Stratoligika

eugene simos

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

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Gia se olous sas.
Apo tin sizitisi sxetika me ta stratologika ton anupotakton eida oti
polla atoma exoun ena misos (mipos einai
complexika ???) me orismenous pou gia diaforous logous des exoun
upiretisi tin thiteia tous (anamesa tous eimai kai egw). den katala
giati o tonos ton "posts" exei pesei toso xamila ?? (mipos giati i
iperifani ellines "esso ???" exoun tin "boula" tou patrioti kai einai
pio "patriotes" apo emas ???

Egw loipon eimai "monimos" apo to 89. exw "xeni" upikootita apo to 91,
kai mia strwmeni koinoniki zwi. se oli tin diarkia ton spoudwn mou i
ellada den mou edwse mia draxmi .Fisika sinantisa polles diskolies apo
"imeterous" tou stil "kala re malaka nomizeis oti me to didaktoriko tha
breis mia douleia ??", kai ola auta ta atoma eixan kanei tin "theitia"
tous san kaloi patriotes stin Athina, ston Peiraia, kai alllou. To thema
tou Ph.D eixe thema 100% me tin ellada, alla otan teleiwsa etuxe na brw
mai douleia, enw gurnwnstas "YPERIFANA" stin ellada tha ekana 2 xronia
thitias ston ebro (mesa then eixame stin oikogenia oute me dexia oute me
aristera ), kai tha xekinaga tin zwi mou sta 31, xwris na eimai sigouros
oti meta to stratiotiko tha mporousa na axiopoiiso ta xronia pou perasa
me strerisis sa fititis.

twra eimai 35, exw ena paidi douleia ktlp ktlp, nomizete oti mporw na
stamatisw tin zow mou gia 6 mines kai na pao na to paixw "PATRIOTIS".
Poios tha zisi tin oikogenia mou edw ?? Sta 35 oi sta 40 oloi emeis pou
eimaste MONIMA EGATESTIMENOI sto exwteriko nomijetai oti tha
stamatisoume mia zwi gia na pame na zisoume mia "empiria" ?? Egw
prosopika to mono pou thelo einai na mporo na paw me ton gio mou kamia
fora stin Ellada gia na gnorisi tous "thious thies, papoudes ktlp". Ti
tha xrisimeusi sto "ELLINIKO ETHNOS" mia thitia 6 minwn (to ipoloipo to
xeplironoume paides se sinalagma !!!!) ???

Edw bebaia katalbainw giati san xwra man exoun pidixei oloi. An etixan
merikoi kai den ekanan fantari prepi na tous xegrapsoume telios ?? Apo
osous exw gnwrisi stin idia periptosi me emena, KANEIS den to PAIZEI
MAGAS GIATI DEN PIGE FANTAROS. To mono pou xeroume einai oti i elllada
(bravo patriotes pou pigate strato!!!) mas pernai gia "ILITHIOUS".

i mimi pote den petheni !!!

--
########################################################################

Eugene Simos

AT&T Laboratories
Tour Horizon PHONE: (+33) 1 4767 4652
Mobile: (+33) 611 86 1312
52 Quai de Dion Bouton FAX: (+33) 1 4767 4670
92806 Puteaux
France

e-mail : eug...@attlabs.com
http://www.labs.emea.att.com/

########################################################################

Periklis Gogas

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

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Katse re file Eugene alla den mas ta les kai poly kala!

Na pv katarxhn oti egv den exv paei akoma strato alla to 1998 poy
lhgei kai h anabolh moy ua thn kanv gia thn mama patrida gia na yphrethsv
18 mhnes eite ston Ebro eite sto Kastelorizo eite sthn polh moy th
Thessaloniki.

Na mas ejhghseis prvta giati "mas pernaei h Ellada gia hliuioys"!
Ti ennoeis dhladh;

Mas les oti kala poy eisai ston paradeiso ths Amerikhs kai eisai
pantremenos exeis paidi doyleia kai tetoia. Vraia! Dhladh an hsoyna sthn
Ellada den ua eixes gynaika kai paidi;;;; h' mhpvs doyleia;;; allh mia
ejhghsh poy mas xrvstas :-)

Na symplhrvsv tvra oti o stratos gia mena den einai oyte sxoleio,
oyte emepeiria oyte tipote apo ola ayta. Einai ena anagkaio kako! poy omvs
exoyme thn ypoxrevsh oloi oi Ellhnes na ypostoyme. Makari na eimastan sth
gevgrafikh uesh ths Elbatias h' toy Kanada poy briskomai kai na mhn
xreiazotane na exoyme kauoloy strato! Alla dystyxvs ta pragmata den einai
etsi! Rvta ta "filarakia" mas toys Toyrkoys.

An loipon ueleis na phgaineis sthn Ellada gia na blepei o gios soy
toys papoydes, ueioys gia dikaopes klp, aparaithth proypouesh einai na
yparxei h Ellada. Kai xvris ton strato na eisai sigoyros oti den ua
yparxei!

Gia sena babaia poy eisai monimos katoikos toy ejvterikoy me jenh
yphkoothta mporeis na phgaineis sthn Ellada gia diasthma oxi megalytero
tvn 6 mhnvn opvs oloi oi jeneoi polites. Opote gia na mhn pas strato ua
prepei na uysiaseis mallon to na zhseis sthn Ellada. An ayto soy aresei
good for you. Alla yparxoyn kai oi xiliades ekeinoi poy ua uysiasoyn 18 h'
12 h' 6 mhnes gia na zoyn sthn Ellada. It's just a valuation problem!

Kai tvra mh moy sigkrineis th zvh sthn Ellada kai thn zvh edv!!!

Filika,

Periklis Gogas "Is the Power of love worth the
Ph.D. Student pain of loss ?"
Department of Economics THE JAMES
University of Calgary http://www.ucalgary.ca/~pgogas/
CANADA

Dimitri Botsis

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

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eug...@attlabs.com grafei:

>Gia se olous sas.

Geia sou kai se sena.

(snip)

>Egw loipon eimai "monimos" apo to 89. exw "xeni" upikootita apo to 91,
>kai mia strwmeni koinoniki zwi. se oli tin diarkia ton spoudwn mou i
>ellada den mou edwse mia draxmi .Fisika sinantisa polles diskolies apo
>"imeterous" tou stil "kala re malaka nomizeis oti me to didaktoriko tha
>breis mia douleia ??", kai ola auta ta atoma eixan kanei tin "theitia"
>tous san kaloi patriotes stin Athina, ston Peiraia, kai alllou. To thema
>tou Ph.D eixe thema 100% me tin ellada, alla otan teleiwsa etuxe na brw
>mai douleia, enw gurnwnstas "YPERIFANA" stin ellada tha ekana 2 xronia
>thitias ston ebro (mesa then eixame stin oikogenia oute me dexia oute me
>aristera ), kai tha xekinaga tin zwi mou sta 31, xwris na eimai sigouros
>oti meta to stratiotiko tha mporousa na axiopoiiso ta xronia pou perasa
>me strerisis sa fititis.

Stasou re file kai mena h "Ellada" de mou edwse mia draxmh gia tis spoudes mou!
Kai ta alla paidia pou einai edw mesa me upotrofies twn kollegiwn tous h' me
ta proswpika tous oikonomika mesa ta bgazoun pera. Ti nomizeis oti eisai o
monos Ellhnas pou perase sterhseis sta foithtika tou xronia;

Me geia sou kai xara sou gia to PhD. sou kai na to xairese twra malista pou
to "a3iopoieis".
Alla na sou kanw thn e3hs parathrhsh...

>twra eimai 35, exw ena paidi douleia ktlp ktlp, nomizete oti mporw na
>stamatisw tin zow mou gia 6 mines kai na pao na to paixw "PATRIOTIS".
>Poios tha zisi tin oikogenia mou edw ?? Sta 35 oi sta 40 oloi emeis pou
>eimaste MONIMA EGATESTIMENOI sto exwteriko nomijetai oti tha
>stamatisoume mia zwi gia na pame na zisoume mia "empiria" ?? Egw
>prosopika to mono pou thelo einai na mporo na paw me ton gio mou kamia
>fora stin Ellada gia na gnorisi tous "thious thies, papoudes ktlp". Ti
>tha xrisimeusi sto "ELLINIKO ETHNOS" mia thitia 6 minwn (to ipoloipo to
>xeplironoume paides se sinalagma !!!!) ???

Re file afou epele3es na alla3eis i8ageneia ti se noiazei gia to stratiwtiko;
Ase pou sthn hlikia pou eisai poio polu baros 8a eisai para 8a prosfereis!

Alla blepw omws ton tourismo sou sthn Elladitsa 8eleis na ton kaneis!
(Kai pistepse me den exw kanena apolutws problhma! Makari na erxesai kai na
afhneis ta fragka sou sthn patrida mou!)

Esena eidika den mporw na sou pw kai tipota dioti epele3es na apopoih8eis
twn upoxrewsewn sou ws Ellhnas kai twra eisai Gallos poliths (me strwmenh
douleia kai ola ta parelkomena mias kata3iemenhs gallikhs zwhs!)
Aporw ti se noiazei h olh upo8esh afou exei 3efugei pleon;Kai malista exeis
3efugei gia ta kala!
H sxesh sou me thn Ellada 8a einai oi "8eioi" kai oi "8eies" se liga xronia
malista otan to paidi, h to eggoni sou 8a exei 3exasei na milaei ellhika
tote h sxesh sou me thn Ellada 8a einai akoma pio tupikh...ews anuparkth!
Gia auto sou lew mhn sugxizesai me tous "patriwtes"...ase o ka8enas na trabaei
to dromo tou (analoga me tis protairewthtes kai ta pisteuw tou) :-)

>Edw bebaia katalbainw giati san xwra man exoun pidixei oloi. An etixan
>merikoi kai den ekanan fantari prepi na tous xegrapsoume telios ?? Apo
>osous exw gnwrisi stin idia periptosi me emena, KANEIS den to PAIZEI
>MAGAS GIATI DEN PIGE FANTAROS. To mono pou xeroume einai oti i elllada
>(bravo patriotes pou pigate strato!!!) mas pernai gia "ILITHIOUS".

Oxi file mou h Ellada, kati san kai sas (pou thn brizete h' pou koitate na thn
skapoularete apo tis upoxrewseis sas) DEN SAS XREIAZETAI!

Posa kai posa paradeigmata uparxoun paidiwn edw mesa pou KAI thn 8hteia tous
kanane KAI thn karriera tous ftai3ane (o grafwn 8elei na pitseuei oti einai
enas apo autous pou oute kai thn karriera tou 3ekinhsan na ftiaxnoun kai tis
upoxrweseis tous ekplhrwsane - tipota perissotero tipota ligwtero)!!!!

Alla eipame... esu pleon eisai Gallos poliths kai 8a prepei na ais8anesai
uperhfanos pou h xwra sthn opoia epele3es na zeis kai na apoteleis meros tou
plh8usmou ths einai "proodeumenh" toso, pou na mhn se upoxrewnei na uphreteis
tis Enoples Dynameis ths.

A,nai! Kanenas den sas pernaei gia hli8ious, ka8e allo! Aplws o ka8enas kanei
tis epiloges tou me ton ena tropo h' to allo!

>--
>########################################################################

> Eugene Simos

> AT&T Laboratories
> Tour Horizon PHONE: (+33) 1 4767 4652
> Mobile: (+33) 611 86 1312
> 52 Quai de Dion Bouton FAX: (+33) 1 4767 4670
> 92806 Puteaux
> France

Dimitris

Vassilis Koutsos

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

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Pws 0a blepeis 0eious - 0eious to paidi sou an den yparxei
Ellada; (Ektos an de se peirazei oi 0eioi kai oi 0eies
na forane sariki, opote san amerikano yphkoos 0a se exoune
sta opa opa ois arxes). Alla as paroume sa pio pi0anh (0elw
na pisteuw thn prwth periprwsh). Pws 0a yparxei Ellada
an den exoume strato; Kai gia na exeis file mou ta
idia dikaiwmata me auton pou to xreos tou (to anagaio
kako pou eipe kapoios, ki emena de me en0ousiazei h idea
oti se ligo h mama patrida me kalei) prepei ki esy
na kopseis ton kolo sou to xreos sou na kaneis. Pws
kai pou 0a afhsw oikogeneia klpklp na ta skeftosouna nwritera.
It's your problem.
Gia na e3hgoume den ta exw me tous anypotaktous pou 3erw
oi perissoteroi 0eloun na yphrethsoun kai angnwrizoun
to xreos tous. Alla oxi
kai na dikaiologountai ta adikaiologhta. Aman pia!!!
Basilhs

Petros Petropoulos

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

Periklis Gogas <pgo...@ACS.UCALGARY.CA> grafei:

>An ayto soy aresei
>good for you. Alla yparxoyn kai oi xiliades ekeinoi poy ua uysiasoyn 18 h'
>12 h' 6 mhnes gia na zoyn sthn Ellada. It's just a valuation problem!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edw gelave (n mallov, klavouve)...0usiazovtai me ta
seloular, tous goveis va tous perimevouv se ka0e limavi pros Rodo gia
va tous dwsouv tis sokolates tous n to teleutaio CD twv ``Guns'n Roses''
k.l.p.

Petros

Petros Petropoulos

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

eug...@attlabs.com grafei:

>twra eimai 35, exw ena paidi douleia ktlp ktlp, nomizete oti mporw na
>stamatisw tin zow mou gia 6 mines kai na pao na to paixw "PATRIOTIS".
>Poios tha zisi tin oikogenia mou edw ??

Dev exeis katalabei Eugevie oti oi diaforoi ``Lavtzides'' edw mesa eivai
eksexwvta meln tou sullogou KPP (Katavalwtes Patrikns Periousias) kai oti
o mesos ``patriwtns-Ellnvaras'' stnv Ellada arxizei va bgazei to pswmi tou
meta ta 35 tou (n pio vwris av ta tsougkrisei me tov ``gero'' tou)...

Petros

Ilias Lantzis

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

Kurie eugene..

Profanos eisate toso acogos sta nea sas ka8hkonta, sthn nea sas patrida ,
opote den distasate na filhsete tous Gallous "summaxous" mas kanontas to
onoma sas eugene...

diabaste sas parakalw allo mou e-mail, pros antisthxh periptwsh.

Se genikes grammes, den me piasate... Ean exete oles tis nomikes
proupo8eshs na mhn kanete 8hteia, MPRABO sas. Kanena problhma. Ean exete
apokthsei Permit de Sejour (sorry gia ta galika mou alla paei kairos pou
efuga apo thn gallia opou ezhsa gia tria xronia) magkia sas.. Ean exete
apokthsei plhrh dikaiwmata, KANENA problhma. Sigoura to euergethma tou
na mhn pate strato isoropei me alles upoxrewseis kai sterhseis pou exete
logo ths neas sas idiothtas.

O komplejismos pou anaferete sto munhma sas malon esas exei kuriecei..
Malon exete toso polu ephreastei apo thn "glukia" (an kai se jenitia) zwh
pou MISHTE kuriolektika thn poutana thn Patrida sas.. Mporei h Ellas na
mhn sas edwse draxmh, alla fulouse upo8etw tous tafous twn progown sas kai
thn oikogeneia sas oso kairo eseis eixate thn poluteleia na spoudazete sto
ejwteriko.. Kai to ean fernete sunallagma sthn Patrida einai entelws
asxeto.. profanos to fernete gia na to jodecete eseis kai h oikogeneia
sas.. Kai egw fernw sunallagma, kai malista polu kurie... Tunxainei na
exw mia ejagwgikh etaireia STHN Ellada..

Kai na jerete kati.. Den pane oloi oi fantaroi ston Ebro.. uparxoun kai ta
nhsia, kai exoun kai wraio kairo :))

Oxi kurie, den htan anagkh na pate strato sta 31 sas.. 8a mporousate na
exete paei sta 18 sas.. Otan oute paidi eixate, oute ta fragkika arguria..
Afou loipon ftusate thn Patrida sas gia to Camembert kai thn entrecote
tote, kalh sas orejh!!!!

Filikotata, (o ka8enas mas kanei tis epiloges tou)

Ilias Lantzis

On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, eugene simos wrote:

> Gia se olous sas.
> Apo tin sizitisi sxetika me ta stratologika ton anupotakton eida oti
> polla atoma exoun ena misos (mipos einai
> complexika ???) me orismenous pou gia diaforous logous des exoun
> upiretisi tin thiteia tous (anamesa tous eimai kai egw). den katala
> giati o tonos ton "posts" exei pesei toso xamila ?? (mipos giati i
> iperifani ellines "esso ???" exoun tin "boula" tou patrioti kai einai
> pio "patriotes" apo emas ???
>

> Egw loipon eimai "monimos" apo to 89. exw "xeni" upikootita apo to 91,
> kai mia strwmeni koinoniki zwi. se oli tin diarkia ton spoudwn mou i
> ellada den mou edwse mia draxmi .Fisika sinantisa polles diskolies apo
> "imeterous" tou stil "kala re malaka nomizeis oti me to didaktoriko tha
> breis mia douleia ??", kai ola auta ta atoma eixan kanei tin "theitia"
> tous san kaloi patriotes stin Athina, ston Peiraia, kai alllou. To thema
> tou Ph.D eixe thema 100% me tin ellada, alla otan teleiwsa etuxe na brw
> mai douleia, enw gurnwnstas "YPERIFANA" stin ellada tha ekana 2 xronia
> thitias ston ebro (mesa then eixame stin oikogenia oute me dexia oute me
> aristera ), kai tha xekinaga tin zwi mou sta 31, xwris na eimai sigouros
> oti meta to stratiotiko tha mporousa na axiopoiiso ta xronia pou perasa
> me strerisis sa fititis.
>

> twra eimai 35, exw ena paidi douleia ktlp ktlp, nomizete oti mporw na
> stamatisw tin zow mou gia 6 mines kai na pao na to paixw "PATRIOTIS".

> Poios tha zisi tin oikogenia mou edw ?? Sta 35 oi sta 40 oloi emeis pou
> eimaste MONIMA EGATESTIMENOI sto exwteriko nomijetai oti tha
> stamatisoume mia zwi gia na pame na zisoume mia "empiria" ?? Egw
> prosopika to mono pou thelo einai na mporo na paw me ton gio mou kamia
> fora stin Ellada gia na gnorisi tous "thious thies, papoudes ktlp". Ti
> tha xrisimeusi sto "ELLINIKO ETHNOS" mia thitia 6 minwn (to ipoloipo to
> xeplironoume paides se sinalagma !!!!) ???
>

> Edw bebaia katalbainw giati san xwra man exoun pidixei oloi. An etixan
> merikoi kai den ekanan fantari prepi na tous xegrapsoume telios ?? Apo
> osous exw gnwrisi stin idia periptosi me emena, KANEIS den to PAIZEI
> MAGAS GIATI DEN PIGE FANTAROS. To mono pou xeroume einai oti i elllada
> (bravo patriotes pou pigate strato!!!) mas pernai gia "ILITHIOUS".
>

> i mimi pote den petheni !!!
>

> --
> ########################################################################
>
> Eugene Simos
>
> AT&T Laboratories
> Tour Horizon PHONE: (+33) 1 4767 4652
> Mobile: (+33) 611 86 1312
> 52 Quai de Dion Bouton FAX: (+33) 1 4767 4670
> 92806 Puteaux
> France
>

Ilias Lantzis

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

Na suplhrwsw file Periklh oti o kurios eugene htan polu tuxeros pou to
amour tou goustare Gallia (dioti ekei menei).. Ean px eixe mia kopelia na
ton perimenei sthn Ellada, na eisai sigouros oti 8a mas elege shmera
"EImai perhfanos pou 8a paw fantaros..klp klp"

Ilias Lantzis
PS.. Fantazesai na eixe mplejei me tourkala??:)))) (opws o.. pws ton lene
ton trello ths listas me ta BABYLON-5 kai thn Elif tou???)

> prepei na uysiaseis mallon to na zhseis sthn Ellada. An ayto soy aresei

> good for you. Alla yparxoyn kai oi xiliades ekeinoi poy ua uysiasoyn 18 h'
> 12 h' 6 mhnes gia na zoyn sthn Ellada. It's just a valuation problem!
>

> Kai tvra mh moy sigkrineis th zvh sthn Ellada kai thn zvh edv!!!
>
> Filika,
>
>
> Periklis Gogas "Is the Power of love worth the
> Ph.D. Student pain of loss ?"
> Department of Economics THE JAMES
> University of Calgary http://www.ucalgary.ca/~pgogas/
> CANADA
>

Ilias Lantzis

unread,

Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

Kulhse o tentzerhs kai brike to kapaki..

Ase mas re blakopoule.. mas kaneis kai kritikh gia tous porous mas..
Blaka, e, blaka.. Egw magkako mou, kai thn 8hteia mou ekana, kai douleca
wraia kai kala, kai me ta fragka pou apokthsa, eipa na spoudasw, kai mou
meinan kai merika kai mporesa kai pantreuthka, kai ama gurisw me to kalo
ekei pou esu pote den 8a mporeis na katseis panw apo 6 mhnes, 8a exw zwh
xarisamenh... esu blaka mou, ektos tou oti se taizei h gunaika sou, kai
exeis kruftei sto USA giati se caxnei h stratonomia, den exeis tipote allo
na deijeis apo thn zwh sou.... FAE SKATA JANA BLAKA>>

Ilias Lantzis

On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Petros Petropoulos wrote:

> eug...@attlabs.com grafei:

>
> >twra eimai 35, exw ena paidi douleia ktlp ktlp, nomizete oti mporw na
> >stamatisw tin zow mou gia 6 mines kai na pao na to paixw "PATRIOTIS".
> >Poios tha zisi tin oikogenia mou edw ??
>

eugene

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

At 11:50 07/04/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Kurie eugene..
>
>Profanos eisate toso acogos sta nea sas ka8hkonta, sthn nea sas patrida ,
>opote den distasate na filhsete tous Gallous "summaxous" mas kanontas to
>onoma sas eugene...
>

me lene eugene i eugeni i eugenie i eugenio den exw pros to parwn proglima
me to onoma mou :) agapite ilia !. Oso gia summaxies Galloi, Aggloi, i
Americani .....
min xenas file ilia oti o Kapodistrias dolophonithike apo Ellines (pou
bebaia eixan polemisi tous Tourkous)...

>diabaste sas parakalw allo mou e-mail, pros antisthxh periptwsh.
>

eimai neos stin lista tis hellas (kai anipotaktos, mipos parnomysa ?)
suxwriste me loipon gia tin agnoia mou

>Se genikes grammes, den me piasate... Ean exete oles tis nomikes
>proupo8eshs na mhn kanete 8hteia, MPRABO sas. Kanena problhma. Ean exete
>apokthsei Permit de Sejour (sorry gia ta galika mou alla paei kairos pou
>efuga apo thn gallia opou ezhsa gia tria xronia) magkia sas.. Ean exete
>apokthsei plhrh dikaiwmata, KANENA problhma. Sigoura to euergethma tou
>na mhn pate strato isoropei me alles upoxrewseis kai sterhseis pou exete
>logo ths neas sas idiothtas.
>

to problima pou eida diabazontas ola ta "post" einai oti iparxoun oi men =
"autoi pou pigan starto == KALOI" kai oi den ="oi kakoi autoi pou
"loufaroun" kai ....". Genika mporoume na suzitisoume xwris na brizwmaste
(oxi oti epeidi eimasate makria apo tin ellada exoume ksexasi kai ta
ellinika mas ....)

>O komplejismos pou anaferete sto munhma sas malon esas exei kuriecei..
>Malon exete toso polu ephreastei apo thn "glukia" (an kai se jenitia) zwh
>pou MISHTE kuriolektika thn poutana thn Patrida sas..

pios more sou milise gia POUTANES kai gia MISH ??? Mipos eisai apo autous
pou prin apo kati dekaeties aforizan ton Kazatzaki kai simera ton
proskinane san megalo logotexni ??

Mporei h Ellas na
>mhn sas edwse draxmh, alla fulouse upo8etw tous tafous twn progown sas kai
>thn oikogeneia sas oso kairo eseis eixate thn poluteleia na spoudazete sto
>ejwteriko..

I Ellada den mou edwse draxmi. Den exw problima file mou me tin Ellada alla
me tous "dithen" fariseous pou tin exoun KATARIMAXI me to prosxima oti an
den ipirxan auti emis i ipolipi (le menu frottin :) (einai galliakio)) tha
eixame psofisi. an stin Ellada ipirxe ligotero meso kai perisoteri
axiokratia isws simera ena megalo meros apo emas na itan simera stin
Ellada. Otan o pateras mou pige stin stratologia tin proti fora o
statologos tou eipe "DEN EINAI OUTE O PROTOS OUTE O TELAITEUOS. TO XEROULME
OTI MIA MEGALI PLEIOPSIFIA MENEI STO EXOTERIKO".

Kai to ean fernete sunallagma sthn Patrida einai entelws
>asxeto.. profanos to fernete gia na to jodecete eseis kai h oikogeneia
>sas.. Kai egw fernw sunallagma, kai malista polu kurie... Tunxainei na
>exw mia ejagwgikh etaireia STHN Ellada..
>

Bravo sou re file kai kala kaneis. Egw eimai misthotos ipallilos ::)). Oso
gia to sunallagma den pisteuw oti oi liges fores pou pithanon na erthw (?)
tha swsoun ton proypologismo.

>Kai na jerete kati.. Den pane oloi oi fantaroi ston Ebro.. uparxoun kai ta
>nhsia, kai exoun kai wraio kairo :))
>
>Oxi kurie, den htan anagkh na pate strato sta 31 sas.. 8a mporousate na
>exete paei sta 18 sas.. Otan oute paidi eixate, oute ta fragkika arguria..
>Afou loipon ftusate thn Patrida sas gia to Camembert kai thn entrecote
>tote, kalh sas orejh!!!!
>
>Filikotata, (o ka8enas mas kanei tis epiloges tou)
>
>Ilias Lantzis

Blepeis files Ilia to problima gia mia megali meritha anipotaktwn den einai
oti tha mas stiloun sta nisia (sik stin Santorin eixe mia monada
"disiplinaire" ..) oi ston ebro (den eimaste blepeis ithopoioi, kalitexnes,
oi otidipote allo ...). Xwris bebaia ta gnwsta kapsonia gia merikous
"kutta re ton malaka pou nomize oti tha glitwne ton strato...To eidate
kaneis den xefeugei...". Sta 35 oi kai parapanw nomizeis eilikrina oti 6-9
i kai perisoteroi mines thitias (kai me exagora) tha boithsoun tin Ellada
na xeperasei ena problima ??.
Edw stw exwteriko pantws ilia iparxei 80% axiokratia kai 20% tenekedes
(fragkika arguria.). Stin Ellada i analogia einai antitheti. Mporei merikoi
san esena na trwne se tavernes kai na kanoun boltes me Mercedes (oi me BMW
giati oxi) alla i ipoloipi anagkazwntai na exoun duo douleies gia na zisoun.
To idio sistima einai kai edw (trw camember kai steak, pizza, alla kai
spanakopita kai pinw kai du vin "rouge" et apres tout pourqoi pas ????
A bientot file Ilias...

>
>
>
>On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, eugene simos wrote:
>
>> Gia se olous sas.
>> Apo tin sizitisi sxetika me ta stratologika ton anupotakton eida oti
>> polla atoma exoun ena misos (mipos einai
>> complexika ???) me orismenous pou gia diaforous logous des exoun
>> upiretisi tin thiteia tous (anamesa tous eimai kai egw). den katala
>> giati o tonos ton "posts" exei pesei toso xamila ?? (mipos giati i
>> iperifani ellines "esso ???" exoun tin "boula" tou patrioti kai einai
>> pio "patriotes" apo emas ???
>>
>> Egw loipon eimai "monimos" apo to 89. exw "xeni" upikootita apo to 91,
>> kai mia strwmeni koinoniki zwi. se oli tin diarkia ton spoudwn mou i
>> ellada den mou edwse mia draxmi .Fisika sinantisa polles diskolies apo
>> "imeterous" tou stil "kala re malaka nomizeis oti me to didaktoriko tha
>> breis mia douleia ??", kai ola auta ta atoma eixan kanei tin "theitia"
>> tous san kaloi patriotes stin Athina, ston Peiraia, kai alllou. To thema
>> tou Ph.D eixe thema 100% me tin ellada, alla otan teleiwsa etuxe na brw
>> mai douleia, enw gurnwnstas "YPERIFANA" stin ellada tha ekana 2 xronia
>> thitias ston ebro (mesa then eixame stin oikogenia oute me dexia oute me
>> aristera ), kai tha xekinaga tin zwi mou sta 31, xwris na eimai sigouros
>> oti meta to stratiotiko tha mporousa na axiopoiiso ta xronia pou perasa
>> me strerisis sa fititis.
>>

>> twra eimai 35, exw ena paidi douleia ktlp ktlp, nomizete oti mporw na
>> stamatisw tin zow mou gia 6 mines kai na pao na to paixw "PATRIOTIS".

Petros Petropoulos

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

Ilias Lantzis <ili...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> paramilaei:

>Egw magkako mou, kai thn 8hteia mou ekana, kai douleca
>wraia kai kala, kai me ta fragka pou apokthsa, eipa na spoudasw, kai mou
>meinan kai merika kai mporesa kai pantreuthka,

Edwses kai proika stn legamevn n' se pnre giati se lupn0nke ? H mnpws ntav
to ``dwro'' katopiv twv toswv prospa0eiwv kai mox0wv pou perases gia va
ftaseis sta upsn pou eftases ?

>kai ama gurisw me to kalo
>ekei pou esu pote den 8a mporeis na katseis panw apo 6 mhnes, 8a exw zwh
>xarisamenh...

Na piveis kafe stnv Glufada kai va trexeis me 200 km/h stnv Poseidwvos...
auta ta ksexases...kai gamw tous autoskopous...

>esu blaka mou, ektos tou oti se taizei h gunaika sou, kai
>exeis kruftei sto USA giati se caxnei h stratonomia, den exeis tipote allo
>na deijeis apo thn zwh sou.

Eipame: ``mnv kriveis eks idiwv ta allotria''...

Petros

Vassilis Koutsos

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

O Petropoulos me to synh0es pneuma au0entias egrace
>
> eug...@attlabs.com grafei:

>
> >twra eimai 35, exw ena paidi douleia ktlp ktlp, nomizete oti mporw na
> >stamatisw tin zow mou gia 6 mines kai na pao na to paixw "PATRIOTIS".
> >Poios tha zisi tin oikogenia mou edw ??
>

> Dev exeis katalabei Eugevie oti oi diaforoi ``Lavtzides'' edw mesa eivai
> eksexwvta meln tou sullogou KPP (Katavalwtes Patrikns Periousias) kai oti
> o mesos ``patriwtns-Ellnvaras'' stnv Ellada arxizei va bgazei to pswmi tou
> meta ta 35 tou (n pio vwris av ta tsougkrisei me tov ``gero'' tou)...
>
> Petros

Petropoule stamata na kaneis genikeuseis pou den
isxyoun kai na les ta pramata etsi opws se symferoun.
To Lantzh oute ton 3erw oute me 3erei alla an einai dynaton
dhl. "o mesos 'patriwths-Ellhnaras' sthn Ellada" na kanei
auto pou les. An pragmatika to pisteueis auto apatasai
oiktra.
Egw pantws dexomai na pei kapoios "brhka douleia kai san
de 0elw na xasw thn eukaireia, alla katalabaine oti einai la0os
kai 0elw na bre0ei enas tropos na plrwsw to xreos pou eixa
sthn patrida". Apo kei kai pera na
na prospa0eis na dikaiologhseis ta adikaiologhta oti o mesos
Ellhnaras einai xaramofahs enw egw den eimai kai desme egw
poso petyxhmenos eimai enw esy trws ta lefta tou mpampa sou.
E! ti na pw !!!!

Logikh tou paralogou.
Mallon proion tycewn alla egw nomizw oti eisai aplws biased
me ka0eti ellhniko.

Basilhs

Mary Kalamaki

unread,

Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

Periklis Gogas wrote:
>
> Katse re file Eugene alla den mas ta les kai poly kala!
>
> Na pv katarxhn oti egv den exv paei akoma strato alla to 1998 poy
> lhgei kai h anabolh moy ua thn kanv gia thn mama patrida gia na yphrethsv
> 18 mhnes eite ston Ebro eite sto Kastelorizo eite sthn polh moy th
> Thessaloniki.
>

Periklh, kala ta les alla na sou kanw mia erwthsh:
Ypo0etw oti me to telos ths anabolhs sou 0a exeis teleiwsei kai to phd
sou kai
opws les
0a gyriseis pisw na pas strato. Apanthse mou loipon ti 0a ekanes an me
th lhksh
ths
anabolhs sou hsoun akomh sth mesh apo to didaktoriko sou; Kserw arketa
paidia
edw sth
perioxh pou tous sunebhke auto akribws. Se auth thn periptwsh ti kaneis;
Paratas
to phd
na pas strato kai meta na guriseis na sunexeiseis (kai ti 0a ginei me to
project
pou
exeis, to grand pou plhrwnei gia tis spoudes sou "kai oxi o mpampas",
ton
ka0hghth pou
se piezei klp) h 0a bgeis anupotaktos;
Auto pou prospa0w na pw einai oti mhpws 0a eprepe na uparxei kapia
ru0mish gia
auto to
0ema. Toulaxisto ta paidia pou kserw egw den prospa0oun na apofugoun to
strato
oute na
uphrethsoun meiwmenh 0hteia, apla 0eloun thn eukairia na teleiwsoun tis
spoudes
tous kai
na mporoun na episkeutoun tous goneis tous sthn Ellada. Kai thn epomenh
mera pou
0a
paroun to kwloxarto sto xeri gyrnoun pisw kai uphretoun tous 18 tous
mhnes.
Sas parakalw mhn mou apanthsete oti eimai gunaika kai den kserw tipota
gia to
strato klp
klp klp.
Filika,
Maipn K.

Ilias Lantzis

unread,

Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

File Eugenie (mou aresei perissotero :))

> to problima pou eida diabazontas ola ta "post" einai oti iparxoun oi men =
> "autoi pou pigan starto == KALOI" kai oi den ="oi kakoi autoi pou
> "loufaroun" kai ....". Genika mporoume na suzitisoume xwris na brizwmaste
> (oxi oti epeidi eimasate makria apo tin ellada exoume ksexasi kai ta
> ellinika mas ....)

To 8ema den einai an uparxoun "kaloi" kai "kakoi".. Oute caxnoume na
broume anagnwrish h' timwries gia ka8e kathgoria...

Shmasia exei na doume cuxraima kai logika, o ka8enas ejw apo to kabouki
tou, pws 8a mporouse ena tetoio problhma na lu8ei..

kai ejhgw: EInai emfanestata ena koinwniko, oikonomiko, e8niko, kai
politiko problhma to toso megalo pososto anupotaktwn. Ean 8eloume na to
lusoume 8a prepei oloi na dwsoume kati -etsi den einai?- den ginetai na
dwsoun oi misoi kai oi alloi misoi na gelane..Den caxnoume na broume to
swsto, h8iko, klp.. caxnoume na broume mia lush. Na eisaste sigouros, oti
ean h piesh twn Ellhnwn pou uphretoun kanonika thn 8hteia tous pros to
kratos htan megaluterh, tote oi "ru8miseis" 8a htan pio austhres gia tous
anupotaktous... Tote isws h kubernhseis na proxwrousan pros mia kaluterh
sxediash tou Stratologikou, me skopo na apofugei thn dhmiourgia
anupotaktwn => meiwsh ths 8hteias...
Alla, dusthxws, sthn mpanania eimaste epi tou mpalwmatos.. oxi epi ths
uchlhs raptikhs:))

Apla, skefthte to kalutera otan anafereste se BMW kai Mercedes...
Ka8e xrono katatagontai peripou (ean den kanw la8os) 180.000 Ellhnes..
den exoun oloi BMW kai Mercedes.. den exoun oloi mesa kai gnwrimies, den
exoun oloi "fwnh" kai "piesh" pros ta panw... H pleiochfia apo auta ta
paidia den exoun kan thn dunatothta morfwshs, thn dunatothta na
antikrusoun tous "paradeisous" tous opoious emeis blepoume, zoume, kai
glukenomaste.. eite ton magiko kosmo ths morfwshs.

Malon loipon, auto autoi pou askoun piesh me mesa kai gnwrimies einai osoi
exoun ta $100,000 pou apaitei ena ptuxio sthn USA.. Mazi me autous,
epwfelountai kai diaforoi an8rwpoi, oi opoioi ergazontai ejw, giati mesa
den mporousan.. KAI KALA KANOUN..

alla oxi oti oloi osoi phgan strato einai busmata, matswmenoi, kai xazoi,
enw osoi, prokeimenou na spoudasoun, ginan hrwes anupotaktoi, mphkan sthn
paranomia, kai ajizoun kai sunxarhthria.. Prepei kamia fora na exoume to
8aros na leme : Etsi re paidi mou.. den mporw egw na paw strato, FOBAMAI,
den goustarw, klp klp..

oxi omws na prospa8oume na apodeijoume oti oi alloi pou pane einai malakes
kai koroida..

na sas pw kai kati allo:

Exete dokimasei pote sthn Gallia na ejapathsete to kratos??
Egw otan efuga, eixe molis allajei o tropos plhrwmhs ths EDF.. eprepe
na plhrwnoume prokatabolika gia ena trimhno me estimation basismeno sthn
katanalwsh ths prohgoumenhs xronias.... paw loipon sthn EDF kai tous lew:
".. feugw se mia ebdomada, 8a h8ela na diakocw thn paroxh reumatos, klp
klp" to estimation gia emena htan 1800 ffr !!! (sunh8ws plhrwna 350 to
mhna).. Tous dinw loipon ena cheque 500 ffr (gia na exw to kefali mou
hsuxo) kai feugw...

Meta apo duo xronia, lambanw gramma sthn Ellada apo thn BNP.. "Kurie,
xrwstate 3500 ffr.."
To canxw to 8ema kai ti eixe ginei:
Efuga egw, den ekocan to reuma, eiseprajan to tsek mou, zhthsan kai apo
thn BNP ta 1800 (dioti eixa
ejousiodothsei thn EDF sto parel8on na shkwnei ta xrhmata automata)..
bghke anrhtiko to balance peripou 1750 ffr, me xrewse h BNP 150 ffr giati
hmoun negative, me xrewnan gia duo xronia tokous, kai ka8e trimhno 85 ffr
epeidh hmoun akoma..negative!!!

Bre kale mou , bre xruse mou.. tipote apo thn BNP.. mou ta eixan prhjei
sto ..desole!! Telos pantwn, na mhn sas prhjw ki esas k. Eugenie, ta
plhrwsa (mou xrwstaei omws h EDF peripou 1350 :))))
Eixa olo to dikio me to meros mou (&^%$#%^%).. Ti na kanw omws? Logo tou
oti h douleia mou sxetizetai me thn Gallia (exw arketous pelates) kai
epeidh xreiazetai suxna-pukna na tajideuw pros ta ekei, to skefthka, to
janaskefthka.. kai ta plhrwsa san ton malaka, kai eipa kai euxaristw!

Etsi einai.. kamia fora, akoma kai ean to 8ewroume adiko, prepei na
plhrwnoume, dioti, otan bazoume thn tzifra mas kapou, prepei na thn
sebastoume... Akoma kai ean den diabasoume ta cila grammata!!

> eixame psofisi. an stin Ellada ipirxe ligotero meso kai perisoteri
> axiokratia isws simera ena megalo meros apo emas na itan simera stin
> Ellada. Otan o pateras mou pige stin stratologia tin proti fora o
> statologos tou eipe "DEN EINAI OUTE O PROTOS OUTE O TELAITEUOS. TO XEROULME
> OTI MIA MEGALI PLEIOPSIFIA MENEI STO EXOTERIKO".

Eimai sigouros oti sthn Gallia, otan pate sthn trapeza, perimenete pisw
apo thn grammh pou uparxei xaragmenh styo patwma, kai den dianohste na
"klecete"sthn oura... Me to parapanw skeptiko, otan pate Ellada, "klebete"
dioti.."OI PERISSOTEROI TO KANOUN" ?

> Blepeis files Ilia to problima gia mia megali meritha anipotaktwn den einai
> oti tha mas stiloun sta nisia (sik stin Santorin eixe mia monada
> "disiplinaire" ..) oi ston ebro (den eimaste blepeis ithopoioi, kalitexnes,
> oi otidipote allo ...). Xwris bebaia ta gnwsta kapsonia gia merikous
> "kutta re ton malaka pou nomize oti tha glitwne ton strato...To eidate
> kaneis den xefeugei...". Sta 35 oi kai parapanw nomizeis eilikrina oti 6-9
> i kai perisoteroi mines thitias (kai me exagora) tha boithsoun tin Ellada
> na xeperasei ena problima ??.

Den einai etsi o stratos kurie.. la8os plhrofories exete parei.. kai
bebaia den einai sxolh fwtomontelwn, alla kaneis den exei proswpika me
esas..

> Edw stw exwteriko pantws ilia iparxei 80% axiokratia kai 20% tenekedes
> (fragkika arguria.). Stin Ellada i analogia einai antitheti. Mporei merikoi

As prospa8hsoume loipon na thn allajoume! To na fugoume den einai lush.

xairetismous,
ilias Lantzis

>
>
>
>
> > > > >On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, eugene simos wrote: > >> Gia se olous sas.
> >> Apo tin sizitisi sxetika me ta stratologika ton anupotakton eida oti
> >> polla atoma exoun ena misos (mipos einai >> complexika ???) me
> orismenous pou gia diaforous logous des exoun >> upiretisi tin thiteia
> tous (anamesa tous eimai kai egw). den katala >> giati o tonos ton
> "posts" exei pesei toso xamila ?? (mipos giati i >> iperifani ellines
> "esso ???" exoun tin "boula" tou patrioti kai einai >> pio "patriotes"
> apo emas ??? >> >> Egw loipon eimai "monimos" apo to 89. exw "xeni"
> upikootita apo to 91, >> kai mia strwmeni koinoniki zwi. se oli tin
> diarkia ton spoudwn mou i >> ellada den mou edwse mia draxmi .Fisika
> sinantisa polles diskolies apo >> "imeterous" tou stil "kala re malaka
> nomizeis oti me to didaktoriko tha >> breis mia douleia ??", kai ola
> auta ta atoma eixan kanei tin "theitia" >> tous san kaloi patriotes
> stin Athina, ston Peiraia, kai alllou. To thema >> tou Ph.D eixe thema
> 100% me tin ellada, alla otan teleiwsa etuxe na brw >> mai douleia, enw
> gurnwnstas "YPERIFANA" stin ellada tha ekana 2 xronia >> thitias ston
> ebro (mesa then eixame stin oikogenia oute me dexia oute me >> aristera
> ), kai tha xekinaga tin zwi mou sta 31, xwris na eimai sigouros >> oti
> meta to stratiotiko tha mporousa na axiopoiiso ta xronia pou perasa >>

> me strerisis sa fititis. >> >> twra eimai 35, exw ena paidi douleia

> ktlp ktlp, nomizete oti mporw na >> stamatisw tin zow mou gia 6 mines
> kai na pao na to paixw "PATRIOTIS". >> Poios tha zisi tin oikogenia mou

Anna Karpathakis

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

Basili,

eine kai merikoi poy den pisteboun ston strato. diladi, i oikogenia gia
aftoys toys anthropoys metraei perisotero apo to "ethniko kathikon".

ak

Petros Petropoulos

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

V.Ko...@chem.rug.nl grafei:

> Petropoule stamata na kaneis genikeuseis pou den
> isxyoun kai na les ta pramata etsi opws se symferoun.

Ara elpizw va katalabaiveis poso blakwdn akougovtai auta ta opoia grafete
eseis gevikeuovtas aberta-kouberta basismevoi stis DIKIES sas proswpikes
epiloges kai sta epakolou0a tous.

> To Lantzh oute ton 3erw oute me 3erei alla an einai dynaton
> dhl. "o mesos 'patriwths-Ellhnaras' sthn Ellada" na kanei

> auto pou les.An pragmatika to pisteueis auto apatasai
> oiktra.

Nai kala twra, kati mas eipes...egw kserw 150 oikogeveies twv opoiwv oi
makavtasndes xartzilikwvovtai apo tov mpampa kai mevouv spiti mexrn ``va
brouv mia kaln kopella'' kai va parouv twv omatiwv tous oi axaireutoi...

> Egw pantws dexomai na pei kapoios "brhka douleia kai san
> de 0elw na xasw thn eukaireia, alla katalabaine oti einai la0os
> kai 0elw na bre0ei enas tropos na plrwsw to xreos pou eixa
> sthn patrida".

Giati swvei kai kala va skeftovtai oloi oi upoloipoi opws skeftesai esy ?
To ``conditioning'' sou sou upodeikvuei autov tov tropo skepsns...deksou
oti to ``conditioning'' mou mporei va mou upodeikvuei diaforetiko tropo
skepsns...

>Apo kei kai pera na
> na prospa0eis na dikaiologhseis ta adikaiologhta oti o mesos
> Ellhnaras einai xaramofahs enw egw den eimai kai desme egw
> poso petyxhmenos eimai enw esy trws ta lefta tou mpampa sou.
> E! ti na pw !!!!

Huh ? Aln0eia, ti les ?

> Logikh tou paralogou.
> Mallon proion tycewn alla egw nomizw oti eisai aplws biased
> me ka0eti ellhniko.
>
> Basilhs

La0os, to oti aduvateis va deis oti kapios allos exei tnv duvatotnta va
kavei alles epiloges snmaivei oti dev eisai sigouros gia tis DIKIES sou
epiloges...opote mallov esy ais0avesai avasfalns kai prospa0eis va
epibebaiw0eis briskovtas parea me merikous akomn koprites stnv aggeln...

Petros

Vassilis Koutsos

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

Gracei o Petros Petropoulos

>
> > Petropoule stamata na kaneis genikeuseis pou den
> > isxyoun kai na les ta pramata etsi opws se symferoun.
>
> Ara elpizw va katalabaiveis poso blakwdn akougovtai auta ta opoia grafete
> eseis gevikeuovtas aberta-kouberta basismevoi stis DIKIES sas proswpikes
> epiloges kai sta epakolou0a tous.

Egw den ekana genikeuseis.
De lew oti o ka0e enas pou den exei kanei strato einai etsi
ki etsi ki etsi. Epilogh einai (kai aplws de me brikei symfwno).
That's all!

>
> > To Lantzh oute ton 3erw oute me 3erei alla an einai dynaton
> > dhl. "o mesos 'patriwths-Ellhnaras' sthn Ellada" na kanei
> > auto pou les.An pragmatika to pisteueis auto apatasai
> > oiktra.
>
> Nai kala twra, kati mas eipes...egw kserw 150 oikogeveies twv opoiwv oi
> makavtasndes xartzilikwvovtai apo tov mpampa kai mevouv spiti mexrn ``va
> brouv mia kaln kopella'' kai va parouv twv omatiwv tous oi axaireutoi...

E, kai;; ti apodeiknuei auto;;
Oti o mesos patriwths ellhnaras einai xaramofahs.
Pou 3erw egw tis gnwrimies sou. Einai typiko deigma;
Kai auto ti sxesh exei me to strato;; Auto dikaiologei
thn epilogh twn anypotaktwn;;

>
> > Egw pantws dexomai na pei kapoios "brhka douleia kai san
> > de 0elw na xasw thn eukaireia, alla katalabaine oti einai la0os
> > kai 0elw na bre0ei enas tropos na plrwsw to xreos pou eixa
> > sthn patrida".
>
> Giati swvei kai kala va skeftovtai oloi oi upoloipoi opws skeftesai esy ?
> To ``conditioning'' sou sou upodeikvuei autov tov tropo skepsns...deksou
> oti to ``conditioning'' mou mporei va mou upodeikvuei diaforetiko tropo
> skepsns...

Qime den eipa oti autos einai o monos tropos skechs.
Eipa oti egw auto 0a to dexomouna (me ta dika mou conditioning).
Opwsdhpote alloi 0a eixan alla conditioning,
ta opoia einai synh0ws "kai thn pita oloklhrh
kai ton skylo xortato". KAi giati dhl. prepei swnei kai
kal na symfwnw me to conditioning. Safws, an 3ekinhsw ki
egw me to conditioning, prwta kariera kai meta ola t'alla (px)
Safws alla symperasmata 0a bgalw. E! egw diafwnw
me to conditioning.
En katakleidi, to olo 0ema einai 0ema arxwn.

>
> >Apo kei kai pera na
> > na prospa0eis na dikaiologhseis ta adikaiologhta oti o mesos
> > Ellhnaras einai xaramofahs enw egw den eimai kai desme egw
> > poso petyxhmenos eimai enw esy trws ta lefta tou mpampa sou.
> > E! ti na pw !!!!
>
> Huh ? Aln0eia, ti les ?
>
> > Logikh tou paralogou.
> > Mallon proion tycewn alla egw nomizw oti eisai aplws biased
> > me ka0eti ellhniko.
> >
> > Basilhs
>
> La0os, to oti aduvateis va deis oti kapios allos exei tnv duvatotnta va
> kavei alles epiloges snmaivei oti dev eisai sigouros gia tis DIKIES sou
> epiloges...opote mallov esy ais0avesai avasfalns kai prospa0eis va
> epibebaiw0eis briskovtas parea me merikous akomn koprites stnv aggeln...
>

Den anhkw se kamia agelh.
Oi apoceis mou einai proswpikes.
Den exw kamia ere3h na epibebaiw0w apo allous.
Den arnoume th dynatothta tou allou na kanei alles epiloges.
Sthliteuw mia epixeirhmatologia pou an thn kaloe3etaseis
cyxraima kai logika
de stekei.
(blepe prwto mail mou sto thread).

> Petros

Basilhs

Petros Petropoulos

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

>Apla, skefthte to kalutera otan anafereste se BMW kai Mercedes...
>Ka8e xrono katatagontai peripou (ean den kanw la8os) 180.000 Ellhnes..
>den exoun oloi BMW kai Mercedes.. den exoun oloi mesa kai gnwrimies, den
>exoun oloi "fwnh" kai "piesh" pros ta panw... H pleiochfia apo auta ta
>paidia den exoun kan thn dunatothta morfwshs, thn dunatothta na
>antikrusoun tous "paradeisous" tous opoious emeis blepoume, zoume, kai
>glukenomaste.. eite ton magiko kosmo ths morfwshs.

Gia koita pou mas bgnke kai Rompev twv Daswv o Lavtzns...ti va givei re
Lavtzn, kapios prepei va patn0ei gia va mporeis esy va apolambaveis ta
lefta tou mpampa sou kai tou pe0erou sou edw sto Amerika...kapitalistiko
sustnma kai eleu0ern agora...mn ta pairveis sto kravio...dev eisai o movos
pou koproskuliazei stnv Amerikn trwgovtas fragka tou ``gerou''...

Mn vomizeis omws apo pavw oti kseplyves tnv vtropn sou me to va pas strato...
Mn vomizeis oti ta lefta pou esy trws kai pou apoktn0nkav me mox0o tritwv
dev se exouv snmadepsei oln sou tn zwn...

O stratos Lavtzn dev eivai ``pluvtnrio'' suveidnsns kai xwvepse to priv
pa0eis kava kolpo apo tn fagoura (Olos arxidia mas eipes eisai opote
pisteuw 0a se basavizei n fagoura).

Petros

Thanos Voudouris

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

O Stratos filoi mou den einai "eklogh" mas oute kai diaskedasi. Opoioi
to blepoun me ayto to mati einai lan8asmenoi.

O Stratos einai KAQHKON kai YPOXREWSI O L W N. Teleia kai payla.

Twra an kapoios parei anabolh, sxoleio, oikogeneia, paidia kai.. 30+ xronwn,
pios ftaiei? To kratos? Oxi fysika.
Den h3ere tis ypoxrewseis tou prin na ftasei sto shmeio anypota3ias?

Aman pia! Exw bare9ei na akouw ton ka9ena pws na mporesei na thn skapoularei.

To kratos ftaiei pou exei afysei to 9ema ayto na koilystei sth lasph
me to na exei diaforetikous nomous/para9yra gia plousious-ftwxous,
grammatismenous kai mh, 30rhdes, 40arhdes klp. Me to na trabaei to 9ema
edw kai dyo xronia twra legontas oti "thn erxomenh ebdomada katatei9etai
to nomosxedio" exei katamthsei ahdeia. Arage 9a ginei pote??

An h Ellada 9elei na krathsei to stratiwtiko ypoxrewtiko gia olous,
tote prepi kai na efarmozetai, kai o monos tropos einai OLOI ane3airetws
na phgainoun sto starto gi akapoio xroniko diasthma amesws meta to
lykeio.

Kai mhn barate ton ageloioforo. Pragmatikothtes eipa!
___________________________________________________________________
__|__~~~~~~~~~~~ Thanos (apo to spiti tou Capital Porky '95)
| ~~~~~~~~~~~ tha...@vlsi.gsfc.nasa.gov
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HELLAS_W3 http://www.Greece.org/hellas

Emmanuel Skoufos

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Thanos Voudouris wrote:

> An h Ellada 9elei na krathsei to stratiwtiko ypoxrewtiko gia olous,
> tote prepi kai na efarmozetai, kai o monos tropos einai OLOI ane3airetws
> na phgainoun sto starto gi akapoio xroniko diasthma amesws meta to
> lykeio.

Ena apo ta la0h sto epeixhrhma sou einai oti arxizeis me lan0asmenh bash.
Sthn Ellada h 0hteia den einai upoxrwtikh gia olous alla mono gia tous
ligoterous apo tous misous polites...
(To opoio fusika einai giati h 0esh twn allwn miswn sta matia ths
"koinwnias" einai 3upolhtes sthn kouzina kai me ena brefos sto sth0os...)

Proswpika pisteuw oti h 0hteia einai proswpikh epilogh me bash tis arxes
tou ka0enos, tipote perissotero tipote ligotero. Kai epeidh uparxei ena
megalo pososto politwn pou einai dusaresthmenoi me thn katastash einai
*upoxrewsh* twnnomo0etwn na thn e3etasoun...
(btw h dikh mou epilogh htan na strateutw, gia tous dikous mou logous,
alla different strokes for different folks...)

Manwlhs

Stavros Pissadakis

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:10:34 -0700
> Reply-to: Mary Kalamaki <sf...@INREACH.COM>
> From: Mary Kalamaki <sf...@INREACH.COM>
> Organization: Stanislaus Food Products
> Subject: Re: Stratoligika
> To: HEL...@AMERICAN.EDU

re paidia den xwraei genikotites to thema tis strateusis....
kathe enas einai diaforetiki periptwsi kai den entasetai se ena
eniaio plaisio... alloi afinoun phd sthn mesi alloi oxi alloi den
exoun lefta alloi exoun oikogenia....
oi perissoteroi exoun "pragmatika" problimata....... kai otan lew oi
perissoteroi ennow aytous pou den tous taizei o mpampas kai den exoun
bouleutes kai ypourgous gia na kanoun thitia tou kwlou.... aytoi
antimetwpizoun problima... ta kwlopaida pou thn kanoun me thn profasi
tou phd gia eyrwpi kai ameriki epidi einai eyriprwktoi einai allo
thema.... den tous klanoume kan!!!!!!

aytoi omws oi opioi ftinoun aima sthn ksenitia gia na paroun ena
xarti pou h ellada den tous prosferei h den tehlei na tous prosferei
einai allo thema.... kai autoi einai oloi manges kai den lene oxi na
pane na kanoun to starto tous... ayto pou zitane einai mia eunoiki
rytmisi se periptwsi pou einai megaloi arketa h exoun 1-2
koutsoubela..... re gamwto den einai dikaio na kanei o dekaoktaris
thitia sto polemiko mousio epidi exei donti o mpampas kai o allos me
2 koutsoubela kai 35 xronwn na trexei sto ebro!!!!! einai thlibero
kai anikousto... kai na exei faei thn kwloksenitia sthn mapa tosa
xronia....kserw polles teties periptwseis kai einai ntropi... oxi
tipota allo....

S

Pissadakis Stavros
Optoelectronics Research Centre
University of Southampton
SO17 1BJ
UK
Tel. +44 1703 593954
Fax. +44 1703 593149
email. s...@orc.soton.ac.uk

Petros Petropoulos

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

Thanos Voudouris <tha...@VDRAGON.GSFC.NASA.GOV> grafei:

>O Stratos einai KAQHKON kai YPOXREWSI O L W N. Teleia kai payla.

Av ntav etsi tote n 0nteia 0a ntav upoxrewtikn gia olous kai oles
sta 18...opws eivai kai stnv Kupro...oute mou, oute ma, oute xreiazetai
va eisai patriwtns...ftaveis 18, vtyvesai, kolobaras gia 18-20 mnves,
kai meta eisai eleu0ero pouli (kai to paizeis kai patriwtns ama
lax'va'oum).

Efosov omws o IDIOS O NOMOS tou kratous afnvei tosa para0urakia tote eivai
to IDIO to kratos pou mou leei ``exeis eklogn''...kai pios eimai egw va
parakousw tis prostages tou kratous ?????

Petros

Lida Anestidou

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

On 7 Apr 97 at 15:54, Thanos Voudouris wrote:

> O Stratos filoi mou den einai "eklogh" mas oute kai diaskedasi. Opoioi
> to blepoun me ayto to mati einai lan8asmenoi.

pros to paron den einai eklogh oute epilogh, einai upoxrewsh, opws
upoxrewsh einai kai h pshfos....xa.

>
> O Stratos einai KAQHKON kai YPOXREWSI O L W N. Teleia kai payla.

OLWN?
Poioi einai autoi ,oi oloi?
ai gunaikai?
oi poluteknoi, monoterknoi, diteknoi?
oi pisteyontes se alles 8rhskeies, 8ewries, ahdies?
KA8HKON?
apenanti se poious?
tous misous ellhnes polites?
tous twn meswn kai twn etsi pou thn bgazoun eis pentagwnon,
polemikon mouseion, tsoliades kai loipes xrhsimes uphresies?

>
> Twra an kapoios parei anabolh, sxoleio, oikogeneia, paidia kai.. 30+ xronwn,
> pios ftaiei? To kratos? Oxi fysika.

H maria h pentagiwtissa ftaiei pou sxediase tous nomous kai tis
anagkes tou ellhnikou kratous toso sofa pou uparxoun ekato xiliades
trupares na 3efugei kaneis apo tis "dagkanes" tou stratou.

> Den h3ere tis ypoxrewseis tou prin na ftasei sto shmeio anypota3ias?

Kai ta dikaiwmata tou?
Auta giati den anaferontai pote?

>
> Aman pia! Exw bare9ei na akouw ton ka9ena pws na mporesei na thn skapoularei.

Gouai 8ano?
Afou einai to e8niko spor.

> An h Ellada 9elei na krathsei to stratiwtiko ypoxrewtiko gia olous,
> tote prepi kai na efarmozetai, kai o monos tropos einai OLOI ane3airetws
> na phgainoun sto starto gi akapoio xroniko diasthma amesws meta to
> lykeio.

auto einai swsto.

to arxidiabolaki >:->

Efthimios Tartaras

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

>Ena apo ta la0h sto epeixhrhma sou einai oti arxizeis me lan0asmenh bash.
>Sthn Ellada h 0hteia den einai upoxrwtikh gia olous alla mono gia tous
>ligoterous apo tous misous polites...
>(To opoio fusika einai giati h 0esh twn allwn miswn sta matia ths
>"koinwnias" einai 3upolhtes sthn kouzina kai me ena brefos sto sth0os...)

Pou allou Manwlh, den isxuei auto; 1-2 xwres ston kosmo isws. Fusika
kapote tha ginei ki auto alla pros to paron den phgainoun oloi oi
antres, de nomizw oti oi gunaikes einai to provlhma. Allwste, gia
kathara logous fusikhs dunamhs einai pio logiko oi antres na asxolountai
me ton "polemo" (kserw auto akougetai asxhmo, alla den evriska sta grhgora
kaluterh leksh, telos pantwn katalavaineis ti ennow). To oti h koinwnia
den "vlepei" tis gunaikes me ena oplo ston wmo de shmainei aparaithta
oti tis vlepei kai "3upolhtes sthn kouzina kai me ena brefos sto sth0os".
Ligo travhgmeno de nomizeis; Tha pw kai kati teleutaio (to opoio eimai
sigouros oti tha prokalesei antidraseis ws "sexistiko", alla den peirazei).
H Ellada exei sovaro dhmografiko provlhma kai h strateush gunaikwn nomizw
tha epeteine akoma perissotero auto to provlhma gia profaneis logous.

Themhs

Efthimios Tartaras

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

>> O Stratos einai KAQHKON kai YPOXREWSI O L W N. Teleia kai payla.
>
>OLWN?
>Poioi einai autoi ,oi oloi?
>ai gunaikai?
>oi poluteknoi, monoterknoi, diteknoi?
>oi pisteyontes se alles 8rhskeies, 8ewries, ahdies?
>KA8HKON?
>apenanti se poious?
>tous misous ellhnes polites?
>tous twn meswn kai twn etsi pou thn bgazoun eis pentagwnon,

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>polemikon mouseion, tsoliades kai loipes xrhsimes uphresies?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Lhda, klassiko lanthasmeno epixeirhma pou apotelei kai th gagkraina
ths ellhnikhs koinwnias. "Afou den to kanoun oi alloi, giati na to kanw
egw;" Ma o kathenas mas etsi ginetai telika to idio me tous "allous".
Kai exoume enan faulo kuklo. De nomizw na einai epixeirhma otan zhtas
apo kapoion viomhxano na mh molunei thn atmosfaira, na sou leei "e, mwre
kai alloi vgazoun ta filtra to vradu, tha ta vgalw ki egw".

Auto gia to teleutaio epixeirhma sou. Twra se oloklhro to thema
den mpainw giati einai polu megalo kai den exw polu xrono. Ontws
ta upoloipa shmeia shkwnoun pollh suzhthsh.

Themhs

Yannis Papakonstantinou

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

Plithos malakies akougontai, kai me to sympatheio, enthen kai enthen.

Mia prospatheia na ksemperdepsoume ta mpoutia mas kai na pw ki egw tin
malakia mou:
alfon) Apo praktikis apopsews to ethese swsta o Nikos o Anousis. An mporeis
me ton nomo, opoiondipote nomo, na parateineis tin anavoli n' na glytwseis
to strato den tithetai nomiko thema. Einai sxedon taytologia to olo
statement kai den sikwnei antirisi. Episis apo praktikis apopsews, den exw
dei KANENAN, patriwti n' mi, na min vazei mesa, na min kanei aitiseis gia
diaprepeis, klp klp, efoson tou pernaei. Oi monoi pou fwnazoun einai eite
aytoi pou pigane (opote sou lene afou to fagame pou to fagame giati na min
to fane oloi? kai dikaiologimenoi antidrasi) eite aytoi pou einai sigouroi
oti den tous pernaei kamia eyergetiki rythmisi kai episis anarwtiountai
giati na einai oi malakes tis ypothesis. H en logw symperifora kanei ta
parakatw kefalaia tis ithiks analysis tis ypothesis filosofikes mpourdes
mikroteris emveleias apo mia kouventa tou Koutalou me ton Dandoulaki, ton
Anipsio, kai ton Souli, alla kathoti kafeneio den stamataw.

viton) Kefalaio "Ithika peri Stratologias".
Kyrie Anipsie mou, leei o anypotaktos, eimai epistimwn diaprepis kai ara
prosferw stin Ellada me to oti psarwnw allous epistimones (ligotero
diaprepeis), psarwnw kati kaimena paidakia pou tous kanw mathima, kai kati
akoma pio kaimena pou me exoun advisor. Ara prepei na parw paratasi giati
doksazw tin xwra kai proagw tin epistimi.
Proswpiki apopsi kata tou epixeirimatos: Ki o Vardinogiannis mporei na
prosferei dinontas 10-20 dis. Nomizw to vasiko zitoumeno einai i isonomia ki
oxi i prosfora stin patrida.
Proswpiki apopsi yper tou epixeirimatos: O Tzigger ta'xei logw mpampa kai
den ginetai na ton timisoume gi'ayto. O "diaprepis" estrwse ton diko tou
kwlo omws.

H pragmatiki mou apopsi pantws einai oti polys kosmos me kales prooptikes
(oi opoies apoktountai me poly douleia) tha xantakwthei an paei strato
afinontas to Pi Tsi Nti n' ta methepomena. Na eiste sigouroi osoi pate gia
kapoia kali thesi se academia n' research oti den tha sas thymatai polys
kosmos se dyo-tria xronia. (Vasika oute eseis tha thymaste ti kanate.
Rwtiste ton tsatsonayti Mpetoniera pou pige ston Starto me laptop kai nomize
oti tha egrafe paper stin loufa.) Apo ekei kai pera to "diaprepeis" apokta
to noima oti to kratos dinei mia eykairia se kapoious polites tou pou tin
exoun sovari anagki ki etsi to vlepw egw. Opws dinei apallagi stous I5, opws
dinei enallaktiki stous I4 klp klp. Kai kala kanei giati mpainei kai thema
"image" gia to kratos. Idi gelaei polys kosmos mazi mas (na dineis interview
se Amerikanous-Gallous-Portogalous kai na sou lene gelwntas "kai me ton
strato ti tha kaneis") les kai eimaste apo kammia mpanania.

gamon) Kefalaio "Poia Isonomia?".
Poia isonomia kyrie Anipsie mou ? Gnwrizete ti vysma peftei ? Gnwrizete oti
o allos pou ta exei (o Lantzis as poume :) tin exei kanei omorfa me n' xwris
strato enw egw tha ton roufiksw ton poulo ama afisw tin douleia mou n' to Pi
Tsi Nti mou twra ? ki o Tzigger kanei tin thiteia tou sto ekklisaki sto
Lykavito.

Edw i ithiki sikwnei ta xeria psila kathoti tithetai to pagkosmio kai aiwnio
erwtima "exei noima i ithiki symperifora se enan kosmo anithiko, se enan
kosmo me haves and have-nots?" Enas typos prin 2400 xronia eipe oti nai,
exei noima (kai to ipie, ki egine thrylos kai Superstar pou elege i Elpida
stin Eurovision.) Oi mazes synithws lene "prits" kai metakinountai sto
Kefalaio Alfon (vide supra). O Anipsios sikwnei ta xeria kai ta podia psila
giati to erwtima einai poly maliaro kai tha pathw tipota an ekei pou
asxoliomouna me ton Daimona ksafnika piasw ton Swkrati (oxi ton Kokali.)

delton) Kefalaio "Oi kk Ktenas kai Votsis parapliroforoun"
Kyrie Anipsie mou, den exw vgalei oute draxmi synalagma, den zitaw thesi apo
to elliniko dimosio, kai par'ol'ayta den me afinoun na patisw stin xwra. Ki
epipleon o Votsis den kserei oti apaks kai genithikes Ellinas eisai ypologos
twn synepeiwn tou nomou eite exeis Amerikaniki eite exeis Areiani
ypikootita. (Parte Votsi:)

>Re file afou epele3es na alla3eis i8ageneia ti se noiazei gia to stratiwtiko;

Ki exeis kai ton Ktena na leei oti ypegrapses symvolaio ypoxrewsewn me tin
patrida. Na mou kserathei o poutsos an ypograpsa tipota, kyrie Anipsie mou.
Edw exoume maliaro thema: To Elliniko kratos en dynamaei krataei mi
synainetika omirous tous polites tou. An diladi den exeis ofeiles pros to
kratos, kai den noiwtheis re paidi mou ellinas alla eisai enas Petropoulos,
giati na min mporeis na dilwseis Gallos ? Kala, kserw oti zoume stin perioxi
tou kosmou pou den epistrefetai tipota meta tin apoxwrisi ek tou tameiou
alla ...
Alli erwtisi: efoson zeis ektos xwras kai den exeis ofeiles giati na min sou
afinoun to dikaiwma na patas stin xwra les kai eisai egklimatias ?

Proswpiki apopsi: Kaltera na pigainame oloi sta 18 kai na teleiwne ekei i
fasi. Apo tin stigmi omws pou se afinoun na arxizeis allou tin zwi sou einai
anithiko na sou vazoun meta ekviasmous "n' erxesai strato twra n' den pernas
ta synora".

---Anipsios

Efthimios Tartaras

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

>Me diabases la9os 8emh, dioti to point mou htan akribws eirwnia
>apenanti sta grafta tou 8anou pou presbeuei oti o stratos einai
>upoxrewsh olwn.

<snip> ta upoloipa

O.k. Lhda. Basika sumfwnw se ola (tha mou peis twra otan de sumfwneis
ta vazeis ta apospasmata, otan sumfwneis ta koveis, e ti na kanoume
etsi einai :-) )

Alhtheia ti ennoeis me auto:
>fusika kai den einai, kai den uposthrizw kati tetoio.
>Oso omws exeis ena kratiko mhxanismo yatabaza, pou kanei
>paraxwrhseis kai tsalimia analoga me to ti mesa kai ti lefta exeis
>kai poiios dhlwneis oti eisai (blepe 4E),
^^^^^^^^^^^

Den to'piasa auto. Exw xasei epeisodia mou fainetai.

Themhs

Lida Anestidou

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

On 7 Apr 97 at 17:10, Efthimios Tartaras wrote:

>
> Lhda, klassiko lanthasmeno epixeirhma pou apotelei kai th gagkraina
> ths ellhnikhs koinwnias. "Afou den to kanoun oi alloi, giati na to kanw
> egw;"

Me diabases la9os 8emh, dioti to point mou htan akribws eirwnia

apenanti sta grafta tou 8anou pou presbeuei oti o stratos einai
upoxrewsh olwn.

Otan oi misoi nomima loufaroun kai oi alloi misoi "paranoma"
loufaroun, einai geloio na miloume gia upoxrewsh OLWN.
Dioti oi oloi ginontai to 50% kai fusika 8a baruggomhsoun, kai
fusika 8a poun auto pou les esu, dioti einai pana8rwpino fainomeno
na mh 8es na se pianoun koroido kai malaka, kai na 8es na
prosfereis osa kai o allos. An o allos me tis eulogies tou mpampa
tou, tou 8eiou, tou mpatzanakh, tou bouleuth, tou trapezikou, tou
politeuth kai outw ka8'e3hs, prosferei mia trypa sto nero, PWS 8a
er8ei to kratos kai me ka8aro koutelo 8a prosta3ei: prosferete
dipla eseis oi upoloipoi?

De nomizw na einai epixeirhma otan zhtas
> apo kapoion viomhxano na mh molunei thn atmosfaira, na sou leei "e, mwre
> kai alloi vgazoun ta filtra to vradu, tha ta vgalw ki egw".

fusika kai den einai, kai den uposthrizw kati tetoio.

Oso omws exeis ena kratiko mhxanismo yatabaza, pou kanei
paraxwrhseis kai tsalimia analoga me to ti mesa kai ti lefta exeis

kai poiios dhlwneis oti eisai (blepe 4E), tote den uparxei kaneis
na upoxrewsei to biomhxano na mhn molunei thn atmosfaira.

Lhda

Nick Triandos

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

> H Lhda grafei...

>
>pros to paron den einai eklogh oute epilogh, einai upoxrewsh, opws
>upoxrewsh einai kai h pshfos....xa.

De mou les re Lhda exei pei kaneis apo mas oti DEN qelei na kanei stratiwtiko?
To 3eroume oti einai ypoxrewsh, to 3eroume oti kapou kapote prepei na pame
na yphrethsoume, opws 3eroume epishs oti merikoi apo mas eixame epilogh kai
kalws h' kakws epile3ame thn anypota3ia gia diaforetikous logous o kaQenas.

Opws o kaQe agrammatos podosfairisths exei to kaQe bisma kai einai mia mesa
kai 364 e3w, etsi kai egw qelw special consideration. Opws o kaQevas
pou efyge ap' thv Ellada taxa gia na 'rQei sxoleio kai katavthse na douleyei
gkarsoni kai na pairvei prasinh karta kai na e3airhtai temporarely apo tis
stratiwtikes tou ypoxrewseis etsi kai egw Qelw special consideration. Opws
tous afhnoun aytous na episkeftoun thv xwra etsi exw kai EGW ayth thv apaithsh
kaQws kai egw prosferw ergo kai prosferw poly perissotero ap' oti o
podosfairisths h' to gkarsoni.

H Mama Ellada omws me nomo pou perase to 1994 o opoios elege oti osoi
anypotaktoi einai katoxoi prasinhs kartas mexrh kai tis 31/12/94 e3airountai
proswrinos ths strateyshs kai exoun thv dynatothta episkepshs sth xwra mexrh
kai gia 3 mhnes, anoi3e tis portes se pollous xwris na avagvwrizei gia poion
logo o kaQenas briskotav ekei pou briskotav kai TI ekane ekei pou briskotav.

Gia pes mou loipon poia h diafora aytwv me emena? Katoikoi e3wterikoi aytoi
katoikos e3wterikou kai egw. Gennhmenoi sthv Ellada aytoi, gennhmenos sthv
Ellada kai egw. Forous plhrwvoun aytoi, forous plhrwvw kai egw.
Gvwrizw atoma pou hrQav sthv Amerikh gia na
spoudasoun, kai dev teleiwsav pote. Aytoi pavtreythkan phrav karta kai
twra tous dinete h dynatothta na phgainoun sthv Ellada sav kyrioi. Enw egw
o malakas pou kaQhsa sta Qraveia kai dev exw karta exw thv metaxeirhsh
egklhmatia. Kai av kapoios exei thv dynatothta na gyrisei sthv Ellada kai na
exei kapoia prooptikh aytos eimai egw kai oxi to gkarsoni.

Sas to 3avalew gia na to katalabete merikoi edw mesa. Kaneis ap' tous
avypotaktous pou 3erw dev exei ekdhlwsei thv epiQymia na MHN paei favtaros.
Emena oi meres mou sthv Amerikh meta apo parousia 12 xronwn einai metrhnes
pleon kaQws dev eixa kai oute exw proQesh na meinw edw. Exw Bgei anypotaktos
ap' to 1993. Eite perasoun kapoion nomo eite oxi dev mou kaigete pleon
karfi. Pote dev eixa thv apaithsh na glitwsw to stratiwtiko kaQws pisteyw
oti oloi osoi phgav oute malakes eisav oute eimai egw pio e3ypnos ap' aytous.
Alla otav Blepw thv idia mou thv xwra na exei double standard oxi mono pros
emena alla kai pros aytous pou phgav favtaroi, kai pros aytous pou efygan
taxa gia spoudes kai pote dve teleiwsav tote giati na mhn fwva3w? Bebaiws
kai Qa fwva3w opws fwvazei o Lantzhs.

Oi pragmatikoi kopanatzhdes dev einai aytoi pou douleyoun sta Panephsthmia,
pou didaskoun, pou kanoun ereynes, dev einai typoi sav kai mena pou kaQontai
sa malakes sto terminal me anoixth grammh sto Dhmokrito, sthv EMY kai sto
Panaphsthmio ths AQhnas kaQe ebdomada gia na tous ftiaxvoun ta mhxavhmata.
Oi pragmatikoi kopanatzhdes einai aytoi pou efygan ap' thv Ellada taxa gia
na spoudasoun, ta parathsav, kai twra profasizomenoi to nomo tou 1994
erxontai sthv Ellada sav kyrioi gia diakopes. Aytoi einai pou exoun biasei
tou nomo parafysh kai katafysh. Aytoi oi anypotaktoi loipon einai aytoi
pou dev prokeite va gyrisoun POTE sthv Ellada. Na kanoun ti? Allwste oi
bartenders sthv Amerikh bgazoun poly perissotera ap' oti sthv Ellada.

>
> Akribws. ayto lew!!!!

>
> >> O Stratos einai KAQHKON kai YPOXREWSI O L W N. Teleia kai payla.
> >
> >OLWN?
> >Poioi einai autoi ,oi oloi?
> >ai gunaikai?
>

> Last I checked, kalws 'h kakws, ai gynaikai den perilambanontai sta
> stratologika... isothta meta mou les ;-)
> ta eykolws enoumena paraleipontai Lhda. Mhlame gia andres kai stratiwtikes
> ypoxrewseis, symfwna me ton shmerino nomo.

>
> >oi poluteknoi, monoterknoi, diteknoi?
> >oi pisteyontes se alles 8rhskeies, 8ewries, ahdies?
> >KA8HKON?
> >apenanti se poious?
> >tous misous ellhnes polites?
>

> eipa O L W N sta plaisia tou shmerinou nomou.
> Otan eisai 18-20, den nomizw na eisai polyteknos! Otan pareis 3 anavoles,
> lypotakthseis, pas 30+ kai meta gineis polyteknos pios einai o ypey9ynos?
> Opws strwseis 9a plagiaseis.

>
> >tous twn meswn kai twn etsi pou thn bgazoun eis pentagwnon,

> >polemikon mouseion, tsoliades kai loipes xrhsimes uphresies?
>

> Ayto den einai to 9ema. To 9ema einai throume ton nomo nai 'h oxi.

>
> >> Twra an kapoios parei anabolh, sxoleio, oikogeneia, paidia kai.. 30+
xronwn,
> >> pios ftaiei? To kratos? Oxi fysika.
> >
> >H maria h pentagiwtissa ftaiei pou sxediase tous nomous kai tis
> >anagkes tou ellhnikou kratous toso sofa pou uparxoun ekato xiliades
> >trupares na 3efugei kaneis apo tis "dagkanes" tou stratou.
>

> O nomos einai nomos. Etsi 3erw egw.
> An esy h opoiodhpote allos skeftosaste diaforetika, kakws!
> O stratos DEN me "dagwse" pou phga. Sxoleio teleiwsa, oikogeneia/paidia
> exw kai do3a tw Qew!

>
> >> Den h3ere tis ypoxrewseis tou prin na ftasei sto shmeio anypota3ias?
> >
> >Kai ta dikaiwmata tou?
> >Auta giati den anaferontai pote?
>

> !! Den to katalabainw ayto!

>
> >> Aman pia! Exw bare9ei na akouw ton ka9ena pws na mporesei na thn
> skapoularei.
> >
> >Gouai 8ano?
> >Afou einai to e8niko spor.
>

> kakws. poly kakws to nohma pou exoume dwsei.

>
> >> An h Ellada 9elei na krathsei to stratiwtiko ypoxrewtiko gia olous,
> >> tote prepi kai na efarmozetai, kai o monos tropos einai OLOI ane3airetws
> >> na phgainoun sto starto gi akapoio xroniko diasthma amesws meta to
> >> lykeio.
> >
> >auto einai swsto.
> >
> >to arxidiabolaki >:->
>

> Thanos

> ___________________________________________________________________
> __|__~~~~~~~~~~~ Thanos (apo to spiti tou Capital Porky '95)
> | ~~~~~~~~~~~ tha...@vlsi.gsfc.nasa.gov
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HELLAS_Web http://www.Greece.org/hellas
>

Vassilis Kostovassilis

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

Anhpsie,
ayto pou ginetai einai oti o ka8enas edw mesa prospa8ei na peisei tous
allous oti eixe dikio stis epiloges pou exei kanei sth zwh tou. Me
elaxistes eksaireseis.
Pantws exei xy8ei to ygro apo to malakometro shmera. O counter edw mou
deixnei 180 mails shmera ws twra apo hellas. Epiase h anoiksh.
Bebaia, to all-time classic htan to fobero "o stratos se kanei
an8rwpo" .h. amerikanisti: "Army: be all you can be".
O de Petropoulos exei piasei megalh apodosh shmera, gyrw sta 20-30 mails.
Em pws na parei bachelor etsi? O de Lantzhs erikse to dolwma, alla
piasthke kai o idios. Konteyei na mas pei thn istoria ths zwhs tou.
O Anousis omws ekane thn koryfaia protash gia ekplhrwsh stratiwtikhs
8hteias me allhlografia. Epitelous kai mia sobarh protash s'ayth th
lista.

Vassilis

Thanos Voudouris

unread,

Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

H Lhda grafei...

>On 7 Apr 97 at 15:54, Thanos Voudouris wrote:
>
>> O Stratos filoi mou den einai "eklogh" mas oute kai diaskedasi. Opoioi
>> to blepoun me ayto to mati einai lan8asmenoi.
>

>pros to paron den einai eklogh oute epilogh, einai upoxrewsh, opws
>upoxrewsh einai kai h pshfos....xa.

Akribws. ayto lew!!!!

Thanos Voudouris

unread,

Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

H Lhda grafei...

>On 7 Apr 97 at 17:10, Efthimios Tartaras wrote:

>
>> Lhda, klassiko lanthasmeno epixeirhma pou apotelei kai th gagkraina
>> ths ellhnikhs koinwnias. "Afou den to kanoun oi alloi, giati na to kanw
>> egw;"
>
>Me diabases la9os 8emh, dioti to point mou htan akribws eirwnia
>apenanti sta grafta tou 8anou pou presbeuei oti o stratos einai
>upoxrewsh olwn.

Ohhh exoume kai "eirwneies"?!?!
Oxi mono ayto, alla kai lan9asmeno symperasma apo to ti egrapsa
nwrhtera!

O Thanos Lhda presbevei oti leei o nomos. Ayto eipa!

Alla fainetai akomh esy kai poloi den to exete katalabei kai den
blepete thn pragmatikothta. H Elladitsa mas apo kalwshnh kanei straba
matia kai den efarmozei ton nomo opws prepei. Etsi exei ginei ayto
to megalo mess. Ti na kanw tous "neous nomous" kai nomosxedia an kai
ayta me thn parodo tou xronou 9a ta grafoume sta skoupidia?

Esy alwste eisai kai "e3w" apo ton xoro opote dikaiologhmenh.
Den to paw sto andres/gynaikes twra. Aplws symfwna me ton nomo
esy kai na 9es den 9a gineis pote lipotakths/ria. ;)

Ilias Lantzis

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

Sunxarhthria bre Thano, dioti kataferes na peis se mia paragrafo osa
prospa8w na pw se 40 munhmata :)))

Ilias Lantzis

On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Thanos Voudouris wrote:

> O Stratos filoi mou den einai "eklogh" mas oute kai diaskedasi. Opoioi
> to blepoun me ayto to mati einai lan8asmenoi.
>

> O Stratos einai KAQHKON kai YPOXREWSI O L W N. Teleia kai payla.
>

> Twra an kapoios parei anabolh, sxoleio, oikogeneia, paidia kai.. 30+ xronwn,
> pios ftaiei? To kratos? Oxi fysika.

> Den h3ere tis ypoxrewseis tou prin na ftasei sto shmeio anypota3ias?
>

> Aman pia! Exw bare9ei na akouw ton ka9ena pws na mporesei na thn skapoularei.
>

> To kratos ftaiei pou exei afysei to 9ema ayto na koilystei sth lasph
> me to na exei diaforetikous nomous/para9yra gia plousious-ftwxous,
> grammatismenous kai mh, 30rhdes, 40arhdes klp. Me to na trabaei to 9ema
> edw kai dyo xronia twra legontas oti "thn erxomenh ebdomada katatei9etai
> to nomosxedio" exei katamthsei ahdeia. Arage 9a ginei pote??
>

> An h Ellada 9elei na krathsei to stratiwtiko ypoxrewtiko gia olous,
> tote prepi kai na efarmozetai, kai o monos tropos einai OLOI ane3airetws
> na phgainoun sto starto gi akapoio xroniko diasthma amesws meta to
> lykeio.
>

> Kai mhn barate ton ageloioforo. Pragmatikothtes eipa!

> ___________________________________________________________________
> __|__~~~~~~~~~~~ Thanos (apo to spiti tou Capital Porky '95)
> | ~~~~~~~~~~~ tha...@vlsi.gsfc.nasa.gov
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HELLAS_W3 http://www.Greece.org/hellas
>

Ilias Lantzis

unread,

Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

Gia na jeka8arisoume kai kati.. Outws h allws, ean kapoios einai
pantremenos kai exei 1-2 koutsoubela kanei meiwmenh 8hteia, kai oxi mono
meiwmenh, alla exei kai eidikes uphresies (px, 2 uphresies maximum thn
ebdomada, kai oxi mesa se PSK) bash tou kanonismou.. den jerw ti isxuei
shmera, alla otan hmoun egw strato, gia anw twn 30, me 2 paidia htan 9
mhnes 8hteia.. anupotaktoi kai mh :)

Ilias Lantzis

Vasilios Pierre Iskos

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

>
> Egw loipon eimai "monimos" apo to 89. exw "xeni" upikootita apo to 91,
> kai mia strwmeni koinoniki zwi. se oli tin diarkia ton spoudwn mou i
> ellada den mou edwse mia draxmi .Fisika sinantisa polles diskolies apo

kala otan egine h moirasia gia mas tous upoloipous esu pou eisouna na
pareis to meridio sou;

egw to kalokairi prin er8w, phra enan anixneuth metallwn kai anebhka sto
Bitsi kai epi ena mhna guriza san tou pappa ton skulo, ospou brhka mia
kasa lires apo to antartiko. twra zw mia zwh anamesa sta lousshia kai sta
pusshia.

Basilhs

>
> twra eimai 35, exw ena paidi douleia ktlp ktlp, nomizete oti mporw na
> stamatisw tin zow mou gia 6 mines kai na pao na to paixw

George Bobolos

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

> eug...@attlabs.com grafei:

>>twra eimai 35, exw ena paidi douleia ktlp ktlp, nomizete oti mporw na

>>stamatisw tin zow mou gia 6 mines kai na pao na to paixw "PATRIOTIS".

>>Poios tha zisi tin oikogenia mou edw ??

> Dev exeis katalabei Eugevie oti oi diaforoi ``Lavtzides'' edw mesa eivai

> eksexwvta meln tou sullogou KPP (Katavalwtes Patrikns Periousias) kai oti
> o mesos ``patriwtns-Ellnvaras'' stnv Ellada arxizei va bgazei to pswmi tou
> meta ta 35 tou (n pio vwris av ta tsougkrisei me tov ``gero'' tou)...
> Petros

Kala re Petropoule, apo pou bgazeis esu to sumperasma oti oi Ellnves
arxizouv va douleuouv meta ta 35 ?? Giati egw ekeivo pou 3erw eivai oti
uparxouv polloi foitntes pou parallnla douleuouv, ase pou autoi stous
opoious dev divetai telika n duvatotnta va spoudasouv, ap' ta 20 (amesws
meta tov strato dnladn) bgaivouv sto merokamato. Ektos ki' av eseva o
kuklos sou eivai apo Bardivogiavvn kai pavw, opote, vai, sumfwvoume,
eivai gvwsto pws o Jigger ki' n Mariavva Latsn arxisav va douleuouv meta
ta 30 tous .....

giwrgos

Dimitri Botsis

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

Yannis Papakonstantinou <yan...@CS.UCSD.EDU> grafei:

Enstash!

>delton) Kefalaio "Oi kk Ktenas kai Votsis parapliroforoun"
>Kyrie Anipsie mou, den exw vgalei oute draxmi synalagma, den zitaw thesi apo
>to elliniko dimosio, kai par'ol'ayta den me afinoun na patisw stin xwra. Ki
>epipleon o Votsis den kserei oti apaks kai genithikes Ellinas eisai ypologos
>twn synepeiwn tou nomou eite exeis Amerikaniki eite exeis Areiani
>ypikootita. (Parte Votsi:)

>>Re file afou epele3es na alla3eis i8ageneia ti se noiazei gia to stratiwtiko;

Diplh kitrinh karta Anhpsie, apobalesai kai xaneis kai ton teliko!

alfon) to onoma einai Mpotshs. Den parakolou8eis thn lista oso taktika 8a
eprepe! Pare paradeigma to Petropoulo pou exei 3ekolw8ei na stelnei posting
To paidi egkateleipse gunaika kai spoudes gia thn Hellas.

viton) (akolou8w thn metrhsh sou gia na mhn mperdeuteis :-) )
O monsieur Eugene ws gallos poliths pleon dhlwse sto munhma tou oti
ton endiaferei na gurizei sthn Ellada ws touristas.(E3allou ws numfeumenos meta
Gallidos kai exwn mia a3iopreph zwh eis thn Esperia dhlwse oti den skeftetai
na afhsei douleia kai oikogeneia kai na alla3ei aifnidiws thn gkarntarompa tou-
h opoia upo8etw den 8a sumfenei me to galliko tou pleon, gousto)

Ka8ws upo autes tis sun8hkes exei thn dunatothta na gurizei gia diasthma mexri
kai 6 mhnes (an den apatwmai) periodeuwn ta patria edafh.
Xronos yperarketos gia na dei 8eious/8eies/ afelfes h' kai loipous suggeneis.

Ara eulogws anarwth8ika ti ton noiazei to stratiwtiko;
(Posws den anafer8hka stis "nomikes" upoxrewseis ths katastasews tou pou outws
h' allws den prokeitai na ekplhrwsei o kurios Eugene kai gia ka8e logo praktikhs
exei "3efugei" gia ta kala ws arxikws dhlwsa).

Dimitris

Phidias Bourlas

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

Grafei n Avva Karpa8akn:

>
> eine kai merikoi poy den pisteboun ston strato. diladi, i oikogenia gia
> aftoys toys anthropoys metraei perisotero apo to "ethniko kathikon".
>

Ma mn leme ki o,ti 8eloume. Mporei o Swkratns va eipe to "patros te
kai mntros kai twv allwv progovwv apavtwv timiwterov estiv n patris",
alla as afnsoume to 8ema ierarxnsns. Wraia, n oikogeveia. Ti eivai n
patrida; Dev eivai kai oi oikogeveies mas; "Uper bwmwv kai estiwv" de
leme; To strato gi' auta akribws dev tov 8eloume; "W paides Ellnvwv,
ite, eleu8eroute patrid' eleu8eroute de paidas, guvaikas, 8ewv te
patrwwv edn, 8nkas te progovwv. Nuv uper pavtwv agwv." de leei o
paiavas twv Salamivomaxwv;

>
> ak
>
F.M.

Phidias Bourlas

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

Grafei o Mavwlns Skoufos:

>
> Proswpika pisteuw oti h 0hteia einai proswpikh epilogh me bash tis arxes
> tou ka0enos, tipote perissotero tipote ligotero.
>

Egw pisteuw oti eivai n pleov autovontn kai stoixeiwdns upoxrewsn
tou ka8e Ellnva, alla...

>
> Kai epeidh uparxei ena
> megalo pososto politwn pou einai dusaresthmenoi me thn katastash einai
> *upoxrewsh* twn nomo0etwn na thn e3etasoun...
>

As givei dnmoynfisma: "8ewreite upoxrewsn tou ka8e Ellnva politn
tnv upnresia tns Patridos;" Kobw to kefali mou oti to pososto tou
"NAI" 8a eivai suvtriptiko. O laos eivai perissotero filopatris apo
oso vomizei to ava3io katestnmevo twv salpigktwv tns e8vikns
autoperifrovnsns pou lumaivetai tov topo.
Megalo pososto eivai auto twv Ellnvwv pou eivai dusarestnmevoi
me tn forologia. Giati dev eivai upoxrewsn epomevws twv vomo8etwv va
katargnsouv to foro.
Alla egw 8a pw to allo. As mnv upnretnsei kaveis upoxrewtika!
Proairetikn n 8nteia! De xreiazomaste kavevav, polemame kai movoi mas!
Alla omws, opoios epilegei va mnv upnretnsei, va stereitai ta politika
dikaiwmata. Giati va exei dikaiwma ynfou, dikaiwma va apofasisei gia
tis tuxes mias xwras, kapoios pou arveitai va uperaspistei kai autn
tnv upar3n tns;

>
> (btw h dikh mou epilogh htan na strateutw, gia tous dikous mou logous,
> alla different strokes for different folks...)
>
> Manwlhs
>

F.M.

Phidias Bourlas

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

Grafei o Giavvns Papakwvstavtivou:

>
> viton) Kefalaio "Ithika peri Stratologias".
> Kyrie Anipsie mou, leei o anypotaktos, eimai epistimwn diaprepis kai ara
> prosferw stin Ellada me to oti psarwnw allous epistimones (ligotero
> diaprepeis), psarwnw kati kaimena paidakia pou tous kanw mathima, kai kati
> akoma pio kaimena pou me exoun advisor. Ara prepei na parw paratasi giati
> doksazw tin xwra kai proagw tin epistimi.
> Proswpiki apopsi kata tou epixeirimatos: Ki o Vardinogiannis mporei na
> prosferei dinontas 10-20 dis. Nomizw to vasiko zitoumeno einai i isonomia ki
> oxi i prosfora stin patrida.
> Proswpiki apopsi yper tou epixeirimatos: O Tzigger ta'xei logw mpampa kai
> den ginetai na ton timisoume gi'ayto. O "diaprepis" estrwse ton diko tou
> kwlo omws.
>

O morfwmevos, suveidntopoinmevos Ellnvas politns kalo eivai prwtos
va divei to paradeigma. Kai bebaiws kai eivai 8ema isovomias. Tote va
poume "egw eimai epistnmovara kai gi' auto dev prepei va ka8omai stnv
oura stnv trapeza n' sto taxudromeio, alla va e3upnretoumai prwtos".
Kata t' alla 8a sou apavtnsei kaveis: "Egw bgazw to ywmi mou
skabovtas sta xwrafia n' douleuovtas ergatns apo 10 xrovwv, afnvw
ftwxikn oikogeveia pou apo meva perimevei va znsei kai paw strato
sta 18, kai plnrwvw kai foro wste esu Ellnva foitntara va mporeis va
spoudazeis tzampa xarn sto diko mou idrwta (posa ekatommuria dapava
to kratos gia ka8e foitntn etnsiws; de lew oti kakws to kavei - plnv
"aiwviwv" foitntwv). Twra mou zntas kai ta resta;" (Nai, to 3erw oti
dev prepei va apeu8uvovtai se seva auta` sumfwvoi, se meva!)

>
> H pragmatiki mou apopsi pantws einai oti polys kosmos me kales prooptikes
> (oi opoies apoktountai me poly douleia) tha xantakwthei an paei strato
> afinontas to Pi Tsi Nti n' ta methepomena. Na eiste sigouroi osoi pate gia
> kapoia kali thesi se academia n' research oti den tha sas thymatai polys
> kosmos se dyo-tria xronia. (Vasika oute eseis tha thymaste ti kanate.
> Rwtiste ton tsatsonayti Mpetoniera pou pige ston Starto me laptop kai nomize
> oti tha egrafe paper stin loufa.) Apo ekei kai pera to "diaprepeis" apokta
> to noima oti to kratos dinei mia eykairia se kapoious polites tou pou tin
> exoun sovari anagki ki etsi to vlepw egw. Opws dinei apallagi stous I5, opws
> dinei enallaktiki stous I4 klp klp. Kai kala kanei giati mpainei kai thema
> "image" gia to kratos. Idi gelaei polys kosmos mazi mas (na dineis interview
> se Amerikanous-Gallous-Portogalous kai na sou lene gelwntas "kai me ton
> strato ti tha kaneis") les kai eimaste apo kammia mpanania.
>

Gia tous epistnmoves tou e3wterikou avagvwrizw oti oi suv8nkes
eivai idiazouses.
Kata t' alla vomizw oti telika n lusn eivai 8nteia gia olous sta 18
kai terma ta difragka.

>
> ---Anipsios
>
F.M.

Phidias Bourlas

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

Grafei n Lnda:

>
> On 7 Apr 97 at 15:54, Thanos Voudouris wrote:
>
> > O Stratos filoi mou den einai "eklogh" mas oute kai diaskedasi. Opoioi
> > to blepoun me ayto to mati einai lan8asmenoi.
>

> pros to paron den einai eklogh oute epilogh, einai upoxrewsh, opws
> upoxrewsh einai kai h pshfos....xa.
>

"Foros, ynfos kai stratos" eipe o Pagkalos! (O snmerivos upourgos.)
Av to Suvtagma merikoi to grafouv sta palia tous ta papoutsia de
ftaive autoi, ftaiei to oti uparxei plnrns asudosia se autn tn xwra.

> >
> > O Stratos einai KAQHKON kai YPOXREWSI O L W N. Teleia kai payla.
>

> OLWN?
> Poioi einai autoi ,oi oloi?
> ai gunaikai?
>

Kalomeleta ki erxetai... Hdn meletes tou UpE8A upostnrizouv oti
me to dnmografiko problnma pou uparxei, n strateusn twv guvaikwv 8a
givei suvtoma avagkaia.

> oi poluteknoi, monoteknoi, diteknoi?

> oi pisteyontes se alles 8rhskeies, 8ewries, ahdies?
>

Kakws. Prosfata diabasa oti uparxei evas "sullogos politwv kata tns
evallaktikns 8nteias" (n' kapws etsi) pou mazeuei upografes. 8a brw ta
stoixeia kai 8a ta steilw stn lista.

>
> KA8HKON?
> apenanti se poious?
>
stnv Patrida kai stov eauto mas bebaiws, alla, pragmati, oi
diaforoi e3upvakndes me ta mesa, n ava3iokrateia, ola auta eivai pou
apogonteuouv kammia fora olous mas...
Alla mia kai milame gia "mesov" kai avefera kai tov Pagkalo, 8a brw
kai 8a ferw ti akribws dnlwse o pappous tou twrivou (o diktatwr) gia
to guio tou, otav o teleutaios eprokeito va summetasxei se kapoia
epikivduvn apostoln. A3izei pragmatika.

> tous misous ellhnes polites?

> tous twn meswn kai twn etsi pou thn bgazoun eis pentagwnon,
> polemikon mouseion, tsoliades kai loipes xrhsimes uphresies?
>

Me sugxwreis, alla o aderfos mou upnretei sta te8wrakismeva stov
Ebro kai o pateras mou to '53 zntnse kai pnge e8elovtns stnv Korea.
(Kai twra leei "a3ize autn n empeiria!")

>
> > An h Ellada 9elei na krathsei to stratiwtiko ypoxrewtiko gia olous,
> > tote prepi kai na efarmozetai, kai o monos tropos einai OLOI ane3airetws
> > na phgainoun sto starto gi akapoio xroniko diasthma amesws meta to
> > lykeio.
>

> auto einai swsto.
>
Nai.

>
> to arxidiabolaki >:->
>
F.M.

Emmanuel Skoufos

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

On Tue, 8 Apr 1997, Phidias Bourlas wrote:

> Grafei o Mavwlns Skoufos:

> > Kai epeidh uparxei ena
> > megalo pososto politwn pou einai dusaresthmenoi me thn katastash einai
> > *upoxrewsh* twn nomo0etwn na thn e3etasoun...
> >
> As givei dnmoynfisma: "8ewreite upoxrewsn tou ka8e Ellnva politn
> tnv upnresia tns Patridos;" Kobw to kefali mou oti to pososto tou
> "NAI" 8a eivai suvtriptiko.

0ewrhse tis ekloges tou '81 san dhmoyhfisma otan ena komma tou opoiou o
hgeths den uphrethse thn mama patrida nikhse me suntriptikh pleioyhfia...
(Pou paei na pei oti to gegonos auto - h mh 0hteia - einai se deuterh
moira...)

Manwlhs

Homer Faidas

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

Yannis Papakonstantinou wrote:
>

>
> H pragmatiki mou apopsi pantws einai oti polys kosmos me kales prooptikes
> (oi opoies apoktountai me poly douleia) tha xantakwthei an paei strato
> afinontas to Pi Tsi Nti n' ta methepomena. Na eiste sigouroi osoi pate gia
> kapoia kali thesi se academia n' research oti den tha sas thymatai polys
> kosmos se dyo-tria xronia. (Vasika oute eseis tha thymaste ti kanate.

Basika dev 8a 8umaste ti kavate sto PhD 5 xrovia meta
eite pate strato eite oxi.
Kai etsi prepei va eivai giati av 8umaste snmaivei oti dev bgalate
tnv epistnmovikn pipila akomn apo to stoma.
To PhD dev eivai kati pou to 8umatai kaveis, eivai (idavika) eva test
(dokimasia filtro oti 8es pesto) pou apodeikvuei oti exei kapoies
ikavotntes.
Oi ikavotntes dev xavovtai av pas strato.
Otav eisai 40-50-60 xrovwv 2 xrovia sratou sta 18 n 22 n estw 26
dev kavouv megaln diafora. Malista mporei kai va se apalla3ouv apo
mia epistnmovikn "8nteia" tnv opoia akolou8nses movo kai movo
gia va apofugeis tnv alln.
Bebaia stn snmerivn epistnmovikn agora ergasias 2 xrovia apousias
eivai xarakiri. Alla giauto ftaiei to job market oxi o stratos.
Apo tnv alln meria n upoxrewtikn strateusn sta 18-22 8a periorize
to epistnmoviko glut stov ba8mo pou giauto eu8uvovtai ellnves
fugostratoi. Episns 8a epaue to postdoc va isoduvamei me epistnmoviko
asulo apo diktatorika ka8estwta kai upoxrewtikes 8nteies.

omnros

ug eimai periergos va dw ti epidrasn 8a eixe n upoxrewtikn strateusn
twv guvaikwv stov epaggelmatiko/epistnmoviko tous prosavatolismo
(8a gemizame guvaikes phdoudes n oxi;)

Efthimios Tartaras

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

>0ewrhse tis ekloges tou '81 san dhmoyhfisma otan ena komma tou opoiou o
>hgeths den uphrethse thn mama patrida nikhse me suntriptikh pleioyhfia...
>(Pou paei na pei oti to gegonos auto - h mh 0hteia - einai se deuterh
>moira...)
>
>Manwlhs

ASXETO! Se deuterh moira mporei na einai alla auto den anairei oti
oi perissoteroi den tha sumfwnousan me to erwthma tou pheidia.
Paradeigma: o Papandreou apatouse kai th gunaika tous. Mhpws to
gegonos oti o laos ton pshfise gia prwthupourgo shmainei oti to
egkrinoun kiolas; Oxi vevaia, allo omws oi politikes tou theseis
kai allo h proswpikh tou zwh (eutuxws sthn Ellada toulaxiston
fainetai auto na isxuei ws kapoio vathmo).

Themhs

Lida Anestidou

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

On 8 Apr 97 at 17:37, Phidias Bourlas wrote:

> "Foros, ynfos kai stratos" eipe o Pagkalos! (O snmerivos upourgos.)

kala, o pagkalos eipe kai tous germanous "gigantes me phlina
podia".
Auto ti shmainei?
Oti ton anagame se didaktwra ths Oxfordhs h se malaka periophs?

> Me sugxwreis, alla o aderfos mou upnretei sta te8wrakismeva stov
> Ebro kai o pateras mou to '53 zntnse kai pnge e8elovtns stnv Korea.
> (Kai twra leei "a3ize autn n empeiria!")

Bre Feidia, mhn ta pairneis ola proswpika
Den h3era oti e3iswneis ton adelfo sou me to 50% twn ellhnwn
loufadorwn..aman bre tzanem, aman:)

to arxidiabolaki >:->

Lida Anestidou

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

On 8 Apr 97 at 1:20, Thanos Voudouris wrote:

>
> O Thanos Lhda presbevei oti leei o nomos. Ayto eipa!
>
> Alla fainetai akomh esy kai poloi den to exete katalabei kai den
> blepete thn pragmatikothta. H Elladitsa mas apo kalwshnh kanei straba
> matia kai den efarmozei ton nomo opws prepei. Etsi exei ginei ayto
> to megalo mess. Ti na kanw tous "neous nomous" kai nomosxedia an kai
> ayta me thn parodo tou xronou 9a ta grafoume sta skoupidia?
>
> Esy alwste eisai kai "e3w" apo ton xoro opote dikaiologhmenh.
> Den to paw sto andres/gynaikes twra. Aplws symfwna me ton nomo
> esy kai na 9es den 9a gineis pote lipotakths/ria. ;)

8ano mou, me to sumpa8io, alla to ti leei o nomos to 3eroume oloi.
Giauto eirwneuthka
1. dioti oloi to 3eroume, opws 3eroume oti prepei na plhrwnoume
forous.
kai epeidh to 3eroume, shmainei automata oti to throume kiolas?
Mpourdes kai trixes katsares.
2. Oso gia thn kalwsunh ths Elladitsas, nomizw pws einai polu
afelhs auth sou h apopsh. Den einai 8ema kalwsunhs, 8ano mou, alla
adunamia na upar3ei to kratos XWRIS ta rousfetia kai tis xares kai
tis klikes kai tis koumparies. "Xeri pou se taizei, den to
dagkwneis" leei h paroimia, kai etsi akribws kineitai kai h
ekastote ellhnikh kubernhsh pou gia logous politkous (blepe
pshfous) den tolma na balei to maxairi sto kokkalo kai na ftia3ei
epitelous Mia kai Monadikh nomo8etikh ru8mish gia auto to rhmadi
pou legetai stratiwtikh 8hteia.
3. eimai e3w apo to xoro dioti etsi apofasise h "mama patrida".
An apofasize h mama patrida na paw kai gw strato, opws sto Israhl
fer'eipein, 8a phgaina. Den einai dikh mou epilogh to oti sthn
Ellada mono o antras kaleitai na ekdhlwsei empraktws ta patriwtika
tou fronhmata kai na xasei epipleon ena swro xronia mesta kai
apodotika mpainontas koutsouro apo apopsh stratiwtikhs ekpaideushs
kai bgainontas akomh xeirotero koutsouro, epeidh o stratos mas
kolobara.

Ase me , loipon, se parakalw, dioti an me8aurio kalestei o dikos
mou gios na uphrethsei ston Euro (an akomh o Ebros einai ellhnikh
gh) kai o gios tou geitona th bgazei sto Pentagwno kai gw 8a
ourlia3w gia thn anish metaxeirhsh. Giauto de goustarw tis
diamartyries kai ta farisa.i.ka fronhmata, th stigmh pou einai g i
v e n oti oloi kanoun ta adunata dunata na th skapoularoun.
Toulaxiston na to paradexontan, kati 8a 'tan. Alla, na skizoun ta
rouxa tous gia tous...Allous, kai oi idioi na kanoun ta idia kai
xeirotera, e, re gamwti , paei polu.

to arxidiabolaki >:->

Lida Anestidou

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

On 7 Apr 97 at 22:26, Nick Triandos wrote:

> De mou les re Lhda exei pei kaneis apo mas oti DEN qelei na kanei stratiwtiko?
> To 3eroume oti einai ypoxrewsh, to 3eroume oti kapou kapote prepei na pame
> na yphrethsoume, opws 3eroume epishs oti merikoi apo mas eixame epilogh kai
> kalws h' kakws epile3ame thn anypota3ia gia diaforetikous logous o kaQenas.

niko mou, wraia kai kala osa les.
Ti sxesh exoun me auta pou egrapsa egw, den katalaba.
De nomizw oti diafwnoume pou8ena.

Lhda

to arxidiabolaki >:->

Lida Anestidou

unread,

Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

3exasa, 8emh , na sou e3hghsw ti einai h 4E opws me rwthses.

Einai mia ru8mish pou problepei stratiwtikh anabolh ews kai
apallagh in the future gia tous E3exontes Ellhnes Episthmones tou
E3wterikou.
De 8umamai an ola ta E shmainoun auta pou sou egrapsa, alla mporeis
kai na peis
E3airetoi
E3apodw
E3airoumenoi
Epanapatrismenoi
Epanadiorismenoi
Eleu8erwmenoi
E-bolemenoi

sou susthnw na thn psa3eis th douleia, einai xrhsimo ergaleio
:)

to arxidiabolaki >:->

Thanos Voudouris

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

Lhda grafei...

+> 8ano mou, me to sumpa8io, alla to ti leei o nomos to 3eroume oloi.
+> Giauto eirwneuthka

To kanoume oloi?

+> 1. dioti oloi to 3eroume, opws 3eroume oti prepei na plhrwnoume
+> forous.
+> kai epeidh to 3eroume, shmainei automata oti to throume kiolas?
+> Mpourdes kai trixes katsares.

Egw pantws plhrwnw oti prepei symfwna me to nomo.

+> 2. Oso gia thn kalwsunh ths Elladitsas, nomizw pws einai polu
+> afelhs auth sou h apopsh. Den einai 8ema kalwsunhs, 8ano mou, alla
+> adunamia na upar3ei to kratos XWRIS ta rousfetia kai tis xares kai
+> tis klikes kai tis koumparies. "Xeri pou se taizei, den to
+> dagkwneis" leei h paroimia, kai etsi akribws kineitai kai h
+> ekastote ellhnikh kubernhsh pou gia logous politkous (blepe
+> pshfous) den tolma na balei to maxairi sto kokkalo kai na ftia3ei
+> epitelous Mia kai Monadikh nomo8etikh ru8mish gia auto to rhmadi
+> pou legetai stratiwtikh 8hteia.

Ta problhmata ths Ellados einai gnwsta. Alla an skeftetai o ka9e enas
na kanei oti ekane o allos, tote yparxei kai h xawdhs katastash.
Fysika symbalei h mh efarmogh/astynomeysh twn nomwn apo to kratos.

Den eipe kaneis oti den xreiazetai genhkh anakainhsi sto strotologiko.
Symfonw apolyta edw. Aplws lew oti symfwna me ton shmerino nomo,
o ka9e enas kyrhx9hke anypotaktos e3 eaytou bash tou tote nomou.

+> 3. eimai e3w apo to xoro dioti etsi apofasise h "mama patrida".
+> An apofasize h mama patrida na paw kai gw strato, opws sto Israhl
+> fer'eipein, 8a phgaina.

Dhladh den 9a hsoun "anypotakth" qeleis na peis?

+> Den einai dikh mou epilogh to oti sthn
+> Ellada mono o antras kaleitai na ekdhlwsei empraktws ta patriwtika
+> tou fronhmata kai na xasei epipleon ena swro xronia mesta kai
+> apodotika mpainontas koutsouro apo apopsh stratiwtikhs ekpaideushs
+> kai bgainontas akomh xeirotero koutsouro, epeidh o stratos mas
+> kolobara.

Eipame xreiazetai anakainhsi to systhma.

+> Ase me , loipon, se parakalw, dioti an me8aurio kalestei o dikos
+> mou gios na uphrethsei ston Euro (an akomh o Ebros einai ellhnikh
+> gh) kai o gios tou geitona th bgazei sto Pentagwno kai gw 8a
+> ourlia3w gia thn anish metaxeirhsh. Giauto de goustarw tis
+> diamartyries kai ta farisa.i.ka fronhmata, th stigmh pou einai g i
+> v e n oti oloi kanoun ta adunata dunata na th skapoularoun.
+> Toulaxiston na to paradexontan, kati 8a 'tan. Alla, na skizoun ta
+> rouxa tous gia tous...Allous, kai oi idioi na kanoun ta idia kai
+> xeirotera, e, re gamwti , paei polu.

H anish metaxeirhsi einai mono ena epixeirhma. DEN prepei na einai
logos na apofygoume to stratiwtiko.

Gia na kleisw, dioti to 9ema einai apato, lew oti:
1. oi nomoi prepei na tyrountai.
2. La9os megalo tou kratous pou afhse to 9ema na keileisth sthn abyso.
3. An pte kanoun ayta t anea nomosxedia, elpizw na einai isothma
gia olous.

+> to arxidiabolaki >:->

Ilias Lantzis

unread,

Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

A.. se parakalw... o sxwremenos uphrethse sto Amerikaniko Nautiko.

Ilias Lantzis
PS.. fantazeste na gurisei o petropoulos (pou exei akriba idia
qualifications me ton sxwremeno) sta 50 tou sthn Ellada kai na katebei
stis ekloges???????

E re ti exei na ginei :)

On Tue, 8 Apr 1997, Emmanuel Skoufos wrote:

> On Tue, 8 Apr 1997, Phidias Bourlas wrote:
>
> > Grafei o Mavwlns Skoufos:
> > > Kai epeidh uparxei ena
> > > megalo pososto politwn pou einai dusaresthmenoi me thn katastash einai
> > > *upoxrewsh* twn nomo0etwn na thn e3etasoun...
> > >
> > As givei dnmoynfisma: "8ewreite upoxrewsn tou ka8e Ellnva politn
> > tnv upnresia tns Patridos;" Kobw to kefali mou oti to pososto tou
> > "NAI" 8a eivai suvtriptiko.
>

Beratlis Nikolaos

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Lida Anestidou wrote:

>
> OLWN?
> Poioi einai autoi ,oi oloi?
> ai gunaikai?

> oi poluteknoi, monoterknoi, diteknoi?

> oi pisteyontes se alles 8rhskeies, 8ewries, ahdies?

milame gia tous antres.bebaia telika tha prepei na e3airesoume ton
petropoulo giati blepontas to oti o magkas 3erei apo ta merh pou suxnazoun
oi pousthdes edw sthn washington katalabainw oti bazei papari ston kwlo
tou suxna.

> KA8HKON?
> apenanti se poious?

> tous misous ellhnes polites?
> tous twn meswn kai twn etsi pou thn bgazoun eis pentagwnon,
> polemikon mouseion, tsoliades kai loipes xrhsimes uphresies?
> >

> > Twra an kapoios parei anabolh, sxoleio, oikogeneia, paidia kai.. 30+ xronwn,
> > pios ftaiei? To kratos? Oxi fysika.
>
>

> H maria h pentagiwtissa ftaiei pou sxediase tous nomous kai tis
> anagkes tou ellhnikou kratous toso sofa pou uparxoun ekato xiliades
> trupares na 3efugei kaneis apo tis "dagkanes" tou stratou.
>

> > Den h3ere tis ypoxrewseis tou prin na ftasei sto shmeio anypota3ias?
>

> Kai ta dikaiwmata tou?
> Auta giati den anaferontai pote?
> >

> > Aman pia! Exw bare9ei na akouw ton ka9ena pws na mporesei na thn
skapoularei.
>

> Gouai 8ano?
> Afou einai to e8niko spor.
>

> > An h Ellada 9elei na krathsei to stratiwtiko ypoxrewtiko gia olous,
> > tote prepi kai na efarmozetai, kai o monos tropos einai OLOI ane3airetws
> > na phgainoun sto starto gi akapoio xroniko diasthma amesws meta to
> > lykeio.
>
> auto einai swsto.
>

> to arxidiabolaki >:->
>

nikos valassis

Tzovenis Ioannis

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

To prwto prwto pou yaxveis gi'auta eivai to mesov to opoio prepei va eivai
dia0esimo kai kata tnv upoboln kai kuriws ama tn emfavisei stnv epitropn
ap'opou 0a perasei. Kata ta alla eva PhD kai sumbolaio me megalo mn
idiwtiko forea arkei. Paradeigmata: NASA, EU, CERN, FAO, UNESCO, NATO, UN
etc.

Ioannis Tzovenis
efedros ypoloxagos (EM)....(emeis tnv patnsame....that is..).

Vasilios Pierre Iskos

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

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>
> Na piveis kafe stnv Glufada kai va trexeis me 200 km/h stnv Poseidwvos...
> auta ta ksexases...kai gamw tous autoskopous...

O Lantzhs, Petropoule, pantreutike kai poulhse ta filaria tou. Niw8w opws
o Balter Rerl otan pantreutike o sunodhgos tou o Mikola paramones tou
RALLEY ths Finlandias. Eklaige autos, to AUDI QUATTRO, kai ta 350 aloga.

sthn Poseidonos ta 200 km/h einai oneiro 8erino. proteino gia tous
epido3ous ama3i me mprostini kinhsh, sklhres anarthseis, xamhlo strofo, na
dokimasoun thn tuxh tous sthn EIDIKH (Tripolh-Patra) mesw ths 'e8nikhs
odou' 111. Prosoxh sta duo sunexomeno S e3w apo ta Pagkrataika, sta
gefurakia mesa kai e3w apo thn Lampeia 'Dibrh', enw sthn eu8eia e3w apo
thn Strezoba to podi sto gkazi, frenaroume me to aristero kai mpainoume
mesa me tis mpantes.

Basilhs

>
> >esu blaka mou, ektos tou oti se taizei h gunaika sou, kai
> >exeis kruftei sto USA giati se caxnei h stratonomia, den exeis tipote allo
> >na deijeis apo thn zwh sou.
>
> Eipame: ``mnv kriveis eks idiwv ta allotria''...
>
> Petros
>

Lida Anestidou

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

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On 9 Apr 97 at 0:14, Nikos Sarantakos wrote:

> Lhda, ta exeis mplejei ligo it sims tou mi.
> O Pagkal/kos eipe gia giganta me mualo mikrou paidiou.
> Ta phlina podia einai poluuu palioterh istoria, nomizw pane pisw sth Biblo
> (Danihl ki etsi).
>
mprabo, bre Niko..kai elega kai gw..kati de mou paei kala etsi opws
parafrazw ton Pagkalo..:)
h ousia, omws, paramenei h idia..an sebesai kapoion dineis kai thn
analogh shmasia se auta pou leei
alliws, gelas kai su (opws esena pou sou aresei na malwnei me
germanous) kai emena mou fainetai sa mikro kokkori pou kanei
maggitses wspou na to kanoune nta...

to arxidiabolaki >:->

Nikos Sarantakos

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Apr 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/9/97

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At 09:39 =EC=EC 8/4/1997 GMT, you wrote:
>In bit.listserv.hellas, Lida Anestidou

><anes...@GIRCH1.MED.UTH.TMC.EDU> wrote:
>
>>On 8 Apr 97 at 17:37, Phidias Bourlas wrote:
>
>
>>> "Foros, ynfos kai stratos" eipe o Pagkalos! (O snmerivos upourgos.)
>
>>kala, o pagkalos eipe kai tous germanous "gigantes me phlina
>>podia".
>>Auto ti shmainei?
>>Oti ton anagame se didaktwra ths Oxfordhs h se malaka periophs?
>

Lhda, ta exeis mplejei ligo it sims tou mi.
O Pagkal/kos eipe gia giganta me mualo mikrou paidiou.
Ta phlina podia einai poluuu palioterh istoria, nomizw pane pisw sth Biblo
(Danihl ki etsi).

NS
UG
Emena pantws m'aresei otan mallwnei me Germanous.

Angelos Christophoros

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Apr 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/9/97

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Feidia ti vrhka:

> Av to Suvtagma merikoi to grafouv sta palia tous ta papoutsia de
> ftaive autoi, ftaiei to oti uparxei plnrns asudosia se autn tn xwra.

Mhn ta polyfwnazeis ayta, giati kati periegra mails me "amfivolies" gia
thn Proedreyomenh Dhmokratia exoun emfanistei sth lista me ypografh F.M.
Alh8eia teleytaia de se vlepw idiaitera zwhro ws pros thn enhmerwsh mas
gia ta tektainomena twn gonwn Glyksmpourgk-Miler.

> F.M.

Angelos

George Bobolos

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Apr 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/9/97

to

>> Na piveis kafe stnv Glufada kai va trexeis me 200 km/h stnv Poseidwvos...
>> auta ta ksexases...kai gamw tous autoskopous...

> O Lantzhs, Petropoule, pantreutike kai poulhse ta filaria tou. Niw8w opws
> o Balter Rerl otan pantreutike o sunodhgos tou o Mikola paramones tou
> RALLEY ths Finlandias. Eklaige autos, to AUDI QUATTRO, kai ta 350 aloga.
> sthn Poseidonos ta 200 km/h einai oneiro 8erino. proteino gia tous
> epido3ous ama3i me mprostini kinhsh, sklhres anarthseis, xamhlo strofo, na
> dokimasoun thn tuxh tous sthn EIDIKH (Tripolh-Patra) mesw ths 'e8nikhs
> odou' 111. Prosoxh sta duo sunexomeno S e3w apo ta Pagkrataika, sta
> gefurakia mesa kai e3w apo thn Lampeia 'Dibrh', enw sthn eu8eia e3w apo
> thn Strezoba to podi sto gkazi, frenaroume me to aristero kai mpainoume
> mesa me tis mpantes.
> Basilhs

Isko, egw proteivw tnv "Akropolikn" xwmativn "Bw3ites", me "ftiagmevo"
opoiasdnpote markas, me kalo suvodngo (e, as eivai ki' o Pironnen, o
suvodngos tou Kankunen, 8a tov upostoume ...) pou va sta "diabazei" ola
ki' oxi va 3exvaei tis mises strofes :-), ekei va deis ti wraia pou
eivai ..... :-)

giwrgos

Phidias Bourlas

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Apr 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/9/97

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Apavtnse ndn o 8emns stnv erwtnsn tou Mavwln:

>
> >0ewrhse tis ekloges tou '81 san dhmoyhfisma otan ena komma tou opoiou o
> >hgeths den uphrethse thn mama patrida nikhse me suntriptikh pleioyhfia...
> >(Pou paei na pei oti to gegonos auto - h mh 0hteia - einai se deuterh
> >moira...)
> >
> >Manwlhs
>

> ASXETO! Se deuterh moira mporei na einai alla auto den anairei oti
> oi perissoteroi den tha sumfwnousan me to erwthma tou pheidia.
> Paradeigma: o Papandreou apatouse kai th gunaika tous. Mhpws to
> gegonos oti o laos ton pshfise gia prwthupourgo shmainei oti to
> egkrinoun kiolas; Oxi vevaia, allo omws oi politikes tou theseis
> kai allo h proswpikh tou zwh (eutuxws sthn Ellada toulaxiston
> fainetai auto na isxuei ws kapoio vathmo).
>

Alla' egw 8a elega kai kati parapavw. To skeptiko tou Mavwln (n',
akoma perissotero ki apo to pou' kai pw's upnretnse o makaritns, to
8ema tou "e8vikou prosavatolismou", "patriwtikns suveidnsns" k.lp.
tou PASOK) gia emeva mporei va ntav ikavos logos gia va mnv ynfisw
PASOK, gia pollous omws apo osous to ynfisav ntav logos akribws gia
va to ynfisouv! Dev evvow oti to ynfisav logw apousias patriwtikns
suveidnsns, akribws to avti8eto, to ynfisav epeidn 8ewrousav oti
auto akribws to komma eivai patriwtiko! O suvtrofos Skeboulns dev
elege oti o makaritns ntav o politikos ngetns akribws pou tov ekave
e8vika upernfavo; Emeva de me ekave e8vika upernfavo kai dev tov
ynfisa. Alla toso egw oso kai o suvtrofos Skeboulns 8elame mia
politikn ngesia pou 8a ekave tnv Ellada e8vika upernfavn.

>
> Themhs
>
F.M.

Phidias Bourlas

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Apr 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/9/97

to

> [...] mpainontas koutsouro apo apopsh stratiwtikhs ekpaideushs

> kai bgainontas akomh xeirotero koutsouro, epeidh o stratos mas

> kolobara.

> Ase me , loipon, se parakalw, dioti an me8aurio kalestei o dikos

> mou gios na uphrethsei ston Euro (an akomh o Ebros einai ellhnikh

> gh) [...]
>
Autn n aisiodo3ia sou bre Lnda, tsakizei kokkala! :-)

>
> to arxidiabolaki >:->
>
F.M.

eugene

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Apr 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/9/97

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:)

Phidias Bourlas

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Apr 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/9/97

to

Sumbouleuei o Aggelos:

>
> Feidia ti vrhka:
> > Av to Suvtagma merikoi to grafouv sta palia tous ta papoutsia de
> > ftaive autoi, ftaiei to oti uparxei plnrns asudosia se autn tn xwra.
>
> Mhn ta polyfwnazeis ayta, giati kati periegra mails me "amfivolies" gia
> thn Proedreyomenh Dhmokratia exoun emfanistei sth lista me ypografh F.M.
>

Mpa... isa-isa, oxi movo apodexomai to politeuma pou kalws n' kakws
exoume, afou allwste dev ufistatai politeiako zntnma gia twra kai
gia to orato mellov, alla 8ewrw oti kai va mporouse va te8ei twra
politeiako zntnma, 8a eprepe kalutera va koita3oume va avtimetwpisoume
ta polu snmavtikotera problnmata pou exoume, va xrnsimopoioume dnladn
tis puraulakatous tou P.N. gia va empodizoume tous Tourkous commandos
va kavouv apobasn sta vnsia mas, avti va empodizoume filnsuxes
oikogeveies me mikra paidia pou erxovtai gia tis diakopes tous va
kavouv apobasn sto Gu8eio!

>
> Alh8eia teleytaia de se vlepw idiaitera zwhro ws pros thn enhmerwsh
> mas gia ta tektainomena twn gonwn Glyksmpourgk-Miler.
>

Nai re gamwto, tipota dev akouw. Faivetai pws n prigkipissa mas apo
tote pou egive mama exei stamatnsei tnv aswtn zwn kai de bgaivei pia
tipota goustoziko stn fora! :-)

>
> Angelos
>
F.M.