[CHRISTIA] FW: Re: [CHRISTIA] An ossuary
Tom Sathre
> From: Tom Sathre <tsa...@earthlink.net>
> To: Practical Christian Life <CHRI...@asu.edu>
> Cc: David Williams-Thomas <d.willia...@BTINTERNET.COM>
> Date: 11/9/02 7:03:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [CHRISTIA] An ossuary
>
> David,
>
> This is Tom Sathre. Do you have any idea(s) about how to convert interest
in the Lord into interest in the Bible or (the good side of) religion?
>
> Tom.
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: David Williams-Thomas <d.willia...@BTINTERNET.COM>
> > To: <CHRI...@asu.edu>
> > Date: 11/4/02 6:35:17 AM
> > Subject: Re: [CHRISTIA] An ossuary
> >
> > Yes, I saw this article, too.
> > It gave me a great sense of the immediacy of our Lords time/life on
earth.
> > Even if it is not the ossuary of James the brother of our Lord, but of
an
> > approximate contemporary, it makes those times seem as close as
yesterday. I
> > gather Jesus was quite a common name. I think ossuaries were used to
store
> > the bones of the deceased to create space in vaults, caves, catacombes
etc,
> > so that these could be used for those more recently dead. The photo I
saw
> > showed the ossuary about 24 inches long X about 10 inches wide, and it
is
> > wonderfully preserved. The other point of interest to me is the amount
of
> > interest created on the press....who says that interest in our Lord is
non
> > existent??
> > Peace!!
> >
> > David
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Sathre" <tsa...@EARTHLINK.NET>
> > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
> > To: <CHRI...@asu.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 1:37 AM
> > Subject: [CHRISTIA] An ossuary
> >
> >
> > > Friends,
> > >
> > > This is Tom Sathre. A limestone ossuary was recently found in Israel.
The
> > > announcement was made 10/21/02 by a Methodist in Kentucky. The name
of the
> > > announcer was "Witherington". (I don't know the man's first name, nor
even
> > > if it was a man.)
> > >
> > > The inscription on the ossuary said (translated, of course) "James,
son of
> > > Joseph, brother of Jesus". The date that Witherington offers for the
> > > ossuary is 62 A.D.
> > >
> > > Has any of you heard of this? Is this more than a box with bones in
it, at
> > > least so far as your faith goes?
> > >
> > > Tom.
> > >
> > > Tom and Donna Sathre
> > > (303)973-8035 (H)
> > > (303)677-2329 (W)
> > > (801)640-8902 (F)
> > > Suggestion: since my former EMail account will go away later this
year,
> > why
> > > not update your records now?
> > >
> > >
> > > For subscription information, visit
> > <http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy/CHRISTIA>
> > > To leave the list, send the command UNSUB CHRISTIA to
> >
> >
> > For subscription information, visit
<http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy/CHRISTIA>
> > To leave the list, send the command UNSUB CHRISTIA to
LIST...@LISTS.ASU.EDU
>
>
> Tom and Donna Sathre
> (303)973-8035 (H)
> (303)677-2329 (W)
> (801)640-8902 (F)
> Suggestion: since my former EMail account will go away later this year,
why not update your records now?
Tom and Donna Sathre
(303)973-8035 (H)
(303)677-2329 (W)
(801)640-8902 (F)
Suggestion: since my former EMail account will go away later this year, why
not update your records now?
For subscription information, visit <http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy/CHRISTIA>
To leave the list, send the command UNSUB CHRISTIA to LIST...@LISTS.ASU.EDU
David Williams-Thomas
Sorry to have taken a little time to reply....and this is far too long..
I asked myself whether you were thinking of Christians who are already 'on
the Way' or of seekers who have only just recently been attracted by the
Lord.
In the first case ISTM, and speaking for myself, and one or two people I
know, that the scriptures, along with personal and communal prayer,the
sacraments, (especially the Eucharist), life in the church, and christian
action, are where we actually encounter the Lord.And by this I do not mean
the Jesus of history, or of some fantasy world, but Jesus here and now, as
on the road to Emmaus, we still meet the Lord in the Scriptures and in his
body, the Church.
And speaking for myself, the Ignatian approach can be very helpful.
Imaginative prayer on a passage of scripture, often one of the miracle
stories, followed by reflection on what actually happened in the prayer, and
review to become aware of where God was, and was not in the prayer, can be
enormously powerful. I know this is not for everyone. There are as many ways
to pray as there are people...thank God! But for me the Scriptures are so
precious as Gods word speaking directly to the Soul, and the history of His
dealings with mankind.
Now if we mean someone who has just started to be attracted by the Lord, and
this can often happen by observing the life/actions of a contact who is a
Christian, we are talking about evangelism, and here I feel it pays to be
very sensitive to the person and their needs. There are some who ahave been
very put off by 'the Bible' early on in their lives. To bring this in early
on might not be what they are seeking. We need to enable them to find out
for them selves what they ARE seeking (their deepest desire).God will be in
our deepest desires.And if a seeker can be helped to recognise his/her
deepest desire, they will already be listening to God.Appropriate scripture
can then be helpful.
There is much more to this than I can include here
Im not sure whether Im anywhere near the intention of your question.
While Im here what is the history of this site? and what was the original
intention in getting it going? Is it principally an academic site? with the
U of Arizona connection?
It seems to concentrate on Biblical exegesis, and a lot of the time it seems
to be a test on who can most quickly come up with references, verse numbers
etc. Is it only for Bible scholars?
Has there ever been discussion on Christian sprituality? and maybe how to
deal with New Age Seekers, and those attracted by Eastern mysticism..I know
lot and would value help in finding relevant ways of helping them to know
Jesus. What about prayer? Ways of praying etc etc It would be good to look
at this.What about Christian action/social action? Im surprised that there
is so little on War, and the possibility of war. especially at the moment.
I value the site, and feel it is expanding for me (even if sometimes
difficult) to try to understand fellow Christians ideas, in love, some of
which are so far from my own.
....And WHAT IS a Nicolaitan? I know its Rev 2v6
Thanks!!!!!!
robert weiss
> Williams-Thomas
[...]
> While Im here what is the history of this site? and what was the
original
> intention in getting it going? Is it principally an academic site?
with
> the
> U of Arizona connection?
The list was started about 1988 by Mr. Joni Makivirta, of Finland, at
the University of Technology in Helsinki. Due to the 8dot3 nature of the
listserv software, the name he wanted, "Christian" became the list's
name, "Christia." It had the address christia@finhutc.
His goal was to have a place where fellow believers could share their
experiences and insights in order to edify and encourage the brethren
and cistern.
As the list waxed, it happened that most of those who joined were from
the United States. In these early bandwidth limited days, it was common
to have
more daily messages than some mailboxes could hold. This delay and
packet punching across the Atlantic just added to the cacophony.
One of the listmembers at the time, Madge McBurney, offered some space
for the archives* and listserv, at her place of employment, ASU. This
helped throughput greatly. And the list became chri...@asu.edu .
[...]
> ....And WHAT IS a Nicolaitan? I know its Rev 2v6
Just do it. Nike the laity.
The meaning that some are seeing in this word is a battle against a
sacerdotal order and the people. A division between clergy and laity.
The best explanation of this view, that I have seen, is in a footnote in
the Recovery Version Bible, which was written by Witness Lee** (quoting
from http://online.recoveryversion.org/FootNotes.asp?FNtsID=8684):
Revelation 2 : 6
6 But this you have, that you hate the works of the (1a)Nicolaitans,
which I also hate.
6 (1a) The Greek word is composed of two words, one meaning conquer or
be victorious over and another meaning common people, secular people, or
laity. Thus, it means conquering the common people, being victorious
over the laity. Nicolaitans, then, must refer to a group of people who
esteem themselves higher than common believers. This was undoubtedly the
hierarchy adopted and established by Catholicism and Protestantism. The
Lord hates the works, the behavior, of these Nicolaitans, and we must
hate what the Lord hates.
God in His economy intended that all His people be priests serving Him
directly. In Exo. 19:6, God ordained the children of Israel to be a
kingdom of priests. This means that God wanted them all to be priests.
However, because they worshipped the golden calf (Exo. 32:1-6), they
lost the priesthood, and only the tribe of Levi, because of its
faithfulness to God, was chosen to replace the whole nation of Israel as
priests to God (Exo. 32:25-29; Deut. 33:8-10). Hence, there was a
mediatorial class between God and the children of Israel. This became a
strong system in Judaism. In the New Testament, God has returned to His
original intention according to His economy, in that He has made all
believers in Christ priests (1:6; 5:10; 1 Pet. 2:5, 9). But at the end
of the initial church, even in the first century, the Nicolaitans
intervened as the mediatorial class to spoil God's economy. According to
church history, this became a system that was adopted by the Roman
Catholic Church and has been retained by the Protestant churches. Today
in the Roman Catholic Church there is the priestly system, in the state
churches there is the clerical system, and in the independent churches
there is the pastoral system. All these are a mediatorial class,
spoiling the universal priesthood of all believers. Thus, there are two
distinct classes -- the clergy and the laity. But in the proper church
life there should be neither clergy nor laity; all believers should be
priests of God. Because the mediatorial class destroys the universal
priesthood in God's economy, the Lord hates it.
Among the seven serving ones in Acts 6:5, one was named Nikolaos (Gk.).
There is nothing in church history to indicate that this Nikolaos was
the first of the Nicolaitans.
[end quote]
*-most of the early archives at finhutc were lost when the building was
struck by lightning.
**-I do not advocate the views of Witness Lee, his Recovery Version, or
his group, Living Stream Ministry, aka "the Local Church." This quote is
offered only to give insight to how some people view the word,
"NikoLaitans." For more on The Recovery Version see,
http://www.recoveryversionexposed.org/mission.html
內躬偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻齯滌`偕中滌`偕�robert weiss bobw...@adelphia.net
Nelta
Hello, Robert. Thank you for sending this history. I am curious,
however. How do you differ with Witness Lee?
nib
Nelta Brock
http://www.hal-pc.org/~nib/
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