Decouple Accenture's Install-1 from CICS

[Bill George]

(cross posted: CICS-L & IBM-MAIN)

We are in the initial stages of analysis on decoupling Accenture's (originally Anderson Consulting's) Design/1 and Install/1 from our extremely large compilation of CICS applications and are looking for any experienced insights on doing such. Our initial questions would be in the line of; - Can it be done?(of course it can) - If so, was it successfully accomplished in-house or was it contracted out

However, ANY information/insights are appreciated as we begin our research to become a native CICS shop. 

Thanks
Bill



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[Scott Chapman]

You can do just about anything with enough time, money, and code. I'm usually lacking in one or more of those resources.

However, having some experience with Install/1, if you have a non-trivial application written using the online architecture, replacing certainly would a signficant effort, likely resulting in a complete application re-write. For all the complaints about it over the years, it did make a lot of core things a lot easier--the field validation in particular is extensive and all that's wrapped up in the I/1 artifacts not in the application code. A lot of screen flow is similarly not driven by application code but by the design.

We did a deal with Foundation (Accenture branch or spin off or whatever that supported I/1) several years ago to get the source code for I/1. Unfortunately the application team hasn't done much with it sense other than recompile it once or twice (which can be tricky enough in it's own right). While I'm quite happy to no longer be on that application team, had I been when we got the code I would have had some fun digging into it and maybe addressing some long-standing concerns. At the very least I would have tried to clean up the mess of how it all is compiled and linked together.

I'm curious why you want to replace it--my understanding was Foundation was trying to do a similar deal with all their customers to get out of the bussiness of supporting it. Did you not do such a deal and are now stuck with unsupported object code? Or is it that you still are supported but want to stop that payment stream? Or something else?

[George, William@FTB]

Scott

Thanks for the info. I'm currently checking with our system's folks and management to see if there was ever any conversation's with Foundation regarding your question. There has been a tremendous amount of turnover over the years and at this point there is only a hodge podge of broken tid bits of information.

Thanks again
Bill

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[Ed Gould]

On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:56 PM, George, William@FTB wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> SNIP----------------------------------------

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to list...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
> Scott
>
> Thanks for the info. I'm currently checking with our system's
> folks and management to see if there was ever any conversation's
> with Foundation regarding your question. There has been a
> tremendous amount of turnover over the years and at this point
> there is only a hodge podge of broken tid bits of information.
>
> Thanks again
> Bill

Bill,
Just a small opinion here. Sometimes its better to bite the bullet
and do a clean install. That is now you got a good base to play with.
Ed

[George, William@FTB]

>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Ed Gould
>>Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:31 PM
>>To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>Subject: Re: Decouple Accenture's Install-1 from CICS

>On Aug 8, 2012, at 1:56 PM, George, William@FTB wrote:
>> ---------------------------------
>> SNIP----------------------------------------
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
>> email to list...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> Thanks for the info. I'm currently checking with our system's
>> folks and management to see if there was ever any conversation's
>> with Foundation regarding your question. There has been a
>> tremendous amount of turnover over the years and at this point
>> there is only a hodge podge of broken tid bits of information.
>>
>> Thanks again
>> Bill


>Bill,
>Just a small opinion here. Sometimes its better to bite the bullet
>and do a clean install. That is now you got a good base to play with.
>Ed

Ed

Nothing really to clean install that I can think of. If we remove
Design\1 and Install\1 from CiCS we'll have hundreds of programs to
rework to do the navigation logic and CICS calls that Install\1 was (is)
doing in its black box. Not to mention the building of the BMS map
source for the hundreds of maps. Install\1 keeps the map source hidden
within its box also so we would have to use DFHBMSUP to recreate them
which will be a piece of work as the utility does not carry over all the
field names and give them generic names.
Hence, my inquiry to anyone that may have gone through this and hoping
for a better way.

Thanks

Bill

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[Ed Gould]

George:

Find who hired them and let them have a free reign and fire them.

Ed

[Scott Chapman]

I don't know the situation with the OP, but AC / Accenture / Foundation's Install/1 and Design/1 tools were primarily used for new development in the late 80s and early 90s. For the time, the tooling really wasn't that bad and was useful in terms of application development productivity. It wouldn't be how I'd go about developing a new application today, but if you told me it had to be a 3270-based CICS application, I'd still consider the I/1 online architecture. But I'm not sure what other 3270 CICS frameworks are out there. But today, I probably wouldn't develop a new CICS application with a 3270 interface. The I/1 batch architecture always had somewhat limited value.

Now AC / Accenture's business practices are a separate issue. I worked for them for 2 years before getting out primarily because their way of life was not well-aligned with my own values.

Scott

On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 18:55:38 -0500, Ed Gould <edgou...@COMCAST.NET> wrote:

>George:
>
>Find who hired them and let them have a free reign and fire them.
>
>Ed
>

[Fritz Wuehler]

Accenture is one of the worst consulting companies (possibly THE worst)
when it comes to code quality. I personally feel their business practices
are also atrocious and possibly unlawful but most of what I saw was bad, and
I mean really bad code. I can't even use "code" and "quality" in the same
sentence when talking about Accenture. I really don't understand how
companies can deal with them but people seem to be making the same mistakes
over and over.

You will not find comments in most of the garbage they sell. The reason for
that is simple. They don't even have the talent to write bad code. They have
a bunch of MBAs and other idiots doing their projects, so what they usually
do is find bad, cheap code written elsewhere and figure out a way to steal
it from the people who wrote it, under the guise of doing an "enhancement"
or "modernization". Since it's for places that need a lot of help and didn't
pay good programmers either (but are somehow willing to spend hundreds of
millions of dollars to "modernize" or "enhance") the code is littered with
unprofessional comments. Instead of spending the time doing any actual code
cleanup, Accenture pays a few pesos an hour to (barely) warm bodies to edit
and delete all the comments and since the people doing this aren't
programmers they usually break the code while they're at it. Accenture is so
clueless they can't even figure out how to write a program or script to do
this. That is the reason you will usually not see any comments in the code
they sell you, if you are stupid, irresponsible and unlucky enough to buy
it.

The best advice I can give in general about Accenture, and ALL their
affiliates, associates, and anybody who gets a paycheck from them is "don't
go there!" Really, for your own good, don't!

[Nomen Nescio]

[Allodoxaphobia]

On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 23:52:39 +0200, Fritz Wuehler wrote:
> Accenture is one of the worst consulting companies (possibly THE worst)

<-snip->

So much for using an anonymous remailer. snort! chuckle!

[coacha...@gmail.com]

Guys, I know this thread is old but I hope I can get some help. We are currently evaluating an effort to extend our current CIS system by modified the data model of Customer/1. We still use Install/1 and Design/1 and it is suggested that we stay with this model and extend it, not decouple it.. I am concerned about the negative effects of staying with an architecture and technology that is difficult to get experience in the future and the potential of an upgrade to CICS, DB2 or MVS rendering our system useless.

I was wondering what ever happened to the solution discussed in this thread.

Any help is greatly appreicated.

Al

[coacha...@gmail.com]

[coacha...@gmail.com]

[coacha...@gmail.com]

[coacha...@gmail.com]

[rochi...@gmail.com]

Hi , Please share update, is any to above question

[neil....@gmail.com]

Hello,

I am no longer with Accenture, but was at one point the product manager for the INSTALL/1 family of products. Feel free to send me an email or respond here and I will at least be able to help you understand what you have.

Regards,

Neil

[parthi...@gmail.com]

Hi Neil,

Need your help in setting up the Install1 product in new mainframe server.

Thanks & Regards,
Parthiban C

[computer chyck]

I think you're better off with a new/clean/virginal system rather than bringing in holy water and an exorcist for your problem.....

[Matt Olenich]

Not my experience at all.

[Allodoxaphobia]

And just how valuable is your opinion on an ELEVEN YEAR OLD postingg?

[nag reddy]

Good Evening Neil,

Please let me know if there is any documentation on Install/1. I am working on this product.

Thanks,
Naga.

[nag reddy]

Hi Scott Chapman and All,
I am going to work on the Install/1 mainframe application and trying to understand the flow and details of it. It would be grateful if anyone can share information on Install/1 how it used in CICS, compile process etc. Appreciate your response.
Thank you All.

Regards,
Naga.