webRTC audio in BigBlueButton -- help test!

[Fred Dixon]

The goal of the BigBlueButton project is to provide remote students a high-quality online learning experience.

Audio is a critical component of that experience.

Putting on my Blindside Networks hat for this post, few years ago, on March 17, 2011, we put up a developer build (not an official release) of 0.80-dev and invited everyone to test the audio improvements and give us feedback.  

Here's the original thread

  https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bigbluebutton-dev/o21h35ufxFs/jqlkCfinDawJ

There have been a few releases since then (0.80 and 0.81), with lots of good features, but we never stopped thinking about how to further improve the audio.

Enter web real-time communications (webRTC).

webRTC enables the some browsers -- Google Chrome and Mozilla Firefox -- to send and receive audio/video within the browser itself (no plugin required).  When webRTC first came out, it was initially used for primarily peer-to-peer connections (browser to browser).  

BigBlueButton, however, is designed as a server-based architecture: we need all the communication to go through the BigBlueButton server so it can be recorded for later playback.  Thus, we needed a server-based webRTC endpoint to which the browsers could connect.  

Early in 2013, we built prototypes of webRTC audio using Asterisk 11.  The results were promising.  Then, on June 19, 2013, the FreeSWITCH project announced support for webRTC (see: http://www.freeswitch.org/node/455).

At that point, we had all the pieces to build in end-to-end webRTC audio in BigBlueButton. 

Compared to the existing Flash-based audio, webRTC-based audio, we believe, can offer a higher quality and lower latency audio connection.  This improvement would be noticed most in one-to-one teaching (such as tutoring) and small group collaboration.

So, after quite a few months of development, we now have a build of BigBlueButton 0.9.0-dev that supports webRTC.   We've installed it on a server and want your help to test!

I want to emphasize this post is *not* an announcement of BigBlueButton beta -- there is still a lot of work ahead.

As we did in 2011, this post is an opportunity to give everyone an early look at the work to support webRTC audio in BigBlueButton 0.9.0-dev and to get your feedback.

You can try out the build (using Google Chrome or Mozilla Firefox) at

     http://webrtc.blindsidenetworks.com/

The above page has a link to a YouTube video that gives you an overview of the UI changes to support webRTC audio. 

So, if your reading this message, take a moment, grab a set of headphones, and login to the server.  Let us know if you think the audio is better (or worse) than 0.80.

There's more work ahead, and we'll be updating this server in the coming weeks as we get closer 0.9.0-beta.

FAQ

Q: Is this an announcement for BigBlueButton 0.9.0-beta?

No.  We need help testing the webRTC audio so we can incorporate it into 0.9.0-beta, so we've put this test server.  

We believe webRTC audio will help us improve the quality of experience for users in lower latency networks.  We will validate this hunch through testing with the community.

Q: That means webRTC audio will be in BigBlueButton 0.9.0-beta?

Yes.  It may be disabled by default, but it will be there in the build.  Our goal is that anyone using BigBlueButton will benefit from higher quality audio.

Q: What are the technical differences in the audio compared to the current release?

In the current release of BigBlueButton (0.81) the audio packets go through the following path [protocol/transmission]

Adobe Flash --[speex (16 Khz) via TCP/IP]--> red5phone --[TCP/IP]--> FreeSWITCH

With webRTC audio, the path is

Browser --[opus (48 Khz) via UDP]--> FreeSWITCH

The path is much shorter, the opus codec has lower latency than speex, and the transport layer is UDP (not TCP/IP).  All these should combine together to give you higher quality and lower latency audio.

Q: Is this the final UI?

No.  This is a developer preview and you can expect the UI to change before reaching beta.

Q: What about leveraging WebRTC video?

That work is underway as part of the development of the HTML5 client.  You'll hear more updates on the progress in the coming months.

Q: What if I'm not using Chrome or Firefox?

In a later build we'll add support for falling back to Flash-based audio in IE and Safari.

Q: I found a bug on this developer preview, should I open an issue?

For now, give us feedback in this thread.  

Once BigBlueButton reaches 0.9.0-beta, then we'll use the issue tracker.  Until then, we need to give the developers time to finish the features.

Q: I want to setup this build on my server, how do I do it?

There is still lot of moving pieces in this build and it's not ready for others to setup.  We're working now on stabilizing the webRTC support for inclusion into the 0.9.0-beta, which, when available, will have a tested set of instructions for setup.

Regards,.. Fred

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Button Developer

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BigBlueButton on twitter: @bigbluebutton

[jossef]

latency:

the voice latency on my 081 server is about 0.9 seconds. 

the latency on your test server is about 0.4 seconds. 

but :
my server is only 4 hops away 

and your server is 30 hops away 

ping to my server is 16 ms

ping to your server is 172 ms

so the improvement is dramatic , 

as expected from using udp instead of tcp

voice quality 

in my opinion, on your  server the overall sound quality is extremely improved, 
it is smoother on high and low tons.

bandwidth 

i was surprised to see that both servers send 55 kbps audio on average.

and 40 kbps when muted. i expected that the new voice codec will consume more BW. so this is also a very good result   

i am curious about the cpu load on your webrtc server?  is freeswitch consumes more cpu ? 

Regards,

jossef 

בתאריך יום שלישי, 25 במרץ 2014 20:11:49 UTC+2, מאת Fred Dixon:

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Jossef,

Thanks for the data and feedback.

> i expected that the new voice codec will consume more BW

The opus codec is very.  For a comparison of quality vs. bitrate

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_(audio_codec).

> i am curious about the cpu load on your webrtc server?

We plan to do testing on the CPU usage of FreeSWITCH with various sizes of users before we reach beta and let you know the results.  

Thanks again Jossef for the feedback!

Regards,... Fred

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[Jenny]

Wow, very awesome. Thank you for all the excellent work on this project. I did not run any official tests, but did test it with me and me2 on the server, there is a noticeable difference in the delay which is about 1 sec in comparison to my setup. I wanted to add that, although this is great in terms of speed, etc., and even though there are directions on how a user can choose their mic, it doesn't seem as self-explanatory as what is now in 081 version, particularly using Chrome. A user will have to click (I think it was 2 or 3 times) to change their mic. First to click out of the instructions, then to accept, and/or then to pick their mic. 

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Jenny,

Thanks for the feedback.  

We do expect the number of steps to reduce over time as the browser evolve.  For now, we're going to guide the user through each step so they know what to do next.

Regards,.. Fred

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[nekapoor]

Hello!

I'm using Google Chrome (33.0.1750.146)  on Mac OS X (10.8.4) and I connected my headset and when I do the echo test, I don't hear anything.  Basically, it's not working for me on Chrome.

When I tried it on Firefox (27.0.1) , everything worked well.  

Not sure how else I can be of help, but hopefully with the versions I've left that could isolate the issue on Chrome. 

Thanks!

[Gustavo Salazar]

Hi,

could you please try using an incognito window in chrome? 

Gustavo Salazar (Guga)

[nekapoor]

Hi! 

So I tried an incognito window in chrome and now I don't even have the option to select the "Allow" and "Deny" buttons.  I've attached a screenshot. I get stuck with the popover that tells me to select "Allow". 

I tried it in a regular window and I get the same issue of the Allow, Deny buttons at the top don't show up. 

[Gustavo Salazar]

There is a camera icon at the end of the url bar with a red X, click on that icon and allow your microphone to be used.

[brunoBR]

Well, this is my experience.

I logged in the server last night, and for my luck there was another user connected, from Canada, and we managed to have a chat using audio and video, and it went really smooth. The latency is indeed much lower, as expected. Aftewards, we connected to a BBB running 0.8, and the delay in voice was much more noticeable. 

This is looking very promising! If only we didn't have to deal with so many confirmations on chrome, to allow mic and webcam. That's a bit of a headache to begginers, even with the whole explanation screens.

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Bruno,

Thanks for the feedback. We agree there are too many confirmations -- we're going to work on reducing them (by reusing some connections) before the final release of 0.9.0.

Regards,... Fred

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[Marc Schipperheyn]

For me it worked on FF but not on Chrome. The first time I loaded in Chrome (33.0.1750.149) it crashes. Second and subsequent times, it doesn't seem to pick up audio and I'm not hearing the music. I do get all the little popups asking for permissions

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Marc,

> Second and subsequent times, it doesn't seem to pick up audio and I'm not hearing the music. I do get all the little popups asking for permissions

Can you check the upper right-hand corner of Chrome and check if you see a camera icon with an 'x' through it.

Click on that camera icon to allow Chrome to access your webcam and microphone, you'll then be prompted to refresh your browser.

Give that a try and let us know if it now works for you.

Regards,.. Fred

On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Marc Schipperheyn <m.schip...@gmail.com> wrote:

For me it worked on FF but not on Chrome. The first time I loaded in Chrome (33.0.1750.149) it crashes. Second and subsequent times, it doesn't seem to pick up audio and I'm not hearing the music. I do get all the little popups asking for permissions

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[Marc Schipperheyn]

Yeah, I tried that a few times including the reloads. Didn't help. It's possible it's my setup (Mac OS Maverick). I often have audio issues.

[Marc Schipperheyn]

BTW, I don't have a red cross through it

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Marc,

Thanks for spending a few minutes with me.  We found it worked with Chrome after Mark restarted his browser.  

Regards,... Fred

On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Marc Schipperheyn <m.schip...@gmail.com> wrote:

BTW, I don't have a red cross through it

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[Dung Truong]

Hi,

  I opened demo page http://webrtc.blindsidenetworks.com/ and joined with a name by using Chrome. In my first machine, the screen is blurred all time and it didn't switch to normal scrren even browser is accepted to use camera and microphone ( like attached image ). In my second machine, I can pass the blurred screen then I click camera icon at the top of page to open camera sharing. I was asked to allow using camera and microphone by flash.

Vào 01:11:49 UTC+7 Thứ tư, ngày 26 tháng ba năm 2014, Fred Dixon đã viết:

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Dung,

Can you try it again use FireFox.  

Also, with Chrome, can you quit the browser completely, then try again.

Thanks!,... Fred

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[Chad Pilkey]

I've noticed an issue where if the WebRTC call fails to connect there's no feedback to the client so the popup windows never disappear making the rest of the client unusable. It's possible that's what Dung is hitting.

[Dung Truong]

Hi,

   I pass blurred screen and join the room completely but the sound from other paticitpants is not clean. 

[brunoBR]

Dung, it's probably your connection, I've just tested again and the audio is crystal clear here. How's your connection to the test server? You can try doing a traceroute to webrtc.blindsidenetworks.com to see if there's any congested router between you two.

[Dung Truong]

Hi,

  I can't give traceroute result here but I see RTA ~~ 300ms. 

Vào 21:45:39 UTC+7 Thứ sáu, ngày 04 tháng tư năm 2014, brunoBR đã viết:

[Block]

Hi, Fred

While the BBB use webrtc could it support p2p likes palava.tv???

在 2014年3月26日星期三UTC+8上午2时11分49秒，Fred Dixon写道：

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Douglas,

There is no plans to support P2P as we must have the option to record all sessions in BigBlueButton.

For example, if you were building a tutoring application with BigBlueButton, you would want to record all sessions for insurance purposes.

Regards,... Fred

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[Douglas Tang]

Hi, Fred

Do you think it difficult to modify it to support p2p likes palava.tv???

Fred Dixon <ffd...@gmail.com>于2014年4月8日星期二写道：

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I shall return!

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Douglas,

> Do you think it difficult to modify it to support p2p likes palava.tv???

Yes, it would be a fundamental change in the architecture and it's not something that we (the core developers) are going to attempt.  There are enough items on our road map to keep us very busy for the coming releases.

See

  https://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton/wiki/RoadMap

Regards,... Fred

[xonox]

hei doug


i think this what ure looking for:

http://lynckia.com/licode/
and
https://github.com/ging/licode

https://github.com/ging/licode/releases

yes and it s a calm bevor the storm:

This is a usable release.
What's in, everything in the previous release plus:

• Chrome, Chrome Android, Firefox and Opera support
• Video, audio and ScreenSharing(only in Chrome)
• Centralised and P2P Rooms
• Data exchange via Websockets
• Recording (to MKV format)
• External Inputs (H.264 via RTSP)
• TURN Support

and much more , test it here

http://chotis2.dit.upm.es/

Am Dienstag, 8. April 2014 15:57:36 UTC+2 schrieb Block:

Hi, Fred

Do you think it difficult to modify it to support p2p likes palava.tv???

 

I shall return!

[Douglas Tang]

Hi, Xonxon

Thanks for your information.But this has no presention

How about it vs BBB?

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[Douglas Tang]

Hi, Fred

I think it is worth to make a HTML5 Client to support p2p so BBB could support large-scale users. It is great!

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Douglas,

For scalability, we're designing the HTML5 client to use a server centric solution in which the BigBlueButton server will stream out the presenter's audio, video, and presentation to all users.  The first version of the HTML5 client will be two-way chat. 

For more details, see

  https://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton/wiki/HTML5

The problem with P2P architecture there would be no recoding and each client would must send/receive audio/video to each other user, limiting how many clients could be connected at once (unless you have unlimited bandwidth between all clients).

We'll be posting more updates on the HTML5 client before the end of the month.

Regards,... Fred

[Cooperativa Ceposs]

Hello everybody,

a lil feedback about the webRTC function on BBB system, i did a test with a 1280x720 video cam + audio.

There was 1 presenter and 2 users, the users watch the video and listen the audio.

Upload bandwidth was in a 450/600 kb/sec, but if you turn left and right or up and down many time the cam the bandwidth go to 750/800 kb/sec and over.

Well the audio was soo good, a really deep and clear voice was possible to listen without clip or noise and no one words was missed.

I think the webRTC + BBB will be a great wedding :)

Michele

[Fred Dixon]

Thanks Michele for the feedback.

Regards,... Fred

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[Xun Cheng]

Fred, when i am deploying BBB dev 0.81 environment on my local server, the WebRTC function can not be invoked properly, i can see the webRTC popup windows, but the function doesn't work after the click. the screen shoot like below:

The system check output like this:

$ sudo bbb-conf --check

 

BigBlueButton Server 0.81 (1554)

                    Kernel version: 2.6.32-57-server

                    Distribution: Ubuntu 10.04.4 LTS (64-bit)

                    Memory: 998 MB

 

/var/www/bigbluebutton/client/conf/config.xml (bbb-client)

                Port test (tunnel): 192.168.0.23

                              Red5: 192.168.0.23

                          'webrtc enabled:

 

/etc/nginx/sites-available/bigbluebutton (nginx)

                       server name: 192.168.0.23

                              port: 80

                    bbb-client dir: /home/chengxun/dev/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton-client

 

/var/lib/tomcat6/webapps/bigbluebutton/WEB-INF/classes/bigbluebutton.properties (bbb-web)

                      bbb-web host: 192.168.0.23

 

/var/lib/tomcat6/webapps/demo/bbb_api_conf.jsp (API demos)

                           api url: 192.168.0.23

 

/usr/share/red5/webapps/bigbluebutton/WEB-INF/red5-web.xml (red5)

                  voice conference: FreeSWITCH

                     capture video: true

                   capture desktop: true

 

/usr/local/bigbluebutton/core/scripts/bigbluebutton.yml (record and playback)

                     playback host: 192.168.0.23

 

 

** Potential problems described below **

# Warning: nginx is not serving the client from /var/www/bigbluebutton/.

# Instead, it's being served from

#

#    /home/chengxun/dev/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton-client

#

# (This is OK if you have setup a development environment.)

 

# Warning: You are running BigBlueButton on a server with less than 2G of memory.  Your

# performance may suffer.

 

# Warning: The API demos are installed and accessible from:

#

#    http://192.168.0.23/

#

# These API demos allow anyone to access your server without authentication

# to create/manage meetings and recordings. They are for testing purposes only.

# If you are running a production system, remove them by running:

#

#    sudo apt-get purge bbb-demo


watch message like below:

 -- ERRORS found in /usr/share/red5/log/* --

/usr/share/red5/log/bigbluebutton.log:2014-04-30 11:21:05,601 [pool-9-thread-1] ERROR o.b.c.s.p.ConversionUpdatesMessageListener - Cannot handle recieved message.

/usr/share/red5/log/bigbluebutton.log:2014-04-30 11:21:08,215 [RTMPMessageExecutor-1] ERROR o.b.w.v.f.a.PopulateRoomCommand - Not XML: [Conference 71759 not found]

/usr/share/red5/log/bigbluebutton.log:2014-04-30 11:34:27,742 [pool-9-thread-1] ERROR o.b.c.s.p.ConversionUpdatesMessageListener - Cannot handle recieved message.

/usr/share/red5/log/bigbluebutton.log:2014-04-30 11:34:29,040 [RTMPMessageExecutor-1] ERROR o.b.w.v.f.a.PopulateRoomCommand - Not XML: [Conference 78118 not found]

/usr/share/red5/log/error.log:2014-04-30 11:21:08,430 [RTMPMessageExecutor-1] ERROR o.r.server.service.ServiceInvoker - Method getRecordingStatus with parameters [] not found in org.bigbluebutton.conference.

service.participants.ParticipantsService@1b38657e

/usr/share/red5/log/error.log:2014-04-30 11:34:29,103 [RTMPMessageExecutor-1] ERROR o.r.server.service.ServiceInvoker - Method getRecordingStatus with parameters [] not found in org.bigbluebutton.conference.

service.participants.ParticipantsService@1b38657e

/usr/share/red5/log/red5.log:2014-04-30 11:21:08,430 [RTMPMessageExecutor-1] ERROR o.r.server.service.ServiceInvoker - Method getRecordingStatus with parameters [] not found in org.bigbluebutton.conference.s

ervice.participants.ParticipantsService@1b38657e

/usr/share/red5/log/red5.log:2014-04-30 11:34:29,103 [RTMPMessageExecutor-1] ERROR o.r.server.service.ServiceInvoker - Method getRecordingStatus with parameters [] not found in org.bigbluebutton.conference.s

ervice.participants.ParticipantsService@1b38657e

 

   -- Exceptions found in /usr/share/red5/log/* --

/usr/share/red5/log/error.log:2014-04-30 11:21:33,754 [NioProcessor-5] WARN  o.r.s.net.rtmp.RTMPMinaIoHandler - Exception caught on session: 4

/usr/share/red5/log/error.log:java.io.IOException: Connection reset by peer

/usr/share/red5/log/error.log:2014-04-30 11:21:33,754 [NioProcessor-8] WARN  o.r.s.net.rtmp.RTMPMinaIoHandler - Exception caught on session: 7

/usr/share/red5/log/error.log:java.io.IOException: Connection reset by peer

/usr/share/red5/log/error.log:2014-04-30 11:21:33,756 [NioProcessor-6] WARN  o.r.s.net.rtmp.RTMPMinaIoHandler - Exception caught on session: 5

/usr/share/red5/log/error.log:java.io.IOException: Connection reset by peer

/usr/share/red5/log/error.log:2014-04-30 11:21:33,773 [NioProcessor-7] WARN  o.r.s.net.rtmp.RTMPMinaIoHandler - Exception caught on session: 6

/usr/share/red5/log/error.log:java.io.IOException: Connection reset by peer

/usr/share/red5/log/red5.log:2014-04-30 11:21:33,754 [NioProcessor-5] WARN  o.r.s.net.rtmp.RTMPMinaIoHandler - Exception caught on session: 4

/usr/share/red5/log/red5.log:java.io.IOException: Connection reset by peer

/usr/share/red5/log/red5.log:2014-04-30 11:21:33,754 [NioProcessor-8] WARN  o.r.s.net.rtmp.RTMPMinaIoHandler - Exception caught on session: 7

/usr/share/red5/log/red5.log:java.io.IOException: Connection reset by peer

/usr/share/red5/log/red5.log:2014-04-30 11:21:33,756 [NioProcessor-6] WARN  o.r.s.net.rtmp.RTMPMinaIoHandler - Exception caught on session: 5

/usr/share/red5/log/red5.log:java.io.IOException: Connection reset by peer

/usr/share/red5/log/red5.log:2014-04-30 11:21:33,773 [NioProcessor-7] WARN  o.r.s.net.rtmp.RTMPMinaIoHandler - Exception caught on session: 6

/usr/share/red5/log/red5.log:java.io.IOException: Connection reset by peer





Is anybody can help me? Thanks in advance.

Yes.  It may be disabled by default, but it will be there in the build.  Our goal is that anyone using BigBlueButton will benefit from higher quality audio.

Q: What are the technical differences in the audio compared to the current release?

In the current release of BigBlueButton (0.81) the audio packets go through the following path [protocol/transmission]

Adobe Flash --[speex (16 Khz) via TCP/IP]--> red5phone --[TCP/IP]--> FreeSWITCH

With webRTC audio, the path is

Browser --[opus (48 Khz) via UDP]--> FreeSWITCH

The path is much shorter, the opus codec has lower latency than speex, and the transport layer is UDP (not TCP/IP).  All these should combine together to give you higher quality and lower latency audio.

Q: Is this the final UI?

No.  This is a developer preview and you can expect the UI to change before reaching beta.

Q: What about leveraging WebRTC video?

That work is underway as part of the development of the HTML5 client.  You'll hear more updates on the progress in the coming months.

Q: What if I'm not using Chrome or Firefox?

In a later build we'll add support for falling back to Flash-based audio in IE and Safari.

Q: I found a bug on this developer preview, should I open an issue?

For now, give us feedback in this thread.  

Once BigBlueButton reaches 0.9.0-beta, then we'll use the issue tracker.  Until then, we need to give the developers time to finish the features.

Q: I want to setup this build on my server, how do I do it?

There is still lot of moving pieces in this build and it's not ready for others to setup.  We're working now on stabilizing the webRTC support for inclusion into the 0.9.0-beta, which, when available, will have a tested set of instructions for setup.

Regards,.. Fred

--

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Xun,

> Fred, when i am deploying BBB dev 0.81 environment on my local server

We're still in development of 0.9.0-dev, and we don't recommend trying to use 0.9.0-dev until we reach beta.

Why?  Because we've been making a lot of changes to the client, server, and packaging -- all in parallel, and the development is not finished yet.  Which, by definitely, means it won't work correctly.

Right now, if we invited others to try building and using BigBlueButton 0.9.0-dev, we would get lots of posts along the lines of "It doesn't work" or "I can't get it to install" or "I've found bugs, where do a report them?"

All of these would be valid because it's still in development.  

Instead, our plan (and this is how we've developed the previous releases) is to finish development first, test it internally, update the documentation (and test that too), and make sure all the obvious bugs are fixed.  Then, and only then, invite others in the community to start using it.  At that point, we've done our best to ensure other developers will (a) have a good experience with BigBlueButton 0.9.0-beta and (b) any bugs they find are going to be the ones we missed and are real bugs.

We'll make an announcement to bigbluebutton-dev once we've reached beta.  For the latest on our progress, see

  https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bigbluebutton-dev/jPpqJhuT7IA/2ylBnIW1B4EJ

Regards,... Fred

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[HostBBB.com]

Xun,   I noticed

                    Memory: 998 MB

Fyi,

You wont be able to run or test server unless you have 2gb, and 4gb is really needed for production.

regards,

Stephen

hostbbb.com

<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priorit

...

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Xun,

It's worth pointint out Xun that even if you setup a development environment with more memory (2G, 4G, etc), it still won't work.  

Your using 0.9.0-dev, and it's still in development and unfinished.

We recommend waiting for 0.9.0-beta and you'll have a *much* better experience as you'll be using a build that is tested and all the core development has been finished.  See

  https://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton/wiki/FAQ#BigBlueButton_Development_Process

Regards,.. Fred 

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