My son and the future...
Colin Tiernan
A very warm welcome from my first post!
I have been thinking about this for some time now and have no one better I
believe than yourselves to discuss this with. I am the father of a 7 month
old boy with DS. He is our first child and it took us 10 years from marriage
before we went for it. You see my wife has had ME since we were married and
only in these past 2 years has the condition eased. So now she is 39, I'm 34
and we have a decision to make. Should we have another baby?
My heart says yes but if the outcome was bad it would really kill her. She
is not as strong as me and has passing moods between sadness and acceptance.
We don't have the same fulfillment as alot of the posts here show, but we
want to enjoy life and live it to the full.
So is another baby worth the risk. We've just come from the Geneticist who
says the DS was not heriditory. With the age and all we have a 1 in 75
chance of a 'normal' baby.
Do you think we would miss out if we didn't try for another sibling to keep
our current company. I know it would really help if everything worked out.
If I could predict that, then we'd definitely go for it.
I promised my wife I would give her happiness forever more, she is a
motherly person and loves him to bits, I know though that if I scratch the
surface a little she breaks down, and that really tears me apart. It's
something she has to learn to change, recondition her life. I've found
Anthony Robbins a great help to change my focus and make me alter the path I
was on. I can't say it's easy but my son has made me a much better person. I
realise the joy of life and making 'it' whatever that is for you happen.
So if anyone out there could help me with making this decision of having
another child, maybe their experiences of what was best for them in the
position we are in with a first born DS and parents who may be called high
risk in having another baby.
This forum helped me at the start when my baby was born. We didn't know
anything was wrong until he was 2 days old. I reached out for help and found
all this optimism here.
Maybe your kindness could be reciprocated again. I need peoples honest
opinion on what we should do. I WILL use this as a guide in making my
decsion.
Thanks again for giving me the peace when I need it. Looking forward to
hearing from you all,
Colin.
_________________________________________________________________
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Alberto Monteiro
>
> So now she is 39, I'm 34
> and we have a decision to make. Should we have another baby?
>
> chance of a 'normal' baby.
>
despite the [relatively high] risk of another baby with
DS.
OTOH, if you can wait a few years, notice how fast the
medical techniques [cloning, etc] are advancing. Maybe
you can store some eggs now, so that when the time comes
for a new baby you may chose a 23-chromossomed egg and
a 23-chromossomed sperm.
Gattaca [*] is closer than we wish, and when Gattaca becomes
reality, we will *all* be genetically-challenged :-)
Alberto Monteiro, father of Ana Silvia (11, DS), Natalia
(8, NDA) and Bernardo (2, NDA)
[*] for those who don愒 know the reference: it愀 a movie
about a future where most children are genetically selected
before birth, creating a caste of genetically perfect
people. Those that are made in a natural way suffer
discrimination.
Wiseman, Shelly
3-1/2 mo. Old, so I certainly haven't been through a whole lot yet. But, my
oldest son has ADHD/OCD and I'm pretty sure anything would be a breeze
compared to that. If the thought of having another child with DS is that
big of a determining factor, I don't believe I'd consider having anymore
children. The child could be born with an affliction much worse than DS and
there aren't tests to predict those type of things. I'm not saying you're
not justified in your worries by any means, though. But, what about
adopting?
Shelly, Mom to Drake (3-1/2 mo.)
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Tiernan [SMTP:colint...@HOTMAIL.COM]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:07 AM
To: DOWN...@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU
Subject: My son and the future...
Hello everyone,
A very warm welcome from my first post!
I have been thinking about this for some time now and have no one
better I
believe than yourselves to discuss this with. I am the father of a 7
month
old boy with DS. He is our first child and it took us 10 years from
marriage
before we went for it. You see my wife has had ME since we were
married and
only in these past 2 years has the condition eased. So now she is
39, I'm 34
and we have a decision to make. Should we have another baby?
My heart says yes but if the outcome was bad it would really kill
her. She
is not as strong as me and has passing moods between sadness and
acceptance.
We don't have the same fulfillment as alot of the posts here show,
but we
want to enjoy life and live it to the full.
So is another baby worth the risk. We've just come from the
Geneticist who
says the DS was not heriditory. With the age and all we have a 1 in
75
chance of a 'normal' baby.
Do you think we would miss out if we didn't try for another sibling
Susan Thomas
miss out on an important life experience because of fear. But really only
you know how hard it could be. The odds are still greatly in your favor of
a child without trisomy 21, but a second child with DS is not unheard of.
Maybe you need to wait a few months and see how your wife is handling
things -- I really think she's probably going through the usual sadness and
adjustment, but again only you and she know for sure. Of course maternal
age is also a factor in conception, but a few months probably won't make a
huge amount of difference. Talking to a counselor might be a good idea.
There are always going to be periods of sadness and frustration for most of
us. But I'm not sure that isn't true with any child. I feel more sadness
about my "typical" 13-year-old's totally normal separation from his parents
than anything going on with my child with DS at the moment. (And there are
plenty of days when I wonder why I got into the parenting biz at all!) But
the bottom line from my perspective is, if having more than one child is
important to you and your wife, then don't let fear and "what-ifs" hold you
back. There are few areas where you can totally avoid risk, if any.
Susan Thomas
mom to Sam (6, DS) and Josh (13)
michelle pollard
My heart goes out to you. I'm in the same position. I'm 40 years old and my only
son Manuel (now 11 months old) has DS. I would love to have another child and I
know it would be good for Manuel. Unfortunately I don't think anyone will be
able to help you with this decision. It's between your wife, yourself and if
you're a believer, your God.
To me the decision to have a child is difficult because if you're like me, you
have to take what comes. My doctor told me that I shouldn't have another child
unless I was prepared to do an amniocentesis (my son has translocation DS which
may have a hereditary component) and make a decision to abort if there's a
problem. I personally can't get beyond that. You and your wife have a similar
option. If you can't bear the thought of having another child with DS, then
you'll need to do the amnio (or whatever test your doctor recommends) and be
prepared to terminate your wife's pregnancy depending on the results. That's the
hard, cold truth as I see it. There are no guarantees in life. Then again, there
are so many people whose firstborn has DS and their younger children are not
diagnosed with anything. I'm sure some of those people will respond to your
query.
There is another option that you could consider and that's adoption. I don't
know how you feel about that but it's something my husband has suggested to me.
Now that I've empathized and given you no real help, maybe someone like Dr. Len
will be able to give you some scientific answers.
All the best,
Michele
Brett
My name is Brett and I have 4 kids. The oldest is a girl named Cristen and
she is 11 years old and has trisomy 21. I got married in 1985 at the age
of 22. My wife was 27 when we were married. I was ready to get on with it
and have some kids. My wife was somewhat fearful of parenthood and so we
did not get started right away. When we finally did, we had a couple of
very early term miscarriages. Eventually Cristen was born when I was 27
and my wife 32. You can read my recollections of that time on Cristen's
web site:
http://users.erols.com/bames/aboutCristen.html
In summary, I was scared of the unknown and my abilities. I was also
fearful of how my wife would handle it. When we talked about it, she told
me that she was scared of her abilitites and how I would handle it. So, we
got over that pretty quick and got on with it.
We had planned to have two children. We talked about having our second
child and got on with that. Our doctor (who does not do abortions) offered
my wife an amnio when she conceived. He felt that he had to in light of
all of the lawsuits flying about. Our position was that if the only
purpose for an amnio was to consider termination, then we did not need one.
Melissa was adamant with regard to risk and we were in one accord regarding
termination. We believe that life is a higher order and that we would be
blessed with our new child regardless. Unfortunately, this child - a boy -
died in utero in late second term. Pretty devastating, but we new that we
wanted another child, so when the time was right we conceived again. My
son, Dylan, was born when I was 29 and my wife 35. Dylan is not diagnosed
with anything, however, I can tell you that he is very precocious, all boy,
and extremely righteous. He cannot stand for ANY injustice, even things
that he perceives (often incorrectly) as injustice. In the current age, he
is much more demanding than Cristen or any of the other children. But, he
has meant a lot to Cristen, emotionally, academically, and functionally as
he is a very good brother and has always been very close to Cristen.
When Dylan was 18 months old or so, my wife tells me that she doesn't feel
like she is done having children. We decided to have another child. Ethan
was born when I was 32 and my wife 37. Frankie was born when I was 34 and
my wife 40. We are not planning on having any more children. We feel very
blessed by all of our children and I am very, very pleased that we decided
to have the 3 boys after Cristen. They are very close to her and I know
that they will be thoughout their adult lives.
Only you and your wife can decide how much you can handle and whether or
not you could handle another child with a disability or without, for that
matter. All of my kids have and do require a lot of attention that takes a
lot of time and effort. But, they are all worth it and I'm very glad that
I have them.
Regards,
Brett
Slater Family
in the end it has to be your decision based on your individual
circumstances. Since your baby is only seven months old, you would be better
waiting until he is a year or eighteen months old before you think of the
second child, But i undrestand your concern that your wife is 39, and the
biological time clock is ticking. The one in 75 seems quite a high figure
and would suggest you check Dr Lens pages to see the statistical tables. In
my case I had myt first child aged 27, my second child when is was 31 who
has Downs Syndrome and my third child at 37 who does not have Downs Syndrome
and at which time I was told i had a 1 in 400 chance that i would have a
child with Downs syndrome when aged 37. Karen has certainly benefitted from
having siblings and I think her siblings have enjoyed being part of a family
of three kids.
So, I would have a good think and maybe list all tthe advantages and
disadvantages of having a second child taking your own circumstances into
account,but meanwhile just enjoy your baby . We waited til Karen was six
before having our third child and we waited til Elizabeth was walking well
before we conceived Karen but I was younger than your wife is now. So thats
my tuppence worth ,im sure you have lots more advice and anecdotes from
others
Catherine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Tiernan" <colint...@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <DOWN...@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 4:07 PM
Subject: My son and the future...
Alicia
My experience is different from yours in that it is our 2nd child who has
DS. I remember that for a year or more after my son was born, I felt
desperately that I wanted to have another baby. The problem with that was
that before our son was born and diagnosed with DS, I had no intention of
having more than 2 children.
So, even though having a baby with DS changes many things in your life, I
think you might look at how you felt about how many children you were going
to have before you were blessed with your 1st son. Maybe that will help
you answer your question on whether or not to get pregnant again.
I really never figured out exactly why I felt so desperate to have another
baby after David was born. I suspect it resulted from the incredible
feeling of inadequacy that penetrated my life when I was told my son had
DS. Maybe my own inadequacy as a mother, as a woman, and my son's
inadequacy.
With time I understood David was perfect and all I needed and my mind
returned to it's original intention of having only 2 children. David is
and always will be our only son.
Peace,
Alicia, Mom of Clara and David
Alberto Monteiro
>
> Exactly one year and 10 days after our wedding, we had
> our first child.
>
What is "exact" about one year and 10 days?
*I* married exactly 4 years after I began "boyfriending"
with Silvana, and my 2nd daughter Natalia was born
exactly 31 years after me :-PPPPPPPPPP
Alberto Monteiro [who still claims being 30 years old]
Donna Duffey
Well, of course, no one can make this decision but you and your wife, and
you will no doubt get many varying opinions on the topic here. I have
known forever that I wanted a lot of kids. My husband has known forever
too. We met when I was 16, he 17, and married 4 1/2 years later. Exactly
one year and 10 days after our wedding, we had our first child. We now have
5 and love every minute of it. Life comes with no guarantees, even for a
child born with no condition. Life is going to throw you curves whether you
have another child or not. Life is going to bring you great joy if you let
it. You have a wonderful attitude Colin, but not all do. Just because
your wife is overwhelmed right now, does not mean she can't handle what life
tosses at her. The *adapting* process of bringing a child with DS into the
world is quite different for each and every one of us. Your wife is not on
your same time frame, but that's ok. I do have to say that my husband and
I feel very lucky that we had Maddie last and were never faced with this
decision (we knew before her birth that she would be our last child--I had
all c-sections--, but not about the DS), but I believe in my heart that we
still would have had five kids. Someone else mentioned adoption, which is
always a good idea. However, you need to realize that the same risks for
adoption go along with bringing a healthy baby of your own into the world.
Things happen. They just do!!
BTW, our daughter Maddie, who is 8 years old, was dx'd with autism when she
was 5. Yet another curve and yes I wish is wasn't so. But I still
wouldn't trade a moment of the life we have with Madison!! We adore her!!
Donna (Wife to Joe for 21 years, Mom to Joey (20), Laura (18), Brendan (16),
Alison (9), and Madison (8, DS and autism)
Donna Duffey
alb...@CENTROIN.COM.BR writes:
> *I* married exactly 4 years after I began "boyfriending"
> with Silvana, and my 2nd daughter Natalia was born
> exactly 31 years after me :-PPPPPPPPPP
>
> Alberto Monteiro [who still claims being 30 years old]
>
LOLOL Alberto!!! Still claiming to be 30, eh?? Maybe I can try that.
Although being 42, it might not be as believable....;-)
BTW, I like the term *boyfriending*. We used to say *going with*!! Didn't
mean we ever really went anywhere...LOL
Donna
PMWilson
to him with great affection. They had lost their son with DS at about the age
my son was when we met. Something they said has always stayed with me.
The gentleman of the couple said that they had talked about having another
child, but since they could not be guaranteed he or she would be like the son
they lost, they decided not to have another.
I believe every child is a precious gift, and should not have to live up to the
expectations parents have of them before they are born, so that they can show
us so much more of who they were meant to be from the start. The couple I met
at the mall might have set their expectations so high that any other child
would have lived in the shadow of the son they lost, and I honor their decision
for that reason.
One warning to you: mainstream children come full of surprises, too - some will
fill you with delight and some with dismay. So I promise however many children
you include in your family, none of them will allow time for boredom.
Wishing you all the best,
Pam W
SE of Seattle
Alberto Monteiro
>
>> *I* married exactly 4 years after I began "boyfriending"
>> with Silvana, and my 2nd daughter Natalia was born
>> exactly 31 years after me :-PPPPPPPPPP
>>
>> Alberto Monteiro [who still claims being 30 years old]
>
> LOLOL Alberto!!! Still claiming to be 30, eh??
>
_my_ birthdays O:-)
Alberto Monteiro
Maria Cunningham
were very aprehensive but at the same time we wanted a sibling for our son.
It was a very best decision we could have made. Chris is 16 yrs.old now, and
his two sisters - not DS- have been wonderful companions for him and love him
dearly. This is a decision that only you and your wife can made and we wish
you the best.
Maria
Annabel Tall
>
>So is another baby worth the risk. We've just come from the Geneticist who
>says the DS was not heriditory. With the age and all we have a 1 in 75
>chance of a 'normal' baby.
I think that should be a 74 in 75 chance of a 'normal' baby. 1 in 75
would be the chance of having another baby with DS, unless you have some
other very rare complications.
--
Annabel Tall
Maureen Young
You and your wife are the only ones who can make the decision to have
another baby. Kristen is 2 12yrs, she is our 2nd child.She was born 2 weeks
after i turned 35y. She has translocated ds which can be heritary. We chose
to have a 3rd child.
I always wanted a big family. For medical reasons We are settling on 3.
Our third child will be born in the next few weeks. We did all the testing
so we would know what to expect. Everything came back fine.
It is a very hard choice to make. You have to decide by weighing
how you would be able to deal with another child with problems or without
problems. Every new baby brings change to a family.
Maureen
Kathy Mackey
writes:
<< We are settling on 3.
Our third child will be born in the next few weeks. >>
Congratulations Maureen! How wonderful! Good luck with the delivery and
please let us know when the baby comes.
Kathy, Liam's mom (3 1/2)
JJ Moody.
<colint...@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> Should we have another baby?
Colin,
I understand your concerns and I think you are right to evaluate whether
it is wise to have another child if you think you and/or your wife's
heart(s) would break if the baby was not normal. No child comes with a
guarantee and every child deserves to be welcomed into the human
community regardless of his/her health status or any other factor. If you
do not think you could truly welcome a child who was born with a
disability or who developed one later, perhaps now is not the right time
to be having another child. On the other hand many times people feel
like they wouldn't be able to handle the challenge of a child (or another
child) with a disability, but in fact God equips them to do so very well
indeed.
I have included the following information about my husband's and my
experience related to this situation. It is frankly religious in nature
and for those who are uncomfortable with such stuff you may prefer to
delete at this point.
In my husband's and my situation we had two nda (not diagnosed with
anything) children, then our little girl with DS, and then another nda
child.
As part of our faith in God we believe the choice to practice birth
control or not (our part of the decision of whether to have a baby, since
once a child is conceived the baby has the God-given right to be born)
had to be made as we felt the Holy Spirit was leading us. I think it is
interesting that we came to that conclusion shortly before the conception
of our child with DS. Prior to that point we had been using birth
control. After our precious Joy was born we still did not feel from the
Lord that it was right to go back on birth control. However, shortly
after the birth of our fourth child we believe the Lord told us our
family was complete. I know this may sound weird, but I am confident that
if you ask God to show you His will and you truly want to do what He
shows you to do, He will give you the wisdom to make the right choice.
JJ of the incredibly blessed Don, JJ, Sarah (14 y/o), Abigail
(11 1/2 y/o), Joy (9 y/o CwDS), and David (6 1/2 y/o) Moodys
Michelle Koster
My post will also be religious in nature.
I really appreciate your post. I agree with you about being led by the Lord
in your decisions. We had one child, but when we decided to have the second
it just didn't happen. We had decided that we were going to be happy with
our one beautiful daughter when I became pregnant a second time. There are
7 years between my oldest child and my second. I was 38 when he came along,
but I always knew in my heart that we would try again. It just felt right.
I became pregnant immediately after we made the decision to have a third
baby. My AFP came back low indicating DS and my doctor wanted me to go in
for further testing, but we declined because we knew that the baby would be
born if the Lord willed that to happen and we could never interfere with
that. However, I was very upset and scared and sad that the baby might have
DS because I felt sure I was totally incapable of being a good mother to
this baby and questioned God as to why He chose me. There have been times
after Nina's birth that I wondered if we made the right choice - but those
moments are few and fleeting. and have come about during times of real
stress. The concerns I have had are for the fear and sadness that my oldest
daughter feels whenever she thinks something is wrong with Nina. When Nina
had her last surgery I was terribly worried about Katy because she was so
distraught and if anything had happened to Nina I didn't think she could
handle it. This is getting long and I apologize, but I just wanted to tell
you how much of your feelings I share. I had always wanted to have 4
children, but after Nina I just knew that our family was complete. My age
was a great determining factor, but it was also a feeling that I knew was
the right thing. Thanks again for your post.
Michelle in Texas