Recent client drops bbb connection often, old client fine

[cxtinac]

Hello All ~ 

We have a bbb 0.7 cloud install that has been (and continues to be) rock-solid for conference calls, desktop share etc - so first, a big thank you Fred and team!

Here's the problem we are having. Please picture three different client stacks:

Stack 1: Chrome:25 or Firefox 19 on Linux Mint/Cinnamon + Intel C2D 3.00GHz/3G memory with fibre uplink (ping 2.5 msec, 4.8/0.7Mbps down/up)

Stack 2: Firefox or Chrome on Windows 7 + [same hardware + link as stack 1 (it's a dual boot)]

Stack 3: Firefox or Chrome on Ubuntu 10.04 Dell Pentium M 1.6GHz/1.5G memory laptop (yes, old!) with 3G uplink (ping 75 msec, 0.9/0.3Mbps down/up)

The bbb links for stack 1 and 2 are unstable, and drop and reconnect every 1 to 10 minutes. Whereas old faithful stack 3 seems to be stable for extended periods.

The problem this causes is that it is impossible to moderate a bbb session or to do a desktop share from either 1 or 2, because when the session drops and reconnects, access to the desktop share is lost, and although the moderator can reconnect, they do not come back with moderator permissions, and so cannot reassign the user who was doing the desktop share.

One other thing we discovered: if we move stack 3 to the uplink of stack 1/2 (the high speed link) it still seems to perform well, so we are suspecting buggy flash versions or similar? Any and all advice appreciated - for now we moderate and host desktop shares through the old laptop! We would much prefer to not redo bbb server as a more recent version, since it has several customizations and integration with another asterisk, etc..

Thanks in advance for any help!

PS: Logs have not shed any light so far.

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Cxtinac,

> We have a bbb 0.7 cloud install that has been (and continues to be) rock-solid for conference calls, desktop share etc - so first, a big thank you Fred and team!

Good to hear!

> The bbb links for stack 1 and 2 are unstable

Are those users coming from behind a firewall?  You can tell by doing 

  bbb-conf --network

when users are connected. You'll see an option such as 

netstat                 80      1935    9123

108.58.193.96           0       4       0

108.43.93.247           0       4       0

131.104.190.50          0       3       0

131.147.122.99          0       4       0

131.147.123.132         0       4       0

131.147.24.202          0       4       0

132.180.158.104         0       3       0

134.36.100.6            0       4       0

134.36.101.132          6       0       0

173.65.58.182           0       4       0

If you do

   

  watch bbb-conf --network

it will update for you every few seconds.

If you don't see any values in 1935, then the user is tunneling to the server (as is 134.36.101.132 above).  Do the users who tunnel disconnect more frequently than others?

Regards,... Fred

-- 
BigBlueButton Developer

http://bigbluebutton.org/
http://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton

BigBlueButton on twitter: @bigbluebutton

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[Sandra Abrams]

HI,

I don't know what this email is about.  I did ask a question though.  Can I show a video or movie as part of my presentation if I am using this service?

Thanks,

Sandy

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Sandy,

Hmmm ... did you recently subscribe to the BigBlueButton-Users mailing list?  That's why you would start receiving e-mails.

> Can I show a video or movie as part of my presentation if I am using this service?

Not at the moment.  We don't have synchronized video playback in BigBlueButton.  It's one of the oldest enhancement requests.  See

   https://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton/issues/detail?id=218

For information on how we prioritize features for each release, see

  https://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton/wiki/FAQ#When_will_feature_X_be_implemented

Regards,... Fred

-- 
BigBlueButton Developer

http://bigbluebutton.org/
http://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton

BigBlueButton on twitter: @bigbluebutton

[Sandra Abrams]

Sorry if you got several questions about this.  I got messages that the email wasn't delivered.

sandy

[cxtinac]

Hi Fred ~ 

Thanks for quick reply! I actually tried 

  watch bbb-conf --network

before - but forgot to mention. In fact all three stacks are showing connections on 1935, and when the connection drops all we see is the item disappear from the the list, and a message in the bbb-web.log when the client reconnects. Also tried

  bbb-conf --watch

and don't see any errors reported.

cxtinac.

[Fred Dixon]

Hi cxtinac,

Hmmm ... does the connection drop at the same time for all the users in the stack? 

Regards,... Fred

-- 
BigBlueButton Developer

http://bigbluebutton.org/
http://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton

BigBlueButton on twitter: @bigbluebutton

[cxtinac]

Hi Fred ~ 

We don't really have a way to test that - basically this is 2 machines, one fairly recent dual boot Linux Mint or Windows 7 - both of which are problematic, and one old Ubuntu 10.04 laptop (works fine). btw, in case you're wondering haven't been able to find any signs of network problems.

cxtinac.

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[Sebastian Hilbert]

Hi,

 

On Tuesday, April 02, 2013 07:54:36 PM cxtinac wrote:

> Hi Fred ~

>

> We don't really have a way to test that - basically this is 2 machines, one

> fairly recent dual boot Linux Mint or Windows 7 - both of which are

> problematic, and one old Ubuntu 10.04 laptop (works fine). btw, in case

> you're wondering haven't been able to find any signs of network problems.

>

 

Stack 1 and 2 are on a different network setup then stack 3. Stack 1 and 2 are on different hardware then stack 3. Stack 1 and 2 are on different OS then stack 3.

 

You seem to rule out network issues for stack 1 and 2. If you have a chance try using the network of stack 3 for stack 1 and 2 just to be sure.

 

If you rule out network then you are left with hardware and software. If it happens on both stack 1 and 2 it could be hardware but most likely is not.

 

So that leaves operating system. Is there a chance to get your stack 3 setup (Ubuntu 10.04) tested on the hardware for stack 1 and 2 ? While Mint technically should be close to Ubuntu you most likely have slight differences in system libs and dependencies. I guess RED5 and Freeswitch are identical but even the sound system (alsa ?) could be at a different revision. The network stack (kernel driver) can be at a different revision.

 

I guess the only way to find out would be to get the software stack of stack 3 replicated on the machines for stack 1 and stack 2.

 

Regards,

Sebastian

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[cxtinac]

Hi Sebastian ~ 

Thank you for suggestions. We can get the Stack 3 (Ubuntu 10.04) laptop on the same network as the other two - I  know this is not quite what you suggest, but depending on result it may help us rule out network. As well I still have an Ubuntu 10.04 live cd (i386), so I will see if I can get that on the Stack 1/2 hardware and connecting to bbb (may be a long shot). But depending on the outcome may help rule out (or in) hardware.

Will take me a day or two to fit that in, but will report back in due course. Thanks again,

cxtinac.

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[cxtinac]

Hi Sebastian ~ 

A further update, and some interesting results. I got a chance to try some of the combinations you suggested late today (sooner than expected):

I was able to boot my live Ubuntu 10.04 CD on the Stack 1/2 hardware with the fast connection, and then successfully installed both flash and java, so I could test the desktop share. Flash 11 and JDK 7. The result... consistent link drops within 10 minutes or so.

As well, I was able to get the Stack 3 setup (old laptop/Ubuntu 10.04) on the same (Stack 1/2) fast network. This result: rock solid for an extended period of time - no drops, I finally shut it down after several hours..

So I think putting it together would rule out network issues (one good, several bad on the same network), and also rule out OS (Ubuntu 10.04 good on one hardware set up, bad on the other - although I know one is live CD one "real" install), which leaves us with hardware I think.....

Keen to hear your thoughts,

cxtinac.

[Sebastian Hilbert]

Hi,

 

On Wednesday, April 03, 2013 08:47:53 PM cxtinac wrote:

> Hi Sebastian ~

>

> A further update, and some interesting results. I got a chance to try some

> of the combinations you suggested late today (sooner than expected):

>

> I was able to boot my live Ubuntu 10.04 CD on the Stack 1/2 hardware with

> the fast connection, and then successfully installed both flash and java,

> so I could test the desktop share. Flash 11 and JDK 7. The result...

> consistent link drops within 10 minutes or so.

>

 

See below.

 

> As well, I was able to get the Stack 3 setup (old laptop/Ubuntu 10.04) on

> the same (Stack 1/2) fast network. This result: rock solid for an extended

> period of time - no drops, I finally shut it down after several hours..

>

 

Good to know.

 

> So I think putting it together would rule out network issues (one good,

> several bad on the same network),

 

I agree.

 

> and also rule out OS (Ubuntu 10.04 good

> on one hardware set up, bad on the other - although I know one is live CD

> one "real" install), which leaves us with hardware I think.....

>

 

Are we talking about the client side only ? Or do you mean stack 1/2 are serverside ?

 

Are the flash and jdk versions on the old laptop and the new live-cd identical ? Was the browser version which you used on stack 3 and the live-version identical?

 

What I am saying is that we cannot rule out software just yet. Only if you manage to replicate the exact software of stack 1 and 2 on hardware of stack 3 or if you manage to test the exact software of stack 3 on hardware of stack 1/2 we can be certain.

 

BBB devs might know better here but we need to check the most critical parts in the equation. Browser, Java, Flash versions. I have a feeling they are not identical across all stacks. If they are then let me know.

 

If you have the option I would try to replicate the exact software stack (Ubuntu 10.04) including the same software versions on one of the hardware stacks which drop the link. Might be quite some work but maybe triple boot is possible.

 

It could be hardware but I wonder where to start looking. Since it is failing on 2 hardware stacks your only chance to find out would be to find a 4th stack that is working or is not. I wonder if BBB has some sort of logging to tell why the connection is dropping.

 

Sebastian

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Sebastian and cxtinac,

We (the core developers) are watching this thread with interest.  

Stability is the most important part of BigBlueButton development for us.  Can you test Stack 1/2 against

  http://demo.bigbluebutton.org/

and let us know if there is any difference in stability.  

Regards,... Fred

-- 
BigBlueButton Developer

http://bigbluebutton.org/
http://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton

BigBlueButton on twitter: @bigbluebutton

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[cxtinac]

Hi Fred, Hi Sebastian ~ 

Good news: we figured out that the problem was hardware. After much hunting we discovered the following in the logs intermittently:

Apr 4 15:46:29 test-wkstn kernel: [26053.059002] forcedeth 0000:00:14.0: >eth0: link down
Apr 4 15:46:30 test-wkstn kernel: [26054.639264] forcedeth 0000:00:14.0: >eth0: link up

..with a drop of usually around a second, every few minutes. And our bbb client drops were synchronized with these. This drop is evidently short enough that it was not noticeable for things like browser, ssh etc. but appears it is long enough to trigger the bbb flash client to drop and reconnect. Once found, since the machine in question already had a second nic which did not show this problem (we established), it was a very quick fix. Since then we have successfully run two trouble-free sessions - for a total of 3+ hours live using this hardware.

I guess a couple of follow-on questions would be:

• 'is there a way to extend the resilience of the bbb flash client connection to span these short drops like other (admittedly lower level) apps? and,
  
• 'is there a way to re-activate the moderator after a drop? (since we found that when the moderator connection drops it comes back as an ordinary user, and no-one in the UI can assign a new moderator - am I right?).
  

But we are happy, and back to our rock-solid bbb!

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

cxtinac.

PS: I was going to add "solved" to subject line, but will await any feedback or advice before doing that. Thanks again.

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