Neo HTHOS
Abdullah the Butcher
"O Dionyshs Papadopoulos egraje:"
>
> Ena deigma grafhs apo to neo arxiepiskopo Xristodoulo:
Gia ta ypoloipa deigmata parapempw sto www.stoxos.com
> Den xrhsimopoihse kanena apo ta Lear Jet pou tou
> prosferthikan gia thn prosfath episkepsh tou sthn
> Kwnstantinoupolh(3 synolika,ena to prwthypourgiko,ena tou
> epixeirhmatia Kontomhna kai ena akomh apo enan allo epixeirhmatia
> tou opoiou to onoma den thymamai).
> Ant' aytou xrhsimopoihse thn Olympiakh kai plhrwse toso aytos
> oso kai h synodeia tou kanonika to eisithrio tou( na thymisw
> posa dis apo eishtiria xrwstane sthn olympiakh ta diafora kommata?)
Mnpws ta3ideje kai touristikn 9esn; Aytn tn leptomereia pws kai de tn
ma9ame;
> Poly kala ksekinhse kai mprabo tou
> Dionyshs
Tnv epomevn fora 9a mpei stnv Poln ngoumevos :-) twv agriwv stifwv twv
avagvwstwv tou Kajaln... ;-)
Abdul
PS> Arage to oti evas fasistas tou kerata tyxaivei gevikns ektimnsns eivai
giati:
a) Eivai o PapaRas kai eivai omorfovios; ;-)
b) Oi perissoteroi Ellnves eivai fasistes kai dev to exouv parei eidnsn.
c) Eivai o veos arxiepiskopos kai oi perissoteroi dev exouv parei eidnsn
ti fasistario pou eivai.
Yiannis Chassapidis
At 11:31 PM 6/23/98 +0300, Dionyshs Papadopoulos wrote:
>Abdullah the Butcher wrote:
>>
>> "O Dionyshs Papadopoulos egraje:"
>> >
>> > Ena deigma grafhs apo to neo arxiepiskopo Xristodoulo:
>>
>> Gia ta ypoloipa deigmata parapempw sto www.stoxos.com
>
>kata th diarkeia ths othomanikhs katoxhs)
>
>> > Den xrhsimopoihse kanena apo ta Lear Jet pou tou
>> > prosferthikan gia thn prosfath episkepsh tou sthn
>> > Kwnstantinoupolh(3 synolika,ena to prwthypourgiko,ena tou
>> > epixeirhmatia Kontomhna kai ena akomh apo enan allo epixeirhmatia
>> > tou opoiou to onoma den thymamai).
>> > Ant' aytou xrhsimopoihse thn Olympiakh kai plhrwse toso aytos
>> > oso kai h synodeia tou kanonika to eisithrio tou( na thymisw
>> > posa dis apo eishtiria xrwstane sthn olympiakh ta diafora kommata?)
>>
>> Mnpws ta3ideje kai touristikn 9esn; Aytn tn leptomereia pws kai de tn
>> ma9ame;
>
>jet ta opoia ta esteile apo ekei pou hrthan
>
>> > Poly kala ksekinhse kai mprabo tou
>> > Dionyshs
>>
>> Tnv epomevn fora 9a mpei stnv Poln ngoumevos :-) twv agriwv stifwv twv
>> avagvwstwv tou Kajaln... ;-)
>> giati:
>> a) Eivai o PapaRas kai eivai omorfovios; ;-)
>> b) Oi perissoteroi Ellnves eivai fasistes kai dev to exouv parei eidnsn.
>> c) Eivai o veos arxiepiskopos kai oi perissoteroi dev exouv parei eidnsn
>> ti fasistario pou eivai.
>
>tou sto www.stoxos.com eite apo allou?
> Na sou thymisw oti sthn enarkthria omilia tou eipe ws kindyno gia
>ton lao mas ton ratsismo?(pragma pou an thes proswpika me briskei
>antitheto mia kai de nomizw oti oi ellhnes einai ratsistes)
> To an milhse se ena entypo pou esy h genika kapoioi to thewroun
>fasistiko ton kathista aytomata fasista?
> Egw kserw oti shmasia exei to TI leei kapoios kai oxi pou milaei.
Kai egw jerw oti shmasia exei to ti KANEI kapoios kai oxi to ti leei.
Kai oi prajeis toy neoy papa apo thn wra poy ton topo8ethse ekei
poy einai twra mia foyxta allwn papadwn ka8e allo para dhmokrath 8ymizoyn.
Kai milaw mono gia ta teleytaia.
Giati an pame pio pisw..........
>To na kollame tampeles se atoma pou "tolmoun" na pane se
>sygkekrimenous xwrous h na milane se sygkekrimena entypa klp
>XWRIS na eksetazoume to ti lene,mou fainetai akrws fasistiko,gia
>na mh sou pw nazistiko.
>
>Dionyshs
>
Yiannis Chassapidis
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Dionyshs Papadopoulos
> >
> > Mporeis na breis sta legomena tou mia fasistikh frash?Eite sthn omilia
> >tou sto www.stoxos.com eite apo allou?
> > Na sou thymisw oti sthn enarkthria omilia tou eipe ws kindyno gia
> >ton lao mas ton ratsismo?(pragma pou an thes proswpika me briskei
> >antitheto mia kai de nomizw oti oi ellhnes einai ratsistes)
> > To an milhse se ena entypo pou esy h genika kapoioi to thewroun
> >fasistiko ton kathista aytomata fasista?
> > Egw kserw oti shmasia exei to TI leei kapoios kai oxi pou milaei.
>
> Kai egw jerw oti shmasia exei to ti KANEI kapoios kai oxi to ti leei.
> Kai oi prajeis toy neoy papa apo thn wra poy ton topo8ethse ekei
> poy einai twra mia foyxta allwn papadwn ka8e allo para dhmokrath 8ymizoyn.
>
> Kai milaw mono gia ta teleytaia.
> Giati an pame pio pisw..........
>
Se poies prakseis anaferesai?
Dionyshs
Yiannis Chassapidis
h aisxrh epi8esh (an kai meta ekane pisw san kalos dikolabos)
enantion toy PROEDROY ths Dhmokratias kai kati alla cila
poy deixnoyn to poion toy typoy.
Kai bebaia o xasaphs (gia ton abdul lew) exei dikio.
An mporeis na mpeis pisw apo ta logia, katalabaineis
thn toylaxiston antidhmokratikh nootropia aytoy toy typoy.
Dionyshs Papadopoulos
Mporeis na breis sta legomena tou mia fasistikh frash?Eite sthn omilia
tou sto www.stoxos.com eite apo allou?
Na sou thymisw oti sthn enarkthria omilia tou eipe ws kindyno gia
ton lao mas ton ratsismo?(pragma pou an thes proswpika me briskei
antitheto mia kai de nomizw oti oi ellhnes einai ratsistes)
To an milhse se ena entypo pou esy h genika kapoioi to thewroun
fasistiko ton kathista aytomata fasista?
Egw kserw oti shmasia exei to TI leei kapoios kai oxi pou milaei.
Abdullah the Butcher
"O Dionyshs Papadopoulos egraje:"
> Ekei milhse gia tous neomartyres ths ekkllhsias (=martyres ths pistews
> kata th diarkeia ths othomanikhs katoxhs)
Twra tnv koloky9ia 9a paizoume; O Kajalns tou opoiou to egkwmio eple3e
veomartyras ntav ki aytos; Kai pws kai zei akoma; Prokeitai mnpws gia
brykolaka; ;-)
> > Mnpws ta3ideje kai touristikn 9esn; Aytn tn leptomereia pws kai de tn
> > ma9ame;
>
> Den to kserw ayto alla den exei tosh shmasia.Edw sou milaw gia lear
> jet ta opoia ta esteile apo ekei pou hrthan
Apo pou nr9av; :-) Kai giati dev exei snmasia; Dnladn av plnrwse eva alfa
poso gia va ta3idejei prwtn 9esn avti gia eva mikrotero poso gia va paei
touristikn me to laoutziko dev kavei diafora; Ta epipleov xrnmata de 9a
mporousav va eixav paei se kalyterous skopous apo tnv avesn aytou kai tns
syvodeias tou; :-)
> > > Poly kala ksekinhse kai mprabo tou
> > > Dionyshs
> >
> > Tnv epomevn fora 9a mpei stnv Poln ngoumevos :-) twv agriwv stifwv twv
> > avagvwstwv tou Kajaln... ;-)
> > PS> Arage to oti evas fasistas tou kerata tyxaivei gevikns ektimnsns eivai
> > giati:
> > a) Eivai o PapaRas kai eivai omorfovios; ;-)
> > b) Oi perissoteroi Ellnves eivai fasistes kai dev to exouv parei eidnsn.
> > c) Eivai o veos arxiepiskopos kai oi perissoteroi dev exouv parei eidnsn
> > ti fasistario pou eivai.
>
> Mporeis na breis sta legomena tou mia fasistikh frash?Eite sthn omilia
> tou sto www.stoxos.com eite apo allou?
Megale av esy de blepeis tov fasismo sto keimevo pou plekei to egkwmio tou
Kajaln kai twv 9esewv tou ws ellnvokevtrikes, ellnvojyxes kai de 3erw ki
egw ti allo avarwtiemai pou tov blepeis...
> Na sou thymisw oti sthn enarkthria omilia tou eipe ws kindyno gia
> ton lao mas ton ratsismo?(pragma pou an thes proswpika me briskei
> antitheto mia kai de nomizw oti oi ellhnes einai ratsistes)
A, wste gi' ayto 9aymazei tov Kajaln, giati eivai avtiratsistas... Ma mas
douleyeis; Oxi tipot' allo alla ti exei *kavei* gia to 9ema ayto; Ektos
apo to va mas 3avagyrizei stis epoxes tou Ellas-Ellnvwv-Xristiavwv.
> To an milhse se ena entypo pou esy h genika kapoioi to thewroun
> fasistiko ton kathista aytomata fasista?
Allo to va "milnseis" ki allo to va symmetasxeis se syvedrio pou orgavwvei
kapoios fasistaros kai va tov egkwmiazeis apo pavw. Kai meta va bgaiveis
kai va milas kai gia graikylous...
> Egw kserw oti shmasia exei to TI leei kapoios kai oxi pou milaei.
Em, ti sou ftaiw egw pou kai ayta pou diabazeis dev ta katalabaiveis...
> To na kollame tampeles se atoma pou "tolmoun" na pane se
> sygkekrimenous xwrous h na milane se sygkekrimena entypa klp
> XWRIS na eksetazoume to ti lene,mou fainetai akrws fasistiko,gia
> na mh sou pw nazistiko.
Oxi, oxi pes mou va ma9w... Perimevw avalnsn tns diaforas twv 2 epi9etwv
kai giati to eva tairiazei akoma perissotero apo to allo...
Abdul
Nikos Sarantakos
At 11:31 ìì 23/06/98 +0300, Dionyshs Papadopoulos wrote:
>To na kollame tampeles se atoma pou "tolmoun" na pane se
>sygkekrimenous xwrous h na milane se sygkekrimena entypa klp
>XWRIS na eksetazoume to ti lene,mou fainetai akrws fasistiko,gia
>na mh sou pw nazistiko.
Ara, katadikazeis olous tous ierarxes pou ta epsalan ston episkopo
Zakunqou epeidh milhse sto Playboy? Tous qewreis nazistes?
Piperi sto stoma!
ns
Phidias Bourlas
Xasapn,
mporeis va mou e3ngnseis pou' eivai to kako va summetasxei kapoios
se eva suvedrio gia tous Ellnves veomartures kai va epaivesei tnv
orgavwsn evos tetoiou a3iologou suvedriou;
Kai av o Stoxos kavei kati kalo, mprabo tou.
Allou, opou mporei va diafwvoume, va tov katakrivoume.
Gia sugkekrimeves apoyeis tou arxiepiskopou, exeis va peis tipota;
Na diabaseis sto http://www.i-m-dimitriados.gr ti leei, mporei va breis
polla pragmata sta opoia diafwveis, va mas peis sugkekrimeva omws se ti
akribws diafwveis. Pes p.x. oti diafwveis sto 8ema xwrismou Ekklnsias-
kratous, gi' autov kai gi' autov tov logo, alla mnv kollas tampeles.
Gia tov ratsismo pou eipes, egw 8umamai priv tnv eklogn tou, kata
to Pasxa, ar8ro tou stnv Ka8nmerivn gia to asumbato Or8odo3ias kai
ratsismou. Apo tis prwtes tou evergeies meta tnv eklogn tou ntav n
summetoxn stn sugkevtrwsn tns GSEE tnv Prwtomagia, opou katnggeile ta
ratsistika faivomeva. Gia poiov ratsismo milas telos pavtwv;
Grafei twra o Giavvns o Xasapidns:
>
> Milaw gia PRAJEIS opws h topo8ethsh toy Kalewdh sthn e8imotypia,
>
Giati dnladn, epeidn o sugkekrimevos iereas ntav stn basilikn
auln prepei va... diwx8ei; Ti ratsismos eivai autos; Gia tn 8esn tou
(upeu8uvos e8imotupias) eivai o pleov katallnlos.
>
> h aisxrh epi8esh (an kai meta ekane pisw san kalos dikolabos)
> enantion toy PROEDROY ths Dhmokratias
>
To "aisxrn" mou arese. (Kai n plaka eivai pou oi favatikoi
palaionmerologites, to kokkivo pavi ka8e sebomevou tov eauto tou
"proodeutikou" egivav 3afvika... sumpa8eis, prokeimevou va plngei o
arxiepiskopos.) Dev 3erw ti 8a kavei o Xristodoulos me to problnma twv
palaionmerologitwv (etsi favatikoi pou eivai 8a ta brei skoura), eav
omws eixe 3ekivnsei ndn evergeies proseggisns kai avtimetwpisns tou
problnmatos, kai sugkekrimeves omades (dioti uparxouv polles) tou
palaionmerologitikou xwrou xrnsimopoinsouv tnv episkeyn autn gia va
torpilisouv tis parapavw diadikasies (para tn 8elnsn tou proedrou tns
Dnmokratias), tote isws apodeix8ei oti n suvevvonsn twv palaio-
nmerologitwv me tnv politeia 8a mporouse va givei pio prosektika.
>
> kai kati alla cila
> poy deixnoyn to poion toy typoy.
>
To poiov tou tupou to deixvei n diayeusn twv elpidwv twv
diaplekomevwv sumferovtwv, ta opoia vomizav oti 8a tov exouv tou xeriou
tous.
F.M.
Lida Anestidou
Dionyshs Papadopoulos wrote:
> Oson afora to ti einai fasistiko ,na se parapempsw sto gegonos oti
> kata th diarkeia ths xountas sthn ellada,opoios akouge theodorakh=kom-
> mounisths.
stekeis, nee mou? sugkrineis thn epoxh ths xountas me th dhmokratia pou
exoume shmera?
ma kala, ti ftaime re gamwti na gemizei h lista kopanous ka8e treis kai
ligo,mou lete?
L.
Dionyshs Papadopoulos
Sygkrinw NOOTROPIES .Opoios akouei theodorwrakh=kommounisths=sto pyr
to ekswteron einai idio me to: opoios erxetai se epafh me ton kapsalh
=fasistas=sto pyr to ekswtero.Otan se kammia apo tis dyo periptwseis
den eksetazei(o Abdul h o opoiosdhpote abdul) to ti leei o kathenas
(gia na mh mou stenoxwriesai oute exw kammia sxesh oute diabazw stoxo)
Oso gia ta epitheta sou ta epistrefw me poly agaph
Dionyshs
Lida Anestidou
Dionyshs Papadopoulos wrote:
>
> Sygkrinw NOOTROPIES .
bre anohte, ti nootropies na sugkrineis otan h 8esh sou einai e3 arxhs
lan8asmenh?
nootropies 8a sugkrineis otan h koinwnikh, politikh kai oikonomikh domh
stis opoies anaferontai einai paremfereis h omoies.
ti nohma exei na sygkrineis th nootropia tou laou en mesw stratiwtikou
ka8estwtos, opou ta basika an8rwpina dikaiwmata exoun fugei klwtshdon,
kai en mesw dhmokratias, opou dikaioutai o ka8eis na kamei polla, kai na
pei akoma perissoetra?
k a n e n a den exei.
einai sa na les 8a sugkrinw th morfwsh enos laou pou peina me enan pou
exei na faei. einai asxeth h morfwsh th stigmh pou to epipedo epibiwshs
einai toso drastika diaforetiko.
> Oso gia ta epitheta sou ta epistrefw me poly agaph
ai lab giou tou, mpeimpi.
L.
Abdullah the Butcher
"O Dionyshs Papadopoulos egraje:"
>
> Abdullah the Butcher wrote:
[snip]
> > > > Mnpws ta3ideje kai touristikn 9esn; Aytn tn leptomereia pws kai de tn
> > > > ma9ame;
> > >
> > > Den to kserw ayto alla den exei tosh shmasia.Edw sou milaw gia lear
> > > jet ta opoia ta esteile apo ekei pou hrthan
> >
> > Apo pou nr9av; :-) Kai giati dev exei snmasia; Dnladn av plnrwse eva alfa
> > poso gia va ta3idejei prwtn 9esn avti gia eva mikrotero poso gia va paei
> > touristikn me to laoutziko dev kavei diafora; Ta epipleov xrnmata de 9a
> > mporousav va eixav paei se kalyterous skopous apo tnv avesn aytou kai tns
> > syvodeias tou; :-)
>
> Den kserw an phge me touristikh h oxi.Auto pou kserw einai oti einai
> o prwtos pou diwxnei ta lear JET pou tou stelnoun kai paei me thn
> kratikh etaireia kai epipleon plhrwnei kanonika to eisithrio.
> Esy pws milas gia to oti den phge me aplo eisithrio?To ksereis oti
> den phge?Olo to oikodomhma sou stizetai se mia proswpikh sou
> aythaireth ypothesh.
To afnsa to keimevo pio pavw gia va to *empedwseis* priv syvexiseis va
milas gia "oikodomnmata"... Egw *rwtnsa* kati ki esy mou eipes pws "dev
exei snmasia" opote egw e3ngnsa giati exei snmasia. Ta *oikodomnmata* ta
afnvw stov Xristodoulo gia *otav* ta kavei... Mia kai dnlwveis adiabastos
va rwtnsw tous loipous Xristo-doulous tns listas (Feidias, Botsns,
Mpompolos) mpas kai mporouv va mou lysouv tnv aporia...
[snip afnvw ki ayto gia empedwsn]
> > Megale av esy de blepeis tov fasismo sto keimevo pou plekei to egkwmio tou
> > Kajaln kai twv 9esewv tou ws ellnvokevtrikes, ellnvojyxes kai de 3erw ki
> > egw ti allo avarwtiemai pou tov blepeis...
Mia kai elaba kai paraklnsn kai dev exw xrovo av mporeis metetreje to
keimevo se lativikous xaraktnres wste va to diabasouv ki osoi de mporouv
alliws.
> Anti allhs apanthshs PROKALW kathe endiaferomeno na diabasei h na a-
> kousei (se real audio) thn omilia tou arxiepiskopou sto synedrio pou
> SYNDIORGANWSE o stoxos me th MHTROPOLH IERISSOU kai na diapistwsei o
> idios poso proodeytikh(opws lew egw) h fasistikh (opws leei o abdul)
> einai.( www.stoxos.com)
Ta egkwmia parempiptovtws stov Kajaln dev ntav movo gia tn diorgavwsn tou
syvedriou alla kai gia tn gevikotern stasn tou kai tis 9eseis tou... Ayta
gia va mn vomizei o Feidias pws to koutoxorto to xwveyoume oloi e3isou.
Metaferw biastika kai sygvwmn gia tyxov la9n:
"0elw apo tn 9esn aytn va sygxarw gia alln mia fora tov kyrio Kajaln,
ekdotn kai diey9yvtn tns gvwstns efnmeridas Stoxos twv A9nvwv, pou eivai
gvwstos ellnvokevtrikos kai ellnvojyxos kai taytoxrova Xristokevtrikos kai
Or9odo3os. Exoume avagkn apo tetoious av9rwpous epitelous. Av9rwpous oi
opoioi 9a balouv stnv prwtn moira ta 9rnskeytika kai ta e9vika mas idewdn,
kai tous problnmatismous ekeivous oi opoioi pavtote ypnr3av oi baseis gia
tnv ousiastikn epibiwsn aytou tou topou kai aytou tou laou."
De mpaivw stov kopo va ypogrammisw tipota apo to parapavw, milaei movo
tou. Av kaveis dev to katalabaivei, de ftaiei to keimevo, ta myala pou
koubalaei movo. :->
> Oson afora to ti einai fasistiko ,na se parapempsw sto gegonos oti
> kata th diarkeia ths xountas sthn ellada,opoios akouge theodorakh=kom-
> mounisths.Omoia gia esena twra opoios paei se synedrio pou einai
> syndiorganwths o stoxos einai fasistas.H parapanw logikh einai safws
> fasistikh logikh.(ektos an oi syntagmatarxes pou thn efarmosan
> mexri to 74 den htan fasistes :)
Sto eipe kapoios pws sta paixvidia tns logikns eisai Sakns kai to pnres
pavw sou; ;->
a) To va akouei kapoios mousikn evos kommouvistn syv9etn eivai avtistoixo
me to va akouei kapoios mousikn evos fasista syv9etn.
b) To va egkwmiazei kapoios tn stasn kai tis idees evos kommouvistn eivai
avtistoixo me to va egkwmiazei tn stasn kai tis idees evos fasista.
Kai pou'sai akoma perimevw tnv emperistatwmevn sou avalysn gia to giati n
logikn mou dev eivai aplws fasistikn alla vazistikn!!! ;-> Movo bres kati
pio e3ypvo va peis apo logika almata sav ta parapavw...
> Oson afora tous graikylous ti se enoxlei?Einai mia apopsh (me thn
> opoia apolyta symfwnw) oti an afhsei o ellhnas thn orthodoksia
> tote tha ginei amerikanaki,enas giaphs (h monterna ekfrash tou
> graikylou).
Koita va deis pou dev n3era pws oi ellnves ka9olikoi pou 3erw eivai
amerikavakia... Kai pou'sai, to graikylos=giapns/amerikavaki pou to
syvavtnses; Edwse epe3ngnseis o "makariwtatos"; O Mpampiviwtns ti exei va
pei ep' aytou re Botsn; :-)
> Alla apagoreyetai na leei thn apopsh tou ayth o Arxiepiskopos ths
> Elladas? Giati kapoioi pesane epanw toy?
Isws dev exeis syveidntopoinsei pws parea me tnv eley9eria tns ekfrasns
(tnv opoia tnv exei opws 9a eprepe va tnv exei kai o ka9e Ellnvas politns
alla dystyxws yparxouv kai oi e3aireseis otav mas ballovtai ta e9vika mas
symferovta kai grafoume to Syvtagma sta palia mas ypodnmata) yparxei kai n
eley9eria tns krisns. Koivws as leei o,ti tou katebei o Xristodoulos alla
ayto de snmaivei pws de mporei kaveis va tov kritikarei. Osoi profavws
eipav pws dev exei *dikaiwma* va leei o,ti leei exouv paromoies vootropies
me to filaraki tou Xristodoulou tov Kajaln. Oi ypoloipoi omws (kai ypnr3av
polloi) pou aplws ekrivav ta logia tou kala kavave. Opws kai stov kafeve n
malakeia syvodeyetai apo roxalo. :-)
> H pragmatikh aitia einai oti
> tous TROMOKRATHSE h eyreia aphxhsh pou exei sto lao o logos tou.
> Etsi exoun arxisei ton(ypoulo) polemo fthoras tou.
Oute gia ta X-Files va egrafes sevaria... :-) To ousiastiko erwtnma eivai
av eivai dnmofilns giati o laos 3erei ti fasistiko gourouvi eivai kai gi'
ayto tou aresei (opote Dnmntrakn Botsn mou, mn stevaxwriesai ka9olou
mavar' mou, 9a 3aval9ei n mera pou 9a mas balete stov gyjo gia to kalo
mas kai 9a to exoume zntnsei oi idioi) 'n giati o laos dev exei parei
prefa akoma gia to ti symbaivei opote kalo eivai va evnmerw9ei. :-) Stnv
periorismevn mou ws ta twra empeiria exw diapistwsei to deytero, dnladn me
to pou tous eipa ta peri Kajaln klp. oi ev9ousiasmevoi Xristodoulikoi
exasav olo tous tov ev9ousiasmo... :-) Eivai giati epesa se "fwlea
xristiavwv kommouvistwv" mnpws; :-)
> Dionyshs Papadopoulos
>
> Y.G. To onoma "abdul the butcher " phgazei apo tis dhmokratikes
> sou kataboles?To "Xasaph ths lywn " mou fernei sto nou...
Kai to diko sou to "Gewrgios Papadopoulos" alla elega va mnv to avaferw...
:-)
Abdul
PS1> Feidia, lign prospa9eia akoma kai 9a bgeis apo ta mayra katastixa twv
ypoloipwv fasistwv kai 9a exeis va avnsyxeis movo gia tov PapaRa... :-)
PS2> Kai pou'sai Feidia, ama dw tov Xristodoulo va symmetexei stis
avtiratsistikes diadnlwseis (parea me tous "graikylous" vte :-), va
bon9aei kaveva mousoulmavo metavastn klp. 9a peistw pws eivai dixasmevn
proswpikotnta pou apo tn mia epikrotei tis "ellnvojyxes" idees tou Kajaln
kai apo tnv alln eivai kata tou ratsismou. Ws ta tote 9a syvexisw va 9ewrw
pws eivai aplws fidi kolobo. :-)
PS3> Botsn kala va'sai palnkari mou, kai gia ta ma9nmata peri fasismou de
xreiazomai tov Mpampiviwtn, exw esas tous opadous tns "Epavastasews" edw
stn lista... :-) Kai pou'sai, kai oi syvtagmatarxes egkaiviazav kai
vosokomeia kai bazav kai reyma, ayto dev tous ekave oute ligotero fasistes
oute ligotero kretivous. :-)
Dionyshs Papadopoulos
Lida Anestidou wrote:
>
> Dionyshs Papadopoulos wrote:
>
> >
> > Sygkrinw NOOTROPIES .
>
> bre anohte, ti nootropies na sugkrineis otan h 8esh sou einai e3 arxhs
> lan8asmenh?
Eksakoloutheis tous xarakthrismous dokimazontas thn ypomonh mou
Dhladh mono me brisimo katalabaineis?Kytta mh sokaristeis pali
opws me to floca kai arxiseis ta:"to xontrynes anepanorthwta" kai
ase "na mhn parektrapw telika"
> nootropies 8a sugkrineis otan h koinwnikh, politikh kai oikonomikh domh
> stis opoies anaferontai einai paremfereis h omoies.
> ti nohma exei na sygkrineis th nootropia tou laou en mesw stratiwtikou
> ka8estwtos, opou ta basika an8rwpina dikaiwmata exoun fugei klwtshdon,
> kai en mesw dhmokratias, opou dikaioutai o ka8eis na kamei polla, kai na
> pei akoma perissoetra?
> k a n e n a den exei.
> einai sa na les 8a sugkrinw th morfwsh enos laou pou peina me enan pou
> exei na faei. einai asxeth h morfwsh th stigmh pou to epipedo epibiwshs
> einai toso drastika diaforetiko.
Ma ti morfwsh laou klp mou les?Epikoinwneis?Egw sou milaw gia
fasistikes
nootropies.Des pali ti grafw na to katalabeis:
Oson afora to ti einai fasistiko ,na se parapempsw sto gegonos oti
kata th diarkeia ths xountas sthn ellada,opoios akouge theodorakh=kom-
mounisths=sto pyr to ekswtero.Omoia gia esena twra opoios paei se
synedrio pou einai syndiorganwths o stoxos einai fasistas= sto pyr
to ekswtero.Kai stis dyo periptwseis den eksetazeis ta pisteyw tou
allou alla kollas tampelles.H parapanw logikh einai safws fasistikh
logikh.(ektos an oi syntagmatarxes pou thn efarmosan mexri to 74 den
htan fasistes :) "
Sto parapanw fainetai megalh syggeneia metaksy xasaph kai
syntagmatarxwn.Epi ths ousias exeis na peis tipote lhda?
An einai na milame peri koyltouras sto sygxrono kosmo kai anthrwpinwn
dikaiwmatwn,peinas kai mpla mpla mpla ,na katebasw egw ton
papanoytso,esy
ton chomski kai na arxisoume na leme.
Se rwtaw ksana.Exeis tipote epi ths ousias tou thematos pou syzhtame
na peis?
Egw nomiza oti apo to 74 mexri shmera oii fasistikes nootropies
apo kybernwntes kai lao exoun ekleipsei.Wstoso blepw ta gegonota
na me diapseydoun.
Dionyshs
Nikos Sakellaridis
rwthsa
> > kai pia einai h 8esh ths ekklhsias sto 8ema??
> > (emperistatwmena parakalw)
Euxaristw gia th gnwmh sou
alla h8ela refs.sthn gnwmh ths ekklhsias
Nikos
> Kytta ,den eimai eidikos.Tha sou pw oso pio emperistatwmena mporw
> (apo ayta pou exw akousei apo polles egkyres ekklhsiastikes phges)
> H ekklhsia de dexetai th thanatikh katadikh epeidh
> 1) mono o idios o theos pou dinei th zwh mporei na thn pairnei.
> (gia ton idio logo katadikazei kai thn aytoktonia)
> 2)Mono o idios o theos kserei thn alhtheia ontas o ypertatos
> kriths.Etsi den apokleietai to endexomeno dikastikhs planhs
> p.x. ti ginetai an mia apofash gia thanatikh katadikh apodeixthei
> ek' twn ysterwn lanthasmenh?Poios fernei ton pethameno pisw?
> Yparxoun kapoies periptwseis apo xwres opou efarmozetai h
> thanatikh katadikh opou afou exei ginei h ektelesh brisketai o
> kathgoroumenos athwos :)
>
> 3) O anthrwpos prepei na exei mexri kai thn teleytaia stigmh ths
> zwhs tou thn eykairia na metanohsei gia tis prakseis tou.An tou
> afairesoume th zwh prowra ISWS na tou steroume to dikaiwma na
> metanohsei gia tis prakseis tou kai na kerdisei ton paradeiso
> Kai mhn pei kaneis :"de metanohse tosa xronia,twra tha
> metanohsei?" giati den kseroume gia ton kathena ti prokeitai
> na tou symbei .p.x. an o lhsths den systayrwnotan me ton Xristo
> alla stayrwnotan pio pera den eprokeito(mallon) na sygxwrhthei kai na
> paei ston paradeiso
>
> Ola ta parapanw isxyoun akomh kai gia tous xeiroterous egklhmaties
> Allwste o Xristos katadikase thn amartia(=praksh) kai oxi ta
> proswpa.Etsi akomh kai o ypertatos egklhmatias mporei an metanohsei
> na paei ston paradeiso.
> Synepws oi xeiroteroi egklhmaties as meinoun thn ypoloiph zwh tous
> fylakh.Omws h thanatwsh tous einai anepitrepth.
>
> Ta parapanw einai se genikes grammes h didaskalia ths ekklhsias
> Gia perisoteres leptomereies mallon prepei na rwthseis kanena
> theologo.
>
> Filika
> Dionyshs
Lida Anestidou
Dionyshs Papadopoulos wrote:
>
> Eksakoloutheis tous xarakthrismous dokimazontas thn ypomonh mou
> Dhladh mono me brisimo katalabaineis?Kytta mh sokaristeis pali
> opws me to floca kai arxiseis ta:"to xontrynes anepanorthwta" kai
> ase "na mhn parektrapw telika"
h8ela na h3era:oloi osoi apeileite me 'brisimo" giati panta ennoeite
ekfraseis tou styl: gmiesai, phdiesai, kariolh kai loipa pou 8a
sokaroun?
dhladh, mou to les ws proeidopoihsh giati den exeis allo tropo na peis
kati gia na akousteis?
ti epa8es? se enoxlhse to "anohtos kai kopanos" pou se eipa?
tolmas na mou para8eseis tis anohsies sou parakatw 8ewrwntas pws den
antilambanomai ti les?
eisai sobaros?
den antilambanesai pws den uparxei 8ema sugkrishs mias krishs pou
ginetai mesa se diktatoria kai mesa se dhmokratia?
anohto plasma, sou para8esa to paradeigma mpas kai katafereis na
grapwseis tis akres aytou pou lew. esu, omws, to xaba sou.
auto pou den e3etazeis, kamari mou, einai oti mesa sth xounta oloi osoi
den aspasthkan energa thn ideologia ths ekapelw8hkan ws kommounistes.
shmera, o ka8eis einai eleu8eros na akolou8ei to stoxo kai ton pleurh
kai thn epen kai epa3ia, sumfwna me thn ideologia tou, xarakthrizetai ws
fasistas. einai ola anoikta kai fanera. ti na sugkrineis bre xalba?
Lhda
Abdullah the Butcher
"O Dionyshs Papadopoulos egraje:"
[snip]
> > To afnsa to keimevo pio pavw gia va to *empedwseis* priv syvexiseis va
> > milas gia "oikodomnmata"... Egw *rwtnsa* kati ki esy mou eipes pws "dev
> > exei snmasia" opote egw e3ngnsa giati exei snmasia. Ta *oikodomnmata* ta
> > afnvw stov Xristodoulo gia *otav* ta kavei... Mia kai dnlwveis adiabastos
> > va rwtnsw tous loipous Xristo-doulous tns listas (Feidias, Botsns,
> > Mpompolos) mpas kai mporouv va mou lysouv tnv aporia...
>
> Eimai ypoxrewmenos egw na kserw ti eisithrio ebgalle o xristodoulos?
> Esy pou ton kathgoreis oti den paei me ton laountziko klp na mas
> peis pou emathes oti den phge me aplo eisithrio.
Ma gia ovoma tou 0eou! Basikn katavonsn keimevou 0/100; Egw se *rwtnsa*av*
ki esy mou les pws katngorw... Eav ovtws pnge prwtn 9esn eyxaristws va tov
katngornsw :-), alliws ki egw va tov epikrotnsw, kaveva problnma. Alla
epavalambavw aplws rwtnsa. To afnvw kai pio pavw mpas kai aytn tn fora
katalabeis kai eilikriva av epimeveis as to parei to paliampelo, de 9a
xasw ki alla KB mataiopovovtas. Kai bebaia ypoxrewmevos va 3ereis dev
eisai, gi' ayto kai opws blepeis rwtaw kai tous allous opadous... :-)
[snip]
> > Ta egkwmia parempiptovtws stov Kajaln dev ntav movo gia tn diorgavwsn tou
> > syvedriou alla kai gia tn gevikotern stasn tou kai tis 9eseis tou... Ayta
> > gia va mn vomizei o Feidias pws to koutoxorto to xwveyoume oloi e3isou.
> > Metaferw biastika kai sygvwmn gia tyxov la9n:
> >
> > "0elw apo tn 9esn aytn va sygxarw gia alln mia fora tov kyrio Kajaln,
> > ekdotn kai diey9yvtn tns gvwstns efnmeridas Stoxos twv A9nvwv, pou eivai
> > gvwstos ellnvokevtrikos kai ellnvojyxos kai taytoxrova Xristokevtrikos kai
> > Or9odo3os. Exoume avagkn apo tetoious av9rwpous epitelous. Av9rwpous oi
> > opoioi 9a balouv stnv prwtn moira ta 9rnskeytika kai ta e9vika mas idewdn,
> > kai tous problnmatismous ekeivous oi opoioi pavtote ypnr3av oi baseis gia
> > tnv ousiastikn epibiwsn aytou tou topou kai aytou tou laou."
> >
> > De mpaivw stov kopo va ypogrammisw tipota apo to parapavw, milaei movo
> > tou. Av kaveis dev to katalabaivei, de ftaiei to keimevo, ta myala pou
> > koubalaei movo. :->
>
> Ma kala den blepeis?Epikrotei to endiaferon gia ellada kai
> xristianismo.Epishs einai h prwth omilia h synenteyksh pou blepeis?
Wraia re megale, kai av dnladn epikrotouse tov Gewrgio Papadopoulo gia to
evdiaferov tou gia tnv Ellada kai tov Xristiavismo esy de 9a ebgazes
kaveva symperasma... "Exoume avagkn apo tetoious av9rwpous epitelous."
Tov exw dei kai stnv tnleorasn kai tnv ar9rografia tou sto Bnma exw
diabasei, eyxaristw de 9a parw allo. :-)
> Apo tis (kyriolektika) dekades dhmosies dhlwseis,emfaniseis,
> synenteykseis klp esy to mono pou exeis na tou katalogiseis einai
> oti eipe kala logia gia ton oikodespoth se ena synedrio?Ayto
> einai to egklhma tou?An ta epixeirhmata sou eksantlountai se
> ayto, tote mporw na ypothesw oti symfwneis me tis "epi ths ousias"
> theseis tou arxiepiskopou ?
Egw tou katalogizw *kai* to oti pnge se syvedrio pou orgavw9nke *kai* apo
tov Stoxo, poso mallov to oti oxi aplws eipe kala logia gia tov
"oikodespotn" tou alla tov ekave *paradeigma*pros*mimnsn*. To oti eseva de
se evoxlei kati tetoio alla taytoxrova prospa9eis me lektikous
akrobatismous va meiwseis tn snmasia tou de me polyekplnssei. :-)
[snip]
> > Sto eipe kapoios pws sta paixvidia tns logikns eisai Sakns kai to pnres
> > pavw sou; ;->
> >
> > a) To va akouei kapoios mousikn evos kommouvistn syv9etn eivai avtistoixo
> > me to va akouei kapoios mousikn evos fasista syv9etn.
> > b) To va egkwmiazei kapoios tn stasn kai tis idees evos kommouvistn eivai
> > avtistoixo me to va egkwmiazei tn stasn kai tis idees evos fasista.
>
> Mpa ,sta paixnidia logikhs de sou bgainei kaneis mprosta.
> Kommounisths einai o theodwrakhs?Tote kai o mhtsotakhs koumounisths
> einai?(na sou ypenthymisw oti to 90 o theodwrakhs htan boyleyths ths
> ND?)
Pngaive rwta tov 0eodwrakn av akoma kai tote de dnlwve kommouvistns. Edw
to exei dnlwsei se toses syvevtey3eis - 'n mnpws diabazeis movo aytes tou
Xristodoulou; :-) O idios dev epaje va 9ewrei eaytov kommouvistn, alloi
epajav va tov 9ewrouv kai tov ekavav prodwtn. Ase pou epipleov gia tnv
epoxn tns diktatorias sta sigoura kai *dnlwve* kai *9ewreito* kai apo tous
omoideates tou ws kommouvistns.
> Ayto pou eipa (kai kaneis pws den katalabaineis) einai oti
> xarakthrizeis fasista enan anthrwpo pou phge se ena synedrio kai
> milhse gia tous NEOMARTYRES ths ekklhsias mono kai mono epeidh
> o enas apo tous oikodespotes einai kata th gnwmh sou fasistas
> (entaksei eipe kai dyo filofronhseis ston oikodespoth)
To keimevo eivai pio pavw, to diabazei kaveis kai blepei ti
"filofrovnseis" eivai aytes... :-) A, kai pou'sai, tn gvwmn mou gia tov
Kajaln tnv eipame, tn dikia sou perimevw giati de 3erw ti va ypo9esw apo
to "kata tn gvwmn sou fasistas" pio pavw: Eivai kai kata tn gvwmn sou;
Kata tn gvwmn tou Xristodoulou (pou ka9olou dev exei prospa9nsei va
apostasiopoin9ei parempiptovtws oute kai gia ta matia tou kosmou);
> Paromoia oi xountikoi xarakthrizan kommounistes osous akoygan
> theodwrakh h "eixan dosolhpsies" me ""kommounistes"" klp
Dnladn re Papadopoule otav kapoios egkwmiazei tn stasn evos fasista se
9emata safestata politika mporei kai va mnv eivai fasistas... Koita va
deis ti ma9aivw sta geramata mou...
> To koino shmeio kai twn dyo logikwn einai oti xarakthrizoume
> atoma me bash to gegonos xwris na eksetasoume tis idees tous
> kai kollame tampeles stelnontas tous "egklhmaties" sto pyr
> to ekswtero. :)
Se parakalw, ekei dikaiwma va mas steilei emas tous allo9rnskous exei movo
o Makariwtatos... :-)
> > Kai pou'sai akoma perimevw tnv emperistatwmevn sou avalysn gia to giati n
> > logikn mou dev eivai aplws fasistikn alla vazistikn!!! ;-> Movo bres kati
> > pio e3ypvo va peis apo logika almata sav ta parapavw...
>
> Gia mena nazismos einai o yperthetikos bathmos tou fasismou.An
Sa va leme apo ta 2 kila kai meta eivai Nazi, pio liga aplos fasistas. ;-)
Gia ri3e mas mia plnrn avalysn. :-)
> se peirazei to nazistikh symperifora to pernw pisw kai soy
> afhnw mono to fasistikh symperifora(efoson ayto se kanei na
> aisthanesai kalytera)
Ti va sou pw re paidi mou, perimeve va trabn3w ta kazavaki twra pou
avakoufistnka. :->
[snip]
> Gia to ti einai giaphs kyttakse eksw apo to parathyro sou.
Re mpas kai mperdejes tnv Providence gia tn Wall Street;
> Aytoi pou theloun na xwrisoun ton ellhna apo thn orthodoksia
> mporoun kallista na xarakthristoun graikyloi giati tha kanoun ton
> ellhniko san ta moutra tous(exoun hdh arxisei th douleia tous pros
> thn kateythynsh ayth)
Tov ellnviko;;;; Poiov "ellnviko"; Tov kafe; :-) Mn mou sygxizesai poly
kai mas pa9eis tipota kai meta ti 9a kavoume xwris eseva; Hsouv
telos pavtwv mia kapoia lysn... :-) Pavtws eilikriva sou systnvw ta
X-Files the Movie, ekei va deis kai douleia kai katey9yvsn kai syvomwsia
me tn sesoula. :-)
[snip]
> O Xristodoulos einai dhmofilhs giati
> 1)ayta pou leei aggizoun to lao
Pou akribws; :-)
> 2)anagnwrizoun thn eilikrineia twn logwn tou mesa apo th thiteia tou
> sth mhtropolh bolou(dhmhtriados) kai ta prwta deigmata grafhs apo th
> nea tou thesh.
Dnladn ta deigmata grafns sto syvedrio tou Stoxou dev metrouv giati ntav
priv givei arxipapas;
> 3) den exei kommatistei(opws epimonws prospathoun kapoioi na tou
> prosapsoun)
Pws va kommatistei o amoiros otav oi fasistes eivai diaskorpismevoi se
perissotera tou evos kommata...
> > > Y.G. To onoma "abdul the butcher " phgazei apo tis dhmokratikes
> > > sou kataboles?To "Xasaph ths lywn " mou fernei sto nou...
> >
> > Kai to diko sou to "Gewrgios Papadopoulos" alla elega va mnv to avaferw...
> > :-)
>
> H periptwsh sou einai POLY baria.To dionyshs to blepeis giwrgos :)
Giati esy tn Lywv pou tnv eides; Gia syveirmous milame.
> Epeita ksexnas oti to diko mou onoma einai to pragmatiko kai den to
> dialeksa egw(oute fysika ntrepomai giayto).
Ayto eleipe va vtrepovtai tosoi polloi Papadopouloi...
> To problhma einai me esena,pou oi DHMOKRATIKES sou eyaisthisies
> se odhghsan na epilekseis pseydwnymo "XASAPHS ths Lywn" (ep syggnwmh
> xasaphs abdul ithela na pw)
> Meta kanw lathos na milaw gia nazistikes symperifores?
O,ti peis agori mou, o,ti peis... Egw to diaskedazw afavtasta. :-)
[snip]
> > PS2> Kai pou'sai Feidia, ama dw tov Xristodoulo va symmetexei stis
> > avtiratsistikes diadnlwseis (parea me tous "graikylous" vte :-), va
> > bon9aei kaveva mousoulmavo metavastn klp. 9a peistw pws eivai dixasmevn
> > proswpikotnta pou apo tn mia epikrotei tis "ellnvojyxes" idees tou Kajaln
> > kai apo tnv alln eivai kata tou ratsismou. Ws ta tote 9a syvexisw va 9ewrw
> > pws eivai aplws fidi kolobo. :-)
>
> Gia ton an bohthaei metanastes h oxi phgaine mia bolta pros to bolo na
> deis tis enories kai ta geymata pou prosferontai.An pali sou peftei
> makrya o bolos phgaine mexri peiraia meria na deis pou gyrw sta 1000
> atoma trwne tzampa kathe mera se eidikh aithousa ths mhtropolhs
> peiraiws.Na shmeiwthei oti gia na paei na faei o opoiosdhpote
> oute ton rwtane tipote oute leei tipote.Apla phgainei kai trwei.
> Loipon se plhroforw oti phgainoun kai anergoi ellhnes kai
> metanastes klp
> Alla fysika ayta den ta anaferoun ta dhmokratika entypa sta
> opoia entryfeis :)
Mia kai exw oikogeveiakes sxeseis me to vomo Magvnsias 9a mou epitrejeis
va exw mia pio idia apojn gia ta parapavw... Oso gia ta evtypa sta opoia
evtryfw esy pou ta 3ereis; Kata diaolikn symptwsn eva apo ayta to
evtryfei kai o Feidias kai eivai kai Xristo-douliko... :-)
> Alhtheia to diko sou to leksiko sth leksh graikylos antistoixei
> to antiratsisths?
Oxi, oute bebaia kai to giapns/amerikavaki. :-) Alla symbaivei polloi e3'
aytwv twv "graikylwv" va pngaivouv stis avtiratsistikes ekdnlwseis avt'
aytwv tou Stoxou. :-) Kai episns symbaivei oi despotades *syvn9ws* va mnv
tous kavouv parea - all' avt' aytou va to rixvouv stis misallodo3ies.
E3aireseis yparxouv bebaia pavta alla o dikos sas de figourarei mexri
stigmns. :-)
> > PS3> Botsn kala va'sai palnkari mou, kai gia ta ma9nmata peri fasismou de
> > xreiazomai tov Mpampiviwtn, exw esas tous opadous tns "Epavastasews" edw
> > stn lista... :-) Kai pou'sai, kai oi syvtagmatarxes egkaiviazav kai
> > vosokomeia kai bazav kai reyma, ayto dev tous ekave oute ligotero fasistes
> > oute ligotero kretivous. :-)
>
> Ase megale.To poios einai ths epanastasews to blepoume.Dystyxws
> gia sena omws o stalin pethane.Oute gkoulag oute ta aousvic gyrizoun
> pisw.
Ki elega pote 9a to peta3ei, pote 9a to peta3ei... Kai pou 3ereis re
orgio tou paralogou pws exw kammia idiaitern kaoura gia tov Stalin, 'n tov
opoiodnpote kommouvistn, mar3istn/levivistn/maoistn/trotskistn 'n allo se
-istn;
Abdul
PS> Ayrio to brady n syvexeia to vwritero giati kaln n diaskedasn alla
exoume kai douleies kai 9a mas tis kavei o Xristodoulos... :-)
Christos Papadas
Nai re paidi mou, tromero auto. Skeyou ta orfava
pou 0a swzame sto Soudav av ta3ideue
touristikn o despotas.... Afou leve va to efarmosouv
kai oi timioi politikoi mas. Ta3idi kai orfavotrofeio!!
Telika xasapn, se barese kai seva....
Xrnstaras o Amalnkitns
George Bobolos
Gia va lu8ouv kapoies pare3ngnseis, apla 8a n8ela va pw oti treis
megalo-paragovtes (as mn leme ovomata kai tous balete sto mauro to
katastixo pou bon8ouv tov kako tov Arxiepiskopo), prosferav ta idiwtika
tous aeroplava gia tis metakivnseis tou. Autos arvn8nke kai xrnsimopoiei to
aeroplavo tns grammns. Ta3ideuei prwtn 8esn sta ta3idia tou sto e3wteriko
(av, telos pavtwv, ki' auto sas evdiaferei), evw, av dev to 3erete, stis
ptnseis eswterikou dev uparxei prwtn n' touristikn 8esn. Gia opoiadnpote
alln plnroforia, mporeite va apeu8uveste stnv Olumpiakn !!! :-)
Ekeivo omws pou, egw toulaxistov, dev katalabaivw, eivai giati exete oloi
fagw8ei me tov Xristodoulo. Ki' o Serafeim de3ios (de3iotatos malista)
ntav, dev 8umamai omws kavevav va tov eixe katngornsei gia ta politika tou
pisteuw. Ki' o Serafeim eixe kavei, kata kairous, dnlwseis, dev 8umamai
omws va eixe avtidrasei kaveis. Edw eixe orkisei tnv "kubervnsn" Iwavvidn
kai kaveis dev eipe koubevta, oute tote, oute argotera.
Ti eivai, loipov, auto, pou kavei tov Xristodoulo, avtipa8n se kapoio kosmo
(poiov kosmo, dnladn, se elaxistous, av laboume up' oyiv ta gallops pou tov
fervouv prwto se dnmotikotnta) ??? AUTO ARKIBWS !!! To gegovos, dnladn, oti
meta apo POLLA xrovia, evas av8rwpos tns ekklnsias 8ewreitai ws o pleov
dnmofilns Ellnvas politns. Kai tautoxrova, to gegovos oti autos o av8rwpos
tns ekklnsias, fervei stnv epifaveia 8emata ta opoia, evtexvws, briskovtav
mexri twra stov pato. Milnse o Xristodoulos gia xameves patrides prox8es
stnv Ikaria kai xeirokrtouse me pa8os OLOS o kosmos. E, av auto eseva Abdul
mou se peirazei, ti 8es va kavoume twra, ESU mn xeirokrotas ama dev 8eleis
... Eixe paei tis proalles sta sxoleia kai, afou suzntnse me ta paidia,
tous xarise apo mia Agia Grafn. Toso kako ntav ki' auto ??? E, opoios dev
tnv n8ele, as tnv petage meta sta skoupidia. Ki' alla polla .....
Kai gia va teleiwvw. H ellnvikn koivwvia, magkes, kourasmevn tosa xrovia
ap' tous diaforous "swtnres", faivetai pws 3avagurvaei kovta stnv ekklnsia.
Auto mporei va peirazei merikous, faivetai omws pws aresei stous
perissoterous kai tous avakoufizei. Ki' o Xristodoulos, eite merikoi tov
8ewrouv fasista, eite xouvtiko, eite Pava8nva.i.ko, eite aderfn (giati
akoustnke ki' auto -eivai n gvwstn taktikn, peta, peta laspn, olo kai kati
8a meivei), suvarpazei autn tnv dedomevn wra tov kosmo. S' opoiov aresei
......
giwrgos
Dionyshs Papadopoulos
Abdullah the Butcher wrote:
>
> "O Dionyshs Papadopoulos egraje:"
>
> [snip]
> > > To afnsa to keimevo pio pavw gia va to *empedwseis* priv syvexiseis va
> > > milas gia "oikodomnmata"... Egw *rwtnsa* kati ki esy mou eipes pws "dev
> > > exei snmasia" opote egw e3ngnsa giati exei snmasia. Ta *oikodomnmata* ta
> > > afnvw stov Xristodoulo gia *otav* ta kavei... Mia kai dnlwveis adiabastos
> > > va rwtnsw tous loipous Xristo-doulous tns listas (Feidias, Botsns,
> > > Mpompolos) mpas kai mporouv va mou lysouv tnv aporia...
> >
> > Eimai ypoxrewmenos egw na kserw ti eisithrio ebgalle o xristodoulos?
> > Esy pou ton kathgoreis oti den paei me ton laountziko klp na mas
> > peis pou emathes oti den phge me aplo eisithrio.
>
> Ma gia ovoma tou 0eou! Basikn katavonsn keimevou 0/100; Egw se *rwtnsa*av*
> ki esy mou les pws katngorw... Eav ovtws pnge prwtn 9esn eyxaristws va tov
> katngornsw :-), alliws ki egw va tov epikrotnsw, kaveva problnma. Alla
> epavalambavw aplws rwtnsa. To afnvw kai pio pavw mpas kai aytn tn fora
> katalabeis kai eilikriva av epimeveis as to parei to paliampelo, de 9a
> xasw ki alla KB mataiopovovtas. Kai bebaia ypoxrewmevos va 3ereis dev
> eisai, gi' ayto kai opws blepeis rwtaw kai tous allous opadous... :-)
Afou den ksereis me ti thesh phge ti les?Otan sou lene oti kapoios
ekane ena kalo, anti na epikrothseis to kalo pou ekane arxizeis na
rwtas ti ALLA kala ekane?An malista o allos den kserei na sou pei,
arxizeis na les "an den exei kanei epipleon to tade kalo h to deina
kalo einai axrhstos kai alhths kai aneprokopos klp" ?
Perimene gia na katalabw.Pote ekane praksipophma o kapsalhs?
Epeita sou ksanalaew kai an thes anoikse ta matia sou (kai to myalo
sou) na to deis.Ayta pou leei einai filofronhseis kai me ayta
epikrotountai MONO h probolh thrhskeytikwn kai ethnikwn thematwn
(allwste se aytes tis dyo kathgories htan kai to thema tou
synedriou:oi neomartyres ths ekklhsias= martyres ths pistews
kai ths patridas kata thn toyrkokratia).Den ekfrazei apopsh gia kammia
allh ptyxh ths drasthriothtas tou kapsalh.Pouthena de leei oti o
kapsalhs einai ypodeigma zwhs.
To shmantiko einai allo omws kai arneisai na apanthseis.Epi ths
ousias aytwn pou leei o Xristodoulos se ayth h opoiadhpote
allh apo tis dekades synenteykseis exeis kapoia antirrhsh(afhnontas
tous proswpikous xarakthrismous sthn akrh kai epikentronwmenos mono
sta epixeirhmata) ?
Nai h Oxi?
>
> Pngaive rwta tov 0eodwrakn av akoma kai tote de dnlwve kommouvistns. Edw
> to exei dnlwsei se toses syvevtey3eis - 'n mnpws diabazeis movo aytes tou
> Xristodoulou; :-) O idios dev epaje va 9ewrei eaytov kommouvistn, alloi
> epajav va tov 9ewrouv kai tov ekavav prodwtn. Ase pou epipleov gia tnv
> epoxn tns diktatorias sta sigoura kai *dnlwve* kai *9ewreito* kai apo tous
> omoideates tou ws kommouvistns.
Isws na dhlwnei kommounisths.Ayto omws den epiferei kammia allagh
sto skeptiko pou sou aneptyksa(gia na mh sou pw oti epibarynei th
dikh sou thesh mia kai o men theodorakhs dhlwnei kommounisths enw
o kapsalhs apo oso kserw de dhlwnei fasistas :)H mhpws dhlwnei?Esy
san eidikos kapsalologos diafwtise mas.
> > Ayto pou eipa (kai kaneis pws den katalabaineis) einai oti
> > xarakthrizeis fasista enan anthrwpo pou phge se ena synedrio kai
> > milhse gia tous NEOMARTYRES ths ekklhsias mono kai mono epeidh
> > o enas apo tous oikodespotes einai kata th gnwmh sou fasistas
> > (entaksei eipe kai dyo filofronhseis ston oikodespoth)
>
> To keimevo eivai pio pavw, to diabazei kaveis kai blepei ti
> "filofrovnseis" eivai aytes... :-) A, kai pou'sai, tn gvwmn mou gia tov
> Kajaln tnv eipame, tn dikia sou perimevw giati de 3erw ti va ypo9esw apo
> to "kata tn gvwmn sou fasistas" pio pavw: Eivai kai kata tn gvwmn sou;
> Kata tn gvwmn tou Xristodoulou (pou ka9olou dev exei prospa9nsei va
> apostasiopoin9ei parempiptovtws oute kai gia ta matia tou kosmou);
Den ton kserw arketa kala ton kapsalh kai to stoxo gia na ekfrassw
gnwmh.An eksefrase ratsistikes antilhpseis tis katadikazw.An milaei
apla gia orthodoksia kai patrida den blepw kati to kako.Ta mona
pou kserw gia ton kapsalh kai to stoxo einai kapoia stoixeia pou
exw dei sto www.stoxos.com
> > Paromoia oi xountikoi xarakthrizan kommounistes osous akoygan
> > theodwrakh h "eixan dosolhpsies" me ""kommounistes"" klp
>
> Dnladn re Papadopoule otav kapoios egkwmiazei tn stasn evos fasista se
> 9emata safestata politika mporei kai va mnv eivai fasistas... Koita va
> deis ti ma9aivw sta geramata mou...
Des pali parapanw.Giati les ta idia kai ta idia?Eipame.
a)einai filofronhseis pros ton oikodespoth
b)oi filofronhseis aytes apeythynontai mono se orismenes ptyxes
ths drasthriothtas tou oikodespoth(probolh ellhnismou kai
orthodoksias).
An esy les oti h drasthriothta tou kapsalh exei kai alles ptyxes
ektos twn parapanw aytes den "egkwmiasthkan" apo to xristodoulo.
Sygkekrimena an ennoeis to ratsismo ,sou eipa kai egw kai o
feidias sygkekrimena paradeigmata(pou mporeis na epalitheyseis)
antiratsistikwn logwn kai ergwn tou Xristodoulou).
Thes kai alla?
Des thn ierapostolh pou kanei h ekklhsia se afrikh,india,kina
korea kai zhlandia.p.x. sthn afrikh mexri thn teleytaia fora
pou kyttaksa zousan mayroi ( :) ).Loipon se angola,zambia,zair
mozambikh,namimbia....(sxedon se oles tis afrikanikes xwres)
yparxoun ierapostoloi apestalmenoi ths ekklhsias ths ellados
Ekei ektos apo to na diakyrhttoun to logo tou Xristou kanoun
kai polla erga ypodomhs(panta me lefta ths ekklhsias ths elladas)
p.x. gewtrhseis gia na pinoun katharo nero anti gia lasponera
iatrikous stathmous klp.H boitheia malista den periorizetai
mono stous xristianous alla se OLOUS tous ithageneis.Ama eixes
dei ektenes reportaz apo thn prosfath episkepsh Stefanopoulou
stis indies tha eixes parakolouthisei thn ekplhksh tou apo to
ergo ths ierapostolhs sto Neo Delxi.Thes allh apodeiksh?Kane
mia bolta apo th theologikh sxolh athinwn en wra mathimatwn
na deis posoi allodapoi spoudazoun(idiws oi mayroi einai polloi
kai spoudazoun me ypotrofies ths ekklhsias)
Thes kai allo?Ekei h ierapostolh ginetai sthn ntopia glwssa
me metafrash twn akolouthiwn stis ntopies dialektous(fantasou
ti prospatheia apaiteitai gia na mathei o ellhnas ierapostolos
ta "zoulou" + na metafrasei ta dysnohta leitourgika biblia sth
glwssa ayth).Na sou ypenthymisw oti oi katholikoi kai oi
prwtestantes ierapostoloi apaitoun apo tous hdh "myhmenous"
xristianous thn ekmathish latinikwn askwntas etsi """ekpolitismo"""
Antitheta oi orthodoksoi ierapostoloi sebontai thn ntopia
glwssa tous opws kai ta ntopia ithi kai ethima.
Gia na mh sou pw ti dyskolies antimetwpizoun oi ierapostoloi
opou exontas na kalypsoun TERASTIES perioxes kanoun 200 Km
thn hmera se dromous ths plakas(max taxythta 30Km).Gia na mh
sou pw gia to oti genika den yparxei soi nero,oute hlektriko
oute oute oute .Na sou pw mhpws gia to oti se polla xwria
ths indias pinoun oloi oi katoikoi nero apo mia lakkouba me
lasponera sto kentro tou xwriou(sthn idia ""plenoun"" ta mageirika
skeyh).To nero malista ananewnetai spania (blepe otan brexei)
Etsi o ierapostolos einai ypoxrewmenos na piei kai o idios
apo to idio nero :)(mhn pei kaneis giati de ginontai gewtrhseis
se OLA ta xwria apo tis ierapostoles ,giati milame gia TERASTIO
arithmo xwriwn se 3 hpeirous :).Ase pou akomh kai h metafora
mhxanhmatwn einai problhmatikh.(opoios thelhse na ktisei spiti
se kanena apomakrysmeno xwrio ths oreinhs elladas tha parei
mia geysh tou 1 tois xiliois twn problhmatwn pou yparxoun)
Na mhn pw gia klimatologikes synthikes :) H gia peina.......
Pou les xasaph ayta einai antiratsismos gia mena.To na kaneis
poreies me to aytokollhto "kill racists" panw apo to LEVIS kai
meta na pas sto kontino soublantzidiko na xlapakiazeis ta
soublakia wste na eisai kardamwmenos gia na pas sto kontino
mpourdello na phdhkseis tis dystyxes kopellies pou den exoune
ston hlio moira h na deis tis tsontes sthn TV ....
bresto monos sou ti eidous antiratsistikh ekstrateia einai.
> > To koino shmeio kai twn dyo logikwn einai oti xarakthrizoume
> > atoma me bash to gegonos xwris na eksetasoume tis idees tous
> > kai kollame tampeles stelnontas tous "egklhmaties" sto pyr
> > to ekswtero. :)
>
> Se parakalw, ekei dikaiwma va mas steilei emas tous allo9rnskous exei movo
> o Makariwtatos... :-)
Eseis omws ton steilate hdh.
> > > Kai pou'sai akoma perimevw tnv emperistatwmevn sou avalysn gia to giati n
> > > logikn mou dev eivai aplws fasistikn alla vazistikn!!! ;-> Movo bres kati
> > > pio e3ypvo va peis apo logika almata sav ta parapavw...
> >
> > Gia mena nazismos einai o yperthetikos bathmos tou fasismou.An
>
> Sa va leme apo ta 2 kila kai meta eivai Nazi, pio liga aplos fasistas. ;-)
> Gia ri3e mas mia plnrn avalysn. :-)
Ase den thn kanw giati tha sou pesei baria.
> > se peirazei to nazistikh symperifora to pernw pisw kai soy
> > afhnw mono to fasistikh symperifora(efoson ayto se kanei na
> > aisthanesai kalytera)
>
> Ti va sou pw re paidi mou, perimeve va trabn3w ta kazavaki twra pou
> avakoufistnka. :->
>
> [snip]
> > Gia to ti einai giaphs kyttakse eksw apo to parathyro sou.
>
> Re mpas kai mperdejes tnv Providence gia tn Wall Street;
Den exw idea pou meneis alla ekei sto amerika exete mpolikous apo
daytous rikse mia kalyterh matia sto parathyro kai sigoura tha deis
pollous
> > Aytoi pou theloun na xwrisoun ton ellhna apo thn orthodoksia
> > mporoun kallista na xarakthristoun graikyloi giati tha kanoun ton
> > ellhniko san ta moutra tous(exoun hdh arxisei th douleia tous pros
> > thn kateythynsh ayth)
>
> Tov ellnviko;;;; Poiov "ellnviko"; Tov kafe; :-) Mn mou sygxizesai poly
> kai mas pa9eis tipota kai meta ti 9a kavoume xwris eseva; Hsouv
> telos pavtwv mia kapoia lysn... :-) Pavtws eilikriva sou systnvw ta
> X-Files the Movie, ekei va deis kai douleia kai katey9yvsn kai syvomwsia
> me tn sesoula. :-)
Megale balle opou ellhniko-->ellhnismo kai ola sou ta problhmata
tha lythoun
> [snip]
> > O Xristodoulos einai dhmofilhs giati
> > 1)ayta pou leei aggizoun to lao
>
> Pou akribws; :-)
>
> > 2)anagnwrizoun thn eilikrineia twn logwn tou mesa apo th thiteia tou
> > sth mhtropolh bolou(dhmhtriados) kai ta prwta deigmata grafhs apo th
> > nea tou thesh.
>
> Dnladn ta deigmata grafns sto syvedrio tou Stoxou dev metrouv giati ntav
> priv givei arxipapas;
>
> > 3) den exei kommatistei(opws epimonws prospathoun kapoioi na tou
> > prosapsoun)
>
> Pws va kommatistei o amoiros otav oi fasistes eivai diaskorpismevoi se
> perissotera tou evos kommata...
>
> > > > Y.G. To onoma "abdul the butcher " phgazei apo tis dhmokratikes
> > > > sou kataboles?To "Xasaph ths lywn " mou fernei sto nou...
> > >
> > > Kai to diko sou to "Gewrgios Papadopoulos" alla elega va mnv to avaferw...
> > > :-)
> >
> > H periptwsh sou einai POLY baria.To dionyshs to blepeis giwrgos :)
>
> Giati esy tn Lywv pou tnv eides; Gia syveirmous milame.
Mporeis na mas ekshgeis apo poious DHMOKRATIKOUS egwnes proerxetai to
kallitexniko sou pseydwnymo "Abdulah The Butcher" ?
> > Epeita ksexnas oti to diko mou onoma einai to pragmatiko kai den to
> > dialeksa egw(oute fysika ntrepomai giayto).
>
> Ayto eleipe va vtrepovtai tosoi polloi Papadopouloi...
A malista.Oloi oi Papadopouloi sthn ellada kai to ekswteriko einai
fasistes loipon .Megale eisai apiastos.
Fysika to Xristo-douliko sou entypo den exei pei koybenta gia
ayta pou anaferw parapanw.
> > Alhtheia to diko sou to leksiko sth leksh graikylos antistoixei
> > to antiratsisths?
>
> Oxi, oute bebaia kai to giapns/amerikavaki. :-) Alla symbaivei polloi e3'
> aytwv twv "graikylwv" va pngaivouv stis avtiratsistikes ekdnlwseis avt'
> aytwv tou Stoxou. :-) Kai episns symbaivei oi despotades *syvn9ws* va mnv
> tous kavouv parea - all' avt' aytou va to rixvouv stis misallodo3ies.
> E3aireseis yparxouv bebaia pavta alla o dikos sas de figourarei mexri
> stigmns. :-)
Megale des parapanw gia ton "antiratsistiko" sou agwna.
Oso gia ta gnwsto:"oloi oi pappades ekklhsia einai misallodoksoi pou
trwne me deka koytalia", "oloi oi kalogeroi sto Agio Oros einai adelfes"
klp klp (kollame sto telos kai ena "yparxoun kai ejaireseis" gia na
eimaste kalymenoi) ena sou lew: eks' idiwn krinete
> > > PS3> Botsn kala va'sai palnkari mou, kai gia ta ma9nmata peri fasismou de
> > > xreiazomai tov Mpampiviwtn, exw esas tous opadous tns "Epavastasews" edw
> > > stn lista... :-) Kai pou'sai, kai oi syvtagmatarxes egkaiviazav kai
> > > vosokomeia kai bazav kai reyma, ayto dev tous ekave oute ligotero fasistes
> > > oute ligotero kretivous. :-)
> >
> > Ase megale.To poios einai ths epanastasews to blepoume.Dystyxws
> > gia sena omws o stalin pethane.Oute gkoulag oute ta aousvic gyrizoun
> > pisw.
>
> Ki elega pote 9a to peta3ei, pote 9a to peta3ei... Kai pou 3ereis re
> orgio tou paralogou pws exw kammia idiaitern kaoura gia tov Stalin, 'n tov
> opoiodnpote kommouvistn, mar3istn/levivistn/maoistn/trotskistn 'n allo se
> -istn;
An den exeis sxesh me goulag menei to aousvic :) (prosexe ESY
aytoapokaleisai xasaphs)
> PS> Ayrio to brady n syvexeia to vwritero giati kaln n diaskedasn alla
> exoume kai douleies kai 9a mas tis kavei o Xristodoulos... :-)
Xairomai pou to glentas.
Dionyshs
Yannis Papakonstantinou
At 10:32 AM 6/25/98 +0300, George Bobolos wrote:
>Ekeivo omws pou, egw toulaxistov, dev katalabaivw, eivai giati exete oloi
>fagw8ei me tov Xristodoulo. Ki' o Serafeim de3ios (de3iotatos malista)
>ntav, dev 8umamai omws kavevav va tov eixe katngornsei gia ta politika tou
>pisteuw.
Giwrgo,
eteron ekateron: o politis Xristodoulos einai eleytheros na exei oti
apopsi thelei, na psifizei oti thelei, kai na syzitaei me tous filous tou
oti thelei. Ayto pou den einai symfwno me tin thesi tou einai to oti
xrisimopoiei tin thesi tou ws Arxierea gia na perasei politikes theseis se
mazes kai na organwsei kat'ousian politikes sygkentrwseis.
Na sto pw kai pio apla: an kathe fora pou didaskw ta mystika tis
kompioutas sti neolaia tis Kalifornias xalaw tin misi wra se asxeti me to
mathima politikologia kai propaganda o poulos tha einai varys ki
ameiliktos. Asxeta me to ti theseis pernaw ki asxeta me to an exw kalypsei
tin yli etsi n' alliws. Apla ws thema arxwn kai deontologias.
Eksakoloutheis na sfyrizeis amerimna otan sou eipa pro kairou oti o
katheis eis to eidos tou ki o Loumidis stous kafedes ki otan o 40kos sou
ypenthymizei ton rolo tis Ekklisias. To symperasma einai aplo: kaneis toses
xaroules pou vrethike sto palko kapoios me theseis pou sou aresoun pou sta
rx/ sou i paraviasi tis deontologias, sta rx/ sou kai i thriskeia, sta rx/
sou kai to oti gia xronia legame gia ton kako ton Papa pou mpleketai me tin
politiki. Alla, kai na to thymitheis, opote i deontologia kai oi arxes
paraviazontai ki emeis adiaforoume sto telos tha tin plirwsoume.
>Ki' o Serafeim eixe kavei, kata kairous, dnlwseis, dev 8umamai
>omws va eixe avtidrasei kaveis. Edw eixe orkisei tnv "kubervnsn" Iwavvidn
>kai kaveis dev eipe koubevta, oute tote, oute argotera.
>Ti eivai, loipov, auto, pou kavei tov Xristodoulo, avtipa8n se kapoio kosmo
>(poiov kosmo, dnladn, se elaxistous, av laboume up' oyiv ta gallops pou tov
>fervouv prwto se dnmotikotnta) ??? AUTO ARKIBWS !!! To gegovos, dnladn, oti
>meta apo POLLA xrovia, evas av8rwpos tns ekklnsias 8ewreitai ws o pleov
>dnmofilns Ellnvas politns. Kai tautoxrova, to gegovos oti autos o av8rwpos
>tns ekklnsias, fervei stnv epifaveia 8emata ta opoia, evtexvws, briskovtav
>mexri twra stov pato.
Ase re Giwrgo. De trouth xaz mpin rivilnt... Na ton valoume sta X-Files 2.
>Milnse o Xristodoulos gia xameves patrides prox8es
>stnv Ikaria kai xeirokrtouse me pa8os OLOS o kosmos. E, av auto eseva Abdul
>mou se peirazei, ti 8es va kavoume twra, ESU mn xeirokrotas ama dev 8eleis
>... Eixe paei tis proalles sta sxoleia kai, afou suzntnse me ta paidia,
>tous xarise apo mia Agia Grafn. Toso kako ntav ki' auto ??? E, opoios dev
>tnv n8ele, as tnv petage meta sta skoupidia. Ki' alla polla .....
>Kai gia va teleiwvw. H ellnvikn koivwvia, magkes, kourasmevn tosa xrovia
>ap' tous diaforous "swtnres", faivetai pws 3avagurvaei kovta stnv ekklnsia.
Poia ekklisia re Giwrgo? Gia allon "swtira" prokeitai. Me moni diafora oti
einai mi eklegmenos ki oti den vgainei na anoiksei ki ena komma on the side
gia na kseroume pote milaei ws politkos kai pote ws ierarxis. Swtiras
travesti diladi.
---Anipsios
>......
>giwrgos
>
Dionyshs Papadopoulos
Lida Anestidou wrote:
>
> Dionyshs Papadopoulos wrote:
> >
> > Eksakoloutheis tous xarakthrismous dokimazontas thn ypomonh mou
> > Dhladh mono me brisimo katalabaineis?Kytta mh sokaristeis pali
> > opws me to floca kai arxiseis ta:"to xontrynes anepanorthwta" kai
> > ase "na mhn parektrapw telika"
>
> h8ela na h3era:oloi osoi apeileite me 'brisimo" giati panta ennoeite
> ekfraseis tou styl: gmiesai, phdiesai, kariolh kai loipa pou 8a
> sokaroun?
> dhladh, mou to les ws proeidopoihsh giati den exeis allo tropo na peis
> kati gia na akousteis?
> ti epa8es? se enoxlhse to "anohtos kai kopanos" pou se eipa?
>
> tolmas na mou para8eseis tis anohsies sou parakatw 8ewrwntas pws den
> antilambanomai ti les?
> eisai sobaros?
Telika exeis plaka.
Synexise.(oxi mh fobasai,de se brizw oute me lekseis pou se
sokaroun oute me alles)
Me agaph
XXXXXX
000000
Dionyshs
(gia osous den kseroun tous kwdikes pou epikoinwnoume me
th lhda : X=agkalitses,O=filakia)
Dionyshs Papadopoulos
Gia osous kathgoroun to Xristodoulo gia ratsismo as doun
to arthro tou:
http://www.i-m-dimitriados.gr/html/gr/section02/socialmatters/speeches/03/03.htm
(an de douleyei to parapanw link as pane sto
http://www.i-m-dimitriados.gr kai as dialeksoun ellhnika kai tha
odhghthoun ekei.
Pheidia kala ekanes kai mas thymises to site ths mhtropolhs dhmhtriados
Filika Dionyshs
Dionyshs Papadopoulos
Nikos Sarantakos wrote:
>
> Me kaqhsuxazei o Dionushs, alla...:
>
> At 11:03 ðì 24/06/98 +0300, Dionyshs Papadopoulos wrote:
> >Penthouse=bordello (allwste kai o prwhn ekproswpos typou
> >ths ekklhsias k.Xantzhfwths eixe dwsei synenteyksh sto idio
> >periodiko xwris kanenas na tou pei tipote).Oi enstaseis aforousan
> >sto oti enas episkopos paraxarakse ta logia tou idiou tou Xristou
> >diastrefontas to xristianismo prosxwrwntas sthn airesh tou
> >nikolaitismou.
>
> Eixa thn entupwsh oti h epiqesh egine kuriws epeidh milhse sto
> Penthouse (h' to Playboy, den exei shmasia:-) kai deutereuontws
> gia tis apopseis pou eksefrase. An psaksw polu, qa brw kai
> dhlwseis ierewn apo thn epoxh ekeinh. Alla as einai, edw mas
> bgazeis allo labraki.
> Les oti o Zak. *prosxwrhse* sthn airesh tou nikola.itismou.
To ti eipe(an eipe) kapoios memonomenos iereas den exei shmasia
Egw sou anaferw gia thn apofash ths ieras synodou.Epeita sou eipa
kai sygkekrimeno paradeigma me ton Xantzhfwth(sigoura yparxoun kai
alloi).Synepws to kako den htan pou yphrxe h synenteyksh anamesa
se diagwnismo opisthiwn (sic).To kako htan to TI eipe sth
synenteyksh
> An ksereis ti les, auto shmainei duo tina:
>
> H' les psemata,
> h' les alhqeia, opote bebaia oloi oi alloi ierarxes proeksarxontos
> tou Xristodoulou anexontai mesa stous kolpous tous enan
> airetiko. Oxi enan pou aplws ekfrazei airetikes apopseis
> alla' enan pou prosxwrhse, eipes, sthn airesh tou Nikola.itismou.
Paizeis me tis lekseis.Fysika kai den leei kanenas airetikos oti
einai airetikos h oti prosxwrei sthn tade airesh.Apla ta legomena tou
einai h didaskalia ths sygkekrimenhs aireshs.Aytos leei oti einai
orthodoskos(opws elegan oloi oi airetikoi sthn istoria ths ekklhsias).
> Ma, auto den einai asugxwrhth oligwria? Kai oi ptwxoi
> Zakunqioi ti ftaine na einai ekteqeimenoi nuxqhmeron
> ston nikola.itismo? Pws qa tous prostatepsoume?
> Den qa eprepe na kaqaireqei amesws o apaisios
> Nikola.itisths? Kai o Xristodoulos, anti na koitazei na
> euprepisei ta geneia twn papadwn, qema bebaiws upsisths
> shmasias kai auto den lew, den qa eprepe
> prwta na apallaksei thn omorfh Zakunqo apo ta nuxia
> tou nikola.itismou? Epeigomai, dioti qelw na paw ekei diakopes to
> kalokairi, kai fobamai na ekqesw tis agnes psuxes
> twn paidiwn mou sto nikola.itistiko dokano.
O xrysostomos exei hdh parapemfthei sto peitharxiko(me apofash OLHS
ths ieras synodou ) kai oi diadikasies syntoma tha oloklhrwthoun
> YG1
> Ti einai h airesh tou Nikola.itismou? Na anagnwrizeis profhth
> ton Ntemh Nikola.idh ths AEK?
Akribws.Pws to katalabes?
Dionyshs Papadopoulos
Dionyshs Papadopoulos
Nikos Sakellaridis wrote:
>
> > sthn ekklhsia.
> > Afhse pou epishs ektos ekklhsias htan kai h apopsh tou xrysostomou
> > peri thanatikhs katadikhs .
> >
> > Dionyshs
>
> kai pia einai h 8esh ths ekklhsias sto 8ema??
> (emperistatwmena parakalw)
>
Kytta ,den eimai eidikos.Tha sou pw oso pio emperistatwmena mporw
Dionyshs Papadopoulos
Yannis Papakonstantinou wrote:
>
> At 10:32 AM 6/25/98 +0300, George Bobolos wrote:
> >Ekeivo omws pou, egw toulaxistov, dev katalabaivw, eivai giati exete oloi
> >fagw8ei me tov Xristodoulo. Ki' o Serafeim de3ios (de3iotatos malista)
> >ntav, dev 8umamai omws kavevav va tov eixe katngornsei gia ta politika tou
> >pisteuw.
>
> Giwrgo,
>
> eteron ekateron: o politis Xristodoulos einai eleytheros na exei oti
> apopsi thelei, na psifizei oti thelei, kai na syzitaei me tous filous tou
> oti thelei. Ayto pou den einai symfwno me tin thesi tou einai to oti
> xrisimopoiei tin thesi tou ws Arxierea gia na perasei politikes theseis se
> mazes kai na organwsei kat'ousian politikes sygkentrwseis.
Poies einai oi politikes theseis?Oi theseis tou gia ta narkwtika?
Gia to ratsismo?Gia thn ethnikh epagrypnhsh?Theleis mou fainetai mia
ekklhsia makrya apo ta koinwnika problhmata.Apokommenh apo to lao
Dystyxws omws gia kapoious o arxiepiskopos tha milaei kai ama den aresei
se kapoion as tou kanei SYGKEKRIMENH kritikh epi aytwn pou leei
(an exei na pei kati epi ths oysias).
> Na sto pw kai pio apla: an kathe fora pou didaskw ta mystika tis
> kompioutas sti neolaia tis Kalifornias xalaw tin misi wra se asxeti me to
> mathima politikologia kai propaganda o poulos tha einai varys ki
> ameiliktos. Asxeta me to ti theseis pernaw ki asxeta me to an exw kalypsei
> tin yli etsi n' alliws. Apla ws thema arxwn kai deontologias.
Afou den kanei kalo mathima o Xristodoulos(opws les) apolyse ton :)
Eipame ,perimenw SYGKEKRIMENA poia einai ta propagandistika pou
leei o Xristodoulos.
> Eksakoloutheis na sfyrizeis amerimna otan sou eipa pro kairou oti o
> katheis eis to eidos tou ki o Loumidis stous kafedes ki otan o 40kos sou
> ypenthymizei ton rolo tis Ekklisias. To symperasma einai aplo: kaneis toses
> xaroules pou vrethike sto palko kapoios me theseis pou sou aresoun pou sta
> rx/ sou i paraviasi tis deontologias, sta rx/ sou kai i thriskeia, sta rx/
> sou kai to oti gia xronia legame gia ton kako ton Papa pou mpleketai me tin
> politiki. Alla, kai na to thymitheis, opote i deontologia kai oi arxes
> paraviazontai ki emeis adiaforoume sto telos tha tin plirwsoume.
Mporeis na peis SYGKEKRIMENA gia poia parabiash ths thriskeias h ths
deontologias milas?
Me poia sygkekrimenh praksh o Xristodoulos apekthse politikh kai
oikonomikh dynamh antistoixh tou Papa anebokatebazontas kybernhseis,
kanontas emporio oplwn(exei akoustei apo diaforetikes=mh
ekklhsiastikes phges kai ayto),elegxontas tis kratikes mhxanes se
polla krath klp
Erwthsh krisews:Giati h KGB ebale korious sto batikano kai den
eballe sto Oikoumeniko patriarxeio h sthn elladikh ekklhsia?
(malista oi dyo teleytaies eixan POLY megalyterh epirroh sta
thriskeytika pragmata ths rwssias)
Hint:Mhpws o rolos tou pappa sthn ESSD htan politikos kai oxi
thriskeytikos?
Mhpws o Xristodoulos epikaleitai to alathito(tou Papa) kai den to
phrame eidhsh?Ama deis kalytera tha diapistwseis oti OLES oi
shmantikes apofaseis gia thn ekklhsia lambanontai SYLLOGIKA apo thn
iera synodo(kapou 80 atoma) .Den tis pernei monos tou o
Xristodoulos.
> >Ki' o Serafeim eixe kavei, kata kairous, dnlwseis, dev 8umamai
> >omws va eixe avtidrasei kaveis. Edw eixe orkisei tnv "kubervnsn" Iwavvidn
> >kai kaveis dev eipe koubevta, oute tote, oute argotera.
> >Ti eivai, loipov, auto, pou kavei tov Xristodoulo, avtipa8n se kapoio kosmo
> >(poiov kosmo, dnladn, se elaxistous, av laboume up' oyiv ta gallops pou tov
> >fervouv prwto se dnmotikotnta) ??? AUTO ARKIBWS !!! To gegovos, dnladn, oti
> >meta apo POLLA xrovia, evas av8rwpos tns ekklnsias 8ewreitai ws o pleov
> >dnmofilns Ellnvas politns. Kai tautoxrova, to gegovos oti autos o av8rwpos
> >tns ekklnsias, fervei stnv epifaveia 8emata ta opoia, evtexvws, briskovtav
> >mexri twra stov pato.
>
> Ase re Giwrgo. De trouth xaz mpin rivilnt... Na ton valoume sta X-Files 2.
Wpa re megale.Kalese ton praktwra Moulder na sou lysei to mysthrio ths
laikhs apodoxhs tou Xristodoulou.
> >Milnse o Xristodoulos gia xameves patrides prox8es
> >stnv Ikaria kai xeirokrtouse me pa8os OLOS o kosmos. E, av auto eseva Abdul
> >mou se peirazei, ti 8es va kavoume twra, ESU mn xeirokrotas ama dev 8eleis
> >... Eixe paei tis proalles sta sxoleia kai, afou suzntnse me ta paidia,
> >tous xarise apo mia Agia Grafn. Toso kako ntav ki' auto ??? E, opoios dev
> >tnv n8ele, as tnv petage meta sta skoupidia. Ki' alla polla .....
> >Kai gia va teleiwvw. H ellnvikn koivwvia, magkes, kourasmevn tosa xrovia
> >ap' tous diaforous "swtnres", faivetai pws 3avagurvaei kovta stnv ekklnsia.
>
> Poia ekklisia re Giwrgo? Gia allon "swtira" prokeitai. Me moni diafora oti
> einai mi eklegmenos ki oti den vgainei na anoiksei ki ena komma on the side
> gia na kseroume pote milaei ws politkos kai pote ws ierarxis. Swtiras
> travesti diladi.
Polles sxeseis me trabesti blepw na exeis kai anyshxw.
> ---Anipsios
>
Theios
Dionyshs
Dionyshs Papadopoulos
Abdullah the Butcher wrote:
> > > > > Mnpws ta3ideje kai touristikn 9esn; Aytn tn leptomereia pws kai de tn
> > > > > ma9ame;
> > > >
> > > > Den to kserw ayto alla den exei tosh shmasia.Edw sou milaw gia lear
> > > > jet ta opoia ta esteile apo ekei pou hrthan
> > >
> > > Apo pou nr9av; :-) Kai giati dev exei snmasia; Dnladn av plnrwse eva alfa
> > > poso gia va ta3idejei prwtn 9esn avti gia eva mikrotero poso gia va paei
> > > touristikn me to laoutziko dev kavei diafora; Ta epipleov xrnmata de 9a
> > > mporousav va eixav paei se kalyterous skopous apo tnv avesn aytou kai tns
> > > syvodeias tou; :-)
> >
> > Den kserw an phge me touristikh h oxi.Auto pou kserw einai oti einai
> > o prwtos pou diwxnei ta lear JET pou tou stelnoun kai paei me thn
> > kratikh etaireia kai epipleon plhrwnei kanonika to eisithrio.
> > Esy pws milas gia to oti den phge me aplo eisithrio?To ksereis oti
> > den phge?Olo to oikodomhma sou stizetai se mia proswpikh sou
> > aythaireth ypothesh.
>
> milas gia "oikodomnmata"... Egw *rwtnsa* kati ki esy mou eipes pws "dev
> exei snmasia" opote egw e3ngnsa giati exei snmasia. Ta *oikodomnmata* ta
> afnvw stov Xristodoulo gia *otav* ta kavei... Mia kai dnlwveis adiabastos
> va rwtnsw tous loipous Xristo-doulous tns listas (Feidias, Botsns,
> Mpompolos) mpas kai mporouv va mou lysouv tnv aporia...
Eimai ypoxrewmenos egw na kserw ti eisithrio ebgalle o xristodoulos?
Esy pou ton kathgoreis oti den paei me ton laountziko klp na mas
peis pou emathes oti den phge me aplo eisithrio.
> [snip afnvw ki ayto gia empedwsn]
> > > Megale av esy de blepeis tov fasismo sto keimevo pou plekei to egkwmio tou
> > > Kajaln kai twv 9esewv tou ws ellnvokevtrikes, ellnvojyxes kai de 3erw ki
> > > egw ti allo avarwtiemai pou tov blepeis...
>
> Mia kai elaba kai paraklnsn kai dev exw xrovo av mporeis metetreje to
> keimevo se lativikous xaraktnres wste va to diabasouv ki osoi de mporouv
> alliws.
Kapoios eixe pei gia mia WWW selida pou metafrazei aytomata se
greek-english
> > Anti allhs apanthshs PROKALW kathe endiaferomeno na diabasei h na a-
> > kousei (se real audio) thn omilia tou arxiepiskopou sto synedrio pou
> > SYNDIORGANWSE o stoxos me th MHTROPOLH IERISSOU kai na diapistwsei o
> > idios poso proodeytikh(opws lew egw) h fasistikh (opws leei o abdul)
> > einai.( www.stoxos.com)
>
> Ta egkwmia parempiptovtws stov Kajaln dev ntav movo gia tn diorgavwsn tou
> syvedriou alla kai gia tn gevikotern stasn tou kai tis 9eseis tou... Ayta
> gia va mn vomizei o Feidias pws to koutoxorto to xwveyoume oloi e3isou.
> Metaferw biastika kai sygvwmn gia tyxov la9n:
>
> "0elw apo tn 9esn aytn va sygxarw gia alln mia fora tov kyrio Kajaln,
> ekdotn kai diey9yvtn tns gvwstns efnmeridas Stoxos twv A9nvwv, pou eivai
> gvwstos ellnvokevtrikos kai ellnvojyxos kai taytoxrova Xristokevtrikos kai
> Or9odo3os. Exoume avagkn apo tetoious av9rwpous epitelous. Av9rwpous oi
> opoioi 9a balouv stnv prwtn moira ta 9rnskeytika kai ta e9vika mas idewdn,
> kai tous problnmatismous ekeivous oi opoioi pavtote ypnr3av oi baseis gia
> tnv ousiastikn epibiwsn aytou tou topou kai aytou tou laou."
>
> De mpaivw stov kopo va ypogrammisw tipota apo to parapavw, milaei movo
> tou. Av kaveis dev to katalabaivei, de ftaiei to keimevo, ta myala pou
> koubalaei movo. :->
Ma kala den blepeis?Epikrotei to endiaferon gia ellada kai
xristianismo.Epishs einai h prwth omilia h synenteyksh pou blepeis?
Apo tis (kyriolektika) dekades dhmosies dhlwseis,emfaniseis,
synenteykseis klp esy to mono pou exeis na tou katalogiseis einai
oti eipe kala logia gia ton oikodespoth se ena synedrio?Ayto
einai to egklhma tou?An ta epixeirhmata sou eksantlountai se
ayto, tote mporw na ypothesw oti symfwneis me tis "epi ths ousias"
theseis tou arxiepiskopou ?
> > Oson afora to ti einai fasistiko ,na se parapempsw sto gegonos oti
> > kata th diarkeia ths xountas sthn ellada,opoios akouge theodorakh=kom-
> > mounisths.Omoia gia esena twra opoios paei se synedrio pou einai
> > syndiorganwths o stoxos einai fasistas.H parapanw logikh einai safws
> > fasistikh logikh.(ektos an oi syntagmatarxes pou thn efarmosan
> > mexri to 74 den htan fasistes :)
>
> Sto eipe kapoios pws sta paixvidia tns logikns eisai Sakns kai to pnres
> pavw sou; ;->
>
> a) To va akouei kapoios mousikn evos kommouvistn syv9etn eivai avtistoixo
> me to va akouei kapoios mousikn evos fasista syv9etn.
> b) To va egkwmiazei kapoios tn stasn kai tis idees evos kommouvistn eivai
> avtistoixo me to va egkwmiazei tn stasn kai tis idees evos fasista.
Mpa ,sta paixnidia logikhs de sou bgainei kaneis mprosta.
Kommounisths einai o theodwrakhs?Tote kai o mhtsotakhs koumounisths
einai?(na sou ypenthymisw oti to 90 o theodwrakhs htan boyleyths ths
ND?)
Ayto pou eipa (kai kaneis pws den katalabaineis) einai oti
xarakthrizeis fasista enan anthrwpo pou phge se ena synedrio kai
milhse gia tous NEOMARTYRES ths ekklhsias mono kai mono epeidh
o enas apo tous oikodespotes einai kata th gnwmh sou fasistas
(entaksei eipe kai dyo filofronhseis ston oikodespoth)
Paromoia oi xountikoi xarakthrizan kommounistes osous akoygan
theodwrakh h "eixan dosolhpsies" me ""kommounistes"" klp
To koino shmeio kai twn dyo logikwn einai oti xarakthrizoume
atoma me bash to gegonos xwris na eksetasoume tis idees tous
kai kollame tampeles stelnontas tous "egklhmaties" sto pyr
to ekswtero. :)
> Kai pou'sai akoma perimevw tnv emperistatwmevn sou avalysn gia to giati n
> logikn mou dev eivai aplws fasistikn alla vazistikn!!! ;-> Movo bres kati
> pio e3ypvo va peis apo logika almata sav ta parapavw...
Gia mena nazismos einai o yperthetikos bathmos tou fasismou.An
se peirazei to nazistikh symperifora to pernw pisw kai soy
afhnw mono to fasistikh symperifora(efoson ayto se kanei na
aisthanesai kalytera)
> > Oson afora tous graikylous ti se enoxlei?Einai mia apopsh (me thn
> > opoia apolyta symfwnw) oti an afhsei o ellhnas thn orthodoksia
> > tote tha ginei amerikanaki,enas giaphs (h monterna ekfrash tou
> > graikylou).
>
> Koita va deis pou dev n3era pws oi ellnves ka9olikoi pou 3erw eivai
> amerikavakia... Kai pou'sai, to graikylos=giapns/amerikavaki pou to
> syvavtnses; Edwse epe3ngnseis o "makariwtatos"; O Mpampiviwtns ti exei va
> pei ep' aytou re Botsn; :-)
Gia to ti einai giaphs kyttakse eksw apo to parathyro sou.
Aytoi pou theloun na xwrisoun ton ellhna apo thn orthodoksia
mporoun kallista na xarakthristoun graikyloi giati tha kanoun ton
ellhniko san ta moutra tous(exoun hdh arxisei th douleia tous pros
thn kateythynsh ayth)
> > Alla apagoreyetai na leei thn apopsh tou ayth o Arxiepiskopos ths
> > Elladas? Giati kapoioi pesane epanw toy?
>
> Isws dev exeis syveidntopoinsei pws parea me tnv eley9eria tns ekfrasns
> (tnv opoia tnv exei opws 9a eprepe va tnv exei kai o ka9e Ellnvas politns
> alla dystyxws yparxouv kai oi e3aireseis otav mas ballovtai ta e9vika mas
> symferovta kai grafoume to Syvtagma sta palia mas ypodnmata) yparxei kai n
> eley9eria tns krisns. Koivws as leei o,ti tou katebei o Xristodoulos alla
> ayto de snmaivei pws de mporei kaveis va tov kritikarei. Osoi profavws
> eipav pws dev exei *dikaiwma* va leei o,ti leei exouv paromoies vootropies
> me to filaraki tou Xristodoulou tov Kajaln. Oi ypoloipoi omws (kai ypnr3av
> polloi) pou aplws ekrivav ta logia tou kala kavave. Opws kai stov kafeve n
> malakeia syvodeyetai apo roxalo. :-)
Poios apagoreyse thn kritikh?Ayto pou kaythriasa(den apagoreysa)egw
einai thn kakopisth kritikh pou exei "perierga" kinhtra.(des kai ta
ypoloipa mhnymata epi tou thematos)
> > H pragmatikh aitia einai oti
> > tous TROMOKRATHSE h eyreia aphxhsh pou exei sto lao o logos tou.
> > Etsi exoun arxisei ton(ypoulo) polemo fthoras tou.
>
> Oute gia ta X-Files va egrafes sevaria... :-) To ousiastiko erwtnma eivai
> av eivai dnmofilns giati o laos 3erei ti fasistiko gourouvi eivai kai gi'
> ayto tou aresei (opote Dnmntrakn Botsn mou, mn stevaxwriesai ka9olou
> mavar' mou, 9a 3aval9ei n mera pou 9a mas balete stov gyjo gia to kalo
> mas kai 9a to exoume zntnsei oi idioi) 'n giati o laos dev exei parei
> prefa akoma gia to ti symbaivei opote kalo eivai va evnmerw9ei. :-) Stnv
> periorismevn mou ws ta twra empeiria exw diapistwsei to deytero, dnladn me
> to pou tous eipa ta peri Kajaln klp. oi ev9ousiasmevoi Xristodoulikoi
> exasav olo tous tov ev9ousiasmo... :-) Eivai giati epesa se "fwlea
> xristiavwv kommouvistwv" mnpws; :-)
O Xristodoulos einai dhmofilhs giati
1)ayta pou leei aggizoun to lao
2)anagnwrizoun thn eilikrineia twn logwn tou mesa apo th thiteia tou
sth mhtropolh bolou(dhmhtriados) kai ta prwta deigmata grafhs apo th
nea tou thesh.
3) den exei kommatistei(opws epimonws prospathoun kapoioi na tou
prosapsoun)
> > Dionyshs Papadopoulos
> >
> > Y.G. To onoma "abdul the butcher " phgazei apo tis dhmokratikes
> > sou kataboles?To "Xasaph ths lywn " mou fernei sto nou...
>
> Kai to diko sou to "Gewrgios Papadopoulos" alla elega va mnv to avaferw...
> :-)
H periptwsh sou einai POLY baria.To dionyshs to blepeis giwrgos :)
Epeita ksexnas oti to diko mou onoma einai to pragmatiko kai den to
dialeksa egw(oute fysika ntrepomai giayto).
To problhma einai me esena,pou oi DHMOKRATIKES sou eyaisthisies
se odhghsan na epilekseis pseydwnymo "XASAPHS ths Lywn" (ep syggnwmh
xasaphs abdul ithela na pw)
Meta kanw lathos na milaw gia nazistikes symperifores?
Abdul
> PS1> Feidia, lign prospa9eia akoma kai 9a bgeis apo ta mayra katastixa twv
> ypoloipwv fasistwv kai 9a exeis va avnsyxeis movo gia tov PapaRa... :-)
> PS2> Kai pou'sai Feidia, ama dw tov Xristodoulo va symmetexei stis
> avtiratsistikes diadnlwseis (parea me tous "graikylous" vte :-), va
> bon9aei kaveva mousoulmavo metavastn klp. 9a peistw pws eivai dixasmevn
> proswpikotnta pou apo tn mia epikrotei tis "ellnvojyxes" idees tou Kajaln
> kai apo tnv alln eivai kata tou ratsismou. Ws ta tote 9a syvexisw va 9ewrw
> pws eivai aplws fidi kolobo. :-)
Gia ton an bohthaei metanastes h oxi phgaine mia bolta pros to bolo na
deis tis enories kai ta geymata pou prosferontai.An pali sou peftei
makrya o bolos phgaine mexri peiraia meria na deis pou gyrw sta 1000
atoma trwne tzampa kathe mera se eidikh aithousa ths mhtropolhs
peiraiws.Na shmeiwthei oti gia na paei na faei o opoiosdhpote
oute ton rwtane tipote oute leei tipote.Apla phgainei kai trwei.
Loipon se plhroforw oti phgainoun kai anergoi ellhnes kai
metanastes klp
Alla fysika ayta den ta anaferoun ta dhmokratika entypa sta
opoia entryfeis :)
Alhtheia to diko sou to leksiko sth leksh graikylos antistoixei
to antiratsisths?
> PS3> Botsn kala va'sai palnkari mou, kai gia ta ma9nmata peri fasismou de
> xreiazomai tov Mpampiviwtn, exw esas tous opadous tns "Epavastasews" edw
> stn lista... :-) Kai pou'sai, kai oi syvtagmatarxes egkaiviazav kai
> vosokomeia kai bazav kai reyma, ayto dev tous ekave oute ligotero fasistes
> oute ligotero kretivous. :-)
Ase megale.To poios einai ths epanastasews to blepoume.Dystyxws
gia sena omws o stalin pethane.Oute gkoulag oute ta aousvic gyrizoun
pisw.
Dionyshs
Yiannis Chassapidis
At 03:15 PM 6/24/98 +0300, Phidias Bourlas wrote:
>Grafei twra o Giavvns o Xasapidns:
>>
>> Milaw gia PRAJEIS opws h topo8ethsh toy Kalewdh sthn e8imotypia,
>>
> Giati dnladn, epeidn o sugkekrimevos iereas ntav stn basilikn
>auln prepei va... diwx8ei; Ti ratsismos eivai autos; Gia tn 8esn tou
>(upeu8uvos e8imotupias) eivai o pleov katallnlos.
>
Mia kai fainetai oti ton Kalewdh ton jereis kala.....
Mia kai jereis oti htan sth kokoaylh.................
Mhpws jereis kai pote allote htan ypey8ynos e8imotipias sto papatzidiko?
>>
>> h aisxrh epi8esh (an kai meta ekane pisw san kalos dikolabos)
>> enantion toy PROEDROY ths Dhmokratias
>>
> To "aisxrn" mou arese. (Kai n plaka eivai pou oi favatikoi
>palaionmerologites, to kokkivo pavi ka8e sebomevou tov eauto tou
>"proodeutikou" egivav 3afvika... sumpa8eis, prokeimevou va plngei o
>arxiepiskopos.)
To "aisxrh" paei sthn prospa8eia meiwshs toy Proedroy OLLWN twn Ellhnwn.
Kati tetoia ekane kai o papas ths Aystralias enantion toy Beh,
toy Genikoy Projenoy.
Posws me endiaferei an oi palaiohmerologhtes h oi or8odojoi
einai *sympa8eis* h oxi.
Me endiaferei oti apo toys foroys moy plhrwnwntai oi papades MIAS
8rhskeias, otan to Syntagma milaei gia aneji8rhskia kai otan
h sygkekrimenh ekklhsia katexei ton megalytero ployto ths xwras moy.
>Dev 3erw ti 8a kavei o Xristodoulos me to problnma twv
>palaionmerologitwv (etsi favatikoi pou eivai 8a ta brei skoura), eav
>omws eixe 3ekivnsei ndn evergeies proseggisns kai avtimetwpisns tou
>problnmatos, kai sugkekrimeves omades (dioti uparxouv polles) tou
>palaionmerologitikou xwrou xrnsimopoinsouv tnv episkeyn autn gia va
>torpilisouv tis parapavw diadikasies (para tn 8elnsn tou proedrou tns
>Dnmokratias), tote isws apodeix8ei oti n suvevvonsn twv palaio-
>nmerologitwv me tnv politeia 8a mporouse va givei pio prosektika.
>
>>
>> kai kati alla cila
>> poy deixnoyn to poion toy typoy.
>>
> To poiov tou tupou to deixvei n diayeusn twv elpidwv twv
>diaplekomevwv sumferovtwv, ta opoia vomizav oti 8a tov exouv tou xeriou
>tous.
>
> F.M.
>
Yannis Papakonstantinou
At 12:51 PM 6/25/98 +0300, Dionyshs Papadopoulos wrote:
>Yannis Papakonstantinou wrote:
>> Giwrgo,
>>
>> eteron ekateron: o politis Xristodoulos einai eleytheros na exei oti
>> apopsi thelei, na psifizei oti thelei, kai na syzitaei me tous filous tou
>> oti thelei. Ayto pou den einai symfwno me tin thesi tou einai to oti
>> xrisimopoiei tin thesi tou ws Arxierea gia na perasei politikes theseis se
>> mazes kai na organwsei kat'ousian politikes sygkentrwseis.
>
>Poies einai oi politikes theseis?Oi theseis tou gia ta narkwtika?
>Gia to ratsismo?Gia thn ethnikh epagrypnhsh?
Ela re Dionysi, min kaneis ton kouto twra... Ante na ta paroume ena-ena ti
einai politiki thesi kai ti den einai.
Narkwtika: To na parotryneis to poimnio (pote den tin xwnepsa aytin tin
leksi, alla telos pantwn) na meinei makria apo ta narkwtika kai na tou
dwseis enallaktikes profanws den einai politiki thesi alla einai koinwniki
syneisfora tis Ekklisias. (Prospernaw to oti o Marios kanei thema an o
koinwnikos rolos tis Ekklisias prepei na exei tetois prwteyousa thesi giati
einai dyskoli kai maliari syzitisi kai kathoti nteforme protimw na synexisw
me sena pou les xontromalakies pou apantiountai eykola ki anevazw akopa
tous pontous mou sto prwtathlima xwris kan na xreiastei pros to paron na
piasw ta maura korakia tou Mountial.)
Twra, an ston agwna gia ta narkwtika o Xristodoulos proteinei, kserw'gw,
parakolouthisi tilefwnikwn grammwn tote poly kakws giati ayta einai xwrafia
dikastwn, syntagmatologwn ki en telei apofasi nomiki kai politiki (o X den
eipe kati tetoio kai to paradeigma einai gia na katalavei o Dionysis pou
kanei ton kouto.)
Omoia kai me tis xamenes patrides klp klp. Einai xwrafia twn diplwmatwn,
twn stratiwtikwn, tis kyvernisis, kai telika einai politiki apofasi to ti
kanoume (n' den kanoume) gia tis xamenes patrides. Den einai DEON kai den
einai i douleia tou na ekferei politikes theseis ws politikos apo mpalkoni.
>Theleis mou fainetai mia
>ekklhsia makrya apo ta koinwnika problhmata.Apokommenh apo to lao
>Dystyxws omws gia kapoious o arxiepiskopos tha milaei kai ama den aresei
>se kapoion as tou kanei SYGKEKRIMENH kritikh epi aytwn pou leei
>(an exei na pei kati epi ths oysias).
>
Den sxoliazw tis politikes tou theseis gia ton aploustato logo oti den
einai deon na pernaei politikes theseis apo to mpalkoni. Opoies ki an einai
aytes oi theseis. To eixa pei ayto kai sto proigoumeno minima alla esy,
eite giati eisai koutos eite giati paristaneis ton kouto, den katalavaineis.
>
>> Na sto pw kai pio apla: an kathe fora pou didaskw ta mystika tis
>> kompioutas sti neolaia tis Kalifornias xalaw tin misi wra se asxeti me to
>> mathima politikologia kai propaganda o poulos tha einai varys ki
>> ameiliktos. Asxeta me to ti theseis pernaw ki asxeta me to an exw kalypsei
>> tin yli etsi n' alliws. Apla ws thema arxwn kai deontologias.
>
>Afou den kanei kalo mathima o Xristodoulos(opws les) apolyse ton :)
Poly tha'thela na tou kovontan o misthos kai ta symparomatrounta pou tou
parexei o ellinas forologoumenos alla ti na kanoume pou sto
koinovouleytiko mas mpaxalo poios tolmaei na xasei tis psifous twn pistwn...
>Eipame ,perimenw SYGKEKRIMENA poia einai ta propagandistika pou
>leei o Xristodoulos.
>
Koita, epeidi teleiwse to quarter den tha pei oti exw kai xrono na
analyoume tis omilies tou Laki (einai ligo pio hip ap'to "Xristodoulos",
tou paei) grammi para grammi.
>> Eksakoloutheis na sfyrizeis amerimna otan sou eipa pro kairou oti o
>> katheis eis to eidos tou ki o Loumidis stous kafedes ki otan o 40kos sou
>> ypenthymizei ton rolo tis Ekklisias. To symperasma einai aplo: kaneis toses
>> xaroules pou vrethike sto palko kapoios me theseis pou sou aresoun pou sta
>> rx/ sou i paraviasi tis deontologias, sta rx/ sou kai i thriskeia, sta rx/
>> sou kai to oti gia xronia legame gia ton kako ton Papa pou mpleketai me tin
>> politiki. Alla, kai na to thymitheis, opote i deontologia kai oi arxes
>> paraviazontai ki emeis adiaforoume sto telos tha tin plirwsoume.
>
>Mporeis na peis SYGKEKRIMENA gia poia parabiash ths thriskeias h ths
>deontologias milas?
Gia deontologia ta eipa sto proigoumeno minima, ta ksanalew kai parapanw.
Gia thriskeia profanws den exeis idea opote oti kai na sou pw xameno tha paei.
> Me poia sygkekrimenh praksh o Xristodoulos apekthse politikh kai
>oikonomikh dynamh antistoixh tou Papa anebokatebazontas kybernhseis,
>kanontas emporio oplwn(exei akoustei apo diaforetikes=mh
>ekklhsiastikes phges kai ayto),elegxontas tis kratikes mhxanes se
>polla krath klp
Den apektise. To opoio ton kanei eks'isou anithiko me ton Papa (se sxesi
me to oti den sevontai tin deontologia kai proorismo twn thesewn tous) alla
o dikos mas einai kai ftwxompines kathoti toulaxiston o Papas mia palia
epoxi elegxe ta mesa kai ta eksw enw o dikos mas ta rx/ tou ta dyo. Twra an
anikeis stin sxoli Mpourla pou oneiro exei na dei enan orthodokso ierarxi
na einai pio megalo kathiki apo tous Papikous, ti na pw? Paso.
> Erwthsh krisews:Giati h KGB ebale korious sto batikano kai den
>eballe sto Oikoumeniko patriarxeio h sthn elladikh ekklhsia?
Giati o Lakis einai ftwxompines kai mallon etsi tha meinei.
>(malista oi dyo teleytaies eixan POLY megalyterh epirroh sta
>thriskeytika pragmata ths rwssias)
> Hint:Mhpws o rolos tou pappa sthn ESSD htan politikos kai oxi
>thriskeytikos?
Nai. Ara? (re mpas kai eisai ... Mpourlikos?)
> Mhpws o Xristodoulos epikaleitai to alathito(tou Papa) kai den to
>phrame eidhsh?Ama deis kalytera tha diapistwseis oti OLES oi
>shmantikes apofaseis gia thn ekklhsia lambanontai SYLLOGIKA apo thn
>iera synodo(kapou 80 atoma) .Den tis pernei monos tou o
kai to Agio Pneyma 81.
>Xristodoulos.
>
>> Poia ekklisia re Giwrgo? Gia allon "swtira" prokeitai. Me moni diafora oti
>> einai mi eklegmenos ki oti den vgainei na anoiksei ki ena komma on the side
>> gia na kseroume pote milaei ws politkos kai pote ws ierarxis. Swtiras
>> travesti diladi.
>
>Polles sxeseis me trabesti blepw na exeis kai anyshxw.
>
paikse kati pou na pianeiiiiii
tin mesaia taksi Yanniiiiii
>> ---Anipsios
>>
o idios
>
>Theios
>Dionyshs
>
Dionyshs Papadopoulos
File o Xristodoulos ston agwna kata ton narkwtikwn proteinei stous neous
pio stenh sxesh me thn ekklhssia.Twra ola ta alla ta perierga pou les
pio panw einai alla logia na agapiomaste.
> Omoia kai me tis xamenes patrides klp klp. Einai xwrafia twn diplwmatwn,
> twn stratiwtikwn, tis kyvernisis, kai telika einai politiki apofasi to ti
> kanoume (n' den kanoume) gia tis xamenes patrides. Den einai DEON kai den
> einai i douleia tou na ekferei politikes theseis ws politikos apo mpalkoni.
Ama deis thn ellhnikh istoria tha deis oti PANTA h ekklhsia eixe
shmantiko rolo kai logo sthn eleytheria kai diathrhsh ths fysiognwmias
tou ethnous.Den einai bebaia o prwteywn rolos ths(oute o Xristodoulos
ton exei anagagei se prwto rolo) alla einai poly shmantikos.
Ena sou lew mono.Xwris ellhnismo den yparxei orthodoksia kai xwris
orthodoksia den menei ellhnas o ellhnas.Stelnw sth lista sxetikh
omilia tou xristodoulou me thema "orthodoksia kai ellhnismos"
PANTWS o Xristodoulos den eipe se kanenan TI na kanoume gia tis
xamenes patrides(ayto einai douleia twn politikwn).Apla ypenthymise
oti YPARXOUN.Esy ti problhma exeis me ayto?Mporeis na mas peis?
Kai sou epanalambanw.O PRWTOS rolos ths ekklhsias einai h
"diaswsh twn psyxwn" tou laou kai o Xristodoulos einai synephs
me thn ierarxhsh ayth.p.x. apo tis 10 omilies pou kanei oi 9
einai aysthra gia th xristianikh pisth kai h mia gia ton
ellhnismo kai thn poreia tou sto parelthon kai sto mellon.
Apla ta entypa pou diabazeis den proballoun tis 9 alla mono
th mia kai malista apo th mia mono 2-3 arades.
Oso gia ta erga phgaine konta se kammia enoria(an se endiaferei)
na deis an ekpaideyontai antartes :) h kalliergountai swstoi
xristianoi.Ama thes anoikse kai to radio stous 89.4 kai 91.2
(athina) gia na akouseis to ti pragmatika leei h ekklhsia
(mexri twra akous ti sou lene oti leei)
Telos des kai ta prohgoumena arthra mou gia ta syssitia se
aporous ,thn ierapostolh se olo ton kosmo klp
Kalo einai na blepoume OLO to ergo ths ekklhsias kai tou
"arxhgou" ths, tou Xristoudoulou.
> >Theleis mou fainetai mia
> >ekklhsia makrya apo ta koinwnika problhmata.Apokommenh apo to lao
> >Dystyxws omws gia kapoious o arxiepiskopos tha milaei kai ama den aresei
> >se kapoion as tou kanei SYGKEKRIMENH kritikh epi aytwn pou leei
> >(an exei na pei kati epi ths oysias).
> >
>
> Den sxoliazw tis politikes tou theseis gia ton aploustato logo oti den
> einai deon na pernaei politikes theseis apo to mpalkoni. Opoies ki an einai
> aytes oi theseis. To eixa pei ayto kai sto proigoumeno minima alla esy,
> eite giati eisai koutos eite giati paristaneis ton kouto, den katalavaineis.
Se ksanaprokalw na peis MIA aysthra politikh thesh tou Xristodoulou
> >
> >> Na sto pw kai pio apla: an kathe fora pou didaskw ta mystika tis
> >> kompioutas sti neolaia tis Kalifornias xalaw tin misi wra se asxeti me to
> >> mathima politikologia kai propaganda o poulos tha einai varys ki
> >> ameiliktos. Asxeta me to ti theseis pernaw ki asxeta me to an exw kalypsei
> >> tin yli etsi n' alliws. Apla ws thema arxwn kai deontologias.
> >
> >Afou den kanei kalo mathima o Xristodoulos(opws les) apolyse ton :)
>
> Poly tha'thela na tou kovontan o misthos kai ta symparomatrounta pou tou
> parexei o ellinas forologoumenos alla ti na kanoume pou sto
> koinovouleytiko mas mpaxalo poios tolmaei na xasei tis psifous twn pistwn...
Ma giati?Den eipame oti aytoi pou theloun na kopei kathe desmos
kratous ekklhsias einai h pleiopshfia tou ellhnikou laou?Ti fobaste
tote?
> >Eipame ,perimenw SYGKEKRIMENA poia einai ta propagandistika pou
> >leei o Xristodoulos.
> >
>
> Koita, epeidi teleiwse to quarter den tha pei oti exw kai xrono na
> analyoume tis omilies tou Laki (einai ligo pio hip ap'to "Xristodoulos",
> tou paei) grammi para grammi.
Ama den mporeis gia opoiodhpote logo na dikaiologeis SYGKEKRIMENA
ayta pou les mh milas.
> >> Eksakoloutheis na sfyrizeis amerimna otan sou eipa pro kairou oti o
> >> katheis eis to eidos tou ki o Loumidis stous kafedes ki otan o 40kos sou
> >> ypenthymizei ton rolo tis Ekklisias. To symperasma einai aplo: kaneis toses
> >> xaroules pou vrethike sto palko kapoios me theseis pou sou aresoun pou sta
> >> rx/ sou i paraviasi tis deontologias, sta rx/ sou kai i thriskeia, sta rx/
> >> sou kai to oti gia xronia legame gia ton kako ton Papa pou mpleketai me tin
> >> politiki. Alla, kai na to thymitheis, opote i deontologia kai oi arxes
> >> paraviazontai ki emeis adiaforoume sto telos tha tin plirwsoume.
> >
> >Mporeis na peis SYGKEKRIMENA gia poia parabiash ths thriskeias h ths
> >deontologias milas?
>
> Gia deontologia ta eipa sto proigoumeno minima, ta ksanalew kai parapanw.
> Gia thriskeia profanws den exeis idea opote oti kai na sou pw xameno tha paei.
Gia rikse mas ta fwta sou megale.Eipame h mila SUGKEKRIMENA h mh milas
To na leme genikologies einai eykolo.To na yposthrizoume ayta pou
leme einai to dyskolo.
> > Me poia sygkekrimenh praksh o Xristodoulos apekthse politikh kai
> >oikonomikh dynamh antistoixh tou Papa anebokatebazontas kybernhseis,
> >kanontas emporio oplwn(exei akoustei apo diaforetikes=mh
>
> >ekklhsiastikes phges kai ayto),elegxontas tis kratikes mhxanes se
> >polla krath klp
>
> Den apektise. To opoio ton kanei eks'isou anithiko me ton Papa (se sxesi
> me to oti den sevontai tin deontologia kai proorismo twn thesewn tous) alla
> o dikos mas einai kai ftwxompines kathoti toulaxiston o Papas mia palia
> epoxi elegxe ta mesa kai ta eksw enw o dikos mas ta rx/ tou ta dyo. Twra an
> anikeis stin sxoli Mpourla pou oneiro exei na dei enan orthodokso ierarxi
> na einai pio megalo kathiki apo tous Papikous, ti na pw? Paso.
De nomizw o feidias na oneireyetai na dei ton arxiepiskopo kathiki
(apo osa exw dei sth lista to antitheto symperainw)
Esy omws apodexesai oti o Xristodoulos einai "ftwxompines".Synepws
den exei oikonomikh dynamh.Pws loipon xwris fragga ginetai san ton
Papa?An den kanw lathos ayto erxetai se eytheia antithesh kai me ton
orismo tou papismou kai me ton kapitalismo(opou enas xwris fragga
menei katw kai ton patane).
Katalabe to giannh.H dynamh tou Xristodoulou einai HTHIKH kai oxi
oikonomikh.
> > Erwthsh krisews:Giati h KGB ebale korious sto batikano kai den
> >eballe sto Oikoumeniko patriarxeio h sthn elladikh ekklhsia?
>
> Giati o Lakis einai ftwxompines kai mallon etsi tha meinei.
Ara symfwneis oti den askei ton papismo...
> >(malista oi dyo teleytaies eixan POLY megalyterh epirroh sta
> >thriskeytika pragmata ths rwssias)
> > Hint:Mhpws o rolos tou pappa sthn ESSD htan politikos kai oxi
> >thriskeytikos?
>
> Nai. Ara? (re mpas kai eisai ... Mpourlikos?)
Yparxei kanena ideologiko reyma "Mpoyrlismos" kai to exasa?
An symfwnw me to Mpourla mprabo tou kai mprabo mou.Poio einai to
problhma sou? Mpas kai einai kai ayto plektanh tou Xristodoulou?
> > Mhpws o Xristodoulos epikaleitai to alathito(tou Papa) kai den to
> >phrame eidhsh?Ama deis kalytera tha diapistwseis oti OLES oi
> >shmantikes apofaseis gia thn ekklhsia lambanontai SYLLOGIKA apo thn
> >iera synodo(kapou 80 atoma) .Den tis pernei monos tou o
>
> kai to Agio Pneyma 81.
Gia na sou thymisw ,Papismos = alathito tou papa= o Papas apofasizei
kai oi alloi akolouthoun.
Oso gia to Agio Pneyma ti to pianeis sto stoma sou?H pisteyeis oti
yparxei h oxi.Pros ti ta logopaignia?
> >Xristodoulos.
> >
> >> Poia ekklisia re Giwrgo? Gia allon "swtira" prokeitai. Me moni diafora oti
> >> einai mi eklegmenos ki oti den vgainei na anoiksei ki ena komma on the side
> >> gia na kseroume pote milaei ws politkos kai pote ws ierarxis. Swtiras
> >> travesti diladi.
> >
> >Polles sxeseis me trabesti blepw na exeis kai anyshxw.
> >
>
> paikse kati pou na pianeiiiiii
> tin mesaia taksi Yanniiiiii
Profanws to poihmataki to les gia sena.ESENA se lene giannh.Emena
me lene dionysh :)
Dionyshs
Lamprini Thoma
At 10:16 ðì 26/6/1998 +0300, Dionyshs Papadopoulos wrote:
>File o Xristodoulos ston agwna kata ton narkwtikwn proteinei stous neous
>pio stenh sxesh me thn ekklhssia.Twra ola ta alla ta perierga pou les
>pio panw einai alla logia na agapiomaste.
>
Re sy Dionysh exeis dei pote Prezoni? Ante systhse toy pio stenh sxesh me
thn ekklhsia
ki ela na moy peis ti soy apanthse.
O Xristodoylos mporei na 0ewrei th sxesh me thn Ekklhsia
(ki isws me opoiadhpote 0rhskeia, plhn ths Rastafari] prolhptikh ths xrhshs
malakwn .h. sklhrwn,
alla ayto, agorina moy, den einai 0erapeia, oyte boh0a ta hdh prezonia.
0a mporoyse na milhsei gia Oikogeneia akomh, akomh, sto 0ema .h. xilia dyo
alla to idio genika ki aorista.
Anyway, proswpikws den pei0omai akomh [an kai einai o Arxiepiskopos moy, exw
to kako synh0eio,
opws didaskei h Ekklhsiastikh Istoria allwste, na ton krinw]
gia tis pantelws aga0es toy pro0eseis.
Ayta ta la.i.kistika me t aeroplana [an den to anakoinwne h arxiepiskoph,
0a asxoloyntan kaneis me to aeroplano toy Arxiepiskopoy? Asxolh0hke pote? As
eimaste sobaroi...]
den einai sobara pragmata pantws.
H tapeinwsh den anakoinwnetai me deltia typoy, IMO kai allwn poly
megalyterwn apo mena.
>Ama deis thn ellhnikh istoria tha deis oti PANTA h ekklhsia eixe
>shmantiko rolo kai logo sthn eleytheria kai diathrhsh ths fysiognwmias
>tou ethnous.Den einai bebaia o prwteywn rolos ths(oute o Xristodoulos
>>ton exei anagagei se prwto rolo) alla einai poly shmantikos.
Ws thn aposxish ths Ekklhsias ths Ellados kai to Aytokefalo
[3ereis ti einai sxisma me to Patriarxeio elpizw]
opote kai paredwse ta opla stoys bayaro0remmenoys protestantizontes, leei h
ellhnikh istoria.
Ki epeidh den eimaste e0nos alla genos (KOYTALEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!),
kane ena kopo na ri3eis mia matia sthn katastrofh ths fysiognwmias toy Genoys
poy ephl0e apo ayto to aytokefalo.
>Ena sou lew mono.Xwris ellhnismo den yparxei orthodoksia kai xwris
>orthodoksia den menei ellhnas o ellhnas.
Xwris or0odo3ia den orizetai Ellhnas, s ayto symfwnw [proswpikh apoch]
alla oti xwris Ellhnes den 0a yparxei or0odo3ia e, mE fainetai karntash
oligon asxeto na to les,
dioti exei kai Rwsoi, kai Slaboi, kai Gewrgianoi, exei ap ola, legete!
> > Mhpws o Xristodoulos epikaleitai to alathito(tou Papa) kai den to
> >phrame eidhsh?Ama deis kalytera tha diapistwseis oti OLES oi
> >shmantikes apofaseis gia thn ekklhsia lambanontai SYLLOGIKA apo thn
> >iera synodo(kapou 80 atoma) .Den tis pernei monos tou o
>
> kai to Agio Pneyma 81.
"To Pneyma opoy 0elei pnei", neos. Kai h istoria mas einai gemath paradeigmata
aneprokopwn Ierarxwn -oso einai gemath kai me Agioys.
O Markos o Eygenikos htan monos toy, oloi oi alloi ypegracan Enwshme toyw
Papikoys.
Poy htan to Agio Pneyma, pallhkari moy?
Mhn "erwteyesai" ton arxiepiskopo, dioti arneisai thn Ekklhsia etsi..
H prwsopolatreia poy epideiknyeis einai antiekklhsiastikh.
>Dionyshs
rL
in-oi andres de miloyn poly-mode
Yannis Papakonstantinou
At 10:16 AM 6/26/98 +0300, you wrote:
>Yannis Papakonstantinou wrote:
>>
>> At 12:51 PM 6/25/98 +0300, Dionyshs Papadopoulos wrote:
>> >
>> >Poies einai oi politikes theseis?Oi theseis tou gia ta narkwtika?
>> >Gia to ratsismo?Gia thn ethnikh epagrypnhsh?
>>
>> Ela re Dionysi, min kaneis ton kouto twra... Ante na ta paroume ena-ena ti
>> einai politiki thesi kai ti den einai.
>> Narkwtika: To na parotryneis to poimnio (pote den tin xwnepsa aytin tin
>> leksi, alla telos pantwn) na meinei makria apo ta narkwtika kai na tou
>> dwseis enallaktikes profanws den einai politiki thesi alla einai koinwniki
>> syneisfora tis Ekklisias. (Prospernaw to oti o Marios kanei thema an o
>> koinwnikos rolos tis Ekklisias prepei na exei tetois prwteyousa thesi giati
>> einai dyskoli kai maliari syzitisi kai kathoti nteforme protimw na synexisw
>> me sena pou les xontromalakies pou apantiountai eykola ki anevazw akopa
>> tous pontous mou sto prwtathlima xwris kan na xreiastei pros to paron na
>> piasw ta maura korakia tou Mountial.)
>> Twra, an ston agwna gia ta narkwtika o Xristodoulos proteinei, kserw'gw,
>> parakolouthisi tilefwnikwn grammwn tote poly kakws giati ayta einai xwrafia
>> dikastwn, syntagmatologwn ki en telei apofasi nomiki kai politiki (o X den
>> eipe kati tetoio kai to paradeigma einai gia na katalavei o Dionysis pou
>> kanei ton kouto.)
>
>pio stenh sxesh me thn ekklhssia.Twra ola ta alla ta perierga pou les
>pio panw einai alla logia na agapiomaste.
>
Grafw n' den grafw parapanw oti ayto einai paradeigma gia na katalavei "o
Dionysis pou kanei ton kouto" ?
>> Omoia kai me tis xamenes patrides klp klp. Einai xwrafia twn diplwmatwn,
>> twn stratiwtikwn, tis kyvernisis, kai telika einai politiki apofasi to ti
>> kanoume (n' den kanoume) gia tis xamenes patrides. Den einai DEON kai den
>> einai i douleia tou na ekferei politikes theseis ws politikos apo mpalkoni.
>
>Ama deis thn ellhnikh istoria tha deis oti PANTA h ekklhsia eixe
>shmantiko rolo kai logo sthn eleytheria kai diathrhsh ths fysiognwmias
>tou ethnous?
Loipon, entexna kai me fanfara mou les oti kala kanei kai pataei tin
grammi tou diaxwrismou kratous-ekklisias giati ayto einai katestimeni
praktiki tis Ellinikis ekklisias gia wfeleia tou ethnous. En oligois, poios
tin gamei tin deontologia...
>Den einai bebaia o prwteywn rolos ths(oute o Xristodoulos
>ton exei anagagei se prwto rolo) alla einai poly shmantikos.
>Ena sou lew mono.Xwris ellhnismo den yparxei orthodoksia kai xwris
oi Rwsoi kai oi Athiopes ti einai?
>orthodoksia den menei ellhnas o ellhnas.Stelnw sth lista sxetikh
Eksartatai pws to orizeis. (Ena vivlio pou legetai Syntagma to exeis
akousta?)
>omilia tou xristodoulou me thema "orthodoksia kai ellhnismos"
>PANTWS o Xristodoulos den eipe se kanenan TI na kanoume gia tis
>xamenes patrides(ayto einai douleia twn politikwn).Apla ypenthymise
>oti YPARXOUN.Esy ti problhma exeis me ayto?Mporeis na mas peis?
>Kai sou epanalambanw.O PRWTOS rolos ths ekklhsias einai h
>"diaswsh twn psyxwn" tou laou kai o Xristodoulos einai synephs
>me thn ierarxhsh ayth.p.x. apo tis 10 omilies pou kanei oi 9
>einai aysthra gia th xristianikh pisth kai h mia gia ton
>ellhnismo kai thn poreia tou sto parelthon kai sto mellon.
>Apla ta entypa pou diabazeis den proballoun tis 9 alla mono
>th mia kai malista apo th mia mono 2-3 arades.
Oligon egkyos diladi.
> Oso gia ta erga phgaine konta se kammia enoria(an se endiaferei)
>na deis an ekpaideyontai antartes :) h kalliergountai swstoi
>xristianoi.Ama thes anoikse kai to radio stous 89.4 kai 91.2
>(athina) gia na akouseis to ti pragmatika leei h ekklhsia
>(mexri twra akous ti sou lene oti leei)
> Telos des kai ta prohgoumena arthra mou gia ta syssitia se
>aporous ,thn ierapostolh se olo ton kosmo klp
> Kalo einai na blepoume OLO to ergo ths ekklhsias kai tou
>"arxhgou" ths, tou Xristoudoulou.
>
ayta pou kollane me to thema tou an einai deontologiko na exei politikes
theseis? Diladi ti mas les? Kalo kai drastirio paidi o Lakis, as tou
xarisoume kai dyo penaltys.
>
>Se ksanaprokalw na peis MIA aysthra politikh thesh tou Xristodoulou
>
Ma ta eipame ayta. Kapsalo-livanisma, tsigklisma gia xamenes patrides, ki
olo kai kati kainourgio ksefournizei kathe toso. (Oxi, exw ki alles
douleies apo to na ypogrammizw komatia apo omilies tou Laki. Na min
sygxwrei i afentia sou. Se parapempw se oti exw dei sta media mono ki
elpizw na MIN exw paradeigmata na sou dwsw sto mellon an kai dyskolo mou
fainetai.)
>>
>> Poly tha'thela na tou kovontan o misthos kai ta symparomatrounta pou tou
>> parexei o ellinas forologoumenos alla ti na kanoume pou sto
>> koinovouleytiko mas mpaxalo poios tolmaei na xasei tis psifous twn
pistwn...
>
>Ma giati?Den eipame oti aytoi pou theloun na kopei kathe desmos
>kratous ekklhsias einai h pleiopshfia tou ellhnikou laou?
Oxi.
>Ti fobaste tote?
>
Oti tha ksanapeis provokatorikes malakismenes erwtiseis ;-)
>> > Me poia sygkekrimenh praksh o Xristodoulos apekthse politikh kai
>> >oikonomikh dynamh antistoixh tou Papa anebokatebazontas kybernhseis,
>> >kanontas emporio oplwn(exei akoustei apo diaforetikes=mh
>>
>> >ekklhsiastikes phges kai ayto),elegxontas tis kratikes mhxanes se
>> >polla krath klp
>>
>> Den apektise. To opoio ton kanei eks'isou anithiko me ton Papa (se sxesi
>> me to oti den sevontai tin deontologia kai proorismo twn thesewn tous) alla
>> o dikos mas einai kai ftwxompines kathoti toulaxiston o Papas mia palia
>> epoxi elegxe ta mesa kai ta eksw enw o dikos mas ta rx/ tou ta dyo. Twra an
>> anikeis stin sxoli Mpourla pou oneiro exei na dei enan orthodokso ierarxi
>> na einai pio megalo kathiki apo tous Papikous, ti na pw? Paso.
>
>De nomizw o feidias na oneireyetai na dei ton arxiepiskopo kathiki
>(apo osa exw dei sth lista to antitheto symperainw)
>Esy omws apodexesai oti o Xristodoulos einai "ftwxompines".Synepws
absolument.
>den exei oikonomikh dynamh.Pws loipon xwris fragga ginetai san ton
>Papa?
kai poios eipe oti ginetai/egine san ton Papa? Enas ftwxompines wannabe
Papas einai. Diladi an o mpakalis tis Anw Katsikoraxis efarmosei
monopwliakes praktikes kai stipsei gia kana mina tous Katsikoraxites tha
exei ginei ... Gates? Min trelainesai.
>An den kanw lathos ayto erxetai se eytheia antithesh kai me ton
>orismo tou papismou kai me ton kapitalismo(opou enas xwris fragga
>menei katw kai ton patane).
> Katalabe to giannh.H dynamh tou Xristodoulou einai HTHIKH kai oxi
>oikonomikh.
Ase re paixti. Gia tin ithiki ta eipame idi.
>
>> > Erwthsh krisews:Giati h KGB ebale korious sto batikano kai den
>> >eballe sto Oikoumeniko patriarxeio h sthn elladikh ekklhsia?
>>
>> Giati o Lakis einai ftwxompines kai mallon etsi tha meinei.
>
>Ara symfwneis oti den askei ton papismo...
>
thelei alla den mporei
>> >(malista oi dyo teleytaies eixan POLY megalyterh epirroh sta
>> >thriskeytika pragmata ths rwssias)
>> > Hint:Mhpws o rolos tou pappa sthn ESSD htan politikos kai oxi
>> >thriskeytikos?
>>
>> Nai. Ara? (re mpas kai eisai ... Mpourlikos?)
>
>Yparxei kanena ideologiko reyma "Mpoyrlismos" kai to exasa?
>An symfwnw me to Mpourla mprabo tou kai mprabo mou.Poio einai to
>problhma sou? Mpas kai einai kai ayto plektanh tou Xristodoulou?
>
O Mpourlas proypirxe. Plirofories oti o Xristodoulismos einai kataskeyasma
tou Mprourlismou thewrountai ypervolikes :)
>> > Mhpws o Xristodoulos epikaleitai to alathito(tou Papa) kai den to
>> >phrame eidhsh?Ama deis kalytera tha diapistwseis oti OLES oi
>> >shmantikes apofaseis gia thn ekklhsia lambanontai SYLLOGIKA apo thn
>> >iera synodo(kapou 80 atoma) .Den tis pernei monos tou o
>>
>> kai to Agio Pneyma 81.
>
>Gia na sou thymisw ,Papismos = alathito tou papa= o Papas apofasizei
>kai oi alloi akolouthoun.
>Oso gia to Agio Pneyma ti to pianeis sto stoma sou?H pisteyeis oti
>yparxei h oxi.Pros ti ta logopaignia?
giati metexei stis apofaseis kai to ksexases.
>
>> >Polles sxeseis me trabesti blepw na exeis kai anyshxw.
>> >
>>
>> paikse kati pou na pianeiiiiii
>> tin mesaia taksi Yanniiiiii
>
>Profanws to poihmataki to les gia sena.ESENA se lene giannh.Emena
>me lene dionysh :)
>
(refrain)
---Anipsios
>
>Dionyshs
>
Yannis Papakonstantinou
Dionysi,
Pare game plan giati i amyna mpazei apo orthodoksa, anorthodoksa kai
katholika:
1. Kane pws den to eides to parakatw kai apefyge skliro ektos edras
paixnidi se ekklisiastika.
2. Piase to diko mou to minima kai ksanagrapse na sou ypogrammisw ta
kommatia apo tis omilies tou Laki.
3. Steile panigiriko oti den exoun idea peri Laki oi antilakistes kai
arakse gia Vrazilia-Xili pou den einai apithano na ginei kamia gkela.
---Anipsios
(*) re koumpara, me to malako ta orthodoksa pirpitsolia
At 11:37 AM 6/26/98 +0300, Lamprini Thoma wrote:
>At 10:16 ðì 26/6/1998 +0300, Dionyshs Papadopoulos wrote:
>
>>File o Xristodoulos ston agwna kata ton narkwtikwn proteinei stous neous
>>pio stenh sxesh me thn ekklhssia.Twra ola ta alla ta perierga pou les
>>pio panw einai alla logia na agapiomaste.
>>
>
>Re sy Dionysh exeis dei pote Prezoni? Ante systhse toy pio stenh sxesh me
>thn ekklhsia
>ki ela na moy peis ti soy apanthse.
>O Xristodoylos mporei na 0ewrei th sxesh me thn Ekklhsia
> (ki isws me opoiadhpote 0rhskeia, plhn ths Rastafari] prolhptikh ths xrhshs
>malakwn .h. sklhrwn,
>alla ayto, agorina moy, den einai 0erapeia, oyte boh0a ta hdh prezonia.
> 0a mporoyse na milhsei gia Oikogeneia akomh, akomh, sto 0ema .h. xilia dyo
>alla to idio genika ki aorista.
>Anyway, proswpikws den pei0omai akomh [an kai einai o Arxiepiskopos moy, exw
>to kako synh0eio,
>opws didaskei h Ekklhsiastikh Istoria allwste, na ton krinw]
> gia tis pantelws aga0es toy pro0eseis.
>Ayta ta la.i.kistika me t aeroplana [an den to anakoinwne h arxiepiskoph,
>0a asxoloyntan kaneis me to aeroplano toy Arxiepiskopoy? Asxolh0hke pote? As
>eimaste sobaroi...]
>den einai sobara pragmata pantws.
>H tapeinwsh den anakoinwnetai me deltia typoy, IMO kai allwn poly
>megalyterwn apo mena.
>
>
>>Ama deis thn ellhnikh istoria tha deis oti PANTA h ekklhsia eixe
>>shmantiko rolo kai logo sthn eleytheria kai diathrhsh ths fysiognwmias
>>tou ethnous.Den einai bebaia o prwteywn rolos ths(oute o Xristodoulos
>>>ton exei anagagei se prwto rolo) alla einai poly shmantikos.
>
>Ws thn aposxish ths Ekklhsias ths Ellados kai to Aytokefalo
> [3ereis ti einai sxisma me to Patriarxeio elpizw]
>opote kai paredwse ta opla stoys bayaro0remmenoys protestantizontes, leei h
>ellhnikh istoria.
>Ki epeidh den eimaste e0nos alla genos (KOYTALEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!),
>kane ena kopo na ri3eis mia matia sthn katastrofh ths fysiognwmias toy Genoys
> poy ephl0e apo ayto to aytokefalo.
>
>
>>Ena sou lew mono.Xwris ellhnismo den yparxei orthodoksia kai xwris
>>orthodoksia den menei ellhnas o ellhnas.
>
>
>Xwris or0odo3ia den orizetai Ellhnas, s ayto symfwnw [proswpikh apoch]
>alla oti xwris Ellhnes den 0a yparxei or0odo3ia e, mE fainetai karntash
>oligon asxeto na to les,
> dioti exei kai Rwsoi, kai Slaboi, kai Gewrgianoi, exei ap ola, legete!
>
>> > Mhpws o Xristodoulos epikaleitai to alathito(tou Papa) kai den to
>> >phrame eidhsh?Ama deis kalytera tha diapistwseis oti OLES oi
>> >shmantikes apofaseis gia thn ekklhsia lambanontai SYLLOGIKA apo thn
>> >iera synodo(kapou 80 atoma) .Den tis pernei monos tou o
>>
>> kai to Agio Pneyma 81.
>
>
George Bobolos
Pame gera !!! :-)
>>Ekeivo omws pou, egw toulaxistov, dev katalabaivw, eivai giati exete oloi
>>fagw8ei me tov Xristodoulo. Ki' o Serafeim de3ios (de3iotatos malista)
>>ntav, dev 8umamai omws kavevav va tov eixe katngornsei gia ta politika
tou
>>pisteuw.
> Giwrgo,
> eteron ekateron: o politis Xristodoulos einai eleytheros na exei oti
> apopsi thelei, na psifizei oti thelei, kai na syzitaei me tous filous tou
> oti thelei. Ayto pou den einai symfwno me tin thesi tou einai to oti
> xrisimopoiei tin thesi tou ws Arxierea gia na perasei politikes theseis
se
> mazes kai na organwsei kat'ousian politikes sygkentrwseis.
Poios kavei, re Giavvn, politikes sugkevtrwseis ??? Epeidn, dnladn, otav
episkeftnke tnv Ikaria kai tous Fourvous (aln8eia, posoi kai poioi
politikoi mas exouv paei stous Fourvous), meta3u allwv tous milnse kai gia
tnv katagwgn tous kai avafer8nke stis "xameves patrides", auto ntav
politikn sugkevtrwsn ??? Ti tous eipe, va parouv ta opla kai va kavouv vtou
stnv Tourkia ??? Na mnv tis 3exvave tous eipe, opws to leme OLOI mas ka8e
mera. Kai eixe ki' eva logo parapavw va to pei, epeidn ki' autos eivai
prosfugas ap' tnv Mikra Asia !!! H' mnpws dev eprepe va eivai ?????
Htav mnpws politikos o logos tou kata tnv diarkeia tou opoiou avafer8nke
stnv "eirnvikn epavastasn" (alla pali, gia va milaei gia "epavastasn", dev
mporei, sigoura politiologouse), n' mnpws pervouse stov kosmo politikes
8eseis otav milouse gia tnv mastiga twv varkwtikwv kai tous tropous me tous
opoious 8a prepei va ta avtimetwpisoume me tnv bon8eia tns ekklnsias ?????
> Na sto pw kai pio apla: an kathe fora pou didaskw ta mystika tis
> kompioutas sti neolaia tis Kalifornias xalaw tin misi wra se asxeti me to
> mathima politikologia kai propaganda o poulos tha einai varys ki
> ameiliktos. Asxeta me to ti theseis pernaw ki asxeta me to an exw
kalypsei
> tin yli etsi n' alliws. Apla ws thema arxwn kai deontologias.
To paradeigma sou Giavvn eivai evtelws asxeto kai astoxo.
> Eksakoloutheis na sfyrizeis amerimna otan sou eipa pro kairou oti o
> katheis eis to eidos tou ki o Loumidis stous kafedes ki otan o 40kos sou
> ypenthymizei ton rolo tis Ekklisias. To symperasma einai aplo: kaneis
toses
> xaroules pou vrethike sto palko kapoios me theseis pou sou aresoun pou
sta
> rx/ sou i paraviasi tis deontologias, sta rx/ sou kai i thriskeia, sta
rx/
> sou kai to oti gia xronia legame gia ton kako ton Papa pou mpleketai me
tin
> politiki. Alla, kai na to thymitheis, opote i deontologia kai oi arxes
> paraviazontai ki emeis adiaforoume sto telos tha tin plirwsoume.
Parabiasn deovotologias ?!?!?!?! Pavagia mou !!! M' afnses afwvo twra. Sav
poias deovtologias va poume dnladn re Giavvn ??? Uparxei kammia deovtologia
pou va leei, dnladn, oti o arxiepiskopos apagoreuetai v' asxoleitai me ta
koiva ??? Pote, poios tnv orise kai giati ??? Ma ti leme twra .....
>>Ki' o Serafeim eixe kavei, kata kairous, dnlwseis, dev 8umamai
>>omws va eixe avtidrasei kaveis. Edw eixe orkisei tnv "kubervnsn" Iwavvidn
>>kai kaveis dev eipe koubevta, oute tote, oute argotera.
>>Ti eivai, loipov, auto, pou kavei tov Xristodoulo, avtipa8n se kapoio
kosmo
>>(poiov kosmo, dnladn, se elaxistous, av laboume up' oyiv ta gallops pou
tov
>>fervouv prwto se dnmotikotnta) ??? AUTO ARKIBWS !!! To gegovos, dnladn,
oti
>>meta apo POLLA xrovia, evas av8rwpos tns ekklnsias 8ewreitai ws o pleov
>>dnmofilns Ellnvas politns. Kai tautoxrova, to gegovos oti autos o
av8rwpos
>>tns ekklnsias, fervei stnv epifaveia 8emata ta opoia, evtexvws,
briskovtav
>>mexri twra stov pato.
> Ase re Giwrgo. De trouth xaz mpin rivilnt... Na ton valoume sta X-Files
2.
Kala, kala ......
>>Milnse o Xristodoulos gia xameves patrides prox8es
>>stnv Ikaria kai xeirokrtouse me pa8os OLOS o kosmos. E, av auto eseva
Abdul
>>mou se peirazei, ti 8es va kavoume twra, ESU mn xeirokrotas ama dev
8eleis
>>... Eixe paei tis proalles sta sxoleia kai, afou suzntnse me ta paidia,
>>tous xarise apo mia Agia Grafn. Toso kako ntav ki' auto ??? E, opoios dev
>>tnv n8ele, as tnv petage meta sta skoupidia. Ki' alla polla .....
>>Kai gia va teleiwvw. H ellnvikn koivwvia, magkes, kourasmevn tosa xrovia
>>ap' tous diaforous "swtnres", faivetai pws 3avagurvaei kovta stnv
ekklnsia.
>>giwrgos
> Poia ekklisia re Giwrgo? Gia allon "swtira" prokeitai. Me moni diafora
oti
> einai mi eklegmenos ki oti den vgainei na anoiksei ki ena komma on the
side
> gia na kseroume pote milaei ws politkos kai pote ws ierarxis. Swtiras
> travesti diladi.
Exeis pa8ei mia elafra sugxisn Giavvn kai dev mporw va katalabw to giati.
Giati dnladn, se peirazei, pou o proka8nmevos tns ekklnsias asxoleitai me
8emata me ta opoia asxoleitai OLOS o kosmos ?? H' mnpws dev asxoloumaste
me ta varkwtika, tis sxeseis mas me tous Tourkous, tnv katastasn sta
sxoleia k.l.p. Tosa xrovia fwvazame oti n ekklnsia eivai makrua ap' tov
lao, twra pou apofasise va bre8ei kovta stov lao, giati fwvazoume pali
????? Gia pes mou .....
> ---Anipsios
giwrgos
Christos Papadas
Dev afnveis tis kotsaves re koumpara pou tolmas va
amfisbnteis kai tnv tapeivofrosuvn tou Arxiepiskopou, esu
pou parea me to Favariwtiko skuloloi etoimazate
Rwmaikes upodoxes stov malaka tov Bartholomaio,
apovomes, afi3eis me kotera klp klp. Stn trella sas malista
givate prosblntikoi kai stous allous patriarxes twv eleu0erwv
Patriarxeiwv me geloiotntes opws...xamnloteres karekles
gi'autous, gurw apo tov Bartholomaio, epibibasn tou se
kotero apo tous upoloipous, ligo pro tns afi3ews sto limavi, opou
eprepe va exei apokleistiko xaraxtnra gia tov Bartholomaio n
Rwmaikn upodoxn, klp klp.
As milnsouv oloi gia metriofosuvn alla oxi kai...eseis!!! Eleos!
Kitsos
ug: Ti egive koumpara, sas tsouzei to OXI tou ELLHNA
Arxiepiskopou stnv epi0umia va avoi3ete oi favariwtes
"grafeio" (giati arage??) stnv Ellada???
Christos Papadas
Epeidn mou efage duo le3eis o editor apo to
prongoumevo va 3eka0arisw ti evvousa stnv
istoria me to kotero. Hsav oloi oi Orthodo3oi
Patriarxes mazi, kai ligo pro tns afi3ews ebalav
tov Bartholomaio se allo kotero (!) wste va apobibas0ei
movos kai va eivai apoleistika autos to 0ema tns
Rwmaikns upodoxns!!! Aisxn Favariwtika alla kai
twv pemptofallagitwv pou diatnrouv stnv Ellada.
Kitsos
Dionyshs Papadopoulos
Ama katalabainei kapoios ti ennoei o Giannhs na me diafwtisei ki emena
ton kouto.Telika ekane o X. olisthima me ta narkwtika nai h ou?
> >> Omoia kai me tis xamenes patrides klp klp. Einai xwrafia twn diplwmatwn,
> >> twn stratiwtikwn, tis kyvernisis, kai telika einai politiki apofasi to ti
> >> kanoume (n' den kanoume) gia tis xamenes patrides. Den einai DEON kai den
> >> einai i douleia tou na ekferei politikes theseis ws politikos apo mpalkoni.
> >
> >Ama deis thn ellhnikh istoria tha deis oti PANTA h ekklhsia eixe
> >shmantiko rolo kai logo sthn eleytheria kai diathrhsh ths fysiognwmias
> >tou ethnous?
>
> Loipon, entexna kai me fanfara mou les oti kala kanei kai pataei tin
> grammi tou diaxwrismou kratous-ekklisias giati ayto einai katestimeni
> praktiki tis Ellinikis ekklisias gia wfeleia tou ethnous. En oligois, poios
> tin gamei tin deontologia...
Ayth einai dikh sou deontologia(monos sou thn eyfyvres kai de mas les
kai ti perilambanei h deontologia ayth.p.x. ton antinarkwtiko agwna
pio panw ton bazeis mesa sthn deontologia ayth?)
An thes na mpeis sthn ousia aytou pou lew kytta thn ellhnikh istoria
kai des pou tha eimaste twra an h ekklhsia akoyge fwnes san th dikh sou
(pou PANTA yphrxan kai elegan oti pleon exoume "proodeysei" kai prepei
h ekklhsia na stamathsei na anakatwnetai sta koinwnika themata)
Dystyxws nee mou de tha hsouna shmera sto amerika alla tha hsouna
giousoufaki.H sthn kalyterh periptwsh tha eboskes ta probata tou
oikeiou ... Pasa
> >Den einai bebaia o prwteywn rolos ths(oute o Xristodoulos
> >ton exei anagagei se prwto rolo) alla einai poly shmantikos.
> >Ena sou lew mono.Xwris ellhnismo den yparxei orthodoksia kai xwris
>
> oi Rwsoi kai oi Athiopes ti einai?
Edw exeis dikio.H orthodoksia tha zhsei kai xwris tous ellhnes.
> >orthodoksia den menei ellhnas o ellhnas.Stelnw sth lista sxetikh
>
> Eksartatai pws to orizeis. (Ena vivlio pou legetai Syntagma to exeis
> akousta?)
Ksanadiabase to to biblio ayto pou les kai pes mou pou katariptei ayto
pou sou eipa
> >omilia tou xristodoulou me thema "orthodoksia kai ellhnismos"
> >PANTWS o Xristodoulos den eipe se kanenan TI na kanoume gia tis
> >xamenes patrides(ayto einai douleia twn politikwn).Apla ypenthymise
> >oti YPARXOUN.Esy ti problhma exeis me ayto?Mporeis na mas peis?
> >Kai sou epanalambanw.O PRWTOS rolos ths ekklhsias einai h
> >"diaswsh twn psyxwn" tou laou kai o Xristodoulos einai synephs
> >me thn ierarxhsh ayth.p.x. apo tis 10 omilies pou kanei oi 9
>
> >einai aysthra gia th xristianikh pisth kai h mia gia ton
> >ellhnismo kai thn poreia tou sto parelthon kai sto mellon.
> >Apla ta entypa pou diabazeis den proballoun tis 9 alla mono
> >th mia kai malista apo th mia mono 2-3 arades.
>
> Oligon egkyos diladi.
Poios einai eggyos?Se poio mhna?
Ti les bre?
> > Oso gia ta erga phgaine konta se kammia enoria(an se endiaferei)
> >na deis an ekpaideyontai antartes :) h kalliergountai swstoi
> >xristianoi.Ama thes anoikse kai to radio stous 89.4 kai 91.2
> >(athina) gia na akouseis to ti pragmatika leei h ekklhsia
> >(mexri twra akous ti sou lene oti leei)
> > Telos des kai ta prohgoumena arthra mou gia ta syssitia se
> >aporous ,thn ierapostolh se olo ton kosmo klp
> > Kalo einai na blepoume OLO to ergo ths ekklhsias kai tou
> >"arxhgou" ths, tou Xristoudoulou.
> >
>
> ayta pou kollane me to thema tou an einai deontologiko na exei politikes
> theseis? Diladi ti mas les? Kalo kai drastirio paidi o Lakis, as tou
> xarisoume kai dyo penaltys.
Kollane sto poia einai h KYRIA apasxolhsh tou Xristodoulou,alla
kaneis pws den to katalabaineis.
> >
> >Se ksanaprokalw na peis MIA aysthra politikh thesh tou Xristodoulou
> >
>
> Ma ta eipame ayta. Kapsalo-livanisma, tsigklisma gia xamenes patrides, ki
> olo kai kati kainourgio ksefournizei kathe toso. (Oxi, exw ki alles
> douleies apo to na ypogrammizw komatia apo omilies tou Laki. Na min
> sygxwrei i afentia sou. Se parapempw se oti exw dei sta media mono ki
> elpizw na MIN exw paradeigmata na sou dwsw sto mellon an kai dyskolo mou
> fainetai.)
MA kala milas xwris na diabaseis ayta pou grafw?Des ksana ta legomena
mou.
> >>
> >> Poly tha'thela na tou kovontan o misthos kai ta symparomatrounta pou tou
> >> parexei o ellinas forologoumenos alla ti na kanoume pou sto
> >> koinovouleytiko mas mpaxalo poios tolmaei na xasei tis psifous twn
> pistwn...
> >
> >Ma giati?Den eipame oti aytoi pou theloun na kopei kathe desmos
> >kratous ekklhsias einai h pleiopshfia tou ellhnikou laou?
>
> Oxi.
Pali kala pou symfwnoume se kati
> >Ti fobaste tote?
> >
>
> Oti tha ksanapeis provokatorikes malakismenes erwtiseis ;-)
Alla edw mou ta ksanagyrizeis.Giati einai probokatorikh h erwthsh?
Kante dhmopshfisma na deite an thelei o laos xwrismo.Esy ti
pisteyeis?Thelei?
> >> > Me poia sygkekrimenh praksh o Xristodoulos apekthse politikh kai
> >> >oikonomikh dynamh antistoixh tou Papa anebokatebazontas kybernhseis,
> >> >kanontas emporio oplwn(exei akoustei apo diaforetikes=mh
> >>
> >> >ekklhsiastikes phges kai ayto),elegxontas tis kratikes mhxanes se
> >> >polla krath klp
> >>
> >> Den apektise. To opoio ton kanei eks'isou anithiko me ton Papa (se sxesi
> >> me to oti den sevontai tin deontologia kai proorismo twn thesewn tous) alla
> >> o dikos mas einai kai ftwxompines kathoti toulaxiston o Papas mia palia
> >> epoxi elegxe ta mesa kai ta eksw enw o dikos mas ta rx/ tou ta dyo. Twra an
> >> anikeis stin sxoli Mpourla pou oneiro exei na dei enan orthodokso ierarxi
> >> na einai pio megalo kathiki apo tous Papikous, ti na pw? Paso.
> >
> >De nomizw o feidias na oneireyetai na dei ton arxiepiskopo kathiki
> >(apo osa exw dei sth lista to antitheto symperainw)
> >Esy omws apodexesai oti o Xristodoulos einai "ftwxompines".Synepws
>
> absolument.
>
> >den exei oikonomikh dynamh.Pws loipon xwris fragga ginetai san ton
> >Papa?
>
> kai poios eipe oti ginetai/egine san ton Papa? Enas ftwxompines wannabe
> Papas einai. Diladi an o mpakalis tis Anw Katsikoraxis efarmosei
> monopwliakes praktikes kai stipsei gia kana mina tous Katsikoraxites tha
> exei ginei ... Gates? Min trelainesai.
Prosexe ,edw ton les "ftwxompine".Mh mou peis argotera gia thn
"terastia ekklhsiastikh periousia,tous papades pou trwne me 10
maselles" klp.Oxi opote theloume ftwxo(ka)mpines kai opote
theloume me terasties periousies.
Akomh perimenw pantws tis antistoixies me ton Papa.(sygkekrimenes
prakseis)
> >An den kanw lathos ayto erxetai se eytheia antithesh kai me ton
> >orismo tou papismou kai me ton kapitalismo(opou enas xwris fragga
> >menei katw kai ton patane).
> > Katalabe to giannh.H dynamh tou Xristodoulou einai HTHIKH kai oxi
> >oikonomikh.
>
> Ase re paixti. Gia tin ithiki ta eipame idi.
Poio einai to anithiko pou ekane?Pou ebgale thn tapa pou phgate na tou
balete sto stoma epeidh sas enoxlousan ayta pou elege?
> >
> >> > Erwthsh krisews:Giati h KGB ebale korious sto batikano kai den
> >> >eballe sto Oikoumeniko patriarxeio h sthn elladikh ekklhsia?
> >>
> >> Giati o Lakis einai ftwxompines kai mallon etsi tha meinei.
> >
> >Ara symfwneis oti den askei ton papismo...
> >
>
> thelei alla den mporei
Pws to ekfrazei to oti thelei na ginei Papas?
> >> >(malista oi dyo teleytaies eixan POLY megalyterh epirroh sta
> >> >thriskeytika pragmata ths rwssias)
> >> > Hint:Mhpws o rolos tou pappa sthn ESSD htan politikos kai oxi
> >> >thriskeytikos?
> >>
> >> Nai. Ara? (re mpas kai eisai ... Mpourlikos?)
> >
> >Yparxei kanena ideologiko reyma "Mpoyrlismos" kai to exasa?
> >An symfwnw me to Mpourla mprabo tou kai mprabo mou.Poio einai to
> >problhma sou? Mpas kai einai kai ayto plektanh tou Xristodoulou?
> >
>
> O Mpourlas proypirxe. Plirofories oti o Xristodoulismos einai kataskeyasma
> tou Mprourlismou thewrountai ypervolikes :)
Megale fobero.Sou lew gia KGB kai Papa kai to gyrnas sta kounoupidia:)
Pantws feidia blepw apekthses kai fun club :)
(erwthsh krisews:o oros mpourlismos periexetai sto mpampiniwteio
leksiko?)
> >> > Mhpws o Xristodoulos epikaleitai to alathito(tou Papa) kai den to
> >> >phrame eidhsh?Ama deis kalytera tha diapistwseis oti OLES oi
> >> >shmantikes apofaseis gia thn ekklhsia lambanontai SYLLOGIKA apo thn
> >> >iera synodo(kapou 80 atoma) .Den tis pernei monos tou o
> >>
> >> kai to Agio Pneyma 81.
> >
> >Gia na sou thymisw ,Papismos = alathito tou papa= o Papas apofasizei
> >kai oi alloi akolouthoun.
> >Oso gia to Agio Pneyma ti to pianeis sto stoma sou?H pisteyeis oti
> >yparxei h oxi.Pros ti ta logopaignia?
>
> giati metexei stis apofaseis kai to ksexases.
Ama metexei to agio pneyma (opws paradexesai)stis apofaseis ,meteixe
kai sthn anadeiksh tou Xristodoulou opote SYMFWNOUME .Ektos an les
oti to agio pneyma ekane lathos :)
Parathrhsh genikh.Les genikologies kai den mporeis na peis kati
sygkekrimeno pou na enoxopoiei to Xristodoulo h na ton kanei san
ton Papa.
Eseis apla thelete enan pethameno arxiepiskopo(na htan tropos gia
esas na emene o serafeim kammia 1000etia sthn entatikh giati me
to pou akoute to paramikro gia ekklhsia sas shkwnetai h trixa
kagkello.
Ta parapanw xwris parekshghsh.Alla pes thn alhtheia.Theleis
na akous gia ekklhsia?P.x. aisthanesai eyxarista h tsantizesai ama
deis na milaei sthn thleorash enas ierwmenos?
Filika
Dionyshs
Dionyshs Papadopoulos
Lamprini Thoma wrote:
>
> At 10:16 πμ 26/6/1998 +0300, Dionyshs Papadopoulos wrote:
>
> >File o Xristodoulos ston agwna kata ton narkwtikwn proteinei stous neous
> >pio stenh sxesh me thn ekklhssia.Twra ola ta alla ta perierga pou les
> >pio panw einai alla logia na agapiomaste.
> >
>
> thn ekklhsia
> ki ela na moy peis ti soy apanthse.
De sou lew oti einai eukolo na glitwsei kaneis ama einai mesa sto louki
alla se parapempw sto tyxaio peristatiko th deyterh mera ths enthronishs
opou o Xristodoulos phge sthn ekthesh bibliou sto pedio tou Arews.
Prin mpei loipon sthn ekthesh eide ligo pio pera ena prezoni.
Plhsiase to agkaliase kai milhsan gia ena lepto.To paidi malista
tou yposxethike oti thn erxomenh kyriakh tha erxotan sthn ekklhsia
na ton brei na milhsoun.Dystyxws meta apo 2 hmeres to paidi pethane
apo yperbolikh xrhsh.Isws an h synanthsh ginotan mia ebdomada prin
na eixe glitwsei.
Esy ti antimetwpish tha proteines?
> O Xristodoylos mporei na 0ewrei th sxesh me thn Ekklhsia
> (ki isws me opoiadhpote 0rhskeia, plhn ths Rastafari] prolhptikh ths xrhshs
> malakwn .h. sklhrwn,
> alla ayto, agorina moy, den einai 0erapeia, oyte boh0a ta hdh prezonia.
Gia th therapeia des se oles tis therapeytikes koinothtes(strofh,18-anw
klp) opou yparxoun aksioi iereis.
Polles thriskeies apotrepoun apo ta narkwtika ,polles alles omws oxi
(bl. p.x. boudistikes parathriskeies opou pairnoun narkwtika gia na
erthoun se ekstash :)
> 0a mporoyse na milhsei gia Oikogeneia akomh, akomh, sto 0ema .h. xilia dyo
> alla to idio genika ki aorista.
H ekklhsia de leei genikologies.Prosferei sygkekrimeno tropo zwhs
pou ama ton akoloutheis (akomh kai apo POLY makrya) den se aggizoun
ta narkwtika.
> Anyway, proswpikws den pei0omai akomh [an kai einai o Arxiepiskopos moy, exw
> to kako synh0eio,
> opws didaskei h Ekklhsiastikh Istoria allwste, na ton krinw]
> gia tis pantelws aga0es toy pro0eseis.
To na mhn peithesai einai proswpiko sou dikaiwma kai na ton krineis
einai ypoxrewsh sou
> Ayta ta la.i.kistika me t aeroplana [an den to anakoinwne h arxiepiskoph,
> 0a asxoloyntan kaneis me to aeroplano toy Arxiepiskopoy? Asxolh0hke pote? As
> eimaste sobaroi...]
Ki omws den ta anakoinwse h arxiepiskoph (egw to ematha apo
sxolio 5 grammwn se mia gwnia sth sthlh parapolitikwn ths bradynhs)
Oso gia ta aeroplana kai genika tous tropous metaforas twn dhmosiwn
proswpwn klp synithws asxolountai ta MME .Alla edw den
asxolithike sxedon kaneis giati tous xalage h soupa.
> den einai sobara pragmata pantws.
> H tapeinwsh den anakoinwnetai me deltia typoy, IMO kai allwn poly
> megalyterwn apo mena.
H tapeinwsh sigoura den anakoinwnetai me deltia typou.Allwste
kai stis sygkekrimenes periptwseis de bghkan deltia typou
(allwste kai na ebgainan nomizeis tha metadidontan?)
Pantws h tapeinosh afora ta sygkekrimena proswpa enw h
ekklhsia san synolo prepei na proballei to ergo ths.
p.x. hkseres gia ta syssitia sth mhtropolh peiraiws,h gia thn
ierapostolh se afrikh,indies,kina,korea klp?
Ki egw kata tyxh ta ematha afou kanena MME den ta proballei
Sigoura malista yparxoun kai alla polla ta opoia den kserw
Etsi o laos de mathainei gia to ergo ths ekklhsias kai nomizei
oti ayth den kanei tipote.
Ase pou allou diastrefontai kai ayta pou leei h ekklhsia
(des kai mhnyma mou me titlo :"Stefanopouolos kai ...
palaiohmerologites)
> >Ama deis thn ellhnikh istoria tha deis oti PANTA h ekklhsia eixe
> >shmantiko rolo kai logo sthn eleytheria kai diathrhsh ths fysiognwmias
> >tou ethnous.Den einai bebaia o prwteywn rolos ths(oute o Xristodoulos
> >>ton exei anagagei se prwto rolo) alla einai poly shmantikos.
>
> Ws thn aposxish ths Ekklhsias ths Ellados kai to Aytokefalo
> [3ereis ti einai sxisma me to Patriarxeio elpizw]
> opote kai paredwse ta opla stoys bayaro0remmenoys protestantizontes, leei h
> ellhnikh istoria.
> Ki epeidh den eimaste e0nos alla genos (KOYTALEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!),
> kane ena kopo na ri3eis mia matia sthn katastrofh ths fysiognwmias toy Genoys
> poy ephl0e apo ayto to aytokefalo.
Ti ennoeis me to "den eimaste e0nos alla genos" ?
H apospash ths elladikhs ekklhsias apo to patriarxeio egine meta
apo entones pieseis apo tous dytikous "swthres" pou irthan kai mphkan
sto sberko mas meta thn epanastash tou 21.
Stoxos htan na meinei h Ellada ,elladitsa kai na tafei h megalh
idea gia anasystash tou byzantiou(pragma to opoio htan o stoxos
ths epanastashs tou 21) kai mexri shmera to exoun petyxei
(to KOUTALLEEEEEEEEEEEEE den to katalaba )
> >Ena sou lew mono.Xwris ellhnismo den yparxei orthodoksia kai xwris
> >orthodoksia den menei ellhnas o ellhnas.
>
> Xwris or0odo3ia den orizetai Ellhnas, s ayto symfwnw [proswpikh apoch]
> alla oti xwris Ellhnes den 0a yparxei or0odo3ia e, mE fainetai karntash
> oligon asxeto na to les,
> dioti exei kai Rwsoi, kai Slaboi, kai Gewrgianoi, exei ap ola, legete!
Exeis dikio.Atophma mou.
Desposynh mou sas zhtw tapeina syggnwmh.(ypoklish)
> > > Mhpws o Xristodoulos epikaleitai to alathito(tou Papa) kai den to
> > >phrame eidhsh?Ama deis kalytera tha diapistwseis oti OLES oi
> > >shmantikes apofaseis gia thn ekklhsia lambanontai SYLLOGIKA apo thn
> > >iera synodo(kapou 80 atoma) .Den tis pernei monos tou o
> >
> > kai to Agio Pneyma 81.
>
> "To Pneyma opoy 0elei pnei", neos. Kai h istoria mas einai gemath paradeigmata
> aneprokopwn Ierarxwn -oso einai gemath kai me Agioys.
> O Markos o Eygenikos htan monos toy, oloi oi alloi ypegracan Enwshme toyw
> Papikoys.
> Poy htan to Agio Pneyma, pallhkari moy?
To "kai to agio pneyma 81" den to egrapsa egw :)
Symfwnw me ayta pou les.
Omws to thema htan o Papismos kai an o Xristodoulos repei pros ton
papismo.Ston papismo o Papas leei oti se themata pistews exei to
alathito(paliotera to alathito to epikalountan kai se alla themata).
Sthn orthodoksia ola ta themata pistews apofasizontai apo koinou sthn
iera synodo (kai an einai megalhs shmasias apo oikoumenikh synodo).Th
diafora ithela na deiksw giati o giannhs kathgorise to xristodoulo oti
diekdikei rolo Papa.
> Mhn "erwteyesai" ton arxiepiskopo, dioti arneisai thn Ekklhsia etsi..
> H prwsopolatreia poy epideiknyeis einai antiekklhsiastikh.
Oxi kai "erwteyomai" (katse giati tha mas bgalloun kammia brwma)
Makrya apo emena h proswpolatreia.Pou thn eides bre koritsi mou
sta legomena mou?Nomizw oti h proswpolatreia fanerwnetai otan
kleinoume ta matia kai de blepoume profanh atophmata aytou pou
""latreyoume"".Eides kanena tetoio shmadi se emena?
Apla yperaspizomai enan anthrwpo pou mou fainetai aksiologos
kai dexetai adika pyra.An kanei kammia strabotimonia egw prwtos
tha ton "kataxeriasw" (pou leei ki o Gianopoulos :)
Pou thn eides
> >Dionyshs
>
> rL
> in-oi andres de miloyn poly-mode
Egw milaw poly?Liga lew ,apla bazw kai tis prohgoumenes apopseis
gia na fainetai h synexeia ths koybentas kai prokyptoun
terastia grammata (an ebgaza ta ">" tha ebgainan liges
seires ta mhnymata mou alla de tha katalabainan oloi tis
theseis-antitheseis)
Filika
Dionyshs
Lamprini Thoma
Y. Georgiadou wrote:
> >Xwris or0odo3ia den orizetai Ellhnas, s ayto symfwnw [proswpikh apoch]=20
> >alla oti xwris Ellhnes den 0a yparxei or0odo3ia e, mE fainetai karntash
> >oligon asxeto na to les,
> > dioti exei kai Rwsoi, kai Slaboi, kai Gewrgianoi, exei ap ola, legete!
>
> Lambrinh, den katalabainw auto to "Xwris or0odo3ia den orizetai
> Ellhnas".
> Prwta prwta fantazomai oti anaferesai stous Neoellhnes. Etsi den einai?
Anaferomai stoys rwmioys kai toys neoellhnes. Ayto poy orize thn rwmeikh
syneidhsh (ths opoias apotoko einai oi neoellhnes -h rwmeikh syneidhsh
synthrhse thn ellhnikothta toy topoy) htan h or0odo3ia ki h glwssa-foreas ths,
h ellhnikh.
> Amesws meta mou dhmiourgeitai h erwthsh:
> 0eleis na peis "Xwris or0odo3ia den orizetai Ellhnas poliths"?
> Giati an den einai etsi tote poia einai h diafora
> anamesa ston "Ellhna" kai ton "Ellhna polith"?
>
Fysika kai orizetai Ellhnas poliths. Alla to kratos den einai foreas
ellhnikothtas. Ki o toyrkos smyrnios poliths poy htan or0odo3os htan rwmios me
ellhnikotath syneidhsh xwris na anhkei sto ellhniko kratidio. Allo, ara, o
poliths, allo h syneidhsh ths ellhnikothtas.
> Gia na se dieukolunw: Egw den anhkw sthn Ellhnor0odo3h ekklhsia.
> Exw omws Ellhnikh uphkoothta. An zousa sthn Ellada 0a eixa nomizw
> ola ta dikaiwmata kai tis upoxrewseis pou exoun oloi oi
> Ellhnes polites. H' mhpws 0a eixa kapoio politeiako "elleima" logw
> tou oti den eimai ellhnor0odo3h?
Politeiako elleimma den exeis. Kai 0a htan tragiko kai anepitrepto na exeis,
to kratos ofeilei nanai foreas isothtas twn politwn toy. Wstoso exeis elleimma
paradoshs -den metexeis ths koinhs paradoshs ths syntriptikhs pleionothtas twn
ellhnwn -ayto den exei na kanei me to kratos, exei na kanei me thn koinothta.
> Y
rL
Christos Papadas
Dev sumfwvw se ola me tn Lamprivn av kai n Orthodo3ia eivai
snmavtiko meros tns politistikns mas tautotntas snmera alla
sigoura dev apokleiei allo0rnskous va exouv Ellnvikn suveidnsn.
Alla av eisai ka0olikn kalo eivai va filagomaste apo sas kai ligaki,
mias kai pairvete tn pveumatikn trofoula sas apo eva kratos-0rnskeia
me stratngika kai oikovomika sumferovta pou dev tautizovtai me ta
dika mas, toulaxistov stn perioxn twv Balkaviwv kai tns Mesns Avatolns.
Opote priv sou pw Gamw tov Povtifnka, pes mas ti frouto eisai...
Kitsos
Y. Georgiadou
Lamprini Thoma <cptl...@HYPERNET.HYPER.GR> grafei:
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:37:05 +0300
From: Lamprini Thoma <cptl...@HYPERNET.HYPER.GR>
Subject: Re: Neo HTHOS
>>Ena sou lew mono.Xwris ellhnismo den yparxei orthodoksia kai xwris
>>orthodoksia den menei ellhnas o ellhnas.
>Xwris or0odo3ia den orizetai Ellhnas, s ayto symfwnw [proswpikh apoch]=20
>alla oti xwris Ellhnes den 0a yparxei or0odo3ia e, mE fainetai karntash
>oligon asxeto na to les,
> dioti exei kai Rwsoi, kai Slaboi, kai Gewrgianoi, exei ap ola, legete!
Lambrinh, den katalabainw auto to "Xwris or0odo3ia den orizetai
Ellhnas".
Prwta prwta fantazomai oti anaferesai stous Neoellhnes. Etsi den einai?
Amesws meta mou dhmiourgeitai h erwthsh:
0eleis na peis "Xwris or0odo3ia den orizetai Ellhnas poliths"?
Giati an den einai etsi tote poia einai h diafora
anamesa ston "Ellhna" kai ton "Ellhna polith"?
Gia na se dieukolunw: Egw den anhkw sthn Ellhnor0odo3h ekklhsia.
Exw omws Ellhnikh uphkoothta. An zousa sthn Ellada 0a eixa nomizw
ola ta dikaiwmata kai tis upoxrewseis pou exoun oloi oi
Ellhnes polites. H' mhpws 0a eixa kapoio politeiako "elleima" logw
tou oti den eimai ellhnor0odo3h?
>rL
Y
COnstantine Thomas
On Sun, 28 Jun 1998 02:16:18 -0700 Yannis Papakonstantinou
<yan...@CS.UCSD.EDU> writes:
>Yparxei poly pragma gia apantisi edw, kaneis kai ton kouto, opote tha
>paw
>siga siga (ksereis, research, Mountial:) Afou omws zitas tin karta mou
>na
>stin dwsw gia na ksereis ti mou ftaiei
>
>At 05:59 PM 6/26/98 +0300, Dionyshs Papadopoulos wrote:
>>Yannis Papakonstantinou wrote:
>
>
>>esas na emene o serafeim kammia 1000etia sthn entatikh giati me
>>to pou akoute to paramikro gia ekklhsia sas shkwnetai h trixa
>>kagkello.
>>
>
>
>> Ta parapanw xwris parekshghsh.Alla pes thn alhtheia.Theleis
>>na akous gia ekklhsia?P.x. aisthanesai eyxarista h tsantizesai ama
>>deis na milaei sthn thleorash enas ierwmenos?
>>
>
>oti
>dekaeties exoun perasei ki akoma na katalavoume to "kathenas eis to
>eidos
>tou ki o Loumidis stous kafedes".
>
>Ara, den exw provlima na vlepw enan ierwmeno na milaei stin TV gia
>themata
>ekklisiastika, theologika, gia tin swtiria twn psyxwn, gia tin
>Vasileia twn
>Ouranwn, gia to agapate allilous kai tin efarmogi tou, gia tin
>allilovoitheia kai to pws tin ylopoioume. Mpravo kai gia ta narkwtika
An kai alazw to 8ema den mporw na mhn apanthsw!
Enas ierwmenos einai o teleutaios pou 8a mporouse na milaei gia
narkwtika, (xhmika) giati autos kai oloi oi ierwmenoi prow8oun to alo
narkwtiko, th 8rhskeia, kai den pisteuw ston Marx.
Exei dei kanenas sas an8rwpo upo thn epirroh ths biblou opws h biblos to
apaitei;
Mhlaw gia mastoura!
Kwstas 8wmas
>>Filika
>>Dionyshs
>>
>
>Mpinelika
>---Anipsios
>
_____________________________________________________________________
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Yannis Papakonstantinou
Yparxei poly pragma gia apantisi edw, kaneis kai ton kouto, opote tha paw
siga siga (ksereis, research, Mountial:) Afou omws zitas tin karta mou na
stin dwsw gia na ksereis ti mou ftaiei
At 05:59 PM 6/26/98 +0300, Dionyshs Papadopoulos wrote:
>Yannis Papakonstantinou wrote:
> Eseis apla thelete enan pethameno arxiepiskopo(na htan tropos gia
kat'arxin den kserw poioi eimaste "emeis".
>esas na emene o serafeim kammia 1000etia sthn entatikh giati me
>to pou akoute to paramikro gia ekklhsia sas shkwnetai h trixa
>kagkello.
>
oxi. vlepe parakatw.
> Ta parapanw xwris parekshghsh.Alla pes thn alhtheia.Theleis
>na akous gia ekklhsia?P.x. aisthanesai eyxarista h tsantizesai ama
>deis na milaei sthn thleorash enas ierwmenos?
>
Ta pragmata einai poly pio apla alla kai pio genika: Mou tin spaei to oti
dekaeties exoun perasei ki akoma na katalavoume to "kathenas eis to eidos
tou ki o Loumidis stous kafedes".
Ara, den exw provlima na vlepw enan ierwmeno na milaei stin TV gia themata
ekklisiastika, theologika, gia tin swtiria twn psyxwn, gia tin Vasileia twn
Ouranwn, gia to agapate allilous kai tin efarmogi tou, gia tin
allilovoitheia kai to pws tin ylopoioume. Mpravo kai gia ta narkwtika kai
gia ta sysitia kai gia tis ierapostoles pou, btw, ypirxan kai prin valei
mpros to media engine o Lakis.
Malista, an kai o idios den vlepw tetoies ekpompes (twra vlepw mono
Seinfeld, Simpsons, kai NBA finals - kai Mountial vevaia:), mporw na sou
oti to vlepw ws anamenomeno kai dikaio i ekklisia na exei TV time kathoti
exei ena katholou asimanto koino pou prepei ki ayto na pei tin apopsi tou
(kai tin malakia tou, opws tha'lege o poiitis)
Ayto pou thewrw aparadekto, antideontologiko, ant-ekklisiastiko, kai
antithriskeytiko einai apo tin thesi pou i Ierarxia kai to Ag. Pneyma
(aytoi to lene, oxi egw) tou empisteytikan gia na mas ferei stin Vasileia
twn Ouranwn, aytos na vgazei logous pou aforoun entelws tin epi tis Gis
vasileia kai epipleon mplekontai sta podia twn epi tis gis vasilewn. Twra
mou peis oti oi kouventes peri "gkrizwn zwnwn" exoun kammia sxesi me tin
vasileia twn ouranwn giati tha ksefwniksw.
Episis thewrw aparadekto na na symperiferetai toso antitheta me ton
xristianismo. Ti media engines kai karagkiozilikia einai ayta?
>Filika
>Dionyshs
>
Mpinelika
---Anipsios
Panagiotis J. Karras
Nees ypar}iakes anhsyxies ths pammesogeiakhs gynaikas:
> 0eleis na peis "Xwris or0odo3ia den orizetai Ellhnas poliths"?
Oxi, Ellhnas poliths mporei na einai kai mia Koreatissa yio0ethmenh
apo Ebraioys prosfyges apo th Rwssia poy miloyn mono Rwssika kai
zoyn sthn Ellada. Dhladh 0a exei:
Yphkoothta: Ellhnikh
Katagwgh: Koreatikh
Glwssa: Rwssikh
Agwgh: Ebraikh
> Giati an den einai etsi tote poia einai h diafora
> anamesa ston "Ellhna" kai ton "Ellhna polith"?
"Ellhnas Poliths" einai sxedon ka0e Polwnos metanasths
sthn Ellada, ka0e Kroaths kala0osfairisths sthn Ellada,
h parapanw Koreatissa, klp.
"Ellhnas" einai ka0enas apo toys 2.000.000 ellhnikhs
katagwghs ellhnofwnoys katoikoys ths Melboyrnhs.
> Gia na se dieukolunw: Egw den anhkw sthn Ellhnor0odo3h ekklhsia.
> Exw omws Ellhnikh uphkoothta. An zousa sthn Ellada 0a eixa nomizw
> ola ta dikaiwmata kai tis upoxrewseis pou exoun oloi oi
> Ellhnes polites. H' mhpws 0a eixa kapoio politeiako "elleima" logw
> tou oti den eimai ellhnor0odo3h?
Oxi, ka0oloy. Esy, an exw katalabei kala, exeis:
Yphkoothta: Ellhnikh
Katagwgh: Ellhnikh kai Ispanikh -> Mesogeiakh
Glwssa: Ispanikh, Ellhnikh
Agwgh: Ka0olikh, Pagkosmia :-)
Exeis ola ta dikaiwmata kai tis upoxrewseis pou exoun oloi oi
Ellhnes polites. Ayto omws de se ka0ista "Ellhnida".
Eisai dynamei Ellhnida logw ths katagwghs kai ths mias glwssas soy.
Apo 'kei kai pera eisai ontws Ellhnida an esy to pisteyeis, pragma
to opoio den proypo0etei aparaithta na anhkeis sthn Ellhnor0odo3h
ekklhsia, an ayto einai poy se apasxolei.
Elpizw na boh0hsa.
P K
Y. Georgiadou
Lamprini Thoma <lth...@HYPERNET.HYPER.GR> grafei:
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 18:39:18 +0300
From: Lamprini Thoma <lth...@HYPERNET.HYPER.GR>
Subject: Re: Neo HTHOS
>
>> Lambrinh, den katalabainw auto to "Xwris or0odo3ia den orizetai
>> Ellhnas".
>> Prwta prwta fantazomai oti anaferesai stous Neoellhnes. Etsi den einai?
>Anaferomai stoys rwmioys kai toys neoellhnes. Ayto poy orize thn rwmeikh
>syneidhsh (ths opoias apotoko einai oi neoellhnes -h rwmeikh syneidhsh
>synthrhse thn ellhnikothta toy topoy) htan h or0odo3ia ki h
>glwssa-foreas ths,
>h ellhnikh.
Katalabainw. Sumfwna me auth th 0ewria den exw rwmeikh suneidhsh.
>> Amesws meta mou dhmiourgeitai h erwthsh:
>> 0eleis na peis "Xwris or0odo3ia den orizetai Ellhnas poliths"?
>> Giati an den einai etsi tote poia einai h diafora
>> anamesa ston "Ellhna" kai ton "Ellhna polith"?
>>
>Fysika kai orizetai Ellhnas poliths. Alla to kratos den einai foreas
>ellhnikothtas. Ki o toyrkos smyrnios poliths poy htan or0odo3os htan
>rwmios me
>ellhnikotath syneidhsh xwris na anhkei sto ellhniko kratidio. Allo, ara,
>o
>poliths, allo h syneidhsh ths ellhnikothtas.
Oute suneidhsh ellhnikothtas. Suneidhsh ellhnikothtas kai rwmeikh
suneidhsh einai to idio peripou apoti katalabainw giati kai oi duo
aporreoun apo thn or0odo3ia.
>> Gia na se dieukolunw: Egw den anhkw sthn Ellhnor0odo3h ekklhsia.
>> Exw omws Ellhnikh uphkoothta. An zousa sthn Ellada 0a eixa nomizw
>> ola ta dikaiwmata kai tis upoxrewseis pou exoun oloi oi
>> Ellhnes polites. H' mhpws 0a eixa kapoio politeiako "elleima" logw
>> tou oti den eimai ellhnor0odo3h?
>Politeiako elleimma den exeis. Kai 0a htan tragiko kai anepitrepto na
>exeis,
>to kratos ofeilei nanai foreas isothtas twn politwn toy. Wstoso exeis
>elleimma
>paradoshs -den metexeis ths koinhs paradoshs ths syntriptikhs
>pleionothtas twn
>ellhnwn -ayto den exei na kanei me to kratos, exei na kanei me thn
>koinothta.
Xairomai pou den exw politiko elleima. Na se rwthsw kai kati allo,
apo agnh periergeia?
As paroume duo ellhnes polites kai katoikous ths elladas. O enas,
as ton poume A, ektos apo upodeigmatikos ellhnas poliths einai kai
"ellhnas",
dhl. exei auth th rwmeikh suneidhsh ( h' suneidhsh ellhnikothtas)
giati anhkei sthn ellhnor0odo3h ekklhsia. O allos, as ton poume B,
einai apla upodeigmatikos ellhnas poliths.
Poies pra3eis einai dunates ston A pou einai poliths kai ellhnas
kai den einai dunates ston B pou einai aplos poliths? 0elw na pw
poies dunatothtes anoigontai ston A pou einai adianothtes gia ton B?
Me endiaferei to operational point of view, h praktikh opsh
tou problhmatos. An exeis thn kalwsunh na mou fereis
sugkekrimena paradeigmata pra3ewn/dunatothtwn tou A pou 0a eixan
san sunepeia thn euhmeria ths xwras, pou omws einai out of reach
gia ton B, logw tou oti o B den exei auth th rwmeikh suneidhsh
pou aporreei apo thn or0odo3ia.
>rL
Y
Y. Georgiadou
"Panagiotis J. Karras" <pka...@cc.ece.ntua.gr> grafei:
> > Gia na se dieukolunw: Egw den anhkw sthn Ellhnor0odo3h ekklhsia.
> > Exw omws Ellhnikh uphkoothta. An zousa sthn Ellada 0a eixa nomizw
> > ola ta dikaiwmata kai tis upoxrewseis pou exoun oloi oi
> > Ellhnes polites. H' mhpws 0a eixa kapoio politeiako "elleima" logw
> > tou oti den eimai ellhnor0odo3h?
>
> Oxi, ka0oloy. Esy, an exw katalabei kala, exeis:
>
> Yphkoothta: Ellhnikh
> Katagwgh: Ellhnikh kai Ispanikh -> Mesogeiakh
> Glwssa: Ispanikh, Ellhnikh
> Agwgh: Ka0olikh, Pagkosmia :-)
Genos: 0hluko
Ptwsh: Genikh
Egklish: Ypotaktikh (logw ths YP-hkoothtas)
>
> Exeis ola ta dikaiwmata kai tis upoxrewseis pou exoun oloi oi
> Ellhnes polites. Ayto omws de se ka0ista "Ellhnida".
An omws eimai upodeigmatikh politIs (?) xwris na eimai "Ellhnida"
0a uphrxan lewforoi pou 0a einai kleistes gia mena an zousa sthn Ellada?
0a uphrxan megales portes pou den 0a mporousa na diabw gia na
suneisferw sthn euhmeria ths xwras, pou omws 0a mou htan anoixtes
an eimoun KAI "ellhnida" ektos apo aplh politIs?
>
> Eisai dynamei Ellhnida logw ths katagwghs kai ths mias glwssas
> soy.
> Apo 'kei kai pera eisai ontws Ellhnida an esy to pisteyeis, pragma
> to opoio den proypo0etei aparaithta na anhkeis sthn Ellhnor0odo3h
> ekklhsia, an ayto einai poy se apasxolei.
H Lamprinh alla leei. H dikh sou stash mou fainetai pio anektikh.
>
> Elpizw na boh0hsa.
Me boh0as polu Karra mou! You make my day :-)
> P K
Y
Panagiotis J. Karras
Sygnwmh poy paremballomai pali...
Rwtaei h Giola:
> As paroume duo ellhnes polites kai katoikous ths elladas. O enas,
> as ton poume A, ektos apo upodeigmatikos ellhnas poliths einai kai
> "ellhnas", dhl. exei auth th rwmeikh suneidhsh ( h' suneidhsh
> ellhnikothtas) giati anhkei sthn ellhnor0odo3h ekklhsia.
Den arkei na anhkei sthn ellhnor0odo3h ekklhsia gia na einai
kapoios "Ellhnas". Gia paradeigma, enas Oykranos metanasths den
einai "Ellhnas".
Prepei epishs na milaei Ellhnika kai na exei ellhnikh katagwgh.
Gia paradeigma, h Jacqeuline de Romily, gallida ellhnistria,
exei politografh0ei ellhnida timhs eneken kai milaei ellhnika.
Ayto omws de shmainei oti egine Ellhnida, ka0'oti den exei
ellhnikh katagwgh.
> O allos, as ton poume B, einai apla upodeigmatikos ellhnas poliths.
Profanws yponoeis oti milaei ellhnika, afoy diaforetika de 0a
mporoyse na einai ypodeigmatikos poliths enos kratoys me epishmh
glwssa thn ellhnikh.
Epishs, se periptwsh arrenos polith, ofeileis na yponoeis
oti o B einai pro0ymos na yphrethsei th stratiwtikh toy 0hteia
me a}iologo zhlo, ka0ws kai na ypakoysei stis prostages poy
epiballei h asfaleia ths xwras se empolemh katastash, afoy,
kai pali, diaforetika de 0a mporoyse na einai ypodeigmatikos
poliths mias xwras thn opoia arneitai na prostateysei.
S' ayton to shmeio mporei na te0ei h ypopsia oti o A mporei
na drasei apotelesmatikotera apo ton B pros ofelos ths asfaleias
ths xwras, alla de 0a h0ela na mple}w ayto to 0ema sth syzhthsh
twra.
Ypo0etw epishs oti h katagwgh toy B soy einai adiaforh, dhladh
o B mporei kallista na einai enas Toyrkos Moysoylmanos ths 8rakhs,
enas entimos metanasths, klp, ka0ws kai kapoios poliths ellhnikhs
katagwghs xwris syneidhsh ellhnikothtas.
> Poies pra3eis einai dunates ston A pou einai poliths kai ellhnas
> kai den einai dunates ston B pou einai aplos poliths? 0elw na pw
> poies dunatothtes anoigontai ston A pou einai adianothtes gia ton B?
> Me endiaferei [h leitoyrgikh proseggish], h praktikh opsh
> tou problhmatos. An exeis thn kalwsunh na mou fereis
> sugkekrimena paradeigmata pra3ewn/dunatothtwn tou A pou 0a eixan
> san sunepeia thn euhmeria ths xwras, pou omws einai [aprosites]
> gia ton B, logw tou oti o B den exei auth th rwmeikh suneidhsh
> pou aporreei apo thn or0odo3ia.
Malista. H apanthsh sthn erwthsh soy e}artatai apo th syneidhsh
poy telika exei o B anti ths ellhnikhs. Ypo0etw oti se endiaferei
h periptwsh ths ispanikhs latinoka0olikhs syneidhshs.
Sth sygkekrimenh aythn periptwsh loipon, einai ligotero prosith
gia ton B h amfisbhthsh ths egkyrothtas toy parakatw apospasmatos,
enw einai perissotero prosith ston A:
Akoloy0ei to epimaxo apospasma:
http://www.knight.org/advent/cathen/03096a.htm
"This Byzantine civilization, it is true, suffered from a serious
and incurable disease, a worm gnawing at its core, the utter absence
of originality. But here again, we should beware of unwarranted
generalization. A change in this respect is to be noted from age to
age; in the first centuries, before the complete severing of the
political and ecclesiastical ties uniting them with the Eastern
nations, the Greek mind still retained its gift of receptivity and
ancient Greek art traditions, in combination with Persian, Syrian,
and other Oriental motives, produced the original plan of the true
Byzantine church, a type which left its impression on architecture,
sculpture, painting, and the minor arts. And yet, so complete was the
isolation of the empire, separated from other nations by the character
of its government, the strictness of its court etiquette, the refinement
of its material civilization, and, not least, by the peculiar development
of the national Church, that a kind of numbness crept over both the
language and the intellectual life of the people. The nations of the
West were indeed barbarians in comparison with the cultured Byzantines,
but the West had something for the lack of which no learning, no technical
skill could compensate -- the creative force of an imagination in harmony
with the laws of nature."
From the Catholic Encyclopedia, © 1913 by the Encyclopedia Press, Inc.
^^^^^^^^
Prose}e eidika ta e}hs shmeia toy keimenoy:
absence of originality, complete isolation, peculiar development of
the national Church, numbness, lack of imagination in harmony with the
laws of nature
, ka0ws kai to e}hs poly shmantiko yponooymeno shmeio:
"The Greek mind [lost] its gift of receptivity [after] the complete
severing of the political and ecclesiastical ties uniting them with
the Eastern nations."
Ayta ta shmeia loipon, agaphth Giola, einai pi0ano na prokalesoyn
ena aplo meidiasma sta xeilh toy A, mia pra}h pou einai mallon
ligotero prosith gia ton B.
O A, logw ths ellhnikhs toy syneidhshs, mporei na antilhf0ei
eykolotera apo ton B oti oloi oi parapanw xarakthrismoi poy
apodidontai apo thn Ka0olikh Egkyklopaideia sth Rwmiosynh
apoteloyn ena ilaro kataloipo twn politikwn skopimothtwn poy
dhmioyrghsan to Sxisma toy 1054 kai einai enas pros enan
anakribeis.
Synepws o A exei plhresterh aytognwsia ths xwras toy, ara mporei
na leitoyrghsei sto paron ths xwras ayths me tropo poy na prow0ei
thn eyhmeria ths kalytera ap' oti o B.
Isws bebaia na mhn einai h ispanikh latinoka0olikh syneidhsh poy
se endiaferei, alla na eisai apla agnwstikistria ws pros th syneidhsh
soy. Asfalws kai exeis to dikaiwma na eisai.
Tote 0a h0ela na moy perigrapseis th gnwmh soy ws pros to keimeno
apo thn ka0olikh egkyklopaideia poy pare0esa.
Eyxaristw ek twn proterwn.
P K
Nikos Sarantakos
At 04:30 ìì 29/06/98 +0200, Y. Georgiadou wrote:
>Lamprini Thoma <lth...@HYPERNET.HYPER.GR> grafei:
>
>Xairomai pou den exw politiko elleima. Na se rwthsw kai kati allo,
>apo agnh periergeia?
>
>as ton poume A, ektos apo upodeigmatikos ellhnas poliths einai kai
>"ellhnas",
>dhl. exei auth th rwmeikh suneidhsh ( h' suneidhsh ellhnikothtas)
>einai apla upodeigmatikos ellhnas poliths.
>
>kai den einai dunates ston B pou einai aplos poliths? 0elw na pw
>poies dunatothtes anoigontai ston A pou einai adianothtes gia ton B?
>tou problhmatos. An exeis thn kalwsunh na mou fereis
>sugkekrimena paradeigmata pra3ewn/dunatothtwn tou A pou 0a eixan
>gia ton B, logw tou oti o B den exei auth th rwmeikh suneidhsh
>pou aporreei apo thn or0odo3ia.
teleiwsei Paidagwgikh Akadhmia den diorizontan daskaloi
h' toulaxiston diorizontan afou prwta eprepe na pane
sta dikasthria. Auto den kserw an isxuei akomh, pantws
apotelouse mia dunatothta pou den htan anoixth ston B.
Pro tou politikou gamou, o upodeigmatikos kaqolikos B
den mporouse epishs na pantreutei orqodoksh, an den
upografe kapoio xarti oti ta paidia qa baftistoun orqodoksa.
To xarti, fantazomai, akoma to zhtane, kai kala kanoun
isws apo thn pleura tous, alla pro politikou gamou
h dunatothta tou gamou den uphrxe.
Isws omws ola auta na einai ektos qematos kai esu
allo na ennoouses.
ns
Christos Onassis
Y. Georgiadou wrote:
> An omws eimai upodeigmatikh politIs (?) xwris na eimai "Ellhnida"
> 0a uphrxan lewforoi pou 0a einai kleistes gia mena an zousa sthn Ellada?
> 0a uphrxan megales portes pou den 0a mporousa na diabw gia na
> suneisferw sthn euhmeria ths xwras, pou omws 0a mou htan anoixtes
> an eimoun KAI "ellhnida" ektos apo aplh politIs?
an eisai pshlh ksanthia omorfh kai me duo ekatosta mini ola mporeis
na ta petuxeis kai an akoma eisai apo to Tsibuti... :)
Xrhstos
Lamprini Thoma
At 04:30 ìì 29/6/1998 +0200, Y. Georgiadou wrote:
Giola, nomizw oti paizoyme kryfto. O poliths enos kratoys den einai
ypoxrewtiko na moirazetai thn opoiadhpote paradosh ths ploionothtas twn
katoikwn toy. Allwste, ontas syntomws polites ths Enwshs, milame gia
pragmata poy 0a ..teleiwsoyn [Ellhnas poliths 0a einai deyterantza se sxesh
me to Eyrwpaios poliths]. H diaforopoihsh ki o orismos mias moionothtas,
e0nikhs .h. urhskeytikhs, den einai 0ema kratoys alla 0ema paradoshs. Pio
apla, oi Ebraioi ths Salonikhs einai ypodeigmatikoi Ellhnes polites alla den
einai rwmioi. Oyte stis sxeseis toys me to kratos oyte stis sxeseis toys me
toys rwmioys exoyn problhma, ploytizoyn ton topo, dinoyn xrwma se "nekres"
periodoys (opoios den trwei koser apo ton Terkenlh xanei, koinws:-). Nema
Problema. Ara, aplws 3exwrise thn paradosh apo opoiadhpote kratikh ontothta.
Den nomizw oti einai dyskolo na katalabeis th diafora.
rL
>
>As paroume duo ellhnes polites kai katoikous ths elladas. O enas,
>as ton poume A, ektos apo upodeigmatikos ellhnas poliths einai kai
>"ellhnas",
>dhl. exei auth th rwmeikh suneidhsh ( h' suneidhsh ellhnikothtas)
>giati anhkei sthn ellhnor0odo3h ekklhsia. O allos, as ton poume B,
>einai apla upodeigmatikos ellhnas poliths.
>
>Poies pra3eis einai dunates ston A pou einai poliths kai ellhnas
>kai den einai dunates ston B pou einai aplos poliths? 0elw na pw
>poies dunatothtes anoigontai ston A pou einai adianothtes gia ton B?
>Me endiaferei to operational point of view, h praktikh opsh
>tou problhmatos. An exeis thn kalwsunh na mou fereis
>sugkekrimena paradeigmata pra3ewn/dunatothtwn tou A pou 0a eixan
>san sunepeia thn euhmeria ths xwras, pou omws einai out of reach
>gia ton B, logw tou oti o B den exei auth th rwmeikh suneidhsh
>pou aporreei apo thn or0odo3ia.
>
>>rL
>
>Y
>
>
Y. Georgiadou
Lamprini Thoma <cptl...@hypernet.hyper.gr> grafei:
>
> Giola, nomizw oti paizoyme kryfto. O poliths enos kratoys den einai
> ypoxrewtiko na moirazetai thn opoiadhpote paradosh ths ploionothtas
> twn
> katoikwn toy. Allwste, ontas syntomws polites ths Enwshs, milame gia
> pragmata poy 0a ..teleiwsoyn [Ellhnas poliths 0a einai deyterantza se
> sxesh
> me to Eyrwpaios poliths]. H diaforopoihsh ki o orismos mias
> moionothtas,
> e0nikhs .h. urhskeytikhs, den einai 0ema kratoys alla 0ema paradoshs.
> Pio
> apla, oi Ebraioi ths Salonikhs einai ypodeigmatikoi Ellhnes polites
> alla den
> einai rwmioi. Oyte stis sxeseis toys me to kratos oyte stis sxeseis
> toys me
> toys rwmioys exoyn problhma, ploytizoyn ton topo, dinoyn xrwma se
> "nekres"
> periodoys (opoios den trwei koser apo ton Terkenlh xanei, koinws:-).
> Nema
> Problema. Ara, aplws 3exwrise thn paradosh apo opoiadhpote kratikh
> ontothta.
> Den nomizw oti einai dyskolo na katalabeis th diafora.
>
Thn DIAFORA sthn paradosh thn katalabainw polu kala. Esu omws milhses
gia ELLEIMMA paradoshs ws pros tous ellhnes. Eipes:
"Wstoso exeis elleimma paradoshs -den metexeis ths koinhs paradoshs
ths
syntriptikhs pleionothtas twn ellhnwn -ayto den exei na kanei me to
kratos,
exei na kanei me thn koinothta."
Katalabaineis loipon thn anhsuxia mou !...:-) Dhladh gia fantasou, ena
upodeigmatiko polith (pou sun tois allois, NAI karra mou, ...kanei th
0hteia tou kai uperaspizetai ta sunora ths xwras se empolemh katastash
alla einai ebraios kata to 0rhskeuma) na exei auto to ELLEIMMA, pou
isodunamei me to oti oi alloi (= h suntriptikh
pleionothta) exoun ena PLEONASMA... dhl. einai...pws na to pw..
anwteroi!
Gnwrizoume tis blaberes sunepeies tou anwterismou. O "anwteros"
sthn kaluterh periptwsh 0a prospa0hsei na se proshlutisei gia na
deis to fws to alh0ino peismenos oti to kanei gia to kalo sou. Sthn
xeiroterh periptwsh 0a se sapwnopoihsei.
0elw na pisteuw oti sthn Ellada (opws kai se alles dutikes dhmokraties)
ftanei kai perisseuei h idiothta tou polith gia na mporei na anadiplwsei
kapoios to dunamiko tou. Den xreiazetai loipon h "ellhnikothta
pou aporreei apo thn or0odo3ia" on top of the hellenic citizenship.
H 0rhskeutikh (kai podosfairikh) paradosh tou ka0enos ephreazei isws
ton tropo anadiplwshs, alla oxi to euros twn dunatothtwn tou polith.
Ston hrwa mou twra:
Karra mou, me exeis katafakelwsei, ta3inomhsei, dior0wsei
kai metafrasei kai den diamarturh0hka giati kata ba0os se sumpa0w :-)
Mh mou stelneis omws tsitata na ta sxoliasw...ti mania
einai auth pou exeis me ta tsitata re paidi mou ?!
Geia xara sas paidia kai kalo kalokairi
Y
PS: An exei kaneis thn kalwsunh na mou steilei se greenglish
kanena logo tou Xristodoulou 0a tou hmoun upoxreh. Auta
pou stelnei o Dionushs den mporw na ta diabasw.
Eidika auton ton logo opou o X. orizei tous graikulous
kai ton peri ratsismou 0a h0ela.
Panagiotis J. Karras
Anhsyxei h pammesogeiakh gynaika:
> Katalabaineis loipon thn anhsuxia mou !...:-) Dhladh gia fantasou, ena
> upodeigmatiko polith (pou sun tois allois, NAI karra mou, ...kanei th
> 0hteia tou kai uperaspizetai ta sunora ths xwras se empolemh katastash
> alla einai ebraios kata to 0rhskeuma)
H yperaspish ths xwras (ths xwras etsi; - oxi twn petrelaikwn symferontwn
ths xwras) einai kati poy sxetizetai amesa me th symmetoxh sthn kapoia
paradosh ths xwras ayths. Diafwneis;
> na exei auto to ELLEIMMA, pou isodunamei me to oti oi alloi (= h suntriptikh
> pleionothta) exoun ena PLEONASMA... dhl. einai...pws na to pw.. anwteroi!
An ennooyse ayto h Lamprinh kanei la0os.
> Gnwrizoume tis blaberes sunepeies tou anwterismou. O "anwteros"
> sthn kaluterh periptwsh 0a prospa0hsei na se proshlutisei gia na
> deis to fws to alh0ino peismenos oti to kanei gia to kalo sou. Sthn
> xeiroterh periptwsh 0a se sapwnopoihsei.
8es na peis oti anhsyxeis m'hpws se sapwnopoihsoyme; Oxi, mh fobasai.
> 0elw na pisteuw oti sthn Ellada (opws kai se alles dutikes dhmokraties)
> ftanei kai perisseuei h idiothta tou polith gia na mporei na anadiplwsei
> kapoios to dunamiko tou. Den xreiazetai loipon h "ellhnikothta
> pou aporreei apo thn or0odo3ia" [yperanw ths ellhnikhs politografias].
Dhladh h Iapwnia kata th gnwmh soy einai fasistiko kratos, afoy, akoma ki
an exei pantreytei Iapwneza/o, enas/mia }enos/h prepei na egkataleipei th
xwra ka0e 6 mhnes...
Eixa ena filo apo Ellhna patera kai Iapwneza mhtera poy den htan
Iapwnas poliths, mono Ellhnas...
> H 0rhskeutikh (kai podosfairikh) paradosh tou ka0enos ephreazei isws
> ton tropo anadiplwshs, alla oxi to euros twn dunatothtwn tou polith.
Symfwnw.
> Karra mou, me exeis katafakelwsei, ta3inomhsei, dior0wsei
> kai metafrasei kai den diamarturh0hka giati kata ba0os se sumpa0w :-)
Ki egw se sympa0w. An de soy aresei poy se metafrazw 0a eprepe na
moy to peis. Egw to kanw epeidh nomiza oti 0a s' endiefere... :-(
> Mh mou stelneis omws tsitata na ta sxoliasw...
Enta}ei, pes moy th gnwmh soy apla:
Pisteyeis oti h koinh paradosh ths pleiopshfias twn politwn toy kratoys
toy opoioy eisai ypodeigmatikh politis, xarakthrizetai apo absence of
originality, complete isolation, peculiar development of the national
Church, numbness, lack of imagination in harmony with the laws of nature,
kai oti the Greek mind [has lost] its gift of receptivity [after] the
complete severing of the political and ecclesiastical ties uniting them
with the Eastern nations; [eides, den ta metafrazw :-)]
Blepeis, exei shmasia ti pisteyeis, epeidh ayth einai h *epishmh*
apopsh ths diaforetikhs paradoshs sthn opoia mallon symmetexeis.
An esy symmerizesai mia tetoia apopsh peri ths koinhs paradosews twn
sympolitwn soy, dhladh an 0ewreis toys sympolites soy apomonwmenoys,
idiorry0moys, ekkentrikoys, moydiasmenoys, steroyntes fantasias,
prwtotypias kai dektikothtas, tote mallon esy eisai h opados toy
anwterismoy edw pera, etsi den einai;
8a h0ela na moy peis ti gnwmh soy gia to gegonos oti h Ka0olikh
Egkyklopaideia ekfrazei mia tetoia apopsh kai na moy e}hghseis an
th 0ewreis istorika egkyrh. (labe px ypopsh soy to gegonos oti h
Eyrwpaikh Anagennhsh }ekinhse sthn "ekkentrikh", "moydiasmenh",
klp, Rwmania.)
Giati arnhsai na moy peis ti gnwmh soy;
P K
Y. Georgiadou
kar...@tscas.no (Panagiotis Karras) grafei:
> > Katalabaineis loipon thn anhsuxia mou !...:-) Dhladh gia fantasou, ena
> > upodeigmatiko polith (pou sun tois allois, NAI karra mou, ...kanei th
> > 0hteia tou kai uperaspizetai ta sunora ths xwras se empolemh katastash
> > alla einai ebraios kata to 0rhskeuma)
>
> H yperaspish ths xwras (ths xwras etsi; - oxi twn petrelaikwn symferontwn
> ths xwras) einai kati poy sxetizetai amesa me th symmetoxh sthn kapoia
> paradosh ths xwras ayths. Diafwneis;
H uperaspish ths xwras sxetizetai me to Ar0ro 4 tou Suntagmatos ths
Xwras to opoio sebetai o poliths ths Xwras. Basta!
Anakefalaiwnw gia teleutaia fora giati kanw signoff suntoma:
Epeidh 0ewrw nefelwdeis tis "paradoseis" kai gia na mhn emplakw
se atermones 0ewrhtikes suzhthseis tou stul "ti ennoeis?" "ma egw
ennow..." kai loipa, protimhsa thn praktikh erwthsh:
"As upo0esoume oti enas poliths exei mia paradosh. px thn paradosh ths
ellhnikothtas kata th 0wma. Ti epipros0etes dunatothtes exei autos o
'poliths+ellhnas' na suneisferei sthn euhmeria ths xwras, pou einai
kleistes gia ena aplo polith h' ena polith me diaforetikh paradosh?".
H proswpikh mou gnwmh einai oti den mporei na exei perissotes
dunatothtes o "poliths+ellhnas" apo ton "polith+ebraio", apo ton
'polith+mousoulmano', ton 'polith+ka0oliko' kai ton
'polith+agnostikisth' se mia dhmokratikh xwra.
O ka0enas sumfwna me thn paradosh tou mporei na anadiplwsei diaforetika
to dunamiko tou (kai ekei akribws brisketai h omorfia ths poikilias),
alla oi dunatothtes prepei na einai oi idies sumfwna me to ar0ro 5 tou
Suntagmatos.
>
> > Gnwrizoume tis blaberes sunepeies tou anwterismou. O "anwteros"
> > sthn kaluterh periptwsh 0a prospa0hsei na se proshlutisei gia na
> > deis to fws to alh0ino peismenos oti to kanei gia to kalo sou. Sthn
> > xeiroterh periptwsh 0a se sapwnopoihsei.
>
> 8es na peis oti anhsyxeis m'hpws se sapwnopoihsoyme; Oxi, mh fobasai.
Esena den se fobamai Karra mou :-). Oute th 0wma, pou leei oti
oi ebraioi ths Salonikhs thn ploutizoune kai ths gemizoume tis
"nekres" periodous. Alla den 0a sou pw poious fobamai. Auto exei na
kanei me thn idiwsh (!) mou sthn opoia prospa0eis epaneillhmena na
eisbaleis.
>
> > 0elw na pisteuw oti sthn Ellada (opws kai se alles dutikes dhmokraties)
> > ftanei kai perisseuei h idiothta tou polith gia na mporei na anadiplwsei
> > kapoios to dunamiko tou. Den xreiazetai loipon h "ellhnikothta
> > pou aporreei apo thn or0odo3ia" [yperanw ths ellhnikhs politografias].
>
> Dhladh h Iapwnia kata th gnwmh soy einai fasistiko kratos, afoy, akoma ki
> an exei pantreytei Iapwneza/o, enas/mia }enos/h prepei na egkataleipei th
> xwra ka0e 6 mhnes...
Egw 0a to 0ewrousa mia...pws na pw... ateleia pou eimai sigourh oti
0a ekleipsei molis h Iapwnia ginei melos ths Eurwpaikhs Enwshs :-)
>
> > Mh mou stelneis omws tsitata na ta sxoliasw...
>
> Enta}ei, pes moy th gnwmh soy apla:
Pali kamouflarismeno tsitato me bazeis na sxoliasw.
>
> Pisteyeis oti h koinh paradosh ths pleiopshfias twn politwn toy kratoys
> toy opoioy eisai ypodeigmatikh politis, xarakthrizetai apo absence of
> originality, complete isolation, peculiar development of the national
> Church, numbness, lack of imagination in harmony with the laws of nature,
> kai oti the Greek mind [has lost] its gift of receptivity [after] the
> complete severing of the political and ecclesiastical ties uniting them
> with the Eastern nations; [eides, den ta metafrazw :-)]
>
Na sou pw! Den mporw na milhsw genika alla gnwrizw merikous
sugkekrimenous ellhnes (!?) who have lost their eggs and lilacs
after the complete severing
of the ties uniting their brains and their typing fingers.
> Blepeis, exei shmasia ti pisteyeis, epeidh ayth einai h *epishmh*
> apopsh ths diaforetikhs paradoshs sthn opoia mallon symmetexeis.
>
> An esy symmerizesai mia tetoia apopsh peri ths koinhs paradosews twn
> sympolitwn soy, dhladh an 0ewreis toys sympolites soy apomonwmenoys,
> idiorry0moys, ekkentrikoys, moydiasmenoys, steroyntes fantasias,
> prwtotypias kai dektikothtas, tote mallon esy eisai h opados toy
> anwterismoy edw pera, etsi den einai;
>
Pali prospa0eis na mou ekmaieuseis mia genikh dhlwsh !
Gnwrizw sugkekrimenous ellhnes me e3airetikh fantasia opws
gnwrizw kai sugkekrimenous Mapuche ths notias kordigieras twn andewn
me e3airetikh fantasia.
> 8a h0ela na moy peis ti gnwmh soy gia to gegonos oti h Ka0olikh
> Egkyklopaideia ekfrazei mia tetoia apopsh kai na moy e}hghseis an
> th 0ewreis istorika egkyrh. (labe px ypopsh soy to gegonos oti h
> Eyrwpaikh Anagennhsh }ekinhse sthn "ekkentrikh", "moydiasmenh",
> klp, Rwmania.)
>
Den eimai istorikos. Den mporw na se boh0hsw sauth sou thn aporia.
> Giati arnhsai na moy peis ti gnwmh soy;
Giati prokri0hke h omada mou kai den mporw na sugkentrw0w ap th
xara.
> P K
Y
Panagiotis J. Karras
Leei mia Ellhnis Politis:
> > H yperaspish ths xwras (ths xwras etsi; - oxi twn petrelaikwn symferontwn
> > ths xwras) einai kati poy sxetizetai amesa me th symmetoxh sthn kapoia
> > paradosh ths xwras ayths. Diafwneis;
>
> H uperaspish ths xwras sxetizetai me to Ar0ro 4 tou Suntagmatos ths
> Xwras to opoio sebetai o poliths ths Xwras. Basta!
Exeis dikio. Ayto poy omws oysiastika kaleitai na yperaspistei kapoios einai h
xwra mazi me thn paradosh ths, otan bebaia h xwra ayth exei kapoia sygkekrimenh
taytothta paradoshs. H sygkekrimenh xwra gia thn opoia milame, dhladh h Ellas,
den einai polypolitismiko kratos, opws px o Kanadas. Diafwneis;
> Anakefalaiwnw gia teleutaia fora giati kanw signoff suntoma:
Pwpw! 8a se xasoyme!... :-(
> Epeidh 0ewrw nefelwdeis tis "paradoseis"
Kakws tis 0ewreis nefelwdeis.
> kai gia na mhn emplakw se atermones 0ewrhtikes suzhthseis tou stul
> "ti ennoeis?" "ma egw ennow..." kai loipa, protimhsa thn praktikh erwthsh:
>
> "As upo0esoume oti enas poliths exei mia paradosh. px thn paradosh ths
> ellhnikothtas kata th 0wma. Ti epipros0etes dunatothtes exei autos o
> 'poliths+ellhnas' na suneisferei sthn euhmeria ths xwras, pou einai
> kleistes gia ena aplo polith h' ena polith me diaforetikh paradosh?".
Exei endexomenws epipros0eto *kinhtro* na syneisferei sthn eyhmeria
ths xwras, ka0ws kai plhresterh gnwsh ths taytothtas kai twn dynatothtwn
ths idias ths xwras, oxi twn dikwn toy. Yparxei dhladh apotelesmatikoterh
taytish toy polith me th xwra, h opoia einai kleisth gia enan aplo polith
h' ena polith me diaforetikh paradosh. Twra bebaia mporeis na moy peis oti
oyte oi polites me thn paradosh poy ekproswpei th xwra ais0anontai
aparaithta taytish me aythn, kai 0a exeis dikio...
> H proswpikh mou gnwmh einai oti den mporei na exei perissotes
> dunatothtes o "poliths+ellhnas" apo ton "polith+ebraio", apo
> ton 'polith+mousoulmano', ton 'polith+ka0oliko'
E}artatai poso "sobara" pairnoyn thn paradosh toys oi polites
aytoi. Afoy se exw }anarwthsei: pisteyeis oti enas py0menisths
mwame0anos (fundamental muslim) leitoyrgei panta yper ths
eyhmerias enos kratos me mh islamikh paradosh ws poliths toy;
> kai ton 'polith+agnostikisth' se mia dhmokratikh xwra.
Me ton agnwstikisth symfwnw oti den yparxei to parapanw problhma.
Epeita egw den ennow aysthra th 0rhskeia ws paradosh. Mporei dhladh
na eisai agnwstikisths, alla entoytois na ais0anesai taytish me thn
paradosh th xwras soy. Oyden problhma.
> O ka0enas sumfwna me thn paradosh tou mporei na anadiplwsei diaforetika
> to dunamiko tou (kai ekei akribws brisketai h omorfia ths poikilias),
> alla oi dunatothtes prepei na einai oi idies sumfwna me to ar0ro 5 tou
> Suntagmatos.
Gia dokimase loipon na "anadiplwseis to dynamiko soy" symfwna me mh
Iapwnikh paradosh sthn Iapwnia kai meta ta }analeme.
> Esena den se fobamai Karra mou :-). Oute th 0wma, pou leei oti
> oi ebraioi ths Salonikhs thn ploutizoune kai ths gemizoume tis
To "-me" enai typografiko la0os 'h apokalypsh ths idiwsews soy;
> "nekres" periodous. Alla den 0a sou pw poious fobamai. Auto exei na
> kanei me thn idiwsh (!) mou sthn opoia prospa0eis epaneillhmena na
> eisbaleis.
Ma giati; Afoy gi' ayto syzhtame!
> > > 0elw na pisteuw oti sthn Ellada (opws kai se alles dutikes dhmokraties)
> > > ftanei kai perisseuei h idiothta tou polith gia na mporei na anadiplwsei
> > > kapoios to dunamiko tou. Den xreiazetai loipon h "ellhnikothta
> > > pou aporreei apo thn or0odo3ia" [yperanw ths ellhnikhs politografias].
> >
> > Dhladh h Iapwnia kata th gnwmh soy einai fasistiko kratos, afoy, akoma ki
> > an exei pantreytei Iapwneza/o, enas/mia }enos/h prepei na egkataleipei th
> > xwra ka0e 6 mhnes...
>
> Egw 0a to 0ewrousa mia...pws na pw... ateleia pou eimai sigourh oti
> 0a ekleipsei molis h Iapwnia ginei melos ths Eurwpaikhs Enwshs :-)
Qraio to flegma, alla den apanthses sthn poly oysiastikh erwthsh moy.
> > Pisteyeis oti h koinh paradosh ths pleiopshfias twn politwn toy kratoys
> > toy opoioy eisai ypodeigmatikh politis, xarakthrizetai apo absence of
> > originality, complete isolation, peculiar development of the national
> > Church, numbness, lack of imagination in harmony with the laws of nature,
> > kai oti the Greek mind [has lost] its gift of receptivity [after] the
> > complete severing of the political and ecclesiastical ties uniting them
> > with the Eastern nations; [eides, den ta metafrazw :-)]
>
> Na sou pw! Den mporw na milhsw genika alla gnwrizw merikous
> sugkekrimenous ellhnes (!?) who have lost their eggs and lilacs
> after the complete severing of the ties uniting their brains and their
> typing fingers.
Den }erw poioys ennoeis. Egw se rwthsa genika gia thn paradosh omws,
oxi gia sygkekrimenoys Ellhnes. Mporeis na apanthseis se parakalw;
> > Blepeis, exei shmasia ti pisteyeis, epeidh ayth einai h *epishmh*
> > apopsh ths diaforetikhs paradoshs sthn opoia mallon symmetexeis.
> >
> > An esy symmerizesai mia tetoia apopsh peri ths koinhs paradosews twn
> > sympolitwn soy, dhladh an 0ewreis toys sympolites soy apomonwmenoys,
> > idiorry0moys, ekkentrikoys, moydiasmenoys, steroyntes fantasias,
> > prwtotypias kai dektikothtas, tote mallon esy eisai h opados toy
> > anwterismoy edw pera, etsi den einai;
>
> Pali prospa0eis na mou ekmaieuseis mia genikh dhlwsh !
> Gnwrizw sugkekrimenous ellhnes me e3airetikh fantasia opws
> gnwrizw kai sugkekrimenous Mapuche ths notias kordigieras twn andewn
> me e3airetikh fantasia.
Den amfiballw. Alla poia einai h gnwmh soy gia thn parapanw *epishmh*
0esh ths Ka0olikhs Ekklhsias gia thn paradosh me thn opoia taytizontai
oi perissoteroi sympolites soy; Einai aplh h erwthsh moy. Xreiazetai
apla na moy peis an symfwneis 'h oxi.
> > 8a h0ela na moy peis ti gnwmh soy gia to gegonos oti h Ka0olikh
> > Egkyklopaideia ekfrazei mia tetoia apopsh kai na moy e}hghseis an
> > th 0ewreis istorika egkyrh. (labe px ypopsh soy to gegonos oti h
> > Eyrwpaikh Anagennhsh }ekinhse sthn "ekkentrikh", "moydiasmenh",
> > klp, Rwmania.)
>
> Den eimai istorikos. Den mporw na se boh0hsw sauth sou thn aporia.
An mono oi istorikoi mporoysan na exoyn gnwmh tote 0a htan dyskolo
na yparxoyn "ypodeigmatikoi polites", de nomizeis;
> > Giati arnhsai na moy peis ti gnwmh soy;
>
> Giati prokri0hke h omada mou kai den mporw na sugkentrw0w ap th
> xara.
Eides poso poly se epirreazei h symmetoxh soy sthn paradosh mias
allhs xwras; Den mporeis na sygkentrw0eis! :-)
P K
Ioanna Dandolos
At 09:33 AM 02/07/98 -0600, Costas Tsatsoulis wrote:
snip mpoliko
>Kai mou lete oti h Ellada den EIXE ratsismo kai ftaine oi Albanoi egklhmaties
>pou ton dhmiourgoun. Edw akouw ratsismo enantion Ellhnwn, oi Albanoi mas
>kopsane;
Syggnwmh, giati eixe metanastes prin h Ellada gia na exei ratsismo;;;
De mporei na eisai ratsisths ama oi monoi 3enoi pou kykloforoun einai o
Henry Miller kai oi... Aigyptiwtes... [vevaia as rwthsei kaneis kai th
mhtera mou pws thn antimetwpisan merikoi geitones otan hr0e sthn Ellada to
64 - kai me ptyxio panepisthmiou malista kai 4 3enes glwsses] As mhn
3exname oti synh0ws oi Ellhnes htan oi idioi oi metanastes, den htan
xwra-ypodoxhs metanastwn.
yanna
yg: parakolou0hsa mia kataplhktikh parousiash tou Nikou Yannh, ka0hghth
Panteiou kai ekdoth ths Eurwpaikhs Ekfrashs prin apo ligo kairo panw se
0emata metanasteutikwn kymatwn sthn Eurwph.
>
>--- Kwstas
>
Vassilis Koutsos
At 09:33 ðì 2/7/1998 -0600, Costas Tsatsoulis wrote:
>Ka0e xrono tis idies apy0menes malakies akouw peri "Ellhnwn" kai Ellhnwn.
>Fainetai oti einai dyskolo se merikous Mpananites na katalaboun oti Ellhnas
>einai opoios noiw0ei etsi, asxeta me glwssa, 0rhskeia, xrwma, kai katagwgh.
De 0a mporousa na symfwnhsw perissotero.
Eidika gia thn ellhnikothta nomizw oti to krithrio
einai h emprakth symmetoxh s'auto pou leme
ellhnikos politismos kai parallhla
h autosyneidhtopoihsh (sp. to skotwsa mallon)
kapoiou ws ellhna.
That's all :-)
Basilhs
Angelo Berios
Eparxe ti egine Zoxades; Stress;
Bar' to daskale...-:)
Baggelhs
Citizen of the World
PS. S' euxaristw gia thn uperkaluyh...
-----Original Message-----
From: Costas Tsatsoulis <tsat...@EECS.UKANS.EDU>
>Ka0e xrono tis idies apy0menes malakies akouw peri "Ellhnwn" kai Ellhnwn.
>Fainetai oti einai dyskolo se merikous Mpananites na katalaboun oti Ellhnas
>einai opoios noiw0ei etsi, asxeta me glwssa, 0rhskeia, xrwma, kai katagwgh.
>Kata hli0ioi san tou logou sas exoun kanei na exoume problhma
mousoulmanikhs
>meionothtas pou exei apokthsei tourkikh syneidhsh, kai na dhmiourgoume kai
>problhma slabofwnwn kai arbanofwnwn meionothtwn.
>
>Gia pes'te mou kai mena, eseis oi ths ka0arhs ellhnikhs fylhs, Ellas
Ellhnwn
>Xristianwn, kai koinwn paradosewn, eseis pou denete toso stena thn
ellhnikothta
>(oxi ton Ellhnismo!) me thn or0odo3ia, ean kapoios leei X.O. sta xartia
alla
>den pataei sthn Ekklhsia h' einai a0eos, na ton faei ki auton h marmagga;
>Kai autos pou gennh0hke sto e3wteriko, exei 3enh koultoura, alla htan o
>prwtos pou anebhke sto charter na er0ei na pe0anei gia thn patrida tou to
1974,
>autos einai aplws filellhnas; Kai o DeMello pou phge stratiwtiko (pou
>polloi apo sas to exete loufarei), anoi3e mia taberna, kai egine pio
Ellhnas
>apo Ellhnas, auton na ton mazepsoume se stratopedo sygkentrwshs;
>
>Kai meta milame gia Serbies, Bosnies, East Timor, Holocaust, kai den
>syummazeuetai. Koita3te gyrw sas. Ean eixame ta katallhla erismata 0a
eimaste
>xeiroteroi. Me tis idees pou exoume 0a mazeuame olous tous "diaforetikous"
>na tous kaname sapounia.
>
>Kai mou lete oti h Ellada den EIXE ratsismo kai ftaine oi Albanoi
egklhmaties
>pou ton dhmiourgoun. Edw akouw ratsismo enantion Ellhnwn, oi Albanoi mas
>kopsane;
>
>--- Kwstas
Athanassios Protopapas
>Ti wraia pou ta les ti va sou pw...
>
>Ma ti perimevw sto America pou eisai, av kai 8a perimeva epidn meveis sto
>America va koitazes kalutera gurw sou va deis ta problnmata.
>
>Dev 8eloume maurous, kokkivous, tourkous , mousoulmavous sto Ellada ree.
Koita re milaei kai to Kavadaki gia to ti 9elouv stnv Ellada.....
Dev 3ereis va milas ellnvika.
Dev 3ereis va grafeis ellnvika.
De megalwses stnv Ellada.
De zeis stnv Ellada.
Eisai patos kai kopavos.
De sumpa9eis kav tnv Ellada kai tous Ellnves.
Kai DE SE 0ELOYME STHN ELLADA me ta muala pou koubalas.
Bgaze firmavia gia tn Mavitrompa kai ase tnv Ellada stous Ellnves.
Mauros va givei o kwlos sou pou 9a peis kai oti eivai barbaroi oi mauroi.
Zwov.
0avasns
-allou-
>
>Giati? Koita edw tis multicultural xwres va deis ta problnmata. Oi Ellada
>stous Ellnves me to mesogeiako xrwma kai to temperamevto mas.
>
>Px Ex8es ntav Canada Day, o Kavadas giortaze ta 131 xrovia tou. To
>apogeumataki eimouv sto diamerisma mou kai 3afvika akouw korves kai kako..
>skeftome... dev uparxei mpalla snmera , gia to Canada day eivai?
>
>Bgaivw sto mpalkovi kai ti va dw. Sto Canada day eixav bgei kamia 40aria
>ama3ia me snmaies kai kai kako... mousoulmavoi kai diadnlave gia to
>Sabbato va er8ouv gia ta gevvel8ia tou profntn tous ...tou Mohhamad.
>
>Ti wraia pou 8a eivai stnv 25n Martiou meta apo 50 xrovia va exoume ta
>idia stnv A8nva kai pavtou eh?
>
>Na pave sto diaolo... Opoios eivai Ellnvas viw8ei Ellnvas gia ta pavta kai
>dev krata ta cultural kai religion values tou. Autoi pou ta kratave apla
>xrnsimopoiouv tnv xwra stnv opoia briskovtai gia kalutern proswpikn zwn.
>
>Pare tous maurous... osoi erxovtai apo tnv Afrikn eva kalo percentage...
>>> 65% eivai kala paidia. Ta paidia tous omws givovtai opws tous vtopious
>maurous dnladn Skartoi kata >> 70 % ...dika mou auta.. mn rwtisei kaveis
>statistikes pali giati 8a tou balw va lusei kaveva problnma.
>
>Oloi oi mauroi sou kolave, vomizouv oti eivai oi super gkomevoi kai oi
>super magges. Exw sxedov arpax8ei 2 fores me maurous se merikous mnves me
>to tipota. To kalo eivai oti koubalaw eva maxairi kai exw uposxe8ei stov
>eauto mou oti av kavevas mou xeimi3ei 8a tou kopso to kefali kai 8a poio
>krasi meta me to kravio tou opws kavave palia oi barbaroi kai meta 8a tov
>kremasw se kevtrikn odo va tov douve oloi oi alloi mauroi.
>
>Na mn milame me alla zwa pou erxovtai stnv Ellada kai poulave to paramu8i
>oti eivai their second home. Omws oi poio polloi tnv xrnsimopoiouv gia
>transit gia tnv Eurwpn kai tnv B. Amerikn.
>
>--
> ===================================================================
>(||) Bill Pontikakis (||)
> || w...@olympiakos.com wi...@platon.ee.duth.gr ||
>(||) Computer Engineering (||)
> ===================================================================
>
>
Lida Anestidou
Ioanna Dandolos wrote:
>
>
> Syggnwmh, giati eixe metanastes prin h Ellada gia na exei ratsismo;;;
eixe tous ellhnes apo alla merh.
emeis oi apo Kwnstantinoupolh meria gnwrizoume poly kala ti 8a pei na se
lene tourkosporo fatsa karta.
Lhda
Panagiotis J. Karras
Eipe o Kwstas:
> >Ka0e xrono tis idies apy0menes malakies akouw peri "Ellhnwn" kai Ellhnwn.
> >Fainetai oti einai dyskolo se merikous Mpananites na katalaboun oti Ellhnas
> >einai opoios noiw0ei etsi, asxeta me glwssa, 0rhskeia, xrwma, kai katagwgh.
Egw 0a soy paraxwrhsw th glwssa kai th 0rhskeia, an 0eleis kai thn
politografia, gia na doyme poy 0a ftasoyme:
Qraia. Loipon exw gnwrisei sympa0estatoys NotioKoreates Xristianoys
Or0odo}oys poy spoydazoyn 8eologia sto Panepisthmio A0hnwn kai milane
kala Ellhnika. Dhladh kat' ese an kapoios ap' aytoys politografh0ei
Ellhn poliths, aytomatws egine Ellhnas;
Egw nomizw oti einai Koreaths. Einai ratsismos na pw oti o Koreaths
den einai Ellhnas; Ma afoy einai Koreaths o an0rwpos, ti 0eleis na
kanoyme; Kai dhladh aytes edw oi Koreatisses sth Norbhgia poy exoyn
yio0eth0ei apo Norbhgoys goneis, exoyn megalwsei sth Norbhgia, milane
Norbhgika, den milane Koreatika, den exoyn idea apo Koreatikh paradosh,
mono apo Nordikh kai den mporoyn oyte na }exwrisoyn Kinezo apo Koreath
- kati poy aneta kanoyn oi anatrafentes en Korea - den einai
Koreatisses; E, tote giati emena moy fainontai Koreatisses;
Eixa dei sthn thleorash kapote mia pi0hkina poy eixe "yio0ethsei"
ena gataki. H sxesh toys htan apsogh, to gataki 0hlaze thn pi0hkina, h
pi0hkina to prosexe, yphrxe katanohsh, epikoinwnia, tryferothta, armonia
meta}y toys. Ara to gataki apekthse "pi0hkikh paradosh", kai fysika
anagnwrize thn pi0hkina ws mhtera toy. An mporoysame na to rwthsoyme an
ais0anetai pi0hkaki pisteyw oti 0a mas elege "nai" kai kala 0a ekane
asfalws kata th gnwmh moy.
Dhladh to gataki einai pi0hkaki;
Symplhrwse o Basilhs:
> De 0a mporousa na symfwnhsw perissotero.
> Eidika gia thn ellhnikothta nomizw oti to krithrio
> einai h emprakth symmetoxh s'auto pou leme
> ellhnikos politismos
Dhladh symfwna me esena o parapanw Koreaths, an meinei
sthn Ellada kai symmetasxei emprakta ston ellhniko
politismo, einai teleios Ellhnas, enw h agaphth mas
Giola Gewrgiadoy, h opoia einai Ellhnis Politis, milaei
ellhnika kai exei (ypo0etw) en merei ellhnikh katagwgh,
alla *den* symmetexei sthn koinh paradosh kai ston
politismo twn Ellhnwn, den einai Ellhnida.
Pes moy an kanw la0os sthn ermhneia twn logwn soy.
> kai parallhla h autosyneidhtopoihsh kapoiou ws ellhna.
Ayto den einai proypo0esh, einai synepeia twn allwn proypo0esewn,
dhladh ths katagwghs kai ths glwssas, kata th gnwmh moy.
Dhladh px ena paidi poy gennietai sthn Aystralia apo Ellhnes
goneis kai yio0ethtai apo mia mh ellhnikh Aystralianh oikogeneia,
alla kapoia stigmh arxizei na ma0ainei ellhnika kai gnwrizei
thn ellhnikh katagwgh toy, einai Ellhnas kai profanws to
syneidhtoipoiei kai o/h idios/a.
Prepei na symmetasxei kai ston ellhniko politismo;
Kai an den symmetasxei dhladh den einai Ellhnas;
P K
Emmanouil Skoufs
On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Vassilis Koutsos wrote:
> At 09:33 ðì 2/7/1998 -0600, Costas Tsatsoulis wrote:
> >Ka0e xrono tis idies apy0menes malakies akouw peri "Ellhnwn" kai Ellhnwn.
> >Fainetai oti einai dyskolo se merikous Mpananites na katalaboun oti Ellhnas
> >einai opoios noiw0ei etsi, asxeta me glwssa, 0rhskeia, xrwma, kai katagwgh.
>
> De 0a mporousa na symfwnhsw perissotero.
> Eidika gia thn ellhnikothta nomizw oti to krithrio
> einai h emprakth symmetoxh s'auto pou leme
> ellhnikos politismos kai parallhla
> h autosyneidhtopoihsh (sp. to skotwsa mallon)
> kapoiou ws ellhna.
> That's all :-)
Tsouk.
IMNSHO To krithrio gia thn "ellhnikothta" einai ena kokkino bibliaraki pou
koubalame mazi mas kai ena mple xartaki me zelatina to opoio koubalame ki
auto mazi mas kai lene "Eurwpa.i.kh Enwsh Ellhnikh Dhmokratia".
> Basilhs
>
Manwlhs
Emmanouil Skoufs
On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Panagiotis J. Karras wrote:
> Eixa dei sthn thleorash kapote mia pi0hkina poy eixe "yio0ethsei"
> ena gataki. H sxesh toys htan apsogh, to gataki 0hlaze thn pi0hkina, h
> pi0hkina to prosexe, yphrxe katanohsh, epikoinwnia, tryferothta, armonia
> meta}y toys. Ara to gataki apekthse "pi0hkikh paradosh", kai fysika
> anagnwrize thn pi0hkina ws mhtera toy. An mporoysame na to rwthsoyme an
> ais0anetai pi0hkaki pisteyw oti 0a mas elege "nai" kai kala 0a ekane
> asfalws kata th gnwmh moy.
>
> Dhladh to gataki einai pi0hkaki;
To gataki einai gataki, to pi0hkaki einai pi0hkaki, oi Ellhnes kai oi
Koreates einai an0rwpoi (i.e. exoun polu perissotera koina xarakthristika
meta3u tous ap' oti to pi0hkaki me to gataki)
> Dhladh px ena paidi poy gennietai sthn Aystralia apo Ellhnes
> goneis kai yio0ethtai apo mia mh ellhnikh Aystralianh oikogeneia,
> alla kapoia stigmh arxizei na ma0ainei ellhnika kai gnwrizei
> thn ellhnikh katagwgh toy, einai Ellhnas kai profanws to
> syneidhtoipoiei kai o/h idios/a.
>
> Prepei na symmetasxei kai ston ellhniko politismo;
> Kai an den symmetasxei dhladh den einai Ellhnas;
O Ellhnismos/ Otidhpotismos den metadidetai me ta gonidia (Par' olo pou
orismenoi prin apo kammia penhntaetia prospa0ousan na to apodei3oun
kai episthmonika kai orismenoi to pisteuoun akoma...)
Oson afora thn erwthsh sou:
1. An ais0anotan Ellhnas 0a politografotan Ellhnas kai
2. Who cares? Einai proswpikh upo0esh tou ka0enos ti ais0anetai...
> P K
Manwlhs
Nikos Sarantakos
At 04:20 ìì 02/07/98 +0100, Ioanna Dandolos wrote:
>At 09:33 AM 02/07/98 -0600, Costas Tsatsoulis wrote:
>
>snip mpoliko
>
egklhmaties
>>pou ton dhmiourgoun. Edw akouw ratsismo enantion Ellhnwn, oi Albanoi mas
>>kopsane;
>
>
>Henry Miller kai oi... Aigyptiwtes... [vevaia as rwthsei kaneis kai th
>mhtera mou pws thn antimetwpisan merikoi geitones otan hr0e sthn Ellada to
>64 - kai me ptyxio panepisthmiou malista kai 4 3enes glwsses] As mhn
>3exname oti synh0ws oi Ellhnes htan oi idioi oi metanastes, den htan
>xwra-ypodoxhs metanastwn.
Kai tous prosfuges tou 22? Me anoixtes agkales tous dexthkane oloi?
nikos
YG1
Geia sou Gianna
YG2
"Den exw tipota enantion twn ksenwn. Merikoi kaloi mou filoi einai
ksenoi. Alla' autoi oi ksenoi den einai apo edw!"
Asteriks, To dwro tou Kaisara [nomizw]
Panagiotis J. Karras
Leei o Pontikakhs:
> Bgaivw sto mpalkovi kai ti va dw. Sto Canada day eixav bgei kamia 40aria
> ama3ia me snmaies kai kai kako... mousoulmavoi kai diadnlave gia to
> Sabbato va er8ouv gia ta gevvel8ia tou profntn tous ...tou Mohhamad.
Ti diadhlwnane leei; Den katalaba... :-(
> Ti wraia pou 8a eivai stnv 25n Martiou meta apo 50 xrovia va exoume ta
> idia stnv A8nva kai pavtou eh?
Sthn E0nikh Giorth ths Norbhgias, 17 Maioy, eida mia oikogenia Afrikanwn
stoys dromoys. Htan polloi kai ekanan pio xtyphth entypwsh apo alloys. Moy
eipan oti to kanoyn gia "integration". Htan apo to Zaire. Rwthsa ton patera
kai moy eipe oti ka0oloy de 0elei na einai Norbghos kai ais0anetai mia xara
poy einai apo to Zaire.
Sth Norbhgia ayto einai dynato na symbei etsi, epeidh h e0nikh giorth einai
kati san karnabali kai proselkyei toyristes apo alles Skandinayikes xwres.
> ...To kalo eivai oti koubalaw eva maxairi kai exw uposxe8ei stov
> eauto mou oti av kavevas mou xeimi3ei 8a tou kopso to kefali kai 8a poio
> krasi meta me to kravio tou opws kavave palia oi barbaroi...
Palia, alla h proposh ("sthn ygeia mas!", "na zdravie!", "cheers!" klp)
sta Norbhgika einai akoma kai shmera "skaal!" poy shmainei "kranio", opws to
Aggliko "skull". Otan moy to eipe ayto enas Norbhgos oi ypoloipoi sthn parea
kokkinisane... eyxomai kapote na kokkinizoyn kai oi Toyrkoi gia paromoioys
logoys...
Sthn Ellada pinane apo kerata zwwn, opws kai alloy (Asterix), e}'oy kai
"kerannymi", "krama", "krasis", "krasi", "kernaw", "kerasma".
Gi'ayto kai leme "Ela na se kerasw ena pothri (keras) krasi!..."
^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^
P K
Nikos Sarantakos
Apo th Gianna, prowqw, dioti kapoio problhma eixe ekeinh:
ns
>Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 23:00:32 +0100
>From: Ioanna Dandolos <cu...@ice.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
>Reply-To: i.dan...@warwick.ac.uk
>Organization: UNI
>To: Nikos Sarantakos <sar...@village.uunet.lu>
>CC: hel...@uga.cc.uga.edu
>Subject: Re: Diaforetikes Paradoseis
>
>Nikos Sarantakos wrote:
>>
>> At 04:20 ìì 02/07/98 +0100, Ioanna Dandolos wrote:
>> >At 09:33 AM 02/07/98 -0600, Costas Tsatsoulis wrote:
>> >
>> >snip mpoliko
>> >
>> >>Kai mou lete oti h Ellada den EIXE ratsismo kai ftaine oi Albanoi
>> egklhmaties
>> >>pou ton dhmiourgoun. Edw akouw ratsismo enantion Ellhnwn, oi Albanoi mas
>> >>kopsane;
>> >
>> >Syggnwmh, giati eixe metanastes prin h Ellada gia na exei ratsismo;;;
>> >
>> >De mporei na eisai ratsisths ama oi monoi 3enoi pou kykloforoun einai o
>> >Henry Miller kai oi... Aigyptiwtes... [vevaia as rwthsei kaneis kai th
>> >mhtera mou pws thn antimetwpisan merikoi geitones otan hr0e sthn Ellada to
>> >64 - kai me ptyxio panepisthmiou malista kai 4 3enes glwsses] As mhn
>> >3exname oti synh0ws oi Ellhnes htan oi idioi oi metanastes, den htan
>> >xwra-ypodoxhs metanastwn.
>>
>> Kai tous prosfuges tou 22? Me anoixtes agkales tous dexthkane oloi?
Dystyxws alh0ino: oi papoudes mou, diwgmenoi ap'th Mikrasia to 22,
katafygan ston Livano opou eipan na katsoun ligo mexri na doun pws exoun
ta pragmata sthn Ellada. Meta ta prwta 'raporta' apo thn mama patrida,
anagkasthkan na pane sthn Aigypto. H synexeia einai gnwsth...
yanna
yg: pws ginetai na milaw egw gia Ellada, shkwse kai h arapia kefali :-(
Giwrgos Apergis
>
>
> Dystyxws alh0ino: oi papoudes mou, diwgmenoi ap'th Mikrasia to 22,
> katafygan ston Livano opou eipan na katsoun ligo mexri na doun pws exoun
> ta pragmata sthn Ellada. Meta ta prwta 'raporta' apo thn mama patrida,
> anagkasthkan na pane sthn Aigypto. H synexeia einai gnwsth...
>
> yanna
>
> yg: pws ginetai na milaw egw gia Ellada, shkwse kai h arapia kefali :-(
>
Nai ,Gianna alla thn istoria sthn eipan mish .
Otan h Ellada polemage na apeleytherwsei thn Ellhnikh Iwnia ,
kai den eixe ton strato pou analogouse gia mia tetoia ekstrateia ,
sthn mama patrida eixe ginei epistrateysh klasewsn ekshntapentarhdwn
kai vale .Sthn Iwnia h Ellas den eixe dikaiwma epistrateyshs .
Kai ekei oi megaloi mikrasiates patriwtes den katadexthkan na pane
ethelontes sto ellhniko strato
Apo ta 3 kai ekatomyria einai zhthma
an phgan dyo xiliades.Me megaloi eksairesh tous Pontious pou
ftiaksan antartika swmata .
Oi ypoloipoi pou hrthan kserizwmenoi sthn Ellada ,olo na vrizoun kai
na katariountai pou tolmhse h Ellada auth th prospathia .
Giwrgos
Gia na mhn poume gia tous Aigyptiwtes kai ta kinhmata sth Mesh
Anatolh (1943-44)
Vassilis Koutsos
At 08:08 ìì 2/7/1998 +0300, you wrote:
> Eipe o Kwstas:
>
>
>> >Ka0e xrono tis idies apy0menes malakies akouw peri "Ellhnwn" kai Ellhnwn.
>> >Fainetai oti einai dyskolo se merikous Mpananites na katalaboun oti Ellhnas
>> >einai opoios noiw0ei etsi, asxeta me glwssa, 0rhskeia, xrwma, kai katagwgh.
>
>politografia, gia na doyme poy 0a ftasoyme:
>
> Qraia. Loipon exw gnwrisei sympa0estatoys NotioKoreates Xristianoys
>Or0odo}oys poy spoydazoyn 8eologia sto Panepisthmio A0hnwn kai milane
>kala Ellhnika. Dhladh kat' ese an kapoios ap' aytoys politografh0ei
>Ellhn poliths, aytomatws egine Ellhnas;
>
> Egw nomizw oti einai Koreaths. Einai ratsismos na pw oti o Koreaths
>den einai Ellhnas; Ma afoy einai Koreaths o an0rwpos, ti 0eleis na
>kanoyme; Kai dhladh aytes edw oi Koreatisses sth Norbhgia poy exoyn
>yio0eth0ei apo Norbhgoys goneis, exoyn megalwsei sth Norbhgia, milane
>Norbhgika, den milane Koreatika, den exoyn idea apo Koreatikh paradosh,
>mono apo Nordikh kai den mporoyn oyte na }exwrisoyn Kinezo apo Koreath
>- kati poy aneta kanoyn oi anatrafentes en Korea - den einai
>Koreatisses; E, tote giati emena moy fainontai Koreatisses;
>
>ena gataki. H sxesh toys htan apsogh, to gataki 0hlaze thn pi0hkina, h
>pi0hkina to prosexe, yphrxe katanohsh, epikoinwnia, tryferothta, armonia
>meta}y toys. Ara to gataki apekthse "pi0hkikh paradosh", kai fysika
>anagnwrize thn pi0hkina ws mhtera toy. An mporoysame na to rwthsoyme an
>ais0anetai pi0hkaki pisteyw oti 0a mas elege "nai" kai kala 0a ekane
>asfalws kata th gnwmh moy.
>
> Dhladh to gataki einai pi0hkaki;
>
>
>
>
>> De 0a mporousa na symfwnhsw perissotero.
>> Eidika gia thn ellhnikothta nomizw oti to krithrio
>> einai h emprakth symmetoxh s'auto pou leme
>> ellhnikos politismos
>
>sthn Ellada kai symmetasxei emprakta ston ellhniko
>politismo, einai teleios Ellhnas, enw h agaphth mas
>Giola Gewrgiadoy, h opoia einai Ellhnis Politis, milaei
>ellhnika kai exei (ypo0etw) en merei ellhnikh katagwgh,
>alla *den* symmetexei sthn koinh paradosh kai ston
>politismo twn Ellhnwn, den einai Ellhnida.
>
> Pes moy an kanw la0os sthn ermhneia twn logwn soy.
Enta3ei, isws adokima ola auta alla einai h apoch mou.
Me to symmetoxh sto ellhnikos politismos ennow
akoma kai to ton gnwrisei apla
(akomh ki apo biblia). Na noiwsei oti ton ekfrazei,
oti exei shmadecei ton shmerino dytiko politismo
(dhl. ta gnwsta kai tetrimmena alla se kamia
periptwsh mikra kai ashmanta).
Opws antilambanesai einai ena
poly as0enes "krithrio". To allo omws to 0ewrw isxyro.
>
>
>> kai parallhla h autosyneidhtopoihsh kapoiou ws ellhna.
>
> Ayto den einai proypo0esh, einai synepeia twn allwn proypo0esewn,
>dhladh ths katagwghs kai ths glwssas, kata th gnwmh moy.
Symfwnoi!!!!!
H autoseinhdhtopoihsh ths (a.s.) ellhnikothtas nomizw oti einai
poly kalo krithrio, giati symperilambanei oles tis kathgories.
Mporei kapoios na exei ellhnikh riza, alla na zei e3w,
na exei megalwsei alliws klpklp. alla se mia orismenh stigmh
ths zwhs tou kai isws katw apo synais0hmatikh fortish,
na ais0an0ei ellhnas. Alla kai kapoios pou gennh0hke agglos
kai einai filellhnas, alla erxetai sthn Ellada to '21
na polemhsei kai dhlwnei kai ais0anetai ellhnas
gia mena einai ellhnas.
Opwsdhpote h a.s. einai epomeno kapoiwn diergasiwn,
diaforetikwn analoga me thn periptwsh pou exoun
auth ws apotelesma. Mporei loipon na xrhsimopoih0ei
aneta ws ena praktiko krithrio (oxi bebaia ws
genesiourgo aitia)
Twra, an kanw kapoio tromero la0os ston eirmo twn skecewn,
sygxwrhste me. Enas ptwxos fysikos eimai pou mesa
sto katakalokairo grafw papers kai apanthseis stous
(#$@$%^$@@) referhdes... :-).
Mporei na me phra3e ki h zesth!!
> Dhladh px ena paidi poy gennietai sthn Aystralia apo Ellhnes
>goneis kai yio0ethtai apo mia mh ellhnikh Aystralianh oikogeneia,
>alla kapoia stigmh arxizei na ma0ainei ellhnika kai gnwrizei
>thn ellhnikh katagwgh toy, einai Ellhnas kai profanws to
>syneidhtoipoiei kai o/h idios/a.
>
> Prepei na symmetasxei kai ston ellhniko politismo;
>Kai an den symmetasxei dhladh den einai Ellhnas;
Nomizw e3hghsa parapanw ti ennow me th "symmetoxh".
Fysika einai ellhnas, an to anagnwrizei kai o idios.
>
>
> P K
>
Basilhs
Y. Georgiadou
Teleutaio!
Panagiotis J. Karras grafei:
> Pwpw! 8a se xasoyme!... :-(
Prwta me skasate Karra kai twra 0a me xasete :-)
> > "As upo0esoume oti enas poliths exei mia paradosh. px thn paradosh
> ths
> > ellhnikothtas kata th 0wma. Ti epipros0etes dunatothtes exei autos o
> > 'poliths+ellhnas' na suneisferei sthn euhmeria ths xwras, pou einai
> > kleistes gia ena aplo polith h' ena polith me diaforetikh
> paradosh?".
>
> Exei endexomenws epipros0eto *kinhtro* na syneisferei sthn eyhmeria
> ths xwras, ka0ws kai plhresterh gnwsh ths taytothtas kai twn
> dynatothtwn
> ths idias ths xwras, oxi twn dikwn toy. Yparxei dhladh
> apotelesmatikoterh
> taytish toy polith me th xwra, h opoia einai kleisth gia enan aplo
> polith
> h' ena polith me diaforetikh paradosh. Twra bebaia mporeis na moy peis
> oti
> oyte oi polites me thn paradosh poy ekproswpei th xwra ais0anontai
> aparaithta taytish me aythn, kai 0a exeis dikio...
>
Plhresterh gnwsh..., apotelesmatikoterh tautish.....
Giati den les ANWTERH na teleiwnoume?
> > H proswpikh mou gnwmh einai oti den mporei na exei perissotes
> > dunatothtes o "poliths+ellhnas" apo ton "polith+ebraio", apo
> > ton 'polith+mousoulmano', ton 'polith+ka0oliko'
>
> E}artatai poso "sobara" pairnoyn thn paradosh toys oi polites
> aytoi. Afoy se exw }anarwthsei: pisteyeis oti enas py0menisths
> mwame0anos (fundamental muslim) leitoyrgei panta yper ths
> eyhmerias enos kratos me mh islamikh paradosh ws poliths toy;
>
> > kai ton 'polith+agnostikisth' se mia dhmokratikh xwra.
>
Afhse tis dikolabies me tous fountamentalistes kai apofasise
poso sobara epitrepetai na parei enas poliths me diaforetikh paradosh
thn paradosh tou. Mporeis na eisagageis kai mia klimaka
sobarothtas me arista to deka. An 3eperasei to 7 ginetai epikindunos,
kai ton metatrepoume se sapouni gia na exoume na niptoume
tas xeiras mas!
> Gia dokimase loipon na "anadiplwseis to dynamiko soy" symfwna me mh
> Iapwnikh paradosh sthn Iapwnia kai meta ta }analeme.
Kai poios sou eipe oti auth einai h epi0umia mou?
Pros to paron skeftomai na foresw to galanoleuko fanelaki mou kai
na anadiplwsw to dunamiko mou sth Masalia. Tseligka, 0a einai kai o
0eos ekei
autoproswpws.... Parempiptontws, o 0eos epeplh3e ton Passarella
gia thn allagh tou Bati. Kai....ka0olou plhgwmenos den htan o Bati.
Fainetai makrunan ta mallia tou kata ena nanometro kata th diarkeia
tou paixnidiou kai to prose3e o kaiser giauto ton alla3e.
> > Esena den se fobamai Karra mou :-). Oute th 0wma, pou leei oti
> > oi ebraioi ths Salonikhs thn ploutizoune kai ths gemizoume tis
>
> To "-me" enai typografiko la0os 'h apokalypsh ths idiwsews soy;
Me epiases sta prasa, karra mou.... Etsi apokalufthke h idiwsh
mou kai h idiwteia kati allwn.
> > "nekres" periodous. Alla den 0a sou pw poious fobamai. Auto exei na
> > kanei me thn idiwsh (!) mou sthn opoia prospa0eis epaneillhmena na
> > eisbaleis.
>
> Ma giati; Afoy gi' ayto syzhtame!
Gia thn idiwsh h' thn idiwteia ?
> Eides poso poly se epirreazei h symmetoxh soy sthn paradosh mias
> allhs xwras; Den mporeis na sygkentrw0eis! :-)
>
Ti na kanw? Exw ki egw tis adunamies mou! Mou epitrepeis?
> P K
Y
Ioanna Dandolos
At 06:42 PM 02/07/98 +0000, Giwrgos Apergis wrote:
>Nai ,Gianna alla thn istoria sthn eipan mish .
>Otan h Ellada polemage na apeleytherwsei thn Ellhnikh Iwnia ,
>kai den eixe ton strato pou analogouse gia mia tetoia ekstrateia ,
>sthn mama patrida eixe ginei epistrateysh klasewsn ekshntapentarhdwn
>kai vale .Sthn Iwnia h Ellas den eixe dikaiwma epistrateyshs .
>Kai ekei oi megaloi mikrasiates patriwtes den katadexthkan na pane
>ethelontes sto ellhniko strato
>Apo ta 3 kai ekatomyria einai zhthma
>an phgan dyo xiliades.Me megaloi eksairesh tous Pontious pou
>ftiaksan antartika swmata .
>Oi ypoloipoi pou hrthan kserizwmenoi sthn Ellada ,olo na vrizoun kai
>na katariountai pou tolmhse h Ellada auth th prospathia .
>Giwrgos
>Gia na mhn poume gia tous Aigyptiwtes kai ta kinhmata sth Mesh
>Anatolh (1943-44)
Disclaimer a' - apo ta Adana ths Kylikeias kai thn Kaisareia ths
Kappadokias oi papoudes mou (auto leei polla ;-) )
Deuteron, nomizeis oti oi Ellhnes ths Iwnia 3eran ti ginotan;;; Giati 3eran
ti ginotan oi 'Elladites' polemistes;;; Telos pantwn - de sou eipa oti
oloi oi Mikrasiates h h Aigyptiwtes htan agioi - Ellhnes einai sto katw
katw (me ola ta kala kai ta kaka pou auto yponooei).;
Ti prospa0eis na peis omws, oti epeidh oi pio polloi Mikrasiates den
polemhsan typika (dhladh den evalan stolh) alla prospa0hsan na swsoun tis
oikogeneies tous afou spitia - periousies - kopos mias [eirhnikhs] zwhs
xa0hkan logo politikwn symferontwn sthn Ellada einai swsto na tous
antimetwpizoun oi 'gnhsioi' Elladites me kakentrexeia;;; Tous Xiwtes loipon
meta to 21 0a eprepe na tous eixame akoma sth mpouka (pws tolmhsan na
sfagiastoun kai na paraponiountai meta enw den phran ekeinoi ta opla na
e3eger0oun)
Ofeilw na omologhsw pantws oti ratsismo enanti Mikrasiatwn den exw dei pote
mou - mallon to anti0eto, ki as leei h Lhda. Egw s'opoious exw pei oti
eimai Mikrasiatisa mallon me kalo mati to phran - sto Aigyptiwtissa kolane
;-)))
Oso gia ta kinhmata sth Mesh Anatolh to 43-44 mhpws anaferesai sta aristera
kinhmata tou ELLHNIKOU stratou sthn Aigypto (ston opoion vevaia mesa
yphrxan Aigyptiwtes);;;; De mporw vevaia na syzhthsw parapanw gi auto to
0ema dioti osa 3erw einai apo tis Me0ysmenes Politeies tou Tsirka kai kati
3wfaltsa ar0rakia pou exoun pesei sta xeria mou.
Alla kai se authn thn periptwsh ti 0a ginei, 0a eimaste ratsistes enanti
twn Aigyptiwtwn epeidh etyxe o stratos pou htan sthn Aigypto na ekfrasei
aristeres protimhseis h epeidh o Kavafhs hto Aigyptiwths ki aristeros;;; E,
na mh milame kai stous Krhtikous tote dioti pshfisan oloi PASOK kai emas de
mas aresei to PASOK - ara oi Krhtikoi = polites deuterhs kathgorias.
yanna
Ioanna Dandolos
Oups, la0os!!!!!!!
>0ema dioti osa 3erw einai apo tis Me0ysmenes Politeies tou Tsirka kai kati
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Tis akyvernhtes Politeies ennoousa (Kairo, Ale3andreia, Ierousalhm)
y.
Nikos Sarantakos
At 06:42 ìì 02/07/98 +0000, Giwrgos Apergis wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dystyxws alh0ino: oi papoudes mou, diwgmenoi ap'th Mikrasia to 22,
>> katafygan ston Livano opou eipan na katsoun ligo mexri na doun pws exoun
>> ta pragmata sthn Ellada. Meta ta prwta 'raporta' apo thn mama patrida,
>> anagkasthkan na pane sthn Aigypto. H synexeia einai gnwsth...
>>
>> yanna
>>
>> yg: pws ginetai na milaw egw gia Ellada, shkwse kai h arapia kefali :-(
>>
>
>Otan h Ellada polemage na apeleytherwsei thn Ellhnikh Iwnia ,
>kai den eixe ton strato pou analogouse gia mia tetoia ekstrateia ,
>sthn mama patrida eixe ginei epistrateysh klasewsn ekshntapentarhdwn
>kai vale .Sthn Iwnia h Ellas den eixe dikaiwma epistrateyshs .
>Kai ekei oi megaloi mikrasiates patriwtes den katadexthkan na pane
>ethelontes sto ellhniko strato
>Apo ta 3 kai ekatomyria einai zhthma
>an phgan dyo xiliades.Me megaloi eksairesh tous Pontious pou
>ftiaksan antartika swmata .
>Oi ypoloipoi pou hrthan kserizwmenoi sthn Ellada ,olo na vrizoun kai
>na katariountai pou tolmhse h Ellada auth th prospathia .
>Giwrgos
Kai ksexnaei, as poume, oti o Stergiadhs kai oi pio polloi
elladites ferqhkan skaia stous ellhnes ths smurnhs, deixnontas
sumperifora katakthth -thn idia, allwste, pou edeiksan
oi palioelladites otan apeleuqerwqhkan ta nea edafh
to 1912/3.
Kai gia na mhn phgainoume makria, Giwrgo.
Sto Falhro pou "menw", exei xiliades
ellhnes apo thn Polh. Kainourgious prosfuges,
tou 55 kai meta (kuriws apo to 73-74).
Ekei den uparxei h dikaiologia tou 1922, ki
omws oi ntopioi sthn pleiopshfia tous, tous
antimetwpizoun exqrika. Hrqan oi tourkosporoi
kai anebasan tis times, lene.
Kai oi prwhn megalobiomhxanoi pou twra
eginan mesites, otan tous rwtaw giati den frontisan
na reustopoihsoun ena kommati ths periousias
tous, na agorasoun ena keramidi sthn Ellada,
afou eblepan pws phgainan ta pragmata,
mou apantane oti otan kanenas Poliths
ebgaze lefta eksw krufa kai agoraze akinhto
sthn Ellada (kati pou apagoreuotan apo ton
tourkiko nomo), oi atsides ellhnes dikhgoroi
phgainan sta upoqhkofulakeia, epairnan
antigrafo tou sumbolaiou kai to estelnan
sthn tourkikh presbeia, opote o Poliths
kleinotan fulakh. H tarifa gia thn prodosia
htan, nomizw, penhnta xiliarika.
ns
Panagiotis J. Karras
Leei o 40Nikos:
> Sto Falhro pou "menw", exei xiliades
> ellhnes apo thn Polh. Kainourgious prosfuges,
> tou 55 kai meta (kuriws apo to 73-74).
> Ekei den uparxei h dikaiologia tou 1922, ki
> omws oi ntopioi sthn pleiopshfia tous, tous
> antimetwpizoun exqrika. Hrqan oi tourkosporoi
> kai anebasan tis times, lene.
Ki egw sto Falhro menw kai den exw dei kanenan na antimetwpizei
toys Polites ex0rika. Ston ypno soy to eides;
Oi Polites poy gnwrizw exoyn na lene poso poly toys aresei
to Falhro kai oti h 0ea ths Aiginas toys 0ymizei to Bosporo.
Den moy exei pei kaneis oti toys antimetwpizoyme ex0rika...
> Kai oi prwhn megalobiomhxanoi pou twra
> eginan mesites, otan tous rwtaw giati den frontisan
> na reustopoihsoun ena kommati ths periousias
> tous, na agorasoun ena keramidi sthn Ellada,
> afou eblepan pws phgainan ta pragmata,
> mou apantane oti otan kanenas Poliths
> ebgaze lefta eksw krufa kai agoraze akinhto
> sthn Ellada (kati pou apagoreuotan apo ton
> tourkiko nomo), oi atsides ellhnes dikhgoroi
> phgainan sta upoqhkofulakeia, epairnan
> antigrafo tou sumbolaiou kai to estelnan
> sthn tourkikh presbeia, opote o Poliths
> kleinotan fulakh. H tarifa gia thn prodosia
> htan, nomizw, penhnta xiliarika.
Ayto me afhnei afwno.
Sigoyra omws yphrxan ki alloi tropoi na bgaleis lefta e}w.
PK
Giwrgos Apergis
> Enw twra o Giwrgos th leei oloklhrh thn istoria?
> Kai ksexnaei, as poume, oti o Stergiadhs kai oi pio polloi
> elladites ferqhkan skaia stous ellhnes ths smurnhs, deixnontas
> sumperifora katakthth -thn idia, allwste, pou edeiksan
> oi palioelladites otan apeleuqerwqhkan ta nea edafh
> to 1912/3.
kai eklektos twn "Symmaxwn".Megalh eksairesh .
Den mporouse omws na ton kounhsei kaneis apo thn thesh tou.
Oi alloi Elladites den
edeiksan symperifora katakthtou ,toulaxiston apenanti stous Ellhnes
ths Iwnias ,kai tous xristianikhs katagwghs katoikous ths Mikras
Asias
Kai gia na mhn phgainoume makria, Giwrgo.
> Sto Falhro pou "menw", exei xiliades
> ellhnes apo thn Polh. Kainourgious prosfuges,
> tou 55 kai meta (kuriws apo to 73-74).
> Ekei den uparxei h dikaiologia tou 1922, ki
> omws oi ntopioi sthn pleiopshfia tous, tous
> antimetwpizoun exqrika. Hrqan oi tourkosporoi
> kai anebasan tis times, lene.
> Kai oi prwhn megalobiomhxanoi pou twra
> eginan mesites, otan tous rwtaw giati den frontisan
> na reustopoihsoun ena kommati ths periousias
> tous, na agorasoun ena keramidi sthn Ellada,
> afou eblepan pws phgainan ta pragmata,
> mou apantane oti otan kanenas Poliths
> ebgaze lefta eksw krufa kai agoraze akinhto
> sthn Ellada (kati pou apagoreuotan apo ton
> tourkiko nomo), oi atsides ellhnes dikhgoroi
> phgainan sta upoqhkofulakeia, epairnan
> antigrafo tou sumbolaiou kai to estelnan
> sthn tourkikh presbeia, opote o Poliths
> kleinotan fulakh. H tarifa gia thn prodosia
> htan, nomizw, penhnta xiliarika.
>
> ns
Ta anwterw themata den ta gnwrizw kai den mporw na ta krinw .
Dexomai thn gnwmh sou
Giwrgos
Nikos Sarantakos
At 07:58 ìì 03/07/98 +0300, Panagiotis J. Karras wrote:
>
> Leei o 40Nikos:
>
>
>> Sto Falhro pou "menw", exei xiliades
>> ellhnes apo thn Polh. Kainourgious prosfuges,
>> tou 55 kai meta (kuriws apo to 73-74).
>> Ekei den uparxei h dikaiologia tou 1922, ki
>> omws oi ntopioi sthn pleiopshfia tous, tous
>> antimetwpizoun exqrika. Hrqan oi tourkosporoi
>> kai anebasan tis times, lene.
>
>toys Polites ex0rika. Ston ypno soy to eides;
Telos pantwn, mporei na menoume se allo Falhro,
egw menw sto Palaio. Isws kapoios allos katoikos
Falhrou, p.x h Lhda na exei ki auth na pei th
gnwmh ths.
Otan lew oti tous antimetwpizoun exqrika, bebaia,
den ennow oti tous kaine ta spitia, na ekshgoumaste.
ns
Christos Papadas
Giwrgo, o Stergiadns mallov ntav evas aplos malakas kai
oxi o uperfusikos malakas pou polloi vomizouv. Htav aplws
akatallnlos kai fusika diorismevos apo tov megallitero
malaka Eleu0erio Bevizelo pou avoi3e tnv oln mikrasiatikn
plngn para tis proeidopoinseis tou Epiteleiou kai twv summaxwv
pou taxa mas tov uperagapousave...
Dustuxws o evtimos Gouvarns kai o Basileus tov afnsav stnv
0esn tou gia va dei3ouv pws uparxei suvexeia stnv filosummaxikn
politikn tns Ellados kai meta to Noembrio tou 20 mias kai oi
dnmagwgoi tou Bevizelismou, oi amuvites stnv Kwv/poln, klp
diatumpavousav (akoma!!) pws o Basileus kai n kubervnsn
ntav filogermavoi, ex0roi tns Avtavt, klp klp.
Etsi o Stergiadns emeive kai epai3e drastnrio rolo, opws
fusika kai oi Bevizelikoi (opws swsta episnmaves kapote)
epitelarxes apo tous opoious dev zntn0nkav eu0uves
akoma kai otav oi Bevizelikoi pra3ikopnmaties tou yuxas0evous
Plastnra eservav sta stnmeva dikastnria kai extelousav tov
Xatznavestn.
Av eixav eva drami mualo kai politikn krisn oi mikrasiates 0a eixav
givei avtibevizelikoi apo to 1914 pou o malakas Bevizelos xwris
kammia isxu pragmatopoinsns twv apeilwv tou, apeilouse to
Soultavo me apeleu0erwsn twv adelfwv mas. Kai fusika ka0e fora
pou o malakas erixve mia aveu ousias apeiln, oi diwgmoi kata twv
Ellnvikwv pln0usmwv arxizav.... Stous de mikrasiates elege pws
o Basileus ftaei pou eivai..germavofilos kai dev to afnvei va kavei
to ... 0riambo tou!! Ev etei 1914, me tn Serbia kai ta Balkavia
upo katarreusn apo to Kaizer kai tous Aybourgous.
Trella...
Xrnstaras o Amalnkitns
Panagiotis J. Karras
Den }erw pote 0a to diabasei ayto h Giola, alla to stelnw gia opoion
endiaferetai, kai gia thn idia bebaia, an 0elei na apanthsei:
> > > "As upo0esoume oti enas poliths exei mia paradosh. px thn paradosh
> > > ths ellhnikothtas kata th 0wma. Ti epipros0etes dunatothtes exei
> > > autos o 'poliths+ellhnas' na suneisferei sthn euhmeria ths xwras,
> > > pou einai kleistes gia ena aplo polith h' ena polith me diaforetikh
> > > paradosh?".
> >
> > Exei endexomenws epipros0eto *kinhtro* na syneisferei sthn eyhmeria
> > ths xwras, ka0ws kai plhresterh gnwsh ths taytothtas kai twn
> > dynatothtwn ths idias ths xwras, oxi twn dikwn toy. Yparxei dhladh
> > apotelesmatikoterh taytish toy polith me th xwra, h opoia einai
> > kleisth gia enan aplo polith h' ena polith me diaforetikh paradosh.
> > Twra bebaia mporeis na moy peis oti oyte oi polites me thn paradosh
> > poy ekproswpei th xwra ais0anontai aparaithta taytish me aythn, kai
> > 0a exeis dikio...
>
> Plhresterh gnwsh..., apotelesmatikoterh tautish.....
>
> Giati den les ANWTERH na teleiwnoume?
Epeidh den *ennow* `anwterh'. Ennow ayto poy eipa. Gia paradeigma an egw
ki esy eimastan polites toy Israhl, tote esy 0a eixes endexomenws epipros0eto
*kinhtro* apo mena na syneisfereis sthn eyhmeria ths xwras, ka0ws kai
plhresterh gnwsh ths taytothtas kai twn dynatothtwn ths idias ths xwras, oxi
twn dikwn soy. 8a eixes dhladh apotelesmatikoterh taytish soy me th xwra,
ap' o,ti egw, afoy h ayth einai kleisth gia enan aplo polith h' ena polith
me diaforetikh paradosh, dhladh gia mena.
Se parakalw, an diafwneis, e}hghse moy poy' kanw la0os.
Afoy moy e}hghseis poy diafwneis, an diafwneis, des thn protash moy gia
sena, dedomenoy oti exeis Ebraikh paradosh, kai pes moy se parakalw an kapoy
kanw la0os:
Pisteyw oti to ellhniko kratos prepei na sebastei apolyta th diaforetikh
paradosh soy kai na soy fer0ei opws ayth ypagoreyei. Gia na ma0oyme p'ws
ypagoreyei h dikh soy diaforetikh Ebraikh paradosh na fer0ei ena kratos
se polites me diaforetikh paradosh, 0a prepei na doyme p'ws feretai to kratos
toy Israhl se tetoioys polites.
Loipon exoyme kai leme:
Ta melh ths Arabikhs meionothtas toy Israhl (1.000.000 atoma), den exoyn
dikaiwma ekloghs sthn kybernhsh toy kratoys, enw einai 0ymata periorismwn
oswn afora olws koinwnikes paroxes toy kratoys aytoy stoys polites toy, dhladh
px eisprattoyn mikrotero epidoma polyteknoy, epidoma anergias, klp.
Akribws ayta pisteyw oti ofeilei na kanei to Ellhniko kratoys se esena.
An diafwneis me to parapanw symperasma, pes moy se parakalw poy' akribws
brisketai to la0os ston parapanw syllogismo.
8a prospa0hsw na se prolabw:
An pisteyeis oti den prepei h Ellas na akoloy0hsei to paradeigma toy Israhl,
tote dikaiologhse moy se parakalw th stash toy Israhl, symfwna me th 0ewria
isopoliteias poy exeis eisagei.
> > > H proswpikh mou gnwmh einai oti den mporei na exei perissotes
> > > dunatothtes o "poliths+ellhnas" apo ton "polith+ebraio", apo
> > > ton 'polith+mousoulmano', ton 'polith+ka0oliko'
Tote giati o `poliths+moysoylmanos' den exei tis idia dikaiwmata me ton
`polith+ebraio' sto Israhl; Se parakalw, apanthse moy, dedomenoy oti apaiteis
na sebastw thn Ebraikh soy paradosh, thn opoia pragmati sebomai.
> > E}artatai poso "sobara" pairnoyn thn paradosh toys oi polites
> > aytoi. Afoy se exw }anarwthsei: pisteyeis oti enas py0menisths
> > mwame0anos (fundamental muslim) leitoyrgei panta yper ths
> > eyhmerias enos kratos me mh islamikh paradosh ws poliths toy;
> >
> > > kai ton 'polith+agnostikisth' se mia dhmokratikh xwra.
>
> Afhse tis dikolabies me tous fountamentalistes kai apofasise
> poso sobara epitrepetai na parei enas poliths me diaforetikh paradosh
> thn paradosh tou.
Den }erw, esy perimenw na moy peis, afoy esy sigoyra 0a katalabaineis
kalytera apo mena thn katastash sto Israhl, xarh sth diaforetikh paradosh soy.
> Mporeis na eisagageis kai mia klimaka sobarothtas me arista to deka.
Afoy to les esy, Ebraia oysa, etsi prepei na 'nai.
Kati 0a }erete eseis ap' ayta, etsi den einai;
> An 3eperasei to 7 ginetai epikindunos, kai ton metatrepoume se sapouni gia na
> exoume na niptoume tas xeiras mas!
Oxi, den ton metatrepete se sapoyni, toy afaireite mono to dikaiwma toy
ekleges0ai, to epidoma polyteknoy, klp. Giati to kanete ayto;
Giati den paradeigmatizeste apo emas, poy kai Toykroys boyleytes sto
Koinoboylio exoyme, kai esena epidoma polyteknoy 0a soy dwsoyme molis
gennhseis to 4o soy paidaki;
> > Gia dokimase loipon na "anadiplwseis to dynamiko soy" symfwna me mh
> > Iapwnikh paradosh sthn Iapwnia kai meta ta }analeme.
>
> Kai poios sou eipe oti auth einai h epi0umia mou?
> Pros to paron skeftomai na foresw to galanoleuko fanelaki mou kai
> na anadiplwsw to dunamiko mou sth Masalia.
Malista. Ka0oloy asxhmh idea. Soy eyxomai kalh epityxia se o,ti kaneis! :-)
Mporeis omws twra na apanthseis stis erwthseis moy peri Iapwnias kai
Israhl;
> > > Esena den se fobamai Karra mou :-). Oute th 0wma, pou leei oti
> > > oi ebraioi ths Salonikhs thn ploutizoune kai ths gemizoume tis
> >
> > To "-me" enai typografiko la0os 'h apokalypsh ths idiwsews soy;
>
> Me epiases sta prasa, karra mou.... Etsi apokalufthke h idiwsh
> mou kai h idiwteia kati allwn.
Poianwn h idiwteia apokalyf0hke;
> > > "nekres" periodous. Alla den 0a sou pw poious fobamai. Auto exei na
> > > kanei me thn idiwsh (!) mou sthn opoia prospa0eis epaneillhmena na
> > > eisbaleis.
> >
> > Ma giati; Afoy gi' ayto syzhtame!
>
> Gia thn idiwsh h' thn idiwteia ?
Gia toys poioys exeis na fobasai esy, oi Arabes toy Israhl kai oi }enoi ths
Iapwnias.
> > Eides poso poly se epirreazei h symmetoxh soy sthn paradosh mias
> > allhs xwras; Den mporeis na sygkentrw0eis! :-)
>
> Ti na kanw? Exw ki egw tis adunamies mou! Mou epitrepeis?
Egw soy epitrepw. Esy epitrepeis stoys Arabes toy Israhl na exoyn tis
dikes toys;
P K
Takis Karantonis
> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:47:31 +0300
> From: "Panagiotis J. Karras" <pka...@CC.ECE.NTUA.GR>
> Subject: Re: Diaforetikes Paradoseis
> Den }erw pote 0a to diabasei ayto h Giola, alla to stelnw gia opoion
> endiaferetai, kai gia thn idia bebaia, an 0elei na apanthsei:
Me thn adeia sou Panagiwth loipon, epitrepse mou merika sxolia,
mias kai aptesai kai twn dikwn mou paradosewn...
> > [snip - upo8etw oti to antikeimeno ths suzhthshs einai gnwsto]
> >
> > Giati den les ANWTERH na teleiwnoume?
>
Grafeis eis apanthsh:
> Epeidh den *ennow* `anwterh'. Ennow ayto poy eipa. Gia paradeigma an egw
> ki esy eimastan polites toy Israhl, tote esy 0a eixes endexomenws epipros0eto
> *kinhtro* apo mena na syneisfereis sthn eyhmeria ths xwras, ka0ws kai
> plhresterh gnwsh ths taytothtas kai twn dynatothtwn ths idias ths xwras, oxi
> twn dikwn soy. 8a eixes dhladh apotelesmatikoterh taytish soy me th xwra,
> ap' o,ti egw, afoy h ayth einai kleisth gia enan aplo polith h' ena polith
> me diaforetikh paradosh, dhladh gia mena.
>
> Se parakalw, an diafwneis, e}hghse moy poy' kanw la0os.
>
Pera apo thn e3airetika amfibolh nohmatikh antistoixia
erwthshs-apanthshs thn opoia antiparerxomai dioti den me afora, tolmw
na proseggisw ton sullogismo sou apo mia polu elafrws diaforetikh
pleura: Ws pote 8a sunexisoume na upomenoume ton odostrwtiko kai
epikinduno funktionalismo (sp?) pou antilambanetai ton
polith=kuttaro 'suntonismeno' kai programmatismeno na 'suneisferei'
ston 'zwntano organismo' tou opoiou 'pane8nous' ? (to opoio kata
sunepeia sunthrei gia tis opoies leitourgikes anwmalies ena
e3airetika apotelesmatiko anosologiko susthma pou apobalei ta kuttara
twn opoiwn h sumperifora apokleinei apo thn prodiagegrammenh)
Telika prepei na sumfwnhsw me oses/ous blepoun s' auth th lista thn
epistrofh sta sphlaia, opou einai dunaton sto katwfli ths 3hs
xilietias (kata to xristianiko hmerologio) na kanoume logo gia
periektikothta e8nikofrosunhs ('paradosh', 'ellhnikothta' to eipate?)
sthn 'suneidhsh' tou polith kai na 'metroume' thn propensity (sp?)
tou teleutaiou na 'suneisferei' sthn euhmeria ths opoias
'xwras'/'e8nous'/'patridas'. To olon 8a htan, mexri kai ilaro, an den
eixan prohgh8ei alla shmeia opws px. ta peri 'enothtos peprwmenou',
Or8odo3hs Ekklhsias/Ell. Dhmokratias h h epimonh tautish ths
stratokratikhs antilhpshs peri *amunas* me thn 'e8nikh amuna', h
gnwsth arxaioplh3ia kai loipa e8nikofolklorika.
Emena na mou epitrepseis na pinw sthn ugeia twn eleu8erwn kai
'anupotaktwn' politwn se ola ane3airetws ta plath kai ta mhkh pou
noiazontai polu perissotero gia to an exei 8ermansh to sxoleio twn
paidiwn tous kai gia tis sun8hkes apokomidhs aporrimmatwn sthn
koinothta tous, para gia thn afhrhmernh ugeia kai 'euhmeria' tou
'e8nous'.... Autous tous 8ewrw automatws sumpolites
mou...paradosiaka! (opws swsta upopsiazesai oloi ebraioi eimaste...)
> Afoy moy e}hghseis poy diafwneis, an diafwneis, des thn protash moy gia
> sena, dedomenoy oti exeis Ebraikh paradosh, kai pes moy se parakalw an kapoy
> kanw la0os:
>
> Pisteyw oti to ellhniko kratos prepei na sebastei apolyta th diaforetikh
> paradosh soy kai na soy fer0ei opws ayth ypagoreyei. Gia na ma0oyme p'ws
> ypagoreyei h dikh soy diaforetikh Ebraikh paradosh na fer0ei ena kratos
> se polites me diaforetikh paradosh, 0a prepei na doyme p'ws feretai to kratos
> toy Israhl se tetoioys polites.
Sofisteies Panagiwth... palia h ntrimpla, klassiko off-side kai
'unfair' (pou elege ki o Mhtsotakhs). Me thn idia ole8ria
(balkanikh...) 'logikh' h Ell. Dhmokratia 'xeirizetai' ta politika
kai an8rwpina dikaiwmata diaforwn meiwnothtwn sth bash ths
*amoibaiothtas*... h antistoixias, praktikh entelws aparadekth gia
opoiodhpote sugxronh kai eunomoumenh koinwnia pou sebetai to
dhmokratiko ths politeuma kai thn xarta twn an8rwpinwn dikaiwmatwn
tou OHE. Kat' auton ton tropo o mesos tourkos, ellhnas poliths, sthn
3an8h metatrepetai se upologo (otan den einai praktoras...) gia ta
ths Tourkias klp., epipleon de upestei kai foboumai oti sunexizei na
upoferei swreia diakrisewn (sta xartia kai sthn pra3h), 'logw
amoibaiothtas'. Pisw ap' auta bebaia uparxei h
anikanothta/anwrimothta ths Ell. Dhmokratias (kai koinwnias
fobamai...) kai na antape3el8ei me to gegonos twn meionothtwn alla
kai na metasxhmatis8ei s' ena kratos sugxronhs antilhpshs.
> [snip peri Israhl kai ths ontws aparadekths metaxeirhshs twn arabwn ppou
fusika me 'paradoseis' oudemia sxesh exei]
Sumperasma:
> Akribws ayta pisteyw oti ofeilei na kanei to Ellhniko kratoys se esena.
8libero... (pera apo tis dusarestes epiptwseis pou mporei na exei
sto trixwto ths kefalhs...)
opws kai ta epomena:
> [snip]
> An pisteyeis oti den prepei h Ellas na akoloy0hsei to paradeigma toy Israhl,
> tote dikaiologhse moy se parakalw th stash toy Israhl, symfwna me th 0ewria
> isopoliteias poy exeis eisagei.
> [snip: magkanophgado to 'epixeirhma']
exei kai anagkastika ozouses proektaseis:
>
> > Mporeis na eisagageis kai mia klimaka sobarothtas me arista to deka.
>
> Afoy to les esy, Ebraia oysa, etsi prepei na 'nai.
> Kati 0a }erete eseis ap' ayta, etsi den einai;
>
> Giati den paradeigmatizeste apo emas, poy kai Toykroys boyleytes sto
> Koinoboylio exoyme, kai esena epidoma polyteknoy 0a soy dwsoyme molis
> gennhseis to 4o soy paidaki;
Pws sou fainetai h idea h 'Ellas' na sugkrothsei ekstrateutiko swma
politeiakhs diapaidagwghshs. An den kanw la8os uparxei kai
sxetikh empeiria sthn serbia kai thn serbobosnia... opou h
politikostratiwtikh 'mas' uposthri3h uphr3e ka8' ola 'amempth'
(8umizw btw. oti s' auth thn lista o Netaniaxou etuxe
kata kairous ektimhshs ws 'isxuros anhr', san ki autous pou 'mas
leipoun' ston xeirismo twn e3' anatolwn)
> [snip]
>
> Poianwn h idiwteia apokalyf0hke;
ela nte...! (sthn xwra pou zw 8a xrhsimopoiousan gia thn periptwsh
thn ell. le3h: 'antologico!')
> [snip]
> Egw soy epitrepw. Esy epitrepeis stoys Arabes toy Israhl na exoyn tis
> dikes toys [paradoseis];
Gia kati tetoia, 3ereis (8a toxeis toulaxiston dei kai stis tainies
tou Woody Allen) prepei prwta na rwthsw ton rabbino ths enorias
mou....
shalom
takis karantonis
PS: Panagiwth, filika: mhn uperamunesai toso pia twn patriwn bomwn
kai estiwn dioti exw thn entupwsh oti exei ginei kai ligo tsirko kai
telos pantwn eipame *e8nikofronwn* alla mh to 3eftulizeis kiolas...
(meta3u allwn exoun kai oi bwmoi kai oi esties mia kapoia
a3ioprepeia...)
Nikos Sarantakos
At 07:49 ðì 06/07/98 +0200, Takis Karantonis wrote:
>> Egw soy epitrepw. Esy epitrepeis stoys Arabes toy Israhl na exoyn tis
>Gia kati tetoia, 3ereis (8a toxeis toulaxiston dei kai stis tainies
>tou Woody Allen) prepei prwta na rwthsw ton rabbino ths enorias
>mou....
>
>shalom
>
>takis karantonis
ths listas kai den kserei oti oloi
emeis oi orqodoksoi ebraioi exoume paradoseis xilietiwn,
pou den tis ekfrazei auto to qlibero mesanatoliko kratidio
hlikias molis 50 etwn.
ns
Takis Karantonis
Mou grafei o Nikos sxetika me ta peri 'ebraiwn' pou proekupsan s'
auto to thread:
>
> Koitakse, Takh, o Panagiwths einai o monos 'gentile'
> ths listas kai den kserei oti oloi
> emeis oi orqodoksoi ebraioi exoume paradoseis xilietiwn,
> pou den tis ekfrazei auto to qlibero mesanatoliko kratidio
> hlikias molis 50 etwn.
O monos ?... Apo tis diakladwseis auths ths suzhthshs gnwrizoume oti
o Panagiwths ka8e allo para 'monos' tou einai eis tas 8ermopulas pou
exei thn parais8hsh oti uperaspizei...
Blepeis pws me to paramikro, an8izei ekeino to palaio-neoellhniko
sundromo tou 'anadelfou' 'e8nous' (TM:Sartzetakhs),
gewgrafikhs xersonhsou alla politistikhs kai koinwnikhs nhsou, eis
aei 'en amunei' kai me xilies duo upar3iakes agwnies kai ba8eies
mona3ies ?
Blepeis pws an8oun oi pantws eidous uperrealistikoi
'patriwtismoi', idioi apomonwmenwn kai 'nhsiwtikwn' dedomenwn (apo
tous polemoxareis tupou 'nintendo', pernwntas apo 'neo-or8odo3ous',
kata8lhptikous arxaiolatres, kai ftanontas stous grafikous
fasistoeideis tou entelws glukou nerou)...
Ti sumbainei loipon stis ta3eis twn Danawn ? Giati toses enagwnies
omfaloskopiseis kai ekneurismoi ?
Oi Trwes lene, adiaforoun gia ta dwra... (hdh ginetai logos gia
ioudaio-maswniko daktulo)
takis karantonis
PS. Alh8eia pws 8a metafrazame sta ellhnika thn le3h: tribalism ?
Panagiotis J. Karras
Katarxas Takh 0elw na moy e}hghseis an eisai Ebraios kai ti akribws
paristaneis esy kai o allos o gnwstos eirwn kai ratsisths ths listas.
> > Koitakse, Takh, o Panagiwths einai o monos 'gentile'
> > ths listas kai den kserei oti oloi
> > emeis oi orqodoksoi ebraioi exoume paradoseis xilietiwn,
> > pou den tis ekfrazei auto to qlibero mesanatoliko kratidio
> > hlikias molis 50 etwn.
>
> O monos ?... Apo tis diakladwseis auths ths suzhthshs gnwrizoume oti
> o Panagiwths ka8e allo para 'monos' tou einai eis tas 8ermopulas pou
> exei thn parais8hsh oti uperaspizei...
Den parais0an0hka pote oti yperaspizomai kati. Egw apla lew p'ws exoyn
ta pragmata.
> Blepeis pws me to paramikro, an8izei ekeino to palaio-neoellhniko
> sundromo tou 'anadelfou' 'e8nous' (TM:Sartzetakhs),
Ti ennoeis; Pote milhsa egw gia e0niko anadelfismo;
> gewgrafikhs xersonhsou alla politistikhs kai koinwnikhs nhsou, eis
> aei 'en amunei' kai me xilies duo upar3iakes agwnies kai ba8eies
> mona3ies ?
Ti ennoeis; 8a mas e}hghseis tipota 'h 0a synexiseis na aerologeis;
> Blepeis pws an8oun oi pantws eidous uperrealistikoi
> 'patriwtismoi', idioi apomonwmenwn kai 'nhsiwtikwn' dedomenwn (apo
> tous polemoxareis tupou 'nintendo', pernwntas apo 'neo-or8odo3ous',
> kata8lhptikous arxaiolatres, kai ftanontas stous grafikous
> fasistoeideis tou entelws glukou nerou)...
Ti ennoeis; Poioi einai oloi aytoi oi parapanw; Me emena de miloyses;
> Ti sumbainei loipon stis ta3eis twn Danawn ? Giati toses enagwnies
> omfaloskopiseis kai ekneurismoi ?
Poies omfaloskopiseis kai poioi ekneyrismoi;
> Oi Trwes lene, adiaforoun gia ta dwra... (hdh ginetai logos gia
> ioudaio-maswniko daktulo)
Ti ennoeis;
> takis karantonis
>
>
> PS. Alh8eia pws 8a metafrazame sta ellhnika thn le3h: tribalism ?
Fyletismos.
P K
Peter PETROPOULOS
On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Takis Karantonis wrote:
> PS. Alh8eia pws 8a metafrazame sta ellhnika thn le3h: tribalism ?
Av o Mpampiviwtns grapsei pote Agglo-Ellnviko leksiko tote vomizw
oti 0a metafrasei to ``tribalism'' ws ``syvtsiftetellnvismos''...
Petros
Nikos Sarantakos
At 05:30 ìì 06/07/98 +0300, Panagiotis J. Karras wrote:
> Katarxas Takh 0elw na moy e}hghseis an eisai Ebraios kai ti akribws
>paristaneis esy kai o allos o gnwstos eirwn kai ratsisths ths listas.
>
Panagiwth eisai qhsauros! Xwris na ftaneis to Dwro (pou' sai re Koutale)
eisai to kati allo se touth dw th lista.
H pio panw paragrafos einai apostagma. Polu mou arese.
ns
Giati xairetai o kosmos kai xamogela mhtera?
(erwthsh mikrou Norbhgou pros thn Koreatisa mhtera
tou, ustera apo episkepsh ston dhmofilestero ellhna
ths Xristianias/Oslo)
Lida Anestidou
Nikos Sarantakos wrote:
>
> Kai gia na mhn phgainoume makria, Giwrgo.
> ellhnes apo thn Polh. Kainourgious prosfuges,
> tou 55 kai meta (kuriws apo to 73-74).
> Ekei den uparxei h dikaiologia tou 1922, ki
> omws oi ntopioi sthn pleiopshfia tous, tous
> antimetwpizoun exqrika. Hrqan oi tourkosporoi
> kai anebasan tis times, lene.
kai gw sto palio falhro menw (oxi "menw" a la 40kati)kai apo Polh bastaw
kai sogia kai gnwstous me th sesoula apo Polh meria dia8etw, akai exw na
pw ta e3hs:
Ex8rika den antimetwpizontai kat'arxhn.
kata deuteron, oi idioi tous frontisan na kanoun ta panta wste na mhn
ginoun integrated me ton upoloipo plh8usmo. Otan pas sto super market
kai akous tis 2 kuries na suzhtoun meta3u tous sta tourkika kai na
kathgoroun to souper market, tis times tou kai thn allada genikotera, de
xreiazetai pollh filosofia gia na tis antipa8hseis. Yp'ospin oti autoi
einai oi idioi an8rwpoi pou elegan na fugoun apo thn polh gia na er8oun
sthn ellada na mhn tous kunhga kaneis otan miloun ellhnika, kai erxontai
edw kai miloun tourkika.
Oi idioi ka8usterhsan thn ellhnikh uphkoothta twn agoriwn wste ta paidia
na mhn uphrethsoun ston ellhniko strato men, alla na ekmetaleutoun tis
eidikes eisagwges sta AEI de. Oi idioi kai oi idies opou sta8oun kai
opou bre8oun, arxizoun tis protaseis: de lew bre paidi mou, alla sthn
Polh...klpklpklp..kai akolou8ei katebato egkwmio ths
Kwnstantinoupolitikhs zwhs pou egkatelleipsan.
Anebasan tis times?
bebaiws kai tis anebasan.
bebaiws kai oi mises polukatoikies pou ktisthkan sto palio falhro apo to
75 kai meta anhkoun se kwnstantinoupolites.
bebaiws kai exoun er8ei (polloi, eidika sto Falhro) me tou kosmou ta
lefta apo thn Polh kai agorasan diamerismata kai ka8ontai kai
kathgoroune. Den einai oloi plousioi, alla oi perissoteroi hr8an me
kaluteres oikonomikes sun8hkes apo autes pou eixan oi antistoixoi
ellhnes ths epoxhs.
>, oi atsides ellhnes dikhgoroi
> phgainan sta upoqhkofulakeia, epairnan
> antigrafo tou sumbolaiou kai to estelnan
> sthn tourkikh presbeia, opote o Poliths
> kleinotan fulakh. H tarifa gia thn prodosia
> htan, nomizw, penhnta xiliarika.
ela re Niko, ela re..prwth fora to akouw auto kai amfibalw paraparapoly
gia tou logou to alh8es.
giati de les gia tis e3agores twn xronwn uphresias se douleies sthn Polh
pou uparxoun dikhgoroi pou sta e3agorazoun kai ta pas sto IKA, mika ,
suka kai sta anagnwrizei, enw kanonika den 8a eprepe?
Lhda
Lida Anestidou
Panagiotis J. Karras wrote:
>
> Katarxas Takh 0elw na moy e}hghseis an eisai Ebraios kai ti akribws
> paristaneis esy kai o allos o gnwstos eirwn kai ratsisths ths listas.
katarxas Panagiwth 8elw na mou e3hghseis an eisai ratsisths kai ti
akribws paristaneis esy kai o allos o gnwstos eirwn kai antisiwnisths
ths listas.
>
> Den parais0an0hka pote oti yperaspizomai kati. Egw apla lew p'ws exoyn
> ta pragmata.
Den parais8an8hka pote oti uperaspizomai kati. Egw apla lew pws exoun ta
pragmata (kata thn apopsh mou bebaia)
>
>
> Ti ennoeis; 8a mas e}hghseis tipota 'h 0a synexiseis na aerologeis;
>
ti ennoeis, Panagiwth? 8a mas e3hghseis tipote h 8a sunexiseis na
aerologeis peri ellhna polith kai or9odo3ias, kai nomwn tou kratous gia
isopoliteia ?
>
> Ti ennoeis; Poioi einai oloi aytoi oi parapanw; Me emena de miloyses;
ti ennoeis? poioi einai oi arxaiolatreis, arxaiokaphloi, ellhnofrones,
ellhnoxristianoi, ellhnes me sfragida tou kratous? gia aytous de
milouses?
to arxidiabolaki>:>