Gallop toy Yp.Es gia toys metanastes

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makis

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Aug 17, 2001, 5:30:03 AM8/17/01
to
To Yp.Eswterikwn ekane ena thlefwniko gallop se 734 noikokyria toy
Lekanopedioy Attikhs poy dhmosieythke sthn <Eleytherotypia> kai to
<BHMA> thn 1h Aygoystoy.
Moy ekane entypwsh poy den to brhka sta site twn efhmeridwn aytwn alla
kai sta alla megala portals (in.gr, flash.gr). To bazw loipon pros
enhmerwsh kai sxoliasmo.

Exei ws ejhs:

Erwthsh:
Genika h paroysia allodapwn sthn xwra mas einai gia sas:
1) Uetiko gegonos = 15,5%
2) Fysiologiko gegonos = 39,2%
3) Mallon anhsyxithko gegonos = 32,4%
4) Einai mia apeilh = 11,7%
5) DG/DA = 1,2%

Epishs:
Exete sxeseis me allodapoys?
1) OXI = 56,7%
2) NAI = 43,3%

To sxolio moy.
To gegonos oti profanws oi erwtoymenoi gnwrizan oti to gallop einai toy
Yp.Es. nomizw oti apotrece arketoys apo to na ekfrasoyn thn - opoia-
arnhtikh toys gnwmh. (foboymenoi isws "fakelwma" toys afoy to noymero
toys htan gnwsto stoys erwtoyntes, idiws an htan dhmosioi ypallhloi)
Epishs periorizetai sthn Attikh kai oxi sthn eparxia opoy nomizw oi
arnhtikoi chfoi ua htan perissoteroi.

Makis (Apollwnios)

Phidias Bourlas

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Aug 17, 2001, 6:30:01 AM8/17/01
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Eivai evtupwsiako!
Askeitai ousiastika fasistikn bia kai propagavda
prokeimevou va mas epiballouv tous allofulous la8rometavastates
kai va alloiwsouv ews apaleiyews tnv e8vikn mas tautotnta,
kai omws o Ellnvikos laos e3akolou8ei va avtisteketai!

F.M.

Spyros Daskaleas

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Aug 17, 2001, 6:30:02 AM8/17/01
to
Einai pragmati entypwsiako! Mesa sth bia kai th no8eia twn thlefwnikwn
gkalop (poy ypo8etw den ginontai anwnyma gia na ginei to fakelwma twn
"pagkosmiopoihtofilwn", opws o3yderkws epishmanei o filos Makhs), ena 11,7%
sympolitwn mas eixe to 8ARROS na shkwsei to anasthma toy kai na pei: NO
PASARAN!

Mprabo stoys sympolites mas poy eixan thn ENTIMOTHTA kai to 8ARROS na poyn
stoys fasistes gkalopierhdes ths pagkosmiopoihsofilhs kybernhshs mas ena
"OXI", anta3io ths fylhs mas kai twn kopwn twn propapoydwn mas! ZHTW H
ELLAS!

SCD

makis

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Aug 17, 2001, 6:30:03 AM8/17/01
to
Gia fasistikh bia ua elega pws einai yperboliko alla gia propaganda sigoyra
nai.
To spotaki px. gia thn nomimopoihsh twn lauraiwn, eixe ton xamogelasto Hasan
poy einai Syros (6% sto synolo twn metanastwn) kai oxi Albanos poy einai to
60% kai gnwsth symperifora.
Ton Hasan ton eixe kai se synenteyjh kapoio kanali, exei dikh toy epixeirhsh
yalopinakwn kai egine diashmos. Perase apo epilogh metajy 40 atomwn kai phre
amoibh 80 xil.gia to diafhmistiko spotaki.

Makis (Apollwnios)

makis

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Aug 17, 2001, 6:30:04 AM8/17/01
to
Diabaze kalytera!
11,7+32,4 = 43,1
Otan exoyme ena spiti poy menoyn 2 kai o enas exei antirhsh na eruei kai 3os,
nomizw to logiko - kai dhmokratiko an ayto leei kati gia sena- einai na mhn
eruh.

Makis


Spyros Daskaleas wrote:

> Einai pragmati entypwsiako! Mesa sth bia kai th no8eia twn thlefwnikwn
> gkalop (poy ypo8etw den ginontai anwnyma gia na ginei to fakelwma twn
> "pagkosmiopoihtofilwn", opws o3yderkws epishmanei o filos Makhs), ena 11,7%
> sympolitwn mas eixe to 8ARROS na shkwsei to anasthma toy kai na pei: NO
> PASARAN!
>
> Mprabo stoys sympolites mas poy eixan thn ENTIMOTHTA kai to 8ARROS na poyn
> stoys fasistes gkalopierhdes ths pagkosmiopoihsofilhs kybernhshs mas ena
> "OXI", anta3io ths fylhs mas kai twn kopwn twn propapoydwn mas! ZHTW H
> ELLAS!
>
> SCD
> >
> >

makis

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Aug 17, 2001, 7:30:03 AM8/17/01
to
makis wrote:

> Diabaze kalytera!
> 11,7+32,4 = 43,1

dioruwsh:
44,1

Spyros Daskaleas

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Aug 17, 2001, 7:30:02 AM8/17/01
to
Ti le re Apollwnie poy 8a mas peis twra oti einai dhmokratiko na diw3oyme
synan8rwpoys mas apo th xwra diamonhs toys epeidh ena 11,7% amorfwtwn /
hli8iwn / klaniarhdwn "Ellhnwn" nomizei oti einai mia apeilh? Kai, mias kai
mas ma8aineis "dhmokratikes diadikasies", se mia dhmokratia ginetai ayto poy
leei h pleiopshfia, kai h pleiopshfia den einai mikronooi tsiftetellhnes.

SCD

> -----Original Message-----
> From: makis [mailto:sava...@HOL.GR]
> Sent: 17 August 2001 10:16
> To: HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU
> Subject: Re: Gallop toy Yp.Es gia toys metanastes
>
>
> Diabaze kalytera!
> 11,7+32,4 = 43,1

makis

unread,
Aug 17, 2001, 7:30:03 AM8/17/01
to
Enw otan to 20% den uelei na grafetai to Urhskeyma stis taytothtes, ayto prepei
na to yiouethsei kai 80%, nes pa?

Yiannis Trifillis

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Aug 17, 2001, 7:30:04 AM8/17/01
to
Esy ti perimenes re Spyro apo th xwra twn metriwn?
An akoystei mia klania pio dynata apo to kanoniko, paei, xasame to
mpoysoyla...
Den eida na anyshxei kanenas anw toy metrioy.
Mono oi ypo toy mesoy oroy.

yt

Spyros Daskaleas

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Aug 17, 2001, 7:30:04 AM8/17/01
to
Poio 80% re kakomoirh?

SCD

>
> Enw otan to 20% den uelei na grafetai to Urhskeyma stis
> taytothtes, ayto prepei
> na to yiouethsei kai 80%, nes pa?
>

Ioannis Dimakos

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Aug 17, 2001, 9:30:02 AM8/17/01
to
Pros to telos Maiou kaname mia mikrh ereyna sthn perioxh ths Uessalonikhs me
deigma mathites gumnasiou kai xrhsimopoiwntas thn Modern Racism Scale alla
kai zhtwntas apo tous mathites na mas poun th gnwmh tous gia tous metanastes
xwris na tous diakrinoume se nomimous h; paranomous. Tote nomizw eixe hdh
arxisei na paizetai kai to spottaki me ton Hasan.

Apo ta apotelesmata tou mikrou mas deigmatos n=100 eidame pws ta paidia
eixan ontws arnhtikes antilhpseis gia tous metanastes, anexarthtws
koinwniko-oikonomikou h' morfwtikoy epipedou. Epishs mas ekane entupwsh pws
den brhkan na poun tipote to thetiko gia tous metanastes para mono gia th
suneisfora tous ws fthna ergatika xeria. Gia opoion endiaferetai, to paper
sth diathesh tou alla parakalw me kat'idian email gia na mhn fortwnoume th
lista.

Paromoia sumperasmata eixe brei ki h Aik. Xantzh tou Pan. Patrwn (twra einai
sto Panteio) se megaluterhs ektashs ereuna alla auth eixe xrhsimopoihsei
enhlikes kai foithtes sto deigma ths.

Giannis

-----Original Message-----
From: The Hellenic Discussion List [mailto:HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU]On

Exei ws ejhs:

Makis (Apollwnios)

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Andreas Stalidis

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Aug 17, 2001, 9:30:03 AM8/17/01
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Allou einai h propaganda:

> Genika h paroysia allodapwn sthn xwra mas einai gia
sas:
> 1) Uetiko gegonos = 15,5%
> 2) Fysiologiko gegonos = 39,2%

Ti 8a pei "fusiologiko gegonos"???

"Fusiologiko gegonos" 8a pei oti, nai katalabainw
giati hr8an oi allodapoi sthn Ellada. Dhladh, _kamia_
gnwmh gia to 8ema!

Ta "8etiko", "anhsuxhtiko" kai "apeilh" einai
apopseis, to "fusiologiko" einai katanohsh tou
problhmatos. O monos logos pou brisketai ekei einai na
trabhksei th maza na epileksei to b.

Sunh8ws, se tetoies erwthseis prospa8oun na
metafrasoun stis apanthseis th seira: +2, +1, -1, -2.
Otan to +1 to kaneis 0, tote to diogkwneis gia tis
entupwseis.

> 3) Mallon anhsyxithko gegonos = 32,4%
> 4) Einai mia apeilh = 11,7%
> 5) DG/DA = 1,2

Andreas.

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

makis

unread,
Aug 17, 2001, 11:30:03 AM8/17/01
to
Sygnwmh . 85%
http://www.new-world-order.org/taytothtes.html

Makis


Spyros Daskaleas wrote:

> > > > > To Yp.Eswterikwn ekane ena thlefwniko gallop se 734
> > noikokyria toy
> > > > > Lekanopedioy Attikhs poy dhmosieythke sthn
> > <Eleytherotypia> kai to
> > > > > <BHMA> thn 1h Aygoystoy.
> > > > > Moy ekane entypwsh poy den to brhka sta site twn efhmeridwn
> > > > aytwn alla
> > > > > kai sta alla megala portals (in.gr, flash.gr). To bazw
> > loipon pros
> > > > > enhmerwsh kai sxoliasmo.
> > > > >
> > > > > Exei ws ejhs:
> > > > >
> > > > > Erwthsh:

> > > > > Genika h paroysia allodapwn sthn xwra mas einai gia sas:
> > > > > 1) Uetiko gegonos = 15,5%
> > > > > 2) Fysiologiko gegonos = 39,2%

> > > > > 3) Mallon anhsyxithko gegonos = 32,4%
> > > > > 4) Einai mia apeilh = 11,7%

Spyros Daskaleas

unread,
Aug 17, 2001, 11:30:03 AM8/17/01
to
Eisai gia ta panhgyria ki esy kai ta gkalop soy.

SCD

Sophia Economides

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Aug 17, 2001, 12:30:01 PM8/17/01
to
> > Apo ta apotelesmata tou mikrou mas deigmatos n=100 eidame pws ta paidia
> eixan ontws arnhtikes antilhpseis gia tous metanastes, anexarthtws
> koinwniko-oikonomikou h' morfwtikoy epipedou

Mnpws mporeis va to avaluseis ligo parapavw auto to "ave3artntwv koivwviko-oikovomikou epipedou" giati apo auta pou diabazw stn lista blepw suxva to "autoi pou ta pisteuouv auta eivai oi amorfwtoi/ upavaptuktoi/ mn avtiproswpeutiko deigma tou plu0ismou" klp klp, dnladn tnv apoyn oti opoiadnpote arvntikn stasn pros tous metavastes periorizetai se sugkekrimevn omada.

_______________________________________________________________________
FSmail - Get your free web-based email from Freeserve: www.fsmail.net

makis

unread,
Aug 17, 2001, 12:30:02 PM8/17/01
to
File Spyro,

To "fakelwma" poy lew den einai toso dyskolo na ginei.
Giayto allwste ta pio egkyra gallop ginontai me kalph Ase poy kratane kai alla
stoixeia opws hlikia, morfwsh poy den mas leei tipota giayta to en logw
gallop.
O tropos einai o ejhs:
Kapoios ypallhlos toy Yp.Es. pairnei thn disketa me ta 734 thlefwna, thn paei
sto grafeio toy opoy exei prosbash sta diasyndedemena arxeia twn dhmosiwn
ypallhlwn (h oswn allwn goystarei kai exei prosbash) kai stelnei ena SQL Query
poy toy epistrefei ta onomata oswn briskei oti exoyn to idio thlefwno. Ayto
bebaia den mporei na to jerei enas koinos unhtos alla mporei eykola na to
ypopteyuei enas mesos noys me bash to enstikto toy.
H gnwmh moy einai pws o k.Dafermos an uelei na asxolhuei kai me kati sobaro,
na apagoreysei ta thlefwnika gallop poy exoyn politikh klp xroia. Kai nomizw
pws h syntriptikh pleiochfia exei - amesws h emesws.
Ase poy nomizw oti kykloforoyn kai se CD ta thlefwna me ta onomata -
dieyuynseis olhs ths Ellados. (oxi ayta toy OTE, alla)

makis

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Aug 17, 2001, 12:30:03 PM8/17/01
to
Kai sysai ena fasistomoytro neotajiths

Makis


Spyros Daskaleas wrote:

> Eisai gia ta panhgyria ki esy kai ta gkalop soy.
>
> SCD
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: makis [mailto:sava...@hol.gr]
> > Sent: 17 August 2001 15:08
> > To: Spyros Daskaleas
> > Cc: HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Gallop toy Yp.Es gia toys metanastes
> >
> >
> > Sygnwmh . 85%
> > http://www.new-world-order.org/taytothtes.html
> >
> > Makis
> >
> >
> > Spyros Daskaleas wrote:
> >
> > > Poio 80% re kakomoirh?
> > >
> > > SCD
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Enw otan to 20% den uelei na grafetai to Urhskeyma stis
> > > > taytothtes, ayto prepei
> > > > na to yiouethsei kai 80%, nes pa?
> > > >

> > > > Makis
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Spyros Daskaleas wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Einai pragmati entypwsiako! Mesa sth bia kai th no8eia twn
> > > > thlefwnikwn
> > > > > gkalop (poy ypo8etw den ginontai anwnyma gia na ginei to
> > > > fakelwma twn
> > > > > "pagkosmiopoihtofilwn", opws o3yderkws epishmanei o filos
> > > > Makhs), ena 11,7%
> > > > > sympolitwn mas eixe to 8ARROS na shkwsei to anasthma toy
> > > > kai na pei: NO
> > > > > PASARAN!
> > > > >
> > > > > Mprabo stoys sympolites mas poy eixan thn ENTIMOTHTA kai to
> > > > 8ARROS na poyn
> > > > > stoys fasistes gkalopierhdes ths pagkosmiopoihsofilhs
> > > > kybernhshs mas ena
> > > > > "OXI", anta3io ths fylhs mas kai twn kopwn twn propapoydwn
> > > > mas! ZHTW H
> > > > > ELLAS!
> > > > >
> > > > > SCD
> > > > > >
> > > > > >

Myron Kaisides

unread,
Aug 17, 2001, 12:30:04 PM8/17/01
to
> Mprabo stoys sympolites mas poy eixan thn ENTIMOTHTA kai to 8ARROS na poyn
> stoys fasistes gkalopierhdes ths pagkosmiopoihsofilhs kybernhshs mas ena
> "OXI", anta3io ths fylhs mas kai twn kopwn twn propapoydwn mas! ZHTW H
> ELLAS!

*** Oi propappoudes mas polemhsan kai kopiasan gia na pernaei ta synora
shmera opoios goustarei kai se crono dt na ginetai "Ellhnas"?

Oso gia thn fulh mas,poia einai h fulh mas thn opoian epikaleisai?
Symfwna me ta pisteyw sou, an katalavainw kala, eimaste
Ouggrotourkomoggoloindianopersovoulgaroalvanoslavoitalofragkogermanoaggloisp
ano-
avarotsigganoaravoaiguptiakosuriakoassyriakoirakinoevraikosouhdorwssoservokr
oato-
mousoulmanovoudistoiecwvadomi9raistosintoistoindouistoellhnes, opote ti
akrivws
shmainei "fulh" wste na milas gia "OXI" kai gia mh-antaxious apogonous?

Egw vriskw mallon sthmena mikro to 11% giati an kanoun oi gkaimpeliskoi ths
kuvernhshs
kai ths polupolitismikothtas mia volta sthh polh, 9a akousoun para polla
gamostauridia
apo osous milane ellhnika ( den lew Ellhnes mhpws parexhgh9eis, dioti ws
gnwston
"Ellhnas Poliths" einai kai enas Mousoulmanos Pakistanos pou agnoouse pou
peftei
h cwra mas, mecri pou xevrasthke apo to doulemporiko pou ton metefere
kapou.)

> SCD

mk

Myron Kaisides

unread,
Aug 17, 2001, 12:30:05 PM8/17/01
to
*** Sofia mhn akous kai mhn dineis shmasia se malakies. Ayth einai mia
sunechs plush egkefalou
apo tous polupolitismikous, oi opoioi epidiwkoun na dhmiourghsoun mia eikona
opou sugkrouetai
to "dhmokratiko" kai morfwmeno kommati ths koinwnias me to fasistiko kai
amorfwto.

H pragmatikothta einai oti sugkrouontai autoi pou zoun ston kosmo tous me
ekeinous pou den
9eloun na doun thn Ellada na ginetai Kossufopedio. Den eceis para na
milhseis me *opoiondhpote*
A9hnaio, gia na deis posoi einai oi men kai posoi oi de. Kai poio einai to
epipedo twn men kai twn
de.Mia tragikh meiopshfia vriskei 9etika ta osa kanei h kuvernhsh ayth, sto
sygkekrimeno 9ema.

Periergws ayth h tragikh meiopshfia vriskei *panta* mesa gia na
parousiazetai sta MME. Periergws...

Vevaia h kyvernhsh pou polema otidhpote e9niko me mania, den 9a ecei
provlhma apo tous Ellhnes
stis ekloges, mias kai 9a valei tous "Ellhnes polites" na pshfisoun, asceta
an den xeroun pou peftei
h Voulh twn Ellhnwn.

mk

Spyros Daskaleas

unread,
Aug 17, 2001, 1:30:05 PM8/17/01
to
Akoy fasistomoytro... Gia ola yparxei prwth fora...

SCD

> > > > > > Mprabo stoys sympolites mas poy eixan thn ENTIMOTHTA kai to
> > > > > 8ARROS na poyn
> > > > > > stoys fasistes gkalopierhdes ths pagkosmiopoihsofilhs
> > > > > kybernhshs mas ena
> > > > > > "OXI", anta3io ths fylhs mas kai twn kopwn twn propapoydwn
> > > > > mas! ZHTW H
> > > > > > ELLAS!
> > > > > >

Spyros Daskaleas

unread,
Aug 17, 2001, 1:30:05 PM8/17/01
to
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Myron Kaisides [mailto:myr...@ath.forthnet.gr]
> Sent: 17 August 2001 16:35
> To: Spyros Daskaleas; HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU
> Subject: RE: Gallop toy Yp.Es gia toys metanastes
>
>
> > Mprabo stoys sympolites mas poy eixan thn ENTIMOTHTA kai to
> 8ARROS na poyn
> > stoys fasistes gkalopierhdes ths pagkosmiopoihsofilhs
> kybernhshs mas ena
> > "OXI", anta3io ths fylhs mas kai twn kopwn twn propapoydwn
> mas! ZHTW H
> > ELLAS!
>
> *** Oi propappoudes mas polemhsan kai kopiasan gia na pernaei
> ta synora
> shmera opoios goustarei kai se crono dt na ginetai "Ellhnas"?

Oxi re Myrwna, alla den polemhsan kai kopiasan gia na mas blepoyn emas, toys
prwtoys die8nistes aytoy toy planhth na kleinomaste sto kaboyki mas.

>
> Oso gia thn fulh mas,poia einai h fulh mas thn opoian epikaleisai?
> Symfwna me ta pisteyw sou, an katalavainw kala, eimaste
> Ouggrotourkomoggoloindianopersovoulgaroalvanoslavoitalofragkog
> ermanoaggloisp
> ano-
> avarotsigganoaravoaiguptiakosuriakoassyriakoirakinoevraikosouh
> dorwssoservokr
> oato-
> mousoulmanovoudistoiecwvadomi9raistosintoistoindouistoellhnes,
> opote ti
> akrivws
> shmainei "fulh" wste na milas gia "OXI" kai gia mh-antaxious
> apogonous?

Eimaste ELLHNES kai oi Ellhnes pote den klaigontoysan.


>
> Egw vriskw mallon sthmena mikro to 11% giati an kanoun oi
> gkaimpeliskoi ths
> kuvernhshs
> kai ths polupolitismikothtas mia volta sthh polh, 9a akousoun
> para polla
> gamostauridia
> apo osous milane ellhnika ( den lew Ellhnes mhpws
> parexhgh9eis, dioti ws
> gnwston
> "Ellhnas Poliths" einai kai enas Mousoulmanos Pakistanos pou
> agnoouse pou
> peftei
> h cwra mas, mecri pou xevrasthke apo to doulemporiko pou ton metefere
> kapou.)

Ki otan oi pappoydes mas kai oi paterades mas shkw8hkan kai efygan apo th
xwra toys gia na bgoyn apo th mizeria poy toys ederne htan kalliteroi apo
toys "dikoys mas"?

SCD

Sotiris Skevoulis

unread,
Aug 17, 2001, 1:30:07 PM8/17/01
to
Paei o kafenes exase thn lampsh tou....Akou kei "eisai fasistomoutro"
"eisai gia ta panhgyria"....Pou einai oi palies kales epoxes pou peftane
stolidia paromoiwseis....:


"Eisai mia brwmerh kai lerwmenh metaxeirismenh serbietta" ....!!!!

Nostalgwntas...:-))
Sotiris


> > Kai sysai ena fasistomoytro neotajiths
> > Makis

> > > Eisai gia ta panhgyria ki esy kai ta gkalop soy.
> > > SCD

Spyros Daskaleas

unread,
Aug 17, 2001, 1:30:08 PM8/17/01
to
Trabas kanena zori re? :-)

SCD

PS Me plhgwnei pantws poy den 8ewroymai pleon mpinelikomaxos... Ki egw poy
pisteya oti eixa peta3ei brwma a3eplyth sth lista...

Sophia

unread,
Aug 17, 2001, 4:30:02 PM8/17/01
to
Myron Kaisides wrote:
>
> *** Sofia mhn akous kai mhn dineis shmasia se malakies. Ayth einai mia
> sunechs plush egkefalou
> apo tous polupolitismikous, oi opoioi epidiwkoun na dhmiourghsoun mia eikona
> opou sugkrouetai
> to "dhmokratiko" kai morfwmeno kommati ths koinwnias me to fasistiko kai
> amorfwto.

To ti eivai dnmokratiko kai ti fasistiko, eivai vomizw teleiws reusto. O
ka0evas to blepei opws 0elei. Twra av n apoyn mas diaferei apo tns
pleioynfias auto de snmaivei aparaitnta oti n pleioynfia eivai
upavaptuktoi 'n amorfwtoi. Giati eite mas aresei 'n oxi, oloi ta idia
dikaiwmata exoume.
Pisteuw oti eva gkalop pou apeu0uvetai se veous gia eva 0ema opws n
metavasteusn 0a exei pio evdiaferovta apotelesmata ap'o,ti to avtistoixo
se emgalous giati ta paidia metaferouv auta pou koubevtiazovtai sta
spitia tous xwris va fobouvtai mnv ta pouv ratsistes 'n amorfwtous.
Ki blepw oti to sustnma plusns egkefalou pou upostnkame ki emeis sav
ma0ntes kai suvexizouv va ufistavtai ta snmeriva pitsirikia (sxetika me
to posa kaka eivai ta ergostasia kai pws av ola ta paidia tou kosmou
dwsouv ta xeria klp klp) dev faivetai va piavei kai toso.


>
> de.Mia tragikh meiopshfia vriskei 9etika ta osa kanei h kuvernhsh ayth, sto
> sygkekrimeno 9ema.
> Periergws ayth h tragikh meiopshfia vriskei *panta* mesa gia na
> parousiazetai sta MME. Periergws...

Egw 0a to e0eta alliws alla telos pavtwv... Egw blepeis ws ektos Elladas
blepw va apramevei sta0ern n mavia tou Ellnva va autokolakeuetai oti
eivai movtervos, evnmerwmevos, 3erei ti givetai allou, uio0etei auta pou
blepei allou asxeta av oi suv0nkes stis opoies auta avaptux0nkav dev
exouv kamia sxesn em Ellada klp klp. Kai e3ngw pali: sto UK (kai loipes
eurwpaikes xwres me prwnv apoikies kai susswreusn allodapwv apo palia)
uparxei xovtros ratsismos kai tnv plnrwvouv kuriws oi leukoi metavastes
uynlou epipedou. Yparxei omws mia merida Agglwv oi opoioi to paizouv
movtervoi kai wraioi kai oi opoioi kavouv tn megalutern fasaria, kai
diarrngviouv ta imatia tous gia va apodei3ouv oti o ratsismos pou
uparxei eivai faivomevo epipedou podosfairoxouligkavwv. Oi idioi to
paizouv oloi aderfia eimaste. Snmeiwsn: Suvn0ws autoi pou to kavouv auto
fwvazouv uper twv maurwv/ ivdwv/ pakistavwv klp pou zouv stis ergatikes
katoikies, mia pou dev prokeitai pote va tous suvavtnsouv kai koitave va
fave tov Ellnva, to Gallo, tov Ispavo pou mporei va bre0ei mprosta tous,
va douleuei dipla tous kai va pairvei proagwges pou 0a n0elav oi idioi.
Auto to eidos pou egw aplws tous lew veoploutous (giati exei kalo
eisodnma, kavei epevduseis, stelvei ta paidia tou sta "swsta" sxoleia,
suxvazei sta "swsta" mern kai exei tis "swstes" apoyeis) 0a prepei va to
blepeis ka0e mera KAI stnv Ellada. Sto katw katw, egw to blepw ka0e fora
pou paw Ellada stous palious sumfoitntes kai sumfoitntries pou twra to
paizouv giapndes. E, paw stoixnma oti ama emfavizovtav aurio stnv
etairia tous pevte Pakistavoi kompiouterades kai epiavav douleia 3afvika
0a tous eftaigav oi metavastes. Ki av aurio n Ivtrakom arxize va fervei
proswpiko apo Ivdia me to miso mis0o va deis pws oi giapndes 0a
gkriviazav.
Autn tn me0odo tns metaforas katastasewv xwris va ak0isouv va skeftouv
tis idiaiteres suv0nkes tns xwras vomizw polu wraia tnv eixe dei3ei o
Adriavopoulos priv kati xrovia se suvevteu3n tou pou mas eipe oti stnv
Ellada exoume kosmo pou zei apo ta epidomata avergias trwgovtas ta
kratika lefta (pali kala pou dev eipe kai gia avnlikes mnteres pou
mevouv egkues gia va tous dwsei to kratos spiti, dnladn).

Oso gia to ratsismo twv paidiwv, apo filn mou ekpaideutiko exw akousei
kamposa. Ta akkomoira ta albavakai tou sxoleiou tns pervave TA marturia.
Kai to xeirotero, oi drastes dev timwrouvtai giati "ela mwre, to
albavaki plakwse sto 3ulo".

--
###### ### ### # ### # ___
# # # # # # # # # # <*,->
# # # # # # # # # # [`-'] H ev tn pura elaiov riptousa
### ### ### ## ### # -"-"-
#
#

NikosE

unread,
Aug 17, 2001, 6:30:58 PM8/17/01
to
Paidia, exw ka8arh kai an8rwpistikh lush sto 8ema twn metanastwn: me thn
*eugonikh*

O ka8e metanasths(ria) gia na parameinei sth Ellada, 8a einai
upoxrewmenos(h) na ginei Or8. Xristianos(h) - 8a fainetai emfanws sthn
tautothta tou(hs) - kai na pantreuth ka8aroaimo(h) Ellhna(ida), o opoios(a)
8a proikodothtai apo to dhmosio me analogo kinhtro.

Ws gnwston, apo tous panarxaious xronous, ta ellhnika gonidia einai zwrika
kai uperexoun/epikratoun twn gonidiwn opoioudhpote allou laou/ratsas/fulhs.
Sunepws, ta tekna apo mia tetoia enwsh 8a exoun ws epi to pleiston ta
uperexonta ellhnika gonidia. Se duo genies, h istoria teleiwse: apo tous
men metanastes 8a exoun meinei mono ta kokalakia tous, oi de apogonoi tous
8a einai amigws ellhnes.

Bebaia, ena paromoio susthma den 8a mporouse na efarmos8ei gia ta ekatomuria
twn ellhnwn metanastwn kai tous apogonous tous (to ena trito tou
Ellhnismou?) ana ton kosmo. Eipame, to ellhniko to gonidio einai zwriko kai
den katalabainei apo alles ratses. Outws .h. allws, tous Ellhnes
metanastes - pou htan, toulaxiston ws epi to pleiston h metepolemikh
fournia, aggrammatoi, ftwxoi kai talaipwrhmenoi - tous upodexthkan me
anoixtes agkalies sta perata ths oikoumenhs. Na oi portes twn saloniwn
anoixtes sthn Amerikh, Australia, Kanada, Germania, Belgio, Agglia, k.l.p.
Tous kanane manatzerides sta xwrafia, stis famprikes, sta an8rakoruxeia kai
sta estiatoria, ekei pou oi ntopioi den eixan ta fonta na apodosoun. Me
amoibes plousioparoxes. Me ta ergatika sundikata na tous uposthrizoun. Me
tis kubernhseis autwn twn xwrwn na bgazoun nomous gia xarh kai wfelos twn
ellhnwn. Kai fusika oi ntopioi na latreuoun tous Ellhnes: akoun oi ntopioi
ellhnika sto dromo kai dakruzoun apo th sugkinhsh. Blepoun Ellhna kai to
bhma tous allazei sto ru8mo tou 'Zorba the Greek'. Oi ntopies na loiwnoun
stis agkalies twn ellhnwn. Oxi san tous Italous .h. tous Yugo .h. tous
Tourkous metanastes pou tous brizoun, pou tous 8ewroun brwmikous,
amorfwtous, sixamerous, upan8rwpous, ela omws pou tous xreiazontai gia na
tous kanoun tis kakoplhrwmenes brwmodouleies pou oi ntopioi den goustaroun
na kanoun.

Ola auta ta 3erei o ka8e ellhnas pou exei/eixe kapoio suggenh, filo .h.
gnwsto metanasth ana thn ufhlio. Ta 3erei ka8e ellhnikh oikogeneia pou
elambane embasmata apo ton diko ths an8rwpo ton metanasth, gia na ta bgazei
pera .h./kai na spoudash ta paidia ths gia ena kalutero aurio.

Kai exei er8ei h seira allwn metanastwn, atomwn upodeesterwn ratswn, paidiwn
enos katwterou 8eou, na er8oun san metanastes sthn Ellada. Pws mporoume na
tous upodextoume, pou den reei aima ellhniko stis flebes tous? Pws mporoume
na paromoiasoume thn ftwxeia tous, thn dipsa tous gia mia kaluterh zwh, thn
agwnia tous gia to mellon twn paidiwn tous, me auth twn Ellhnwn metanastwn
tou parel8ontos, afou den katagontai apo to eugeniko ellhniko genos?

To 3ebrakwma twn megalo.i.deastwn einai to metro ths *3eftulas* tous.

Filakia,

NikosE
sunta3iouxos manatzerhs an8rakoruxeiou
Belgio


"makis" <sava...@HOL.GR> wrote in message
news:9lio6r$rrc$1...@cruncher.dfci.harvard.edu...

Ioannis Dimakos

unread,
Aug 17, 2001, 6:31:01 PM8/17/01
to
Apanthsh sthn aporia ths sophias:

analusame ta epaggelmata twn goniwn kai eidame pws ta paidia kai twn
dikhgorwn kai twn ergatwn anexairetws eixan tis idies apopseis. epishs
koitaxame kai to bathmo tou kathe mathiti mhpws eixe kapoia sunafeia me tis
antilhpseis gia tous metanastes. tipote ki edw.

To mono entharuntiko stoixeio enas mikros alla statistika shmantikos deikths
sunafeias metaxu hlikias kai antilhpsewn. ta megalutera paidia eixan
thetikoteres antilhpseis apo oti oi mikroteroi mathites.

auta

gianis

-----Original Message-----
From: Sophia Economides [mailto:sop...@sapience.freeserve.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 6:26 PM
To: idim...@otenet.gr; HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU
Subject: Re: Gallop toy Yp.Es gia toys metanastes

> > Apo ta apotelesmata tou mikrou mas deigmatos n=100 eidame pws ta paidia
> eixan ontws arnhtikes antilhpseis gia tous metanastes, anexarthtws
> koinwniko-oikonomikou h' morfwtikoy epipedou

Mnpws mporeis va to avaluseis ligo parapavw auto to "ave3artntwv


koivwviko-oikovomikou epipedou" giati apo auta pou diabazw stn lista blepw
suxva to "autoi pou ta pisteuouv auta eivai oi amorfwtoi/ upavaptuktoi/ mn
avtiproswpeutiko deigma tou plu0ismou" klp klp, dnladn tnv apoyn oti
opoiadnpote arvntikn stasn pros tous metavastes periorizetai se sugkekrimevn
omada.

_______________________________________________________________________


FSmail - Get your free web-based email from Freeserve: www.fsmail.net

---

Yiannis Trifillis

unread,
Aug 17, 2001, 6:31:01 PM8/17/01
to
Poly apla....

SYGXARHTHRIA!!

YT

> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Hellenic Discussion List

> [mailto:HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU]On Behalf Of NikosE
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 12:27 AM
> To: HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU
> Subject: Re: Gallop toy Yp.Es gia toys metanastes
>
>

Spyros Daskaleas

unread,
Aug 17, 2001, 6:31:03 PM8/17/01
to
Egrapses... MPRABO SOY!!!

SCD

> -----Original Message-----
> From: NikosE [mailto:Nik...@PANDORA.BE]
> Sent: 17 August 2001 22:27
> To: HEL...@LISTS.PSU.EDU
> Subject: Re: Gallop toy Yp.Es gia toys metanastes
>
>
> Paidia, exw ka8arh kai an8rwpistikh lush sto 8ema twn
> metanastwn: me thn
> *eugonikh*

<snip>

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