BBB 2.0 HTML5: Listen only users are logged out of the audio after several minutes

[Gemma]

Hi everyone,

I am hoping you might be able to help me. I am not a developer and need some guidance please on an issue I am experiencing on BBB. 

I have a learning platform and my development team have utilized BBB 2.0 HTML5 to allow my users to host and attend webinars on our learning platform. The admin sets up the webinar in our platform and is emailed a link to host the webinar. Participants can access the webinar via an embedded link in our platform.

My development team have set the config so that webinar participants can only listen to the webinar and can not access their microphone when they join.

Participants have no problem signing in and joining the audio call at the beginning of the webinar. But after a few minutes (between 3-5 mins, it varies) the majority of participants in listen only mode get disconnected from the audio. The moderator/host of the webinar is not disconnected. And from the recording we know that their audio is not disconnected- there is constant sound. Only the participants get disconnected from the audio. 

When they get disconnected they see a BBB alert telling them the connection has failed 'Error: Connection Error". They can rejoin no problem by clicking the blue phone icon. And generally they don't seem to be disconnected again during the webinar.

Unfortunately the developers who originally set BBB up for me on my platform have moved on and because of a lack of documentation, my new developers have little understanding of what has been built.

I was hoping you could advise me on what to check/look out for. Are there any known issues that cause this or error logs I should specifically ask my development team to check that might inform us of what is causing the problem please?

I have considered the participants internet connection and browser. We advise everyone to use Google Chrome or Firefox. Edge is currently blocked due to other issues we were experiencing, as is mobile access to our platform. So we know users are all on Chrome, Firefox or Safari.

We have also done a lot of testing with strong internet speeds (upload and download) as per the BBB recommended requirements and we still see this issue regularly. Most of my testing is on Chrome and I experience this too.

For information, we use an AWS C5.XLarge instance. It's also a HTTPS access. Number of attendees is generally between 10-40.

Any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated. 

Kind regards,

Gemma

[Chad Pilkey]

The first thing to know would be whether the listen only users are connecting through FreeSWITCH or Kurento. Is this value true or false https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton/blob/v2.0.x-release/bigbluebutton-html5/private/config/settings-production.json#L93. The settings file should be found at /usr/share/meteor/bundle/programs/server/assets/app/config/settings-production.json. One of the issues with 2.0 is that the error reporting for audio isn't useful. Everything is boiled down to a few errors so figuring out the cause is very difficult. The error reporting is much better in 2.2.

It sounds like the only configuration change that's been made to the client is to set "forceListenOnly" to true. https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton/blob/v2.0.x-release/bigbluebutton-html5/private/config/settings-production.json#L10. Could also compare what's on your server with what's in the default file to find any other differences.

[Paulo R. Lanzarin]

If you can, please attach a full log from /var/log/bbb-webrtc-sfu taken from a session where the problem happened.

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[Peter Evgeniev]

I would jump here with a suggestion to upgrade to BBB 2.2. I have been evaluating on live with actual clients BBB 2.0 and had unexpected issues with the events one of which was that particular case for user to drop by themselves. I did not investigate the situation deep enough because there were inconveniences around the situation but after the upgrade to BBB2.2 all of the issues were resolved. Also in BBB 2.0 there were a lot of sound issues that are resolved in 2.2. 

So my 5 cents are - try BBB 2.2 HTML5. 

Peter 

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[Paulo R. Lanzarin]

Oh yes, what Peter said. Didn't realize you were using 2.0.

There's <a lot> of server-side improvements to the listen only code. Trying 2.2 out is a good bet.

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[Gemma]

Hi everyone.

Thank you so much for your messages. I will look into all of this now and come back with the error logs and answers to your questions when I have them.

I will look into the 2.2 version thank you as well. I was planning to upgrade but waiting until it was out of beta stage.

Thank you again.

Gemma

[Peter Evgeniev]

Hey Gemma,

I can confirm that if you jump on BBB2.2 you will definitely be much more happier. I have it in production with a small group of people that they use it with other people and it works well. I wasn't sure to go that path but i can confirm it works. Also updates and fixes for the HTML5 client are coming to the 2.2 version. There will be none to little difference to the settings of the new version. You'd better make backup just in case but it will take 15 min to upgrade and another hour tops to test all scenarios which you are doing and confirm that all works well.

Peter

[Gemma]

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for all your help. I now have answers to your questions from my development team regarding the 2.0 configuration.

Regarding our current 2.0 set up:

1. The first thing to know would be whether the listen only users are connecting through FreeSWITCH or Kurento. Is this value true or false https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton/blob/v2.0.x-release/bigbluebutton-html5/private/config/settings-production.json#L93. The settings file should be found at /usr/share/meteor/bundle/programs/server/assets/app/config/settings-production.json. 

The Kurento enable listen only is set to TRUE.

2. It sounds like the only configuration change that's been made to the client is to set "forceListenOnly" to true. https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton/blob/v2.0.x-release/bigbluebutton-html5/private/config/settings-production.json#L10. Could also compare what's on your server with what's in the default file to find any other differences.

Force listen is actually set to FALSE.

Apparently our "listen-only" feature is implemented in the UI effect, since setting the listen-only feature to true didn't work for us when we originally set up BBB on HTML5 version 2.0. Apparently we have our own UI config (more like styles and javascript event) to hide certain features and apply our own expand to full screen buttons.

These are the differences requested from my development team:

oldzy@oldzy-Lenovo-ideapad-530S-14IKB:~$ diff config_from__git.json config_current_bbb.json 

Here you can see certain version of build. Internal change, nothing to worry about.

16c16

<       "html5ClientBuild": "HTML5_CLIENT_VERSION",

---

>       "html5ClientBuild": "486",

Here you can see certain host instead of dummy param

75c75

<       "wsUrl": "HOST",

---

>       "wsUrl": "wss://bigbluebutton.clicklms.com/bbb-webrtc-sfu",

Below you can see how we allow video and screensharing

90,91c90,91

<       "enableScreensharing": false,

<       "enableVideo": false,

---

>       "enableScreensharing": true,

>       "enableVideo": true,

93c93

<       "enableListenOnly": false

---

>       "enableListenOnly": true

External requests enabled: 

357c357

<       "external": { "enabled": false, "level": "info", "url": "https://LOG_HOST/html5Log", "method": "POST" }

---

>       "external": { "enabled": false, "level": "info", "url": "https://172.31.3.171/html5Log", "method": "POST" }

393a394

> 

3. If you can, please attach a full log from /var/log/bbb-webrtc-sfu taken from a session where the problem happened.

Attached is an example from a session where we experienced the audio disconnection. The error seems to appear around lines 43-74. 

Do you know what could be the root cause of this? 

Or do you think the only solution is to upgrade to 2.2? If so how stable is 2.2 please? I was just waiting for a few more fixes on 2.2 before upgrading as I see it is still in beta phase (e.g. ability to switch between webcam and presentation fix).The issue I have is once installed i have to pay my development team each time to upgrade so I don't have budget to do this regularly. So if we can fix 2.0 issue i would then upgrade to 2.2 once stable.

Thanks for your help.

Gemma

On Tuesday, 4 June 2019 17:16:57 UTC+1, Gemma wrote:

[Chad Pilkey]

I would expect you to see an improvement with 2.2, but with your custom client changes it might be burdensome to move now because you'll likely want to keep up to date with our beta updates. You might be able to merge the customizations into 2.2 once and then just pull in updates, but it really depends on the extent of the customizations.

[Gemma]

Hi Chad,

Yes exactly. I think i have to wait until 2.2 is through the beta testing phase. Unless I can't find a solution to the disconnection issue and upgrading to 2.2 is the only way.

I realise now I uploaded the wrong file for the error report yesterday. Therefore please find attached the error report from an example webinar where all listen only users were disconnected from the audio. Does anyone know what could be the cause of this and if there is a fix? This issue is happening on every webinar we run at around 4-5 mins.

Thank you

Gemma

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Gemma,

> Yes exactly. I think i have to wait until 2.2 is through the beta testing phase.

If you could run some test sessions on https://demo.bigbluebutton.org/, which has the latest build of the BigBlueButton 2.2-beta, and let us know if you see any improvements, that would be great.

This way, you can help us in testing the beta without having to upgrade yourself.

Regards,... Fred

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[Gemma Rosen]

Yes ofcourse.

 

I will do this over the next couple of days.

 

Thanks,

 

Gemma

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[Gemma]

Hi everyone,

Apologies but did anyone know what might be causing the disconnection issue we are experiencing. It happens every time. Does the error log highlight anything that I should ask my development team to look at regarding configuration?

I have another customer webinar coming up and I'm very keen to resolve the issue for them before their event.

Apologies I haven't had time to look at the latest version of BBB. I will do this this week.

Thank you for your help,

Gemma

On Tuesday, 4 June 2019 17:16:57 UTC+1, Gemma wrote:

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Gemma,

> Apologies but did anyone know what might be causing the disconnection issue we are experiencing. It happens every time.

This actually makes it easier to determine the root cause.

For your next session, could you setup a meeting on our demo server (https://demo.bigbluebutton.org/) and let us know if you encounter the same issues.

This will help us narrow down the cause to a client, network, or server issue.

  

Regards,... Fred

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[Gemma]

Hi Fred,

Thanks for your message. We tested on the demo site and we did not experience the disconnection issue. So does this mean there is an issue with our set up and is there something specific we should look for?

I tested again twice on our platform and the problem happened in both scenarios- at around 5 mins the learners got disconnected from the audio.

To give you more information on how we use BBB on our platform:

- We allow course providers to create courses to sell on our platform

- As part of the course the course provider can schedule a webinar. They receive the BBB link from which to host the webinar when the course is published.

- Learners access the webinar via an embedded link in the course. They click 'Join' against the webinar learning resource.

- When they join the webinar they see a holding message (cannot see the BBB screen) until the admin starts the webinar. Once it starts they see the BBB prompt to join with audio (we hide the option to join with microphone) and the bbb webinar interface appears.

- On the admin side, they join the webinar at any time they want via the link but at the official start time they see an alert and must start the event to enable learners to join, The action or starting the event prompts the join with audio message to appear for the learners and they join and see/hear the BBB screen and presenter

- The BBB interface appears within an iframe on our platform because we are tracking learners activity to ensure they are active and can be awarded CPD/CE credits for their attendance. If they are inactive for 15 minutes for example we show an alert to see if they are there and then disconnect them from the webinar if they do not respond. This is to ensure they do not get credits for inactivity.

- The configurations we have done on the admin side: we hide the logout button, we have hidden your minimize and expand buttons and implemented our own so the learner can make the iframe full screen.

- The configurations on the learner side: Can only join with audio (we hide microphone), cannot share their webcam, we hide  the logout button, cannot share their screen.

Regarding the 2.2 feedback you asked for, it's looking great. From my own use case as described above this would be my feedback:

- One of the features we are really keen on is the ability for admin to mute all users and then allow users to speak when they are ready. This will mean we can allow users to join with microphone but apply mute all to prevent noise issues. 

- If the presenter could control the user's screen layout that would be good (i think this was the case in the flash version)- i.e. when admin moves webcam, it moves it for learners; when admin makes webcam full screen it goes full screen for learners etc.

- In 2.0 the presenter can click on the webcam and switch between webcam and presentation which was really easy to use. We liked this.

- When the presenter shares YouTube videos I would prefer that the participant cannot access the youtube controls (pause, play etc.) - and that the admin controls all of this (e.g. sound levels of the youtube video so they can talk over it). However I understand this may be out of your control.

Hope this helps and thanks for your help.

Gemma

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[Chad Pilkey]

The most likely cause is that the WebRTC SFU or Kurento services could be crashing causing people lose the network connection. This is the most likely if CPU and RAM are ruled out because both services have been significantly hardened in 2.2 and causes of crashes patched out. I know there's logs further up the email chain, but I'm not sure what to look for in them so hopefully someone else can look through them and point to issues.

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Gemma,

> - One of the features we are really keen on is the ability for admin to mute all users and then allow users to speak when they are ready. This will mean we can allow users to join with microphone but apply mute all to prevent noise issues.

As a moderator, you can mute all users 

Current and new viewers will come in muted.  They can unmute themselves to talk anytime.

> - If the presenter could control the user's screen layout that would be good (i think this was the case in the flash version)- i.e. when admin moves webcam, it moves it for learners; when admin makes webcam full screen it goes full screen for learners etc.

We are looking at adding the capability for the moderator to "push" their layout to all viewers. 

 >- In 2.0 the presenter can click on the webcam and switch between webcam and presentation which was really easy to use. We liked this.

In the BigBlueButton 2.2 HTML5 client, when a webcam is shared, users can minimize the presentation area and make the webcams take over the same area.  

> - When the presenter shares YouTube videos I would prefer that the participant cannot access the youtube controls (pause, play etc.) - and that the admin controls all of this (e.g. sound levels of the youtube video so they can talk over it). However I understand this may be out of your control.

Noted -- even though they see the controls, nothing happens if they try to pause, play, or seek -- but it would be better to hide the controls.

Added an issue to track this

  https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton/issues/7652

Thanks for the feedback!,... Fred

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[Gemma]

Great thanks Fred. 

Yes one of my customer's is very excited about the mute all feature when we upgrade.

Thanks for your message too Chad.

Any help anyone can give on why users are being disconnected would be very much appreciated. My development team don't know what is causing the problem and I don't have any technical experience.

Just to confirm it is a one-time disconnect for all users at around 5 mins in. The users can re-connect to the audio after they have been disconnected and this issue does not happen again.

I've re-attached the error log.

Thank you.

Gemma

On Tuesday, 4 June 2019 17:16:57 UTC+1, Gemma wrote:

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Gemma,

> I have a learning platform and my development team have utilized BBB 2.0 HTML5 to allow my users to host and attend webinars on our learning platform.

Is it an option for you to upgrade to the latest version of BigBlueButton 2.2-beta?  There has been a lot of work done in the audio/video in this release.  Alternatively, do you have users who are always disconnected ? Could you test with one of them in a session on your server and, at the same time, have them connect to https://test.bigbluebutton.org/ and share their microphone there as well.

When they get disconnected from your server with audio, do they also get disconnected from the https://test.bigbluebutton.org/ server as well?  This would greatly help narrow down the cause of the disconnect.

Regards,... Fred

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[Gemma]

Hi Fred,

I have already tested this and it only happens on our platform, not when we use your demo site.

My only concern is paying my developers to upgrade to 2.2 only to find we have the same issue. I just want to ensure that the team have set up BBB correctly on our platform and there is not something in the configuration on our side that is causing the disconnect issue seen in the logs.

Attached the error log and config differences requested previously. Not sure if this helps?

Thanks,

Gemma

On Thursday, 20 June 2019 13:00:48 UTC+1, Fred Dixon wrote:

Hi Gemma,

> I have a learning platform and my development team have utilized BBB 2.0 HTML5 to allow my users to host and attend webinars on our learning platform.

Is it an option for you to upgrade to the latest version of BigBlueButton 2.2-beta?  There has been a lot of work done in the audio/video in this release.  Alternatively, do you have users who are always disconnected ? Could you test with one of them in a session on your server and, at the same time, have them connect to https://test.bigbluebutton.org/ and share their microphone there as well.

When they get disconnected from your server with audio, do they also get disconnected from the https://test.bigbluebutton.org/ server as well?  This would greatly help narrow down the cause of the disconnect.

Regards,... Fred

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[Fred Dixon]

> I have already tested this and it only happens on our platform, not when we use your demo site.

...

> My only concern is paying my developers to upgrade to 2.2 only to find we have the same issue.

We can't guarantee that when you upgrade you won't have the same issue, but, given your not seeing the issue on our servers, its the first step in resolving the problem.

Regards,... Fred

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[Chad Pilkey]

There's no configuration in BBB that would cause a disconnect at 5 mins. The only configuration outside of BBB would be if there's some sort of limit where UDP connections are killed after 5 mins, but something like that would be very odd to set.