the Holy Mother
Richard S. Ellis
in this century and what were her messages. Does anyone have any citations
that they can share with me. Thanks in advance. Please pray the rosary
for peace.
Martha Smith
I think you'll have to ask her yourself. There seem to be more reported
sightings than probable sightings ... and you wouldn't want to pin someone
on this board to determining actual sightings ... plus of course the
(possible) problem of unsighted visits ...
Dick Corrigan
> <REL...@VTVM1.BITNET> writes:
> I want to know how many times that the Holy Mother has visited our planet
> in this century and what were her messages. Does anyone have any citations
> that they can share with me. Thanks in advance. Please pray the rosary
> for peace.
(*Approved and Alleged -- Input Welcome)
Year Place: Recipients: Theme:
Began:
0039 Zaragosa, Spain St. James Or Lady of the Pillar
0270 Gregory the Thaumaturge
0325 Council of Nicea St. Nicholas Mary Placed a Crown on His Head
1066 Espain, France St. Albert Mary, "Queen of Heaven"
1095 Arras, France Entire Town "Queen of Universe" Appeared in
Clouds
1100 Canterbury, England St. Anselm Many Visions of Mary
1110 Clairvaux, France St. Bernard Mary Appeared With Angels
1205 Spain St. Dominic Mary Gave Him the Rosary
1218 Barcelona, Spain St. Peter Nolasco Told by Mary to Found Order
of Lady of Ransom
1219 Orleans, France Dean Reginald Mary Appeared as "Queen of
Heaven"
1221 Padua, Italy St. Anthony Mary Appeared to Him
1232 Eifel, Germany Hermannm Joseph Saw Mary Several Times
1251 Mr. Carmel, Israel St. Simon Stock Mary Gave Him the Brown
Scapular
1315 Sweden St. Briget When A Child, She Saw Mary
1413 Schiedain, Holland St. Lidwina Saw Mary
1432 Caravaggio, Italy Gianetta di Pietro Vacchi Mary Promised Peace
1438 Bologna, Italy Townspeople Saw Mary Above the Roofs
1449 Anderlecht, Belgium A Woman "Dame de Grace"
1491 Alsace Dieter Schore Saw Mary With Food
1519 Mont Vardaille, France Jean de la Baume Saw Mary Above the Hills
1531 *Mexico Juan Diego & Jaun BernardinoOur Lady of
Guadalupe
1535 Peru Many People Our Lady of the Rosary
1544 Chile Many People Our Lady of Andacollo
1550 Lisbon, Protugal Sebastian Baraddas Mary Urged a Jesuit
Vocation
1555 Columbia Many People Our Lady of Chiquinquira
1556 Bolivia Many People Our Lady of Copacabana
1559 Russia Matrona, age 8 Our Lady of Kazan
1586 Ecuador Many People Our Lady of Quinche
1594 Quito, Ecuador Indians Mary Saved Them From Famine
1600 Dominican Republic Many People Our Lady of Altagracia
1600 Conception, Chile Araucani Indians Image of Mary Became Alive
1603 Paraguay Many People Our Lady of Caacupe
1604 Ingolstadt, Germany Fr. Jakob Rem Saw Mary Floating Above Ground
1604 Cuba Many People Our Lady of Cobre
1609 Chiavari, Italy Townspeople Saw Two Visions of Mary With the
Infant
1620 Spain Mary of Agreda Saw Mary With Infant Jesus and
Dove Above Her
1625 Sante Fe, New Meixco Many People Our Lady of the Conquest
1630 Argentina Townspeople Our Lady of Lujan; Statue in
Procession Would not be Moved
1635 Costa Rica Many People Our Lady of the Angels
1650 Venezuela Many People Our Lady of Coromoto
1631 Naples, Italy Several Jesuits Mary Announced the Eruption of
Vesuvius
1634 Quito, Ecuador Mother a de Jesus Torres Our Lady of Good
Success
1667 France St. Margaret Mary Alacoque Saw Sacred Heart and
Mary as well
1671 France Margaret Mary Alacocque When a Child, She Saw
Mary
1696 Quito, Ecuador The Bishop There Mary Cured Him and Appeared
as Queen of Heaven
1714 Canada Three Priests Our Lady of the Cape
1716 Italy St. Veronica Giuliani Saw Mary, Angels and Was
Shown Hell
1717 Brazil Many People Our Lady of Apparecida, 3rd
Largest Cathedral in World
1820 Germany St Anna Catherine Emmerich Saw Mary Who
Revealed Life of Christ
1825 Uruguay Many People Our Lady of Treinta Y Tres
1830 *Rue du Bac, Paris Sister Catherine Laboure Immaculate Conception,
Miraculous Medal"
1836 *O.L. of Victories, Paris Father Genettes Parish Consecration to
Immmaculate Heart of Mary
1840 *Blangy, France Sister Justine Bisqueyburu Green Scapular; Saw
Mary's Flaming Heart Peirce With Sword
1840 Ars, France St. John Vianney & Mrs. Durie Saw Mary in the
Cure's Room
1841 Montana, U.S.A. Report of Fr. De Smet, S.J. Immaculate Heart
of Mary
1842 Rome, Italy Alphonse Ratisbonne Mary Appeared as in the
Miraculous Medal
1842 Toumai, Belgium Sr. Maris Stanislaus Often Saw Mary in the
"Classroom of the Poor"
1846 *La Salette, France Melanie Mathieu, Maximin Giraud Warning:Repent
Keep Sunday Holy
1846 U.S.A. Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception
1848 Obermauerbach, Bavaria Farm Laborer Stichmayer Saw Mary in Meadows
Weeping
1848 Montesse, France Eleven Citizens Saw Mary Often
1849 Kamten, Austria Three Shepherdesses Had Several Visions of Mary
1853 Tuscany, Italy Veronica Nucci Had Frequent Visions of Mary
1856 France Marie de Bray After a Cure at Assisi, Saw Mary
as Queen of Angels
1858 *Lourdes, France Bernadette Soubirous Immaculate Conception
1858 Green Bay, Wisconsin Adele Brisse Mary Told Her to Teach the Faith
1860 Francoules, France Pauline Perie In a Church, Saw Mary Appear as
a Young Girl
1863 Anglet, France Fr. L. E. Cestac Mary Appeared as Queen of
Angels and Showed the devil
1865 Corato, Italy Luisa Piccarreta Many Inspirations About
Divine Will
1866 Bohemia, Czechoslovalda Magdalene Kade Mary Appeared and Cured Her
1868 Bois d'Haine, Belgium Luise Lateau, Stigmatist Saw Mary With Angels
and Saints
1869 Tsuwano, Japan Yasutaro, age 32 Comforted by Mary While
Martyed for Faith
1870 Potay-Loigny, France General Papal Aouaves Mary Consoled Him When
Wounded on Battlefield
1871 *Pontmain, France Eugene & Jsoeph Barbadette Mary with Cross;
Our Lady of Hope, Co Rederptrix
1871 Innsbruck, Austria Maria Kalb Had Vision on Mary
1871 Lausanne, Switzerland Maria-Francoise Decotterd Saw Mary Twice in
Her Sickroom
1871 Sr. Louis, U.S.A. Therese Schaffer When She was Very ill, She
Saw Mary
1872 L'Hopital, France Christine G. Saw Mary for One Hour in a Church
1872 *Pompeii, Italy Bartolo Longo The Holy Rosary
1873 Mulhausen, France Two Little Girls Died Soon After Several
Nocturnal Visions of Mary
1873 SL Avola, France Cadierina Filljung Mary Appeared in Blue Robe
and White Veil
1873 Wittelsheim, Alsace Townspeople Numerous Visions of Mary
1873 Walbach, Alsace Jospeh Hoffert and Others "Our Lady of the
Rhine;" Prayer and Penance
1873 Montpellier, France August Amauld Mary Requested Statue and
Procession
1873 Blain, France Marie Julie Jahenny Warnings, Tears Shed Over
France
1876 *Pellevoisin, France Estene Faguette Scapular of Sacred Heart of
Jesus; 15 Visions of Mary
1877 Poland Four Women Had 160 Visions of Mary and Angels
1879 *Knock, Ireland Fifteen Persons Lamb of God Image in
Apocalyptic Tableau
1882 Lyons, France Anne-Marie Coste Saw Mary and the Infant Jesus
1884 St. Columbin, France Maria Lordeau At Age Nine, She Had Several
Classic Visions of Mary
1886 Diemoz, France Marie-Louise Nerbolliers At Age 27, Had a
Vision of Mary
1886 Castelpetroso, Italy Two Virgins Over Age 30 Saw the Pieta and Our
Lady of Sorrows
1890 Signy, France Alfred & Marie Caileaux Mary Appeared in Prayer
to these Children
1895 Vellangany, India 12 year old ill girl Mary Appeared With Infant
Jesus
1896 Bayeux, France 50 School Children Visions of Mary With Angels
and Saints
1902 Ephesus, Turkey Helen Place Where Mary Lived With St. John
1904 Poland Fr. Maximilian Kolbe Mary Offered Him Crown of
Chastity or Martry
1906 Quito, Ecuador Teachers, Pupils, others, 3 daysSaw Image of
Suffering Madonna Move Eyes and Face
1909 Bordeaux, France Mrs. Marie Mesmin Warnings, Prayers
1917 *Fatima, Portugal Lucia, Francisco, & Jacinta Consecration to the
Immaculate Heart of Mary
1918 Muzillac, France Three Children Had 65 Visions of Mary
1918 Foggia, Italy Padre Pio Saw Our Lady Many Times; She
Comforted Him
1925 Tuy, Spain Sister Lucia Saw Mary With Child Jesus
1926 Marlemont, France Maria P., Six Years Old Twice Saw Mary Weeping
1928 Vosges, France Number of Children Saw Mary With Rays Coming
From Her Hands
1929 Campinas, Brazil Sister Amalia Chaplet of Our Lady's Tears
1931 Ezquioga, Spain Many People Saw Our Lady of Sorrows; Angels
and Saints
1931 La Pailly, France Pere Lamy Mary Ofter Spoke to Him
1932 *Beauraing, Belgium 5 Voisin & Degeimbre children Immaculate Virgin
With Heart of Gold, 33 Times
1933 *Banneux, Belgium Marietta Beco, 12 Year Old Virgin of the Poor
1933 Crollon, France Children Saw Mary in White With Crown of Roses
1933 Onkerzeele, Belgium Mrs. Nieke von den Dijk M Mother of 13
Children Had Many Visions of Mary
1933 Herzele, Belgium Jules de Vuyst, 40 Mary in Light Came to His
Room
1933 Olsene, Belgium Maurice Vandembroeck Saw Mary With Wreath of
Stars
1936 HamSurSambre, Belgium Emelda and Adeline Pietrquin Saw Mary
Surrounded by Angels
1937 Heede, England Four Girls, 12 to 14 Saw Mary and Infant Jesus
in Cemetery
1937 Italy Padre Gino Mary Foretold Sufferings
1937 Heede, Germany Four Girls Intervention of Mary, Coming of
Minor Judgement
1937 Poland Sister Faustina Compassion for Sister's
Sufferings
1938 Belgium Berthe Petit Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of
Mary
1938 Bochum, Gemany Ursula Hibbeln "Snow White Lily of the Most
Holy Trinity"
1938 Kerizinen, Briuany Jeanne Louise Rarnonet Saw Mary Magnificently
Clad in Blue
1938 Bernadine Sister Prayer: "Send Your Holy
Legions"
1938 Kerizinen, France Jeanne-Louise Ramonet Confidence
1938 U.S.A. Nun Requesting Purity & Sactified Family Life
1939 Keffytown, Ireland Villigers Saw Shining Figure Of Mary Above the
Cliffs
1940 Pfaffenhofen, Germany Bafbel Ruess, 16 "Queen of the Rosary"
1940 Orntoncourt Mme. Jeanette Tochet Saw Mary in All Variations
1940 Bodennou, France Theresa Coat Saw Maryand Child in Dark Clouds
1943 Paris, France Mr. & MS. Debord Saw Mary as the Pieta
1943 Grinkaines, Lithuania The Villagers Saw Mary in a Crown of Rays
Above the Church
1943 Italy Maria Valtorta inspired Life of Christ and Mary
1944 Bergarno, Italy Adele Roncalli 8 Visions of Mary Wearing
Precious Crown
1945 Amsterdam 55 apparitions Mary Asking to be Named
Co-Mediatrix
1945 Italy Marcelina Barossa and Adults Several Visions of
Our Lady of Sorrows
1945 Holland Anon. Woman "Embrace All the Peoples"
1946 Pasman, Dalmatia Adults and Children Saw Mary in a Cloud
Crowned With Stars
1946 Espis, France Adults and Children Several years Mary
Appeared on 13th of Month
1946 Vilar-Chao Amelia Nahiridade Had Visions of Mary in
Presence of Thousands
1946 Marienfried, Germany Barbara Reuss Meadiatriz of All Graces; Mary's
Hour is Approaching
1947 Montichiari, Italy Pierina Gilli Rosa Mystica Messages and
Warnings
1947 L'lle Bouchard, France Several Children "I Am Your Mamma in Heaven"
1947 *Tre Fontane, Rome Bruno Comacchiola, 34 Virgin of Revelation
1947 Vorstenbosch, Holland Anton & Berta van der Velden Mary wore Crown
of Lilies
1947 Hungary Clara Laslone Mary Showed a Hea*hng Spring for
the Sick
1947 Varzi, Italy Angela Volpini, 7 Several Visions of Mary in
Rose Colored Dress
1947 Tannhausen, Germany Mrs. T. Paula, 48 Saw Mary wearing Wreath of
White Roses
1947 Pleskop, France 3 Girls Mary Appeared as the Immaculate
Conception
1948 Marta, Italy 4 Children and Others Mary Appeared in a Cave
1948 Lipa, Philippines Novice Teresita Mary often Appeared Wearing
Crown of Roses
1948 Aspang, Austria Men of the Town Saw Mary Holding Rosary
1948 Liart, France Louis Mercier and 11 Others Saw a Silent
Madonna
1948 St. Jeanaux Bois, France Mrs Lucie Manceauu, 23 Saw Mary Briefly
1949 Zo-se, Shanghai Christians Living There Saw Mary Above the
Church During Mass
1949 Fehrbach, Germany Senta Roos Saw Mary Holding Rosary
1949 Lublin, Poland Many People Statue of Mary in Cathedral Wept
Blood for 2 Days
1949 Hersolsbach, Bavaria Over 300 People Many Visions of Mary and Solar
Miracle
1950 Casacicchio, Italy Tina Mallia, 12 Saw Mary in White and Sparkling
Diadem, Sun Miracle
1950 Denver, Colorado Mary Ellen, 15 Mary Wept and Crossed Her Arms
Over Her Breast
1951 Dungny, France Three Workers Saw Mary With the Infant Jesus
1951 Arluno, Italy Luigia Nova, 39 "Virgin of the Poor"
1951 Poland Barbara Klossowna Queen of Angels: Rosary
1952 Gerpinnes, Belgium Rosette Colmet, 7 Mary's Dress Decorated With
Red and Blue Hearts
1952 India Fr. Louis M. Shourish, S.J. Mary Asked
Devotion to Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart
1953 Calais, France 0. Lavoisier, 10 and 50 Others Saw Mary in a
Cave
1953 Bivigliano, Italy Galileo Sacrestani, 49, cook Several Visions
of Madonna on Monte Senario
1954 Pingsdorf, Germany Two Evangelical Housemaids Often Saw Mary in
Halo of Flashing Rays
1954 Calabria, Italy Mother Elena Aiello Warnings, Penance
1954 Windy Gap, N. Ireland Seamnus Quail
1954 Seredne, Ukraine Anna, 20 times Deluge of Fire Coming
1954 Eisenberg, Austria Anna Lex, 6 Saw Mary Gloating in a Gleaming
Sphere
1955 Hungary Anon. Nun Two Hearts: Life Offering
1956 Ohio, U.S.A. Sister Mildred Neuzell Our Lady of America
1955 Eisenberg, Austria Alosia Lex, Mother of 11 Terrible Punishment
is Close
1958 Csecho-Slovaida Matousch, a Forester "Lourdes" of That Land
1958 Turczovka, Czech. Matousch Laschut, 42, forester Repent or Vast
Regions of Earth Will be Destroyed
1961 Garabandal, Spain Four Girls, over 2000 times Prophecies,
Warning and Miracle to Come
1961 Hungary Mrs. Erzsebet Szanto Kindelmann "Flame of Love,
" Immac. Heart of Mary
1962 Skiemonys, Lithuania Young Girl Mary Appeared Weeping
1962 San Damiano, Italy Mama Rosa Quattrini "I Ask for the Rosary,"
Queen of the Universe
1963 Vietnam Rosa Maria, Novice "Merciful Virgin Queen"
1965 Belgium Marguerite "Little Souls" Movement
1966 Porto San Stefano, Italy Enzo Alocci Warnings
1968 Italy Mama Carmela Carabelli Also Many Messages From
Christ
1968 *Zeitun, Egypt Thousands Mary in Images of Light Over Coptic
Cathedral
1969 Cairo, Egypt Mrs. Camille Basaly Mary Gave Holy Oil for
Blessings and Cured Her
1969 Mouseitbe, Lebanon 72 boys, Bishop & Others Mary Appeared 25
Times for 3 Months
1970 Tajique, New Mexico Fr. Molnar Our Lady and St. Michael Appeared
to Episcopal Priest
1971 Kafr Atalla Egypt Many Appeared Over Church of St. Mary
1971 Beirut, Lebanon Hundreds of Schoolchildren Saw Moving Image of
Our Lady
1971 New York State Polish exile "AW" Fatima Message and Renewal
1972 Milan, Italy Fr. Stefano Gobbi Many Locutions; Marian
Movement of Priests
1973 Yugoslavia Julka (Julie) Visions, Messages, Books
1973 Italy Anon. Woman Voices From Heaven Book
1973 *Akita, Japan Sister Agnes Sasagawa Sorrowful Mary,
Chastisement, Statue Wept 101 Times
1974 Vietnam Stephen Ho-Ngoc-Anh Paratrooper Tortured by
Communists
1974 Canada Brother Joseph Francis Weeping Images
1974 Rome, Italy Mother Elena Patriarca Leonardi Visions,
Messages, Book Mary's Truimph
1975 New Oreleans area "CE," Cuban Exile Fatima Mission vs Communism,
Weeping Images
1975 Kenya Muthoni
1975 Binh Loi, Vietnam Stephen Ho Ngoc Anh Message of Fatima and the
Rosary
1976 Caserta, Italy Teresa Musco Stigmatist Having Visions and
Supernatural Happenings
1976 Deir-el-Ahmar, Lebanon Fr. Boutros Mounsef Our Lady Will Protect That
Village: No One Will be Harmed
1976 U.S.A. Stigainist "IB" Fatima; Suffering
1976 Vietnam Theresa Warning
1976 *Cua, Venezuela Many Persons at Betania Farm Live the Faith
1978 Chiang Si, China
1979 Palestine, Beirut Many People Compassion, Consolation
1980 Lebanon, Syria
1980 Achrafie, Beirut Many Saw Mary Over Greek Orthodox Church
1980 El Escorial, Spain Amparo Cuevas "Mother of the Church,"
Chastinement, Darkness
1980 Cuba Young Girl
1980 *Cuapa, Nicaragua Edward Bernardo Martinez Warnings, Rosary,
Make Peace
1981 Thornton, California Manuel Pitta & Others Pray Rosary for World
Peace, Reepentance or War
1981 Near Shangar, China
1981 Medjugorjee, Yugoslavia Six Young Persons, & Locutions Peace,
Conversion, Secrets, Miracle to Come
1981 Kibeho, Africa Six Girls and 1 Boy "Mother of the Word'
1981 Eisenberg, Austria Aloisia Lex Miraculous Grass Cross
1982 Damascus, Syria Maria Al Akhas, Stigmatist Stress for Unity in
the Church, Menaces to Come
1982 Seoul, Korea Rev. McAlear & Liz Brennan Image Of Mary on
Baclony
1983 Shoubra, Egypt Thousands In and around the Church of St.
Damiana
1983 Tel Aviv Hundreds of People Vision of Mary Seen at
Bethlehem
1983 Baguio City, Philippines Many People Heart of Mary on Statue Bled
1983 Penablanca, Chile Miguel Angel Poblete Also Many Messages From
Christ; Stigmatist
1983 Belt Sahour, Bethlehem 300 People Saw Mary's Image on a Wall, Walking
and Moving
1983 St Nicholas, Argentina Galdys, Mother age 48 Request for Prayer and
the Rosary
1984 Guatemala Carmen Prophecies, Warnings
1984 Magomano Many People Virgin Seen in Torches and Lamps
1984 Surrey, England PatriciaCrucified and Triimphant Innocence
1984 Western U.S.A. A Man Our Lady of Sorrows; Basic Fatima
Message
1985 Oliveto Citra Children, Many People Prayer, Rosary
1985 Melleray, Ireland Several Persons Belief in Mary; Peace
1985 Tierra Blanca, Mexico Elba & Zenaia, ages 13 & 11 Read the Bible,
Fast, Make Sacrifices
1985 Cleveland, Ohio Woman, MH, age 48 Our Lady Protectress of the
Faith
1985 NaJu, Korea Julia Repent for Sins of Abortion;
Conversion or Nuclear War
1986 Hurshiv, Ukraine Marina Kizyn and Thousands Prayer and
Conversion or Third World War
1986 Magomano, Kenya
1986 Blue Mts., Australia Paul Bruised Statue
1986 Manila, Philippines Soldiers ."I and the Queen of 'His Land"
1987 Sri Lanka Privileged Soul Messages
1987 Bessbrook N. Ireland Beulah Lynch & Mark Trevor Warnings; Mary Wants
Ideal Parish
1988 Lubbock, Texas Three Adults Rosary, Prayer, Warnings
1988 Mbuye, Uganda Many People Healings, Especially AIDS
Through Spring Water There
1988 Scotttsdale, AZ Fr. John D. Spaulding Hearts are Hard With
Unbelief and Lack of Devotion
1989 Barrett Station Hundreds Healings, Conversion
Please Note:
It is rather difficult to find or accertain the authenticity of this
information. We can only depend on the accuracy of our resource texts and
hopefully the dependable communications and documentation which we receive
from interested individuals. This compendium merely provides us with a list of
possible appearances of Our Lady, and far from being too long, it is
undoubtedly a great deal too sh*o*t*$ in reporting the actual number of times
and places which Our Lady has appeared to Her saints and children. The fact
should be clear that through the grace of God, Our Lady CAN and DOES appear.
To doubt Her messages would be imprudent.
This list is on a computer and additions and deletions can easily be
made. Comments or input on any of these or other apparitions would be greatly
appreciated by the 101 Foundation, P.O. Box 151, Asbury, NJ 08802-0151.
Thank you.
God Bless
Dick
--
*******************************
Dick Corrigan
e-mail: di...@hpwais2.wal.hp.com
*******************************
Alfred S. Chavez
>in this century and what were her messages. Does anyone have any citations
>that they can share with me. Thanks in advance. Please pray the rosary
>for peace.
I don't know the total number, but there are a large number of "approved"
apparitions (ie, where the local bishop declares some event to be free of
error and worthy of private belief), probably uncountable unapproved (and
unprovable) ones, and many that have been condemned outright (such as the
alleged Bayside N.Y. apparitions).
A book entitled "The Final Hour" by Michael Brown is available from the
Reihle Foundation, P.O. Box 7, Milford, OH 45150 (paper, 344pp. $11.50).
It addresses the most famous of the last century and a half's apparitions
beginning, I think, with La Sallette, France.
His Peace,
Fred Chavez
J. J. Ursic
>I want to know how many times that the Holy Mother has visited our planet
>in this century and what were her messages.
From what I understand, there aren't any that we are required to believe
happened. So any purported messages would carry the same weight. -J.J.
Alfred S. Chavez
J.J. raises an interesting question in my mind. Although no one is required
to believe that any Marian apparition has occurred, are Catholics likewise
free to believe that canonized saints are not necessarily in heaven?
What I'm driving at is that many canonized saints (e.g., St. Bernadette
Soubirous, the seer at Lourdes) have testified clearly and not recanted,
that the events they reported were true, and if they said these things and
were still canonized, isn't there at least a very strong indication from
the Church that the events cannot simply be written off? Would the Church
canonize a potential liar?
His Peace,
Fred Chavez
Paul Halsall
named "Co-Mediatrix".
Co-Mediatrix with who?
Paul Halsall
hal...@murray.fordham.edu
Paul Halsall
>Although no one is required
>to believe that any Marian apparition has occurred, are Catholics likewise
>free to believe that canonized saints are not necessarily in heaven?
>What I'm driving at is that many canonized saints (e.g., St. Bernadette
>Soubirous, the seer at Lourdes) have testified clearly and not recanted,
>that the events they reported were true, and if they said these things and
>were still canonized, isn't there at least a very strong indication from
>the Church that the events cannot simply be written off? Would the Church
>canonize a potential liar?
Catholics are not required to believe that the majority of
saints are in heaven, or even saints, as most of them have
not been canonised. The only ones canonised in a way that
requires assent are those done by the popes, and that is
not a large number [less than a thousand I think - Woodward in
_Making Saints_ has the exact figures]. But the canonisation
of saints is now an exercise in infallibility. This infallibility
does not seem to extend to beati.
St. Bernardette was not canonised for her visions [and most other
visionaries have not been either], she was canonised for her
well-documented and heroic virtue. But this implies not requirement
that we accept Lourdes.
Why? Because it is not a case of lying or telling the truth: Bernardette
clearly believed that she was telling the truth. But what
actually happened is open to dispute by Catholics [not me wrt to
Lourdes at least].
Paul Halsall
hal...@murray.fordham.edu
Alfred S. Chavez
>In 1945 the list said, Mary appeared in Amsterdam asking to be
>named "Co-Mediatrix".
>
>Co-Mediatrix with who?
With Jesus Christ, who else? Note she is not asking to be Prime Mediatrix
or equal mediatrix to Christ. We can be mediators as well, but Mary is
Co-Mediatrix par excellence.
His Peace,
Fred Chavez
Paul Halsall
thought one of her titles was "Mediatrix of All Graces".
Now, in response to Craig, Are you sure that you want to
cast Jesus as "mediator". I know this is biblical, but surely
Jesus is also "originator" of all Grace?
Paul Halsall
hal...@murray.fordham.edu
D. Andrew Byler
>On Sep 16 Alfred Chavez
>
>>Although no one is required
>>to believe that any Marian apparition has occurred, are Catholics likewise
>>free to believe that canonized saints are not necessarily in heaven?
>>What I'm driving at is that many canonized saints (e.g., St. Bernadette
>>Soubirous, the seer at Lourdes) have testified clearly and not recanted,
>>that the events they reported were true, and if they said these things and
>>were still canonized, isn't there at least a very strong indication from
>>the Church that the events cannot simply be written off? Would the Church
>>canonize a potential liar?
>
>Catholics are not required to believe that the majority of
>saints are in heaven, or even saints, as most of them have
>not been canonised. The only ones canonised in a way that
>requires assent are those done by the popes, and that is
>not a large number [less than a thousand I think - Woodward in
>_Making Saints_ has the exact figures]. But the canonisation
>of saints is now an exercise in infallibility. This infallibility
>does not seem to extend to beati.
Oh? Catholics are required to believe that those who are called Saints
are really in heaven. Although the process was not as formal in the
time of SAINT Augustine and SAINT Cyprian, and others, we have
aboslutely no reason to doubt the Church's judgement from that period.
>St. Bernardette was not canonised for her visions [and most other
>visionaries have not been either], she was canonised for her
>well-documented and heroic virtue. But this implies not requirement
>that we accept Lourdes.
>
>Why? Because it is not a case of lying or telling the truth: Bernardette
>clearly believed that she was telling the truth. But what
>actually happened is open to dispute by Catholics [not me wrt to
>Lourdes at least].
Is it? While no one is required to believe that whathappened at
Lourdes, Fatima, etc. is true, it would certainly be erroneous to
steadfatly maintain that position in the face of large amounts of
evidence.
Andy Byler
David Wagle
> >Why? Because it is not a case of lying or telling the truth: Bernardette
> >clearly believed that she was telling the truth. But what
> >actually happened is open to dispute by Catholics [not me wrt to
> >Lourdes at least].
>
> Is it? While no one is required to believe that whathappened at
> Lourdes, Fatima, etc. is true, it would certainly be erroneous to
> steadfatly maintain that position in the face of large amounts of
> evidence.
>
> Andy Byler
The point remains, no Saint has ever been proclaimed to be free of Sin,
except, of course, for the Virgin and our Saviour. In fact, I believe
that it is the churches position that "there is none that is free from
sin, no not one." is in fact a true statement with the two afformentioned
exceptions. Why then insist that a Saint have never lied through the
maintaning of a false belief. Even to call them a liar, you would have
to assert that they are making a statement they BELIEVE to be false -
not just that they are making a false statement. Surely you see the
difference.
Peace,
Dave
--
Mike Melendez
From: "D. Andrew Byler" <db...@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>
. . .
Is it? While no one is required to believe that whathappened at
Lourdes, Fatima, etc. is true, it would certainly be erroneous to
steadfatly maintain that position in the face of large amounts of
evidence.
Andy Byler
Andy,
There is a position between true and false that I believe the Roman
Catholic faith allows us to take. It is simply that we don't know. I
don't know what is happening at Medjugore. I think I know what is
happening in Bayside, NY (sp?).
Mike Melendez
mark ashley
The following is a list of better known apparitions. Rue-du-Bac, La Sallette,
Lourdes, Fatima, Beauraing, Banneaux, Betania (as far as I know) are
approved by the Catholic Church. The years indicated are the years
that the apparitions started. The common messages are prayer, fasting,
conversion (i.e. return to God; not necessarily convert to RC), and penance.
1830 Rue-du-Bac, France Catherine Laboure (saint)
1846 La Sallette, France Melanie Calvat & Maximin Giraud
1858 Lourdes, France Bernadette Soubirous (saint)
1879 Knock, Ireland 15 people
1904 Poland Fr. Maximilian Kolbe
1917 Fatima, Portugal Lucia, Francisco, & Jacinta
1918 San Giovanni, Italy Padre Pio (saint)
1920 Verdun, Quebec, Canada Emma Blanche Curotte
1925 Tuy, Spain Sister Lucia (of Fatima)
1932 Beauraing, Belgium Five children from Voisin &
Degeimbre
1933 Banneaux, Belgium Mariette Beco
1937 Poland Sister Faustina (case for
beatification started in 1978)
1945 Amsterdam, Holland Ida
1947 Montichiari, Italy Pierina Gilli
1947 Tre Fontane, Rome Bruno Cornacchiola
1948 Lipa, Philippines Novice Teresita
1952 India Fr. Louis Shouriah, S.J.
1954 Seredne, Ukraine Anna
1954 Ohio, USA Sister Mildred Neuzil
1961 Garabandal, Spain Conchita, Mari Loli, Jacinta, &
mari Cruz
1964 San Damiano, Italy Mama Rosa Quattrini
1968 Italy Mama Carmela Carabelli
1968 Zeitun, Egypt Thousands of people
1970 Vladimir prison, Russia Josyp Terelya
1972 Milan, Italy Fr. Stefano Gobbi
1973 Akita, Japan Sister Agnes Sasagawa
1974 Binh Loi, Vietnam Stephen Ho Ngoc Ahn
1976 Betania, Venezuela Maria Esperanza & others
1980 El Escorial, Spain Amparo Cuevas
1980 Cuapa, Nicaragua Edward Bernardo Martinez
1981 Medjugorje, Yugoslavia Six young people
1981 Kibeho, Rwanda, Africa Seven young people
1982 Damascus, Syria Mirna Nazour
1983 San Nicolas, Argentina Gladys Quiroga de Motta
1985 Ballinspittle, Ireland Two O'Mahony women
1985 Carns Grotto, Ireland Four girls
1985 Oliveto Citra, Italy Children & many people
1985 Melleray Grotto, Ireland Several people
1985 Naju, Korea Julia Kim
1985 Switzerland Vassula Ryden
1987 Terra Blanca, Mexico Three children
1987 Bessbrook, N. Ireland Beulah Lynch & Mark Trenor
1987 Ukraine Josyp Terelya, Maria Kizyn &
thousands of people
1987 Ichigeela, Ireland Sally Ann & Judy Considine
1987 Ecuador Patricia Talbott
1988 Cortnadreha, Ireland Christine Gallagher
1988 Phoenix, AZ, USA Estela Ruiz
1988 Scottsdale, AZ, USA Nine young people
1989 Canada Zdenko "Jim" Singer
1990 Denver, CO, USA Theresa Lopez
1990 Conyers, GA, USA Nancy Fowler
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ash...@netcom.com |
San Jose, CA |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Halsall
last appearance, and then go one appearing in new places all over
the world?
Is this one of the effects of the interrelationship of the
eternal world where Our lady dwells and the temporal world in
which we labour?
Paul Halsall
hal...@murray.fordham.edu
MVAN...@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu
approved.
Monica Van Ness
Alfred S. Chavez
>How can the Virgin Mary tell the people at Medugorje that that is her
>last appearance, and then go one appearing in new places all over
>the world?
>
>Is this one of the effects of the interrelationship of the
>eternal world where Our lady dwells and the temporal world in
>which we labour?
Where's the inconsistency (ie, in our linear temporal thinking)?
As long as all of the others end before Medjugorje ends, what they
understand her to have said will be proven accurate.
His Peace,
Fred Chavez
Joseph Scott Berg
> Paul Halsall writes:
>
> >On Sep 16 Alfred Chavez
> >
> >>Although no one is required
> >>to believe that any Marian apparition has occurred, are Catholics likewise
> >>free to believe that canonized saints are not necessarily in heaven?
> >>What I'm driving at is that many canonized saints (e.g., St. Bernadette
> >>Soubirous, the seer at Lourdes) have testified clearly and not recanted,
> >>that the events they reported were true, and if they said these things and
> >>were still canonized, isn't there at least a very strong indication from
> >>the Church that the events cannot simply be written off? Would the Church
> >>canonize a potential liar?
> >
> >Catholics are not required to believe that the majority of
> >saints are in heaven, or even saints, as most of them have
> >not been canonised. The only ones canonised in a way that
> >requires assent are those done by the popes, and that is
> >not a large number [less than a thousand I think - Woodward in
> >_Making Saints_ has the exact figures]. But the canonisation
> >of saints is now an exercise in infallibility. This infallibility
> >does not seem to extend to beati.
>
> Oh? Catholics are required to believe that those who are called Saints
> are really in heaven. Although the process was not as formal in the
> time of SAINT Augustine and SAINT Cyprian, and others, we have
> aboslutely no reason to doubt the Church's judgement from that period.
This assertion that Catholics are REQUIRED to believe that "Saints"
are really in heaven (or those specifically said to be by the Pope)
still surprises me. I'd appreciate it if someone could provide an
authoritative reference and possibly a quote from said reference to
back this up. Thanks.
<deletions>
Peace and God bless
-Scott Berg
--
J. Scott Berg Real mail: Varian Physics; Stanford CA 94305-4060
email: AL...@slac.stanford.edu
phone: (415) 926-4732 (w) (415) 326-2631 (h)
REL...@vtvm1.bitnet
mark ashley
>Paul Halsall asks:
>>How can the Virgin Mary tell the people at Medugorje that that is her
>>last appearance, and then go one appearing in new places all over
>>the world?
>>
>As long as all of the others end before Medjugorje ends, what they
>understand her to have said will be proven accurate.
Actually the way she said something to the effect that
she would no longer appear after Medjugorje. And I take that to
mean that as long as she appears in Medjugorje, we can expect
more apparitions in other places.
Remember the messages of Garabandal, too. Everything will happen
during Conchita's lifetime. And she's way past middle age, now.
And JP2 is the last Pope before things start to happen (no -
it won't be the end of the world). And he's been rather weak,
lately. I guess we'll find out soon.
MVAN...@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu
by Fr. Benedict Groeschel, C.F.R.
"It is important to keep clearly in mind that private revelations have no
significance apart from the public revelation of Sacred Scripture,
interpreted by the traditional teaching of the Church...
"Do you want to know the certain and direct revelation of God? Pick up a
Bible and read it!...
"One may then legitimately ask: Why do we have private revelations at all?
the obvious reply: "Ask God." True revelations, public or private, are
never contrived or planned by human beings. They happen as the result of
causes beyond human control or knowledge. Public revelation is given to
the people of God in Scripture and is addressed to all for all times.
It must be accepted and believed...
"The end of public revelation does not at all mean that God no longer
reveals himself to his childre. He continues to do so, but now
indirectly or in what we call private revelations, as well as by other
means of his Divine Providence...
"For centuries it has been a clear papal teaching that even a
canonized saint who has reported a private revelation which has been
approved by the Church for acceptance by the faithful may have introduced
some personal element that is subject to error or distortion. This fact
is not sufficiently known...The converse is also true, namely, that a
because a visionary may haved erred in the report of a revelatio, one
cannot conclude that this person has not received a special grace. He or
she may have distorted the revelation unconsciously. It is also true that
if visionaries proclaim prophecy which turns out to be correct, one
cannot by that fact alone assume that they received the revelation from
God. They may, in fact, have gained the knowledge in some other way...
"When I am asked if I believe in a particular private revelation (even my favori
te, Lourdes), I always reply that I beleive in the Catholic Christian Faith
and I THINK that Lourdes is a special gift of God to us all...It is quite
possible, even in a revelation which has received Church approval, that one
can be misled. Consequently, according to Benedict XIV, we can give these
revelations only prudent acceptance as probable...
"How can there be error?...How can a vision from God be wrong? It cannot.
But the recipient of the vision can make mistakes. No divine revelation
is immediately received by a visionary. It is filtered through the
perceptive faculties of the human who receives it..."
Monica Van Ness
mvan...@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu
Grant Strasser
of predestination? Where does the church stand on that one?
************************************************************
* Grant Strasser GSTR...@GC1.GEORCOLL.ON.CA *
* Computer Services PH. (705) 722-5106 *
* Georgian College A.A.T. FAX (705) 722-5123 *
* Barrie, Ontario *
* L4M 3X9 *
************************************************************
Dave Bernard
>In article <930917012...@umsa.umd.edu> "Alfred S. Chavez" <ach...@UMSA.UMD.EDU> writes:
>>Paul Halsall asks:
>>>How can the Virgin Mary tell the people at Medugorje that that is her
>>>last appearance, and then go one appearing in new places all over
>>>the world?
>>>
>>Where's the inconsistency (ie, in our linear temporal thinking)?
>>As long as all of the others end before Medjugorje ends, what they
>>understand her to have said will be proven accurate.
>
>Actually the way she said something to the effect that
>she would no longer appear after Medjugorje. And I take that to
>mean that as long as she appears in Medjugorje, we can expect
>more apparitions in other places.
>
be appearing AT Medjugorge, and that was some time ago.
For that matter, is she even appearing at Medjugorge anymore,
or did she hotfoot it for Germany when some of her ~30-yr old little
children emigrated?
(While on the subject, here's a question I've often asked, but
never got a real reply on: What do the seers of Medjugorge do
for a living?)
Ed Sayre
> In article <cga9Boy00...@andrew.cmu.edu> "D. Andrew Byler"
[A lot of Saintly stuff deleted]
> This assertion that Catholics are REQUIRED to believe that "Saints"
> are really in heaven (or those specifically said to be by the Pope)
> still surprises me. I'd appreciate it if someone could provide an
> authoritative reference and possibly a quote from said reference to
> back this up. Thanks.
>
> <deletions>
>
Hmmm....well, we are required to believe in the communion of saints, no?
Perhaps looking this up in a cathechism might yield something.
Peace,
Ed
Joseph Scott Berg
> On Thu, 16 Sep 1993, Joseph Scott Berg wrote:
>
> > In article <cga9Boy00...@andrew.cmu.edu> "D. Andrew Byler"
>
> [A lot of Saintly stuff deleted]
>
> > This assertion that Catholics are REQUIRED to believe that "Saints"
> > are really in heaven (or those specifically said to be by the Pope)
> > still surprises me. I'd appreciate it if someone could provide an
> > authoritative reference and possibly a quote from said reference to
> > back this up. Thanks.
> >
> > <deletions>
> >
> Hmmm....well, we are required to believe in the communion of saints, no?
Yes; perhaps I wasn't clear here: I'm referring to the statment that
was made that we are required to believe that certain individuals are
in heaven, or, equivalently, that when the Pope canonizes a saint,
that statment is "infallible."
Christopher Monsour
>On Sep 16 Alfred Chavez
>
>>Although no one is required
>>to believe that any Marian apparition has occurred, are Catholics likewise
>>free to believe that canonized saints are not necessarily in heaven?
>>What I'm driving at is that many canonized saints (e.g., St. Bernadette
>>Soubirous, the seer at Lourdes) have testified clearly and not recanted,
>>that the events they reported were true, and if they said these things and
>>were still canonized, isn't there at least a very strong indication from
>>the Church that the events cannot simply be written off? Would the Church
>>canonize a potential liar?
>
>Catholics are not required to believe that the majority of
>saints are in heaven, or even saints, as most of them have
>not been canonised. The only ones canonised in a way that
>requires assent are those done by the popes, and that is
>not a large number [less than a thousand I think - Woodward in
>_Making Saints_ has the exact figures]. But the canonisation
>of saints is now an exercise in infallibility. This infallibility
>does not seem to extend to beati.
But what about the saints mentioned in the Roman Canon? Surely ordinary
infallibility applies in that case?
Sincerely,
Christopher J. Monsour
Christopher Monsour
>Paul Halsall writes:
>
>>On Sep 16 Alfred Chavez
>>
>>>Although no one is required
>>>to believe that any Marian apparition has occurred, are Catholics likewise
>>>free to believe that canonized saints are not necessarily in heaven?
>>>What I'm driving at is that many canonized saints (e.g., St. Bernadette
>>>Soubirous, the seer at Lourdes) have testified clearly and not recanted,
>>>that the events they reported were true, and if they said these things and
>>>were still canonized, isn't there at least a very strong indication from
>>>the Church that the events cannot simply be written off? Would the Church
>>>canonize a potential liar?
>>
>>Catholics are not required to believe that the majority of
>>saints are in heaven, or even saints, as most of them have
>>not been canonised. The only ones canonised in a way that
>>requires assent are those done by the popes, and that is
>>not a large number [less than a thousand I think - Woodward in
>>_Making Saints_ has the exact figures]. But the canonisation
>>of saints is now an exercise in infallibility. This infallibility
>>does not seem to extend to beati.
>
>Oh? Catholics are required to believe that those who are called Saints
>are really in heaven. Although the process was not as formal in the
>time of SAINT Augustine and SAINT Cyprian, and others, we have
>aboslutely no reason to doubt the Church's judgement from that period.
How about St. Boethius? Or St. Charlesmagne? Is one required to believe
they are in heaven?
>>St. Bernardette was not canonised for her visions [and most other
>>visionaries have not been either], she was canonised for her
>>well-documented and heroic virtue. But this implies not requirement
>>that we accept Lourdes.
>>
>>Why? Because it is not a case of lying or telling the truth: Bernardette
>>clearly believed that she was telling the truth. But what
>>actually happened is open to dispute by Catholics [not me wrt to
>>Lourdes at least].
>
>Is it? While no one is required to believe that whathappened at
>Lourdes, Fatima, etc. is true, it would certainly be erroneous to
>steadfatly maintain that position in the face of large amounts of
>evidence.
What large amounts of evidence?
My point is that, while I am fairly certain that I might find large amounts
of evidence in support of these apparitions if I were to investigate,
why should I investigate?
Also, as there is no requirement that we accept these apparitions, they are
not matters of faith (and clearly are not matters of morals), so the Church
does not infallibly affirm them by her approval.
I'd rather pray the Rosary than worry about whether Mary has appeared at all
those places on that huge list posted recently.
Sincerely,
Christopher J. Monsour
P.S. I would say that one CANNOT believe that Mary appeared at Fatima IN THE
SAME WAY that one believes in the Assumption. The latter belief is by
supernatural faith; the former is not.
P.P.S. And, yes, I do believe that Mary appeared at Fatima, but it's more
like the way I believe that a Carbon atom has 6 protons--by natural faith.
(I was going to say it's more like the way I believe that a Carbon atom
has mass 12 amu, but then I remembered that's the definition of amu--or once
was, anyway.)
Paul Halsall
writes
>>Catholics are not required to believe that the majority of
>>saints are in heaven, or even saints, as most of them have
>>not been canonised. The only ones canonised in a way that
>>requires assent are those done by the popes, and that is
>>not a large number [less than a thousand I think - Woodward in
>>_Making Saints_ has the exact figures]. But the canonisation
>>of saints is now an exercise in infallibility. This infallibility
>>does not seem to extend to beati.
>But what about the saints mentioned in the Roman Canon? Surely ordinary
>infallibility applies in that case?
Just to expand a bit.
Since the papacy reserved the right to canonisations [1234] there have
been less that 300 canonisations [sometimes of multiple persons].
Woodward states that about 400 people have been canonised by the pope
although some 10,000 saints with cults have been identified. John Paul II has
canonised more persons than any other pope [122 in 1988 alone!]. No-one
says that beatifications are inifallible, but there has been dispute
about whether canonisations are. Canon lawyers have tended to deny
it, theologians to affirm it [Woordward 68], but there has been no Church
statement that canonisations are infallible [122]. The use of the
phrase "We solemnly declare and define that X is a saint", the same
as the formula used for doctrinal definitions, is used to argue that
canonisations are infallible. Fr. Gumpel of the Congregation for the
causes of saints says that infallibility, if it applies, applies
ONLY to those who were canonised "after all due scientific investigations
as was the custom after 1588" [124]. Thus the first saint listed in the
INDEX OF THE STATUS OF CAUSES is not Stephen but a Domincan called
Hyacinth who dies in 1257, but was canonised in 1594.
This does not mean people like the apostles or St. Francis are not
saints, it just means that they are not guarenteed by papal infallibility.
This comment would seem to apply to the saints of the Roman Canon
as well. Ordinary infallibility - if by that you mean the pios practice
of the Church - is not a guarentee at all: the cult of Philomena
was promoted widely, but turned out to be the result of someone
putting a jigswa puzzle together wrongly!
Paul Halsall
hal...@murray.fordham.edu
Refs: K. Woodward. _Making Saints_