JES3 job ids

[Barbara Nitz]

This is probably a very basic JES3 question, but I have been unable to find an answer both searching the internet and the JES3 books. Can somebody running JES3 please tell me what the jobid for a TSO user looks like? In JES2 it would be TSUxxxxx or T0xxxxxx. Same for a started task - in JES2 that is STCxxxxx or S0xxxxxx. What does that look like in JES3?

I have the sneaking suspicion that with JES3 the jobid is always prefixed JOBxxxxx, no matter if it is batch job, started task or TSO user. (I even found a JES3 service converting job numbers to job ids that says the job ids should always be presented like this). But then I found an old presentation by Ed Jaffe that contained jobids, and that presentation was showing +MASTER+ as JOBxxxxx (JES2 considers +master+ STCxxxxx). The same presentation also had something that looked like a mixture of S0xxxxxx and J0xxxxxx, but that is taken completely out of context, so I am unsure.

What does a TSO user jobid look like in JES3, and will it always look like this?

Thanks, Barbara

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[Werner Kuehnel]

On our JES3 system (z/OS 1.13) the jobid for TSO users is

TSUnnnnn

for inactive (just output on spool) and active users. nnnnn are 5 digits.
Haven't seen anything else in the past.

Werner Kuehnel

[Klaus Stanislawiak]

On all the JES3 systems that I have seen (since OS/390 V2R5) all jobids have always looked like JOBxxxxx for jobs, STCs and TSUs.
The entries S0xxxxxx and J0xxxxxx in the presentation may originate from STCs and TSUs that were running under a secondary JES2 on the same system.
But Ed Jaffe will probably let us know if he has a different explanation.

Regards, Klaus

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:50:06 -0500, Klaus Stanislawiak wrote:

>On all the JES3 systems that I have seen (since OS/390 V2R5) all jobids have always looked like JOBxxxxx for jobs, STCs and TSUs.
>The entries S0xxxxxx and J0xxxxxx in the presentation may originate from STCs and TSUs that were running under a secondary JES2 on the same system.
>But Ed Jaffe will probably let us know if he has a different explanation.
>

I'm familiar only with JES2. But ISTR that when JES2 went from a 4-digit numeric
suffix to 5 (does anyone remember the old format?), it was made an installation
option whether the numeric part reset at 100,000 or at 10,000. Our site chose
10,000 because we were not suffering a name space constraint and there was some
compatibility concern. (Terse format of operator commands?) So perhaps the
format is a configurable parameter.

(I ranted lately, "I hate options!" And this is such a case where I'd value
synchronic consistency above diachronic compatibility.)

-- gil

[Barbara Nitz]

>On all the JES3 systems that I have seen (since OS/390 V2R5) all jobids have always looked like JOBxxxxx for jobs, STCs and TSUs.
>The entries S0xxxxxx and J0xxxxxx in the presentation may originate from STCs and TSUs that were running under a secondary JES2 on the same system.
>But Ed Jaffe will probably let us know if he has a different explanation.

So that probably means that it can be configured somewhere if JES3 jobids can start with JOB, STC and TSU or not, since we now have one JES3 installation that has jobids starting TSU and at least one where all jobids start with JOB.

So yes, I am also waiting for Ed to chime in. I have never worked on a JES3 system, either.

Thanks, Barbara

[Norman.Hollander]

But what happens if you tell JES you can have 999,999 jobs in the system, rather than 99,999?
No place to fill in the 3-character descriptor. Reduced to J, S, and T. Works that way in JES2.

[Klaus Stanislawiak]

This is what I found in the "Glossary" of a back level documentation (z/OS V1R4.0 JES3 Introduction, SA22-7551-02):

> job ID. An 8-character identifier used by JES3 to
> uniquely identify any job in a JES3 complex at any
> moment in time. The job identifier is of the form
> "JOBnnnnn" where nnnnn is the job number with the
> appropriate number of leading zeroes, if the job number
> is 99,999 or less. Otherwise, the job identifier is of the
> form "Jnnnnnnn", where nnnnnnn is the job number
> with the appropriate number of leading zeroes.

BTW, there is also a JES3-L list server where more JES3 customers are registered.
Unfortunately I am currently not able to log on there for whatever reason ...

Regards, Klaus

[Ed Finnell]

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In a message dated 7/24/2014 12:58:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

klaus.sta...@SOFTWAREAG.COM writes:

BTW, there is also a JES3-L list server where more JES3 customers are
registered.
Unfortunately I am currently not able to log on there for whatever reason

[Ed Finnell]

I did find in status.uga.edu that they are experiencing LDAP problems which
may affect logins.

[Lizette Koehler]

This seemed to work for me

https://listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=jes3-l&A=1


Lizette

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Ed Finnell
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:04 PM
> To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: JES3 job ids
>

[Klaus Stanislawiak]

Now back with access to JES3-L, I found an old entry by Ed Jaffe that might explain why you have seen "S0xxxxxx and J0xxxxxx" job IDs in that presentation. I hope Ed does not mind if I quote him from there:

On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:46:06 -0700 Edward E. Jaffe said:
> In JES3, you can't rely on the job ID to tell you the job type. All job
> IDs always appear as JOBxxxxx (or Jxxxxxxx in z/OS V1R2), whether a job,
> started task, or TSO user. (E)JES provides a feature to "merge" the job
> type and job ID into a single displayable job ID column.

Regards, Klaus

[Barbara Nitz]

Thanks so much, Klaus! The things you've cited fit the note on the JES3 service that I had found. I had gotten the impression that JES3 primarily uses job numbers and that it is up to the product presenting information to get a jobid and present it one way or another.

Barbara

[Barry Merrill]

For what it's worth, here is the MXG logic to determine the
Type of Task and JESNR for both JES2 and JES3:

/* COPYRIGHT (C) 2002,2013 MERRILL CONSULTANTS, DALLAS, TEXAS, USA */
/* LAST UPDATED: JUN 4, 2013. CHANGE 31.106. */
/* THIS ROUTINE EXPECTS JCTJOBID AND JOB AS 8-BYTE CHARACTERS, */
/* AND SUBSYS AS A 4-BYTE CHARACTER AS INPUT. */

/* IT CREATES THE 4-BYTE CHARACTER TYPETASK AND NUMERIC JESNR */

TYPETASK=' ';
JESNR=.;
IF SUBSYS=' ' THEN SUBSYS=' '; /*EARLY ASIDS,TMNT */
IF JCTJOBID=JOB OR (JCTJOBID LE ' ' AND SUBSYS='STC') THEN DO;
JESNR=.;
TYPETASK='STC';
END;
ELSE DO;
IF INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,2,7),?? 7.) GT . THEN DO;
JESNR=INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,2,7),?? 7.);
TYPETASK=SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,1,1);
END;
ELSE IF INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,3,6),?? 6.) GT . THEN DO;
JESNR=INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,3,6),?? 6.);
TYPETASK=SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,1,2);
END;
ELSE IF INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,4,5),?? 5.) GT . THEN DO;
JESNR=INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,4,5),?? 5.);
TYPETASK=SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,1,3);
END;
ELSE IF INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,5,4),?? 4.) GT . THEN DO;
JESNR=INPUT(SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,5,4),?? 4.);
TYPETASK=SUBSTR(JCTJOBID,1,4);
END;
IF SUBSYS='TCP ' THEN TYPETASK='TCP ';
ELSE IF SUBSYS='PSF ' THEN TYPETASK='PSF ';
ELSE IF SUBSYS='VPS ' THEN TYPETASK='VPS ';
ELSE IF TYPETASK=:'J' THEN DO;
IF SUBSYS='TSO ' THEN TYPETASK='TSU ';
ELSE IF SUBSYS='JES2' THEN TYPETASK='JOB ';
ELSE IF SUBSYS='JES3' THEN TYPETASK='JOB ';
ELSE IF SUBSYS='STC ' THEN TYPETASK='STC ';
ELSE IF SUBSYS='OMVS' THEN TYPETASK='OMVS';
ELSE TYPETASK='JOB ';
END;
ELSE IF TYPETASK=:'O' OR SUBSYS='OMVS' THEN TYPETASK='OMVS';
ELSE IF TYPETASK=:'S' THEN TYPETASK='STC ';
ELSE IF TYPETASK=:'A' THEN TYPETASK=SUBSYS;
ELSE IF TYPETASK=:'T' THEN TYPETASK='TSU ';
ELSE IF TYPETASK=:'I' AND SUBSYS='STC' THEN TYPETASK='STC ';
ELSE DO;
IF SUBSYS='STC ' THEN TYPETASK='STC ';
ELSE IF SUBSYS='TSO ' THEN TYPETASK='TSU ';
ELSE IF SUBSYS='JES2' THEN TYPETASK='JOB ';
ELSE IF SUBSYS='JES3' THEN TYPETASK='JOB ';
ELSE IF SUBSYS='STC ' THEN TYPETASK='STC ';
ELSE IF SUBSYS='OMVS' THEN TYPETASK='OMVS';
ELSE DO;
IF PRODUCT=' ' THEN PRODUCT=' ';;
IF SUBTYPE=. THEN SUBTYPE=.;
IF PRODUCT='PERFMON ' AND SUBTYPE=3 THEN DO;
TYPETASK='STC';
SUBSYS='PERFMON';
END;
END;
END;
IF TYPETASK=' ' THEN DO;
BADVJESN+1;
IF BADVJESN LE 2 THEN
PUT '*** WARNING - TYPETASK NOT DECODED: ' / +10
_N_= SYSTEM= ID= SUBTYPE= JOB=
JCTJOBID= SUBSYS= TYPETASK= JESNR= ;
END;
END;
/* END OF MEMBER VGETJESN - GET JESNR AND TYPETASK FROM JCTJOBID */


Herbert W. “Barry” Merrill, PhD
President-Programmer
MXG Software
Merrill Consultants
10717 Cromwell Drive
Dallas, TX 75229
ba...@mxg.com

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-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Klaus Stanislawiak
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 12:50 AM
To: IBM-...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JES3 job ids

[Ed Jaffe]

On 7/24/2014 10:50 PM, Klaus Stanislawiak wrote:
> Now back with access to JES3-L, I found an old entry by Ed Jaffe that might explain why you have seen "S0xxxxxx and J0xxxxxx" job IDs in that presentation. I hope Ed does not mind if I quote him from there:
>
> On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:46:06 -0700 Edward E. Jaffe said:
>> In JES3, you can't rely on the job ID to tell you the job type. All job
>> IDs always appear as JOBxxxxx (or Jxxxxxxx in z/OS V1R2), whether a job,
>> started task, or TSO user. (E)JES provides a feature to "merge" the job
>> type and job ID into a single displayable job ID column.

Sorry. I got a few days behind on my IBM-MAIN reading...

Klaus is quite correct (thank you for acting as my proxy, Sir). :)

The jobid embedded within MVS and JES control blocks will always contain
JOBnnnnn or Jnnnnnnn in JES3.

Another difference between JES2 and JES3 affecting this discussion is
the way the first three characters of the jobid are formatted. JES2 will
format 'J00' for *all* job numbers if the maximum-allowable job number
is configured above 64K. In JES3, the first three characters will
contain the value 'JOB' if the job number is small enough to fit, no
matter how high the maximum-allowable job number is configured.

--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:08:15 -0700, Ed Jaffe wrote:
>
>Another difference between JES2 and JES3 affecting this discussion is
>the way the first three characters of the jobid are formatted. JES2 will
>format 'J00' for *all* job numbers if the maximum-allowable job number
>is configured above 64K. In JES3, the first three characters will
>contain the value 'JOB' if the job number is small enough to fit, no
>matter how high the maximum-allowable job number is configured.
>

They didn't *need* to make it inconsistent. Perhaps JES3 was motivated
to maintain diachronic compatibility with existing art. But that works only
until the 100,001st job is submitted and all that existing art breaks in a
rude surprise.

Simpler is better.

Hmmm... for jobs up to 99999, will the first two characters be
juliet-zero or juliet-oscar?

-- gil

[Ed Jaffe]

On 7/27/2014 6:59 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> They didn't *need* to make it inconsistent. Perhaps JES3 was motivated
> to maintain diachronic compatibility with existing art. But that works only
> until the 100,001st job is submitted and all that existing art breaks in a
> rude surprise.
>
> Simpler is better.

JES3's jobid formatting is far simpler: 100% predictable, given only the
job number as input, and results in no inconsistencies.

JES2's jobid formatting requires checkpoint-resident metadata in order
to know how a job number should be formatted. In addition, formatting
inconsistencies will arise immediately, once the maximum job number
parameter is raised above 64K, since existing jobids on SPOOL <64K
continue to be formatted as JOBnnnnn side-by-side with new jobs in the
same <64K range formatted as J00nnnnn.

Having said all that, trivial checking of jobid+1 for a numeric value is
all that's needed to know which technique has been used in all cases and
that's exactly what (E)JES does when such knowledge is required.

> Hmmm... for jobs up to 99999, will the first two characters be
> juliet-zero or juliet-oscar?

I wrote 'J00' in my previous post because that is what's used: zero-zero.

--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

[Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.]

In <3119503832839520.WA...@listserv.ua.edu>, on
07/27/2014
at 08:59 AM, Paul Gilmartin

<0000000433f0781...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> said:

>They didn't *need* to make it inconsistent.

No, but is there a business case for developing the infrastructure to
keep such things consistent? It's neither automatic nor free.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 08:44:08 -0400, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:

> on 07/27/2014 at 08:59 AM, Paul Gilmartin said:
>
>>They didn't *need* to make it inconsistent.
>
>No, but is there a business case for developing the infrastructure to
>keep such things consistent? It's neither automatic nor free.
>

Errr... Reusable code?

-- gil

[Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.]

In <1151288736361378.WA...@listserv.ua.edu>, on
07/29/2014
at 01:01 AM, Paul Gilmartin

<0000000433f0781...@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> said:

>On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 08:44:08 -0400, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:

>> on 07/27/2014 at 08:59 AM, Paul Gilmartin said:
>>
>>>They didn't *need* to make it inconsistent.
>>
>>No, but is there a business case for developing the infrastructure to
>>keep such things consistent? It's neither automatic nor free.
>>
>Errr... Reusable code?

Developing subroutines usable from both JES2 and JES3 is a different
issue from developing and enforcing standards. The standards by
themselves would not lead to reusable code.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html>
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)