have any studies or data to back that up?
Eric Bielefeld
Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
414-475-7434
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anton Britz" <anton...@GMAIL.COM>
> Hi,
>
> Have you ever worked/stayed in NEw Jersey ?
>
> Because the "Minimum wage" only applies to legal people and how many
> poeple
> in New Jersey are legal ?
>
> 20% maybe.. ok ... lets settle on 25 %..
>
> Note: Spitzer understands the magnitude of the problem but the rest of the
> country has no idea what's going on there.
>
> Anton Britz
----------------------------------------------------------------------
daver++
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Gary Green
> > real estate taxes on my house. And I not unusual. As a
> > state, New Jersey has the highest RE taxes in the country.
> > Or so I read.
> Chicagoland can't be too far behind that. My annual RE taxes are just
> shy of $4K on a $180K bungalow in a suburb.....
MSN ranks NJ as #1,6,1 at , IL as #7,7,6 for median property tax, tax as
a % of home value, and tax as a % of income, respectively.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/Advice/PropertyTaxesWhereDoesYourStateRank.aspx
or
http://tinyurl.com/ysk8on
Edward Jaffe
> Chicagoland can't be too far behind that. My annual RE taxes are just
> shy of $4K on a $180K bungalow in a suburb.....
>
This kind of stuff is easy to look up. No need to waste IBM-MAIN
bandwidth on it.
New Jersey #1
New Hampshire #2
Vermont #3
Connecticut #4
Wisconsin #5
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/Advice/PropertyTaxesWhereDoesYourStateRank.aspx
Regardless of property tax issues, the wage being offered was obviously
intended to dissuade prospective IT professionals from applying -- thus
meeting the minimum requirements for outsourcing.
It would serve them right if an American actually took the job. Someone
looking for an entry level salary.
Of course, if you watched that video on YouTube, you know they have
several other ways of disqualifying qualified domestic applicants.
--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
Los Angeles, CA 90045
310-338-0400 x318
edj...@phoenixsoftware.com
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.
at 07:33 AM, Steve Comstock <st...@TRAINERSFRIEND.COM> said:
>They are
>just fulfilling the legal requirement to advertise the
>positions before hiring foreigners.
ITYM *pretending* to fulfill the legal requirement, which includes paying
prevailing wages.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
daver++
> > Have you ever worked/stayed in NEw Jersey ?
> >
> > Because the "Minimum wage" only applies to legal people and how many
> > poeple
> > in New Jersey are legal ?
> >
> > 20% maybe.. ok ... lets settle on 25 %..
> >
> > Note: Spitzer understands the magnitude of the problem but the rest of the
> > country has no idea what's going on there.
> You're saying 75% to 80% of the people in New Jersey are illegal? I take it
> that means illegal immigrants. I find that very hard to believe. Do you
> have any studies or data to back that up?
I have definitely seen studies that find 80%+ of DAY LABORERS in NY/NJ
are illegal, but not that 80% of the general population is. FWIW.
Gary Green
My almost 10k per year is based on a two story colonial "valued" at 192, but would sell for more of course. This year we were supposed to receive our reassessments and almost everyone would wind up paying more. However, the housing slump put that on hold for a few months while house values settle down.
On Tue Nov 20 12:07 , 'Chase, John' <jch...@USSCO.COM> sent:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Gary Green
>>
>> New Jersey minimum wage is $7.15, yes. Buit can one pay
>> their real estate taxes? Wait, on that salary, one cannot
>> afford to own a home.
>>
>> At that salary, 25% of my gross income would go to pay the
>> real estate taxes on my house. And I not unusual. As a
>> state, New Jersey has the highest RE taxes in the country.
>> Or so I read.
>
>Chicagoland can't be too far behind that. My annual RE taxes are just
>shy of $4K on a $180K bungalow in a suburb.....
>
> -jc-
Eric Chevalier
edgou...@COMCAST.NET (Ed Gould) wrote:
>Doesn't our elected officials have a clue what is going on?
Of course not. All y'all are too busy sitting here bitching in
IBM-Main instead of pounding on your Congressperson or Senator's door.
Tell me Ed, what's the name of *your* Congressional representative,
and when was the last time you picked up the phone and called him/her?
Eric
--
Eric Chevalier E-mail: et...@tulsagrammer.com
Web: www.tulsagrammer.com
Is that call really worth your child's life? HANG UP AND DRIVE!
Gary Green
Back on subject...
What is sad is "my" reading of the posting indicates this position is with IBM at one of their outsourcing sites. IBM, of all people/companies, should know what this position is worth.
And while we all speculate on the posting being nothing more than fulfilling a legal obligation (to then send it overseas), the job posting specifically states that the person hired for this position will be required to travel over night outside of the local area to meet with, and support, the clients.
On Tue Nov 20 10:42 , Edward Jaffe <edj...@PHOENIXSOFTWARE.COM> sent:
>Chase, John wrote:
>> Chicagoland can't be too far behind that. My annual RE taxes are just
>> shy of $4K on a $180K bungalow in a suburb.....
>>
>
>This kind of stuff is easy to look up. No need to waste IBM-MAIN
>bandwidth on it.
>
>New Jersey #1
>New Hampshire #2
>Vermont #3
>Connecticut #4
>Wisconsin #5
>http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/Advice/PropertyTaxesWhereDoesYourStateRank.aspx
>
>Regardless of property tax issues, the wage being offered was obviously
>intended to dissuade prospective IT professionals from applying -- thus
>meeting the minimum requirements for outsourcing.
>
>It would serve them right if an American actually took the job. Someone
>looking for an entry level salary.
>
>Of course, if you watched that video on YouTube, you know they have
>several other ways of disqualifying qualified domestic applicants.
>
>--
>Edward E Jaffe
>Phoenix Software International, Inc
>5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
>Los Angeles, CA 90045
>310-338-0400 x318
>edj...@phoenixsoftware.com
>http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
Anthony Saul Babonas
congressman. One of us might come up with
some lead on a new job.
What's the congressman going to do for you? Find you a job? Convince your
next employer to pay you
what you used to get paid?
Look how well they've dealt with the price of gasoline. We go over there,
take over a couple of countries, control
the flow of crude, and it's still $3.00 a gallon.
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Eric Chevalier
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 1:09 PM
To: IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Are any of us this desperate?
Eric Bielefeld
A couple of good interviews resulted from those leads. Unfortunately, I
still don't have a job. I've even started applying for computer operator
jobs, which I assume would pay maybe half of what I made as a sysprog. Any
good leads out there?
Eric Bielefeld
Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
414-475-7434
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Saul Babonas" <tbab...@INSIGHTBB.COM>
> "Complaining" on IBM-MAIN is better strategy than complaining to your
> congressman. One of us might come up with
> some lead on a new job.
>
> What's the congressman going to do for you? Find you a job? Convince
> your
> next employer to pay you
> what you used to get paid?
>
> Look how well they've dealt with the price of gasoline. We go over there,
> take over a couple of countries, control
> the flow of crude, and it's still $3.00 a gallon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Gould
> On 18 Nov 2007 21:59:37 -0800,
> edgou...@COMCAST.NET (Ed Gould) wrote:
>
>> Doesn't our elected officials have a clue what is going on?
>
> Of course not. All y'all are too busy sitting here bitching in
> IBM-Main instead of pounding on your Congressperson or Senator's door.
>
> Tell me Ed, what's the name of *your* Congressional representative,
> and when was the last time you picked up the phone and called him/her?
>
> Eric
Eric,
Hahaha yesterday, and I regularly call weekly. I also email, before
email it was letter time (yes snail mail) and I even have a lunch
with my state rep at least once a year. Sometimes he is clueless and
sometimes he is on the ball and can actually talk about issues. I am
on a first name basis with my state rep as I campaigned for him 2
years ago. Though my lack of city politics is particularly bad as up
until the last election the alderman was the classic Chicago
politician. I did work on his opponents champaign leading to the
defeat of the Alderman. I email the new alderman about monthly. The
email last time got me a phone call from him personally with a
promise to look into the items I wrote to him about.
I would cut and paste it but it would exceed the 100 line limit of
IBM-Main. The bad part of this whole mess is that the democratic and
the republicans are in a war camp like stance and they constantly
fight and bicker. Nothing gets done. Right now our public
transportation system is threatened because of politics (funding),
its almost like the civil war here in Il.
Ed
Cobe Xu
Gary Green <Ga...@EVERGREEN-SYSTEMS.COM>
Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU>
2007-11-21 01:36
Please respond to
IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-...@BAMA.UA.EDU>
Subject
Re: Are any of us this desperate?
geo....@gmail.com
everything to India & similar countries; gives me a real cozy feeling
knowing all my financial data & the likes are in the hands of some
fool that barely can speak enuf English to understand what the heck is
going on - sounds like great security practice to me - NOT!
On Nov 18, 7:06 pm, mellonb...@YAHOO.COM (Bill Johnson) wrote:
> Last year, our company performed a salary survey in our market near Cleveland. When the results came back, the salary ranges were drastically altered downward by about 15K for systems programmers. Of course all of us balked at the idea that we were worth 15K less than the year before. Only after much wrangling did our management finally cave in and keep the old salary ranges. However, none of us have been promoted in the last 5 years!
>
> B Stephenson
>
> Ed Gould <edgould1...@COMCAST.NET> wrote:
>
> On Nov 18, 2007, at 2:46 AM, Shane wrote:
> ------------SNIP--------------------------
>
> > This business is going to hell ...
>
> > Shane ...
>
> Shane,
>
> I did not notice it thanks for pointing it out. Is that salary even
> close down under?
>
> Ed
>
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