[GN] Churches and Homosexuality
Tim Kerslake
> Yes, why not try that for a change, instead of targeting every one of
> my points with the most absurd and vacuous rebuttals. Instead of
> arguing with me every step of the way, give credit where credit is
> due: I *have inspired our community, and many of my best ideas have
> been incorporated. But others claim the credit! No matter: I am
> honored to see my ideals flourish to liberate my LGBT Family. God and
> the Angels know my contributions: why should I obsess over theft of my
> ideas? For though squirrels steal acorns for their own joy, mighty
> oaks still grow to shade all.
Well, it's just interesting that many of the messages I have seen from you
coming into my inbox seem very quick to judge others. Like many of us
here, you are very dedicated ... it seems to me, though, that you need to
be living in an idealistic world for some of your ideas to work
effectively.
Chief Thracian wrote:
> For starters: a lovely young homeless man of 23 has stolen my heart,
> and we now share the same home, the same life.
I'm worried. I don't fully know the situation - I only know what you have
said to me in that statement. I'm just warning you from extensive
personal experience that introducing people in that situation into my life
so closely has got me into trouble in the past. That may just be my
misfortune though.
Chief Thracian wrote:
> And that, my friend, is true devotion. You grossly underestimate me,
> and dance all over my ideals like they were nothing more than rabbit
> droppings. What a jaded universe you have created for yourself...I
> doubt there is life on *any of your planets.
As I said before, very quick to judge. The only reason I come across the
way I do is that it annoys me when people can't see the other side of the
argument. I have not been around the activist scene nearly as long as you
did (you're more than twice my age), but one of the first things I learned
is that you have to at least consider the argument of these homophobes.
That's *not* to say that I support them - far from it. But I have
learned, through personal experience, that if you are able to see the
other side of the argument, rather than just pushing your own wheelbarrow,
that you get far further. That's because you are able to "customise" your
argument so that the other person has at least a chance of understanding
where you are coming from. It also means that you at least have a chance
to understand where they are coming from - which can be extremely useful
sometimes. I jsut want you to understand that.
Chief Thracian wrote:
> Then get on the stick, and do just that!
Well, it just so happens that I am starting to do exactly that as we
speak! Please refer to the site http://www.geocities.com/johnsunol1. I
have emailed someone to ask if they are interested in being a part of
making a larger website to provide an alternative viewpoint to this moron
(and also apply it to all homophobic morons in general). It looks like
he's interested - he's emailed me back saying that he might even register
a domain name for it!
Tim.
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Chief Thracian
<dogw...@worfie.net> wrote:
>Well, it's just interesting that many of the messages I have seen from you
>coming into my inbox seem very quick to judge others.
I find that a lot of gay people need to break out of their conformist
viewpoints. I am one who has...and by injecting my counter arguments
and unique opinions, I challenge others. This may seem a quick
judgment by some, but it's not. However, there are plenty of
ultra-conservative types in gay groups, and these folks I do make a
point of confronting.
>it seems to me, though, that you need to
>be living in an idealistic world for some of your ideas to work
>effectively.
You have never lived in an ideal world...thus you can't really know if
my ideas there would be most effective. I live in the real world, and
I am not the first to practice idealistic ventures. And, like so many
others who have, I have achieved some excellent results...and my time
has just arrived.
>Chief Thracian wrote:
>
>> For starters: a lovely young homeless man of 23 has stolen my heart,
>> and we now share the same home, the same life.
>
>I'm worried. I don't fully know the situation - I only know what you have
>said to me in that statement. I'm just warning you from extensive
>personal experience that introducing people in that situation into my life
>so closely has got me into trouble in the past. That may just be my
>misfortune though.
It is your misfortune, as well as mine. However, you need to realize
that when it is your time to stop experiencing negative
realtionships...then good relationships happen. I have been involved
with street people for many, many years now...some of whom were
lovers, many of whom were/are friends. The worst I've ever had, was
petty theft, hyperactivity, and just plain orneriness.
The man that I have just adopted, "Lucky", is a good kid. He only
smokes pot and ciggies, and doesn't touch a drop of hard drugs or
alcohol. He is very stable in many ways, and is quite like my good
pot-smoking friends back in the late 60's/early 70's: gregarious,
enjoys friends, lives a roguish romantic life, etc. We have had our
arguments, and nothing ever gets out of hand. Each time, we grow
closer, and enjoy each other's company even more. He is accompanying
on my rounds to visit my other houselss friends, and inspiring them to
have better attitudes about themselves and the world.
Actually, I am rather astounded at what a magnificent dude he
is...like a dream come true! I'd say I'm a very, very lucky man. I've
never had such a fine friend and lover since my Randolph...and he's
missing...disappeared from me in 1992. I have no way of finding out
what happened to him. Anyways, he is a Nam Vet and gay activist, and
incredibly romantic, devoted, handsome, and brave. A piece of heaven,
indeed!
You should learn more about me and Randolph, at this site I've
dedicated to him:
The Somalian Affair
http://www.fortunecity.com/village/weaver/76/
It has been my calling to be a street counselor since 1973...as
spiritual advisor, witness and friend. So I have a long history of
friendships and lovers not part of our society's mainstream. Lucky is
but the latest...yet among the rarest best. He even does macrame...so
much about him is like the flower children of another era. I wonder
how he got this way; hippie parents? I don't know yet, but I look
forward to when he talks more about this aspect of his life. But more
urgent things need to be discussed, in order to work out the emotional
knots of abuse by parents and foster homes. I feel very honored to
have this beautiful boy in my arms, and help him grow into a man.
We are almost at the point where he can let go and give me his
absolute trust. Then, and only then, can I give him the tools to heal
himself. This complete trust required, is a difficult step, but the
only way to target the knots of pain, and unravel them. Everything I
tell him to do, he must do. Everything I tell him to do is all
directed towards his own well-being, and none to any of my own
desires. I am playing the slave/master game as a creative way to heal
him from painful past experiences. I will be the first in his life to
everything right by him, in every way. He will then know he never fear
trusting me in any matter.
Once accomplished, we will reverse the roles, and I must put my
complete trust in him. It will be fun to see where he takes this!
I am presently writing a story, "The Day I Got Lucky"...if I can keep
up with the pace of this great reality.
>Chief Thracian wrote:
>> Then get on the stick, and do just that!
>Well, it just so happens that I am starting to do exactly that as we
>speak! Please refer to the site http://www.geocities.com/johnsunol1.
That site doesn't load when I try it. Yahoo-GeoCities says: "We're
sorry, but this page is currently unavailable for viewing".
>I have emailed someone to ask if they are interested in being a part of
>making a larger website to provide an alternative viewpoint to this moron
>(and also apply it to all homophobic morons in general). It looks like
>he's interested - he's emailed me back saying that he might even register
>a domain name for it!
Congratulations, John. I look forward to visiting your site, once I
can get on it. Keep up the great work.
---
"Give us marriage or give us death:
Slay the beast of homophobia!"
-Zeke Krahlin, Chief Thracian
http://surf.to/gaybible
Tim Kerslake
> It is your misfortune, as well as mine. However, you need to realize
> that when it is your time to stop experiencing negative
> realtionships...then good relationships happen. I have been involved
> with street people for many, many years now...some of whom were
> lovers, many of whom were/are friends. The worst I've ever had, was
> petty theft, hyperactivity, and just plain orneriness.
Maybe I should have said this before. These "relationships" generally
involved violence, theft, harassment, etc. towards me. This did not
happen once, twice, or even three times ... I think I lost count at about
7 or 8 (at least). It's no wonder, then, that my natural self-defence
mechanisms kick in when I am put in that situation again.
I'm not saying that there *aren't* good homeless people out there ... but
due to what has unfortunately happened in my past, then I have learned to
be extremely careful.
Chief Thracian wrote:
> >Well, it just so happens that I am starting to do exactly that as we
> >speak! Please refer to the site http://www.geocities.com/johnsunol1.
>
> That site doesn't load when I try it. Yahoo-GeoCities says: "We're
> sorry, but this page is currently unavailable for viewing".
I only discovered *after* I made the posting that the page has been
removed by GeoCities. It was there on Friday, I swear. I can only assume
it was removed for homophobic attitudes.
Tim.
Chief Thracian
<dogw...@worfie.net> wrote:
>Maybe I should have said this before. These "relationships" generally
>involved violence, theft, harassment, etc. towards me.
I have not experienced any of those things, except rarely. It was your
path to experience constant bad outcomes; but this in no way should be
projected onto the Big Screen Of Things. We each experience whatever
situations that will progress our soul...and often, we mistake our own
good fortunes or misfortunes as typical of everyone's experience.
>It's no wonder, then, that my natural self-defence
>mechanisms kick in when I am put in that situation again.
I saw a quotation a few days ago, that stuck in my mind (though I
can't recall the author):
"Love as if you've never been hurt before."
And that, I believe, is the challenge to you. Broadcasting such a
negative scenario as typical, inevitable, and the majority experience,
only serves to inculcate ugly prejudices even further. If you live in
San Francisco, I would gladly introduce you to any one of various
decent houseless guys, whose friendship you'd enjoy.
>I'm not saying that there *aren't* good homeless people out there ...
Yes you are. You imply that there are *hardly any* or *very few*
decent homeless people. Saying it that way looks like you have an open
mind, when really you are spreading dark magic.
(Aside: Of course, many folks don't believe in black magic, because
they are either atheist, or hold a world view that does not permit
magic in their realm. However, anyone who performs intentionally
malicious acts is indeed a practitioner of the black arts. You can be
an atheist, but if you encourage a young person to take a hard drug,
you are acting out a very dark evil. When you vote against funding for
the homeless or other oppressed group, you are sealing the stamp of
evil on your soul.)
>due to what has unfortunately happened in my past, then I have learned to
>be extremely careful.
You may lack the skills in seeking out the decent ones. I have been at
this 24/7 since 1973! However, you can strike up friendships without
ever inviting them home, or even telling them where you live.
>I only discovered *after* I made the posting that the page has been
>removed by GeoCities. It was there on Friday, I swear. I can only assume
>it was removed for homophobic attitudes.
This is way too common. The very hosts that promise not to take down
your site, due to bigoted attacks...always cave in whenever some
'phobe accuses your gay site of pornography or violence. The host
folks never bother to look into the matter, but just shut you down. 1
point for the bigots, 0 for the gays.
If someone were attacking you if you ran an African-American site, or
a women's site, or children's site...the host most likely *will look
into the matter, and realize the complainer is actually harassing you.
But a gay site? Heaven forfend, no!
---
"Give us marriage or give us death:
Slay the beast of homophobia!"
-Zeke Krahlin, Chief Thracian
http://surf.to/gaybible
**********