Is it in the READ file of presenter?
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Add this to bbb_conference.xml right before <action application="conference" data="$1@cdquality"/>
<action application="set" data="RECORD_WRITE_ONLY=true"/>
<action application="record_session" data="/var/freeswitch/meetings/${destination_number}_${strftime(%Y-%m-%d-%H-%M-%S)}_WRITE_${caller_id_name}.wav"/>
<action application="set" data="RECORD_READ_ONLY=true"/>
<action application="record_session" data="/var/freeswitch/meetings/${destination_number}_${strftime(%Y-%m-%d-%H-%M-%S)}_READ_${caller_id_name}.wav"/>"
And there is only one user (presenter) in a conference , it creates only one file with 874384883268324-something name
Sounds like you presenter is entering through the dialplan somewhere else if I had to guess.
Regards,
Stephen
From: bigbluebu...@googlegroups.com <bigbluebu...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Alex
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 7:22 AM
To: BigBlueButton-Setup <bigbluebu...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bigbluebutton-setup] Could someone post a 1.5-2 minutes recording of them talking (or playing an audiobook) via BBB conference?
Hello.
IWhen I enable this
"
Add this to bbb_conference.xml right before <action application="conference" data="$1@cdquality"/>
<action application="set" data="RECORD_WRITE_ONLY=true"/>
<action application="record_session" data="/var/freeswitch/meetings/${destination_number}_${strftime(%Y-%m-%d-%H-%M-%S)}_WRITE_${caller_id_name}.wav"/>
<action application="set" data="RECORD_READ_ONLY=true"/>
<action application="record_session" data="/var/freeswitch/meetings/${destination_number}_${strftime(%Y-%m-%d-%H-%M-%S)}_READ_${caller_id_name}.wav"/>"
And there is only one user (presenter) in a conference , it creates only one file with 874384883268324-something name
When a user joins another two files get created. READ and WRITE. READ file is silent.
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Sounds like you presenter is entering through the dialplan somewhere else if I had to guess.
Regards,
Stephen
From: bigbluebu...@googlegroups.com <bigbluebu...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Alex
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 7:22 AM
To: BigBlueButton-Setup <bigbluebu...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bigbluebutton-setup] Could someone post a 1.5-2 minutes recording of them talking (or playing an audiobook) via BBB conference?
Hello.
IWhen I enable this
"
Add this to bbb_conference.xml right before <action application="conference" data="$1@cdquality"/>
<action application="set" data="RECORD_WRITE_ONLY=true"/>
<action application="record_session" data="/var/freeswitch/meetings/${destination_number}_${strftime(%Y-%m-%d-%H-%M-%S)}_WRITE_${caller_id_name}.wav"/>
<action application="set" data="RECORD_READ_ONLY=true"/>
<action application="record_session" data="/var/freeswitch/meetings/${destination_number}_${strftime(%Y-%m-%d-%H-%M-%S)}_READ_${caller_id_name}.wav"/>"
And there is only one user (presenter) in a conference , it creates only one file with 874384883268324-something name
When a user joins another two files get created. READ and WRITE. READ file is silent.
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Well, it's the default manual\and auto-installation...And I'm still gonna ask everyone here... Can anyone actually produce a clear audio recording without these sounds?
On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 6:48:38 PM UTC+3, HostBBB.com wrote:
Sounds like you presenter is entering through the dialplan somewhere else if I had to guess.
Regards,
Stephen
From: bigbluebu...@googlegroups.com <bigbluebu...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Alex
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 7:22 AM
To: BigBlueButton-Setup <bigbluebu...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bigbluebutton-setup] Could someone post a 1.5-2 minutes recording of them talking (or playing an audiobook) via BBB conference?
Hello.
IWhen I enable this
"
Add this to bbb_conference.xml right before <action application="conference" data="$1@cdquality"/>
<action application="set" data="RECORD_WRITE_ONLY=true"/>
<action application="record_session" data="/var/freeswitch/meetings/${destination_number}_${strftime(%Y-%m-%d-%H-%M-%S)}_WRITE_${caller_id_name}.wav"/>
<action application="set" data="RECORD_READ_ONLY=true"/>
<action application="record_session" data="/var/freeswitch/meetings/${destination_number}_${strftime(%Y-%m-%d-%H-%M-%S)}_READ_${caller_id_name}.wav"/>"
And there is only one user (presenter) in a conference , it creates only one file with 874384883268324-something name
When a user joins another two files get created. READ and WRITE. READ file is silent.
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Hi Alex,
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1) Why are there no gaps on other services(zoom, youtube, discord, steam,skype you name it). Even Jitsi (a far inferior to BBB system)that uses webrtc didn't have them. it had other issues , but not this one.2) >any potential issues of the network
Which network?- The server's network? We tried it on..3 different networks\data centers. Each server had minimal ping, little (less than 1%) jitter and packet loss
Don't forget we tried the official bbb demo server and the Stephen's server.
- The presenter's network? I think we tried doing it using 4 or more different ISPs.Let's assume it's not the network. What's next?
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then it's something inside FreeSWITCH
Src IP addr Port Dest IP addr Port SSRC Payload Pkts Lost Max Delta(ms) Max Jitter(ms) Mean Jitter(ms) Problems?
217.23.XX.XX 28744 85.143.164.218 55054 0x3936C535 Unknown(96) 2055 0 (0.0%) 0.00 0.00 0.00
85.143.XXX.XXX 60314 217.23.XX.XX 25208 0x272CB6C1 Unknown(120) 2339 0 (0.0%) 0.00 0.00 0.00
217.23.XX.XX 22350 85.143.XXX.XXX 25942 0x85C09081 Unknown(109) 10175 0 (0.0%) 0.00 0.00 0.00
85.143.XXX.XXX 25942 217.23.XX.XX 22350 0xA29E117E Unknown(109) 10176 0 (0.0%) 0.00
We've tested today Nextcloud Talk.It also uses WebRTC.The sound was clear.I'm sorry, but at this point,considering everything posted in this thread and audio clipping (or whatever we can call it) reproduced on the official BBB demo server by different parties, we should acknowledge that there is undeniably an issue with Freeswitch\BBB config.Where exactly the problem lies is for the devs to find out. Unfortunately I can't do it.
I believe that this should be on a priority list. Web conference is about audio quality first and foremost. Polling, chat, video sharing, whiteboard etc are all good and fine, but audio quality comes first.I guess I won't be posting anymore\spamming forum with my ramblings on the matter =) coz I believe enough was said.Thank you all guys for taking your time and trying to help me out.PS My friend and I tested the official bbb demo server and the issue was much more noticeable there ( coz of energy level =100?)
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on my local VM
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Hey Richard,
May I ask why u have changed echo conference settings? Don't they affect only self-test?.
I listened to the files in your archive.
1) The recorded files 183f0bf3a0982a127bdb8161e0c44eb696b3e75c-1573248389295-xxxx have these "sounds"
2) The 3min recording actually sounds pretty good
Have you tried checking out how it sounds when you join as a listener (and recording it as a listener using,say, obs(audio only capture)?
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Hi Alex,
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Hi Alex,
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But in your testing your finding this improves audio quality?
Did you do a test where you increased just that value and the audio quality improved?
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Hi Alex,Here's an existing issue where you can add your comments and track our progressWe had updated this issue about two weeks ago with a reference link to this discussion in bigbluebutton-setup.Regards,... Fred
On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 4:37 AM Alex <fedotov...@gmail.com> wrote:
--But in your testing your finding this improves audio quality?hey Fred.I think they are talking about the general audio quality. For instance, set <param name="complexity" value to 1 instead of 5(10). You will notice that the audio sounds noticeably worse than at higher values.In our case, the problem is not audio quality but these strange audio noises\clipping sounds this whole thread is about. And considering that it was confirmed the issue is universal I would think it deserves to be posted on github so it won't get lost on the forums ;)Did you do a test where you increased just that value and the audio quality improved?I haven't done it. I can't test it today coz the server is in use. I could try it this weekend.Regards,Alex
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Good day.Fred, any news on the issue??
Sincerely yours,Alex
On Thursday, November 28, 2019 at 3:11:58 PM UTC+3, Fred Dixon wrote:
Hi Alex,Here's an existing issue where you can add your comments and track our progressWe had updated this issue about two weeks ago with a reference link to this discussion in bigbluebutton-setup.Regards,... Fred
On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 4:37 AM Alex <fedotov...@gmail.com> wrote:
--But in your testing your finding this improves audio quality?hey Fred.I think they are talking about the general audio quality. For instance, set <param name="complexity" value to 1 instead of 5(10). You will notice that the audio sounds noticeably worse than at higher values.In our case, the problem is not audio quality but these strange audio noises\clipping sounds this whole thread is about. And considering that it was confirmed the issue is universal I would think it deserves to be posted on github so it won't get lost on the forums ;)Did you do a test where you increased just that value and the audio quality improved?I haven't done it. I can't test it today coz the server is in use. I could try it this weekend.Regards,Alex
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Hi Alex,
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Hey Richard.Check this out https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bigbluebutton-dev/joJyywgYTTk/roFBwEq4EQAJ Kudos to Roberto!We used almost the same config with small changes
https://pastebin.com/8Fs9qG0w
The sound is MUCH better and we can actually start using bbb coz I gotta be honest, it was hard to get through a lecture (not even a long one) with these constant crackly sounds. You need to start looking into these settings when you are done with whatever it is you lot are doing now ;)Stay healthy ;)
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...the out of sync gets more and more
after 20 min there was a gap of 2 seconds
thanks for your quick response - we will try to just use the jb changes instead of all...
best
Martin
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...hm...
so if the buffer settings remove crackling - but introduze out of sync ... we cannot fix anyway?
Or do you have any idea?
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so, we tried to just change the buffer settings
and emedeately saw packet loss in the log... so sync also will get lost ...
Anyone an idea how to remove the crackling noise without getting the packet loss and getting out of sync?
:-(
Martin
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so, we tried to just change the buffer settings
and emedeately saw packet loss in the log... so sync also will get lost ...
Anyone an idea how to remove the crackling noise without getting the packet loss and getting out of sync?
:-(
Martin
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>. So it might be the codec when decoding the packets introducing the clips. But it's difficult to prove.If it was the codec then why would changing jitter buffer settings almost eliminate these sounds?
Regards,ALex
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Hey Richard ..about decrypting traffichave you tried using wireshark?
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Hi Alex,
thank you for not giving up ;-)
in the original post:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/bigbluebutton-dev/joJyywgYTTk/roFBwEq4EQAJ
sthephen wrote:
DistanceLearning.cloud To disable AEC/noise/agc just need to set
constraints in getusermedia, can add this to bbb webrtc_bridge and
sip.js code. Also there is a hack to get chrome stereo going with
sdp. Se also can send 2ch binaural audio end to end. Regards,
1. waht about the things to disable?
2. why don't we use the video-mcu-stereo settings? could you also provide me with that ones, so we could try them? the link of Roberto seem to be expired again.
3. would you mind to post all changes, that you made together... to make sure we do not forget something?
cheers
Martin
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Hi Alex,
thank you for not giving up ;-)
in the original post:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/bigbluebutton-dev/joJyywgYTTk/roFBwEq4EQAJ
sthephen wrote:
DistanceLearning.cloud To disable AEC/noise/agc just need to set constraints in getusermedia, can add this to bbb webrtc_bridge and sip.js code. Also there is a hack to get chrome stereo going with sdp. Se also can send 2ch binaural audio end to end. Regards,
1. waht about the things to disable?
2. why don't we use the video-mcu-stereo settings? could you also provide me with that ones, so we could try them? the link of Roberto seem to be expired again.
3. would you mind to post all changes, that you made together... to make sure we do not forget something?
cheers
Martin
Am 03.04.2020 um 21:22 schrieb Alex:
--Just wanted to clarify things:
Use the settings that don't produce crackly sounds BUT change bbb_conference and bbb_echo_to_conference settings to the ones I proposed in my previous post..
Regards
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Hi Alex, Stephen and Roberto,
I am not in the dev list ...will have to contact him off list or join the other list too, if he does not read here (or if you do not mind, could you forward this to him?).
thank you for the config - I will look into that too
>why don't we use the video-mcu-stereo settings
I don't need it. it's up to you what profile to use.
does the mcu also use the opus codec or does it use the v8 vor video and audio? ... or to ask the other way: would it be the same to add "channels: 2" to the cdquality profile when only using audio?
> waht about the things to disable?
mmm what things? I'm testing right now with the settings I posted on pastebin (see my previous post
:-) I refered to the browser (or not browser) settings that roberto noted as important:
"important for us was to manually modify flags/config in browsers to disable AGC and AEC, and noise suppression. "
As stephen said:
"To disable AEC/noise/agc just need to set constraints in getusermedia, can add this to bbb webrtc_bridge and sip.js code. Also there is a hack to get chrome stereo going with sdp. Se also can send 2ch binaural audio end to end. "
But I have no idea what that in fact means to me ... how would I
do that (STephen?)?
thank you all - maybe together we will be able to find the perfekt settings for BBB :-)
cheers
Martin
/usr/share/meteor/bundle/programs/web.browser/app/compatibility/sip.js
Thanks to Stephen!!
Basically what I did was to look for the instances of constraints or where the media stream is created, and inserted custom constraints and forced them in:
line 11941->. mediaHint = Object.keys(mediaHint || {}).length ? mediaHint : this.mediaHint;
replaced with-> mediaHint = this.mediaHint
and
line 11956->
var constraints = mediaHint.constraints || |
(this.mediaHint && this.mediaHint.constraints) || |
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Neat Roberto
echoCancellation: false,
Only issue with this is everyone has to wear headphones. No open mics in meetings. Because speaker out is going back in the mic with nothing to cancel it out.
If have stereo mic with L/R inputs, and the conference is set to channel=2, you can actually have this binaural audio end to end…. Can set a channel constraint, and make it optional or mandatory
Have fun… tweaking.
Regards,
Stephen
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Stephen, Roberto,
thank you both very much ... I will test these settings on Monday - maybe without echo cancelation - guess the noise suppression and autogain: False should be enough to remove the cracklings?
We will test if there arise any out of sync problems with these and alex jb settings combined...
hopefully this together will do it eventually.
cheers
Martin
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Hey Guys,
yeah, I also think that the gain and noise suppression do not cause the crackling, but I also am trying to encrease the sound quality - so I will try all different settings to compare, where crackling disappears and if the other things improve the sound quality.
These artefacts and humbling of voice drive me crazy ;-)
As reference I keep jitsy, because it also works without extensions in firefox and has clear voice all the time. maybe they also disabled the noise suppression...
Roberto, I may be wrong, but I think that somewhere in the docs or lists there had been talked about chrome using an extension and only firefox using the devices natively. Guess stephen knows it and can clear things.
cheers
Martin
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Hi Alex,
not sure about the out of sync yet, we will have to test more, but as soon as we disable jitterbuffer_msec, we seem to have more packet loss entries in the logfile, is this possible, or is it not related?
And is the packet loss note in the logfile a problem, or is it okay?
cheers
Martin
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Hi Alex,
yes exactly, 200 and 15% - no crackly noises and so far no out of sync problems, but as I said, we will be able to test this with more users tomorrow morning.
If this test also passes, this should be a solution... so let's hope it will. ;-)
The sound defenitely seems to be okay, I had a few different tests now with a few users and different internet connections.
But I do not want to be happy before it really is proofed - also by others.
did you already have the chance to make a first test?
cheers
Martin
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did you already have the chance to make a first test?
Do you have turn? Would be interested in seeing in logs if this user was relaying.
If relaying tcp you don’t ever drop packets.. since protocol just retries.. so this introduces different sound artifacts then UDP since data is delayed,
With normal UDP, and the standard settings with FEC… missed packets <10% don’t matter the codec looks at some other packets, guesses and keeps on playing often with the “average” user not even noticing.
With FEC off.. you will introduce crappy audio any time packets are lost (cant control this in open internet)
So every tweak in audio configs has implications.. Chrome AEC Echo cancellation can get out of sync if the jitter buffers overflow and you hear echo all of a sudden.
And setting the interval in conference platform from 20 to 60, means only 1 out of 3 samples gets mixed in conference.
Regards,
Stephen
From: bigbluebu...@googlegroups.com <bigbluebu...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Alex
Sent: Monday, April 6, 2020 12:52 PM
To: BigBlueButton-Setup <bigbluebu...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bigbluebutton-setup] Audio quality was: (Could someone post a 1.5-2 minutes recording of them talking (or playing an audiobook) via BBB conference?)
Hey Martin
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Stephen, Alex,
so what does the jitterbuffer do exactly - if it also could cause this artifacts (on tcp)
and does the vec prevent theese tcp artifacts?
I had some packets lost since we moved from jb 60:300:60 to jb set to 200.
So I tried jb with 60:300:60 but got back the crackling.
For me it seems, that the crackling occurs as soon as you split
the jitterbuffer settings to three, instead of just one value.
Could this be?
What does the buffer if only one value is set? means this, that the startvalue is the same as the max and the max drift?
I set the jb to 300 now, no idea if this will work without packet loss and even less idea if this makes out of sync problems again.
Any more thoughts Stephen? ;-)
cheers
Martin
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Hi Alex,
I sent you the files in a mail off list some hours ago ;-)
I use your dialplan settings but instead of 60 I have 40 for the jitterbuffer as some users complained the audio too far behind video.
In opus I have turned on vec and jb_lookahead
this seems to work for voice as long as energy-level is turned off and autogain/noise suppression also are disabled in sip.js.
To reach cdquality, what it pretends to be, I have no idea, what we could try, as music does not work at all ... And music should be our reference, when this will be working, we will have reached good audio quality. :-)
cheers
Martin
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Hi guys,
it is so frustrating. When I set the jitterbuffer to 40 sound is quite okay (where okay still means bad when you compare with jitsi or zoom)
but it gets out of sync too often.
If I set the jb to three values e.g. 60:120:30 it keeps in sync, but seems to correct very often and on correcting has the crackling noise.
In our tests it seems, that the crackling mostly appears if webcams are turned on and only a few crackles occur when audio only conferences are used.
does only one value in the jitterbuffer mean, that there is no max_drift? or does it mean all three values are the same?
How can it be, that we do not reach a quality near jitsy? What do they do different? :-(
Could we add some offset so video is a bit delayed - then we could give more jitterbuffer and hope this tastes more in sync?
Or does anyone have any more suggestion / idea what could be the real/main problem so we can try to solve it?
Our goal should be to stream music and have the same quality as you would have when you listen to a shoutcast or youtube stream. Opus can hd quality and we do not even reach a cracklefree mono audio stream.
:-(
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jitsi is just relaying everyone’s original audio captured in browser.
If you have 20 users. 20 audio streams just relayed to everyone.
SFU does nothing but relay unaltered media.
Freeswitch 1) decodes opus, 2) converts to L16, 3) mixes with all the other audio and comfort noise then, 4) encodes back to OPUS and 5) send 1 audio stream to everyone.
With freeswitch you get single mixed recording of session.
Pros and cons of both
Regards,
Stephen
From: bigbluebu...@googlegroups.com <bigbluebu...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Martin Thomas Schrott
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 2:16 PM
To: bigbluebu...@googlegroups.com; Alex <fedotov...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bigbluebutton-setup] Audio quality was: (Could someone post a 1.5-2 minutes recording of them talking (or playing an audiobook) via BBB conference?)
Hi guys,
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Stephen,
thanks so much, now I understand all that trouble eventually.
@Fred, Chad and the other core developers (excuse to include you here) but I think only with you this can be improved...
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Hey guys,
in addition to my last message ...
first: i clearly would love to have the choice with sfu - as stated and explained in my last message - and hope someone can help to impliment this...
am I right, that this file would be one of the places where this happens?
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/bigbluebutton/bbb-webrtc-sfu/master/lib/audio/audio.js
...really - I have no idea but it looks as if this would do the inbound routing ... but to additionally route via sfu would not be enough, the mcu also would have to be changed a bit to prevent doublicate streams... Hope someone - who knows what to do - will help here.
second, stephen explained, that freeswitch "2) converts to L16,
"
I guess here is where the audio problems are introduzed. Would it be possible to just let the streams be in opus and mix the opus streams with eachother? this would remove decoding and also not need reencoding. Would safe a lot cpu and - I am quite sure - would prevent audio problems, because mixing should not make crackles or other artefacts at all.
(yes, I guess only other opus files could be mixed, so chat and moh and comfort noise will have to be opus right?)
But this should be a quite easy way to get better audio,
shouldn't it?
And just to test that, only some de- and encoding would have to be removed and a mix of the opus files added.
Or am I missing something here? :-/
cheers
Martin
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Hey Richard
When getting the FreeSWITCH developers involved, we have to prove that the issue happens on the master branch of FreeSWITCH and on a supported OS. Unfortunately, BBB is not on master and not on supported OS.If any of you can reproduce this issue on the later FreeSWITCH and on Debian, that would help a lot in trying to get the FS devs involved.Richard
Am 08.04.2020 um 08:32 schrieb Alex:
> Tbh I would be happy if we could just deal with crackly sounds first ;)
>
> Maybe jitter buffer needs some tweaking we don't know about?
> Considering that changing it affects crackling.
>
Hi Alex, I am always willing to keep on testing, but I have no more
ideas and audio quality does not get great, just a bit better - with
loosing sync.
As I said, if we just use one value in the jitterbuffer e.g. 60 as you
used, crackling is minimized but in my opinion the jitterbuffer then
does nothing, because sync gets lost on packet loss.
As soon as I set three values e.g. 60:240:30 sync is much better (I
think because of the max drift value?) but crackling is back.
I really would like to try without the conversion from opus to l16 and
back to opus, as in my opinion this could be the issue, where the jb
interfears. But this really just is a guess that should be proofed.
For really good quality this may not be enough - that's why I asked if
sfu could be used for smaller rooms - where bandwith would not be a problem.
I am aware of the bandwith problem - that's why this always only could
be optional in the settings. But it really would be a good feature for
high quality teaching - our language department already had to change to
zoom because they need better voice quality than we can reach with bbb.
This should not happen.
So what would you try next? ;-)
>
> PS As for jitsi and zoom.. Don't forget that..
>
all true, but why not have the best of every system? If sfu can be used
in bbb alternatively it would be interesting for jitsi users as
alternative. And we would not loose users that need high quality audio.
Zoom unlikely cannot be compared as they have their own client and much
more flexibility because of that. But we should not forget to always
have a look at their quality as a goal to reach.
Hope we can get further
and improve quality much more...
cheers
Martin
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thanks
Martin
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