Ta kala

4 views
Skip to first unread message

Christos Papadas

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:49:59 PM11/25/02
to
Hli0ie, hli0ie, nli0ie, av n3eres stoixeiwdeis arxes prosfras-zntnsns
sketa stoixeidn pragmata dev 0a rwtages tis malakies pou 0eteis.
Oxi aplws dev exei logous n amerikn va epidiwkei to pegging twv
allwv vomismatwv me to dollario (oi alles xwres to epediw3av maviwdws
kai suxva nli0ia) alla ndn gvwrizoume oti elaxistn epiptwsn 0a eixe
stnv amerikavikn oikovomia akoma kai av to dollario exave tn prwtoka0edria
tou sav *to* meso die0vwv suvallagwv. O filos sou o Krugman eixe kavei
malista kai mia polu kaln meletn se auto, pou epikaleitai akoma kai sta
eklaikeumeva biblia tou. Mexri tn Kuriakn pou teleiwvei eva suvedrio pou
filo3evoume edw eimai polu busy gia tis blakeies sou kai tis....
oikovomikopolitikokoivwvikogeostratngikes malakies kai suvwmosies sou.
Meta euxaristws va asxoln0w me tnv pveumatikn sou avapnria, tn Rwmn, kai to
giati bgazei lefta autos pou katasparassei tov kosmo. Ka0ws episns kai me
tous
nfaisteiogeveis seismous kai tnv epidrasn tous stn sugxrovn yuxavalusn...

Kitsos

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dandulakis" <dan...@bellsouth.net>
To: "Christos Papadas" <cp...@AUA.GR>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 4:59 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Ta kala


> "Christos Papadas" <cp...@AUA.GR> wrote in message news...
> >
> > ... xrats tou kosmou oi blakies ...
>
>
> Gia th Sobietia eftaige o koumounismos.
> Gia thn Argentinh eftaige h "kserw gw mpla-mpla".
> Gia thn Indonhsia eftaige h "kserw gw mpla-mpla"
> Gia th Tourkia eftaige h "kserw gw mpla-mpla".
> Gia thn Ispania eftaige h "kserw gw mpla-mpla".
>
> To gegonos oti "petuxe" autos pou exei katasparraksei
> ton kosmo me ta opla tou,- einai aplws tuxaio. H Rwmh
> xtristhke giati eixe "kapitalismo", kai oxi giati eixe opla.
> H gouaspia exei th mish oikonomia ths kratika
> sxedeiasmenh,- alla pali o "kapitalismos" thn eftiakse.
>
> Oust, re karablaka.
>
>
> Gr
>
>
>

Yiannis Trifillis

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:50:30 PM11/25/02
to
Alh8es.
Pro 5 etias, meta apo epimonh filoy, paraggelia 2 temaxia apo katalogo
sto Amsterdam kai erxontai sto ksenodoxeio h Sara kai h Mara (leme
twra).
Oi opoies htan telika apo thn endoksh ellhnikh eparxia (karaellhnides).
Kai phgane na mas klepsoyne kiolas.

yt

> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Hellenic Discussion List
> [mailto:HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Spyro Markadonakis
> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 10:48 AM
> To: HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU
> Subject: Re: Ta kala
>
>
> Jereis poses Ellnvides jepouliovtai edw;
>
> Ekatovtades.
>
> Oi plnrofories eivai egkures kai proerxovtai apo
> suvadelfous sou twv Kupriakwv aerogrammwv
> pou exouv eva reputation (pws to eixe pei n Lnda 0umnse mou;)
> xeirotero ki apo tous pilotous tns Olumpiakns sto sugkekrimevo.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Spyros Markadonakis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andreas Dakanalis" <ad...@FREEMAIL.GR>
> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
> To: <HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 11:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Ta kala
>
>
> > Dutikes dev eivai movo Ellnvides :-)
> > Kai dev avaferomouv stnv Ellada movo :-)
> >
> > Avdreas.
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: The Hellenic Discussion List
> > > [mailto:HEL...@lists.psu.edu] On Behalf Of Tranos Nektarios
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 7:12 PM
> > > To: HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU
> > > Subject: Re: Ta kala
> > >
> > >
> > > > > pairneis ena paradeigma mias xwras 40 ekat ???
> > > > > den antilegw thn katantia tous ...
> > > > > edw omws kateruse o "sosialismos " mias yperdynamhs , kai
> > > ths mishs
> > > > > Eurwphs !!! ayto pou to pas ??
> > > > >
> > > > > Xereis poses anatolikes phdiountai sthn dytikh Eypwrh gia ena
> > > > > kommati pswmi ... Na ta blepoume ola : - )
> > > > >
> > > > Kai mia poutavaferame, 3ereis poses dutikes pndiouvtai stnv
> > > Dusn; Ola
> > > > ma ooooola va ta blepoume Trave :-)))))
> > >
> > > Kyta an toso deis posostiaia , tote sta kolompara ths Syggrou
> > > yparxoun 99% anatolikes kai 1% Ellhnides .h. alles dytikes .:- )
> > >
> > > PS . Proswpika an kai pinw syxna potaki mou se magazi filou
> > > sthn Suggrou , den exw dei pote mou Ellhnida !!!! :- )
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Avdreas.
> > >
>
>

Spyro Markadonakis

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:50:33 PM11/25/02
to

Andreas Dakanalis

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:50:40 PM11/25/02
to

Christos Papadas

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:51:01 PM11/25/02
to
Pws mporei evas av0rwpos estw kai davdoulotrompas va koubalaei tosa
skata sto kefali tou??? Apolauste!

> Apokwdikopoihsh: (1) Prepei na melethseis to ti exei kanei h gouaspia
> sth Latinikh Amerikh apo tis arxes tou 19ou aiwna kai enteuqen.

Dioti profavws auto ftaiei pou afou skistnkav va kratnsouv to vomisma
tous sta0ero, meta arxisav tis mikres aveparkeis upotimnseis, gia va
odngnsouv fusiologikotata me basn tnv ws twra empeiria prosdokiwv
stn mazikn fugn kefalaiwv kai katarreusn tou vomismatos!! To ti ekave
n gousaspia to...19 aiwva ftaiei gia tnv vomismatikn politikn
tns Kevtrikns Trapezas sto Buenos Aires!! Malakodavdoula...

> Sou leipei pantelws h raxokokalia ths gewpolitikhs tuxhs auths
> ths perioxhs

Ka0ws kai n elikwsis b twv saligkarwv se suvdiasmo me tnv efarmogn
tns stis 0alassies biokoivotntes.

(snip ta skata, polla skata)

>H prosfath katar-
> reush ths Argentinhs htan mia kala sxedeiasmenh xrhmato-
> oikonomikh apostaqeropoihsh apo th gouaspia.

Suvomwsia!! Kai oi ebraioi?? Pou eivai oi ebraioi?? Otav
katerreav ta xrnmatistnria kai ta vomismata tns Asias o Maxatir
tns Malaisias, kai autos suvomwsies eblepe kai katovomaze
kai tous suvomwtes: Oi siwvistes....


>Mexri th
> teleutaia stigmh h Argentinh ekane eklush sth gouaspia na th
> bohqhsei na prosperasei tis emfanisqeises taseis oikonomikhs
> astaqeias,-

Auto pou dev pervietai me tipota eivai oi emfavis0eises taseis tns
pveumatikns sou asta0eias.

>ligo-polu me tous idious orous pou h Fed kanei
> twra manoubres gia na parakamfqei katarreush en Ouza,-
> me to na ruqmizei ta epitokia deontws.

Dnladn?? Morfwse me, emeva pou ws movetaristns pisteuw oti eisai
malakas kai esu kai oloi osoi sta diafora Feds paizouve me ta epitokia
avti va ta kavouve evdogevn metablntn. Kai fusika ta avebokatebasmata
deixvouv poso avapotelesmatikn ntav ousiastika ntav n elpidofora peri
epevdusewv politikn tous... Prosfata to eipe e3orgismevos kai evas apo to
Board of Governors alla ti ta yaxveis, ekei autoi agoravomia sta epitokia,
auto snmaivei politikn epitokiwv avti eleu0ero prosdiorismo tous stnv agora
daveiakwv kefalaiwv. Agoravomia kai mauragoristimos stn vomismatikn
politikn, auto eivai oi politikes epitokiwv, alla ti ftaiei n amerikn gia
tnv
politikn epitokiwv tns argevtivns zwov mporeis va mas peis?? Hli0ie!


>H Argentinh eixe
> teleiws anoiksei thn oikonomia sth gouaspia

Oso 'avoi3e" tnv oikovomia tns se olo tov kosmo meta ta
strapatsa tou sosialistikou prostateutismou pou efage, allo toso
avoixtnke kai stnv amerikn blaka. Movo pou ekave pali patates
stn vomismatikn tns politikn kai kapoies stn dnmosiovomikn.
Av ntav eleu0era kumaivomeves oi isotimies opws legame
emeis, dev 0a perimevav tn mikrn upotimnsn tns Kevtrikns Trapezas
oi epevdutes gia va tis dwsouv tromaktikes diastaseis krisns, oute
0a eixame tis epevdutikes prosdokies pou eferav vomismatikn katarreusn.

>- eixe prosdesei
> to peso sto dolario

Malaka! H amerikn fagw0nke va prosde0ei to peso sto
dollario?? Blepeis va trexouv oi amerikavoi va ekbiazouv
vomismatika prosdesimata??? Siga to...kerdos gia tous merikavous
blaka, asxete, amorfwte.

>- eixe afhsei to ekswteriko emporio
> diaplata anoixto sto paignidi ths gouaspikhs oikonomias,

Mpoooooiiiiivgk! Dnladn se poio paixvidi?? Sto emporio??
Eidame kai 3eroume allwste ti skata efere o prostateutismos
kai o periorismos tou emporiou. Akou, gouaspiko paixvidi to die0ves
emporio!!! Kai giati xestnkav oi amerikavoi eidika gia tnv argevtivikn
agora, les va apeiln0nke to mellov tou kapitalismou.
Alla esu dev mas eleges oti n Amerikn klebei tov kosmo me ekeiva
ta asnmavta 400 ek. dollaria pou ntav oi ka0ares eisroes kefalaiwv??
Twra mas les oti klebouv me to emporio kai tis e3agwges tous tnv argevtivikn
agora. Ela omws pou etsi meiwvouv tis ka0ares eisroes kefalaiwv! Pws se
klebouv zwov, apofasise epi telous!!
Kleyia to emporio, kleyia ola, oloi klebouv olous, etsi "eusta0ei" n malakia
sou.
Aei sixtnr blaka, dev asxoloumai oute me tis avoikovomntes asxetosuves pou
les
parakatw, isws alln wra zwov, blaka.

Kitsos

-
> kai oi gouasphdes thn parotrinan gia auto. Molis xreiasthke
> psilostaqeropoihsh,- thn petaksan sa to skuli st'ampeli,-
> kai ths roufhksan to aima,- me to frontisoun ntopia para-
> xqenta kefalaia (megaloidiokthta), meta ton paniko, na
> lipotakthsoun ola sta xrhmatisthria NY kai Londinou,
> h' stis trapezes Karaibikhs kai Elbetias.
>
>
>
> > > H de Kina, einai pragmati ntroph. Exei to 1/4 ths puknothtas
> > > plhqusmou ths Ouzas, kai pali to 1/3 apo autous einai ftwxoi.
> > >
> >
> > Kai poios ftaei gia ayto? Oi kakoi wasphdes ftaine ki edw?
>
>
> Kaneis de ftaiei. Ektos kai ean qewreis oi 800 ekat psuxes
> pou zoun epi pleon sth Kina "baros". (Ase pou kai h Kina
> exei mpei sto paignidi ths dieqnous gewpolitikhs,- kai auth
> einai eleuqeros paixths (monos auth kai h Rwsia), kai exei
> balqei kai auth na exei liga stwmata kai mpoukwmena,- anti
> gia polla kai me xamogelo). H Kina omws einai ena apomo-
> monwmeno (se terastio baqmo) oikonomiko susthma,- kai den
> exei, oute sth megaluterh fantasia, tis terasties anisothtes kai
> katasparakseis pou exei to gouaspiko oikonomiko susthma
> (mesa sto opoioa anhkei D. Eurwph, Iapwnia, olh h Arikh,
> olh h Latinikh Amerikh, kai h N, Asia (plhn Indias),- dhladh,
> pantou opou ftanoun ta aeroplanofora ths, kai oi bombaridismoi
> tous,- xwris dunatothta antapodwtikou plhgmatos sth kardia
> ths gouaspikhs diktatorias).
>
> Ante, brhka ligo xrono parapanw.
>
>
> Gr
>
>

Spyros Daskaleas

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:51:03 PM11/25/02
to
<snip ta dika moy>

> Apokwdikopoihsh: (1) Prepei na melethseis to ti exei kanei
> h gouaspia sth Latinikh Amerikh apo tis arxes tou 19ou aiwna

> kai enteuqen. Sou leipei pantelws h raxokokalia ths
> gewpolitikhs tuxhs auths ths perioxhs,- kai me poious orous
> paixqthke kai paizetai.

Egw ayto poy blepw einai oti exeis mperdepsei istoria kai episthmonikh
fantasia sto kefali soy kai mperdeyeis th biografia toy Tse Gkebara me
to ti synebh pragmatika sthn perioxh. Bgaineis kai les oti den 3erw ti
moy ginetai - ki apo poy to katalabes, apo dyo grammes sxolio poy ekana?
Telos pantwn...

> (2) H Argentinh htan "prosegmenh" apo th gouaspia, apo to
> 1920 mexri to 1980, giati thn eblepe ws th beltisth epilogh
> ths na (a) katapniksei kinhmata tupou Tse Gkebara, (2)
> perikuklwsei th Brazilia, h opoia eixe ola ta fonta na ginei
> megalos paixths sth dieqnh skakiera.

H Argentinh HTAN megalos paixths sth die8nh skakiera. Esy bebaia 3ereis
mono ti ginotan apo to 80 kai meta, alla as einai...

>(3) H prosfath katar-


> reush ths Argentinhs htan mia kala sxedeiasmenh xrhmato-

> oikonomikh apostaqeropoihsh apo th gouaspia. Mexri th


> teleutaia stigmh h Argentinh ekane eklush sth gouaspia na th
> bohqhsei na prosperasei tis emfanisqeises taseis oikonomikhs

> astaqeias,- ligo-polu me tous idious orous pou h Fed kanei


> twra manoubres gia na parakamfqei katarreush en Ouza,-

> me to na ruqmizei ta epitokia deontws. H Argentinh eixe
> teleiws anoiksei thn oikonomia sth gouaspia,- eixe prosdesei
> to peso sto dolario,-

Gia katse, giati edw eipes megalh patata. Dhladh to oti h Argentinh
edese th synalagmatikh ths isotimia me to dollario paei na pei oti eixe
anoi3ei thn oikonomia ths stis HPA? Dhladh re Dandoylakh, petas megala
toybla wres wres ti na pw. To na deseis to nomisma soy me to nomisma
allhs, oikonomika isxyroterhs xwras de shmainei SE KAMIA PERIPTWSH oti
anoigeis kai thn oikonomia soy. Shmainei isws oti empisteyesai th
nomismatikh politikh twn HPA perissotero apo thn ths Kentrikhs soy
trapezas, poly liga parapanw... Akoma kai to dollario na eixan kanei
epishmo nomisma, poly liga apo ayta poy les esy 8a shmaine... Telos
pantwn, Dandoylakh, exeis megalo mperdema se ayta ta 8emata...


> eixe afhsei to ekswteriko emporio

> diaplata anoixto sto paignidi ths gouaspikhs oikonomias,- kai


> oi gouasphdes thn parotrinan gia auto. Molis xreiasthke
> psilostaqeropoihsh,- thn petaksan sa to skuli st'ampeli,-
> kai ths roufhksan to aima,- me to frontisoun ntopia para-
> xqenta kefalaia (megaloidiokthta), meta ton paniko, na
> lipotakthsoun ola sta xrhmatisthria NY kai Londinou, h' stis
> trapezes Karaibikhs kai Elbetias.
>

Epeidh eisai, profanws, asxetos, kai epeidh exw arketes epafes,
epaggelmatikes kai mh me thn perioxh, to ti EGINE (oxi to ti fantazesai
esy oti egine) einai to e3hs:

. H Brazilia kai h Argentinh einai oi megalyteres agores ths perioxhs
kai, meta3y toys yparxei foberos antagwnismos (soy to lew giati fainetai
oyte ayto to 3ereis).
. H Argentinh eixe desei to nomisma ths sto dollario, apo ta telh ths
dekaetias toy 80 an 8ymamai kala.
. H Brazilia to idio, nomizw apo tis arxes ths dekaetias toy 90, alla
mporei na kanw kai la8os.
. To 99 h Brazilia ekane MEGALH ypotimish toy real. Apotelesma?
Braxypro8esmh megalh krish alla:
. OI KAKOI KAPITALISTES MPOROYSAN NA AGORASOYN PERISSOTERA STH BRAZILIA
APO OTI STHN ARGENTINH. OI E3AGORES THS ARGENTINHS SXEDON STAMATHSAN.
. Efygan oloi oi ependytes kai phgan sth Brazilia.
. H kybernhsh ths Argentinhs antedrase para poly arga sthn krish,
. Me apotelesma na exoyme ayta poy exoyme.

Yphrxan kai alloi logoi bebaia, opws oi idiwtikopoihseis toy Menem, opws
kai o megalos e3wterikos daneismos apo ton idio... Bebaia ola ayta gia
sena einai ahdies, esy 3ereis kalytera.


>
>
> > > H de Kina, einai pragmati ntroph. Exei to 1/4 ths puknothtas
> > > plhqusmou ths Ouzas, kai pali to 1/3 apo autous einai ftwxoi.
> > >
> >
> > Kai poios ftaei gia ayto? Oi kakoi wasphdes ftaine ki edw?
>
>
> Kaneis de ftaiei. Ektos kai ean qewreis oi 800 ekat psuxes
> pou zoun epi pleon sth Kina "baros". (Ase pou kai h Kina
> exei mpei sto paignidi ths dieqnous gewpolitikhs,- kai auth
> einai eleuqeros paixths (monos auth kai h Rwsia), kai exei
> balqei kai auth na exei liga stwmata kai mpoukwmena,- anti
> gia polla kai me xamogelo). H Kina omws einai ena apomo-
> monwmeno (se terastio baqmo) oikonomiko susthma,- kai den
> exei, oute sth megaluterh fantasia, tis terasties anisothtes
> kai katasparakseis pou exei to gouaspiko oikonomiko susthma
> (mesa sto opoioa anhkei D. Eurwph, Iapwnia, olh h Arikh, olh
> h Latinikh Amerikh, kai h N, Asia (plhn Indias),- dhladh,
> pantou opou ftanoun ta aeroplanofora ths, kai oi bombaridismoi
> tous,- xwris dunatothta antapodwtikou plhgmatos sth kardia
> ths gouaspikhs diktatorias).


Den yparxoyn anisothtes sthn Kina? Poy, sta xwria? 8a soy synistoysa na
pas mia bolta apo Macau meria, 'h Hong Kong 'h Shanghai gia na deis ti
diafora yparxei anamesa stoys oyrano3ystes kai tis paragkes. Kai mh moy
peis oti soy lew mono gia dyo treis perioxes, olos o ploytos ths Kinas
ekei brisketai.

H Kina,Dandoylakh, den einai ka8oloy apomonwmeno kratos. E3artatai,
bebaia, to pws orizeis esy to apomonwmenh, kai fantazomai 8a to oriseis
opws se symferei esena. Me ay3hsh toy AEI sta8era megalh (de milame
dhladh gia foyska), me mia agora pantelws par8ena, me terastioys
fysikoys poroys kai me stratiwtikh dynamh poy se 40-50 xronia 8a 3eperna
kai toys wasphdes soy, de nomizw na meinei gia poly kairo apomonwmenh.
Esy bebaia apo oti exw katalabei polla diabazeis alla tipota den
katalabaineis.

Twra, gia thn katantia twn disekatomyriwn poios ftaei den mas eipes
mono, alla ypo8etw oti kapws 8a katafereis na ri3eis ki edw to ftai3imo
stoys kakoys wasphdes...

SCD

Christos Papadas

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:51:21 PM11/25/02
to
Gvwrizw bebaia oti xrwstaw prwtistws mia apavtnsn stis teleutaies megales
avonsies sou pou mou "apavtnses" sta peri
politikwv eleu0eriwv (pou movo o kapitalismos egguatai). To idio isxuei kai
gia tov Xartzoulakn pou autos toulaxistov e0i3e
kapoia sobara 0emata pou a3izouv dieukrivnsns, gurw apo tnv fusn tou
avtagwvismou.
Mias kai bre0nka omws sto garfeio kuriakatika estw kai gia ligo, apavtnse
mou, oso kai av sou eivai duskolo
afou oute eparkeis gvwseis exeis oute kai polu vonmosuvn, pws akribws, me
poio tropo, mesw poiowv oikovomikwv
mnxavismwv, oi politikes avami3eis twv HPA stnv Argevtivn, eu0uvovtai gia
tnv ftwxeia tns Argevtivns. Oute ta statistika
stoixeia se epibebaiwvouv, pou deixvouv ragdaia xeirotereusn tns oikovomias
katw apo kubervnseis me sosialistiko
prosavatolismo n me emporikes prostateutikes politikes, oute kai kapoia
oikovomikn logikn blepw va uparxei sta grapta
sou (gevikws dev uparxei logikn sto mualo sou).

Epeidna agvoeis oikovo0mikn istoria (gevikws agvoeis ta pavta), se
plnroroforw oti otav propolemika kai kata tn
diarkeia tou polemou n Argevtivn edei3e megalutero sebasmo stous vomous tns
agoras,
ta apotelesmata ntav euergetikotata gia tnv oikovomia tns, mexri bebaia pou
enfavistnkav oxi oi amerikavoi alla
ta suvdikata, oi ergatopateres, kai kuriws oi politikoi me prostateutikes
idees pou streblwsav tnv paragwgn kai tn
0esn tns Argevtinvns sto die0ves emporio. Otav kubervousav kapoioi dn0ev
patriwtes pou dev "upekuptav"
stnv amerikn n Argevtivn pvignke stnv ftwxeia opws kai o apokommevos apo tnv
dusn tritos kosmos pou tis
dekaeties 50, 60 kai 70 eixe givei tns modas.Brwmovera, peiva kai fumatiwsn
ntav ta apotelesmata tns dn0ev
xeirafetnsns apo tnv kakn amerikn se olo tov trito kosmo pou akolou0nse kata
kairous paromoies politikes
prostateutismou. Apo tnv Ivdia twv dekaetiwv pou avefera pou katestreye
megales eukaries gia oikovomikn
avaptu3n, ews kai tis pio akraies katastaseis oikovomikou aisxous pou
epizouv ews snmera (Kouba, B. Korea, klp).

To ideologiko mperdema, n nmima0eia kai kuriws n blakeia empodizouv toso
eseva oso kai tous estw kai ligotero
blakes omoious sou va katalabete pws osa katakriveis ki' esu (politikes
avami3eis kai die0vns vtabadismos) eivai
apotelesma periorismou tou kapitalismou kai tns eleu0erias tou emporiou.
Osoi dnmiourgouv me muala sav ta dika
sou kratikous vtabades gia va mas prostateyouv apo tnv "babarbarotnta tns
agoras" moiraia kapote autov tov
vtabadismo tov e3agouv. Giati pisteuouv nli0ia oti dev mporei n eleu0ern
agora va ka0orisei poios kai poia
biomnxavia xreiazetai ti, pou kai se ti timn mporouv va to brouv, kai etsi
oi vtabades mas aimatokuliouv tov
kosmo gia opoiadnpote malakia, stratngika paixvidia, apoikies kai poikiakous
dromous, prwtes ules, klp klp,
pragmatakia kai problnmatakia pou me mikrotero kostos ta luvei n agora.
Telikws oute oi 0utes ofelouvtai apo
to terastio kostos tou vtabadismou opws auto pou ufistato o proupologismos
tns Bretavias gia va eleg3ei
ta 2/3 tou plavntn, gia va parei kati pou me mikrotero kostos 0a prostateue
tnv streblwmevn avaptu3n kai
0a meiwve tnv avergia (wfelouvtai suvn0ws ligoi pou trwve proskaira ta
kleyimeika kai oi upoloipoi pairvouv
kokkala avti gia eleu0ern agora kai avaptu3n), oute bebaia kai ta 0umata
pou gia va prostateutouv apo tous kratikous
vtabades mias 3evns xwra, dnmiourgouv tous dikous tous kai purobolouv tnv
oikovomia tous sta podia tous.

Giati sto telos, n Argevtivn kai n ka0e Argevtivn, ferei AKERAIH eu0uvn gia
tnv dnmosiovomikn kai vomismatikn politikn
tns. Akerain. Kai av mporeis avti va poulas gvwseis se allous asxetous, va
peis kati kai se autous pou 3erouv
duo tria pragamata eimaste olo autia va doume tn lusn sou gia tnv e3afavisn
tns ftwxeias apo to Mpagklavtes kai
tnv Kiva. Loipov 3erola mou, oloi perimevoume tis sofes sou protaseis. Egw
lew agora, agora, agora, kai kefalaio,
kefalaio, kefalaio, kaefalaio. Esu ektos apo malakies ti alln protasn exeis
va mas kaveis blaka??

Kitsos

ps: Kai epeidn stnv aveparkn avalusn tou kolou pou ekaves kai...peri twv
oikovomikwv tou Buzavtiou (agvowvtas tis suv0nkes
stnv eleipn kai streblwmevn agora ergasias logw twv kapoiwv feoudarxikwv
domwv stnv gewrgia, twv suvtexviwv, klp pou
empodizav tnv emporikn avaptu3n, mazi me alla aitia bebaiws) se parapempw
sta apla alla xrnsima grapta tou ka0ngntn oikovomikns
istorias 0eoxarn (prwnv dioikntns kai tns Kevtrikns Trapezas Kuprou) pou
exei asxoln0ei idiaitera kai me tnv Buzavtivn oikovomia.
Diabase ligo, kalo kavei av kai me tnv meiwmevn kritikn ikavotnta pou exeis
n epagwgikn me0odos pavta 0a parousiazei problnmata
stov egkelafo sou.
Sumperasma: Eisai polu Malakas.
H0iko didagma: Eisai polu Hli0ios.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dandulakis" <dan...@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
To: <HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: Ta kala


> Mpaaa, ma ti les twra, h Argentinh efage ta moutra ths giati htan
> koumounistikh.
> Apla pramata.
> (Kai oxi giati oi gouasphdes ths trabhksan to xali katw apo ta podia, otan
> pia den
> th xreiazontan san anaxwma sth koumounistikh dieisdush sth N. Amerikh).


>
> H de Kina, einai pragmati ntroph. Exei to 1/4 ths puknothtas plhqusmou
ths
> Ouzas,
> kai pali to 1/3 apo autous einai ftwxoi.
>
>

> Gr
>
> "Spyros Daskaleas" <spy...@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT> wrote in message
> news:000401c28d50$78e9bf00$0100000a@bigbear...
> > Kai h Argentinh, Dandoylakh htan kapitalistikos paradeisos prin kamia
> > 30ria-40ria xronia. Etrwgan me xrysa koytalia oi Argentinezoi kai to
> > Buenos Aires htan h politistikh kai oikonomikh prwteyoysa ths Notioy
> > Amerikhs. Apo kakodiaxeirhsh dekaetiwn exasan oi Argentinezoi ayta poy
> > eixan, oxi e3aitias twn kakwn wasphdwn.
> >
> > De moy les omws kai kati allwn. Ta DISekatomyria Kinezwn poy zoyn sth
> > ftwxia ston kommoynistiko paradeiso, poioi ta ekmetalleyontai? Oi...
> > Wasphdes?
> >
> > SCD


> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: The Hellenic Discussion List
> > > [mailto:HEL...@lists.psu.edu] On Behalf Of Dandulakis
> > > Sent: 16 November 2002 03:52
> > > To: HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU
> > > Subject: Re: Ta kala
> > >
> > >

> > > Exeis plaka re Nektarakh.
> > >
> > > 40 ekat. h Argenitnh shmera.
> > > 200 h Indonhsia propersi.
> > > 100 h Taulandh, Malaisia, Korea
> > > antiperipropersi. 150 h Brazilia
> > > paraantiperipropersi. 60 h Tourkia
> > > toumpalin.
> > >
> > > Den lew, 700 ekat. thn pernane
> > > "kala" (bgale to 1/3 autwn eksw),-
> > > ara, 500 ekat, pernane "kala"
> > > (meta tous psuxiatrous),- kai
> > > 3500 ekat pernane oligon me to
> > > daktulo sfinwmeno sta axamna.
> > >
> > > Genikws, mperdeueis kai su tis
> > > poutses me tis bourtses, alla as einai.
> > >
> > >
> > > Gr
> > >
> > > YG: Parempiptontws, po'te qa dialuqei h
> > > intracom, na ginete oloi eleuqerh oikonomia;
> > > O kaqenas gia th partu tou,- sthn agora. Na
> > > doume, qa erxetai meta o Mpompolos na
> > > agorazei uphresies marketinh apo sena,-
> > > h' oxi;
> > >
> > >
> > > "Tranos Nektarios" <nt...@TEE.GR> wrote in message
> > > news:002301c28cc7$5d49e6a0$3fc846d4@LocalHost...


> > > > pairneis ena paradeigma mias xwras 40 ekat ???
> > > > den antilegw thn katantia tous ...
> > > > edw omws kateruse o "sosialismos " mias yperdynamhs , kai ths mishs
> > > Eurwphs
> > > > !!!
> > > > ayto pou to pas ??
> > > >
> > > > Xereis poses anatolikes phdiountai sthn dytikh Eypwrh gia
> > > ena kommati
> > > pswmi
> > > > ...
> > > > Na ta blepoume ola : - )
> > > >
> > > >

> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Dandulakis <dan...@BELLSOUTH.NET>
> > > > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
> > > > To: <HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU>

> > > > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 3:29 AM
> > > > Subject: Ta kala
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > tou ... kapitalismou
> > > > >
> > > > > Ki' Parqenwph
> > > > > epeire ena topi!
> > > > >
> > > > > Parata ta qrania
> > > > > kai t' amfiqeatra,
> > > > > ki' ela sth paralia
> > > > > na kanoume erwta
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Gr
> > > > >
> > > > > Argentina Defaults with World Bank, IMF Talks Stall
> > > > > By REUTERS
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Filed at 8:03 p.m. ET
> > > > >
> > > > > WASHINGTON/BUENOS AIRES (Reuters) - Argentina on Thursday
> > > defaulted
> > > > > on
> > > its
> > > > > World Bank debts, as last gasp talks to restart International
> > > > > Monetary
> > > > Fund
> > > > > aid stalled over persistent fears that Buenos Aires
> > > cannot deliver
> > > > > on
> > > its
> > > > > promises.
> > > > >
> > > > > Argentine Economy Minister Roberto Lavagna personally
> > > delivered the
> > > > > bad
> > > > news
> > > > > in Washington to the World Bank that Buenos Aires would
> > > only make a
> > > token
> > > > > $79.2 million interest payment on an $805 million payment due on
> > > Thursday.
> > > > >
> > > > > The default will effectively cut off one of Argentina's
> > > last sources
> > > > > of financing after it has already defaulted on $95 billion of its
> > > > > $115
> > > > billion
> > > > > commercial debts.
> > > > >
> > > > > The default will have little initial effect on Argentina's real
> > > > > economy,
> > > > but
> > > > > analysts said the resulting jolt to public confidence could shake
> > > > > recent stability gained after four years of devastating recession.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cut off from the international cash Argentina needs to
> > > shore up its
> > > budget
> > > > > shortfall, unemployment has spiked to over 20 percent
> > > leaving one in
> > > > > two Argentines in poverty, unable to buy even basic food and
> > > > > clothing.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____________________
> > > > Vacationer International
> > > > http://ntra.tripod.com
> > >
>
>

Dandulakis

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:51:27 PM11/25/02
to
"Spyros Daskaleas" <spy...@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT> wrote in message news...

> >
> > Mpaaa, ma ti les twra, h Argentinh efage ta moutra ths giati
> > htan koumounistikh. Apla pramata. (Kai oxi giati oi
> > gouasphdes ths trabhksan to xali katw apo ta podia, otan pia
> > den th xreiazontan san anaxwma sth koumounistikh dieisdush
> > sth N. Amerikh).
>
> De se katalabainw re Dandoylakh. Apo th mia, oi kapitalistes einai
> kakoi, ki apo thn allh, an efage ta moytra ths htan epeidh htan
> komoynistikh. Ti les... Se ligo 8a mas peis re Dandoylakh oti o Peron
> htan mar3isths! Mas les dhladh me liga logia oti h Argentinh mexri telos
> ths dekaetias toy 80 epibiwne e3aitias twn Amerikanwn poy edinan xrhmata
> gia na mhn yparxei kommoynistikh dieisdysh sth Latinikh Amerikh alla,
> parola ayta, htan kommoynistikh xwra. Mperdema megalo...


Apokwdikopoihsh: (1) Prepei na melethseis to ti exei kanei h gouaspia
sth Latinikh Amerikh apo tis arxes tou 19ou aiwna kai enteuqen.
Sou leipei pantelws h raxokokalia ths gewpolitikhs tuxhs auths
ths perioxhs,- kai me poious orous paixqthke kai paizetai.

(2) H Argentinh htan "prosegmenh" apo th gouaspia, apo to
1920 mexri to 1980, giati thn eblepe ws th beltisth epilogh
ths na (a) katapniksei kinhmata tupou Tse Gkebara, (2)
perikuklwsei th Brazilia, h opoia eixe ola ta fonta na ginei

megalos paixths sth dieqnh skakiera. (3) H prosfath katar-


reush ths Argentinhs htan mia kala sxedeiasmenh xrhmato-
oikonomikh apostaqeropoihsh apo th gouaspia. Mexri th
teleutaia stigmh h Argentinh ekane eklush sth gouaspia na th
bohqhsei na prosperasei tis emfanisqeises taseis oikonomikhs
astaqeias,- ligo-polu me tous idious orous pou h Fed kanei
twra manoubres gia na parakamfqei katarreush en Ouza,-
me to na ruqmizei ta epitokia deontws. H Argentinh eixe
teleiws anoiksei thn oikonomia sth gouaspia,- eixe prosdesei

to peso sto dolario,- eixe afhsei to ekswteriko emporio


diaplata anoixto sto paignidi ths gouaspikhs oikonomias,-
kai oi gouasphdes thn parotrinan gia auto. Molis xreiasthke
psilostaqeropoihsh,- thn petaksan sa to skuli st'ampeli,-
kai ths roufhksan to aima,- me to frontisoun ntopia para-
xqenta kefalaia (megaloidiokthta), meta ton paniko, na
lipotakthsoun ola sta xrhmatisthria NY kai Londinou,
h' stis trapezes Karaibikhs kai Elbetias.

> > H de Kina, einai pragmati ntroph. Exei to 1/4 ths puknothtas


> > plhqusmou ths Ouzas, kai pali to 1/3 apo autous einai ftwxoi.
> >
>

> Kai poios ftaei gia ayto? Oi kakoi wasphdes ftaine ki edw?


Kaneis de ftaiei. Ektos kai ean qewreis oi 800 ekat psuxes
pou zoun epi pleon sth Kina "baros". (Ase pou kai h Kina
exei mpei sto paignidi ths dieqnous gewpolitikhs,- kai auth
einai eleuqeros paixths (monos auth kai h Rwsia), kai exei
balqei kai auth na exei liga stwmata kai mpoukwmena,- anti
gia polla kai me xamogelo). H Kina omws einai ena apomo-
monwmeno (se terastio baqmo) oikonomiko susthma,- kai den
exei, oute sth megaluterh fantasia, tis terasties anisothtes kai
katasparakseis pou exei to gouaspiko oikonomiko susthma
(mesa sto opoioa anhkei D. Eurwph, Iapwnia, olh h Arikh,
olh h Latinikh Amerikh, kai h N, Asia (plhn Indias),- dhladh,
pantou opou ftanoun ta aeroplanofora ths, kai oi bombaridismoi
tous,- xwris dunatothta antapodwtikou plhgmatos sth kardia
ths gouaspikhs diktatorias).

Ante, brhka ligo xrono parapanw.


Gr

Spyros Daskaleas

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:51:28 PM11/25/02
to
> Mpaaa, ma ti les twra, h Argentinh efage ta moutra ths giati
> htan koumounistikh. Apla pramata. (Kai oxi giati oi
> gouasphdes ths trabhksan to xali katw apo ta podia, otan pia
> den th xreiazontan san anaxwma sth koumounistikh dieisdush
> sth N. Amerikh).
>

De se katalabainw re Dandoylakh. Apo th mia, oi kapitalistes einai
kakoi, ki apo thn allh, an efage ta moytra ths htan epeidh htan
komoynistikh. Ti les... Se ligo 8a mas peis re Dandoylakh oti o Peron
htan mar3isths! Mas les dhladh me liga logia oti h Argentinh mexri telos
ths dekaetias toy 80 epibiwne e3aitias twn Amerikanwn poy edinan xrhmata
gia na mhn yparxei kommoynistikh dieisdysh sth Latinikh Amerikh alla,
parola ayta, htan kommoynistikh xwra. Mperdema megalo...

> H de Kina, einai pragmati ntroph. Exei to 1/4 ths puknothtas


> plhqusmou ths Ouzas, kai pali to 1/3 apo autous einai ftwxoi.
>

Kai poios ftaei gia ayto? Oi kakoi wasphdes ftaine ki edw?

SCD
>
> Gr

Dandulakis

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:51:35 PM11/25/02
to
Mpaaa, ma ti les twra, h Argentinh efage ta moutra ths giati htan
koumounistikh.
Apla pramata.
(Kai oxi giati oi gouasphdes ths trabhksan to xali katw apo ta podia, otan
pia den
th xreiazontan san anaxwma sth koumounistikh dieisdush sth N. Amerikh).

H de Kina, einai pragmati ntroph. Exei to 1/4 ths puknothtas plhqusmou ths


Ouzas,
kai pali to 1/3 apo autous einai ftwxoi.


Gr

"Spyros Daskaleas" <spy...@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT> wrote in message

Tranos Nektarios

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:51:37 PM11/25/02
to
Kai epipleon se ayta pou leei o filos mou o Spuros einai oti to systhma pou
"epibiwse "
einai to dytiko ( pes to kapitalismos ).
Eixa thn tyxh na episkeftw kai Dysh kai Moldavia , Roumania kai allous
paradeisous ....
asta kalytera h syggrish den ginetai ...; - ). ( kai den eimai kai kanas
komounistofagos :- )).

Tranos Nektarios

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:51:38 PM11/25/02
to
> > pairneis ena paradeigma mias xwras 40 ekat ???
> > den antilegw thn katantia tous ...
> > edw omws kateruse o "sosialismos " mias yperdynamhs , kai ths
> > mishs Eurwphs !!! ayto pou to pas ??
> >
> > Xereis poses anatolikes phdiountai sthn dytikh Eypwrh gia ena
> > kommati pswmi ... Na ta blepoume ola : - )
> >

Spyros Daskaleas

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:51:40 PM11/25/02
to

SCD

> > pairneis ena paradeigma mias xwras 40 ekat ???
> > den antilegw thn katantia tous ...
> > edw omws kateruse o "sosialismos " mias yperdynamhs , kai ths mishs
> Eurwphs
> > !!!
> > ayto pou to pas ??
> >
> > Xereis poses anatolikes phdiountai sthn dytikh Eypwrh gia
> ena kommati
> pswmi
> > ...
> > Na ta blepoume ola : - )
> >
> >

Dandulakis

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:51:42 PM11/25/02
to

Andreas Dakanalis

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:51:44 PM11/25/02
to
> pairneis ena paradeigma mias xwras 40 ekat ???
> den antilegw thn katantia tous ...
> edw omws kateruse o "sosialismos " mias yperdynamhs , kai ths
> mishs Eurwphs !!! ayto pou to pas ??
>
> Xereis poses anatolikes phdiountai sthn dytikh Eypwrh gia ena
> kommati pswmi ... Na ta blepoume ola : - )
>
Kai mia poutavaferame, 3ereis poses dutikes pndiouvtai stnv Dusn;
Ola ma ooooola va ta blepoume Trave :-)))))

Avdreas.

Tranos Nektarios

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:51:52 PM11/25/02
to
pairneis ena paradeigma mias xwras 40 ekat ???
den antilegw thn katantia tous ...
edw omws kateruse o "sosialismos " mias yperdynamhs , kai ths mishs Eurwphs
!!!
ayto pou to pas ??

Xereis poses anatolikes phdiountai sthn dytikh Eypwrh gia ena kommati pswmi
...
Na ta blepoume ola : - )

Dandulakis

unread,
Nov 25, 2002, 12:52:04 PM11/25/02
to
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages