Vst Doubler

[Kenneth]

Itwould be really nice to add some kind of stereo doubler effect pedal, like the Mimiq Doubler from TC Electronics; especially to use with different signal paths, like using two amps and cabs to get a really nice stereo sound.

I agree the mimic does more than time based modeller, however, the Mimiq has a serious glitch in that sometimes the doubling algorithm goes in and out of phase and sometimes the stereo sound collapses when both channels use the same algorithm. I do like the Mimiq idea, but in practice it seriously needs some improvements to do what it is meant to do IMHO.

I believe there is an effect called the Double Take, with some neat parameters. I dont use it as it sounds phasey or weird when in mono, Stereo it sounds good, but the Mimiq is notably better at what it does from the reviews i've read.

Ah, thanks both. Totally missed that when going through a pdf list as I was looking at the 'Real World' list on the right for Keely or Mimiq but there it is as a Line 6 original. I'll give it a try. I'm hoping it doesn't have that chorusey sound I've heard with the Keeley. Maybe that's the 'phasey' sound you describe. I'll be sure to try it in stereo.

Another option is to use the Simple Pitch shift. Only change the pitch by 5-15 cents. I like 6.9 cents. Then change the delay to 20-30 ms. Mix to 100% if you put it to one side and want a stereo image. In my opinion, this sounds better than Double Take but still not quite as good as the Mimiq.

One of the parts of the Mimiq's secret sauce for getting things to sound more like a real double track, is I believe a small pitch shift with a randomizing function that constantly modifies how many cents the pitch changes by. I'm wondering if that is essentially what the 'Slop' setting does on the Helix's "Double Take". If so I wouldn't mind seeing the 'Slop' parameter make its way into the harmonizer/pitch shifters as well. Tends to give them a more natural organic sound.

Well, coincidentally, I just happen to have been messing around with the "Double Take" block and that parameter is still named "Slop" in v.2.92.0.

Maybe it will be changed in a future update, although it isn't the sort of block that I would use a lot, but I'm happy to know that it's there for a little odd modulation. ;-)

Sorry. I was refering to the actual pedal (Mimiq) not the Helix's Double take. I see the Mimiq wasn't being directly discussed. I still think it has to do with randomly changing a delay in mseconds although it may have some modulation thrown in has well. I've used it once and was actually impressed by it (The Helix's). Much better than what the Vetta amp had (I can't remember the name.)

Whether its time delay or pitch modulation or both, throw in a little randomized variation on stacked parts for vocals or guitars and things start sounding more like actual humans singing or playing together.

The Mimiq pedal appears to vary both the pitch and delay(at least according to the review in the link below). I thought about mentioning varying delay as well as pitch in my original post but thought I would keep things simple. I should have know better around here :-)

Haven't played with the Helix's Double Take 'Slop' setting enough to know whether it handles both delay and pitch? A randomizing algorithm, be it on delay and/or pitch can really help when stacking parts, vocals or guitar. When two duplicated parts get too tight they can sound more artificial and I think it's worthy of note that Line 6 included a 'Slop' feature although I have no idea how they implemented it or if it includes randomizing. Since the 'Slop' feature is already on one Helix effect, maybe it can migrate over to a couple of others. If not there's my own internal 'Slop' setting and its always available :-)

I think people normally think of heavier, layered rhythm guitars when they think of these doubler effects, but I've had surprisingly good luck with it on cleaner parts. All the rhythm parts on this song, for example, were made using the Double Take. I like how it still sounds like a single guitar part, it kind of pushes it out to the far left and right sides.

I think this is the best 'Mimiq' review I have found. I ended up getting one and am using it with two of my amps this weekend playing out, as I am not ready to 'go live' with my Helix yet. I've used a two-amp setup for some time and this really added more 'fullness'. I'm using it with Dry and Effect maxed and Tightness set to 12 o'clock (I don't play really tight/metal so I can get away with more 'openness').

The guy in this review seems to really know his stuff and analyzed the files to see what they are doing. It is definitely randomizing timing, pitch and possibly even attack/volume some. He speaks to the difference in using a delay for this timing effect vs. a Mimiq, and that the ear gets attuned to the delay because it is consistent. Makes sense. Hmm, what about using the 'Double Take' in Helix and trying the 'Leslie' and experimenting with settings? Could that add some 'randomness'?

I own a Mimiq and Helix. The Mimiq is fantastic, but the Double Take in Helix seems to be just about as good in my opinion. Definitely not worth using WITH the Helix rather than Double Take unless you need to free up DSP and still have a block to run the effects loop with. I use the Mimiq with my HD500x though.

Both sound phasey in mono simply due to what they do. Both can sound like they "jump around" a little in mono. They both automatically change up the delay time which can shift the comb filtering audibly. I haven't used the Mimiq in a while, but I feel like it was a bit better at detecting transients to switch delay settings with, so it sounds a bit more natural. That said, teh difference is pretty minimal.

Doubles

The main "Doubles" knob controls the number of double tracks into the mix from one to four generated voices, and in the stereo versions, the dry signal is assigned to a specified pan location. (Dry signal is underlined)

1 = Left and Right

2 = Left, Center, Right

3 = Left, Left, Right, Right

4 = Left, Left, Center, Right, Right

Note: as each extra voice is added, there is a post-effect level compensation such that the overall dB of the remains about uniform. You can make up this change with the two output knobs if you want the same level hitting whatever you send the doubled tracks in to. Also since these are hard pans, you an also use the "stereo width" block to control how wide this effect is in the stereo field.

Slop

The Slop knob controls the amount of the slight variations in timing and pitch you would hear from each of the doubled voices. The variations are what we like to call "Defined Randomness" as this amount and timing is directly coupled with the dynamics of the original part. This knob controls the heart of this effect, as it will define the voices from tight and refined at low settings and all the way to(too?) wild and dynamic at max. With this knob you can set such that a softer touch there isn't much change to the original performance, but the harder you dig in, the more the doubled voices' strings stretch, slap around, and become widely de-correlated.

Sensitivity

This knob controls the sensitivity of the slop feature. The lower this parameter is set there will be less dynamic behavior from the voices. This can be viewed more or less like a threshold or input gain of a compressor, but specifically for the slop's detection algorithm.

Source (Stereo only)

The Double take can have a true stereo path. This parameter determines how the input signal is processed by the effect.

Mono: Input will be summed to mono then processed by the Double Take

True Stereo: Each side will be sent as a true stereo path, and each extra voice will be sent to the side of the source pan.

Left Only: Only the left input will be sent into the Double Take

Right Only: Only the right input will be sent into the Double Take

Dry and Wet Levels

Instead of a This controls the level of the original dry signal as it passes through the effect. Note the Dry Level Location above.

Note: In "True Stereo" mode, the dry signal for the right will only be used for the doubles and will not pass through the effect. In "Right Only" mode, the Right channel will be sent to the left or center according to the Doubles parameter.

The Maven 2XM Optical Doubler is a small, lightweight solution to double the magnification of your Maven B and S Series optics. The Optical Doubler threads onto 1 of 3 adapter rings and fits over the ocular eyepeice of your B.1, B1.2, B.2, B.4, B.5, B.6 binocular and S.1A and S.1S spotting scope. Made from aluminum frame and high grade glass, this doubler provides the perfect solution to your ultra-light setup.

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