bad cyberbullying decision
EDTECH Editor-Beil
A decision was handed down in a federal district court in California that is
going to present significant problems for schools in responding to
cyberbullying or sexting.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-youtube-schools13-2009dec13,0,6677934.story?page=1
For students, a right to be mean online?
With schools meting out discipline for what they see as cyber-bullying, some
courts, parents and free speech advocates are pushing back.
"To allow the school to cast this wide a net and suspend a student simply
because another student takes offense to their speech, without any evidence
that such speech caused a substantial disruption of the school's activities,
runs afoul" of the law, U.S. District Judge Stephen V. Wilson wrote in a
60-page opinion.
"The court cannot uphold school discipline of student speech simply because
young persons are unpredictable or immature, or because, in general, teenagers
are emotionally fragile and may often fight over hurtful comments," he wrote.
Here is the fact situation:
One morning in May 2008, an eighth-grader walked into Janice Hart's office at a
Beverly Hills school crying.
She was upset and humiliated and couldn't possibly go to class, the girl told
the counselor. The night before, a classmate had posted a video on YouTube with
a group of other eighth-graders bad-mouthing her, calling her "spoiled," a
"brat" and a "slut." Text and instant messages had been flying since. Half the
class must have seen it by now, she told Hart.
This is a horrendous decision. One that I hope and expect will be overturned on
appeal. But in the meantime, I am pretty sure the school insurance companies
and school attorneys will be advising principals not to suspend students for
off-campus cyberbullying. I am not a fan of suspension to resolve bullying
situations, but many administrators are just going to take the perspective that
there is nothing they can do.
I still think there are things they can do - and am working on an analysis of
the case to set this forth. But it is a very bad decision.
Nancy
--
Nancy Willard, M.S., J.D.
Center for Safe and Responsible Internet Use
http://csriu.org
http://cyberbully.org
http://cyber-safe-kids.com
http://csriu.wordpress.com
nwil...@csriu.org
Cyberbullying and Cyberthreats: Responding to the Challenge of Online Social
Aggression, Threats, and Distress (Research Press) Cyber-Safe Kids, Cyber-Savvy
Teens: Helping Young People Learn to Use the Internet Safely and Responsibly
(Jossey-Bass)
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SIGNOFF EDTECH
EDTECH Editor-Beil
I don't really have a problem with the decision. Student action off
campus, outside of school related functions, is not of any concern for
the school administration. At what point did the school take on the
raising of children? The most that should have been done is reporting of
the incident to the parents of all the children involved and let them
handle it.
Edmund (Ted) Seidel M.S.
Senior Information Specialist
Department of Petroleum Engineering
ted.s...@pe.tamu.edu
http://www.pe.tamu.edu/DL_Program/
EDTECH Editor-Beil
And then the other side of the spectrum that hasn't yet been decided in
court:
Parents sue school for role in sexting tragedy:
http://www.eschoolnews.com/news/top-news/?i=62173
Excerpt:
Now, her parents are saying the school's actions weren't enough, and if the
school had taken more aggressive action against the bullying, Jessica would
still be alive today.
In their lawsuit, Cynthia and Albert Logan say the other students'
"degrading sexual insults" caused their 18-year-old daughter severe
emotional distress, which led her to kill herself in July 2008, a month
after graduating from high school.
They are also suing Logan's school, Sycamore High, for negligence. They say
the school violated their daughter's constitutional rights by failing to
follow policies on harassment.
Sue Ellingson
Sue.el...@se-warren.k12.ia.us
Technology Aide
(641) 466-3331 ext 224
EDTECH Editor-Jones
Re. Ted's comment:
>>At what point did the school take on the raising of children?
I must be old-fashioned, but during my 43 years of teaching, where my
students were children and adults of all ages, I always, always considered
myself responsible for helping the students grow as human beings,
regardless of what subject matter I was otherwise responsible for helping
them learn.
Bernie :)
--
Bernard John Poole, MSIS, PGCE
Associate Professor Emeritus
University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown, Johnstown, PA 15904, USA
(724) 238-3646
http://www.pitt.edu/~poole
EDTECH Editor-Jones
I would have the same thought here...not the problem of the administration.
What could the administration do? Where the kids using school cell phones? The
phones are personal property and what is entered into the phones are a personal
decision. The court should throw the case out. There may be a case against the
other kids but, again, that is out of the school administration purview.
Edmund (Ted) Seidel M.S.
Senior Information Specialist
Department of Petroleum Engineering
ted.s...@pe.tamu.edu
http://www.pe.tamu.edu/DL_Program/
> From: Sue Ellingson <sue.el...@se-warren.k12.ia.us>
>
> And then the other side of the spectrum that hasn't yet been decided in
> court:
>
> Parents sue school for role in sexting tragedy:
> http://www.eschoolnews.com/news/top-news/?i=62173
>
> Excerpt:
> Now, her parents are saying the school's actions weren't enough, and if
> the
> school had taken more aggressive action against the bullying, Jessica
> would
> still be alive today.
>
> In their lawsuit, Cynthia and Albert Logan say the other students'
> "degrading sexual insults" caused their 18-year-old daughter severe
> emotional distress, which led her to kill herself in July 2008, a month
> after graduating from high school.
>
> They are also suing Logan's school, Sycamore High, for negligence. They
> say
> the school violated their daughter's constitutional rights by failing to
> follow policies on harassment.
>
> Sue Ellingson
> Sue.el...@se-warren.k12.ia.us
> Technology Aide
> (641) 466-3331 ext 224
>
---
EDTECH Editor-Jones
> Student action off campus, outside of school related functions, is not of
> any concern for the school administration. At what point did the school
> take on the raising of children?
This is the trend and like most gov't intrusions into people's lives,
it's done in small steps over time to make resistance tougher; it's an
erosion process and not an abrupt change. Add to that the fact that
it's "for the children" and more people will accept the conditioning that
the schools have responsibility for children outside of school.
Regards,
.
Randy
--
"I hope we shall take warning from the example of England and crush in its
birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to
challenge our Government to trial and bid defiance to the laws of our
country." -- Thomas Jefferson
EDTECH Editor-Jones
I too have taught values to every student I have ever had, but should feeling
responsible for teaching values equate with being held responsible legally for
teaching those values? Do we have the right and/or obligation to act on
actions taken out side of school that go contrary to those values? If so, what
values and to what extent can we act or be held responsible? It's an
interesting can of worms.
In collective bargaining, if one establishes a practice, it can be considered
part of the job unless there is specific contract language or law to the
contrary. Therefore, if we teach values and neither our contracts nor the law
say anything to the contrary, our past practice establishes a contractual
agreement.
Then we have in parentis locus which suggests that it is our responsibility.
The law has defined this to some extent including Tinker vs Des Moines. Since
it says that we can take action against students for off campus behavior that
substantially disrupts school, it is logical to assume that we should be
teaching the values that relate to the conduct we are acting upon.
That leads us to the responsibility question. If we are teaching values IN
school, does that mean we have the responsibility of policing those values OUT
of school? The Tinker decisions doesn't suggest we have that responsibility.
On the contrary, it limits the actions that can be taken by tying action to
substantial disruption of the school.
In this particular case, is it a question of whether the judge make a good or
bad decision, or is it a case of the school not doing its homework and
establishing substantial disruption? On the surface, many decisions seem wrong
for the wrong reasons, but when you look deeper, you see something else.
During our first teachers' srtike in NJ, the board had us cited for contempt
and then followed up on the contempt proceedings even after we settled the
strike. There was no question about it. We were in contempt. The judge
ordered us back and we didn't go. Over 400 teachers were scheduled to appear
in court on two successive days. I was in the second group, but didn't have to
attend, because the first group was found not guilty on the first day. It
seemed that the attorney for the board failed to introduce any evidence that we
were not in school on the two days in question.
Do we know all we need to know about this case? I think not.
Art
> From: Bernard John Poole <po...@pitt.edu>
>
> Re. Ted's comment:
>
>>> At what point did the school take on the raising of children?
>
> I must be old-fashioned, but during my 43 years of teaching, where my
> students were children and adults of all ages, I always, always considered
> myself responsible for helping the students grow as human beings,
> regardless of what subject matter I was otherwise responsible for helping
> them learn.
>
> Bernie :)
>
> --
> Bernard John Poole, MSIS, PGCE
> Associate Professor Emeritus
> University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown, Johnstown, PA 15904, USA
> (724) 238-3646
> http://www.pitt.edu/~poole
Art Wolinsky
OEO 3DWriting.com
Technology Director - Online Internet Institute
Educational Technology Director - WiredSafety.org
awol...@3dwriting.com
(609) 618-4433
I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes.
I will surely learn a great deal today.
EDTECH Editor-Jones
Re. this from Ted Seidel:
> What could the administration do? Were the kids using school cell phones?
> The phones are personal property...
I'm British by birth, but American by choice. What I love about America
(i.e. USA) is the degree of freedom it "legislates" for its citizens. I
don't know any country in the world that does this as fair-handedly as the
United States of America.
Which is why I agree with Ted.
If it comes down to legal rights, America has, in the Constitution and in
its accompanying legal system, spelled it out well enough for now: The
School District cannot do much about what the students do when they are
not at school.
But while the students are at school, administrators, staff, and teachers
have a responsibility to educate and educate and educate while they have
the children under their care. I know hundreds, if not thousands, of
teachers and administrators who, over the past 43 years of my teaching
career, did this and did it well.
The parents send their children to school. If they didn't want to, they
would keep them home and home-school them. So, on the one side of the
coin, in sending the children to the school, parents necessarily accept
that their children will be exposed to influences and opportunities for
learning with which they may disagree. On the other side of the coin,
parents also accept that administration will place limits on what the
students may do and say while they are at school.
In the best schools, students mind their p's and q's while feeling free to
be who they are.
What students do when they are NOT at school is the responsibility of the
parents--and of the wider community in which the children live.
I agree with Ted on that account.
Bernie :)
--
Bernard John Poole, MSIS, PGCE
Associate Professor Emeritus
University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown, Johnstown, PA 15904, USA
(724) 238-3646
http://www.pitt.edu/~poole
---
EDTECH Editor-Jones
I believe a teacher is responsible for teaching the subject and should have
control over the classroom. This, of course, includes using computers in the
classroom to create course material. However, morality and decency are outside
of the responsibility of the teacher. These concepts should be passed along by
the parents. Do I disagree with how some parents raise their children? Sure.
But let's look at an example. Let's say you have a Muslim student who has been
taught by the parents that females are second class citizens and are not worthy
of speaking unless spoken to. Would you intervene to try to teach the child
otherwise or would you be to frightened of the fallout? I don't agree with
that view and I don't agree with the views of some teachers. I surely wouldn't
want either passing their values on to my children. Let's concentrate on
teaching our kids reading, writing, math, etc. We are not exactly 100%
successful in that area.
I believe Randy is right this is yet another intrusion by government.
Edmund (Ted) Seidel
Sent from my iPhone
> From: Bernard John Poole <po...@pitt.edu>
>
> Re. Ted's comment:
>
>>> At what point did the school take on the raising of children?
>
> I must be old-fashioned, but during my 43 years of teaching, where my
> students were children and adults of all ages, I always, always considered
> myself responsible for helping the students grow as human beings,
> regardless of what subject matter I was otherwise responsible for helping
> them learn.
>
EDTECH Editor-Jones
> ...I always, always considered myself responsible for helping the
> students grow as human beings, regardless of what subject matter
> I was otherwise responsible for helping them learn.
I agree completely, and think that schools today focus too much on pure
academics while in school and gloss over character issues. But the issue
here is more focused on the power of the school/state to interfere with
parenting outside of the school's property and outside of school hours. To
me, that is a very different issue.
Regards,
.
Randy
--
Fast fact: More than 22 percent of American children live in poverty. Five
European countries have child poverty rates lower than 5%, 11 European
countries lower than 11%; Sweden's child poverty rate is less than 3%.
Source: UNICEF <http://www.eldis.org/static/DOC7799.htm>
EDTECH Editor-Beil
> <br>From: "Seidel, Ted" <ted.s...@pe.tamu.edu>
> <br>
> <br>I don't really have a problem with the decision. Student action off
> <br>campus, outside of school related functions, is not of any concern for
> <br>the school administration. At what point did the school take on the
> <br>raising of children? The most that should have been done is reporting of
> <br>the incident to the parents of all the children involved and let them
> <br>handle it.
When I first started talking with schools about cyberbullying, this is the
perspective many administrators took. I do not find that perspective anymore.
What they have discovered is that there really is no separation. If they do not
deal with the cyberbullying when reported, it is very likely to cause more and
more problems - including students refusing to come to school or school
viuolence.
Nancy
--
Nancy Willard, M.S., J.D.
Center for Safe and Responsible Internet Use
http://csriu.org
http://cyberbully.org
http://cyber-safe-kids.com
http://csriu.wordpress.com
nwil...@csriu.org
Cyberbullying and Cyberthreats: Responding to the Challenge of Online Social
Aggression, Threats, and Distress (Research Press)
Cyber-Safe Kids, Cyber-Savvy Teens: Helping Young People Learn to Use the
Internet Safely and Responsibly (Jossey-Bass)
---
EDTECH Editor-Beil
This is one to two youth suicide cases associated with sexting. In both cases,
it appears that the schools took a hands-off position with respect to the
sexual harassment that resulted from the student's mistake. Schools have a
significant potential of liability here. Sexual harassment that has created a
hostile environment can lead to liability.
I am in the process of revising my cyberbullying materials to address sexting -
and to provide a recommended protocol that includes warding against the
subsequent sexual harassment that often occurs when these images "go viral."
> <br>From: Sue Ellingson <sue.el...@se-warren.k12.ia.us>
> <br>
> <br>And then the other side of the spectrum that hasn't yet been decided in
> <br>court:
> <br>
> <br>Parents sue school for role in sexting tragedy:
> <br>http://www.eschoolnews.com/news/top-news/?i=62173
EDTECH Editor-Jones
How is it that we have such poor results in academic matters if schools are
focused on material? How can we spend so much on education only gaining poor
results?
Edmund (Ted) Seidel
Sent from my iPhone
> From: Randy Edwards <redw...@golgotha.net>
>
>> ...I always, always considered myself responsible for helping the
>> students grow as human beings, regardless of what subject matter
>> I was otherwise responsible for helping them learn.
>
> I agree completely, and think that schools today focus too much on pure
> academics while in school and gloss over character issues. But the issue
> here is more focused on the power of the school/state to interfere with
> parenting outside of the school's property and outside of school hours. To
> me, that is a very different issue.
>
> Regards,
> .
> Randy
>
>
> --
> Fast fact: More than 22 percent of American children live in poverty. Five
> European countries have child poverty rates lower than 5%, 11 European
> countries lower than 11%; Sweden's child poverty rate is less than 3%.
> Source: UNICEF <http://www.eldis.org/static/DOC7799.htm>
>
---
EDTECH Editor-Jones
Good point Art. If you accept the responsibility then you should be held
personally responsible. So, should teachers get malpractice insurance? What
would constitute a case? If you pass along your belief on abortion and parents
believe otherwise can they sue you personally? I believe this is a values
question.
Disclaimer: I am not trying to harass Art. I have no idea what Art's position
is on abortion and whether he has passed that view on to students. It is none
of my business as my position is none of his, if Art is indeed a male. If not,
I apologize. I am not trying to imply that any female named Art is in any way
masculine.
Edmund (Ted) Seidel
Sent from my iPhone
> From: Art Wolinsky <awol...@3dwriting.com>
>> From: Bernard John Poole <po...@pitt.edu>
>> Re. Ted's comment:
>>>> At what point did the school take on the raising of children?
>> I must be old-fashioned, but during my 43 years of teaching, where my
>> students were children and adults of all ages, I always, always considered
>> myself responsible for helping the students grow as human beings,
>> regardless of what subject matter I was otherwise responsible for helping
>> them learn.
>> Bernie :)
>> --
>> Bernard John Poole, MSIS, PGCE
>> Associate Professor Emeritus
>> University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown, Johnstown, PA 15904, USA
>> (724) 238-3646
>> http://www.pitt.edu/~poole
>
> Art Wolinsky
> OEO 3DWriting.com
> Technology Director - Online Internet Institute
> Educational Technology Director - WiredSafety.org
> awol...@3dwriting.com
> (609) 618-4433
>
> I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes.
> I will surely learn a great deal today.
---
EDTECH Editor-Jones
That, Ted, is a very good question, though to some degree you have to look
at the big picture, I think. It's hard for the system as a whole to have
statistically high quality outcomes when there is such a diversity of
approach to education nationwide. In most other countries, the standards
are established and enforced nationwide. In America, an attempt has been
made to do the same (NCLB, etc.) with little success as yet.
However, the fact is that the American system of higher education, to
which all our students have access at some level or another, is the envy
of the world. The American high-school graduating student on average is
perhaps not as advanced (statistically) as those from many other
countries, but at least they have the opportunity to catch up in due
course, should they so desire. This is by no means as readily the case
elsewhere.
Bernie :)
> From: "Seidel, Ted" <ted.s...@pe.tamu.edu>
>
> How is it that we have such poor results in academic matters if schools
> are
> focused on material? How can we spend so much on education only gaining
> poor
> results?
>
> Edmund (Ted) Seidel
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> From: Randy Edwards <redw...@golgotha.net>
>>
>>> ...I always, always considered myself responsible for helping the
>>> students grow as human beings, regardless of what subject matter
>>> I was otherwise responsible for helping them learn.
>>
>> I agree completely, and think that schools today focus too much on pure
>> academics while in school and gloss over character issues. But the issue
>> here is more focused on the power of the school/state to interfere with
>> parenting outside of the school's property and outside of school hours.
>> To
>> me, that is a very different issue.
>>
>> Regards,
>> .
>> Randy
>>
>>
>> --
>> Fast fact: More than 22 percent of American children live in poverty.
>> Five
>> European countries have child poverty rates lower than 5%, 11 European
>> countries lower than 11%; Sweden's child poverty rate is less than 3%.
>> Source: UNICEF <http://www.eldis.org/static/DOC7799.htm>
--
Bernard John Poole, MSIS, PGCE
Associate Professor Emeritus
University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown, Johnstown, PA 15904, USA
(724) 238-3646
http://www.pitt.edu/~poole
---
EDTECH Editor-Beil
I believe this is were we have the problem. That any one would hold the school
responsible is ridiculous. Another scenario: I am released from an intersection
by a green light and get halfway through the intersection when someone runs the
red at 55 mph and strikes my vehicle. May I then sue the city and police for
not foreseeing the situation and stopping the erroneous behavior? After all
this is vehicular harassment.
Our society has shunned the "R" word...responsibility. Being responsible for
one's own action and facing the consequences does not qualify for victim
status.
Edmund (Ted) Seidel
Sent from my iPhone
> X-From: Nancy Willard <nwil...@csriu.org>
>
> This is one to two youth suicide cases associated with sexting. In both
> cases, it appears that the schools took a hands-off position with respect to
> the sexual harassment that resulted from the student's mistake. Schools have
> a significant potential of liability here. Sexual harassment that has created
> a hostile environment can lead to liability.
>
> I am in the process of revising my cyberbullying materials to address sexting
> - and to provide a recommended protocol that includes warding against the
> subsequent sexual harassment that often occurs when these images "go viral."
---
EDTECH Editor-Jones
Ted, your comments were much more entertaining than harassing. For the most
part, I was simply playing devil's advocate and throwing out thoughts.
Actually, one of the points I was trying to make is that we are not responsible
for policing what students do out of school, but as Tinker suggests, when that
action spills over and disrupts that school process, we clearly have a "right"
to act. Whether we have a responsibility to act is not quite as clear.
Oh, BTW - My last DNA test showed one X and one Y chromosome, but I spelled Y
wrong on the test. ;-)
Art
> From: "Seidel, Ted" <ted.s...@pe.tamu.edu>
>
> Good point Art. If you accept the responsibility then you should be held
> personally responsible. So, should teachers get malpractice insurance? What
> would constitute a case? If you pass along your belief on abortion and
> parents believe otherwise can they sue you personally? I believe this is a
> values question.
>
> Disclaimer: I am not trying to harass Art. I have no idea what Art's
> position is on abortion and whether he has passed that view on to students.
> It is none of my business as my position is none of his, if Art is indeed a
> male. If not, I apologize. I am not trying to imply that any female named Art
> is in any way masculine.
>
> Edmund (Ted) Seidel
> Sent from my iPhone
>
Art Wolinsky
OEO 3DWriting.com
Technology Director - Online Internet Institute
Educational Technology Director - WiredSafety.org
awol...@3dwriting.com
(609) 618-4433
I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes.
I will surely learn a great deal today.
---
EDTECH Editor-Jones
I have to agree with Bernie. A good teacher can not only teach but provide
them a place where they feel safe and confident. Students gravitate to
those teachers they can trust and know they would protect them from the
ills of their bully peers. Unfortunately, many parents aren't playing the
vital role of raising their kids to be morally responsible. Our job
isn’t just about teaching. It is about nurturing, caring, etc. This is
why we will never be replaced by a robot. If the students don’t feel
safe and comfortable with the teacher, learning is less likely going to
occur.
Chris Clementi
Middle School Computer Teacher
Google Certified Teacher
http://www.kidsnetsoft.com/html/home2.html
twitter: kidsnetsoft
> From: "Seidel, Ted" <ted.s...@pe.tamu.edu>
>
> I believe a teacher is responsible for teaching the subject and should have control over the classroom. This, of course, includes using computers in the classroom to create course material. However, morality and decency are outside of the responsibility of the teacher. These concepts should be passed along by the parents. Do I disagree with how some parents raise their children? Sure. But let's look at an example. Let's say you have a Muslim student who has been taught by the parents that females are second class citizens and are not worthy of speaking unless spoken to. Would you intervene to try to teach the child otherwise or would you be to frightened of the fallout? I don't agree with that view and I don't agree with the views of some teachers. I surely wouldn't want either passing their values on to my children. Let's concentrate on teaching our kids reading, writing, math, etc. We are not exactly 100% successful in that area.
>
> I believe Randy is right this is yet another intrusion by government.
>
> Edmund (Ted) Seidel
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> From: Bernard John Poole <po...@pitt.edu>
>>
>> Re. Ted's comment:
>>
>>>> At what point did the school take on the raising of children?
>>
>> I must be old-fashioned, but during my 43 years of teaching, where my
>> students were children and adults of all ages, I always, always considered
>> myself responsible for helping the students grow as human beings,
>> regardless of what subject matter I was otherwise responsible for helping
>> them learn.
>>
>> Bernie :)
>>
>> -- Bernard John Poole, MSIS, PGCE
>> Associate Professor Emeritus
>> University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown, Johnstown, PA 15904, USA
>> (724) 238-3646
>> http://www.pitt.edu/~poole
---
EDTECH Editor-Beil
Ted:
That analogy would be more applicable if you had added that the person who
ran the red light already had a history of running red lights, but no one
had acted to get him off the road.
Susie
X-From: "Seidel, Ted" <ted.s...@pe.tamu.edu>
I believe this is were we have the problem. That any one would hold the school
responsible is ridiculous. Another scenario: I am released from an intersection
by a green light and get halfway through the intersection when someone runs the
red at 55 mph and strikes my vehicle. May I then sue the city and police for
not foreseeing the situation and stopping the erroneous behavior? After all
this is vehicular harassment.
Our society has shunned the "R" word...responsibility. Being responsible for
one's own action and facing the consequences does not qualify for victim
status.
---
EDTECH Editor-Beil
I seem to be on a running streak of opposition with Ted. In both this and
another sexting/suicide case, it does appear that the actions of the schools
exacerbated the situation, causing further harm to the teen who did indeed make
a mistake. Yes, both of the teens who created the images made a mistake. I am
big on personal responsibility.
In one situation this was a "truth or dare" kind of a situation where she was
coerced to create the image by peers. She was suspended. I do not think this
was appropriate.
The other situation also appeared to involve peer pressure - but not coercion.
Then she sent the image to her boyfriend and he showed it around and it went
viral. The school resource officer convinced her to appear on a TV show to
discuss the issue - disguised, but everyone at her school knew who it was.
In both situations, the teen who created the image was the recipient of
significant sexual harassment - on campus and online. Especially on campus,
this is CLEARLY the responsibility of school officials. In both of these cases,
despite frequent pleas to school officials to step in to stop the sexual
harassment, the schools did nothing.
Here is an excellent blog on this:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/gender-and-schooling/200912/sexting-and-suicide
Bottom line is that regardless of the cause - even the student's own stupid
actions - schools have a responsibility to stop the sexual harassment,
especially on campus.
A colleague of mine is researching the sexting issue and is finding out that
much of this is being done in "Truth or Dare" "Show me yours and I'll show you
mine" "If you loved me, you would" kind of situations. So we really do need to
address how to respond to peer influence to do something that will come back on
you.
Nancy
--
Nancy Willard, M.S., J.D.
Center for Safe and Responsible Internet Use
http://csriu.org
http://cyberbully.org
http://cyber-safe-kids.com
http://csriu.wordpress.com
nwil...@csriu.org
Cyberbullying and Cyberthreats: Responding to the Challenge of Online Social
Aggression, Threats, and Distress (Research Press)
Cyber-Safe Kids, Cyber-Savvy Teens: Helping Young People Learn to Use the
Internet Safely and Responsibly (Jossey-Bass)
---
EDTECH Editor-Beil
There is not any implied warranty of safety when you are driving an auto
through an intersection. The light is there to regulate traffic; everything
else depends on the mutual willingness of licensed drivers to obey the rules,
except on those rare occasions when a cop is present. As we've all been told
countless times, driving is a privilege, not a right. It is also not a required
activity. On the other hand, there most certainly IS an implied warranty of
safety when a minor child attends school, which that minor is required to do in
every state.
To carry your contention to an rhetorical extreme, (that out-of-school behavior
is none of the school's business), is it not the school's business if an adult
teacher is in a sexual relationship with a student, even if all instances of
the behavior occurs out of school? I'm willing to bet that any school board
will make it their business, as will society at large, and that that school
board will have the backing of the courts.
Sorry, Ted, but a child's interrelationship with the school does not end with
the closing bell each day. K12 students are minors. The students at your school
(TAMU) are nearly all over the age of 18. Ours are nearly all under that age.
I agree somewhat with your statement about responsibility; however, the
assumption of responsibility in adolescents is a gradual, not sudden process.
If you have a 15 year-old child and a five year-old child, surely you have
different expectations of responsible behavior for each?
As Nancy has stated, the line between school and out-of-school is fuzzy. You
seem to be drawing a sharp black line where none can realistically exist.
I apologize to all if I have seemed too pedantic.
Guy Durrant
Daggett SD
EDTECH Editor-Jones
Is not the analogy really to a bar? If you leave a bar drunk, and get into a
car, the bar owner can be held liable. If the bar owner can be shown to have
been negligent (e.g., by allowing a clearly intoxicated patron to get into a
car), the owner is very likely to get sued if the patron then gets into an
accident; and will very likely lose the suit.
> From: Susie Highley <shig...@warren.k12.in.us>
>
> Ted:
>
> That analogy would be more applicable if you had added that the person who
> ran the red light already had a history of running red lights, but no one had
> acted to get him off the road.
>
>
> X-From: "Seidel, Ted" <ted.s...@pe.tamu.edu>
>
> I believe this is were we have the problem. That any one would hold the
> school
> responsible is ridiculous. Another scenario: I am released from an
> intersection
> by a green light and get halfway through the intersection when someone runs
> the
> red at 55 mph and strikes my vehicle. May I then sue the city and police for
> not foreseeing the situation and stopping the erroneous behavior? After all
> this is vehicular harassment.
--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra