Life Ain't So Beautiful (starting to get cinema content :)
Cine...@aol.com
> Well, at first this thread didn't have much cinematic content, but alas,
> with this latest post i think it's getting there. I just can't keep my
> mouth shut when i see someone saying that violence on tv, or on the big
> screen, is causing people to act in that nature.
I believe that violence on TV is a strong influence. When kids see violence
on TV or in the movies they are not exposed to the harsh reality of the
horror of violence. All they usually get to see is a great deal of blood and
gore. As a result, a sort of desensitizing takes place where violence does
not seem so horrible to them.
> So Sasha, i guess i'll have to step up and get one of those big ol', fat,
> "fuck you's" you so kindly offered.
I'm with Sasha on this one....
> Well, as i don't have any kids i thankfully don't have to worry about this,
> but i do know that at the schools in this area a policeman is kept on
campus
> at all times, a SRO, or State Resource Officer, an obvious deterrant to
> violent activity on campus.
> I can't seem to see that violence in movies and film has anything
whatsoever
> to do with it.
> TV and films haven't been around forever, yet blood and violence have.
Jack
> the Ripper didn't go on a killing spree because the tv told him to now did
> he? My guess is he was fucked up from the start.
Yes he was screwed up. There are some people that are just that way, but I
still believe that exposing impressionable kids to gratutitous violence is
not healthy for them.
> Just think, if you DO start censoring everything, then all the people who
> are doing these crimes because of what they see on tv or movies(as you seem
> to think that's why they do this, or at least that's what i gathered from
> your post) will actually have to use their imagination!!! just imagine
> what fucked up things they'll conjure up then!! As for raising kids and
> all, well, if/when i ever have any, I sure as hell try not to raise them
to
> be a closeminded, shrewd, Trying to keep them from seeing
> violence/blood/sex, all of which they'll probably end up seeing anyway, and
> then having them possibly resent me for trying to 'protect' them.
Exposing kids to realities of life and wacking them over the head with
continuous exposure to these realities are two different things. I cannot
conceive of a parent who would not wish to protect their child from violence.
Sometimes this cannot be avoided for one reason or another, but I believe it
is a natural and appropriate instinct.
> God, the
> day all movies and tv programs are censored, or not allowed to be shown
> because of their content.. is the day that this country will forget one of
> it's founding principles.... freedom. (come to think of it, some of this
> is already started to happen)
Showing these programs is not so much the problem as impressionable children
having unsupervised access to these programs.
> As far as what kristen said, and about the shooting in denver......
> I'm just loving how dumb people are. "We saw three people get shot," she
> said. "They were just shooting. They didn't care who they shot. They were
> just shooting." Oh is that so? How does she know that? She just fuckin'
> assumes..
I hardly think it is appropriate to criticize the comments of someone who has
just witnessed people being murdered. Besides, they are as entitiled to
their assumptions as you are.
> meanwhile on the news they're saying the shooters were after kids
> who played sports, people in white hats, and minority students... and
> something was said about these 'outcasts' being made fun of last year..
> Maybe i'm the one that's insane but i'm not all that sympathetic. Kids in
> school are just pathetic and get off of harassing other students... let
them
> get shot a few times, maybe they'll learn they're not the center of the
> universe and can't just go around pissing everyone off to make them feel
> good about themselves. I'm still waiting for people i know to get their ass
> beat so hard so they'll wake up and realize that they are not as cool and
> untouchable as they think
I had to read this paragraph twice because I couldn't believe someone
actually thinks this way much less put it into words. Teenagers can be very
cruel. I have had first hand experience with that. However, I cannot
believe that you just nonchalantly suggest random shootings as a method of
dealing with it. Why is it so important to you that certain people "realize
that they are not as cool and untouchable as they think"? Grow up.
> "A student named James who called a local TV station said he was locked
> inside a classroom and he could hear a lot of crying and screaming out in
> the hallway, along with shouted threats." God i hate screaming.. if i was a
> terrorist or something the first people i would hurt would be the
> screamers... it accomplishes nothing. Do not scream..
You are an idiot. I should have said it at the beginning, but I'll just add
it in now.
> "At least 18 people injured; other reports say as many as 19." Umm.. 18..
as
> many as 19!!!.. Hehe i just think this statement was funny how they make 19
> seem like 50 more than 18.
Yeah. Hysterical. I'm sure the people in Denver Colorado are pleased that
they were able to amuse you.
Cheryl
Sasha Stone
>with this latest post i think it's getting there. I just can't keep my
>mouth shut when i see someone saying that violence on tv, or on the big
>screen, is causing people to act in that nature.
>
>"fuck you's" you so kindly offered.
>
outburst and I'm sorry.
I guess I'm just sick of seeing kids die.
>*flame suit on*
>
No, no. Again, very very sorry.
>I really don't ponder on decapitated heads and other such blood and gore in
>my spare time. If it's giving you a hard time trying to remain sane, then
>may i suggest you do not think about it so much?
>
Well, yeah, and to not watch the news would be the only way.
>Well, as i don't have any kids i thankfully don't have to worry about this,
>but i do know that at the schools in this area a policeman is kept on campus
>at all times, a SRO, or State Resource Officer, an obvious deterrant to
>violent activity on campus.
Yeah well now we need armed guards.
>I can't seem to see that violence in movies and film has anything whatsoever
>to do with it.
>TV and films haven't been around forever, yet blood and violence have. Jack
>the Ripper didn't go on a killing spree because the tv told him to now did
>he? My guess is he was fucked up from the start.
I would never equate serial killers with television. I would never equate
brutal warfare with
television/movies, nor would I ever equate throwing Christians to the lions with
media influence. I
do think this latest rash of killing of children by children has got to come
from the media. You
tell me where it comes from, then? How can these kids even learn how to shoot,
let alone know what
to use and all that were they not watching on TV? And I'm including the news
(which, here, is
probably the worst of all). And this is an observation; obviously we'll never
give up our so-called
artistic freedom just as we'll never give up our guns. Moot point, I suppose.
>Just think, if you DO start censoring everything, then all the people who
>are doing these crimes because of what they see on tv or movies(as you seem
>to think that's why they do this, or at least that's what i gathered from
>your post) will actually have to use their imagination!!! just imagine
>what fucked up things they'll conjure up then!!
It could never be as bad as some of the images I've seen on TV. If I were a
twisted, fucked up
young man rejected by his peers I might want to shoot someone too, given what I
raised with. See, I
believe we humans are visual creatures from the start. Violent images do not
hypnotize us, I don't
think, but they teach us ways we ought to respond. And again, I'm not talking
about DIRTY HARRY or
1970's stuff; I'm talking this 24 hours of television, computer games that are
horrifyingly bloody
and above all - news programs that feed violence to hungry viewers who crave it.
What made me write
this post was that I'm so sick of people just writing it off immediately because
they are
anti-cencorship. How many of these arguments have come and gone on Cine-l?
It's insane. And I
suppose I've always rode the fence. But this latest event convinced me. You
know what? Think
about it, if I wanted to use a gun I'd know how because I've seen so many people
die from guns in my
life. Sure, they're heavier and the kick back is probably more intense, but
essentially, I'd know
how to do it.
Btw, I am not one of those people who react only when white kids grab guns -
gang bangers, I
believe, also learn it from TV.
So if it's not censorship, you tell me what we should do? And don't tell me
nothing. And don't
tell me that it's up to the parents, cause the parents of victims are victims
themselves.
As for raising kids and
>all, well, if/when i ever have any, I sure as hell try not to raise them to
>be a closeminded, shrewd, Trying to keep them from seeing
>violence/blood/sex,
Okay, take sex out of that sentence. Nothing ugly or wrong about that. I
cannot believe how many
times the word sex is put with the word violence. And it's not about shielding
your kids or
teaching them not to be violent. Hell, parents of these kids check out and we
can't trust them
anymore. We have to protect our own kids. So - it's private school or
bullet-proof vests and I can
only hope that our appetite for violent images (after all, when you think about
it, these kids are
desperate for attention and when they see how much media attention these
shootings get, well, it
seems a perfect solution).
all of which they'll probably end up seeing anyway, and
>then having them possibly resent me for trying to 'protect' them.
Well, my friend doesn't let her kid watch the X-Files and she's eight years old.
Ironically, her
kid isn't the type who could open fire on other kids so...but still. It's nice
to preserve a
child's mind for as long as possible. It's only been in the last fifty years
that violent images
have been readily available on a daily basis - not real violence (because in
many ways that is the
most powerful message of all, in war-torn countries, for example) but fake
violence, trivialization
of it so it seems like no big deal to kill.
And I doubt they'd ever resent you for trying to protect them. Take from me, I
know.
God, the
>day all movies and tv programs are censored, or not allowed to be shown
>because of their content.. is the day that this country will forget one of
>it's founding principles.... freedom. (come to think of it, some of this
>is already started to happen)
I have to laugh. Sorry. I know you're being serious and all. But don't you
have to laugh at that?
Look at the picture, here. I get your point. Freedom! I want my MTV! Freedom
is often confused
with consumerism, imo. It's like freedom being associated with the "choice" to
smoke cigarettes.
You have to wonder who benefits ultimately. Sure, no one wants the government
to step in. But
what's a person to do?
>I don't think violent images have anything to do with causing this.
>
Well, what is?
>
>As far as what kristen said, and about the shooting in denver......
>I'm just loving how dumb people are. "We saw three people get shot," she
>said. "They were just shooting. They didn't care who they shot. They were
>just shooting." Oh is that so? How does she know that? She just fuckin'
>assumes..
Um, she was there? Have you ever been shot at as a confused teen who, before
that day, only had to
worry about chunky thighs, zits and when she'll pop her cherry? You can't
actually think these
shooters had a legit reason, can you?
meanwhile on the news they're saying the shooters were after kids
>who played sports, people in white hats, and minority students... and
>something was said about these 'outcasts' being made fun of last year..
>Maybe i'm the one that's insane but i'm not all that sympathetic. Kids in
>school are just pathetic and get off of harassing other students... let them
>get shot a few times, maybe they'll learn they're not the center of the
>universe and can't just go around pissing everyone off to make them feel
>good about themselves.
Oh jesus christ. I think I have to now re-instate the aforementioned revoked
big ol' fat fuck you.
You are scaring me.
I'm still waiting for people i know to get their ass
>beat so hard so they'll wake up and realize that they are not as cool and
>untouchable as they think
Christ, listen up dumb ass. Getting their "butt whooped" is a hell of a lot
different than a high
school massacre. You think those innocents deserved to die because they were
black or hispanic? Or
because the self-centered (white) ones ignored the moronic shooters? Give me a
fucking break. Your
argument was starting to sound reasonable but you lost me when you started to
justify those who
picked up the guns.
>"A student named James who called a local TV station said he was locked
>inside a classroom and he could hear a lot of crying and screaming out in
>the hallway, along with shouted threats." God i hate screaming.. if i was a
>terrorist or something the first people i would hurt would be the
>screamers... it accomplishes nothing. Do not scream..
Well, chappy, I think I best tune out here. Yeah, by god, don't scream if you
think you're about to
die. Be cool, man.
>"At least 18 people injured; other reports say as many as 19." Umm.. 18.. as
>many as 19!!!.. Hehe i just think this statement was funny how they make 19
>seem like 50 more than 18.
Obviously you don't have kids. Losing just one is bad enough.
Sasha
SrinivasG
school & Wambaugh argues in court that the influence was due to excess
violence on TV and gets his client an aquittal. That was a Classic Picket
Fences episode.
-----Original Message-----
From: Cine...@AOL.COM [mailto:Cine...@AOL.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 9:40 AM
To: CINE...@AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: Life Ain't So Beautiful (starting to get cinema content :)
im...@ATOMIC.NET writes:
> Well, at first this thread didn't have much cinematic content, but alas,
> with this latest post i think it's getting there. I just can't keep my
> mouth shut when i see someone saying that violence on tv, or on the big
> screen, is causing people to act in that nature.
I believe that violence on TV is a strong influence. When kids see violence
on TV or in the movies they are not exposed to the harsh reality of the
horror of violence. All they usually get to see is a great deal of blood
and
gore. As a result, a sort of desensitizing takes place where violence does
not seem so horrible to them.
> So Sasha, i guess i'll have to step up and get one of those big ol', fat,
> "fuck you's" you so kindly offered.
I'm with Sasha on this one....
> Well, as i don't have any kids i thankfully don't have to worry about
this,
> but i do know that at the schools in this area a policeman is kept on
campus
> at all times, a SRO, or State Resource Officer, an obvious deterrant to
> violent activity on campus.
> I can't seem to see that violence in movies and film has anything
whatsoever
> to do with it.
> TV and films haven't been around forever, yet blood and violence have.
Jack
> the Ripper didn't go on a killing spree because the tv told him to now
did
> he? My guess is he was fucked up from the start.
Yes he was screwed up. There are some people that are just that way, but I
still believe that exposing impressionable kids to gratutitous violence is
not healthy for them.
> Just think, if you DO start censoring everything, then all the people who
> are doing these crimes because of what they see on tv or movies(as you
seem
> to think that's why they do this, or at least that's what i gathered from
> your post) will actually have to use their imagination!!! just imagine
> what fucked up things they'll conjure up then!! As for raising kids and
> all, well, if/when i ever have any, I sure as hell try not to raise them
to
> be a closeminded, shrewd, Trying to keep them from seeing
> violence/blood/sex, all of which they'll probably end up seeing anyway,
and
> then having them possibly resent me for trying to 'protect' them.
Exposing kids to realities of life and wacking them over the head with
continuous exposure to these realities are two different things. I cannot
conceive of a parent who would not wish to protect their child from
violence.
Sometimes this cannot be avoided for one reason or another, but I believe
it
is a natural and appropriate instinct.
> God, the
> day all movies and tv programs are censored, or not allowed to be shown
> because of their content.. is the day that this country will forget one
of
> it's founding principles.... freedom. (come to think of it, some of
this
> is already started to happen)
Showing these programs is not so much the problem as impressionable children
having unsupervised access to these programs.
> As far as what kristen said, and about the shooting in denver......
> I'm just loving how dumb people are. "We saw three people get shot," she
> said. "They were just shooting. They didn't care who they shot. They were
> just shooting." Oh is that so? How does she know that? She just fuckin'
> assumes..
I hardly think it is appropriate to criticize the comments of someone who
has
just witnessed people being murdered. Besides, they are as entitiled to
their assumptions as you are.
> meanwhile on the news they're saying the shooters were after kids
> who played sports, people in white hats, and minority students... and
> something was said about these 'outcasts' being made fun of last year..
> Maybe i'm the one that's insane but i'm not all that sympathetic. Kids in
> school are just pathetic and get off of harassing other students... let
them
> get shot a few times, maybe they'll learn they're not the center of the
> universe and can't just go around pissing everyone off to make them feel
> good about themselves. I'm still waiting for people i know to get their
ass
> beat so hard so they'll wake up and realize that they are not as cool and
> untouchable as they think
I had to read this paragraph twice because I couldn't believe someone
actually thinks this way much less put it into words. Teenagers can be very
cruel. I have had first hand experience with that. However, I cannot
believe that you just nonchalantly suggest random shootings as a method of
dealing with it. Why is it so important to you that certain people "realize
that they are not as cool and untouchable as they think"? Grow up.
> "A student named James who called a local TV station said he was locked
> inside a classroom and he could hear a lot of crying and screaming out in
> the hallway, along with shouted threats." God i hate screaming.. if i was
a
> terrorist or something the first people i would hurt would be the
> screamers... it accomplishes nothing. Do not scream..
You are an idiot. I should have said it at the beginning, but I'll just add
it in now.
> "At least 18 people injured; other reports say as many as 19." Umm.. 18..
as
> many as 19!!!.. Hehe i just think this statement was funny how they make
19
> seem like 50 more than 18.
Yeah. Hysterical. I'm sure the people in Denver Colorado are pleased that