Community feedback request RE: Inheritance Principle

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Robert Smith

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May 13, 2022, 2:17:27 PM5/13/22
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Hi BIDS-ers,

Based on maintainer suggestion I am seeking community feedback on my proposed alteration to the BIDS Inheritance Principle.

I have previously modified the text in the specification explaining how the Inheritance Principle works, as it was somewhat loosely defined and not particularly systematized. Those changes were in part motivated by my intent to now change the rules of the principle itself: the current operation needed to be clearer before a change thereof could be expressed. My proposed change here facilitates the storage of more complex data representations, which become relevant in the context of BIDS Derivatives. But it comes at the cost of increased complexity. So myself and the maintainers would like to know what others' opinions are on how to proceed.

I've written a lot on the topic in relevant links---likely too much for most---so I'm going to try to explain the issue here as succinctly as I can.


The What

Here are two example BIDS datasets, pulled directly from the current specification.

Example 1:
└─ sub-01/    
    └─ ses-test/
       ├─ anat/
       │  └─ sub-01_ses-test_T1w.nii.gz
       └─ func/
          ├─ sub-01_ses-test_task-overtverbgeneration_run-1_bold.nii.gz
          ├─ sub-01_ses-test_task-overtverbgeneration_run-2_bold.nii.gz
          ├─ sub-01_ses-test_task-overtverbgeneration_bold.json
          └─ sub-01_ses-test_task-overtverbgeneration_run-2_bold.json

Example 2:
└─ sub-01/
    └─ ses-test/
       ├─ sub-01_ses-test_task-overtverbgeneration_bold.json
       ├─ anat/
       │  └─ sub-01_ses-test_T1w.nii.gz
       └─ func/
          ├─ sub-01_ses-test_task-overtverbgeneration_run-1_bold.nii.gz
          ├─ sub-01_ses-test_task-overtverbgeneration_run-2_bold.nii.gz
          └─ sub-01_ses-test_task-overtverbgeneration_run-2_bold.json

Note move of file "sub-01_ses-test_task-overtverbgeneration_bold.json" from "sub-01/ses-test/func/" to "sub-01/ses-test/".

In the current specification:
  • Example 1 is illegal: NIfTI image for run 2 has multiple applicable JSON files in one directory, and that's not allowed.
  • Example 2 is one possible workaround to make the dataset legal.
  • Example 1 is legal (and indeed in my opinion the preferable of the two).
  • Example 2 is permissible, but it's kinda weird to put a "_bold.json" file in the ses-test/ directory rather than the func/ directory.

The why
  • Removes what I think is an ill-directed, ultimately unnecessary restriction on dataset construction.

  • Facilitates construction of more complex data, particularly when it comes to derivatives.

    I have myself run into this limitation in the context of diffusion MRI voxel-level models, but I foresee that the issue is far more general, so I'll try to present it here absent context-specifics.
    Imagine we fit a voxel-wise model to the data. We'd like to store metadata relating to the nature of the model, how it was fitted, and any input parameters that may have been set; it makes sense to store that information only once. The output of that model fit includes multiple output parameters, and each of those parameters have different units to one another; so we put those in separate images and encode their units in file-specific metadata.
    One (simplified) way we could propose that such data be stored is:
  • └─ sub-01/
       └─ dwi/
          ├─ sub-01_param-X_model.nii.gz
          ├─ sub-01_param-X_model.json
          ├─ sub-01_param-Y_model.nii.gz
          ├─ sub-01_param-Y_model.json
          └─ sub-01_model.json
    We put any metadata that applies to the whole model fit in "sub-01_model.json", and the units of parameters X and Y are specified in files "sub-01_param-X_model.json" and "sub-01_param-Y_model.json" respectively.
    Problem: the current specification renders this structure illegal.

    While there are alternative proposal structures for complex derivatives (e.g. see ramblings here) that might bypass this specific issue, I wouldn't want the inheritance principle limitation to be a primary motivating factor for resorting to one of those alternatives, especially if said limitation can be resolved.

  • All existing datasets that satisfy the current principle will satisfy the revised principle (ie. it's backwards-compatible).

The why not
  • Increased complexity, and therefore potentially reduced accessibility.
    (though I'd argue that users can simply neglect to make use of this advanced feature; most exploitations of this capability will come from BIDS Apps outputs)

  • BIDS APIs across multiple software languages would need to be altered to satisfy the revised principle.

  • The validator would need to be altered to satisfy the revised principle.

  • While it would not introduce backward-incompatibility, it would introduce forward-incompatibility: datasets that exploit the new version of the specification would be illegal under a prior version of the specification.
-----------

I hope that's enough content to understand the situation and formulate an opinion.
There's a lot of possible tangent discussions here, some of which I may have riffed on in the various GitHub links. Happy to either provide additional links or feed forward what thought I've put into related issues or alternatives thus far.

Cheers
Rob

--

Robert Smith, Ph.D
Senior Research Officer, Epilepsy Neuroinformatics Laboratory

The Florey Institute of Neuroscience and Mental Health
Melbourne Brain Centre - Austin Campus
245 Burgundy Street
Heidelberg VIC 3084 Australia
Ph: +61 3 9035 7128
Fax: +61 3 9035 7301
www.florey.edu.au

MRtrix3: Advanced tools for the analysis of diffusion MRI data
Website - Repository - Community forum 

Australian National Imaging Facility Fellow
http://anif.org.au
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Erdal Karaca

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May 13, 2022, 3:51:29 PM5/13/22
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In terms of an algorithmic implementation, both examples seem plausible to me: the more entities/suffix match with the imaging file, the more specific the meta-data file is.

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Kay Robbins

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May 16, 2022, 6:11:24 PM5/16/22
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This would work provided that no primary keys were in both JSON files at the same level, otherwise there is no way to specify which takes precedence.

From: bids-di...@googlegroups.com <bids-di...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Erdal Karaca <erdal.k...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2022 2:51 PM
To: bids-di...@googlegroups.com <bids-di...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [bids-discussion] Community feedback request RE: Inheritance Principle
 
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Robert Smith

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May 17, 2022, 5:50:05 PM5/17/22
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> This would work provided that no primary keys were in both JSON files at the same level, otherwise there is no way to specify which takes precedence.

 

The proposed revision includes an explicit rule that governs the order in which metadata files should be loaded, and therefore which file contents would take precedence in the presence of duplicate keys. This covers not only ordering across the directory structure but also the presence of multiple applicable metadata files within a single directory. It then additionally provides an example that demonstrates the scenario where it is not possible to determine such precedence, which by design violates the inheritance rule as written.

 

Rob

 

 

From: bids-di...@googlegroups.com <bids-di...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Kay Robbins
Sent: Tuesday, 17 May 2022 8:11 AM
To: bids-di...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [EXT] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [bids-discussion] Community feedback request RE: Inheritance Principle

 

External email: Please exercise caution

 


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