Xwrika Ydata: TURKEY/GREECE (L-ONLY) By AM
Abdullah the Butcher
>
>>WESTERN ANALYSTS SAY IT IS UNLIKELY THAT GREECE WOULD
>>ACTUALLY RISK GOING TO WAR WITH TURKEY. WITH 700-THOUSAND MEN
>>UNDER ARMS, TURKEY HAS THE SECOND LARGEST ARMY IN NATO AND >COULD
>>EASILY DEFEAT GREECE,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Oh, please don't scare me this way, I am shitting my pants. Esu kala ta les
>jerk off go take a hike asshole. If Turkey is so tough why don't they show
>us just how tough they are. Their jets cross into Greek air space now and
>then but as soon as they see the Greek jets coming straight for them they
>run back into Turkey like the POUTANES that they are. Seven hundred thousand
>means nothing have you ever heard of the saying quality not quantity???
Re Giwrgaki emas ti mas ta les etsi; Nomizeis pws se diabazeis o typas tou
VOA kai tou les "jerk off go take a hike asshole"; Oso gia tis istories
twn anaxaitisewn panw apo to Aigaio na pw pws tis exw akousei ki egw apo
gnwstous dikwn mou anthrwpwn pou bebaia tous pisteyan apolyta - kai giati
oxi. Ap' tin alli erxomenos edw anakalypsa pws kai oi Tourkoi paromoies
istories lene gia tous dikous tous pilotous. Twra poios exei pio poly
dikio kai pou einai i alitheia kai pou o mythos mono oi idioi oi pilotoi
kseroun - alla epitrepetai na to lene pio eksw; Oso gia to "quality not
quantity" anamenw ki apo esena mia apantisi sto themeliwdes erwtima pou
eixe thesei o Faylos kapote: Poios einai kalyteros (kai pio 'moboros
fantaros - o mesos Ellinas kaloperasakias (Aytokinisi, gipedo kai baraki)
i o mesos Tourkos imimathis i kai amathis agrotis apo tin Kappadokia;
Skepsou posous apo tous prwtous exoume emeis kai posous apo tous deyterous
ekeinoi. Kai en katakleidi, oxi de symfwnw pws tha einai poly eykolo gia
tin Tourkia na mas nikisei gia allous logous pou den exoun na kanoun me
andreies kai alla afirimena. Ap' tin alli na tin nikisoume (en antithesei
me apokrousoume) emeis akoma pio dyskolo to blepw.
>Greece should extend it's territorial waters without any hesitation just to
>call their bluff then we'll really know how tough they are with their
>constant threats all the time these pricks are full of hot air and nothing
>else.
>I am sick and tired of these fuckin cat and mouse games somebody should just
>blow one of the fuckers out of the sky just to teach them a lesson.
Mono pou tha prepei na tous petyxoume otan parabiazoun ta 6 milia tou
enaeriou xwrou mas kai oxi ta 10 opws kanoun synithws kai ayto einai
pio dyskolo. Blepeis ta 10 milia den ta anagnwrizei kanenas ektos apo
emas gi' ayto kai ta parabiazoun kai oi Amerikanoi kai oi loipoi symmaxoi
kata ti diarkeia NATOikwn askisewn.
Abdul
Abdullah the Butcher
>
>Diladi ti exeis akousei apo dika sou atoma?? Gia ksekatharise ti evvois edo
>giati de se katalabaino. Ego oti exw akousei einai apo to ellhniko tupo kai
>sumfona me autous pantote ta tourkika jets ta bazoune sta podia molis
>blepoun ta ellinika maxitika na tous kanoun scramble. Twra ean leei psemata
>o ellinikos tupos....
Kai fysika mporei na leei kai leei otan xreiastei psemmata o ellinikos opws
kai kathe allos typos - alimono ayto to syndromo "fylis aggelwn" pou exoume.
>Sumfono omws mazi sou oti sigoura tha einai merika gegonota pou mono oi
>idioi oi pilotoi ta kseroun metaxi tous.
Loipon na ksekatharizw - apo istories pou exw akousei apo deytero xeri
(pilotos->steno filo/i i syggeni -> emena) fainetai pws synithws exoume
to panw xeri stis anaxaitiseis. Kai bebaia oi efimerides kai ta periodika
dinoun tin idia entypwsi. Milwntas me Tourkous omws diapistwsa pws kai aytoi
nomizoun akribws ta idia (yperoxi klp.) gia tous dikous tous pilotous kai
pws stis eikonikes aeromaxies kata tis anaxaitiseis epikratoun ta aeroplana
tous kai meta feygoun san kyrioi. Kai opws exoume emeis tous mythous pws
oi Ellines einai oi kalyteroi pilotoi tou kosmou meta tous Israilinous
(ektos ki an einai kaneis Xrysaygitis opote einai oi kalyteroi aplws :-)
etsi exoun ki aytoi tous antistoixous dikous tous. Profanws kapou einai
i alitheia kai kapou to psemma, isws kai kapou endiamesa. Alla bebaia
episis profanws o eyrys plithysmos, diladi emeis, den prepei gia logous
"ithikou" na mathainei tipota perissotero ap' o,ti emfanizei ti dikia tou
pleyra ws tin kalyteri.
>>Oso gia to "quality not quantity" anamenw ki apo esena mia apantisi sto
> themeliwdes erwtima pou eixe thesei o Faylos kapote: Poios einai kalyteros
>(kai pio >'moboros fantaros - o mesos Ellinas kaloperasakias (Aytokinisi,
>gipedo kai baraki)
>>i o mesos Tourkos imimathis i kai amathis agrotis apo tin Kappadokia;
>>Skepsou posous apo tous prwtous exoume emeis kai posous apo tous deyterous
>>ekeinoi. Kai en katakleidi, oxi de symfwnw pws tha einai poly eykolo gia
>>tin Tourkia na mas nikisei gia allous logous pou den exoun na kanoun me
>>andreies kai alla afirimena.
>
>Mporei na xereis to kati parapano apo mena giati exeis gennithi, megalosi
>kai isws upertisei sthn Ellada. Egw proti fora omws akouo oti o Ellinas
>fantaros einai "kaloperasakias." Agorazw "Ptisi kai Diastima" sunexeia oute
>ligo oute polu exw mia idea tis ikanotites tou ellina fantarou kai to
>elliniko strato. Auti i kaloperasi pou les esu egw tin thewro oti i
>ellhniki kubernisi kanei aplws kanei look after the boys. Epideis pane se
>kana skuladiko kapou-kapou kai ta spane siga tin "kaloperasi". Allwste ama
Prwton milousa gia tin kaloperasi tou mesou Ellina logw epipedou diabiwsis
se sxesi me ton poly ftwxotero meso Tourko. An nomizeis pws ayti den kanei
pio malthakous tous anthrwpous oson afora ta stratiwtika zitimata eisai
nomizw poly afelis. Oso gia tin "Ptisi" mia kai tin aneferes tha diabases
prin apo kanena xrono nomizw ena gramma sti stili tis allilografias me
titlo "Gramma apo ena Mayroskoufi" an thymamai kala pou dinei mia tragiki
eikona gia tis ikanotites kai tin etoimotita/ekpaideysi twn mayroskoufidwn
s' ena Aigaiopelagitiko nisi. Alla kai alla grammata milan gia kakes stoles
klp. - se arthra tou to periodiko exei thiksei polles fores pws se sxesi me
tis Tourkikes eidikes dynameis oi dikes mas einai pisw se themata eksoplismou
kai bebai to thema tis anadiorganwsis tou stratou se epipedo taksiarxiwn gia
pio eyelikto sxima sto opoio oi Tourkoi einai pio mprosta.
>ola auta ta luxuries?? Prostheto kai to allo - Ti einai to pragma pou kanei
>ton Tourko agroti apo tin Kappadokia Johnny Rambo kai ton ellina
>shitkicker??? Kai poios sou eipe oti einai pio moboros ap ton ellina. Min
>stenahoriese o ellinas ama theli can be an even worse bad ass!!! Apo oti
Ma twra sobarologeis;- o mesos Ellinas menei stin poli kai den exei sfaksei
oute kotopoulo sti zwi tou - o mesos Tourkos einai amorfwtos (kai ara pio
eykolo na fanatistei) agrotis.
>mou exoun pei ta xaderfia mou stin ellada (kai o pateras mou otan autos
>uperetouse) o stratos mas einai very disciplined, very well equiped kai
>panta se etoimotita kai mporei na ta balei me opoion kerata stin perioxi
>auti!!!
Ama arxisoume na syzitame sto epipedo tou ti mas exoun pei oi dikoi mas
(pou eksartatai kai apo ton bathmo ston opoio pisteyan ti tous elegan
oi karabanades apo panw tous) na ti dialysoume ti syzitisi.
>>Ap' tin alli na tin nikisoume (en antithesei me apokrousoume) emeis akoma
>pio >dyskolo to blepw.
>
>"Don't count your chickens before they're hacthed" Abdoulako mou this
>remains to be seen!!!!
Omws kati atoma pou oneireyontai "ntou stin Poli" san ton Isko (e re megale
elega pote tha to petakseis ki esy) mporei na ta kanoun omeletta t' ayga
prin akoma bgoun ta poulakia.
Abdul
Giannakenas, George
>Re Giwrgaki emas ti mas ta les etsi; Nomizeis pws se diabazeis o typas tou
>VOA kai tou les "jerk off go take a hike asshole";
I know this. I was just letting off a bit of steam!!
>Oso gia tis istories twn anaxaitisewn panw apo to Aigaio na pw pws tis exw
akousei >ki egw apo gnwstous dikwn mou anthrwpwn pou bebaia tous pisteyan
apolyta - kai >giati oxi. Ap' tin alli erxomenos edw anakalypsa pws kai oi
Tourkoi paromoies
>istories lene gia tous dikous tous pilotous. Twra poios exei pio poly
>dikio kai pou einai i alitheia kai pou o mythos mono oi idioi oi pilotoi
>kseroun - alla epitrepetai na to lene pio eksw;
Diladi ti exeis akousei apo dika sou atoma?? Gia ksekatharise ti evvois edo
giati de se katalabaino. Ego oti exw akousei einai apo to ellhniko tupo kai
sumfona me autous pantote ta tourkika jets ta bazoune sta podia molis
blepoun ta ellinika maxitika na tous kanoun scramble. Twra ean leei psemata
o ellinikos tupos....
Sumfono omws mazi sou oti sigoura tha einai merika gegonota pou mono oi
idioi oi pilotoi ta kseroun metaxi tous.
>Oso gia to "quality not quantity" anamenw ki apo esena mia apantisi sto
themeliwdes erwtima pou eixe thesei o Faylos kapote: Poios einai kalyteros
(kai pio >'moboros fantaros - o mesos Ellinas kaloperasakias (Aytokinisi,
gipedo kai baraki)
>i o mesos Tourkos imimathis i kai amathis agrotis apo tin Kappadokia;
>Skepsou posous apo tous prwtous exoume emeis kai posous apo tous deyterous
>ekeinoi. Kai en katakleidi, oxi de symfwnw pws tha einai poly eykolo gia
>tin Tourkia na mas nikisei gia allous logous pou den exoun na kanoun me
>andreies kai alla afirimena.
Mporei na xereis to kati parapano apo mena giati exeis gennithi, megalosi
kai isws upertisei sthn Ellada. Egw proti fora omws akouo oti o Ellinas
fantaros einai "kaloperasakias." Agorazw "Ptisi kai Diastima" sunexeia oute
ligo oute polu exw mia idea tis ikanotites tou ellina fantarou kai to
elliniko strato. Auti i kaloperasi pou les esu egw tin thewro oti i
ellhniki kubernisi kanei aplws kanei look after the boys. Epideis pane se
kana skuladiko kapou-kapou kai ta spane siga tin "kaloperasi". Allwste ama
to pame etsi pws to les esu o American marine pou exei ta panta stin
diathesi tou (he makes the greek soldier look like a starving ethiopian in
terms of luxuries) einai anaxios kai den einai kalos stratiotis epideis exei
ola auta ta luxuries?? Prostheto kai to allo - Ti einai to pragma pou kanei
ton Tourko agroti apo tin Kappadokia Johnny Rambo kai ton ellina
shitkicker??? Kai poios sou eipe oti einai pio moboros ap ton ellina. Min
stenahoriese o ellinas ama theli can be an even worse bad ass!!! Apo oti
mou exoun pei ta xaderfia mou stin ellada (kai o pateras mou otan autos
uperetouse) o stratos mas einai very disciplined, very well equiped kai
panta se etoimotita kai mporei na ta balei me opoion kerata stin perioxi
auti!!!
>Ap' tin alli na tin nikisoume (en antithesei me apokrousoume) emeis akoma
pio >dyskolo to blepw.
"Don't count your chickens before they're hacthed" Abdoulako mou this
remains to be seen!!!!
>Mono pou tha prepei na tous petyxoume otan parabiazoun ta 6 milia tou
>enaeriou xwrou mas kai oxi ta 10 opws kanoun synithws kai ayto einai
>pio dyskolo. Blepeis ta 10 milia den ta anagnwrizei kanenas ektos apo
>emas gi' ayto kai ta parabiazoun kai oi Amerikanoi kai oi loipoi symmaxoi
>kata ti diarkeia NATOikwn askisewn.
Abdul
Estw sta 6. Egw ena tourkiko maxitiko thelo na katebasoun oi pilotoi mas
just so we can call their bluff na doume ti tha mas kanoun (tha mas klasoun
t' arxideia) because as I said in my last letter I am sick and tired of
their threats and intimidation and this whole cat and mouse game!!! Nomizw
ean kaname kati tetoio den tha parabiazane to xwro mas allo opws to kanoun
twra kai den tha thewrousan to xwro mas an open door for them to come in any
time they want!!! Tha kseran oti we mean business kai den tha mas thewrousan
malkes.
George,Melbourne.
Vasilios Pierre Iskos
> >Posted on 1 Jun 1995 at 22:40:55 by Giannakenas, George
> >
> >Diladi ti exeis akousei apo dika sou atoma?? Gia ksekatharise ti evvois edo
> >giati de se katalabaino. Ego oti exw akousei einai apo to ellhniko tupo kai
> >sumfona me autous pantote ta tourkika jets ta bazoune sta podia molis
> >blepoun ta ellinika maxitika na tous kanoun scramble. Twra ean leei psemata
> >o ellinikos tupos....
>
> Kai fysika mporei na leei kai leei otan xreiastei psemmata o ellinikos opws
> kai kathe allos typos - alimono ayto to syndromo "fylis aggelwn" pou exoume.
>
### Nai re Abdullah, psemmata eipe o ellhnikos typos gia thn kataripsei
tou piloutou Sialma apo Tourkika f-16 se aeromaxia prin tria xronnia,
psemmata lene kai oi katoikoi twn akrtikwn nhsiwn otan akoune kai
sfurizoun panw apo ta kefalia tous ta Tourkika smhnoi, oloi psemmata lene
ektos apo sena.
> >Sumfono omws mazi sou oti sigoura tha einai merika gegonota pou mono oi
> >idioi oi pilotoi ta kseroun metaxi tous.
>
> Loipon na ksekatharizw - apo istories pou exw akousei apo deytero xeri
> (pilotos->steno filo/i i syggeni -> emena) fainetai pws synithws exoume
> to panw xeri stis anaxaitiseis. Kai bebaia oi efimerides kai ta periodika
> dinoun tin idia entypwsi. Milwntas me Tourkous omws diapistwsa pws kai aytoi
> nomizoun akribws ta idia (yperoxi klp.) gia tous dikous tous pilotous kai
> pws stis eikonikes aeromaxies kata tis anaxaitiseis epikratoun ta aeroplana
> tous kai meta feygoun san kyrioi. Kai opws exoume emeis tous mythous pws
> oi Ellines einai oi kalyteroi pilotoi tou kosmou meta tous Israilinous
> (ektos ki an einai kaneis Xrysaygitis opote einai oi kalyteroi aplws :-)
> etsi exoun ki aytoi tous antistoixous dikous tous. Profanws kapou einai
> i alitheia kai kapou to psemma, isws kai kapou endiamesa. Alla bebaia
> episis profanws o eyrys plithysmos, diladi emeis, den prepei gia logous
> "ithikou" na mathainei tipota perissotero ap' o,ti emfanizei ti dikia tou
> pleyra ws tin kalyteri.
>
### Prwton, kaluteroi pilotoi ston kosmo einai oi Amerikanoi meta oi
Israilinoi kai meta emeis. Kai xereis giati file Abdul, giati oi pilotoi
autwn twn xwrwn pragamatopoioun tis pio duskoles askhseis, me alla logia
ta spane ta maxhthika tous, tous allazoun ton patera sta G's. Kapote
eixe pei enas amerikanos smhnarxos ston patera mou, " it is always a
challenge to fly against the Greeks in aerial combat". Xaraktiristika,
to 1982 sto New Mexico eixan ginei 'agwnes' metaxu pilotwn diaforwn
xwrwn. Oi Tourkoi esteilan 26 apo tous kaluterous pilotous tous, oi
ellhnes esteilan exi. Apo tous 26 Tourkous kanenas den perase pera apo to
stadio
ths proetimasias, enw oi ellhnes oxi mono perasan kai oi exi alla, phrame
thn prwth, trith, tetarth, ekth, kai dekath thesh. H Ellada se plhroforo
einai h monh xwra me exairesh ths HPA pou exoun to elafru bombardistiko -
A7 Corsair, tou opoiou o xeirismos einai exairetika duskolos. AUth den
einai sumptwsh. Telos polles fores ellhnika FANTOM F-4 (ax athanata
Fantom) erxontai antimetwpa me Tourkika F-16. Parolo pou ta F-16 einai
pio grhgora pio euelikta kai exoun megalutero pedio drashs, ta ellhnika
PHANTOM kerdizoun stis perissoteres anaxaithseis apo tous pio empeirous
kai tsamboukalhdes ellhnes pilotous.
> >>Oso gia to "quality not quantity" anamenw ki apo esena mia apantisi sto
> > themeliwdes erwtima pou eixe thesei o Faylos kapote: Poios einai kalyteros
> >(kai pio >'moboros fantaros - o mesos Ellinas kaloperasakias (Aytokinisi,
> >gipedo kai baraki)
> >>i o mesos Tourkos imimathis i kai amathis agrotis apo tin Kappadokia;
> >>Skepsou posous apo tous prwtous exoume emeis kai posous apo tous deyterous
> >>ekeinoi. Kai en katakleidi, oxi de symfwnw pws tha einai poly eykolo gia
> >>tin Tourkia na mas nikisei gia allous logous pou den exoun na kanoun me
> >>andreies kai alla afirimena.
> >
### Profanws den exeis katebei pote ghpedo na deis ti xulo peftei. Den
sou milaw gia A' kathgoria kai malakies, phgaine se ghpedo A' kai B'
kathgorias lekanopediou Attikhs na deis ti fatses mazeuontai. Otan
epaiza gia ton Astera Zwgrafou mas thn eixe pesei sto Kalamaki mia gria
me ena lostari kai eidame ton Xristo fantaro kai deka epistrateuseis.
Twra gia tis loules pou mazeuontai sta diafora Mercedes, Bouzios kai den
xerw egw ti allo, paw paso, alla phgaine agorina ekei pou peftoun oi
parragelies kai pes tous flwrous na deis gia pote tha sou kanoun prwktikh
peritomh.
> >Mporei na xereis to kati parapano apo mena giati exeis gennithi, megalosi
> >kai isws upertisei sthn Ellada. Egw proti fora omws akouo oti o Ellinas
> >fantaros einai "kaloperasakias." Agorazw "Ptisi kai Diastima" sunexeia oute
> >ligo oute polu exw mia idea tis ikanotites tou ellina fantarou kai to
> >elliniko strato. Auti i kaloperasi pou les esu egw tin thewro oti i
> >ellhniki kubernisi kanei aplws kanei look after the boys. Epideis pane se
> >kana skuladiko kapou-kapou kai ta spane siga tin "kaloperasi". Allwste ama
>
> Prwton milousa gia tin kaloperasi tou mesou Ellina logw epipedou diabiwsis
> se sxesi me ton poly ftwxotero meso Tourko. An nomizeis pws ayti den kanei
> pio malthakous tous anthrwpous oson afora ta stratiwtika zitimata eisai
> nomizw poly afelis. Oso gia tin "Ptisi" mia kai tin aneferes tha diabases
> prin apo kanena xrono nomizw ena gramma sti stili tis allilografias me
> titlo "Gramma apo ena Mayroskoufi" an thymamai kala pou dinei mia tragiki
> eikona gia tis ikanotites kai tin etoimotita/ekpaideysi twn mayroskoufidwn
> s' ena Aigaiopelagitiko nisi. Alla kai alla grammata milan gia kakes stoles
> klp. - se arthra tou to periodiko exei thiksei polles fores pws se sxesi me
> tis Tourkikes eidikes dynameis oi dikes mas einai pisw se themata eksoplismou
> kai bebai to thema tis anadiorganwsis tou stratou se epipedo taksiarxiwn gia
> pio eyelikto sxima sto opoio oi Tourkoi einai pio mprosta.
>
### Pare opoiondhpote ellhna apo skuladiko kai tha deis ti malthakos
einai. Oso gia ton 'Mauroskoufi' pou eixe grapsei gureue ti prohgoumena
tha eixe autos me ton strato. Kammia adeia, kammia proagwgh den tha tou
dothike kai amesws na xantakwsei tous sunaderfous tou. Nai, xexasa h
stolh kanei ton stratiwth, auto to koufou pws sou hrthe; Oso gia
euelikta sxhmata, oi ellhnikes enoples dunameis einai h mones dunameis
meta tous Israilinous pou einai se 24 hour, 365 meres to xrono se genikh
epistrateusimh kai etoimopolemh katastash. Gia taxarxies den xerw na sou
pw polla alla oson afora straties oi Tourkoi exoun tesseris kai emeis
molis mia ( to 22' eixame treis !) edw isws usteroume alla ti na ginei
afou autoi pollaplasiazontai san ta kounelia (to akoute gamiades ellhnares)
> >ola auta ta luxuries?? Prostheto kai to allo - Ti einai to pragma pou kanei
> >ton Tourko agroti apo tin Kappadokia Johnny Rambo kai ton ellina
> >shitkicker??? Kai poios sou eipe oti einai pio moboros ap ton ellina. Min
> >stenahoriese o ellinas ama theli can be an even worse bad ass!!! Apo oti
>
> Ma twra sobarologeis;- o mesos Ellinas menei stin poli kai den exei sfaksei
> oute kotopoulo sti zwi tou - o mesos Tourkos einai amorfwtos (kai ara pio
> eykolo na fanatistei) agrotis.
>
### Afou oloi apo xwrio eimaste, egw toulaxistwn exw sfaxei koutopoula
(otan o theios mou sto xwrio eixe spasei to xeri tou, ena XLATS, kai paei
to kefalaki). Katebainw eparxia taktika kai paizw merikes me thn
karabina - BERRETA 4 + 1 exw faei bolikes mpekatses. Na sou pw omws an
meinei enas mono Tourkos (agrotis na poume) kai einai o monos pou mporei
na dwsei suntetagmenes gia bombardismo, ti skata tha kanei; Edw o
morfomenos exei kapoio abantaz den nomizeis;
> >mou exoun pei ta xaderfia mou stin ellada (kai o pateras mou otan autos
> >uperetouse) o stratos mas einai very disciplined, very well equiped kai
> >panta se etoimotita kai mporei na ta balei me opoion kerata stin perioxi
> >auti!!!
>
> Ama arxisoume na syzitame sto epipedo tou ti mas exoun pei oi dikoi mas
> (pou eksartatai kai apo ton bathmo ston opoio pisteyan ti tous elegan
> oi karabanades apo panw tous) na ti dialysoume ti syzitisi.
>
> >>Ap' tin alli na tin nikisoume (en antithesei me apokrousoume) emeis akoma
> >pio >dyskolo to blepw.
> >
> >"Don't count your chickens before they're hacthed" Abdoulako mou this
> >remains to be seen!!!!
>
> Omws kati atoma pou oneireyontai "ntou stin Poli" san ton Isko (e re megale
> elega pote tha to petakseis ki esy) mporei na ta kanoun omeletta t' ayga
> prin akoma bgoun ta poulakia.
>
### NIKOS GALHS " otan papso na oneireuomai, tote tha exw xasei to
paixnidi" Auth einai h apanthsei mou.
BASILHS
Abdul>
Giannakenas, George
>Loipon na ksekatharizw - apo istories pou exw akousei apo deytero xeri
>(pilotos->steno filo/i i syggeni -> emena) fainetai pws synithws exoume
>to panw xeri stis anaxaitiseis. Kai bebaia oi efimerides kai ta periodika
>dinoun tin idia entypwsi. Milwntas me Tourkous omws diapistwsa pws kai
aytoi
>nomizoun akribws ta idia (yperoxi klp.) gia tous dikous tous pilotous kai
>pws stis eikonikes aeromaxies kata tis anaxaitiseis epikratoun ta aeroplana
>tous kai meta feygoun san kyrioi. Kai opws exoume emeis tous mythous pws
>oi Ellines einai oi kalyteroi pilotoi tou kosmou meta tous Israilinous
>(ektos ki an einai kaneis Xrysaygitis opote einai oi kalyteroi aplws :-)
>etsi exoun ki aytoi tous antistoixous dikous tous. Profanws kapou einai
>i alitheia kai kapou to psemma, isws kai kapou endiamesa. Alla bebaia
>episis profanws o eyrys plithysmos, diladi emeis, den prepei gia logous
>"ithikou" na mathainei tipota perissotero ap' o,ti emfanizei ti dikia tou
>pleyra ws tin kalyteri.
Malakies sketes!!! Ean epikratousan ta maxitika tous kai meta feugan san
"kyrioi" opws nomizoun oi Tourkalades tha eixame akousei gia polu sobara
epeisodia panw ap' to aigaio. Den exw kamia amfibolia oti ta bazoun sta
podia oi Tourkoi pilotes molis blepoun ta ellinika jets!!! Gia to mytho pou
mou les kai pali auto den to exw ksanakousi I'd rather not comment on it
because it sounds like a bit of an exageration.
>Prwton milousa gia tin kaloperasi tou mesou Ellina logw epipedou diabiwsis
>se sxesi me ton poly ftwxotero meso Tourko. An nomizeis pws ayti den kanei
>pio malthakous tous anthrwpous oson afora ta stratiwtika zitimata eisai
>nomizw poly afelis.
Esu eisai afelis. Otan me rwtas "Poios einai kalyteros(kai pio 'moboros
fantaros - o mesos Ellinas kaloperasakias" milas gia FANTAROUS oxi gia ton
aplo politi!!! Min feugeis apo to thema stick to the greek/turk SOLDIER
discussion/comparison please. Sto xana leo, epideis o Tourkos einai ftoxos
kai amorfotos auto DEN simeni oti einai Johnny Rambo. Understand? Mporei na
einai fanatikos but fanatisicm alone doesn't win wars or conflicts!!!
>Oso gia tin "Ptisi" mia kai tin aneferes tha diabases
>prin apo kanena xrono nomizw ena gramma sti stili tis allilografias me
>titlo "Gramma apo ena Mayroskoufi" an thymamai kala pou dinei mia tragiki
>eikona gia tis ikanotites kai tin etoimotita/ekpaideysi twn mayroskoufidwn
>s' ena Aigaiopelagitiko nisi. Alla kai alla grammata milan gia kakes stoles
>klp. - se arthra tou to periodiko exei thiksei polles fores pws se sxesi me
>tis Tourkikes eidikes dynameis oi dikes mas einai pisw se themata
eksoplismou
>kai bebai to thema tis anadiorganwsis tou stratou se epipedo taksiarxiwn
gia
>pio eyelikto sxima sto opoio oi Tourkoi einai pio mprosta.
Den thimame na diabasa tetoio arthro. Ean thimase se pio teuxos
parousiastike pes mou gia na psakso na to vro because it sounds interesting.
As for the rest of your comments I don't deny that the Greek armed forces
have their problems like all armed forces around the world, none are
perfect!!! I am sure the Turkish armed forces have just as many problems if
not more. In terms of weapons I disagree with you.
The weapons of both countries as a whole are almost identical. Turkey
doesn't have any clear advantage (in terms of quality of weapons) as opposed
to numbers (where they do have a slight advantage) over Greece. With respect
to your last comment I don't quite understand (unfortunately my poor greek
vocab is inhibiting me here) what you mean by "anadiorganwsis". If you are
saying that the Greek armed forces are structured or organised poorly as
opposed to the Turkish armed forces you are mistaken. How do you justify
this comment?
>Ma twra sobarologeis;- o mesos Ellinas menei stin poli kai den exei sfaksei
>oute kotopoulo sti zwi tou - o mesos Tourkos einai amorfwtos (kai ara pio
>eykolo na fanatistei) agrotis.
Opws sou eipa, auto den exei kamia sxesi me auto pou sizitame. Den prepei na
eisai genius i agrotis na eisai sfagias. Eimai sigouros oti otan i patrida
sou kindineuei grigora mathenei o politis ti prepei na kanei gia na tin
sosis kai na sothi den einai algebra!!!
>Ama arxisoume na syzitame sto epipedo tou ti mas exoun pei oi dikoi mas
>(pou eksartatai kai apo ton bathmo ston opoio pisteyan ti tous elegan
>oi karabanades apo panw tous) na ti dialysoume ti syzitisi.
Listen, Abdul, you have the benefit of growing up in Greece and probably
serving in the armed forces over there that is why you talk from probable
first hand experience and knowledge. I, on the other hand rely to a great
extent on what I read from magazines such as "Sinxrono Strato" and "Ptisi"
and what family (my dad) and relatives back in Greece tell me. If you don't
ask you don't learn and if you still insist on ending the discussion because
you have little faith in what I've been told well.........
>Omws kati atoma pou oneireyontai "ntou stin Poli" san ton Isko (e re megale
>elega pote tha to petakseis ki esy) mporei na ta kanoun omeletta t' ayga
>prin akoma bgoun ta poulakia.
>Abdul
Astone ton Isko, autos kala ta leei we need more Greeks like him on the
list. Alla thelo na se rwtiso pws tha ginoun omeletta ta auga (unless it's
some sort of new embryo omellete that I haven't heard of) ean exoune
poulakia mesa??? You're not much of a comedian!!!
George, Melbourne.
Vasilios Pierre Iskos
> >Posted on 4 Jun 1995 at 12:00:35 by Vasilios Pierre Iskos
> >
> >> Kai fysika mporei na leei kai leei otan xreiastei psemmata o ellinikos opws
> >> kai kathe allos typos - alimono ayto to syndromo "fylis aggelwn" pou
exoume.
> >>
> >### Nai re Abdullah, psemmata eipe o ellhnikos typos gia thn kataripsei
> >tou piloutou Sialma apo Tourkika f-16 se aeromaxia prin tria xronnia,
> >psemmata lene kai oi katoikoi twn akrtikwn nhsiwn otan akoune kai
> >sfurizoun panw apo ta kefalia tous ta Tourkika smhnoi, oloi psemmata lene
> >ektos apo sena.
>
> Akouse agorina mou, an thes na mou tin mpeis frontise na diabazeis kala
> ti grafw prin anoikseis to stomataki sou kai peis malakeies. Egw den
### Milas gia malakies re Abdul, pou exeis xeskstei na dinies resital me
autes kathe mera
> amfisbitisa to oti oi Tourkoi kanoun parabiaseis - exw kai emmeses (oxi
> apo efimerides) kai amesi martyria aytou. Oute gia to Sialma eipa tipota.
> Eipa pws einai me dedomeno pws i istoria "nikites se kathe eikoniki
> aeromaxia panw apo to Aigaio" prowtheitai kai apo ton elliniko kai apo
> ton Tourkiko typo einai pithano na mas mparoufiazoun (an kai kata poso
> einai oi agnwstoi) oi efimerides mas kai oi fimologies mas. Kai to
> "syndromo fulis aggelwn" anaferotan stin adynamia tou Giwrgou na dexthei
> pws mporoun na grapsoun psemmata oi efimerides.
>
> Parempiptontws o Sialmas den katarrifthike (i aeromaxia itan eikoniki)
> alla o kinitiras tou stolarise kai den mporese na anebei meta tin kathodo
> sto epipedo tis thalassas. I diafora einai mikri sto apotelesma alla milame
> gia atyxima en mesw eikonikis aeromaxias - tha itan katarripsi an oi Tourkoi
> eixan anoiksei pyr.
>
> >### Prwton, kaluteroi pilotoi ston kosmo einai oi Amerikanoi meta oi
> >Israilinoi kai meta emeis. Kai xereis giati file Abdul, giati oi pilotoi
>
> Nea ekdoxi ki ayti. Exw akousei mexri stigmis ta eksis
>
> Amerikanoi, Israilinoi, Ellines
> Aggloi, Amerikanoi, Israilinoi (apo Agglo bebaia)
> Israilinoi, Amerikanoi, Ellines (apo arketous)
> Israilinoi, Ellines, Amerikanoi (apo tous perissoterous)
> Israilinoi, Tourkoi, Amerikanoi, Ellines (apo Tourko pou mas eixe se
> ypolipsi! :-)
>
> To zitima einai pws kanenas de milouse me sygkekrimmena stoixeia kai
> ksekatharizontas ton tropo me ton opoio kanei tin aksiologisi.
>
> >autwn twn xwrwn pragamatopoioun tis pio duskoles askhseis, me alla logia
> >ta spane ta maxhthika tous, tous allazoun ton patera sta G's. Kapote
> >eixe pei enas amerikanos smhnarxos ston patera mou, " it is always a
> >challenge to fly against the Greeks in aerial combat". Xaraktiristika,
> >to 1982 sto New Mexico eixan ginei 'agwnes' metaxu pilotwn diaforwn
> >xwrwn. Oi Tourkoi esteilan 26 apo tous kaluterous pilotous tous, oi
> >ellhnes esteilan exi. Apo tous 26 Tourkous kanenas den perase pera apo to
> >stadio
> >ths proetimasias, enw oi ellhnes oxi mono perasan kai oi exi alla, phrame
> >thn prwth, trith, tetarth, ekth, kai dekath thesh. H Ellada se plhroforo
>
> Na kseres poses tetoies istories exw akousei - tha ektimousa anafora se ena
> biblio i amerikaniko periodiko pou mporw na ta brw ayta ta stoixeia gia na
> exw epitelous kati to sygkekrimmeno. Oso gia to "allazoun ton patera sta
>
### Dustuxws ta biblia me tis plhrofories ta exw afhsei Ellada
G's" na ypothesw pws asteieyosoun - i dyskolia mias askisis den krinetai
> apo ta posa G's (pou eksartatai apo to aeroskafos kai ton piloto) "traban"
> oi pilotoi alla apo ena swro alla pragmata opws polyplokotita senariou,
> kairikes synthikes, arithmos bogeys klp.
>
> >einai h monh xwra me exairesh ths HPA pou exoun to elafru bombardistiko -
> >A7 Corsair, tou opoiou o xeirismos einai exairetika duskolos. AUth den
> >einai sumptwsh.
>
> Edw se pianw kai adiabasto (pou pas ksypolitos; :-). Ta A-7 ta exei kai i
> Portogallia (A-7P). Me ti logiki sou kai oi Portogalloi tha eprepe na
> einai diasimoi ana ton kosmo pilotoi - alla den einai. Ase pou to A-7
> den einai toso dyskolo oso to F-104 pou eixame ki emeis kai oi Tourkoi kai
> oi Italoi kai oi Germanoi kai oi Ollandoi kai kai kai ...
>
### Otan oi Portogaloi parelambanan ta A-7, (teleutaies paradoseis eginan
mexri kai ta mesa 94', oi Ellhnes pilotoi petousan ta A-7 mesa apo to
Farragi Samarias. Oso gia ta F-104 , den uparxei pio axrhsto aeroplano.
Oi Tourkoi blasthmhsan thn wra kai thn stigmh pou ta phran. Oxi mono
exoun problhma me tous khnitures tous alla kai ta randar tous
parousiazoun tromera problhmata.
> > Telos polles fores ellhnika FANTOM F-4 (ax athanata
> >Fantom) erxontai antimetwpa me Tourkika F-16. Parolo pou ta F-16 einai
> >pio grhgora pio euelikta kai exoun megalutero pedio drashs, ta ellhnika
> >PHANTOM kerdizoun stis perissoteres anaxaithseis apo tous pio empeirous
> >kai tsamboukalhdes ellhnes pilotous.
>
> Ayta mathainw ki egw - alla ayto pou rwtaw einai giati prepei na einai
> swnei kai kala swsta; Mono kai mono epeidi ta leme emeis; Kai oi Tourkoi
> lene t' antistrofa.
>
> >> >>Oso gia to "quality not quantity" anamenw ki apo esena mia apantisi sto
> >> > themeliwdes erwtima pou eixe thesei o Faylos kapote: Poios einai
kalyteros
> >> >(kai pio >'moboros fantaros - o mesos Ellinas kaloperasakias (Aytokinisi,
> >> >gipedo kai baraki)
> >> >>i o mesos Tourkos imimathis i kai amathis agrotis apo tin Kappadokia;
> >> >>Skepsou posous apo tous prwtous exoume emeis kai posous apo tous
deyterous
> >> >>ekeinoi. Kai en katakleidi, oxi de symfwnw pws tha einai poly eykolo gia
> >> >>tin Tourkia na mas nikisei gia allous logous pou den exoun na kanoun me
> >> >>andreies kai alla afirimena.
> >> >
> >### Profanws den exeis katebei pote ghpedo na deis ti xulo peftei. Den
>
> Exw katebei kai den ksanapiga. :-)
>
### Ti egine se barese kana prezoni, h sou thn epese h kuria me ta fouter;
> >sou milaw gia A' kathgoria kai malakies, phgaine se ghpedo A' kai B'
> >kathgorias lekanopediou Attikhs na deis ti fatses mazeuontai. Otan
> >epaiza gia ton Astera Zwgrafou mas thn eixe pesei sto Kalamaki mia gria
> >me ena lostari kai eidame ton Xristo fantaro kai deka epistrateuseis.
> >Twra gia tis loules pou mazeuontai sta diafora Mercedes, Bouzios kai den
> >xerw egw ti allo, paw paso, alla phgaine agorina ekei pou peftoun oi
> >parragelies kai pes tous flwrous na deis gia pote tha sou kanoun prwktikh
> >peritomh.
>
> ws gnwston oi peritomi mporei na ginei mono ekei pou kremetai petsaki
> kai apo ton kwlo mou den kremetai tipota tetoio.
### Kala den sou'pa kai na psaxeis, alla afou epsaxes xairomai gia thn
exakribwsh.
> >### Pare opoiondhpote ellhna apo skuladiko kai tha deis ti malthakos
> >einai. Oso gia ton 'Mauroskoufi' pou eixe grapsei gureue ti prohgoumena
> >tha eixe autos me ton strato. Kammia adeia, kammia proagwgh den tha tou
> >dothike kai amesws na xantakwsei tous sunaderfous tou. Nai, xexasa h
>
> Kanena den xantakwne sto gramma tou - diabase to prwta (dystyxws den
> exw ta palia mou teyxi edw na elega kai arithmo gia to Giwrgo) kai meta
> mila.
>
> >stolh kanei ton stratiwth, auto to koufou pws sou hrthe; Oso gia
> >euelikta sxhmata, oi ellhnikes enoples dunameis einai h mones dunameis
> >meta tous Israilinous pou einai se 24 hour, 365 meres to xrono se genikh
> >epistrateusimh kai etoimopolemh katastash. Gia taxarxies den xerw na sou
> >pw polla alla oson afora straties oi Tourkoi exoun tesseris kai emeis
> >molis mia ( to 22' eixame treis !) edw isws usteroume alla ti na ginei
> >afou autoi pollaplasiazontai san ta kounelia (to akoute gamiades ellhnares)
>
> M' aresei pou meta pas na mou pouliseis gnwseis. Mathe loipon pws s' olous
> tous tratous tou kosmou yparxei twra mia tasi anadiorganwsis gyrw apo tin
> taksiarxia san basiki monada wste o stratos na einai pio eyeliktos oson
> afora tis metakiniseis kai anasyntakseis. Ayti i diadikasia tis anadiorganw-
> sis einai opws einai fysiko xronobora kai simantiki alla oi Tourkoi mas
> exoun prolabei. Episis apo to '74 kai meta den eimaiste se geniki epistra-
> teysi gia na isxyei ayto pou les - alla mia dyo bathmides pio katw. Oute kai
> to Israil bebaia einai se geniki epistrateysi (an ikseres ti simainei o oros
> den tha ton xrisimopoiouses ypothetw).
>
### Re Abdullalara mathe oti o ellhnikos stratos den pontarei (pote den
pontare) se taxiarxies. To basiko shmeio tou ellhnikou strato einai h
anadiorganwsh pou les kai su tis kathe Merarxias. H Merarxia (mia
merarxia kumenetai apo 8 mexri 12 xilliades antres) exei pio euelikto
sxhma kai xrhsimopoietai epeidh gewmetrika borei na kalupsh perrisotero
metwpo. To 49' gia paradeigma h 9' Merarxia boukare sthn Pelopnhso kai
katharise se elaxistous mhnes xilliades koummounia san kai tou logou sou
kaluptontas polh grhgora to edafos estw kai xwris mhxanokhnhtes monades.
Oso gia poulhmata gnwsewn, kalutera mila ekei pou se pairnei ( An exoun
oi kwloi petsia ...)
Gia epi 24wrou 'epistrateush tha epanerthw se allo mail me plhrofories -
isws kai na mhn to diatupwsa swsta - telospantwn.
> >> Ma twra sobarologeis;- o mesos Ellinas menei stin poli kai den exei sfaksei
> >> oute kotopoulo sti zwi tou - o mesos Tourkos einai amorfwtos (kai ara pio
> >> eykolo na fanatistei) agrotis.
> >>
> >### Afou oloi apo xwrio eimaste, egw toulaxistwn exw sfaxei koutopoula
> >(otan o theios mou sto xwrio eixe spasei to xeri tou, ena XLATS, kai paei
> >to kefalaki). Katebainw eparxia taktika kai paizw merikes me thn
>
> Kai meta trexei i kota... :-)
>
> >karabina - BERRETA 4 + 1 exw faei bolikes mpekatses. Na sou pw omws an
> >meinei enas mono Tourkos (agrotis na poume) kai einai o monos pou mporei
> >na dwsei suntetagmenes gia bombardismo, ti skata tha kanei; Edw o
> >morfomenos exei kapoio abantaz den nomizeis;
>
> Profanws - alla exoun kai morfwmenous gia tis liges (sygkritika) theseis
> pou tis xreiazontai tis gnwseis.
>
> >> Omws kati atoma pou oneireyontai "ntou stin Poli" san ton Isko (e re megale
> >> elega pote tha to petakseis ki esy) mporei na ta kanoun omeletta t' ayga
> >> prin akoma bgoun ta poulakia.
> >>
> > ### NIKOS GALHS " otan papso na oneireuomai, tote tha exw xasei to
> >paixnidi".
>
> Kai pws to lene to paixnidi; "Megali Ellada";
>
### Oxi, to lene " Kai twra ta duo mas "
Abdul
> PS> Giwrgo Gianekenna syggnwmi alla den exw xrono na lew peripou ta idia
> pragmata kai s' esena. Elpizw na kalyfthikes merika toylaxiston.
>
Abdullah the Butcher
>
>> Akouse agorina mou, an thes na mou tin mpeis frontise na diabazeis kala
>> ti grafw prin anoikseis to stomataki sou kai peis malakeies. Egw den
>### Milas gia malakies re Abdul, pou exeis xeskstei na dinies resital me
>autes kathe mera
Gegonos einai pws tis malakeies kai tis anakribeies (px. A-7, taksiarxies)
esy tis les s' ayti ti syzitisi. Apo ekei kai pera apo ethnikistaro san tin
afentia sou den perimena na min pisteyei pws grafw maalakeies.
>> >einai h monh xwra me exairesh ths HPA pou exoun to elafru bombardistiko -
>> >A7 Corsair, tou opoiou o xeirismos einai exairetika duskolos. AUth den
>> >einai sumptwsh.
>>
>> Edw se pianw kai adiabasto (pou pas ksypolitos; :-). Ta A-7 ta exei kai i
>> Portogallia (A-7P). Me ti logiki sou kai oi Portogalloi tha eprepe na
>> einai diasimoi ana ton kosmo pilotoi - alla den einai. Ase pou to A-7
>> den einai toso dyskolo oso to F-104 pou eixame ki emeis kai oi Tourkoi kai
>> oi Italoi kai oi Germanoi kai oi Ollandoi kai kai kai ...
>>
>### Otan oi Portogaloi parelambanan ta A-7, (teleutaies paradoseis eginan
>mexri kai ta mesa 94', oi Ellhnes pilotoi petousan ta A-7 mesa apo to
>Farragi Samarias. Oso gia ta F-104 , den uparxei pio axrhsto aeroplano.
Kainourgia anakribeia. Agorina mou ta A-7 pou parelaban prosfata oi Portogal-
loi einai A-7E apo ta apothemata twn Amerikanikwn enoplwn dynamewn, san kai
ayta pou pirame prosfata kai emeis. I arxiki tous agora itan A-7P (eidika gia
tin Portogallia opws itan ta A-7H gia emas) kai itan peripou tin idia epoxi
me ti diki mas agora.
>Oi Tourkoi blasthmhsan thn wra kai thn stigmh pou ta phran. Oxi mono
>exoun problhma me tous khnitures tous alla kai ta randar tous
>parousiazoun tromera problhmata.
Ta F-104 ta eixan oi perissoteres xwres meli tou NATO, symperilambanomenis
tis Elladas (opote ta sxolia peri Tourkias den katalabainw pou kollane - an
kapoioi blastimisan pragmatika aytoi itan oi Germanoi pou eixan foberes
apwleies ston typo.) To problima tou F-104 den itan toso o kinitiras (J-79,
idios sta peripou m' ayton tou Phantom) alla oti itan poly eyaisthito stis
"mpastounies" kai genikotera dyskolo ston elegxo.
>> >### Profanws den exeis katebei pote ghpedo na deis ti xulo peftei. Den
>>
>> Exw katebei kai den ksanapiga. :-)
>>
>### Ti egine se barese kana prezoni, h sou thn epese h kuria me ta fouter;
Oxi kati kwloxouligkania san tin parti sou ekana lampougyala t' amaksi tou
filou mou me ton opoio piga.
>> >parragelies kai pes tous flwrous na deis gia pote tha sou kanoun prwktikh
>> >peritomh.
>>
>> ws gnwston oi peritomi mporei na ginei mono ekei pou kremetai petsaki
>> kai apo ton kwlo mou den kremetai tipota tetoio.
>
>### Kala den sou'pa kai na psaxeis, alla afou epsaxes xairomai gia thn
>exakribwsh.
De xreiazotan na psaksw - ayto pou me problimatizei omws einai pou sou
kollise i idea. ;->
>### Re Abdullalara mathe oti o ellhnikos stratos den pontarei (pote den
>pontare) se taxiarxies. To basiko shmeio tou ellhnikou strato einai h
>anadiorganwsh pou les kai su tis kathe Merarxias. H Merarxia (mia
>merarxia kumenetai apo 8 mexri 12 xilliades antres) exei pio euelikto
>sxhma kai xrhsimopoietai epeidh gewmetrika borei na kalupsh perrisotero
MA kala mia megalyteri monada (opws i merarxia) exei pio eyelikto sxima
apo mia taksiarxeia; Pigaine pes ta ayta stous typades tou US Army pou
meta to Desert Storm apofasisan paromoies anadiorganwseis.
>metwpo. To 49' gia paradeigma h 9' Merarxia boukare sthn Pelopnhso kai
>katharise se elaxistous mhnes xilliades koummounia san kai tou logou sou
Pou'sai re Astera na diabaseis ti grafei o syntopitis sou. Kai na'mouna
"koummouni" na'lega toulaxiston kammia bareia koubenta.
>kaluptontas polh grhgora to edafos estw kai xwris mhxanokhnhtes monades.
>Oso gia poulhmata gnwsewn, kalutera mila ekei pou se pairnei ( An exoun
>oi kwloi petsia ...)
Oi imimatheis (ki an einai xouligkanoi san tin parti sou akoma xeirotera)
telika einai xeiroteroi ki apo tous amatheis. Mexri stigmis oxi mono kaneis
lathi alla den ta paradexesai kai epimeneis.
Abdul
Abdullah the Butcher
>
>> Kai fysika mporei na leei kai leei otan xreiastei psemmata o ellinikos opws
>> kai kathe allos typos - alimono ayto to syndromo "fylis aggelwn" pou exoume.
>>
>### Nai re Abdullah, psemmata eipe o ellhnikos typos gia thn kataripsei
>tou piloutou Sialma apo Tourkika f-16 se aeromaxia prin tria xronnia,
>psemmata lene kai oi katoikoi twn akrtikwn nhsiwn otan akoune kai
>sfurizoun panw apo ta kefalia tous ta Tourkika smhnoi, oloi psemmata lene
>ektos apo sena.
Akouse agorina mou, an thes na mou tin mpeis frontise na diabazeis kala
ti grafw prin anoikseis to stomataki sou kai peis malakeies. Egw den
G's" na ypothesw pws asteieyosoun - i dyskolia mias askisis den krinetai
apo ta posa G's (pou eksartatai apo to aeroskafos kai ton piloto) "traban"
oi pilotoi alla apo ena swro alla pragmata opws polyplokotita senariou,
kairikes synthikes, arithmos bogeys klp.
>einai h monh xwra me exairesh ths HPA pou exoun to elafru bombardistiko -
>A7 Corsair, tou opoiou o xeirismos einai exairetika duskolos. AUth den
>einai sumptwsh.
Edw se pianw kai adiabasto (pou pas ksypolitos; :-). Ta A-7 ta exei kai i
Portogallia (A-7P). Me ti logiki sou kai oi Portogalloi tha eprepe na
einai diasimoi ana ton kosmo pilotoi - alla den einai. Ase pou to A-7
den einai toso dyskolo oso to F-104 pou eixame ki emeis kai oi Tourkoi kai
oi Italoi kai oi Germanoi kai oi Ollandoi kai kai kai ...
> Telos polles fores ellhnika FANTOM F-4 (ax athanata
>Fantom) erxontai antimetwpa me Tourkika F-16. Parolo pou ta F-16 einai
>pio grhgora pio euelikta kai exoun megalutero pedio drashs, ta ellhnika
>PHANTOM kerdizoun stis perissoteres anaxaithseis apo tous pio empeirous
>kai tsamboukalhdes ellhnes pilotous.
Ayta mathainw ki egw - alla ayto pou rwtaw einai giati prepei na einai
swnei kai kala swsta; Mono kai mono epeidi ta leme emeis; Kai oi Tourkoi
lene t' antistrofa.
>> >>Oso gia to "quality not quantity" anamenw ki apo esena mia apantisi sto
>> > themeliwdes erwtima pou eixe thesei o Faylos kapote: Poios einai kalyteros
>> >(kai pio >'moboros fantaros - o mesos Ellinas kaloperasakias (Aytokinisi,
>> >gipedo kai baraki)
>> >>i o mesos Tourkos imimathis i kai amathis agrotis apo tin Kappadokia;
>> >>Skepsou posous apo tous prwtous exoume emeis kai posous apo tous deyterous
>> >>ekeinoi. Kai en katakleidi, oxi de symfwnw pws tha einai poly eykolo gia
>> >>tin Tourkia na mas nikisei gia allous logous pou den exoun na kanoun me
>> >>andreies kai alla afirimena.
>> >
>### Profanws den exeis katebei pote ghpedo na deis ti xulo peftei. Den
Exw katebei kai den ksanapiga. :-)
>sou milaw gia A' kathgoria kai malakies, phgaine se ghpedo A' kai B'
>kathgorias lekanopediou Attikhs na deis ti fatses mazeuontai. Otan
>epaiza gia ton Astera Zwgrafou mas thn eixe pesei sto Kalamaki mia gria
>me ena lostari kai eidame ton Xristo fantaro kai deka epistrateuseis.
>Twra gia tis loules pou mazeuontai sta diafora Mercedes, Bouzios kai den
>xerw egw ti allo, paw paso, alla phgaine agorina ekei pou peftoun oi
>parragelies kai pes tous flwrous na deis gia pote tha sou kanoun prwktikh
>peritomh.
ws gnwston oi peritomi mporei na ginei mono ekei pou kremetai petsaki
kai apo ton kwlo mou den kremetai tipota tetoio. Twra esena pou sou mpike
tetoia idea den kserw. :-)
>### Pare opoiondhpote ellhna apo skuladiko kai tha deis ti malthakos
>einai. Oso gia ton 'Mauroskoufi' pou eixe grapsei gureue ti prohgoumena
>tha eixe autos me ton strato. Kammia adeia, kammia proagwgh den tha tou
>dothike kai amesws na xantakwsei tous sunaderfous tou. Nai, xexasa h
Kanena den xantakwne sto gramma tou - diabase to prwta (dystyxws den
exw ta palia mou teyxi edw na elega kai arithmo gia to Giwrgo) kai meta
mila.
>stolh kanei ton stratiwth, auto to koufou pws sou hrthe; Oso gia
>euelikta sxhmata, oi ellhnikes enoples dunameis einai h mones dunameis
>meta tous Israilinous pou einai se 24 hour, 365 meres to xrono se genikh
>epistrateusimh kai etoimopolemh katastash. Gia taxarxies den xerw na sou
>pw polla alla oson afora straties oi Tourkoi exoun tesseris kai emeis
>molis mia ( to 22' eixame treis !) edw isws usteroume alla ti na ginei
>afou autoi pollaplasiazontai san ta kounelia (to akoute gamiades ellhnares)
M' aresei pou meta pas na mou pouliseis gnwseis. Mathe loipon pws s' olous
tous tratous tou kosmou yparxei twra mia tasi anadiorganwsis gyrw apo tin
taksiarxia san basiki monada wste o stratos na einai pio eyeliktos oson
afora tis metakiniseis kai anasyntakseis. Ayti i diadikasia tis anadiorganw-
sis einai opws einai fysiko xronobora kai simantiki alla oi Tourkoi mas
exoun prolabei. Episis apo to '74 kai meta den eimaiste se geniki epistra-
teysi gia na isxyei ayto pou les - alla mia dyo bathmides pio katw. Oute kai
to Israil bebaia einai se geniki epistrateysi (an ikseres ti simainei o oros
den tha ton xrisimopoiouses ypothetw).
>> Ma twra sobarologeis;- o mesos Ellinas menei stin poli kai den exei sfaksei
>> oute kotopoulo sti zwi tou - o mesos Tourkos einai amorfwtos (kai ara pio
>> eykolo na fanatistei) agrotis.
>>
>### Afou oloi apo xwrio eimaste, egw toulaxistwn exw sfaxei koutopoula
>(otan o theios mou sto xwrio eixe spasei to xeri tou, ena XLATS, kai paei
>to kefalaki). Katebainw eparxia taktika kai paizw merikes me thn
Kai meta trexei i kota... :-)
>karabina - BERRETA 4 + 1 exw faei bolikes mpekatses. Na sou pw omws an
>meinei enas mono Tourkos (agrotis na poume) kai einai o monos pou mporei
>na dwsei suntetagmenes gia bombardismo, ti skata tha kanei; Edw o
>morfomenos exei kapoio abantaz den nomizeis;
Profanws - alla exoun kai morfwmenous gia tis liges (sygkritika) theseis
pou tis xreiazontai tis gnwseis.
>> Omws kati atoma pou oneireyontai "ntou stin Poli" san ton Isko (e re megale
>> elega pote tha to petakseis ki esy) mporei na ta kanoun omeletta t' ayga
>> prin akoma bgoun ta poulakia.
>>
> ### NIKOS GALHS " otan papso na oneireuomai, tote tha exw xasei to
>paixnidi" Auth einai h apanthsei mou.
Kai pws to lene to paixnidi; "Megali Ellada";
Abdullah the Butcher
>
>### Ethnikistaros egw, Tourko-gluftaros esu. Sou eipa, tis malakies esu
Em bebaia - oi mi "ethnikofrones" einai Tourkoglyftaroi. Opou na'nai tha
mas steileis kai ta EAT/ESA.
>tis xestomizeis kathe fora, gia paradeigma exeis anaferthei stis
>taxiarxies xwris na exeis exakribwsh kan ton rolo tous. Pes kana duo
Kala exeis saltarei gia ta kala; Akoma na katalabeis (arxizw na pisteyw pws
den eisai se thesi na katanoiseis) to oti oi monternoi stratoi anadiorgano-
nontai sto epipedo tis taksiarxias gia megalyteri eyeliksia stin anaptyksi
tous kai zitas kai ta resta apo panw.
>pragmata ths prokophs kai meta egw 'anabw tsigaro'.
>Epishs exeis sugrinei ta A-7 me ta F-104. Kammia sxesh to ena aeroplano
Apo panw eisai kai pseytaros - to F-104 to anefera ws pio _dyskolo_ aeroplano
sto pilotarisma (mia kai aneferes to A-7 san tetoio) kai oxi ws antistoixo
tou A-7 sto rolo. Parola ayta oi Tourkoi kai emeis to xrisimopoiousame ws
fighter-bomber mia kai ws anaxaitistiko tin simeron epoxi einai teleiws mapa
enw toulaxiston gia apostoles bombardismou boithietai kapws apo tin mikri tou
pterygiki epifaneia (quiz gia mi-kretinous san ki esena: ti boithaei i mikri
pterygiki epifaneia stin ptisi se xamilo ypsos;).
>me to allo. To ena aeroplano (A-7) einai elafru bombardistiko kai to allo
>(F-104) einai 'Interceptor', me alla logia katadiwktiko.
Oxi agorina mou - oute n ametafrazeis den ksereis:
Interceptor = anaxaitistiko
Fighter = maxitiko (-> aeroskafos aeroporikis yperoxis)
Pursuit = katadiwktiko
O teleytaios oros einai tou 2ou Pagkosmiou Polemou opou ola ta amerikanika
maxitika tis USAAF (edw thelw na dw poios magkas kserei giati eixe 2 A tote
i USAF) eixan kwdika P-(noumero) ws Pursuit. O oros exei katargithei pleon.
Afinw to keimeno parakatw opou eipes pws ekana ti "sygkrisi" gia na doun oi
loipoi ti pseytaros eisai.
>> >> Portogallia (A-7P). Me ti logiki sou kai oi Portogalloi tha eprepe na
>> >> einai diasimoi ana ton kosmo pilotoi - alla den einai. Ase pou to A-7
>> >> den einai toso dyskolo oso to F-104 pou eixame ki emeis kai oi Tourkoi
> kai
>> >> oi Italoi kai oi Germanoi kai oi Ollandoi kai kai kai ...
[snip]
>> Kainourgia anakribeia. Agorina mou ta A-7 pou parelaban prosfata oi Porto
>gal-
>> loi einai A-7E apo ta apothemata twn Amerikanikwn enoplwn dynamewn, san k
>ai
>> ayta pou pirame prosfata kai emeis. I arxiki tous agora itan A-7P (eidika
> gia
>> tin Portogallia opws itan ta A-7H gia emas) kai itan peripou tin idia epo
>xi
>> me ti diki mas agora.
>>=20
>### Ta A-7H eixan kataskeuastei eidika gia mas (giauto kai to H
>-Hellenic) giati ta original A-7 eixan fueling capabilities tis opoies
>emeis den xreazomastan (elleipsh tankers, ktl.) Auto bebaia ta ekana pio
>elafra kai pio grhgora, an kai meiothike h embeleia drashs tous. Oi
>prwtes paralabes (olokainourgia kai to tonizw) xekinhsan to 73' kai
>teliwsan to 78'. Oi Portogaloi ta phran 'sarabala' apo elehmosunes twn
>Amerikanwn polla xronnia argotera - an thumamai kala phran dwdeka. Auta
>gia tis malakies sou peri 'idies epoxes me ta dika mas'.
Oi dikes sou einai oi malakeies - ta A-7P (P = Portugal) itan eidika
ftiagmena gia tin Portogallia kai agorastikan sta mesa tis dekaetias
tou '70 otan i grammi paragwgis tis LTV itan akoma anoixti. Ta prosfata
agorasmena A-7 KAI apo tis 2 xwres itan A-7E apo ta apothemata twn
Amerikanwn kai peftoun stin katigoria twn "sarabalwn" kat' ese. To oti
eipes psemmata pws eimaste i moni xwra pou exei A-7 ektos apo tis HPA
to ekanes gargara blepw.
>### Ta sxolia kollane sthn mapa sou pou den xereis ti les. Oi Tourkoi
>agorasan 150 F-104, kai meis 45. San Interceptor ta F-104 htan
>sxediasmena gia electronic warfare, mono pou wpos sou eixa pei ta radar
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ax theouli mou to megethos tis imimatheias sou einai to kati allo:
Electronic warfare; Ta anaxaitistika agorina mou exoun san rolo na
stamatoun tis dieisdyseis exthrikwn sximatismwn ston enaerio xoro sou
kai oxi ton ilektroniko polemo. Gi' ayton yparxoun eidika aeroskafi
opws to EF-111 Raven gia tin USAF kai EA-6B Prowler gia to US Navy
pou kostizoun ta kerata tous. Fysika to Radar tou F-104 kammia sxesi
den eixe me ilektroniko polemo. To zitima einai pws to aeroskafos den
itan idiaitera eyelikto gia maxitiko kai eixe polla atyximata. Oi
Germanoi pragmatika metaniwsan pou to agorasan mazika.
>tous den ebgalan ta problepomena apotelesmata. H Ellada omws, antitheta
>me tous malakes tous O0wmannous thn phre prefa thn douleia kai koitaxe
>siga siga na kalupsei tis anagkes tis me alla pio axiologa aeroplana.
>Idou kai ta antikatasthsame perisu h propersu kai ta teleutaia, kai ta
>steilame sto aerodromio sthn Tripolh na blepoun agwnes autokinitwn, parea`
>me ta F-5. Enw oi Tourkoi arga, arxisan kai autoi na ta antikatastoun
Mono pou ksexases pws akoma xrisimopoioume ta F-5.
>(exasan pollous pilotous wspou ebalan mualo) me F-16, emeis eixame hdh
>paralabei ta dika mas F-16 kai ta Mirage F-1.
Katse re megale - ta F-1 ta paralabame ti dekaetia tou '70 kai ta F-16
sta teli tis dekaetias tou '80 kai malista tin idia epoxi me tous Tourkous.
Ti axtarmas einai aytos pou exeis kanei;
>> >### Kala den sou'pa kai na psaxeis, alla afou epsaxes xairomai gia thn
>> >exakribwsh.
>>=20
>> De xreiazotan na psaksw - ayto pou me problimatizei omws einai pou sou
>> kollise i idea. ;->
>> ### Egw upethesa kapoia stigmh pws eixe futrwsei glwssidi ston kwlo sou
Min krineis eks idiwn ta allotria.
>> MA kala mia megalyteri monada (opws i merarxia) exei pio eyelikto sxima
>> apo mia taksiarxeia; Pigaine pes ta ayta stous typades tou US Army pou
>> meta to Desert Storm apofasisan paromoies anadiorganwseis.
>### Egw apo'ti xerw to US Army pou les esu, gamise ouk oligo kolaraki sto
>Desert Storm. H kathe merarxia borei na leitourghsei kai san enoiao swma
>alla epishs na diaspastei analoga me tis anagkes se mikrotera tmhmata,
> den pauei omws na einai o kormos ths anexarthtos, (paromoia leitourgei
>kai o Serbikos stratos )
Otan kathisan katw t' Amerikanakia kai koitaksan ti egine sto Desert Storm
diapistwsan pws orismenes monades pou leitourgousan ws aneksartites
taksiarxies mporesan na metakinithoun kai na paroun theseis stin Saoudiki
Arabia poly pio grigora kai organwmena apo tis megalyteres monades. O logos
einai pws nai men fysika i kathe merarxia diaireitai se mikroteres monades
alla otan i epimeliteia kai oli i logistiki ypostiriksi einai organwmeni
sto epipedo merarxias einai pio dyskolo gia tis mikroteres omades na kinithoun
aytonoma. Telos pantwn, ti to syzitaw mazi sou afou profanws arneisai na
to katalabeis kai otan ginei (syntoma) kai i anadiorganwsi tou ellinikou
stratou se paromoies baseis opws syzitietai tote prokeitai na kaneis ki ayti
tin ypothesi gargara.
>> Pou'sai re Astera na diabaseis ti grafei o syntopitis sou. Kai na'mouna
>> "koummouni" na'lega toulaxiston kammia bareia koubenta.
>>
>Asteras - Abdullah "ouna fatsa ouna ratsa"
Mpa; Einai dimetros arapis o Asteras :-) kai den to ksera;
>> ### "Epimenw, perimenw, h zwh mou mish
> Tourko-glufths esu, upomenw, perimenw ... "
Ki apo panw exeis kai malakeies mousika gousta.
Abdul
PS> Kai pou'sai kopse tis malakeies me to MIME encoding sto mailer sou
giati gemise to posting apo =20 kai mou gike i pisti na to diabasw kai
na ta sbisw.
Paul Kosmetatos
>
> >Posted on 6 Jun 1995 at 00:48:48 by Vasilios Pierre Iskos
> Apo panw eisai kai pseytaros - to F-104 to anefera ws pio _dyskolo_ aeroplano
> sto pilotarisma (mia kai aneferes to A-7 san tetoio) kai oxi ws antistoixo
> tou A-7 sto rolo. Parola ayta oi Tourkoi kai emeis to xrisimopoiousame ws
> fighter-bomber mia kai ws anaxaitistiko tin simeron epoxi einai teleiws mapa
> enw toulaxiston gia apostoles bombardismou boithietai kapws apo tin mikri tou
> pterygiki epifaneia (quiz gia mi-kretinous san ki esena: ti boithaei i mikri
> pterygiki epifaneia stin ptisi se xamilo ypsos;).
Ypothetw oti epireazetai ligotero apo ton mpourboulithre aera sta xamila.
Fysika de to paizw aeronafpigos. Gia to F-104 sygkekrimena kserw pandws
oti san dogfighter ton pairnei apo pantou kathws ekei oiktro rate of turn
se megale tahytites, enw san elafry vomvardistiko einai kalo giati etsi
loukanikoeides pou einai ehei poly mikro radar cross-section. Den pavei
na einai arxaia patata fysika :-).
> >me to allo. To ena aeroplano (A-7) einai elafru bombardistiko kai to allo
> >(F-104) einai 'Interceptor', me alla logia katadiwktiko.
>
> Oxi agorina mou - oute n ametafrazeis den ksereis:
> Interceptor = anaxaitistiko
> Fighter = maxitiko (-> aeroskafos aeroporikis yperoxis)
> Pursuit = katadiwktiko
>
> O teleytaios oros einai tou 2ou Pagkosmiou Polemou opou ola ta amerikanika
> maxitika tis USAAF (edw thelw na dw poios magkas kserei giati eixe 2 A tote
> i USAF) eixan kwdika P-(noumero) ws Pursuit. O oros exei katargithei pleon.
> Afinw to keimeno parakatw opou eipes pws ekana ti "sygkrisi" gia na doun oi
> loipoi ti pseytaros eisai.
Ante re xasapi pou tha mas pouliseis kai mouri gia WWII :-). I aeroporia
den itan aneksartito oplo stin Ameriki tote, eksou kai USArmyAF. Akrivws
opws to Royal Flying Corps ston WWI. Oso gia to Pursuit katargithike
(kakws kata ti gnwmi mou giati einai poly xavale oros) giati meta ton
polemo den eihan ta lefta (kai to simplicity of design) na ftiahnoun ena
tsouvali single role aeroplana kai arxisane na ftiahnoun katadiwktika pou na
boroun kai na riksoun kammia vomva an hreiastei. Fysika o diahwrismos den
einai toso aplos mia kai as poume to Zeke ston WWII itan akrivws tetoiou
typou "Fighter" (eihe 1000lb vomva, akrivws san to "classiko"
vomvardistiko Ju-87). Ta idia kai to P-51 kai kyriws to P-47 (pou simera
tha to onomazame F/A-47). Moda.
> >> MA kala mia megalyteri monada (opws i merarxia) exei pio eyelikto sxima
> >> apo mia taksiarxeia; Pigaine pes ta ayta stous typades tou US Army pou
> >> meta to Desert Storm apofasisan paromoies anadiorganwseis.
> >### Egw apo'ti xerw to US Army pou les esu, gamise ouk oligo kolaraki sto
> >Desert Storm. H kathe merarxia borei na leitourghsei kai san enoiao swma
> >alla epishs na diaspastei analoga me tis anagkes se mikrotera tmhmata,
> > den pauei omws na einai o kormos ths anexarthtos, (paromoia leitourgei
> >kai o Serbikos stratos )
>
> Otan kathisan katw t' Amerikanakia kai koitaksan ti egine sto Desert Storm
> diapistwsan pws orismenes monades pou leitourgousan ws aneksartites
> taksiarxies mporesan na metakinithoun kai na paroun theseis stin Saoudiki
> Arabia poly pio grigora kai organwmena apo tis megalyteres monades. O logos
> einai pws nai men fysika i kathe merarxia diaireitai se mikroteres monades
> alla otan i epimeliteia kai oli i logistiki ypostiriksi einai organwmeni
> sto epipedo merarxias einai pio dyskolo gia tis mikroteres omades na kinithoun
> aytonoma. Telos pantwn, ti to syzitaw mazi sou afou profanws arneisai na
> to katalabeis kai otan ginei (syntoma) kai i anadiorganwsi tou ellinikou
> stratou se paromoies baseis opws syzitietai tote prokeitai na kaneis ki ayti
> tin ypothesi gargara.
I ypothesi me ta brigades einai palioteri. Ektos apo tin epimeliteia
(commissariat=logistics BTW Evaggele) einai kai to provlima to organikwn
monadwn. Eksigw: Mia merarhia apoteleitai apo 3 syndagmata twn 3 tagmatwn
to kathena synithws. To kathe tagma ehei fantarous (profanws), recce
ohimata, anti-tank capability (twra pia bazoukofernoun ola afta mia kai
ta palia recoilless rifles einai arxaia), kapoio -mikro- anti-air
capability (sxedon panta foritoi -kai astoxoi- SAM, an kai borei na
yparhei kana aftokinoumeno AAA stis mixanokinites monades) kai elafry
pyrovoliko (twn 105 to poly). Twra sto epipedo merarxias erxontai to
divisional artillery (SP i towed, syberilamvanomenwn kai twn 155riwn), ta
kyriws AA opla, merikes fores kana independent tank battallion tetoia.
Twra, ama pas na sfaxteis se epipedo anatolikou metwpou ston WWII oi
merarxies (simeiwteon efevresi tou Napoleonta, opws kai to swma stratou)
einai mia xara. Alla gia tous mikropolemous tou typou Koreas kai meta
einai kapws megales kai agarbies. Opote mikraineis tin aneksartiti monada
se taksiarxia twn 2 syndagmatwn (6 anti gia 9 tagmata) kai etsi ehei
megalyteri ypostiriksi varewn oplwn gia tous fantarous sou. Fysika afto
apaitei (1) Perissotera varea opla mia kai yparhoun miamisi fora
perissoteres monades (2) Kalyteri aftokinisi tou pezikou (stin idaniki
periptwsi sto epipedo tou paliou Sovietikou stratou me ta BMP opou OLOI
oi fantaroi itan se APCs) gia na ekmetallefteis to pleonektima tou pio
eveliktou sximatismou. Ola afta einai IMHO pio simadika stin periptwsi
twn thwrakismenwn monadwn. To 1940 i eksypnada twn Germanwn itan pou
sygketrwsan ta tanks se merarxies i akoma kai se thwrakismena swmata
stratou enw oi alloi ta skorpizane anamesa sto peziko. I terastia anodos
tis aeroporias ektote omws, kathws kai twn antiarmatikwn oplwn pou kanoun
ton opoiodipote pezikario ikano na dialysei ena MBT, simainoun oti ama
mazepseis 2000 tanks se ena meros tha ta haseis grigorotera. Opote ta
tanks prepei na einai se brigades TO POLY (min pw battallions).
Fysika kai pali oi Rwsoi itan prwtoporoi s'ola afta. Oi anthrwpoi kserane
apo ksylo, as to paradextoume.
> Abdul
Favlos
Vasilios Pierre Iskos
> >Posted on 5 Jun 1995 at 18:37:07 by Vasilios Pierre Iskos
> >
> >> Akouse agorina mou, an thes na mou tin mpeis frontise na diabazeis kal=
a
> >> ti grafw prin anoikseis to stomataki sou kai peis malakeies. Egw den
> >### Milas gia malakies re Abdul, pou exeis xeskstei na dinies resital me
> >autes kathe mera
>=20
> Gegonos einai pws tis malakeies kai tis anakribeies (px. A-7, taksiarxies=
)
> esy tis les s' ayti ti syzitisi. Apo ekei kai pera apo ethnikistaro san t=
in
> afentia sou den perimena na min pisteyei pws grafw maalakeies.
### Ethnikistaros egw, Tourko-gluftaros esu. Sou eipa, tis malakies esu=20
tis xestomizeis kathe fora, gia paradeigma exeis anaferthei stis=20
taxiarxies xwris na exeis exakribwsh kan ton rolo tous. Pes kana duo=20
pragmata ths prokophs kai meta egw 'anabw tsigaro'.=20
Epishs exeis sugrinei ta A-7 me ta F-104. Kammia sxesh to ena aeroplano=20
me to allo. To ena aeroplano (A-7) einai elafru bombardistiko kai to allo=
=20
(F-104) einai 'Interceptor', me alla logia katadiwktiko.=20
>einai h monh xwra me exairesh ths HPA pou exoun to elafru bombardistiko -
> >> >A7 Corsair, tou opoiou o xeirismos einai exairetika duskolos. AUth d=
en
> >> >einai sumptwsh.
> >>
> >> Edw se pianw kai adiabasto (pou pas ksypolitos; :-). Ta A-7 ta exei ka=
i i
> >> Portogallia (A-7P). Me ti logiki sou kai oi Portogalloi tha eprepe na
> >> einai diasimoi ana ton kosmo pilotoi - alla den einai. Ase pou to A-7
> >> den einai toso dyskolo oso to F-104 pou eixame ki emeis kai oi Tourkoi=
kai
> >> oi Italoi kai oi Germanoi kai oi Ollandoi kai kai kai ...
> >>
=BAZ=F5*9> >### Otan oi Portogaloi parelambanan ta A-7, (teleutaies parados=
eis=20
eginan
> >mexri kai ta mesa 94', oi Ellhnes pilotoi petousan ta A-7 mesa apo to
> >Farragi Samarias. Oso gia ta F-104 , den uparxei pio axrhsto aeroplano.
>=20
> Kainourgia anakribeia. Agorina mou ta A-7 pou parelaban prosfata oi Porto=
gal-
> loi einai A-7E apo ta apothemata twn Amerikanikwn enoplwn dynamewn, san k=
ai
> ayta pou pirame prosfata kai emeis. I arxiki tous agora itan A-7P (eidika=
gia
> tin Portogallia opws itan ta A-7H gia emas) kai itan peripou tin idia epo=
xi
> me ti diki mas agora.
>=20
### Ta A-7H eixan kataskeuastei eidika gia mas (giauto kai to H=20
-Hellenic) giati ta original A-7 eixan fueling capabilities tis opoies=20
emeis den xreazomastan (elleipsh tankers, ktl.) Auto bebaia ta ekana pio=
=20
elafra kai pio grhgora, an kai meiothike h embeleia drashs tous. Oi=20
prwtes paralabes (olokainourgia kai to tonizw) xekinhsan to 73' kai=20
teliwsan to 78'. Oi Portogaloi ta phran 'sarabala' apo elehmosunes twn=20
Amerikanwn polla xronnia argotera - an thumamai kala phran dwdeka. Auta=20
gia tis malakies sou peri 'idies epoxes me ta dika mas'.
> >Oi Tourkoi blasthmhsan thn wra kai thn stigmh pou ta phran. Oxi mono
> >exoun problhma me tous khnitures tous alla kai ta randar tous
> >parousiazoun tromera problhmata.
>=20
> Ta F-104 ta eixan oi perissoteres xwres meli tou NATO, symperilambanomeni=
s
> tis Elladas (opote ta sxolia peri Tourkias den katalabainw pou kollane - =
an
> kapoioi blastimisan pragmatika aytoi itan oi Germanoi pou eixan foberes
> apwleies ston typo.) To problima tou F-104 den itan toso o kinitiras (J-7=
9,
> idios sta peripou m' ayton tou Phantom) alla oti itan poly eyaisthito sti=
s
`
### Ta sxolia kollane sthn mapa sou pou den xereis ti les. Oi Tourkoi=20
agorasan 150 F-104, kai meis 45. San Interceptor ta F-104 htan=20
sxediasmena gia electronic warfare, mono pou wpos sou eixa pei ta radar=20
tous den ebgalan ta problepomena apotelesmata. H Ellada omws, antitheta=20
me tous malakes tous O0wmannous thn phre prefa thn douleia kai koitaxe=20
siga siga na kalupsei tis anagkes tis me alla pio axiologa aeroplana. =20
Idou kai ta antikatasthsame perisu h propersu kai ta teleutaia, kai ta=20
steilame sto aerodromio sthn Tripolh na blepoun agwnes autokinitwn, parea=
=20
me ta F-5. Enw oi Tourkoi arga, arxisan kai autoi na ta antikatastoun=20
(exasan pollous pilotous wspou ebalan mualo) me F-16, emeis eixame hdh=20
paralabei ta dika mas F-16 kai ta Mirage F-1.
> >> >### Profanws den exeis katebei pote ghpedo na deis ti xulo peftei. D=
en
> >>
> >> Exw katebei kai den ksanapiga. :-)
> >>
> >### Ti egine se barese kana prezoni, h sou thn epese h kuria me ta foute=
r;
>=20
> Oxi kati kwloxouligkania san tin parti sou ekana lampougyala t' amaksi to=
u
> filou mou me ton opoio piga.
>=20
> >> >parragelies kai pes tous flwrous na deis gia pote tha sou kanoun prwk=
tikh
> >> >peritomh.
> >>
> >> ws gnwston oi peritomi mporei na ginei mono ekei pou kremetai petsaki
> >> kai apo ton kwlo mou den kremetai tipota tetoio.
> >
> >### Kala den sou'pa kai na psaxeis, alla afou epsaxes xairomai gia thn
> >exakribwsh.
>=20
> De xreiazotan na psaksw - ayto pou me problimatizei omws einai pou sou
> kollise i idea. ;->
> ### Egw upethesa kapoia stigmh pws eixe futrwsei glwssidi ston kwlo sou
>=20
>### Re Abdullalara mathe oti o ellhnikos stratos den pontarei (pote den
> >pontare) se taxiarxies. To basiko shmeio tou ellhnikou strato einai h
> >anadiorganwsh pou les kai su tis kathe Merarxias. H Merarxia (mia
> >merarxia kumenetai apo 8 mexri 12 xilliades antres) exei pio euelikto
> >sxhma kai xrhsimopoietai epeidh gewmetrika borei na kalupsh perrisotero
>=20
> MA kala mia megalyteri monada (opws i merarxia) exei pio eyelikto sxima
> apo mia taksiarxeia; Pigaine pes ta ayta stous typades tou US Army pou
> meta to Desert Storm apofasisan paromoies anadiorganwseis.
>=20
### Egw apo'ti xerw to US Army pou les esu, gamise ouk oligo kolaraki sto=
=20
Desert Storm. H kathe merarxia borei na leitourghsei kai san enoiao swma=
=20
alla epishs na diaspastei analoga me tis anagkes se mikrotera tmhmata,=20
den pauei omws na einai o kormos ths anexarthtos, (paromoia leitourgei=20
kai o Serbikos stratos )
> >metwpo. To 49' gia paradeigma h 9' Merarxia boukare sthn Pelopnhso kai
> >katharise se elaxistous mhnes xilliades koummounia san kai tou logou sou
>=20
> Pou'sai re Astera na diabaseis ti grafei o syntopitis sou. Kai na'mouna
> "koummouni" na'lega toulaxiston kammia bareia koubenta.
>=20
Asteras - Abdullah "ouna fatsa ouna ratsa"
> >kaluptontas polh grhgora to edafos estw kai xwris mhxanokhnhtes monades.
> >Oso gia poulhmata gnwsewn, kalutera mila ekei pou se pairnei ( An exoun
> >oi kwloi petsia ...)
>=20
> Oi imimatheis (ki an einai xouligkanoi san tin parti sou akoma xeirotera)
> telika einai xeiroteroi ki apo tous amatheis. Mexri stigmis oxi mono kane=
is
> lathi alla den ta paradexesai kai epimeneis.
> Abdul
> ### "Epimenw, perimenw, h zwh mou mish
Tourko-glufths esu, upomenw, perimenw ... "
BASILHS
Vasilios Pierre Iskos
pou eleges htan ena swro malakies - idou kai apodeixthei poios telika
egrafe tis baroufes ( thumizw ta peri taxiarxiwn, kai F-104 ).
Ekana lathh kai egw ( me to terminology ) kai oti anefera thn Ellada san
thn monh xwra pou exei A-7, sorry eixa xexasei thn Portogalia. Pantws
shmasia exei oti me sena skotiniase o ouranos apo thn baroufologia sou.
Aneferes oti eisai mauroukos kai pshlos 2 metra an thumamai kala, an
endiaferesai uparxei elleipsh apo 5ari sthn omada basket thn Ellhnikh.
Exoume eidh ena Yiougoslavo (Serbo) sthn omada mas kai psaxnoume gia
deutero xeno. Gia plhrofories : TAK PAO 1-800-GIANNAKO
Basilhs
Paul Kosmetatos
> Pou les re Abdullah, to mail pou esteile o Paulos apedeixe oti ontws auta
> pou eleges htan ena swro malakies - idou kai apodeixthei poios telika
> egrafe tis baroufes ( thumizw ta peri taxiarxiwn, kai F-104 ).
Ti prama? Ektos ki an ypnovatw den apedeiksa tipota tetoio. Apadisa sta
quiz peri mikrwn fterwn kai USAAF kai EPIVEVAIWSA afta pou elege o
Xasapis gia tis taksiarxies me leptomereis. An mi ti allo apedeiksa oti
aftos pou elege mparoufes (me tis merarxies na einai eksisou kales)
isoun esy. Mathe angnwsi.
> Ekana lathh kai egw ( me to terminology ) kai oti anefera thn Ellada san
> thn monh xwra pou exei A-7, sorry eixa xexasei thn Portogalia. Pantws
> shmasia exei oti me sena skotiniase o ouranos apo thn baroufologia sou.
Mia kai me anemeikses s'aftin tin ypothesi. Ola osa eipes itan oiktra
lathi: apo ta pursuit kai ta A7 ws tis taksiarxies. Kai pare prefa oti
kai na eheis "dikio" i "adiko" den dinoume dyara. Constructive syzitisi
kanoume (stin prokeimeni periptwsi), oxi epivevaiwsi tou andrismou mas.
Opote a pae kata limani meria na mou peis an kounane oi varkes.
> Aneferes oti eisai mauroukos kai pshlos 2 metra an thumamai kala, an
> endiaferesai uparxei elleipsh apo 5ari sthn omada basket thn Ellhnikh.
> Exoume eidh ena Yiougoslavo (Serbo) sthn omada mas kai psaxnoume gia
> deutero xeno. Gia plhrofories : TAK PAO 1-800-GIANNAKO
An koitakseis to roster tou University of Providence NCAA varsity
basketball team gia to 1993-1994 tha deis "guard: Abdul Abdullah". An de
me pisteveis rwta sto rec.sport.basketball.college. O en logw
skourohrwmos (ela kai PC o dikos mou :-)) paizei arketa kali pelota kai
ton eida kai proswpika na kseskizei to Villanova me buzzer beater persi.
Opote o Abdul Abdullah apo to Providence einai yparkto proswpo. Oxi paizoume.
> Basilhs
Favlos