Life is Beauti-/Brutiful
Ronnie Rittenberry
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:43:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ronnie Rittenberry <rrit...@condor.depaul.edu>
To: Discussions on all forms of Cinema <CINE...@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Life is Beauti-/Brutiful
On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, barbrose wrote:
> Well, you certainly sounded like you thought it was unfair that
> certain people are in the limelight or making the big bucks and
> others aren't. That sounds a bit like envy to me. But, if you
> say you aren't envious, I'll take your word for it.
Good.
> I don't see it as unfair that certain people have certain gifts,
> luck, what have you because I believe that others have other
> gifts, luck, what have you.
That was the joke of it. The whole reason I mentioned Pauly Shore et al.
The intended joke being that he's a prime example of a giftless/talentless
soul being nevertheless basically a household name, rewarded by the
populace, celebrated, etc. And Monica and Tori.
But, anyway, it was a joke. Or an attempt at one, I should say.
> What makes you believe that I have a "perfectly cloistered
> existence"? I can assure you that I do not nor have I ever had
> one. I just happen to have a different attitude about life than
> you have.
Not really. I agree with what you've said about fame/fortune/outlook.
I just like the word "cloistered" and hadn't typed it in . . . well, a
really long time.
> > Oh, I'm not saying that I see the world through
> > barbrose-colored glasses or anything, like some people I know
> > (and don't get the wrong idea--I like you; you remind me of when
> > I was young and injudicious),
> I remind you of when you were young, do I?
Nope. Joking again. Didn't you think "barbrose-colored glasses" was a
*little* funny? Geez, Louise.
> Let's really face it and admit that the world is what we make of
> it. If we see it as brutal and unfair, it will show itself to
> us in that way. If we see it as beautiful, then it will show
> itself to us in that manner. IMHO, we get just exactly what we
> "really" expect to get.
For the most part I'm over here in total agreement. . . .
Unless we're just, for example, sitting in the library or, say, the
cafeteria at high school one day and a couple of pimply-faced dickheads
come in wearing dusters and armed to the nines and inexplicably open
fire. Who "really" expected that? The world is what we make of it?
Maybe that's true as a general rule (and who'd argue that it's not a
good guiding life principle?), but sometimes the world makes us, too.
> I believe that we choose what each life will be. Life is, for
> me, nothing more nor less than a series of experiences, some
> preferable/some non-preferable. My attitude makes all the
> difference in whether I am happy and peaceful or not in any of
> these experiences or existences.
Unless again you happened to be in that cafeteria happily thinking your
rose-colored thoughts while in the line of fire, and then, really, your
attitude wouldn't come into play or basically amount to much at all,
right? I'm guessing here. The thing is, sometimes bad things
happen to good people. Sometimes bad things happen to bad people. Bad
things just occasionally/regularly happen.
But good/great things, too! one should optimistically add.
> To me there is no end...just a different set of experiences.
In the metaphysical sense, you mean? Like in "Defending Your Life" or
"Heart and Soul" or "Ghost" or "The Reincarnation of Peter Proud" or
"What Dreams May Come" or "Made in Heaven" (1987) or "Chances Are" or
"Heaven Can Wait" or that one with James Caan as the deceased husband who
watches over Sally Field or what?
> Anyway, this is a cinema list, not a philosophy list, so I think
> I'll let this discussion go. I doubt that you and I can do
> anything more than agree to disagree about it. :-)
Oh, c'mon doubting Barbas, I think we can do MUCH more than that! We were
just getting around to the cinema content. Besides, if you think film and
philosophy have nothing in common, then . . . well, then dinner with
Scorcese probably isn't your idea of a fun evening.
Not that I'm judging you or your lifeview by saying so, mind
you. But everything can be related to cinema, I do believe. Even, for
example, the tragedy in Littleton yesterday. When I first heard of it and
caught only the sparsest details--about the trenchcoats and guns,
mainly--I thought, oh no, some stupid, twisted punk has acted out Keanu's
slow-motion shoot-up scene in "The Matrix," because that's just what it
sounded like. As it turns out, the so-called "Trenchcoat Mafia"
responsible for the bloodshed has apparently been around for a while,
predating that movie. But having only the radio report to go on, those
were the visuals my mind first supplied. Who knows what the actual source
was? More information will be forthcoming, undoubtedly.
RR
barbrose
gifts,
> > luck, what have you because I believe that others have other
> > gifts, luck, what have you.
> That was the joke of it. The whole reason I mentioned Pauly
Shore et al.
> The intended joke being that he's a prime example of a
giftless/talentless
> soul being nevertheless basically a household name, rewarded
by the
> populace, celebrated, etc. And Monica and Tori.
> But, anyway, it was a joke. Or an attempt at one, I should
say.
Well, I agree that they are talentless and giftless...so they're
just 'lucky'...not sure if it's good or bad luck, though. :-)
> Nope. Joking again. Didn't you think "barbrose-colored
glasses" was a
> *little* funny? Geez, Louise.
It was the first time I heard it. :-)
>
> > Let's really face it and admit that the world is what we
make of
> > it. If we see it as brutal and unfair, it will show itself
to
> > us in that way. If we see it as beautiful, then it will
show
> > itself to us in that manner. IMHO, we get just exactly what
we
> > "really" expect to get.
> For the most part I'm over here in total agreement. . . .
> Unless we're just, for example, sitting in the library or,
say, the
> cafeteria at high school one day and a couple of pimply-faced
dickheads
> come in wearing dusters and armed to the nines and
inexplicably open
> fire. Who "really" expected that? The world is what we make
of it?
> Maybe that's true as a general rule (and who'd argue that it's
not a
> good guiding life principle?), but sometimes the world makes
us, too.
Well, maybe if they hadn't been called 'pimply-faced dickheads'
(and probably a lot of other names) all their lives, they
wouldn't have done what they did. In an earlier post (a few
minutes ago), I mentioned my views on how our school system
fails our children.
> > I believe that we choose what each life will be. Life is,
for
> > me, nothing more nor less than a series of experiences, some
> > preferable/some non-preferable. My attitude makes all the
> > difference in whether I am happy and peaceful or not in any
of
> > these experiences or existences.
> Unless again you happened to be in that cafeteria happily
thinking your
> rose-colored thoughts while in the line of fire, and then,
really, your
> attitude wouldn't come into play or basically amount to much
at all,
> right? I'm guessing here.
You guessed wrong. I have the same attitude no matter what
comes into my life, preferable or non-preferable...just another
experience. If I lived through it, I would be thankful. If I
didn't live through it, I would be thankful. :-)
> > To me there is no end...just a different set of experiences.
>
> In the metaphysical sense, you mean? Like in "Defending Your
Life" or
> "Heart and Soul" or "Ghost" or "The Reincarnation of Peter
Proud" or
> "What Dreams May Come" or "Made in Heaven" (1987) or "Chances
Are" or
> "Heaven Can Wait" or that one with James Caan as the deceased
husband who
> watches over Sally Field or what?
Well, with the exception of one of the above and I have seen and
enjoyed them all, some more than others. And though I don't
believe in it's premise, "Defending Your Life" was my favorite
of the group. Of course, as far as cinematography is concerned
(and special effects) "What Dreams May Come" holds my heart.
:-)
Barbara
Ronnie Rittenberry
> Well, maybe if they hadn't been called 'pimply-faced dickheads'
> (and probably a lot of other names) all their lives, they
> wouldn't have done what they did.
"Sticks and stones," I say. And I can't believe you and others
even partially excuse the killers' actions on grounds that they
were--gasp!--called names.
> You guessed wrong. I have the same attitude no matter what
> comes into my life, preferable or non-preferable...just another
> experience.
A bullet in the head is a hell of thing to have come into your life, is
all I'm saying. One hell of "just another experience."
> If I lived through it, I would be thankful. If I
> didn't live through it, I would be thankful. :-)
Um, ok. Right. I don't think I've ever felt that latitude of gratitude
about *anything*. . . . Then again, I'll just be honest and admit I don't
at all get that second sentence there, Barb.
> And though I don't
> believe in it's premise, "Defending Your Life" was my favorite
> of the group.
That was pretty good, wasn't it? I hadn't *consciously* thought of that
movie I guess for years prior to yesterday, but when I was trying to come
up with afterlife films (and, believe me, I've thought of about a hundred
in the meantime) that one just leapt to mind for some reason. I really
like the casting in it. It's probably Brooks' best stuff--maybe aside
from "Broadcast News," for which he was perfectly cast.
> Of course, as far as cinematography is concerned
> (and special effects) "What Dreams May Come" holds my heart.
> :-)
Yeah. I like the effect created when the wife is squirting the paint
thinner on the painted tree, making it sort of "melt" on the canvas, and
Williams' character observes what's happening from his side of things and
screams out in sadness. That scene got me for some reason.
And when he's walking through hell, tiptoeing among the upraised faces
stuck in the mud--memorable imagery, for sure.
RR
barbrose
dickheads'
> > (and probably a lot of other names) all their lives, they
> > wouldn't have done what they did.
> "Sticks and stones," I say. And I can't believe you and
others
> even partially excuse the killers' actions on grounds that
they
> were--gasp!--called names.
The name calling is just the tip of the iceberg. Being made,
day after day, to feel like "you don't fit in", "you're
unacceptable", "you're less than the dirt we walk on", etc. And
then the adults don't do anything about it, accept it as what is
the 'norm'...those are just some of the things that add up to
over powering the minds of children who are not psychologically
strong in the first place. And that last is the reason why some
people break and commit horrendous acts and others suck it in
and go on with their lives. We are not all genetically equal
psychologically. Some of us are psychologically stronger than
others just as some are physically stronger than others.
> > You guessed wrong. I have the same attitude no matter what
> > comes into my life, preferable or non-preferable...just
another
> > experience.
> A bullet in the head is a hell of thing to have come into your
life, is
> all I'm saying. One hell of "just another experience."
But, it is, when all is said and done, just that...another
experience.
>
> > If I lived through it, I would be thankful. If I
> > didn't live through it, I would be thankful. :-)
>
> Um, ok. Right. I don't think I've ever felt that latitude of
gratitude
> about *anything*. . . . Then again, I'll just be honest and
admit I don't
> at all get that second sentence there, Barb.
It's meaning is simple...I am grateful for every experience I
have...whether or not I would have 'chosen' that experience.
Barbara
Dave Edsall - The Tauminator
>even partially excuse the killers' actions on grounds that they
>were--gasp!--called names.
I for one have never "excused" the killings. I condemn them. I only made
the point that I "understand" possibly why they did it and think that we
should concentrate on this issue.
Dave
mleidig
feminine gestures and the disinterest in sports. I'm the one who was called
sissy, fag and worse. I'm the one who has to hide any trace of my sexuality
from my boss because my sexuality is a "private matter" even though he has
nudie books in his office. I'm the one who goes into Blockbuster to rent
Postcards from America (a bio pic about a gay artist), and I find that it
has a parental warning sticker on it even though all the violent horror
movies have none. I'm the one who can hardly find any gay movies at
Blockbuster, and when I ask the manager why this is, I'm told that gay films
aren't for normal viewers. I'm the one who is told that I'm flaunting my
sexuality in people's faces because I go to a gay lesbian film festival. I'm
the one who is told that gay and lesbian filmmakers should not have their
own festivals because there's no need for them to call attention to
themselves. I'm the one who had to walk through a protest march because my
local theatre had the "nerve" to show Longtime Companion. I'm the one who is
assaulted daily by images and words that tell me that I should be ashamed of
who I am. I'm the one who does not pick up a gun and shoot other people
because I've been called names or because I have endured hardships. No one
in this life has a free ride. Each of us has been terrorized by someone or
some group at one time or another. That does not mean we retalliate by
pulling the trigger. Words and rejections might sting but gunshots are
permanent. No one deserves what happened in Littleton. No one.
Chris Leidig
Sasha Stone
Sasha
OCC-Lots of great hats in the movie DANGEROUS LIAISONS.
barbrose
And you are also one of the ones who have the psychological
strength to endure and not turn violent...a strength that was
not possessed by the two in Littleton. You are, to my way of
thinking, a most fortunate man. We live in a society that has
been taught not to accept differences and that makes it very
hard on those that go their separate paths. We really need to
teach children, from a very early age, to be more accepting and
much less judgmental.
Barbara
Sasha Stone
>strength to endure and not turn violent...a strength that was
>not possessed by the two in Littleton. You are, to my way of
>thinking, a most fortunate man. We live in a society that has
>been taught not to accept differences and that makes it very
>hard on those that go their separate paths. We really need to
>teach children, from a very early age, to be more accepting and
>much less judgmental.
>
think these kids represent the norm. And I don't think the shooting should
"teach us a lesson about how cruel we are to one another." No. I do not,
I will not think that. There is something far more sinister and evil going
on here.
Sasha
OCC-I still think we need more movies glorifying the geek, like we had in
the early eighties, and less movies glorifying smoking and violence.