Anti-biotics and virus infections
Modem
A_>Something I never though of before, why is the influenza virus treated with
A_>anti-biotics? Is this because bacteria feed off the waste products produced
A_>by virii or what? Just curious.
A_>--
A_> Alexander Baron,
A_> E-Mail A_B...@ABaron.Demon.Co.UK
A_>"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
A_>the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy
The reason I have heard is that it suppresses any bacteria present and
allows the body's imune system to work full time fighting the virus.
They put (or used-to) large amoounts of antibiotics is animal feed for
similar reasons.
spotsnall
Mo...@sciboard.spd.louisville.edu says...
>
>
>
>A_>"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
>A_>the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy
>
>
>The reason I have heard is that it suppresses any bacteria present and
>allows the body's imune system to work full time fighting the virus.
>They put (or used-to) large amoounts of antibiotics is animal feed for
>similar reasons.
Nice try but no award. Sometimes folks with severe flu are treated with
antimicrobials because doing so will protect against bacterial pneumonia; also
there may be concomitant bacterial infections in sites such as the middle ear
or throat. So the antibiotics are not used to treat the flu but rather to
treat secondary bacterial infections or to prevent secondary
bacterial infections.
WHile it is true that antimicrobials are used in animal feed, this practice
has nothing to do with allowing the body's immune system to work.
In some animals, particularly ruminants, (chickens too) antimicrobials act as
"growth
promotors" and the exact mechanism is complex because the microbiology of
the rumen and of the cecum/colon are complex.
Another reason antimicrobials are used in animal feed is to protect newborn
and young animals from certain specific infectious agents: eg. coccidia
(a protozoan) so cocidiostats are added to chicken feed.
Some fowl e.g. turkeys tend to be susceptible to salmonellosis; and so on.
A complete explanation of the practices and issues you raised would take
several text books.
Forget the knee jerk quick answer that is usually wrong.
David Johnston
Further, the hows and whys of antibiotics in feed is in no way
complex.
D Johnston, Ph.D.
dm...@bellsouth.net
On 7 Jan 2000 15:43:17 GMT, kat...@tamu.edu (spotsnall) wrote:
>Nice try but no award. Sometimes folks with severe flu are treated with
>antimicrobials because doing so will protect against bacterial pneumonia; also
>there may be concomitant bacterial infections in sites such as the middle ear
>or throat. So the antibiotics are not used to treat the flu but rather to
>treat secondary bacterial infections or to prevent secondary
>bacterial infections.
>
>WHile it is true that antimicrobials are used in animal feed, this practice
>has nothing to do with allowing the body's immune system to work.
>
>In some animals, particularly ruminants, (chickens too) antimicrobials act as
>"growth
>promotors" and the exact mechanism is complex because the microbiology of
>the rumen and of the cecum/colon are complex.
>
>Another reason antimicrobials are used in animal feed is to protect newborn
>and young animals from certain specific infectious agents: eg. coccidia
>(a protozoan) so cocidiostats are added to chicken feed.
>
>Some fowl e.g. turkeys tend to be susceptible to salmonellosis; and so on.
>
>A complete explanation of the practices and issues you raised would take
>several text books.
>
>Forget the knee jerk quick answer that is usually wrong.
>
David
dm...@bellsouth.net
spotsnall
says...
>
>A bit much arrogance for answering a simple question.
>
>Further, the hows and whys of antibiotics in feed is in no way
>complex.
>
>D Johnston, Ph.D.
>dm...@bellsouth.net
>
>
I didn't know bell south was into animal feed and growth projects.
Implanted cell phones maybe?
David Johnston
>The question was simple but that does not mean there is a simple answer.
>
> I didn't know bell south was into animal feed and growth projects.
>
>Implanted cell phones maybe?
>
LOL, bellsouth is the ISP.
David Johnston, Ph.D.
Chief Scientific Officer
LCA
Drug Development Laboratory Services
David Johnston
dm...@bellsouth.net
spotsnall
says...
>
>David Johnston, Ph.D.
>Chief Scientific Officer
>LCA
>Drug Development Laboratory Services
>
>
O.K., my mistake about Bell South.
So what is LCA? Where are you located? What does the company do? Why do you
think
you think the antibitics issue in animal feed is "simple."
THe growth promoting effects of antibiotics to my knowledge are not simple
matters. SO, if I am wrong, please provide a short statement of how I am
wrong or why you think I am wrong.
.
I'm serious here. I'm not trying to razz you or cause a flame war or anything
like that at all.
My workunit is embarking on several projects related to antimicrobial
resistance issues and animal feed issues. We are also concerned with
probiotics and their ability to both promote growth and to limit establishment
of pathogens in food animals.
So, while it might at first glance appear (seeing that we somehow got off
on the wrong foot) that we don't agree on things, I suspect we probably
do.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
David Johnston
Laboratory Corporation of America.
LabCorp Clinical Trials Division provides biomedical laboratory
testing services for all phases of drug development, from safety
testing to molecular virology prognostics to viral genotyping.
My comment was in relation to the original post... which was why
clinicians often treat influenza with antibiotics. Someone had
replied with an honest effort, albeit wrong, speculating about the use
of antibiotics in animal feeds...
to which you replied with an unnecessarily obnoxious discourse on the
complexity of the intestinal biology of feed animals.
IMO, the response can match the query, regardless of how brilliant you
are. A suitable answer may have been, "The antibiotics are used as
chemoprophylaxis to prevent otitis media or bacterial sinusitis, which
are common secondary infections often seen with the flu.
As for animal feed, there are many uses of antimicrobials in feed, not
the least of which is enriching populations of desired commensals,
which can also be achieved by several probiotic strategies."
Two sentences that answer the question without bashing the questioner.
It's not in anyone's best interest to intimidate a student asking a
question. In several posts, I've seen you go out of your way to
chastise a poster when you could have more easily answered the
question with fewer words.
Rather than putting yourself on a pedestal, why not make use of your
knowledge in a positive manner? I find it hard to believe that you
yourself have always been so well informed. Chances are, you got help
from someone like myself rather than being discouraged by someone like
yourself during your education.
Best wishes,
David M. Johnston, Ph.D.
Chief Scientific Officer
LabCorp Clinical Trials
joh...@labcorp.com
On 11 Jan 2000 16:32:23 GMT, kat...@tamu.edu (spotsnall) wrote:
>
>O.K., my mistake about Bell South.
>
> So what is LCA? Where are you located? What does the company do? Why do you
>think
>you think the antibitics issue in animal feed is "simple."
>
>THe growth promoting effects of antibiotics to my knowledge are not simple
>matters. SO, if I am wrong, please provide a short statement of how I am
>wrong or why you think I am wrong.
>.
>I'm serious here. I'm not trying to razz you or cause a flame war or anything
>like that at all.
>
>My workunit is embarking on several projects related to antimicrobial
>resistance issues and animal feed issues. We are also concerned with
>probiotics and their ability to both promote growth and to limit establishment
>of pathogens in food animals.
>
>So, while it might at first glance appear (seeing that we somehow got off
>on the wrong foot) that we don't agree on things, I suspect we probably
>do.
>
>Looking forward to hearing from you.
>
David Johnston
dm...@bellsouth.net
spotsnall
In article <387d0176...@news.rdu.bellsouth.net>, joh...@labcorp.com
says...
spotsnall
Someone had stated incorrectly that antibiotics in animal feed somehow
suppressed or adversely affected the immune response.
Modem wrote:"The reason I have heard is that it suppresses any bacteria present
and
allows the body's imune system to work full time fighting the virus.
They put (or used-to) large amoounts of antibiotics is animal feed for
similar reasons."
I did not view the above quote as the product of a student asking a question
but rather as an assertion about mechanisms of antimicrobial action--"allows
the immune system to function," and that's why it is put in animal feeds, etc.
This assertion is so far from correct that my response was not aimed at
a serious question from a student but at what I viewed as a nonsense anser
by someone too ill informed to be participating in the discussion.
This offended you, for which I am sorry, since I can tell that overall
we hold essentially science based views and wish to promolgate these.
Dr. David M. Johnston
>Your points are well taken. No offense taken here at all.
>
Good-- none meant.
Now that all that's out of the way, I look forward to more stimulating
discourse about on-topic material!
Cheers,
David
David Johnston
wayne conlan
Hi:
Ironically, according to an article in the New York Times today, the
FDA is now concerned that too many flu patients are being fobbed off with
Relenza or Tamiflu alone, when some of them have life-threatening
secondary bacterial infections too. Some deaths are already being
attributed to this oversight. Interestingly, the external panel of
experts FDA convened to rule on the use of Relenza voted by 13 to 4 not
to approve it. In an apparently unusual manner, FDA overruled its expert
panel and gave this drug approval. Food for thought?
Regards,
Wayne.