useless message at IPL
McKown, John
I am wondering if others think it would be a good idea for IBM to make some sort of way to see the error messages on the NIPCONS?
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT
Administrative Services Group
HealthMarkets(r)
9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell
john....@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com
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P S
> wrote:
> I made some changes to by UNIX BPXPRMnn members to test going to a sysplex
> root. I IPL'ed the system. There were problems. But the message from z/OS is
> useless. It tells me to refer to the HARDCOPY LOG. Like somebody has a 3287
> printer any more? Or any printers? (we don't! All print is outsourced.)
> Luckily, being a paranoid, I did not really change my members, I make new
> members and referred to them via a new LOADxx member refering to a new
> IEASYMxx member which referred to a new IEASYSxx member which listed the new
> BPXPRMxx members. I could continue the IPL by replying the old OMVS=
> parameter.
>
> I am wondering if others think it would be a good idea for IBM to make some
> sort of way to see the error messages on the NIPCONS?
>
Naw, error messages are for wimps!
Actually my z/OS knowledge isn't strong enough to understand the details,
but if I'm interpreting correctly:
- you made a change
- it didn't work
- the error told you to look at a non-existent resource
That should indeed be fixed. Reminds me of Postgres, which at least used to
require hacking the startup script to get it to NOT deliberately discard any
startup errors. Because, of course, it never failed for the creators,
apparently...
Gabriel Tully
> I made some changes to by UNIX BPXPRMnn members to test going to a sysplex root. I IPL'ed the system. There were problems.
What messages did you receive? I thought that HARDCOPY LOG referred to
your SYSLOG or OPERLOG.
As in the command 'D C,HC'. Don't you have that on DASD somewhere?
> I am wondering if others think it would be a good idea for IBM to
make > some sort of way to see the error messages on the NIPCONS?
I see NIP messages when I connect to the NIP console specified in the
IODF. We use a third party product to save the console messages so that
they do not roll off to oblivion.
--
Gabe Tully
Scott Rowe
>>> "McKown, John" <John....@HEALTHMARKETS.COM> 1/5/2010 11:51 AM >>>
Administrative Services Group
HealthMarkets(r)
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McKown, John
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> [mailto:IBM-...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Gabriel Tully
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 1:30 PM
> To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: useless message at IPL
>
> McKown, John wrote:
> > I made some changes to by UNIX BPXPRMnn members to test
> going to a sysplex root. I IPL'ed the system. There were problems.
> > But the message from z/OS is useless. It tells me to refer
> to the HARDCOPY LOG. Like somebody has a 3287 printer any
> more? Or any printers? (we don't! All print is outsourced.)...
>
> What messages did you receive? I thought that HARDCOPY
> LOG referred to
> your SYSLOG or OPERLOG.
> As in the command 'D C,HC'. Don't you have that on DASD somewhere?
>
> > I am wondering if others think it would be a good idea for IBM to
> make > some sort of way to see the error messages on the NIPCONS?
>
> I see NIP messages when I connect to the NIP console specified in the
> IODF. We use a third party product to save the console
> messages so that
> they do not roll off to oblivion.
>
>
> --
> Gabe Tully
Yes, it did go to HARDCPY in the CONSOLnn member. Which is set to SYSLOG. Which is a SPOOL dataset. Which really means that these messages are kept somewhere until JES comes up. Which it would not do until I fixed the BPXPRMnn member, or specified a new set. Which is what I did. Then JES came up. The I could get into SDSF to look at the SYSLOG. In the deep past, the HARDCPY could actually be assign to a 3287 printer and the messages seen right then and there. But when NIP was waiting for my reply, I could not see what was wrong so that I could fix it. I guess these messages were written with a WTL macro instead of a WTO. Or something.
--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT
Administrative Services Group
HealthMarkets(r)
9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell
john....@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
W. Kevin Kelley
wrote:
>IIRC, the NIP messages are saved in memory until JES2 comes up and they
can be written to SYSLOG. If you don't get to that point then you should
take a stand alone dump, and you should be able to read them there.
>
Scott,
You are correct -- messages issued early in IPL are buffered until they can be
written to the SYSLOG when JES comes up. The buffers are included in a
dump.
It should be noted that early IPL messages can be written to the HMC system
console in addition to/or instead of the z/OS NIP console. While the HMC
system console has a number of usability problems, it does allow scrolling
backward to see messages.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
Peter Relson
possibly about the messages you eventually found in the hardcopy log
(SYSLOG)?
You wrote
>But when NIP was waiting for my reply, I could not see what was wrong so
that I could fix it
What message was it waiting for you to reply to?
It's almost certain that the messages were written via WTO, not WTL. They
probably specified MCSFLG of HARDCPY. If these were ASAxxxI messages, it's
possible that the invoker did not take advantage of some infrastructure
support that would avoid using hardcopy-only during IPL for precisely the
case you encountered. After IPL, hardcopy-only is used to avoid flooding
the console, since the syslog can be examined. A change to take advantage
of this could likely be made in a future release.
Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design
McKown, John
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> [mailto:IBM-...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Peter Relson
> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:55 AM
> To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: useless message at IPL
>
>
> What message was it waiting for you to reply to?
>
> It's almost certain that the messages were written via WTO,
> not WTL. They
> probably specified MCSFLG of HARDCPY. If these were ASAxxxI
> messages, it's
> possible that the invoker did not take advantage of some
> infrastructure
> support that would avoid using hardcopy-only during IPL for
> precisely the
> case you encountered. After IPL, hardcopy-only is used to
> avoid flooding
> the console, since the syslog can be examined. A change to
> take advantage
> of this could likely be made in a future release.
>
> Peter Relson
> z/OS Core Technology Design
Unfortunately, I don't have the SYSLOG from that IPL. The message being waited upon was one which said that I need to reply with an OMVS= which contained BPXPRMnn members which did not have any syntax errors. I knew the old PARMLIB BPXPRMnn suffix values and so reply with them. This allowed z/OS to continue to IPL. I then looked at the SYSLOG to see what I did wrong and fix it. I then IPL'ed again. If the BPXPRMnn syntax errors had been shown, I could have fixed them on another system and simply replied with same member suffixes and thus avoided a second IPL. OK, not a big deal. However, if I had done an "update in place" of the PARMLIB member, I wouldn't have had a way to continue the IPL. So I would have had to try to figure out the error on another system with no help. I guess what it really means is that I should never update an in-use member of PARMLIB, but copy it to a different suffix, modify it, then point to the modified PARMLIB member.
--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT
Administrative Services Group
HealthMarkets(r)
9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell
john....@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chase, John
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of McKown, John
>
> [ snip ] . . . I guess what it really
> means is that I should never update an in-use member of PARMLIB, but
copy it to a different suffix,
> modify it, then point to the modified PARMLIB member.
That's how a lot of wisdom is acquired -- one "slap" at a time. :-)
-jc-
John Kelly
It should be noted that early IPL messages can be written to the HMC
system console in addition to/or instead of the z/OS NIP console. While
the HMC
system console has a number of usability problems, it does allow scrolling
backward to see messages.
I'll bite, how do you make NIP/IPL messages go to the HMC console in
addition to the NIP console? The only that I've been able to use the HMC
console to trace back messages is if I IPL from it and HARDCOPY only has
SYSLOG and OPERLOG as DEVNUM.
Jack Kelly
202-502-2390 (Office)
McKown, John
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:21 AM
> To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: useless message at IPL
>
> It should be noted that early IPL messages can be written to the HMC
> system console in addition to/or instead of the z/OS NIP
> console. While
> the HMC
> system console has a number of usability problems, it does
> allow scrolling
> backward to see messages.
> </snip>
>
> I'll bite, how do you make NIP/IPL messages go to the HMC console in
> addition to the NIP console? The only that I've been able to
> use the HMC
> console to trace back messages is if I IPL from it and
> HARDCOPY only has
> SYSLOG and OPERLOG as DEVNUM.
>
> Jack Kelly
> 202-502-2390 (Office)
--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT
Administrative Services Group
HealthMarkets(r)
9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell
john....@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Imbriale
changes to BPXPRMxx members.
It checks syntax as well as the existence of HFS and zFS data sets specified
in the catalog. Mount points are not verified.
--
--
Don Imbriale
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 9:04 AM, McKown, John
<John....@healthmarkets.com>wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.
01/05/2010
at 10:51 AM, "McKown, John" <John....@HEALTHMARKETS.COM> said:
>Like somebody has a 3287 printer any more? Or any printers?
Virtual 1403 under z/VM?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
McKown, John
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> [mailto:IBM-...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Don Imbriale
> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:01 AM
> To: IBM-...@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: useless message at IPL
>
> changes to BPXPRMxx members.
>
> It checks syntax as well as the existence of HFS and zFS data
> sets specified
> in the catalog. Mount points are not verified.
> --
> --
> Don Imbriale
Many, many thanks!
--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT
Administrative Services Group
HealthMarkets(r)
9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell
john....@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.
01/05/2010
>Yes, it did go to HARDCPY in the CONSOLnn member. Which is set to SYSLOG.
>Which is a SPOOL dataset. Which really means that these messages are kept
>somewhere until JES comes up.
If it's in a situation where you took a dump, you can retrieve the
messages from MTRACE.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.
01/06/2010
at 08:04 AM, "McKown, John" <John....@HEALTHMARKETS.COM> said:
>I guess what it really means is that I should never update an in-use
>member of PARMLIB, but copy it to a different suffix, modify it, then
>point to the modified PARMLIB member.
Or use the PARMLIB syntax checker. Or both.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barbara Nitz
same problem (a syntax error in bpxprm on a test system that nobody cared
about but that *was* part of a productive parallel sysplex) had brought down
a productive system due to the fact that the message prompting for the new
member is a synchronous message (so XCF signalling won't work anymore).
At that time I investigated how that message asking for the new bpxprm was
issued. It was NOT using ASA services back then! Oh, and you can blame the
syntax checker for bpxprm members on me, too! On the grounds that each and
every parmlib member that can stop an IPL should have a way to be checked
before IPL. IBM allowed me to take a FIN apar for that.
The first time this occured here (years later) I asked everyone changing that
parmlib member to use the syntax checker. The second time it occured, they
got a bashing from me. But from those two occurances I know that the actual
error message (which I believe is now using the ASA services) is issued
hardcopy only, so no amount of HMC config will get you those messages
(unless you have the HMC configured to receive the hardcopy message set -
in which case Health checker will scream). All you'll see on the HMC is the
prompting message. It usually takes either an sadump or backup members to
come up and *see* what the error was. And since this is still NIP, you won't
see those messages in operlog, either, until the prompt is replied to and
NIP/MSI continued.
As for 'seeing' these hardcopy only messages: I believe that the design idea
was that since all bpx statements are usually 'echoed' in hardcopy log, it is
unnecessary to write out an extra message only stating the error. And who
wants to see all bpx statements (and that they're correct) in the 'normal'
cases? Unfortunately that means that no provision was made to just repeat
the syntax error message which would enormously help. (Same is true for all
those IPL-halting NIP messages like errors in lpalst or progxx - the system
comes up somewhat, but chances are that you don't get to the point of
actually seeing operlog/syslog.)
As for how to see these messages on the HMC: Those not in the hardcopy set
can be made to appear if you make sure that no other NIP console can be
found by NIP. The way to do that is either close the emulation that has the
NIP console, or if that is impossible due to the location, configure the channel
path to that (NIP/MCS) console offline from the HMC. That will get you the
console of last resort - the HMC. As far as I am aware, you cannot see NIP
messages on more than one console at a time.
I have no idea if having the HMC configured to receive the hardcopy set (via
consolexx - which isn't read yet at this time) will actually get you these
hardcopy-only NIP messages.
Best regards, Barbara
Clark Morris
Maybe I am off base but if a message is about something that can stop
an IPL, then it should be viewable on the console where the IPL is
taking place. If it isn't and can't be found when IPL quits, I
believe that should be a sev 1 APAR with no FIN. As Barbara relates,
this can cause a production outage.
Barbara Nitz
>an IPL, then it should be viewable on the console where the IPL is
>taking place. If it isn't and can't be found when IPL quits, I
>believe that should be a sev 1 APAR with no FIN.
Agreed completely. But believe me, I was VERY glad that I could get the
syntax checker agreed to! And 15 years ago resources in z/OS development
weren't stretched as thin as they are now.... I am guessing, but I think that
today all IBM would tell you was that this is working (broken) as designed and
to open a 'requirement'. After all, why did you put in a syntax error in the first
place?!?
Regards, Barbara