Mark Isham Interview (jazz-soundtracks)
Andreas G. Veneris
-Andreas
Exclusive interview with Mark Isham
" A Man with a Horn"
-by Andreas Veneris, September 1995
One thing that popular music has proved throughout the years
is that it follows trends. We all have cds that we once loved, music that
used to occupy easily accessible space on the shelf, music that had top
position on charts and annoyingly repeated play on radio stations. That music
now probably lies somewhere forgotten, dusted and darkened, denounced or even
derided. On the other hand, if music is to be and stay a form of artistic
expression of human kind then, by definition, it has to stay fresh and
indelible, free of trends and expiration date tags. Maybe that's one of the
reasons that jazz is everlasting. Maybe because it's so real.
For someone who has seriously spent some time listening or performing
jazz, its remembrance becomes like a woman or a man that will never be
forgotten, a perfume that brings on emotion and sensuality, a tear that
never becomes cold. Such is the case of Mark Isham, a successful
soundtrack-music composer who started playing the trumpet as a teenager and
now, in his early forties, grabs the opportunity to release his first
long-awaited solo jazz album, 'Blue Sun', through Columbia Records.
For Mark Isham, music has been his life, or at least a big part of
it. Isham is married with three lively kids. As a child he learnt playing
violin and piano, but soon turned into trumpet performing for the Oakland and
San Fransisco Symphonies. At the same time he started his performances with
rock groups, Van Morisson and Beach Boys among others, performing live from
club-houses to open-air arenas. He often contributes to rock music as his
recent work in Rolling Stone's 'Voodoo Lounge'. His interests in jazz,
though, pushed him towards less structured music forms. In 1980 with his
Group 87 he became capable of exploring more progressive and experimental
aspects of jazz/fusion. Soon after, his first job as a composer for film
music arrived, a Walt Disney movie 'Never Cry Wolf, a career as one of the
most succesful soundtrack composers of Hollywood emerged.
'The Net', 'Point Break', 'Romeo is Bleeding', 'The Moderns',
'Short Cuts', 'Home for the Holidays', the Robert Redford combo 'A Rivers
Runs Through It' (Grammy nominated) and 'Quiz Show' are some of the
films that offered hospitality to Isham's music and also provided a
backbone for him to express his extended interest in jazz. In the meantime,
and in between projects, he dedicated some of his efforts to a solo career
that included the 'Vapor Drawings' album on Windham Hill, an album by many
saluted as the new age face of Mark Isham, and the Grammy winning self-titled
album, back in 1990. At that time, Mark Isham put an acoustic band together,
David Goldblatt on piano, Steve Tavaglione on tenor saxophone and long-time
friend and fellow collaborator, Kurt Wortman on drums. They started playing
in smokey, moody Los Angeles bars the music which always allured them: jazz.
If you might have already been wondering where he finds the time to run all
those projects together you will be surprised to hear that earlier this year
he composed and recorded with the above people his first solo
modernistic-jazz album, 'Blue Sun', an album that bears similarities both
in structure and acoustics to Mark Isham's long time idol, Miles Davis.
I had the chance to talk to Mark Isham one fine morning in
September, a week before his debut appearence at Monterrey Jazz Festival. He
was calm and overwhelming. His voice was determined but charming. I had all
the reasons to believe that a nice interview was coming through.
AV: Mr Isham, why have you decided to work on a jazz project, something that
is unlikely to bring a financial success and has strong competition?
MI: It's just exciting to me. It is what I really wanted to do when I was a
teenager, and I really worked very hard to know how to do it. I tried to
keep it going all these years but now I have that sort of financial security
to do it because of the film business.
AV: Although you have been a fan of jazz music for almost three
decades, and had the opportunity to release a lot of albums of various
kinds of music, 'Blue Sun' is your first real attempt to work on 'pure' jazz.
Is there any particular reason behind this delay?
MI: By the time I got my first deal (with Group 87, ed) back in the late
70s, we were all interested in expanding our way from pure jazz and sort of
bringing all different types of music together. Later, when I was signed by
Windham Hill, they had no interest in jazz at all. There were all those
practical reasons just not making a jazz record. At this point, all of the
sudden, I said to myself ... why not?! (he laughs) Then Columbia Records
offered me this contract and I explained to them that I would like to work on
a jazz record. They were really enthusiastic about the idea.
AV: Is your contract under the Jazz branch of Columbia Records?
MI: No, I have a deal by which I can make any kind of record I like. If it
is a jazz record, they will work on it. If it is more crossover there will
be other people working on it from the same label.
AV: Why did you pick Windham Hill by that time? Their direction did not
seem to suit your interests.
MI: It didn't, but they were interested at that time in expanding their
horizons. The person who brought me in contact with them liked my music. He
told them that my music will not offend the style of music the label
carries and will also push the boundaries. We made 'Vapor Drawings' and they
were positive. It really was the first record to push Windham Hill over the
limits.
AV: Is it true that they had to hear the final project first, and then
release it?
MI: Yes, this is true, they were nervous since it was the first time they
were working with something which was not acoustic music, but at the end the
release of the album proved to be beneficial for both parties.
AV: Now, that you have the flexibility to express yourself in jazz, what is
your vision as a jazz musician?
MI: I like the fact that for a long time this band stayed acoustic. The
record is acoustic, but in the long run I can see this band evolving in a way
Weather Report did, perhaps some more and strange ranges of sound, become
more of an electric band, that's very possible.
AV: Do you plan to do some work with vocals with this band?
MI: I have it in my mind to do a separate project with four or five singers
and song writers but for this band I'd like to keep it pure and keep it
instrumental.
AV: Are you afraid of the various labels people are trying to put on
everybody's music?
MI: I believe that labels are fine if they help advance your music
but if they start to style your creativity then there's a problem. This far,
in Columbia, I have a freedom of choice and expression and this, as a
musician, couldn't find me happier.
AV: At this point I would like to elaborate more on your education
as a musician. That means that we have to go back 27 years (he laughs).
You started your studies in classical music, what has been your relation
with classical music all those years?
MI: As a professional I realised when I was in my early 20s that it would
be difficult for me to really sort of stay in that world. It is a world with
intense competition and quite frankly, my interest in it was not quite
strong to motivate me to get to the top of the profession. I was more
interested in jazz and electronic music and I didn't have the motivation to
work hard in classical music. I've chosen other routes but have sort of kept
my foot in the door a little bit.
AV: Certainly! I can see influences from classical music in your work, in
soundtrack scores and especially 'Vapor Drawings'. Moreover, in classical
music, there's little space for improvisation, if not at all.
MI: Hmm, I can argue on that, I mean, in certain types of more modern
classical music, people are experimenting with trying to put in not
improvisation in the jazz sense, but random and chance elements into the
music. That's actually an area I'm very-very interested in.
AV: In what sense...? Compositionally.
MI: Yes, compositionally. You write in such a way that you give not
necessarily the notes to the people to play, but you give them instructions.
It becomes more of a style of composition. On the other hand, in classical
music there's no improvisation like in the blues music, the guitar player
is improvising, or in jazz where the saxophone player does so.
AV: My personal guess would be that your classical education has intensively
assisted you when you came to the point to structure music for soundtrack
scores.
MI: It's been of great help because in film music you're asked to have
a wide range of music to rely on. Being able to write music for orhestra
has helped a lot from this aspect.
AV: Suddenly, your interest was absorbed by jazz. What was the reason for
that?
MI: Miles Davis was probably the major reason and a few years later the
Weather Report was a big influence on me.
AV: So you're indeed a big fan of fusion.
MI: Oh, yes! When I start listening to Miles Davis it was the time that he
started working with guitar and a more electric sound (late 60's-early 70s,
'Bitches Brew', 'A Tribute to Jack Johnson' etc, ed). That's my real favorite
stuff. I have another band here in Los Angeles, the Silent Way Project, that
we play only live and doing all that Miles Davis 1969-1975 music.
AV: That also gives a valid argument why 'Blue Sun' is a reminiscence of
Miles Davis from a different era.
MI: It certainly does, my personality as a trumpet player has been heavily
influenced by Miles Davis and whatever he has done artistically. He was one
of the strongest reasons for me to start listening and practicing in jazz.
AV: Now you've got me a little bit confused when I'm trying to blend all the
above with your history as being one of the most succesful contemporary
soundtrack scores writer!
MI: It is really funny how I started. I had written some music for
synthesizers and Chinese instruments with a friend of mine who specializes
in that. We wanted to make a record but we didn't get the deal so we kind of
forgot about it until a film director heard it and liked it and he asked
me to try writing something for him. He gave me two or three scenes, I worked
on it and he liked it. I was offered this opportunity, it was a lot of hard
work but it was interesting work. This was for 'Never Cry Wolf', a Walt
Disney film back in 1980.
AV: It seems that you like to deal with a variety of orhestration
arrangements, instrument sounds and compositional forms. It is hard to
believe that it comes from the mouth of somebody that a couple of years ago
declared himself to be 'a minimalistic in music'.
MI: (he laughs) It depends on the way you define it. You can define
minimalist as someone who thinks in general that less is more. In that case
perhaps Miles Davis is a bit of a minimalist, anybody who tends to play less
notes rather than more notes, or writes less notes, someone like Brian Eno
who is interested in doing things very simply and plain as opposed to
Shostakovich or Chick Corea. I'm definitely not a minimalist on the amount
of work that I do. I work a lot, I do a lot of projects, in that sense I
turn a lot of projects in a year.
AV: Therefore your minimalism involves your conceptual orientation towards
writing music?
MI: It does, I feel that when you can say something with two notes, why use
six? I'd rather find two notes to make it sound good than six notes that will
make it sound busy.
AV: What is the impact of this attitude?
MI: I think it helps to communicate better. Music, and every form of art, is
like a language. The more successful that language is and the better use of
it, the better it is communicating. That makes it a better art. To me,
personally, I find to communicate better if I find the right and smaller
number of notes in general. That is not to say that somebody cannot
communicate with complex structures, and I found that in film music many
times over the years. There're certain situations that you want to
communicate that certain kind of thing and a lot of notes is the best way to
do that. When you want to communicate the idea of frantic motion and
hysteria, for instance, then really the best way is to pile as many notes
as you can.
AV: As a music composer for films, a role that you have very successfuly
retained for over a decade, how much freedom do you have over the music you
write?
MI: It really has to do with the director. Some directors have a strong idea
of what they want to do and sometimes they're right. Sometimes they're not
as right as they think they are and you have to get into a discussion to
change their mind because you have a different approach on how things are
supposed to be done.
AV: Do you cut the music according to the picture or the other way around?
MI: There're very few directors who would like to do the opposite but quite
surprisingly there are cases that you have to cut the picture according to
the music. Think of it this way: if you start a groove, if you start a beat,
you cannot always, all of a sudden, cut a beat out of it and make it sound
good at the same time. You cannot take time out. All music, in some certain
degree, has that kind of problem, that if you start changing the time so
much, then you interfere with the actual structure of the music and ...
AV: ... and it might fall apart.
MI: Exactly, it will fall apart. I don't personally believe that picture has
the same problem, picture does not have an intrinsic tempo which is quite as
crucial.
AV: I'd have to argue about that. It's hard to believe that a Hitchcock film
does not have that kind of intrinsic sequence of events.
MI: I don't necessary disagree with this either, but I feel that a
certain amount of give and take, back and forth, can be valuable for both
sides. The truth that matters is that it doesn't happen this way. In a
period of 13 years working in the film industry I can hardly remember one
editor willing to change the picture in order to help the music.
AV: As you go along, would you like to work with more independent filmakers
who will give you a wider range of freedom and experimentation?
MI: This is definitely the case, the more independent the film tends to be
the more adventurous film with more adventurous music and experimentation
everywhere will become. I always try to find a couple of such films to work
every year. If a film is destined to be commercially succesful most of the
times it is conservative and its music will also be conservative.
AV: I must admit, though, that you have been a very fortunate man!
Throughout your history as a soundtrack composer, you were given the
opportunity to cover many aspects of jazz, a subject of your favor. From
the 'Quiz Show' to the futuristic and great favorite of mine 'Romeo is
Bleeding' you worked with music which covers every jazz 'season'.
MI: That is one of my favorite soundtracks (Romeo is Bleeding). I loved
doing it, it was an adventurous soundtrack, not very often do you have
people who are willing to let you be that sort of adventurous-some.
AV: What films are you currently working on?
MI: I just finished Jodie Foster's film, 'Home for the Holiday'. It is kind
of jazzy music, Jodie Foster loves jazz. It is sort of New Orleans but also
sort of '50s cool-jazz, it has both little points of view.
AV: What kind of jazz attracts you, what role would you be willing to play?
Would you ever pictured yourself as the leader of a big-band, for instance?
MI: (Pause) No, I haven't really. It would be fun to do it but I actually
prefer the intimacy of a small group, because that's where the real
improvisation can take place. As a jazz player, it's the improvisation that
interests me.
AV: Improvisation ... my belief is that there could have been more
improvisation in your new release 'Blue Sun'.
MI: I made a consious decision at the recording of this record that we will
keep the actual sort of solos not too long. I think in a record environment
this adjusts the record to communicate better. I think a jazz record is not
like a jazz performance. When you perform the music live, there's a lot
more improvisation, it goes to more different places. I had consiously made
that decision because I looked back and I said 'What made Kind of Blue such
a great record?'. One of the reasons is that it is very concise, they say
what they say, they say it simply and it gives a very powerful feeling.
AV: From what you've said I should assume that you will also tour with this
band.
MI: Oh definitely. In fact this weekend we will be playing at the Monterrey
Jazz festival, in the first week of October we will be in London for the
Soho Jazz Festival and in November we will be working our way on the East
Coast.
AV: As far as I know, you have extensively toured in past, from small
capacity clubs to huge arena shows. How does it feel to play live in front
of thousands of people?
MI: You know, it's a very interesting phenomenon. When you're on stage with
that many people, it's less intimate. You're far away from the audience, you
don't feel connected with the audience -at least I didn't- and I didn't
find it that much of a joy. I personally prefer to play in clubs, in front
of some hundred, or a couple of thousands, people. You can make a very
immediate connection to the audience.
AV: Well, if music is considered to be a mean of communication between the
people who perform and the people who audition, then playing in clubs should
be able to fulfill this need in a better manner.
MI: Oh yes, in my mind, making music is without a doubt a means of
communication. There will definitely be some touring in clubs for this
album, I really want to promote it and I will keep myself on the road the
most I can.
AV: Mr Isham, I'd like to thank you for your time and this interview.
MI: You're very welcome.
-Andreas Veneris aven...@students.uiuc.edu
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