Ellhnikh patenta ta 9/8?
Asteras Amaliadas
Akou Iakwbidh, gia na teleiwnoume mazi sou mia kai kalh, giati arxizeis na
ginesai kourastikos...
>GIATI DEN YPARXOUN 9/8 SE KANENA ALLO MEROS TOU KOSMOU PLHN THS ELLADAS????
Pes mas loipon esu thn apanthsh, giati mia lista apo xiliades an8rwpous pou
arneitai na mpei ston kauga sou uper h' kata, 8elei na 3erei ti pisteueis
ep' autou KAI MONO ki oxi gia thn gnwmh sou gia thn mish lista...
Perimenw edw kai 15 meres apanthsh sto erwthma pou kaneis, kai den exeis
dwsei esu tipota!
Asteras Amaliadas
Nikos Iakovidis
Pote mou den milisa gia to synolo ton melon tis listas, alla gia aytous
pou eneplakisan sti eironia kai ston embaigmo pou ypestin... Aytous
aforousan ta osa egrafa. Pou den einai xiliades, alla mono 5-6....
Antitheta exo dilosei pos tha meino stin lista os aplos theatis giati
pragmati yparxei ypsilotato epipedo kai epistimoniki gnosi zileyti kai
synithos kai eyfyestato humor. Ayto pou me ekane na epanastatiso (isos
viastika...) itan to vrisidi (pou me vrike kapos aproetoimasto) i omadiki
epithesi pou dextika giati ypostirixa tin ellinikotita kapoiou mousikou
organou kai kapoiou rythmou. Gia ola ayta mou ta amartimata, egina "aderfi",
"loulou", "skylas", "ellinaras" kai alla diafora...
Kai an kourasa, kourasa giati xreiasrtike na "apantiso" (apo antanaklasi
perissotero) se kamia 5-6 anthropous pou me "pyrovolousan" gia ayto mou to
englima... Lathos vevaia pou ek ton ysteron anagnorizo!
Meine pantos isixos. Ektos apo ayta pou xrostao stin lista (piges mou
klp.) sou dino ton logo mou pos den tha sas xanaapasxoliso pote me diko mou
grapto! Afou ap oti vlepo, i lista den exei anangi apo Mousiko. Kai ex allou
kai na eixe, kalyptetai to pedio ayto, apo arxaiologous, istorikous,
filologous klp. :-)
Na exeis kali mera!
-= Nikos Iakovidis =-
Nikos Iakovidis
eixa skopo na kouraso allo... ex allou kourastika ki ego.Alla epeidi esy
pali mou zitas na apantiso sto erotima: "Giati ta 9/8 den yparxoun se kanena
allo meros tou kosmou" thelo na xereis pos ego eimai aytos pou ypevalle ayto
to erotima! Fysika kai mboro na sou apantiso analytikotata se ayto.
H Mousiki einai epikoinoniakos tropos. Einai mia "glossa" ki ayti. Opos
loipon me tis glosses, oloi oi laoi dimiourgisan tin diki tous, etsi
dimiourgisan kai tis mousikes tous. Oi Ellines exoun mia protia edo (den
einai ellinaradiki i diathesi e? apli katagrafi kano). Ayti kath ayti i lexi
"Mousiki" einai elliniki. Aytin xrisimopoioun kai oloi oi laoi gia na
orisoun to diko tous ixitiko proion.Kai einai i proti fora (ayto mas to
amfisvitoun mono oi Kinezoi mousikoi) pou o organomenos ixos
(armonia+melodia+ rythmos) organonetai toso meletimena kai katagrafetai.
Ayti kath ayti i lexi Mousiki einai elliniki lexi. Oi ixoi (notes, an
theleis, opos legontai simera) piran gia proti fora onomata. Tous dothikan
apo to elliniko alfavito (alfa, vita, klp.)
Sta plaisia aytis tis dimiourgias, ta ellinika fylla anaptyssoun
diaforous "tropous". Oi "tropoi" einai oi idiaiterotites pou eixe i mousiki
ermineia kai o tropos pou synetassonto oi ixoi o enas dipla ston allo
(syngekrimena exei na kanei meta diastimata anamesa stous ixous). Ayto pou
simera leme klimakes. Oi "tropoi" piran onomata daneismena apo ta onomata
ton ellinikon fyllon pou ta dimiourgisan kai ta aneptyxan (dorikos, ionikos,
klp.). Kati antistoixo me tous rythmous, as poume tis arxitektonikis
(dorikos, korinthiakos, klp.).
Ola ayta anaferontai sto melodiko komati tis mousikis. Alla mousiki
xoris rythmo den ginetai. Ara oi arxaioi eixan kai tous rythmous tous. Ta
9/8 einai enas rythmos pou den synantietai pote kai pouthena allou ston
kosmo. Se kamia laiki mousiki, alla oute kai stis exelligmenes simerines
mousikes. Mono se kapoies valkanikes mousikes synantas metra tou typou 13/8,
opou gia tis ananges tou tragoudiou diairountai tetoia megala metra kai
ginontai pote 8/8 syn 5/8, i 9/8 syn 4/8. Alla kai to ayti tou apeirou
akomi, katalavainei pos ayto den exei kamia sxesi me ta dika mas 9/8, pou
einai katharoaima kai olokliromena kai o tropos pou syntassontai einai poly
makria apo tin proigoumeni periptosi, giati o tonismos ginetai xekathara me
tropo 2-2-1, 2-2-1-1. Ayto den tha to vreis pouthena! Kai i erotisi "Giati
den vriskoume zeimbekiko pouthena allou" apantietai me ton idio tropo pou
tha apantouse kapoios sto erotima "Giati i lexi "anthropos" den synantietai
se alli glossa"!
Oi idioi anthropoi pou eixan tin "patenta" (diki sou ekfrasi) tis lexis
aytis, eixan tin patenta kai aytou tou rythmou!
Exoun ginei polles meletes pano s' ayto. Dystyxos mono apo xenous
mousikologous. Den tha anafero tis dikes mou piges giati tha amfisvitithoun
sigoura apo kati tzimania edo mesa pou espeysan na me baglarosoun epeidi
ypostirixa ta osa ypostirixa. Tha psaxo na vro tin paremvasi "dikou sas"
paliou tis listas, pou otan milisame gia ayto to thema, parenevi kai anefere
to onoma kai tin meleti germanou mousikologou pou apedeiknye tin
arxaioelliniki katagogi tou zeimbekikou. Dose mou mia meroula na psaxo sto
arxeio mou na vro to mynima tou "dikou sas" anthropou. Kai elpizo etsi i
enimerosi na einai pio pisteyti, afou oti kai na leo ego, einai ypo diarki
amfisvitisi. Ki as exo faei ta xronakia mou apo 6 xronon sta Odeia... Mia
meroula... kai meta tha sou aparrithmiso kai tis dikes mou piges. Kai tha
sou kano kai etoimologiki analysi tis lexis Zeimbekiko, pou einai kathara
arxaioelliniki (min tromazeis)... ftanei na sou po pos to proto synthetiko
einai i lexi "Zeys"... ta ypoloipa ayrio...
Phidias Bourlas
basimes). Niko, me prokaleis va 3e8ayw oloklnro tov "D" apo ta
eptasfragista mpaoula twv skoteivwv kai araxviasmevwv upogeiwv stowv
tns mustikns Biblio8nkns tns Zurixns! [snmeiwsn: to parapavw eivai tns
listas - afnvw va to e3ngnsei n Sofia] Epifulassomai. Prosexe! :-)
F.M.
Nikos Sarantakos wrote:
>
> At 08:04 04-03-01 +0200, Nikos Iakovidis wrote:
> >amfisvitisi. Ki as exo faei ta xronakia mou apo 6 xronon sta Odeia... Mia
> >meroula... kai meta tha sou aparrithmiso kai tis dikes mou piges. Kai tha
> >sou kano kai etoimologiki analysi tis lexis Zeimbekiko, pou einai kathara
> >arxaioelliniki (min tromazeis)... ftanei na sou po pos to proto synthetiko
> >einai i lexi "Zeys"... ta ypoloipa ayrio...
>
> Apo to Zeus kai bekos = pswmi, pou eixe pei o Belloudios (nomizw)?
> [Kai rempeths ek tou arxaiou 'rempomai' = periplanwmai]
> Auta ta elege kai o sxwremenos o Sxorelhs, sunonomate, kai tote pou
> mou ta elege, apo sebasmo kai mono den eixa tolmhsei na tou pw
> oti h ekshghsh auth einai asthrikth. Giati bebaia etumologia den ginetai
> me to na briskoume mia leksh pou moiazei hxhtika me mian allh kai
> na leme oti h prwth proerxetai apo th deuterh. Prepei na breis endiamesous
> tupous, as poume, pou na marturountai se keimena h' na sunagontai
> apo allous, oi metaboles pou proteineis na symfwnoun me th fwnhtikh ths
> glwssas, ktl.
>
> Afhnontas sthn akrh oti to "bekos", opws leei o Hrodotos, htan leksh
> Frugikh. Qa qumasai asfalws thn istoria: o Psammhtixos, o basilias
> twn Aiguptiwn, gia na brei poios laos einai arxaioteros, phre duo
> neogennnhta kai ta ekleise s'enan purgo (h' kati tetoio) xwris na tous
> milaei kaneis, mono ta ta.ize, kai telikws otan ta paidia ginane duo
> xronw, milhsane kai eipane "beko's" ara, sumperane o psammhtixos,
> afou to bekos einai frugikh leksh, oi fruges einai o arxaioteros laos.
>
> Piqanon na uparxoun kai alles etumologhseis tou ze.impekikou
> apo Zeus kai kati allo. Omws qa prepei na ekshghqei pws
> sxhmatisqhke h leksh 'zeybek' sta tourkika (agnow -meqaurio
> pou qa exw ta kitapia mou, qa ta ksanapoume).
>
> ns
Asteras Amaliadas
>Kai i erotisi "Giati den vriskoume zeimbekiko pouthena allou" apantietai
>me ton idio tropo pou tha apantouse kapoios sto erotima "Giati i lexi
>"anthropos" den synantietai se alli glossa"!
H lejh "an8rwpos" uparxei se oles sxedon tis glwsses tou kosmou, opws kai h
lejh mousikh pou aneferes... "Anthropology" leme... Koinws, atuxhs h
epilogh ths lejhs, alla katalabainw ti 8es na peis, estw ki an to
paradeigma einai la8os.
> Oi idioi anthropoi pou eixan tin "patenta" (diki sou ekfrasi) tis lexis
>aytis, eixan tin patenta kai aytou tou rythmou!
Omws, akoma den me epeises gia thn arxaia katagwgh tou ru8mou tou
zeimpekikou... Ti stoixeia uparxoun pou na deixnoun oti ta 9/8 uparxoun
stous o8wmanikous, buzantinous, rwmaikous, ellhnistikous, klassikous h'
arxaikous xronous; Egw, exw thn entupwsh oti to zeimpekiko hr8e apo to
Mikra Asia to 1922, kai htan o xoros twn Zehmpekidwn...
>Kai tha sou kano kai etoimologiki analysi tis lexis Zeimbekiko, pou einai
>kathara arxaioelliniki (min tromazeis)... ftanei na sou po pos to proto
>synthetiko einai i lexi "Zeys"... ta ypoloipa ayrio...
Oi Zehmpekhdes tote ti htane, sthn Iwnia; Akou file... To egraya se ena
mhnuma pou epeidh den eixe bwmoloxies den skefthke kaneis na to akoumphsei
("Klarinwn sunexeia" nomizw legontan)... To na arneitai kaneis tis
epirroes, apo opou uphrxan kai na prospa8ei me prokrousteio logikh na
emfanizei ka8eti ellhniko ws akraifnws ellhniko, einai arnhsh tou idiou tou
e8nikou xarakthristikou twn Ellhnwn, auto ths ikanothtas tous na
aporrwofoun kai na metousiwnoun 3enes epidraseis... Emena me afhnei pagera
adiaforo, an h lejh zehmpekiko, einai ek tou tourkikou zeybek, dhladh ths
faras twn zehmpekhdwn ths Mikras Asias, an h lejh rempetiko einai ek tou
tourkikou "rebet" (ataktos), an to tsamiko shmainei twn tsamhdwn pou einai
albanoi, to arbanitoblaxiko upodhlwnei oti mporei na einai albaniko h'
roumaniko, h' to xasaposerbiko twn serbwn. Efoson to xoreuoume sthn Ellada,
EINAI ELLHNIKO kai xwris to onoma twn na prepei na to kanoume me to zori
ellhniko kai dh apo ton Patera twn 8ewn twn Arxaiwn Ellhnwn...
Asteras Amaliadas
Asteras Amaliadas
>sou dino ton logo mou pos den tha sas xanaapasxoliso pote me diko mou
>grapto! Afou ap oti vlepo, i lista den exei anangi apo Mousiko. Kai ex allou
>kai na eixe, kalyptetai to pedio ayto, apo arxaiologous, istorikous,
>filologous klp. :-)
Loipon, gia na teleiwnoume giati arxizw na xanw ki egw thn upomonh mou...
8a sou pw EGW ti 8a kaneis KAI 8A TO KANEIS OPWS AKRIBWS STO LEW:
1) 8a baleis tous an8rwpous pou 8ewreis kakopistous se ena kill file. An
den 3ereis pws na to kaneis, otan blepeis to onoma enos pou 8ewreis oti den
exei na prosferei tipote sthn suzhthsh, tote SBHNEIS to mhnuma tou XWRIS na
mpeis ston peirasmo na to anoijeis... Alliws, mia zwh 8a kolumpas sto
roxalo pou 8a sou petane... Den sto lew gia na sou kanw ton ejupno, ta idia
la8h me sena ekana kai 3erw kala kai to problhma kai thn lush... Alliws, 8a
prepei, gia na uperaspiseis thn ajioprepeia sou, na kaneis o,ti les, dhladh
na stamathseis na grafeis teleiws...
2) Enw monos eirwneuesai th lista oti den exei anagkh mousikou, alla
boleuetai me arxaiologous, paye na yaxneis na mas peis ti eipe o
Ma8hmatikos/ Computeras Tsiantos gia to Zehmpekiko kai PES MAS ESU TI
EPISTHMONIKA MOUSIKOLOGIKA STOIXEIA EXEIS. Opws egw den epitrepw, giati
eimai biologos, se kanenan filologo/ felologo/ fallologo na milaei gia
biologia kai na leei kotsanes, etsi ki esu 8a prepei na mas apanthseis
EPISTHMONIKA WS EIDHMWN (MOUSIKOS)...
Perimenw loipon ASAP ta DIKA SOU mousikologika stoixeia...
>-= Nikos Iakovidis =-
Asteras Amaliadas
Yiannis Nicolis
>einai katharoaima kai olokliromena kai o tropos pou syntassontai einai poly
>makria apo tin proigoumeni periptosi, giati o tonismos ginetai xekathara me
>tropo 2-2-1, 2-2-1-1. Ayto den tha to vreis pouthena! Kai i erotisi "Giati
Pws to evvoeis auto; Dev mou bgaivei a0roisma 9. Dev eimai mousikos
alla 0umamai pou mou elege mia filn krntikia oti ta 9/8 opws
paizovtai sta Balkavia (Ellada kai Serbia kuriws) eivai "asummetra":
3 fores 3/8 alla oxi idias diarkeias kai tovismou se avti0esn me ta
"dutikoeurwpaika" 9/8, pou eivai summetrika. Mas elege malista oti
mia Austriakn orxnstra pou eixe paei se kapoia mousikn suvavtnsn stnv
Krntn, prospa0nse va pai3ei xasaposerbiko alla epai3e ta 9/8 sav
treis fores 3/8 summetrika kai tous bgnke to xasaposerbiko grngoro
balsaki :-)
Sxetika me to 0ema, se parapempw kai sto "Blue rondo ala Turk" tou
Dave Brubeck, to opoio eivai to movo jazz kommati pou 3erw va
xrnsimopoiei tetoios asummetrous tovismous. Stnv jazz ta 9/8
tovizovtai suvn0ws sav treis fores 3/8 (pavta summetrika) evw se auto
to kommati o Brubeck divei "avatolitiko xrwma" tovizovtas sav 2-2-2-3
pou kai pali omws eivai diaforetiko apo tov tovismo tou
xasaposerbikou. 3erw oti basistnke sto "Rondo ala Turk" tou Mozart
alla dev 3erw ti tovismous xrnsimopoiei o Mozart.
-----snip ola ta prongoumeva kai ta epomeva peri glwssologias giati
diafwvw kai av ta piasoume 0a fugoume pali apo tous ru0mous kai tn
mousikn.------
Yiannis
Nikos Iakovidis
amfisvitisi... Toso pou pou arxizo na anisixo pos i amfisvitisi yparxei gia
tin amfisvitisi.
Egrapses:
<Les oti ksereis, kata dhlwsin sou eisai gnwsths ths mousikhs, alla' qa
mou epitrepseis na mh dexomai abasanista tis dhlwseis opoioudhpote se
sxesh me thn empeirognwmosunh tou.>
LATHOS! synonomate! An parakolouthouses sosta, tha evlepes pos pano apo
4 fores exo pei edo mesa pos DEN eimai gnostis tis mousikis (kai, metaxy
mas, opoios sou pei oti einai, den xerei ti tou ginetai..). Kai fysika
dilonontas kati tetoio, apopoioumai kai ton titlo tou embeirognomona! Ekeino
pou mboro sigoura na po einai, oti apo tin ilikia ton 6 eton pou protoepiasa
mousiko organo sta xeria mou mexri kai simera, asxolithika me 7 synolika
organa, baino kai vgaino se diafora Odeia, Ellada kai exoteriko, kai ereyno
oso mboro kai oso me pernei tis laikes mousikes, giati einai o tomeas pou me
synepernei perissotero ap olous. Exo taxidepsei se polla meri tou kosmou,
apo tin India mexri tin latiniki Ameriki, kai exo paixei mousiki parea me
laikous mousikous apo polles xores. Ti na kanoume einai i trella mou!
Zeimbekiko den apantisa re Sarantako pouthena! Pos na to kanoume diladi?
Tora, to an vrethei kapoia fyli xero, go... stin Nea Zilandia, i stin
Afriki, i opoudipote telos panton, pou na xoreyoune zeimbekia, 1. tha
anakaleso dimosia ta osa grafo kai ypostirizo kai 2. tha fugo to taxytero na
na gnoriso ta filarakia ayta gia na rixoume mazi kamia "Synnefiasmeni
Kyriaki"...
Kai epi telous, Nikola, yparxei diafora to na kaneis mousiki apo to na
katouras sto dromo. Pistepse me...
Egrapses episis:
<an qeleis pes mas giati einai ellhnikh apokleistikothta ta 9/8, kai
epikourika pes mas pws eisai bebaios oti den uparxoun allou,
gia na ginei suzhthsh kai oxi "suzhthsh gia to pws qa ginei suzhthsh".>
Ma.. kai s' ayto exo parei idi thesi. Mi me kaneis na pisteyo pos me
krineis xoris na me parakoloutheis... Ayto tha evaze se sovari amfisvitisi
tin kalopistia sou.
Exo pei pos: ta 9/8 einai elliniki apokleistikotita, gia ton idio logo
pou kai i lexi "anthropos" einai elliniki apokleistikotita. Xero go? Giati
oi Ellines lene "anthropos" kai den lene kai oi Kinezoi? Pes mou esy...
Kai fysika den eimai katholou vevaios, me tin ennoia tis APOLYTHS
sigourias! Alla i ereyna mou kai to proion tis epafis kai synergasias mou me
mousikous apo pola meri tou kosmou ayto katadeiknyei! Epanalamvano. An
kapoios borei na apodeixei to antitheto kai na mou vrei zeimbekia se kapoio
allo meros tou planiti, anakalo kai eimai malakas!
Oso ayto den ginetai omos epetrepse mou na leo ta osa leo. Oxi tipote
allo, na mi pan kai tzamba ta taxidia kai o kopos, kai i zoi mou pou merikes
fores kindinepse.
Se xaireto
Nikos Iakovidis
Nikos Iakovidis
eilikrina sou leo, arxizo na xairomai pou ego eimai oxi o protos pou
amfisviteis, afou o idios diloneis pos prin apo mena exeis amfisvitisei ton
Belloudio kai ton Sxorelli. Nai, ayti einai i apopsi peri tis etoimologias
tou zeimbekikou. Zeys kai bekos. Tora epeidi i lexi bekos einai frygiki
allazei gia sena i ellinikotita? Tote na allaxei kai to alfavito mas kai na
min einai elliniko mias kai to Alfa einai foinikiko!
Ti na po re paidi mou. Ti typolatria einai ayti? Opos kai stin ypothesi
tou klarinou. H prospatheia na apodeixthei oti den einai elliniko epeidi den
vriskoume kapoies lexeis mesa sto CD me ta apanta. An ekanes mousiki,
eilikrina tha evlepes pos den anazitas etsi tin alitheia se themata
mousikis. Pare paradeigma to organo "Korno". Kai ta syggeni tou: Tromba,
Tromboni, Korneta, Tuba, kai ola ta alla. Ola ayta einai metexelixeis tou
Kornou. Den tha vreis ayta ta organa stin arxaia Ellada. Nai. Opos den tha
vreis kai to Korno mesa sto syngekrimeno CD. Pes mou omos. Den tha vreis to
"Keras"? Kai den xereis pos to "Keras" kai to "Korno" (proerxetai apo tin
lexi "Horn") einai to idio pragma. Diladi ena pneysto organo pou
kataskeyazetai apo kerato zoou? Gamo to kerato mou, diladi...
Kata ton idio tropo, an meletiseis to klarino, tha deis pos nai men me
tin simerini tou morfi den ypirxe stin arxaia Ellada. Oi germanoi ontos tou
edosan tin simerini teliki tou morfi. Alla poianou organou metexelixi einai?
Eythygrammo kalami, i allo xylo skameno apo mesa. Sto ena akro i opi eisodou
tou aera (Munstueck), opes ston kormo, pou tis vriskeis kai stin flogera kai
se alla ayloeidi, pou rythmizoun tin tonikotita kai sto allo akro xoani
exodou tou aera, gia tin enisxysi tis entasis tou ixou. Pare enan amforea me
arxaioelliniki parastasi kai pes mou, tha deis i den tha deis ayta ta
xaraktiristika? Tora, an oi germanoi valane mixanikes tapes gia na kleinoun
tis apomemakrysmenes opes, gia na veltiosoun tis dynatotites tou organou kai
tin texniki paiximatos tou, ayto den to kanei aytomata kai germaniko!
Telos panton, me kourase ayti i Istoria. Kai mallon kourasa ki ego! Den
xanagrafo tipota. Terma.
Na eisai kala.
Nikos Iakovidis
Nikos Sarantakos
>Uparxouv kai merikes alles etumolognseis (perissotero n' ligotero
>basimes). Niko, me prokaleis va 3e8ayw oloklnro tov "D" apo ta
>eptasfragista mpaoula twv skoteivwv kai araxviasmevwv upogeiwv stowv
>tns mustikns Biblio8nkns tns Zurixns! [snmeiwsn: to parapavw eivai tns
>listas - afnvw va to e3ngnsei n Sofia] Epifulassomai. Prosexe! :-)
>
> F.M.
Uparxoun, uparxoun, to kserw.
Oso perissoteres, toso ligotero peistikes, bebaiws.
ns
Nikos Iakovidis
Oti afora to 1. Exeis apolyto dikio! Tha kano sigoura kati ap ta dyo pou
proteineis, kai s' eyxaristo.
Oti afora to 2. Stin Mousiki den xreiazetai apodeixi megalyteri apo to
idio to aisthima! Ayto perigrafei ex allou kai apo ayto gennietai i mousiki.
Giayto apo tin arxi leo, as min bainoume se etoimologies klp. Xorepse to.
Ase ton eayto sou eleythero, na vioseis tin embeiria tou zeimbekikou kai ta
kyttara sou tha sou "deixoun" giati den einai tourkiko. Ola ta alla pou leme
einai sxedon malakies brosta s ayti tin alitheia. H Mousiki den ypakouei se
logiki kai tetragonismous. Paradeigma: o Mathimatikos den tha kataferei pote
na diairesei apolyta tin monada sta tria. H diairesi tou tha einai panta
atelis me ateleiota triaria piso apo to komma. Stin mousiki, kai ena paidaki
6 xronon diairei aneta ena mousiko metro se tria isoxrona. Einai ta gnosta
triixa. Pos ginetai? Den xero. Vresto. Ayto einai mousiki. Pio pano apo
realistiki prosengisi. Einai aisthisi, aisthima, mageia... Ti na leme
tora... An xasoume ayto to ousiodes, ola ta alla einai mono gia na milame...
Gia xara!
-= Nikos Iakovidis =-
Sophia
Les:
> "Keras"? Kai den xereis pos to "Keras" kai to "Korno" (proerxetai apo tin
> lexi "Horn") einai to idio pragma.
Bre paidi, bre paidi, mpes stov kopo va kaveis eva search priv grayeis
kati, estw ki av eivai aplo. To ivtervet prosferei apeires pnges. Kai
e3ngw:
Cornus, opws cornu copiae, keras tns Amal0eias, (dev eimai sigourn gia
tnv kataln3n giati dev didaxtnka sto sxoleio lativika) eivai to keras
sta lativika kai n le3n uparxei kai sta italika. Corno.
Sto lew giati kati tetoia les kai meta pws va se pisteyoume sta pio
sobara;
Btw, suvexizovtas tnv evnmerwsn,a v skopeueis va 3e0ayeis mnvumata tou
Tsiavtou epri ellnvikotntas tou ovomatos zeimpekiko, 3ere oti dev
0ewreitai gevikws o Tsiavtos H au0evtia se tetoia 0emata evtos listas.
--
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# # # # # # # # # # <*,->
# # # # # # # # # # [`-'] H ev tn pura elaiov riptousa
### ### ### ## ### # -"-"-
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Nikos Iakovidis
ego! oti to "Corno" kai to "Keras" einai to idio pragma! Kai eno to men
proto den tha to vreis se arxaioelliniko syngramma, tha vreis omos to
deytero! San organa omos einai to IDIO akrivos pragma. Kai i oikogeneia
organon pou anefera os paradeigma proerxetai apo to Corno, Diladi apo to
Keras! Ayto leo! Pou vlepeis to periergo???
Iakovidis
Nikos Iakovidis
proerxetai apo tin lexi "Corno". Egrapsa to antitheto. OK! Sorry! Sfaxe me.
Elpizo na me pisteyeis oti apo viasyni kai tipote allo egine ayto e? :-)
Re sy. Exo trellathei na grafo. Moiraia tha kaneo kai lathi. Ex allou
apo martyries kapoion edo mesa, kaneis ki esy ta ...lathakia sou nai..ok..
mono sto typing....lol....Gamo to kerato mou. Ti exo pathei me sas edo mesa.
Terma os edo. Apo edo kai pera paratiritirio.... :-)
Iakovidis
Nikos Iakovidis
H fili sou pou sou eipe pos stin Servia paizoun 9/8 den sou eipe pos
ayto to metro to xrisimopoioun mono otan diairoun megalytera metra. 13/8,
15/8, klp. San 9/8 aytousios rythmos DEN yparxei stin Servia!
Kai katalavaino apolyta ayto pou mou les me tin prospatheia tis
aystriakis orxistras. Heheh.. na deis ti plakes exoun ginei me mousikous
apisteyta talantouxous pou exo gnorisei sto exoteriko, pou otan tous epaiza
i egrafa zeimbekiko menane me anoixto to stoma... Pathainoun plaka sou leo..
Einai poly makrya apo ayto pou boroun na syllavoun. De vlepeis? OLO to
oikodomima tis simerinis dytikis mousikis einai stimeno se dyo vasikous
rythmous. 4/4 (ap opou vgainoun kai ta 2/4) kai 3/4. To teleytaio teinei na
ekleipsei! Diladi stin ousia oti leme exelixi, klp. einai ousiastika
opisthodromisi... Meiname me dyo rythmous kai dyo klimakes (major kai
minor...) Ti proodos....
H diki mas laiki mousiki exei akoma 8 klimakes (dromous opos einai i
esoteriki orologia), kai apo rythmous... ase... As akousto xana san
Ellinaras... A... re Elladaraaaaa....
Tora os pros to athroisma, den tha sou vgei fysika. Giati ego parethesa
ton tonismo me metrisi dekaton ekton, den yparxoun loipon mesa ta astheni
dekata ekta . Na sto kano pio liana.
Zeimbekiko: I-I-a-I-I-a-I-a-I-I-a-I-I-a-I-a-I-a. Opou: I= isxyro, a=asthenes
Hsyntaxi ton isxyron einai: 2-2-1-2-2-1-1
Opos vlepeis yparxoun synolika 18 dekataekta, diladi 9/8. Ayto einai to
zeimbekiko mas. Apo tin "Synnefiasmeni Kyriaki", tin "Drapetsona" mexri
"Dioxe tin lypi pallikari" kai mexri ta simerina skylladika pou leei kai o
filos o Spyros.
Ayta.
Nikos Iakovidis
Sophia
>
> Sophia, mipos eisai ligo viastiki stin anagnosi?
kai 0a katalabeis ti lew. Av e3akolou0eis va mnv katalabaiveis, lupamai
alla mallov prepei va ma0eis va diabazeis tov tropo me tov opoio
grafovtai ta mnvumata stn lista. Grafeis oti n le3n Corno proerxetai apo
tn le3n Horn kai sou lew oti proerxetai apo to lativikn le3n gia to
keras (cornus). DEN eipa oti dev prokeitai gia tnv idia evoia, eipa oti
DEN proerxetai apo tn le3n horn. Dustuxws dev exw agglofwvo etumologiko
le3iko gia va dw av to horn proerxetai apo to cornus 'n apo kapoia alln
riza.
Spyros Daskaleas
lista. Magka, kalws orises kai makari na eixes afhsei tis ellhnarikes
korwnes para pera prin arxizes na grapseis.
SCD
Sophia
Nikos Iakovidis
Thanx. Eisai spathi.
Nikos
Nikos Sarantakos
> Re sy Sarantako, eilikrina den se katalavaino. Kai kata vathos,
>eilikrina sou leo, arxizo na xairomai pou ego eimai oxi o protos pou
>amfisviteis, afou o idios diloneis pos prin apo mena exeis amfisvitisei ton
>Belloudio kai ton Sxorelli. Nai, ayti einai i apopsi peri tis etoimologias
>tou zeimbekikou. Zeys kai bekos. Tora epeidi i lexi bekos einai frygiki
>allazei gia sena i ellinikotita? Tote na allaxei kai to alfavito mas kai na
>min einai elliniko mias kai to Alfa einai foinikiko!
Mallon den me diabazeis kala, sunonomate. Eipa oti h etumologia apo
Zeus kai bekos den me peiqei kaqolou, ki as thn exei pei o Belloudios
ki as thn exei akolouqhsei o Sxorelhs. An qeleis th gnwmh mou,
apo th mikrh eksoikeiwsh pou exw me thn episthmh ths etumologias,
prokeitai gia entelws laqos. Eipa omws, oti akoma ki an htan etsi,
h mia leksh einai frugikh.
Alla den einai etsi, bre Niko, autes einai
etumologhseis ths fwtias, tetoies pou kanane oi daskaloi
to 1860, tou tupou "mprizola" proerxetai apo to "en puri zeei olh",
h' ga.idaros apo to "aei gar deretai".
To prwteuon dhladh einai oti h etumologhsh tou sebastou Belloudiou
(pou den htan kai glwssologos, parempiptontws) einai asthrikth.
Ta alla ta egrapsa ws ek perissou, kuriws epeidh einai goustozikh
h istoria tou Psammhtixou.
ns
Asteras Amaliadas
>H Mousiki den ypakouei se logiki kai tetragonismous.
>Einai aisthisi, aisthima, mageia... Ti na leme tora... An xasoume ayto to
>ousiodes, ola ta alla einai mono gia na milame...
Ola auta Niko, einai omorfa koultouriarika logia. Epeidh to miso mou soi
einai kalitexnes, olo tetoies aerologies akouwpou akoumpan thn kardia alla
oxi ton egkefalo... Ki epeidh egw eimai pezos an8rwpos, 8ewrw gia akoma mia
fora oti den mou apanthses...
3anarwtw loipon: Uparxoun safh arxaiologika/ mousikologika eurhmata pou na
fanerwnoun oti ta 9/8 einai ellhnika ki oxi kapoio daneio apo allh e8nothta;
Phidias Bourlas
Prose3e, 8a sou steilw "ek8esn" (TM Liza)
Pavtws to 8ema eivai megalo. Apo pou' akribws 3ekivnse
to zeumpekiko. Apo sugkekrimevo snmeio n' eixame kai allou
stov Ellnviko xwro paromoious xorous; Ti ntav oi "zeumpekoi",
poia n proeleusn tous (kapoios p.x. tous susxetize me eva arxaio
8rakiko fullo, tous Bessous) kai poia n proeleusn autou tou
ru8mou, exei sxesn me tous arxaious ru8mous; Oi meletntes
pou eipa (suv kapoious tou "D") auta akribws leve.
Eixe ki eva arxaio aggeio sto e3wfullo me evav arxaio
va rixvei zeimpekies!
Ev pasei periptwsei.
Ta "egkura" le3ika omws dev mas eipes, pw's etumologouv to "zeybek";
> ns
F.M.
Phidias Bourlas
(asxetws tou av 8ewreitai n' oxi "eidikos" stnv lista
- suvn8ws n3ere ti elege pavtws)
evos Germavou eivai, o opoios Germavos dev
3erw ti eivai, alla, profavws, oute "ellnvaras" eivai
kai exei kavei kai kapoia kopiwdn ereuva opws faivetai.
F.M.
Asteras Amaliadas
>Oi meletntes pou eipa (suv kapoious tou "D") auta akribws leve.
>Eixe ki eva arxaio aggeio sto e3wfullo me evav arxaio
>va rixvei zeimpekies!
>Ev pasei periptwsei.
>
>Ta "egkura" le3ika omws dev mas eipes, pw's etumologouv to "zeybek";
Gia mpeite ekei magkes... Einai kalo food for thought, giati ftasdame na
leme oti o xoros htan... 8eosdotos. Oi egkuklopaidies on line den lene
tipota, omws lene ta web sites (ena web search pote den eblaye kanenan):
http://www.efes.net.tr/izmirturizmmd/kultur/halkoyunue.htm
"Zeybek Dances" (a dance of western Anatolia or its music, appear to our
minds whenever, Western Anatolian Folk Dances especially Izmir, Aydin,
Denizli, Balýkesir and Muðla are told.
Musical instruments:
The musical instruments that are used in Zeybek dances are clarnet and drum
in the open areas, "baglama" (a plucked instrument with 3 double strings
and a long neck) is used in the closed areas.
Meanings of the figures in Zeybek:
Some differences are seen in their figures of walking, turning, rising,
knee-downinig and holding up their arms (The walking withour without
richochets) and turnings in the Zeybek plays display Zeybek’s
self-assurance, honesty, braveness and challenging.
To stul tou tourkou pitsirika den moiazei me to diko mas; Gia deste:
http://www.efes.net.tr/izmirturizmmd/kultur/zeybek3.jpg
Uparxei ki allh apoyh:
http://www.ghawazee.org/rhy/garlofis/garlofis.htm#zeybek
"It is a traditional male dance performed since the 17th century on the
east islands of the Aegean Sea (Samos, Chios, Mytilini etc) and on the
coasts of Minor Asia."
pou den 3eka8arizei POIA e8nikh omada to empneusthke...
3anarwtw loipon (me STOIXEIA PLEON): O Xoros twn Zehmpekhdwn ths Iwnias,
exei ru8mo 9/8, opws kai o ellhnikos Zehmpekikos pou hr8e sthn ellada apo
thn Iwnia; Moiazoun oi duo xoroi/mousikes, ws pros tis figoures kai thn
mousikh;
Kai 3analew: AKOMA KAI AN isxuei oti oi duo xoroi moiazoun, eite giati
einai daneio eite antidaneio apo mh ellhnika fula, DEN prepei na mas kanei
na noiw8oume abola, h' na to apopoih8oume giati h Ellhnikh Koultoura exei
thn monadikh dektikothta na aporrofa kai na metousiwnei toses polles
eterogeneis epidraseis, kai na tis proagei, xwris pote na kanei kakeptupa...
> F.M.
Asteras Amaliadas
Asteras Amaliadas
>3anarwtw loipon (me STOIXEIA PLEON): O Xoros twn Zehmpekhdwn ths Iwnias,
>exei ru8mo 9/8, opws kai o ellhnikos Zehmpekikos pou hr8e sthn ellada apo
>thn Iwnia; Moiazoun oi duo xoroi/mousikes, ws pros tis figoures kai thn
>mousikh;
Giannhs kernaei, Giannhs pinei... Apantw sthn idia mou thn erwthsh:
http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~yilmaza/Muzik.html
Merika tourkika zehmpekika einai se 9/8 ki alla se 9/4, opws blepw apo tis
partitoures... O Nikos as mas pei an moiazoun oi mousikes, h an ontws
kanenas allos laos ston sumpanta kosmo den grafei se 9/8...
>Asteras Amaliadas
Asteras Amaliadas
Nikos Iakovidis
Astera mou, ti na kanoume...to miso sou soi (ap oti mou grafeis) einai
kallitexnes. Kai gia na mou les pos exeis akousei aytes ti "aerologies" kai
apo olous aytous tous dikous sou anthropous (pou simainei oti den eimai o
protos pou ta "tsambounaei" :-)...) kai par ola ayta den peithesai, nomizo
pos exeis valei poly stena oria vre aderfe..
Eisai ap oti vlepo enas ekpliktikos epistimonas. Alla tha prepei na
katalaveis pos i Mousiki einai Texni kai oxi Epistimi. Einai ousiodis i
diafora. Se polla pragmata se kathodigei kai i idia i psychi sou. Otan akous
ena mousiko ergo den xreiazesai "ektheseis" kai analyseis gia
na to katalaveis. Xreiazetai na anoixeis tin porta tis psyxis sou kai tha
tin NIOSEIS. Yparxei mia omorfia kai mia mageia
mesa stin Mousiki, pou den exigeitai me epistimonikes methodous. Ti nomizeis
oti kathodigouse ton terastio mousourgo, pou me to onoma tou me "stolizei"
syxnakis i Kosmetatou, otan koufos on egrapse syntarraktika erga? H PSYXH
tou filaraki! Oso tha prosengiseis peza tin Mousiki den tha vgazeis akri...
Oso gia ta tourkika site pou vrikes gia tin ypothesi tou zeimbekikou,
einai poly xrisima. Apodeiknyoun peritrana ayto pou isxirizomai toson kairo.
Asfalos otan leo oti to zeimbekiko einai elliniki ypothesi, den ennoo
pos einai ypothesi aytou pou orizei i elliniki epikrateia, etsi? Milao gia
olous tous xorous opou ypirxe, drastiriopoiithike kai anaptyxthike to
elliniko stoixeio se oli tou tin istoriki diadromi. Prin mbo stin ousia, des
ti kanoun monimos oi Tourkoi kai pos kapileyontai diethnos ta arxaioellinika
os dika tous. Nato kai to teleytaio! Oi Alvanoi theloun ton Meg Alexantro
diko tous....To na allazoun orologies, toponymia klp. pros
to tourkikoteron den simainei oti aytomata apoktoun kai tin patrotita tou
orizomenou. H Konstantipoli egine Istambul. E, den tin extisan aytoi! pos
tha ginei dialdi...
Otan o Tourkikos organismos tourismou se terasties afisses tou
diafimizei ta tourkika "arxaia" ana ton kosmo, e.. den simainei oti einai
kai dika tous vre aderfe!
Otan to idio to tourkiko site leei pos o xoros zeimbekiko
synantietai stin Ionia kai se nisia tou Aigaiou, ayto den se vazei se
skepseis??? An itan tourkikos o xoros, asfalos tha ton eferan mazi tous, san
diko tous politistiko stoixeio, apo tin moggolia i ap opou ki an irthan,
telos
panton... ok? Pos ginetai na min ton synantas pouthena pio mesa apo tin
Ionia? Pos ginetai na min yparxei kai stin Angyra vre aderfe? Pos ginetai na
mi ton xoreyoun simera oi Tourkoi, stis giortes tous, stis ekdiloseis
tous... sti zoi tous re gamoto? (Ayto to exo o idios sizitisei polles fores
me tourkous mousikous kai to omologoun!)
Tha sou po ego pos... Poly apla DEN einai
dikos tous. Oi exislamismenoi Iones kai meta tin eleysi ton Tourkon, kai
meta apo ton anangastiko, dia ropalou, ektourkismo pollon ap aytous, den
paratisan oti eixan kai den eixan se politismo. Safos synexisan na zoun, na
symberiferontai kai na diaskedazoun me oti den tous apagoreytike. Kai etsi
epiviose o xoros kai eftase oste me ton xerrizomo na erthei pio dytika ston
simerino elladiko xoro. Alla kala. Kai stin Xio? Kai stin Samo? kai sta alla
nisia, Tourkoi einai aytoi pou to xoreyoun?
Tha sou po kati. Eimai pontios stin katagogi. Asfalos tha xereis poso oi
Pontioi einai prosilomenoi se themata opos glossa, paradosi, ithi, ethima
klp. Exoume diatirisei xorous pou anagontai se xiliades xronia piso. Ayti ti
stigmi, ston Ponto yparxoun Tourkoi pou xoreyoun tous xorous mas. Ntynontai
oloidia kai xoreyoun oloidia. Ti nomizeis oti einai aytoi??? Tourkoi? Akoma
kai optika, an tous deis katalavaineis tin omoiotita! Os Viologos pes mou
esy ti paixtike edo. (an den kano lathos viologos den eisai? diorthose me an
kano, pls.)
Oti afora to metro 9/8 kai 9/4 einai akrivos to idio pragma me tin
diafora oti i "taxytita" ton ennea tetarton einai kata to imisy vradyteri
apo ta 9/8.
Gia na kleiso. Pisteyeis oti theleis. Kourastika me olo ayto pou ginetai
meres tora. O Phidias o Bourlas, exei poly
grapto yliko pou apodeiknyei ta tou logou mou ta alithi. Alla tosa exo ki
ego. Ta exo ola sto arxeio kai stin vivliothiki mou! Eixa xekinisei na ta
mazeyo logo Kosmetatou. Alla apofasisa na min kano tipote kai as pisteyei o
kathenas oti thelei, mias kai diapistosa pos yparxei mia genikoteri monimi
amfisvitisi. Tha fero kati, tha amfisvitithei, tha prepei gia na to
tekmirioso, na fero kati allo... pou kai ayto me tin seira tou tha
amfisvitithei.... kai poios einai aytos pou tograpse kai ti meros tou logou
einai kai poies einai oi spoudes tou klp.klp. kai ti epangellotan o pateras
tou... ase re Astera. Gia Mousiki milame, oxi gia Mathimatika. Yparxei
diafora kai opoios den tin katalavainei... provlima tou pia...
Ayta.
Kali sou mera!
Spyros Daskaleas
>
> Giannhs kernaei, Giannhs pinei... Apantw sthn idia mou thn erwthsh:
Afoy exeis th mish lista se kill file kai exeis katebasei kanthlia sthn
ypoloiph, ti perimeneis?
SCD
Tranos Nektarios
>
> >
> > Giannhs kernaei, Giannhs pinei... Apantw sthn idia mou thn erwthsh:
>
> Afoy exeis th mish lista se kill file kai exeis katebasei kanthlia sthn
> ypoloiph, ti perimeneis?
Hahhahahahahah ,
swstos Dascalea . : )
Elizabeth Kosmetatou
> Ti na kano? Eipa na apofygo ta sentonia, alla pefto stin loumpa pali...
Kai va egrafes kati epi tns ousias va pw. Alla o,ti se rwtave DEN to
apavtas. Giati p.x. va mnv mou grapseis tnv ek0esoula pou sou zntnsa?
snip diafora
> Eisai ap oti vlepo enas ekpliktikos epistimonas.
Kala, re megale, auto POU to 3ereis? Prosoxn, dev amfisbntw oti o Asteras
mporei va eivai kataplnktikos ws epistnmovas, alla auto POU to 3erei o
Iakwbidns? Diabase to biografiko tou Astera? Meletnse ta papers tou?
>Alla tha prepei na
>katalaveis pos i Mousiki einai Texni kai oxi Epistimi. Einai ousiodis i
>diafora. Se polla pragmata se kathodigei kai i idia i psychi sou.
Magkes (ou mnv alla kai magkisses), prose3te tnv parapavw stratngikn. Mexri
twra to e0vikistario ekave barygdoupes dnlwseis (p.x. tou bourlou pro etwv
gia ta vnsia Galapagos pou proerxovtai ... apo to gala kai tov pago),
errixve kai merika katebata me "plnrofories" (0ymaste tis "plnrofories" pou
mas bazave va fervoume sto sxoleio?), rixvave kai eva brisimo se tipota
eidikous oti a) eivai asxetoi, b) av0ellnves n, spaviotera, tnrousave signv
ix0yos. Omws o Beethoven akolou0ei vea texvikn: ama diafwveis me kapoia
akraia e0vikistikn tou 0esn, pa va pei oti dev avoigeis ta "matia tns
psyxns sou" va se ka0odngnsei va "voiwseis", va "katalabeis". Ara dev
xreiazetai KAN e3ngnsn n avalysn pleov, para movov, proairetika, sevtovia
me "psyxiko paralnrnma" kai n krisn tou styl "dev 3erete, mnv milate, dioti
dev exete avoi3ei ta matia tns psyxns sas".
Ypo0etw oti autn n texvikn apotelei fysikn e3eli3n tns prongoumevns pou
xrnsimopoinse prosfatws to bourlo otav to kollnsav stov toixo sxetika me
tous arxaious Ellnves pou dn0ev avakalypsav tnv Amerikn. To epixeirnma ntav
stnv ousia "ki av dev yparxouv evei3eis n stoixeia dev snmaivei oti dev
pngave", pragma pou ypo0etw mas odngei sto fysiko symperasma oti "ama dev
yparxouv evdei3eis n stoixeia oti oi arxaioi pngave stov Arn, auto dev
snmaivei oti dev pngave".
> Otan akous
>ena mousiko ergo den xreiazesai "ektheseis" kai analyseis gia
>na to katalaveis. Xreiazetai na anoixeis tin porta tis psyxis sou kai tha
>tin NIOSEIS.
Nai, megale! Auto ama to elega stov ka0ngntn mou tns morfologias/avalysns
otav mou exwve tnv partitoura stn mourn kai mou elege "kavtn mou eis ta e3
wv syvete0n kai grngora", sigoura 0a mou ebaze arista!
> Yparxei mia omorfia kai mia mageia
>mesa stin Mousiki, pou den exigeitai me epistimonikes methodous.
Bre yavrum (katse va baloume kai to tourkiko ws av0ellnves): Gia POIES
epistnmovikes me0odous milame? Egw se rwtnsa va mou dikaiolognseis tnv
parakatw arloumpa pou peta3es:
>Stis Arxaies klimakes stirizontai OLA ta simerina =
>mousika eidi! Tis poly exeligmenis Jazz symberilamvanonmenis!
Pes mou, megale, se ekliparw: POU to stnrizeis oti n jazz stnrizetai stnv
arxaia ellnvikn mousikn kai tous tropous tns? Ws mousikos (ypo0etw 0a exeis
kavei kai kapoies spoudes kai dev milas sta koutourou), 0a prepei va exeis
parei ma0nma morfologias/avalysns. Ektos av toso exouv pia katapovtistei ta
wdeia stnv Ellada kai briskovtai se xeirotern katastasn ap' o,ti ntav otav
apofoitnsa egw. Kave mou loipov, opws sou zntnsa, avalysn tou Tetragon tou
Henderson va kavoume paixvidi!
> Ti nomizeis
>oti kathodigouse ton terastio mousourgo, pou me to onoma tou me "stolizei"
>syxnakis i Kosmetatou, otan koufos on egrapse syntarraktika erga? H PSYXH
>tou filaraki! Oso tha prosengiseis peza tin Mousiki den tha vgazeis akri...
Les malakies. O Beethoven (syvadelfos etsi?) mporei va avoige ta matia tns
psyxns tou kai va syve0ete, alla malakies dev elege. BTW, arxaious diabaze,
dev 3erw av to 3ereis, kai arloumpes dev petage. Kai mporei va "evoiw0e"
opws les esy, alla spoudase, meletnse texvikes kai me0odous. Htav ektos twv
allwv ma0ntns tou Haydn kai tou Salieri kai exouv sw0ei mexri kai oi
asknseis pou tou bazave. Meletnse kai tnv avtistoi3n tou Bach. Sygkekrimeva
pragmata.
Oso gia tnv koufamara tou, ti sxesn exei re n koufamara tou me tn mousikn
pou egrapse? Prosexe, mnv peta3eis arloumpa tou styl "ntav koufos ki omws
syve0ete"! Dioti, dev 3erw av to 3ereis, alla o av0rwpos DEN gevvn0nke
koufos kai eixe HDH avaptyx0ei ws mousikos otav koufa0nke (3ekivnse va
koufaivetai gyrw sta 28 tou, diabase to Heiligenstadt Testament, magka
mou), opote to va syv0etei dev ntav problnma argotera dioti:
1) H3ere va diabazei partitoura, opote n3ere mexri kai ta reumata pou
epikratousav stnv epoxn tou.
2) H3ere ti n0ele va "pei".
H koufamara tou ntav tragwdia dioti tou ekopse stn mesn tnv karriera tou ws
solista, tov peri0wriopoinse koivwvika kai ntav, opws kai va to kavoume,
spastikotato va mnv mporei va akousei tis idies tou tis syv0eseis. Na tis
grapsei omws mporouse xwris kaveva problnma, afou leitourgousav sxedov
plnrws ta matia tou (eixe polln mywpia) kai ta xerakia tou ta stroumpoula.
Eixe kai xarti kai molybi, eixe ki eva piavo spitaki tou, ama tov epiave to
zori xrnsimopoiouse kai merika "akoustika" tns epoxns (ta exeis dei apo
kovta stn Bievvn?) kai syve0ete. Twra av eixe gevvn0ei koufos dev vomizw
oti 0a eixe givei syv0etns oso talevto ki av eixe. BTW, exeis diabasei
diafores meletes sxetika me tn leitourgia tns akons stn syv0esn? Exouv
graftei kai gia to Mozart (prosexe, dev grafw oti o Mozart ntave koufos,
aplws exouv graftei kapoies meletes gia to rolo tns akons stn syv0esn).
snip ki alla
> Asfalos otan leo oti to zeimbekiko einai elliniki ypothesi, den ennoo
>pos einai ypothesi aytou pou orizei i elliniki epikrateia, etsi? Milao gia
>olous tous xorous opou ypirxe, drastiriopoiithike kai anaptyxthike to
>elliniko stoixeio se oli tou tin istoriki diadromi.
H syzntnsn sou peri zeimpekikou dev exei kamia apolytws 0esn stov kauga.
Egw dev sou milnsa gia to zeimpekiko. Sou zntnsa va dikaiolognseis tnv
parakatw arloumpa pou peta3es:
>Stis Arxaies klimakes stirizontai OLA ta simerina =
>mousika eidi! Tis poly exeligmenis Jazz symberilamvanonmenis!
To zeimpekiko dev exei kamia 0esn stn dikaiolognsn autn. To petas mesa gia
va kaveis axtarma kai mesa stn baboura kai tn 0oloura va 3eglystrnseis.
Asxeta twra av alloi sou grafouve gia ta 9/8 kai sou kavouv poly logikes
erwtnseis tis opoies dev blepw va tous apavtas, profavws dioti dev
gvwrizeis tnv apavtnsn.
snip diafora
> Gia na kleiso. Pisteyeis oti theleis. Kourastika me olo ayto pou ginetai
>meres tora. O Phidias o Bourlas, exei poly
>grapto yliko pou apodeiknyei ta tou logou mou ta alithi.
To bourlo dev exei parousiasei kaveva grapto yliko, opws dev parousiazei
pote tou. Syvn0ws mazeuei "plnrofories" apo e0vikistika toubla kai dev
kourazetai va ka0etai va ta avtigrafei.
>Alla tosa exo ki
>ego. Ta exo ola sto arxeio kai stin vivliothiki mou! Eixa xekinisei na ta
>mazeyo logo Kosmetatou.
POIA, poulaki mou, mazeueis logw Kosmetatou? Tis apodei3eis gia tnv arloumpa:
>Stis Arxaies klimakes stirizontai OLA ta simerina =
>mousika eidi! Tis poly exeligmenis Jazz symberilamvanonmenis!
Pes mou estw kai eva pragmataki! Tekmnriwmevo! Estw, mnv grapseis
epistnmoviko povnma. Pes mou omws POU stnrizeis tnv arloumpa:
>Stis Arxaies klimakes stirizontai OLA ta simerina =
>mousika eidi! Tis poly exeligmenis Jazz symberilamvanonmenis!
Grafei parakatw o veos Beethoven:
> Alla apofasisa na min kano tipote kai as pisteyei o
>kathenas oti thelei, mias kai diapistosa pos yparxei mia genikoteri monimi
>amfisvitisi. Tha fero kati, tha amfisvitithei, tha prepei gia na to
1) Dev eferes apolytws tipota gia va amfisbntn0ei. To kyrio epixeirnma sou
ntav va avoi3oume ta matia tns psyxns mas.
2) To "apofasisa va mnv kavw tipota" eivai alln mia stratngikn pou
akolou0eis prokeimevou va 3eglystrnseis: Afou eiste ki eseis kakoi, dev paizw!
>tou... ase re Astera. Gia Mousiki milame, oxi gia Mathimatika. Yparxei
>diafora kai opoios den tin katalavainei... provlima tou pia...
Ki edw exeis la0os dioti mporei n mousikn va eivai texvn, klp. klp., eivai
omws KAI ma0nmatika. Auto 0a eprepe va to 3ereis. Kai vai, mporei va 0es
empveusn gia va tnv grapseis, avalyetai omws, avalyotav kai 0a avalyetai.
Ki esy dev avalyeis tipota.
Liza
Phidias Bourlas
>
> Magkes (ou mnv alla kai magkisses), prose3te tnv parapavw stratngikn. Mexri
> twra to e0vikistario ekave barygdoupes dnlwseis (p.x. tou bourlou pro etwv
> gia ta vnsia Galapagos pou proerxovtai ... apo to gala kai tov pago),
Auto, av kai dev 8umamai akribws tnv periptwsn, aplws to avefera,
oxi ws proswpikn gvwmn, avamesa se xiliades alla pragmata pou aveferav
kapoioi se biblio tous. Twra giati to exeis epile3ei eidika... profavws
epeidn exei plaka, alla va 3eroume giati leme.
Allo me evdiaferei emeva. Oti p.x. oloklnrn fuln stnv Xiln
upostnrizei (n idia, oxi emeis) oti katagetai apo tous arxaious
Ellnves. Egw to briskw evdiaferov. Av twra avamesa stis ka8e eidous
evdei3eis pou oi idioi parousiazouv ws epixeirnmata brisketai kai
eva la8os, e kala.
> Ypo0etw oti autn n texvikn apotelei fysikn e3eli3n tns prongoumevns pou
> xrnsimopoinse prosfatws to bourlo otav to kollnsav stov toixo sxetika
> me tous arxaious Ellnves pou dn0ev avakalypsav tnv Amerikn.
Periergo, egw dev 8umamai va efere pote kaveis ikava avtepixeirnmata.
Opws dev ferveis avtepixeirnmata ki esu twra dnladn.
> To epixeirnma ntav stnv ousia "ki av dev yparxouv evei3eis n stoixeia
> dev snmaivei oti dev pngave",
Kai meta leme poios diastreblwvei poiov... Evdei3eis kai stoixeia
uparxouv xiliades, exw avaferei tosa apo auta, kai to va prospa8ouses
va ta avtikrouseis 8a ntav 8emito, oxi omws to va parousiazeis etsi
tis pro8eseis kai tnv praktikn mou. To poso swsto eivai se afnvw va to
skefteis.
> pragma pou ypo0etw mas odngei sto fysiko
> symperasma oti "ama dev yparxouv evdei3eis n stoixeia oti oi arxaioi
> pngave stov Arn, auto dev snmaivei oti dev pngave".
Gia tov Arn eivai ovtws polu ligoteres oi evdei3eis kai 8ewrw
api8avo va pngav ekei oi arxaioi Ellnves. :-) Dev exei omws sxesn
me tnv suzntnsn mas.
Kai prepei va sou episnmavw kai to allo. Dev eivai kai toso swsto
va loidwreis prwnv suvlistobious, apovtes snmera, tov Basiln tov
Tsiavto p.x. (me tous opoious malista, otav ntav stnv lista, kavate
dialogo sobaro, me epistnmovika epixeirnmata kai stoixeia, kai tote,
evwpiov tou, dev 8umamai va epedeikvues tetoiov asugkratnto gelwta
opws autov pou eida snmera), movo kai movo epeidn diafwveis me tous
parovtes. Sto katw-katw 8ewrnse av 8eleis ws aformn gelwtos tous
parovtes, oxi tous apovtes. Elpizw va to katalabaiveis auto (eidika gia
tov Tsiavto dev eivai n prwtn fora kai sou to exw 3avapei).
> Liza
F.M.
Nikos Iakovidis
Gia teleytaia fora se parakalo idiaiteros, ap ta vathi tis psyxis mou
kai me osi dynami exei to mikro, ethnikistiko(i mallon ellinaradiko...),
neo-Beethovenistiko, kai oti allo thes, myalo mou:
MHN XANA ASXOLITHEIS MAZI MOU PLEAAAASE!
OUTE ayti tin xari den boreis na mou kaneis?
Sou yposxomai: den tha se xanaenochliso, den tha se xanaanafero, den tha
xanaypopsiasto tin yparxi sou. Tha einai san na min exo pote lavei gnosi tis
yparxis sou. Tha meineis isixi apo tis "korones" mou, tis aidies mou, tin
mousiki mou agnoia kai tis pantos eidous epaisxyntes, aidiastikes,
elleimatikes se areti kai gnosi, paremvaseis mou!
Ti allo na kano epi telous? Tha ertho na se voithiso kai stin metakomisi
an thes (opote kaneis... ;-)...). Alla MHN xanaasxolitheis, glykeia mou, me
tin potapotita mou xana!
Eyxaristo ek ton proteron!
Xana xilia eyxaristo!
-= Nikos Iakovidis =-
Elizabeth Kosmetatou
At 06:17 PM 3/5/01 +0200, Nikos Iakovidis wrote:
>Elizabeth Kosmetatou!
>
> Gia teleytaia fora se parakalo idiaiteros, ap ta vathi tis psyxis mou
>kai me osi dynami exei to mikro, ethnikistiko(i mallon ellinaradiko...),
>neo-Beethovenistiko, kai oti allo thes, myalo mou:
> MHN XANA ASXOLITHEIS MAZI MOU PLEAAAASE!
> OUTE ayti tin xari den boreis na mou kaneis?
Ti le re pou 0a mou peis me ti 0' asxoln0w kai me ti dev 0' asxoln0w stn
lista! Ti se kavame edw mesa, kexagia tns listas ki egw eimai melos
deuteras dialogns? Opws sou exouv episnmavei ki alloi, eivai dnmosio forum
n lista kai etsi kai apofasisei kaveis mas va grapsei dnmosia kati, mporouv
OLOI oi ypoloipoi ave3airetws va to sxoliasouv kai va pouv o,ti tous katebei!
Katalabe to epitelous, mpatse tou glykou verou!
Liza
Asteras Amaliadas
>Tha fero kati, tha amfisvitithei, tha prepei gia na to tekmirioso, na fero
>kati allo... pou kai ayto me tin seira tou tha amfisvitithei.... kai poios
>einai aytos pou tograpse kai ti meros tou logou einai kai poies einai oi
>Gia Mousiki milame, oxi gia Mathimatika. Yparxei diafora kai opoios den
>tin katalavainei... provlima tou pia...
Akou Niko...
FERE o,ti stoixeia exeis, pou na apodeiknuoun th 8esh sou. Kai STOIXEIA den
einai na milas gia "fwnh ths yuxhs", alla na dei3eis partitoures, na
dei3eis arxaiologika, mousikologika klp eurhmata! Opws ekana egw, gia na
dei3w oti to Zehmpekiko tragoudietai kai sta Dutika Paralia apo mh Ellhnes
(sas edei3a tourkikes partitoures pou grafoun epanw 9/8), h' o Feidias pou
esteile arxaio aggeio me kopella na foreuei Zempekia (exw dei paremferes
agalma sto Mouseio tou Loubrou). Ta eides auta; AUTA legontai STOIXEIA. Kai
ti8etai epi taphtos gia na mporei kaneis na ta amfibshthsei me logika
epixeirhmata. Kapote o Dandoulakhs eipe oti kati einai episthmoniko an
mporei na amfisbhth8ei! To na amfisbhthseis thn partitoura pou einai apto,
einai dunaton! To na amfisbhthseis omws thn "fwnh ths yuxhs" einai adunaton!
3erw oti h Mousikh einai sunais8hma, alla einai KAI Ma8hmatika! Ma8hmatika
apo thn epoxh tou Pu8agora, panw sta opoia sthrizontai oi hxoi twn
buzantinwn tropariwn, ma8hmatika kai fusikh einai kai kai h monterna
mousikh, opou to La einai 440Hz kai h aujhsh ths suxnothtas twn notwn einai
ek8etikh (opou h idia nota mia oktaba parapanw exei diplasia suxnothta apo
thn prohgoumenh, dhladh to La mia oktaba parapanw einai 880Hz).
Alla kai to tropos pou antimetwpizoume sthn Texnh orismena pragmata einai o
8etikos tropos skeyhs. Otan leme: "o tade ru8mos einai ellhnikhs
proeleusews, to dikaiologoume me to na ton sugkrinoume me ru8mous me arxaia
ellhnika eurhmata"! Px ta neoklassika tou Tsiller einai ellhnikhs
epidrasews giati blepeis pso moiazoun me ton Iwniko, kai Korin8iako ru8mo!
Bazoume dipla dipla ta arxaia eurhmata kai to spiti tou Tsiller kai
blepoume omoiothtes kai diafores kai etsi e3agoume sumperasmata!
AUTO einai pou mia oloklhrh lista perimenei apo sena kai esu upekfeugeis
legontas oti an sou ambisbhthsan ths "egkurwthta" tou "epixeirhmatos" ths
"ywnhs ths yuxhs", 8a sou amfisbhthsoun kai ta alla! An ta "alla" einai
EPIXEIRHMATA, EINAI EURHMATA, ki EXOUN KAPOIA STEREA BASH, tote kanenas
pousths den 8a to kanei, h' an to kanei 8a geloiopoih8ei autos ki oxi esu!
PERIMENOUME LOIPON TA STOIXEIA SOU!
>Kali sou mera!
Kakh mou kai yuxrh mou einai pou thn fagame apo thn Panaxaikh...
Asteras Amaliadas
PS Oso gia thn Liza... H Liza 8a se brizei gia gennaies dekatessares! Den
8a payei na asxoleitai pote' mazi sou, opws den epaye to poutanogennhma o
Sarantakos, parolo oti exei apeilh8ei h swmatikh tou akaireothta. To 8ema
einai ESU ti kaneis; Kai ws twra to mono pou kaneis einai na antapantas!
Sou eipa TI 8A KANEIS! H' 8a meineis kai 8a payeis na thn diabazeis, h' 8a
fugeis apo dw mesa! Paradexthkes oti eixa dikio ki oti 8a kaneis ena apo ta
duo, kai thn allh stigmh thn 3anaebrises, otan apanthse sta grafomena sou!
Den blepeis oti etsi to mono pou kaneis einai na phgaineis pisw;
Phidias Bourlas
Eseva dev leei va se afnsei nsuxo,
evw emeva mou exei koyei tnv kalnmera!
Diamarturomai evtovws.
F.M.
Nikos Iakovidis wrote:
>
> Elizabeth Kosmetatou!
>
> Gia teleytaia fora se parakalo idiaiteros, ap ta vathi tis psyxis mou
> kai me osi dynami exei to mikro, ethnikistiko(i mallon ellinaradiko...),
> neo-Beethovenistiko, kai oti allo thes, myalo mou:
> MHN XANA ASXOLITHEIS MAZI MOU PLEAAAASE!
> OUTE ayti tin xari den boreis na mou kaneis?
Spyros Daskaleas
Nai re Iakwbidh, bale toys oloys se kill file na grafeis sth lista kai na
apantas mono soy, opws o Bretanos Yphkoos (TM Geitonas).
SCD
>
> PS Oso gia thn Liza... H Liza 8a se brizei gia gennaies dekatessares! Den
> 8a payei na asxoleitai pote' mazi sou, opws den epaye to <censored> o
> Sarantakos, parolo oti exei apeilh8ei h swmatikh tou akaireothta.
Sarantako, sth 8esh soy 8a epairna mpoylntogk.
SCD
Nikos Iakovidis
prolave, giati den asxoleisai me ayta? Apo opou, an meta tis amfisvitiseis,
apodeixthei oti to zeimbekiko einai telika elliniki ypothesi, aytomata
dikaiologeitai kai i diki mou paremvasi. Brosta sou ta exeis! H mipos
ginetai i diadikasia gia tin diadikasia? Oriste loipon, stoixeia itheles.Ta
exeis. Alla xechasa. Den ta efera ego alla o Feidias... Ara: pidixte ton ton
kerata... Ti na po...
Kali sou mera xana.
Nikos Iakovidis
Sophia
Pera apo to poios exei dikio 'n oxi, vomizw oti av n0eles va
geloiopoinseis kapoiov to ekaves, de xreiazetai pleov suvexeia. Sto katw
katw, exw bare0ei va sbuvw katebata gia to 0ema. Amav pia, kaveis sa
mikro paidi pou brnke paixvidi kai dev to afnvei o,ti kai va givei. H
epimovn sou eivai uperbolikn. Dnladn opote emfavizetai o Iakwbidns stn
lista 0a tou stelveis mia apo ta idia; Astov pia... Sto katw katw tosa
xrovia sto ivtervet 0a exei sma0ei oti stn lista av perasouv duo-treis
meres eva 0ema arxizei va kruwvei. Edw exei perasei bdomada. O Iakwbidns
ws veos (akoma) 'n ws nli0ios,parto opws 0eleis, dev katalabaivei oti to
0ema exei kruwsei kai suvexizei va epavalambavei ta idia kai ta idia.
Esu pou exei skai peira stn lista, giati;
Dev 3erw giati etsi autes tis meres, alla to movo pou exw va sustnsw
eivai HREMIA. Allwste ki o Saravtakos pouupoti0etai oti evoxln0nke apo
to 9ema dev blepw va petagetai ka0e pevte lepta kai va leei tou Iakwbidn
ta idia kai ta idia.
Auta ta lew me filikn dia0esn ka elpizw va mnv pare3ngn0eis. Dev mou
exeis dwsei tnv evtupwsn av0rwpou pou xairetai va koroideuei tous
allous. Kalo to doulema, alla kalo va stamataei kapou.
Elizabeth Kosmetatou wrote:
>
> Ti le re pou 0a mou peis me ti 0' asxoln0w kai me ti dev 0' asxoln0w stn
> lista! Ti se kavame edw mesa, kexagia tns listas ki egw eimai melos
> deuteras dialogns? Opws sou exouv episnmavei ki alloi, eivai dnmosio forum
> n lista kai etsi kai apofasisei kaveis mas va grapsei dnmosia kati, mporouv
> OLOI oi ypoloipoi ave3airetws va to sxoliasouv kai va pouv o,ti tous katebei!
>
> Katalabe to epitelous, mpatse tou glykou verou!
>
> Liza
--
Nikos Sarantakos
>
>PS Oso gia thn Liza... H Liza 8a se brizei gia gennaies dekatessares! Den
>Sarantakos, parolo oti exei apeilh8ei h swmatikh tou akaireothta. To 8ema
Apo th deuterh arada leipei to "me mena" ('opws den epapse na asxoleitai
me mena') alliws qa upeqete kaneis oti o Iakwbidhs me exei apeilhsei,
oper analhqes.
Blepw bebaia, w Astera, oti ki esu den epapses na asxoleisai me mena,
me to mataki sthn kleidarotrupa tou dhqen killfile sou eisai diarkws.
Bebaia, egw kuriws qeseis suzhtw kai krinw. An kai paradexomai
oti me sena exw kanei, twra teleutaia, mia eksairesh -metaksu allwn
epeidh mou fainetai akron awton ths upokrisias na kathgoreis sxedon
tous pantes gia meiwmeno patriwtismo kai, re pousth mou, na exeis
parei bretanikh uphkoothta aplws kai mono gia na mhn pas fantaros!
Kai oso sunexizeis na eisai timhths twn pantwn, qa trws th roxala
pou sou aksizei.
ns
UG
Parakalw ton Giannh Mixalopoulo, ton filo tou Astera, na tou prowqhsei
auto to mhnuma.
Nikos Sarantakos
><snip>
>
>Nai re Iakwbidh, bale toys oloys se kill file na grafeis sth lista kai na
>apantas mono soy, opws o Bretanos Yphkoos (TM Geitonas).
>
>SCD
>>
>> Sarantakos, parolo oti exei apeilh8ei h swmatikh tou akaireothta.
>
>
>SCD
Spuro, na sou pw. Mia allh fora, pro dietias isws, o idios Asteras
eixe apeilhsei oti qa katebei apo dw na me kanei kommatakia.
Kai enw eixa eidopoihsei tis armodies arxes (ton topiko
zwologiko khpo) na ton upodextoun, telika fanhke asunephs
kai me ekseqese. Opote, apo tote exw katalhksei na pisteuw
oti skuli pou gaugizei den dagkwnei.
ns
Nikos Sarantakos
kai na mhn ta egrapses me to xeraki sou giati krima einai.
Kai mou kanei entupwsh pou den blepeis ena aplo
meqodologiko faoul tou kuriou Skabantzou:
> Oi Zeimpekoi loipov katwkouv apo arxaiwv xrovwv, ws oi istorikoi
>dexovtai,
NS: poioi istorikoi? kamia anafora pera apo mia, pio katw, entelws
asafh
eis tas perioxas plnsiov tns Prousns (arxaia Musia -
>Frugia) kai peri3 twv Trallewv (arxaia Ludia). Ekei katwkouv kai
>alloi polloi laoi avaferomevoi tosov upo tou Omnrou osov kai upo tou
>Stradwvos (biblia id', ig', id' twv Gewgrafikwv).
Polloi alloi laoi, sigoura, alla oi ze.impekoi? An den tous anaferei
o Omhros kai o Strabwn, pros ti h anafora? Gia mpougio?
Upnrxov Ludoi,
>Kares, Fruges, 8rakes kai fusika Ellnves. O Stradwv (bibliov id' 46)
>legei, oti tnv poliv Nusa (Ludias) plnsiov twv Trallewv tnv idrusav
>Lakedaimovioi.
Piqanws orqo, alla pantelws asxeto kai me tous ze.impekous kai
me tous xasapous.
>Oi istorikoi, ws eipa,
ws den eipe
> oi gewgrafoi alla kai oi idioi
>oi Tourkoi (Xamdn Bens) paradexovtai, oti oi Zeimpekndes eivai
>apogovoi arxaiwv 8rakikwv fulwv (bl. Bital Kive, «Gewgrafia
>Asiatikns Tourkias»).
Blepe????
> O Strabwv eivai pio safns: «Ktisma de fasiv
>eivai tas Tralleis Argeiwv kai tivwv 8rakwv Tralleiwv uf' wv tovoma»
>(id' 42). Argeioi dnl. kai 8rakes epoikoi idrusav tas Tralleis.
Orqon isws, alla asxeto me to qema
>Eidame omws, oti oi Zeimpekndes katwkouv eis tnv perioxnv twv
>Trallewv.
Apo *pou* to eidame?
>Ara exomev miav akomn evdei3iv, oti oi Zeimpekndes exouv
>8rakiknv katagwgnv, opws 8rakiknv katagwgnv exouv kai oi Fruges
>(Prousa) (Hrodotos, Z' 73). Exoume loipov tnv prwtn mas evdei3iv,
>dti o Zeimpekikos xoros dev eivai tourkikos, alla exei arxaia
>8rakikn proeleusiv. 8a epistreyw eis to 8ema sto telos, otav 8a
>apopeira8w etumologiav tns le3ews «Zeimpekoi».
Katalabes? Kanei ena name-dropping me Hrodoto, Strabwna kai
den summazeuetai, alla apo pragmatikes phges meden eis to
phlikon.
Krima ton kopo sou, an den skanares.
ns
Spyros Daskaleas
allo mynhma eipe oti an kapoios ton elege poysth sta merh toy 8a ton
"soygiadaze". Foberos...
SCD
YG- To kako me ta klassika einai oti einai stis selides toy Astera kai den
mporoyme na baloyme tis ka8e eidoys malakies poy petaei poy kai poy...
YG2- To erwthma einai: an epairnes mpoylntog, 8a to ebaze ki ekeino se kill
file?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nikos Sarantakos [mailto:sar...@pt.lu]
> Sent: 05 March 2001 23:40
> To: Spyros Daskaleas; HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU
> Subject: Re: Ellhnikh patenta ta 9/8?
>
>
Phidias Bourlas
>
> Bre Feidia, elpizw ta parakatw na ta skanares me ton Rwso
> kai na mhn ta egrapses me to xeraki sou giati krima einai.
Kalos o Rwsos, parolo pou logw tou polutovikou oi tovoi bgnkav
alloprosalloi (dev ekava training). (Bebaia sta greeklish fugave.)
Pavtws, opws sou eipa, ki n P-L-B gia paradeigma ws vtopious
8rakikns proeleusews tous avaferei tous Zeumpekous. Opote, auto kai
tnv perioxn katoikias tous dev ta ebgale o ar8rografos apo to mualo tou
(kai parapempei kai se e8vologo k.a. pnges). Oi sxeseis me ta diafora
arxaia fula eivai bebaiws upo8etikes, alla pi8aves, logw topo8esias,
katagwgns kai politistikwv stoixeiwv. Logikn loipov o sullogismos exei.
To poso eparkn eivai twra ta stoixeia krive to.
F.M.
U.G.
Gia tov "fragkiko" pln8uvtiko eugeveias, pou les stnv Sofia,
etsi eivai asfalws. (Ki exouv pesei sto mati mou kai ar8ra
"arxaiolatrwv" pou proteivouv tnv plnrn katargnsn tou ws... "veorwmaiikns
douloprepeias"! :-) ) Wstoso diabaza pro kairou eva wraio ar8ro
tou Giavvara stnv "Ka8nmerivn" (to exw kratnsei), o opoios upostnrize,
or8ws, oti o sugxrovos astikos evikos (blepe sta MME p.x. ti givetai)
mallov laikistikos eivai kai oxi... epistrofn stnv Ellnvikotnta (allo
pragma o gvnsios evikos tns upai8rou), 3evofertn diastreblwsn dnl. tns
3evofertns diastreblwsns kai oxi apokatastasn tou Ellnvikou tropou.
Kai to Ellnviko n8os katafervei telika va ekfrastei mesw tou
pln8uvtikou kai oxi tou veoastikou laikistikou evikou.
Astikn politikn or8otns, 8a sxoliasei twra kaveis. Ev pasn
periptwsei.
> ns
F.M.
Asteras Amaliadas
> Afou o idios omologeis pos exeis dei ta stoixeia tou Fidia, pou me
>prolave, giati den asxoleisai me ayta?
Prwta apo ola, ta stoixeia tou Feidia einai apo ton Daulo, ena periodiko
pou exei 3erei to sumperasma prin kan brei stoixeia. Kai to sumperasma
panta einai oti ola einai ellhnika, akoma kai h Argentinh! Blepeis oti ki o
idios o Feidas ta deixnei me megalh epifullaktikothta...
Ta stoixeia gia ta opoia milaei h lista einai mia metafora mias pragmatias
enos germanou apo ton Tsianto, kai auta den ta exw dei...
>Apo opou, an meta tis amfisvitiseis,
>apodeixthei oti to zeimbekiko einai telika elliniki ypothesi, aytomata
>dikaiologeitai kai i diki mou paremvasi. Brosta sou ta exeis! H mipos
>ginetai i diadikasia gia tin diadikasia? Oriste loipon, stoixeia itheles.Ta
>exeis. Alla xechasa. Den ta efera ego alla o Feidias... Ara: pidixte ton ton
>kerata... Ti na po...
Ta dika sou stoixeia, 8a ta doume pote';
>Kali sou mera xana.
>
>Nikos Iakovidis
Asteras Amaliadas
Nikos Sarantakos
>Nikos Sarantakos wrote:
>>
>> Bre Feidia, elpizw ta parakatw na ta skanares me ton Rwso
>> kai na mhn ta egrapses me to xeraki sou giati krima einai.
>
> Kalos o Rwsos, parolo pou logw tou polutovikou oi tovoi bgnkav
>alloprosalloi (dev ekava training). (Bebaia sta greeklish fugave.)
Mono alloprosalloi bghkane? Pali kala. Giati egw pou skanara
kati alla polutonika, me ta pneumata eixa problhmata, p.x.
to oti (daseia-okseia, e?) to bgazei 'dti'. Dokimasa na kanw
training, alla' kati den phge kala.
>
> Pavtws, opws sou eipa, ki n P-L-B gia paradeigma ws vtopious
>8rakikns proeleusews tous avaferei tous Zeumpekous. Opote, auto kai
>tnv perioxn katoikias tous dev ta ebgale o ar8rografos apo to mualo tou
>(kai parapempei kai se e8vologo k.a. pnges). Oi sxeseis me ta diafora
>arxaia fula eivai bebaiws upo8etikes, alla pi8aves, logw topo8esias,
>katagwgns kai politistikwv stoixeiwv. Logikn loipov o sullogismos exei.
>To poso eparkn eivai twra ta stoixeia krive to.
Bre paidi mou, oles oi parapompes se arxaious einai ek tou perissou,
auto einai to meqodologiko faoul.
ns