Car rental

[Mark Boyd]

When touring in Europe or Canada, which have good public transportation, I have always counted on train or bus travel for those times when I needed to get somewhere without riding. In the US, which doesn't have good public transportation, I've counted on being able to rent a car. Last summer, in Madison Indiana where I lived as a child and which is a fairly popular tourist destination, I tried to rent a car and failed. Reading Denis' ride report yesterday, I was reminded of  that experience  by the difficulty had in getting home at the end of his tour.

As it turned out, not being able to rent a car in Madison was actually good for me last summer, but this issue, which now seems to be quite widespread in the US, could really be quite a problem for me on month-long US tours that I hope to take in the future. I can still ride pretty much anywhere in the eastern or central US in a month. If I can't easily rent a car, which is something I've usually done to get to the start or to get home from the end of those kinds of tours and always counted on in case of injury or emergency during a US tour, I'll be very limited in where I can tour.

Does anyone have a suggestion for how to work around this problem?

 

             Mark

[Colin Brander]

Mark,

From what I've read, car companies have cut down on their inventories during Covid-19, to reduce costs, due to lack of travel and rentals. In Vancouver, BC, a one-day rental seems to now run about $150 on a weekend, which is crazy. I suspect, as travel resumes, car rental inventories will slowly increase, and availability will improve. In the interim, I think the only option is to plan and book ahead.

Colin

---

From: bicycle...@googlegroups.com <bicycle...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mark Boyd <mark...@gmail.com>
Sent: October 8, 2021 11:26
To: touring <bicycle...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [touring] Car rental

 

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[aeroperf]

By far the best solution I’ve found in the US is a partner.  Drive to the start, leave one person and the bikes, the partner drives close to where you think the end is likely to be, leaves the car and finds alternate transportation to the start.

I’ve also planned a couple of trips around Amtrak, starting and ending where they say bikes are allowed for roll-on, roll-off.  This can be sporting, but both trips worked.

One other thing I’ve done is packed and shipped the bike to a bike store at the start, and flown to meet it.  It is kind of a pain, and you risk bicycle damage, but that did work.  And with the price of rental cars, this may be becoming more cost effective.

In my opinion the US is just not bicycle friendly.  That applies to on-the-road as well as transportation from the start or finish of a tour.  I feel extremely lucky to be able to tour in Europe.

Jack

Across northern Spain.  Even the narrow gauge train cars have bike straps.

[Bob Carlson]

In 2016 we did a tour from Amsterdam to Stockholm, with occasional train segments. We used a train from Helsingborg, SE to Kungsbakka on the west coast with no problem. However, needing to pick up a few days, we tried to get a train part way across Sweden, but only SJ serves that direction. They allow only folded or disassembled and packaged bikes, useless for tourists. We managed to rent a Volvo in Göteborg near the train station. Talking with the rental guy, he said SJ is basically user hostile. He tried to get them to send someone over to help a disabled couple to the train station and the reply was “Nope!” Or rather “Nej!”. 

The bottom line is don’t every rely on SJ in Sweden. Other than that it was great touring.

Funny story, the Pokemon app came out right then. Our first encounter with it was when my wife and I were eating in a restaurant in a tiny town in Sweden. She saw a person out the window fall over while riding a bike and looking at their phone. Pokemon in action. The waitress said yeah, that’s been happening all over town.

-Bob
Tucson AZ

(72, so far just contemplating an ebike)

[Gary Gilbert]

I had an "interesting" experience about a month ago.

I left my car at the ending point of a  planned 3 day tour and found a local bike shop that was able to give me a ride to my starting point about 125 miles away.

After arriving at my hotel I had a kidney stone that decided it was time to cause a problem.

Faced with finding a way back to my car (I was in no shape to cycle),  I tried Uber unsuccessfully. The town had no taxi or limo service.  The Amtrak station had no baggage car service in that town and even if they did it would have left me 40 miles from my car.    Eventually the desk clerk handed me a business card of a woman who had dropped off her "transportation services" business card and within 30 minutes I was on my way back.  Fortunately I had sufficient cash to pay her fee.. 

I could have waited 2 days in Jackson Michigan for the stone to pass and then start my ride but with a kidney stone one never knows how long the pain will last.

Gary

--

[stev...@gmail.com]

Hi Guys:

Currently, I'm anticipating my first cross-country ride in 2022 at age 70.   I did a 650 miles ride this summer from Manitowoc WI to Omaha area and it went well. Tent camped 7 out of 10 days.  In the past I've usually limited myself to 3 weeks maximum since I'm self-employed and don't like to leave clients for longer periods.  But COVID has worked to my advantage.  I find that clients have gotten use to not seeing me and in many cases don't want to. So, it's getting easier to set up telephone conferences than in the past.  My flip phone holds battery charge very well and I never worry about looking for a place to plug in.  Usually I leave if off most of the day and then check for messages in the evening.

COVID has definitely changed people's mentality in regard to face-to-face interaction.  Last winter I took my pickup truck with pop-up camper and headed off to the deserts of Arizona (with two bikes) and was able to hang out there very well.  I had a couple times where I had to sit with a computer and cell phone on speaker and do some work. But otherwise, things took care of themselves.  I've had several friends who left town for months without the employer knowing. They'd do Zoom calls and then go for a walk in the desert.  Pretty Funny and nice if you're lucky enough to be a 'knowledge' worker.

Anyway, my thought for the 2022 ride is to take a rental car from Minneapolis/St.Paul  (I live in Western Wisconsin, about 30 miles away) and drive out to Boston in late April. There,  I've a cousin who lives in a suburb. I could drop off the vehicle, set up the bike and then head west.  I'm thinking to average ~60 miles/day (including periodic rest days) and take a relaxed ride across the country.  3800-4000 miles.  70 days should do it.   Probably go over the mountains at Teton Pass and continue on to Portland Oregon.  Then take the AmTrak, Empire Builder back to St. Paul.

I've used Amtrak for point-to-point rollon but have no faith in them not screwing up my boxed bike, especially making a transfer at via Chicago.  If I got to Boston and found no bike, I'd be a bit irritated.  When coming back home, I can live with luggage screw-ups.  But not at the beginning of the trip.

I don't really feel too put off by lack of public transport in the USA.  It is such a BIG Continent and such LOW population density.  People in cities feel so intimidated by the vastness.  I find it liberating.  So easy to put up a tent or sleep under the stars without being hassled.  The further west I go, the better I like it.  

I have traveled plenty in Europe and I use the trains and stay at hostels and enjoy that as well.  But it is an entirely different mentality and mode of movement.  With the high population density, it's possible to have the high level of transport.  I remind my friends that Minnesota had the same surface area (I think around 86,000 Square Miles) as the UK.  But with less than 6 million people.  The UK has a population of 10x as many.  Yikes!   And Minnesota has a much higher population density than states to the west.

Steve

Steve O'Rourke

P.O. Box 538
Baldwin, WI  54002
 
Bicycle Trips: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/ScoutSteve 
 

"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it!"

---Goethe quoted in The Scottish Himalayan Expedition by Murray  

[rlti...@gmail.com]

You must not have been to CA yet :). At a recent high school reunion I’d say about 80% of the people I talked to had either left or were planning on leaving CA. 

I have a 4x4 camper van we use to get off the grid. One problem with COVID is the explosion in the “overlanding” trend.  People couldn’t travel outside the US so they all bought RV’s/off-road campers. That, coupled with the “vanlife” trend, has made things busy in the back country. 

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 28, 2021, at 9:42 AM, stev...@gmail.com <stev...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't really feel too put off by lack of public transport in the USA.  It is such a BIG Continent and such LOW population density.  People in cities feel so intimidated by the vastness.  I find it liberating.  So easy to put up a tent or sleep under the stars without being hassled.  The further west I go, the better I like it.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bicycletouring/a5aec5b4-2b85-46ea-b396-47fe54825568n%40googlegroups.com.

[Denis]

Steve,

I have used Amtrak a number of times, both boxing the bike and just handing the bike to put on the train.  I've never had a problem with my bike on Amtrak yet but I've never had a connection either.

Since you only mention boxing the bike I wonder if you are aware that you can just hand Amtrak your bike and avoid boxing it up.  In the case of a connection, if you do this I believe you have to retrieve your bike at the connection and hand it to Amtrak again for the connecting train.  Not as convenient as having Amtrak transfer your boxed bike to the connecting train but maybe that would make you feel more comfortable.

That said, be very careful that you can actually get your bike on the train (at a station with baggage service).  This past September I was dismayed to find that I couldn't get a bike slot (sold out) nor a bike box (none available) when I wanted to return home from La Junta, CO.  I was fortunate that I found a bike shop 11 miles from La Junta (Rocky Ford) where I was able to get the bike boxed up and shuttled to La Junta.  When I contacted Amtrak to verify that no bike slots or bike boxes were available, I was told that more folks were traveling with bikes and so bike slots were more likely to sell out.  Based on what the Amtrak rep told me it also sounded like there were fewer bike slots available.  Amtrak is very cost conscious these days since there are fewer folks traveling so they may have cut back on bike slots.  For bike boxes, it was suggested the La Junta station probably had an order out for bike boxes and supply chain issues may have been a problem.

If you decided to take Amtrak to Boston I suspect his would be less of an issue since you would likely be able to buy your ticket well in advance.  The return trip on Amtrak would likely be more of an issue unless you set a hard return date so you could buy your return ticket well in advance.  In my case, I was purchasing my ticket just a couple of days in advance, something I never had a problem with before.

Of course, all of this is based on my experience this past September.  Things may well be different if you travel by train next summer.

Denis

[Mark Boyd]

On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 12:42 PM stev...@gmail.com <stev...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Guys:

Currently, I'm anticipating my first cross-country ride in 2022 at age 70.   I did a 650 miles ride this summer from Manitowoc WI to Omaha area and it went well. Tent camped 7 out of 10 days.  In the past I've usually limited myself to 3 weeks maximum since I'm self-employed and don't like to leave clients for longer periods.  But COVID has worked to my advantage.  I find that clients have gotten use to not seeing me and in many cases don't want to. So, it's getting easier to set up telephone conferences than in the past.  My flip phone holds battery charge very well and I never worry about looking for a place to plug in.  Usually I leave if off most of the day.

....

Anyway, my thought for the 2022 ride is to take a rental car from Minneapolis/St.Paul  (I live in Western Wisconsin, about 30 miles away) and drive out to Boston in late April. There,  I've a cousin who lives in a suburb. I could drop off the vehicle, set up the bike and then head west.  I'm thinking to average ~60 miles/day (including periodic rest days) and take a relaxed ride across the country.  3800-4000 miles.  70 days should do it.   Probably go over the mountains at Teton Pass and continue on to Portland Oregon.  Then take the AmTrak, Empire Builder back to St. Paul.

That sounds reasonable to me, except maybe for the late April start date. I'd probably start a little later than that if I were starting that far north.

I've already seen lots of climate change effects in my 25 years of doing summer tours in the US, and Europe, so I don't think we can predict the weather early next summer, but I would still plan to start a little later. You have a somewhat flexible starting schedule given the nature of your employment and the fact that you are travelling to your starting point by rental car.

Your plan to use Teton pass might become problematic if you run into bad weather in Wyoming. It is a very sparsely populated state and can have very high winds. I once had to rent a car in Laramie because the winds were so strong I couldn't ride my bike to the nearest areas with service going either north or west. I rented a car and drove to Jackson Hole so I could ride west the next day via the Snake River. That was a really good ride, but  with very few services.

Portland makes sense as your destination. I used it as my destination on several cross USA rides starting from my home in NC. I would suggest you consider going through Canada rather than under the Great Lakes in the US. The riding is MUCH better through Canada. Riding through Buffalo, going over the Peace Bridge and then crossing through Canada - Hamilton - Woodstock- London - and then taking the ferry to Alonac MI and going north of Detroit is the first part of the route I would use if I were riding from the Boston area to Portland

       Mark

[j.m.ay...@gmail.com]

Last summer I did a Denver-to-Milwaukee tour, and returned via Amtrak.  Used the roll-on service but did have to retrieve my bike in Chicago before putting it on the train to Denver.  It wasn't bad, but that Chicago station is very poorly managed and very chaotic.  Almost missed my train!

I'm doing another tour next summer but have soured a bit on Amtrak as a way to get places.  It's slow.  The roll-on service is hard to reserve (fewer slots, as someone else said).  Having reserved a spot, if your dates change you could well become stuck somewhere if slots for your bike aren't available on the other date.  On top of all that, I got sick being on that train to Denver for 18 hours.  It wasn't Covid, but was the mother of all colds.  Pretty sure it's because they weren't sanitizing tables in the dining car between every customer as they should be.

So next summer, I'm also renting a car to get to/from my starting spot (Milwaukee again for a circle around Lake Michigan). It's more flexible, faster, and definitely cheaper than the sleeper cabins!  I like trains, but they are harder to use here than necessary.  

Good luck on your tour!

John

[Mark Boyd]

On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 9:15 AM Steve ORourke <stev...@gmail.com> wrote:

Mark:

Thanks for the suggestions.

My main consideration with the early start date from Boston is that I'd prefer to cross the midwest before it gets too steamy. May 5 is a date I've got in my head for the actual start...  Also, I figured that the western passes would be open by mid June.  I've gone over Teton Pass on a bike and have much better gearing than when I did it in 2007.  Some compensation for getting older....   I used to mountain climb in Wyoming and know there will still be plenty of snow piled up at the higher elevations.  But, I also figure it'll be mostly melting. I'll have to keep alert for hungry bears!  I've been at high elevations climbing in mid July when it's icing up and snowing.  So I know what's possible.  But I can hunker down if I need to.

 

I'm quite good at handling heat, especially when there is some wind to cool me down and the humidity is not so high that sweat doesn't evaporate, so I've rarely found heat to be a problem on the plains. My current favorite plains state is Nebraska and I especially like crossing it on US 34.  Kansas is much windier and the Dakotas are OK but Montana sucks because of the culture, and Wyoming wins can be too strong. Then, if I'm heading to Portland, I go across northern Colorado through Fort Collins before heading up into Western Wyoming before following the Snake River into Idaho, going up north of Boise and into Oregon at Vale. In Idaho I pretty much follow bike 76 route to Eugene and then go up the valley to Portland. 

I know what you mean about lack of services.  I always carry extra tubes and a spare tire, brake and shifter cables, chain links, etc.  My Long Haul Trucker has bar-end shifters and the brakes are center-pull. So my mechanicals are relatively simple.  I've 26" tires so, in a pinch, I've been able to get tubes and tires at Ace hardware or Walmart.  And the credit card can be helpful. The universal solvent.  

I carry all of the above plus ffood and water enough for a night camping.  It can be a long way to the nearest place - Walmart.usually in the US - to buy a new tire. My European upright touring bike is the original 2008 LHT with 700c wheels. I had to upgrade a lot of its original parts, but it has served me well.

I don't underestimate the challenge.  The winds are the main thing out on the plains! I can imagine renting a car if you end up faced with weeks of howling headwinds.  Bad luck in weather is one of those things you can't plan for.  A long stretch of bad weather can destroy a guy.  
I've ridden in Canada several times in the past decade.  Both in Quebec and out in western provinces.  A different kettle of fish.  Big country north of Wisconsin and Michigan.  Trees.   Roads are good.

I loved Quebec and the Gaspe.   ( I recall having conversations with old Sheldon Brown.  He loved rural Quebec, a real Francophone.  And I could see why. )  But I don't like the trans-Canadian Highway, at least out west.  Aesthetic preference.

I also miss Seldon and that bike shop. I still use Sheldonbrown.com. I never talked to Sheldon on the phone, but I once heard him talking in the background while I was on the phone to Harris Cyclery.

 
My intent is to probably cross New York and drop down south of Cleveland and then cross Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Iowa, drifting across northern Nebraska and into Wyoming. Go over the Winds from Riverton and down into Jackson Hole. (I used to climb in the Tetons regularly)  Haven't thought the route out much past eastern Idaho.

 

The roads on that brief section I recommended through Canada are quite nice. It is very rural as opposed to the route through Cleveland. I went through Pontiac MI which actually has good bike trails. That is important since the car traffic there is intense. 

 

My experience with those four states other than Iowa is good. Iowa is a nice state with great people,  but the major roads have no, or very little paved shoulders and the minor roads that  I've used to try to avoid the big roads were very hilly. I found it dangerous to ride across.  Because of that, it, like Montana, is on the small list of US states that I've only ridden across once.

             Mark

[Denis]

Just to expand on my September travel arrangements, my planned tour was to start from Salt Lake City, ride east through the Rockies trying to beat myself up as much as possible with climbing, and return from Colorado or New Mexico.  I considered renting a car and driving from the Chicago area to Salt Lake city and quickly nixed that as too much driving.  I also considered taking Amtrak to Salt Lake city but didn't like the idea of spending about a day and a half in close proximity to other passengers while also wearing a mask.  I didn't consider a sleeper since I'm frugal (cheap?) and a sleeper typically costs $400-500 more than a coach ticket.  So that left flying as my choice.  That meant I would only be spending about 4 hours in close proximity to others while wearing a mask, far better than 36 hours on the train.  Packing up the bicycle in a bike box was relatively easy since I had a lot of time to get a bicycle box and do the actual packing.  Fortunately, I was able to fly Southwest where I only had to pay $75 to take my bike, compared to $150-200 on the other airlines.  It was a bit of a pain to put my bike back together again in Salt Lake City but I had plenty of time to do that since I didn't plan to start riding until the next day.

The return travel was rather more complicated.  I ruled out flying because I would have had to get a bike box and pack up and get to an airport, much more difficult/hassle when returning than when leaving.  Since I still didn't want to spend about 19 hours in close proximity to others, I nixed Amtrak for the return.  That left renting a car and driving to the Chicago area.  That was my plan.

When I got to Alamosa, CO, I had to make a decision.  Originally I planned to ride south to Antonito so I could ride to Chama, NM.  I had ridden this route on the Cumbres and Toltec Railroad on a previous trip but I wanted to ride this route on a bicycle.  However, I discovered I could not get a rental care in Santa Fe as I thought I would be able to.  Fortunately, pre-planning my trip I saw that I could rent a car in Pueblo, CO and I found I still could do so.  That meant I had to skip my ride to Chama, NM and head east to Pueblo, which was only a 3-4 day ride.

However, when I was a day away from Pueblo, I decided to check the Amtrak schedule from La Junta, which was 2 riding days away.  I won't complicate this narrative with why I happened to check the Amtrak schedule (I had no plan to use Amtrak at that point).  But I was surprised to see that a sleeper car was available whereas I had been under the impression that sleeper cars sold out well in advance.  At that point a light bulb fired in my brain and I realized that the cost of a sleeper was going to be about what it would have cost to drive a rental car, everything considered (rental fee, food, motel, gas).  A sleeper also removed my concern about spending 19 hours in close proximity to others.  So I excitedly tried to make a sleeper reservation only to discover that no bike slots were available and the La Junta station didn't have any bike boxes.

I was crestfallen and resigned to a rental car but when I woke up on the morning I was going to riding to Pueblo I made a last gasp effort to see if there was a bike shop that might be able to pack up my bike in a bike box.  That's when I discovered the Arkansas Valley Cycles shop in Rocky Ford, 11 miles from La Junta and the rest is history.  My sleeper did cost $500 more than a coach ticket but I was able to justify that and the sleeper turned out to be a good experience.  I was much happier wiling away the time in my sleeper than I would have been driving a rental car for many hours (long distance driving is not my forte).  Amtrak was a little late for its 7:29 pm La Junta arrival but when I got on the train I was told to immediately go to the dining car if I wanted dinner (meals are included with a sleeper).  I did so I enjoyed a decent salmon dinner with a beer, just a couple of days after I thought I was going to be stuck with driving a rental car.  It was a great way to start the return trip.

Note that none of this is meant to suggest my travel decisions were the right ones - they were simply my choices.  But this trip underscored the uncertainties these days with both rental cars and train travel with a bicycle.  In the past, I've planned my return via Amtrak and was always able to get a decent (coach) fare ($100-150) just a couple days in advance of my return and had no problem accommodating my bicycle.  I thought that was the way the world was supposed to work...

Denis

[Kelly Iniguez]

We have had limited success with one way car rentals. In 2020, we got a great price on a one way rental from Grand Junction, CO to Tucson, AZ. We then bicycled to the Canadian border. It was impossible to find a one way rental anywhere near our finish in Eureka, MT. We rented a uHaul. 

Just now I am talking about a Utah tour with a friend for May, 2022. I cannot get a one way rental from CO to St George, UT, although he can get one from his home in Oregon. However, for the return from Boise, ID, he could only get a one way rental to Eugene, OR, as opposed to his hometown. I couldn’t get anything from there either. 

We speculate that Colorado has high rental car demands and doesn’t want to let their cars go for a one way rental. However, I could get a one way Budget car rental to Tucson right now . . .  . 

We are willing to rent the smallest uHaul and buy the fuel . . . . it’s part of the cost. 

I ride an eight foot long recumbent, I’ve never tried Amtrak - although I read enviously of wheeling bikes right on . . . I have successfully shipped my bike a few times. By the time I pay someone to pack/unpack, plus shipping both ways, and adding in the uncertainty of damage during shipping - we drive to the start. 

Each person’s experience and comfort level is different.

Kelly

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bicycletouring/d6e32689-a907-46d6-b15d-07f0cd59aeadn%40googlegroups.com.

[cliffallo]

I’ve used the AMTRAK box several times each time without difficulty.

2006 Williston MT to Seattle

2010 New York to Seattle with a change in Chicago but  on a through ticket

2011 Tacoma to Boston on a re-routed (there were floods) through ticket with a changes in Sacramento and Chicago

My point about a through ticket is that the bike box was marked and accepted as having a destination of either Seattle or Boston upon acceptance. 

I prefer going West to East and have reasonable familiarity with the major options north of Adventure Cycling’s TransAm. If you would like, we can consult on email off list.

One immediate thought, however, is to skip the east coast and instead do a round trip to Washington or Oregon and back home. 

In the east, the Mohawk Erie Canal into Massachusetts and then the Farmington Canal path down to New Haven is a nice finish and the Great Allegheny Passage is a marvel but getting to either Niagara Falls or Pittsburgh can be more aggravation than fun. Far fewer opportunities simply to pitch a tent though Mark, the “Wild Camper,” might disagree. 

Another factor is whether a nice ride or seeing iconic tourist attractions is the higher priority. Having seen all the good stuff on previous car trips, by the time I started touring in my mid-fifties, I knew that a bicycle within Yellowstone National Park was not a guarantee of fun. And experience has shown that US 2 and Montana 200 are nice rides across Montana. 

On Nov 28, 2021, at 9:42 AM, stev...@gmail.com <stev...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Guys:

Currently, I'm anticipating my first cross-country ride in 2022 at age 70.   I did a 650 miles ride this summer from Manitowoc WI to Omaha area and it went well. Tent camped 7 out of 10 days.  In the past I've usually limited myself to 3 weeks maximum since I'm self-employed and don't like to leave clients for longer periods.  But COVID has worked to my advantage.  I find that clients have gotten use to not seeing me and in many cases don't want to. So, it's getting easier to set up telephone conferences than in the past.  My flip phone holds battery charge very well and I never worry about looking for a place to plug in.  Usually I leave if off most of the day <image0 (1).jpeg>and then check for messages in the evening.

COVID has definitely changed people's mentality in regard to face-to-face interaction.  Last winter I took my pickup truck with pop-up camper and headed off to the deserts of Arizona (with two bikes) and was able to hang out there very well.  I had a couple times where I had to sit with a computer and cell phone on speaker and do some work. But otherwise, things took care of themselves.  I've had several friends who left town for months without the employer knowing. They'd do Zoom calls and then go for a walk in the desert.  Pretty Funny and nice if you're lucky enough to be a 'knowledge' worker.

Anyway, my thought for the 2022 ride is to take a rental car from Minneapolis/St.Paul  (I live in Western Wisconsin, about 30 miles away) and drive out to Boston in late April. There,  I've a cousin who lives in a suburb. I could drop off the vehicle, set up the bike and then head west.  I'm thinking to average ~60 miles/day (including periodic rest days) and take a relaxed ride across the country.  3800-4000 miles.  70 days should do it.   Probably go over the mountains at Teton Pass and continue on to Portland Oregon.  Then take the Amtrak, Empire Builder back to St. Paul.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bicycletouring/a5aec5b4-2b85-46ea-b396-47fe54825568n%40googlegroups.com.
<image0 (1).jpeg>

[Bob Carlson]

“... but getting to either Niagara Falls or Pittsburgh”

I disagree! But agreeably! We crossed into Ontario at a ferry north of Detroit that is no longer running, but I believe there are other options. Then we rode along the N cost of Lake Erie eventually approaching Niagara Falls from up river. First you see Buffalo across the lake, then it narrows to a river. Finally you see mist in the distance, then the sound and last the sight of the falls. It was my first time there and a GREAT way to see it. The riding through Ontario was great all the way. We did a rest day on the Canadian side and then rode down river to the Lewiston-Queenston Bridge. Though the  bridge is so big I have no idea how many lanes it had, the ride across was no problem, at least first thing in the morning. Then it’s a pleasant ride to Lockport to get onto the Erie Canal.

Bob

Tucson, AZ

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bicycletouring/3132A1B1-F8F3-4EDF-A099-CF1B52EFAB1A%40comcast.net.

[Gary Gilbert]

Port Huron Michigan is about 60 miles north of Detroit. You can get shuttled across the Blue Water Bridge via taxi which is expensive or wait for the bridge authority to shuttle you across which I have read is not always easy and depends on their good will.

Starting in 2024 the Gordie Howe Bridge between Detroit and Windsor will allow bicycles.

https://detroitgreenways.org/projects/gordie-howe-international-bridge/

Gary

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 4, 2021, at 5:37 PM, Bob Carlson <lostint...@rjcarlson.com> wrote:

“... but getting to either Niagara Falls or Pittsburgh”

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bicycletouring/754A7B5E-C7FB-45F4-8FAA-FEDB672445D5%40rjcarlson.com.

[stev...@gmail.com]

Thank you Gary (and everyone else)

I have appreciated to all the responses and have responded to some off line and am taking all the information in.  Lots of good ideas for me to weigh.

Specifically regarding going up into Canada via Detroit, I probably will forego that idea for now.  I've several touch points along the way that I'd like to visit.  I expect to go thru Iowa and Nebraska and Wyoming.  No specific roads picked out yet but I'm pretty certain as to the general areas I'll be going thru.

Should anyone be interested,  I'm currently putting up a Crazyguy  travelogue regarding my 2019 50th high school reunion ride:   http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/23824

A return to an American Graffiti type experience in Northern Illinois  No good musical soundtrack.  (My preference would have been Beachboys)

Steve

[John Gorentz]

On 12/5/2021 8:48 AM, stev...@gmail.com wrote:

> Should anyone be interested,  I'm currently putting up a Crazyguy 
> travelogue regarding my 2019 50th high school reunion ride:
> http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/23824
> A return to an American Graffiti type experience in Northern Illinois 
> No good musical soundtrack.  (My preference would have been Beachboys)

I enjoyed that, reading it while following along on a map of all the
routes I've taken through that country, usually in the opposite direction.

After my parents died in 2015, I did some from my home in southwest
Michigan to family places in Minnesota.  I usually circle around Joliet,
Crete, etc. going further south and west than you did, but I've
sometimes wondered about routes a little closer to the big city.

The 2016 trip could have been a class trip ride in the opposite
direction of yours. That was 50 years since I graduated from a small
high school in north-central Minnesota. After I got home from my ride I
learned that my class had decided at the last minute to have a 50th
anniversary get-together. (It was surprising to me how many of my class
were still living in the area.) I told them I would have come if I had
known, because I was just finishing up my ride to Minnesota when they
got together.

I took the ferry across Lake Michigan that time, and finished the
Sparta-Elroy trail just before the rains came and did a lot of damage to
Wisconsin trails. My wife and I were holed up in Sparta a couple of days
, and other bicyclers were, too. I wonder if the damage ever got
repaired. (She goes by car, and I by bicycle.)

In 2017 a slightly more formal reunion was held, a year late, the same
weekend we had a family reunion in the same area. My wife and I
attended, but I saved my 1000 mile bicycle ride to the same area for
later that year.

I was doing a 3rd in 2019 (again with my wife joining me by car, and us
taking off-days to do other things together) in segments of a several
days at a time, then going home to mow the lawn, etc., intending to
swing almost all the way over to St. Louis before heading north. I got
to that latitude before swinging north but didn't go over to East St
Louis. But then we got held up by some of the same rains you rode
through. I didn't ride on rainy days, and as a result didn't make it all
the way by bicycle to the niece's wedding where we were headed,
finishing the bicycling at Prairie du Chien.

I was thinking of doing another ride to Minnesota this past year, but it
didn't come off. Because of covid my wife preferred the method of
staying at an AirBnB while I did several rides in one area, and we
didn't do a lot of that, even. I did get in one four-day
point-to-point-to-point ride that I had done in three days when I was 23
years younger.  I'm not sure yet about 2022.

John Gorentz

[stev...@gmail.com]

Hi John:

I enjoyed reading about your several rides across the upper Midwest.  

One of the issues I often have is to how to get around a big Metro area.  Chicago hasn't a lot of options because of Lake Michigan. That's why the railroads starting in the 1850s all bunched up there when coming from the east.  A real choke point.

One solution I've suggest, especially for cross-country riders who don't want to do the Ferry across from Michigan to Wisconsin is to follow the old Canals across Illinois.  If you check out my travelogue here:   http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/IllnoisStagecoachAndCanals2012  I started on the Old Plank Road Trail near the Indiana Border and crossed nearly all of Illinois following two canal systems.  One was the Illinois and Michigan Canal.  Some info for that canal here: https://bikeiandm.com/i-and-m-map.aspx

There was a gap between the end of that canal at Peru Illinois and the "Hennepin Canal" Which started up and headed further west. See: https://bikehennepin.com/  This continues all the way to the Quad-Cities and the Mississippi.  So, it's a slick way to cross Illinois w/ little traffic and a lot of attractive miles along water.  

I might use this route again next year when crossing the USA. 

Here is a mid-September 2021 update on repairs on the Elroy-Sparta Trail: https://www.devilslakewisconsin.com/2021/09/16/elroy-sparta-state-trail-update/ 

Steve

[John Gorentz]

Thanks, Steve. That is helpful. 

Back in 2004 I road east from Valparaiso to Crown Point and Cedar Lake, and then across into Illinois (after getting lost late at night). I said I wasn't going to ride that way again until I had better maps, and I haven't. I've gone south from Valparaiso, though, before heading west, and then north again. 

But now that you mention it, I can see how to use the Old Plank Road to more-or-less connect through Joliet with the canal route along the Illinois River. I've ridden parts of that canal trail between Morris and Peru, but always just short segments of it here and there.  Seems to me parts of it have been closed off at times.  But north of the Illinois River there are a lot of good routes to take, so it doesn't matter that much. 

After you pointed out the Plank Road trail, the sticking point for me was connecting with it from the east. But I use the heatmap on the RideWithGPS route planner now, and it is showing me some possibilities I had been unaware of. It looks like those better maps I had wished for after the 2004 ride are now here.  

Using that Old Plank Road will get me close to some southwest Michigan history sites.  The local Potawatomi Indian reservation was founded by a couple of men who escaped from the deportation that was conducted at gunpoint in 1840, came back to Michigan, and after the fuss died down used their treaty money to buy their own reservation of 140 acres.  I rode through it this summer and it's now a far more prosperous-looking place than it was in the 1990s, thanks to income from their nearby casino on I-94.   One of the elders once told me she and others had been taken on a bus tour to the place where the escape had occurred, but I didn't think it would be polite to press her for the exact location and she probably didn't know, anyway, having been taken around by bus like that.  Seems to me it's near Frankfort, but I'd have to look up what is more generally known about it. That would be close enough to be worth my making a ride out of it. 

Thanks, again, for your suggestions.

John

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[Gary Gilbert]

An alternate route through Chicago includes these trails starting in Chesterton Indiana.  We used these on the last day of  a tour from Xenia Ohio to Chicago in the fall of 2019.

Oak Savannah Trail
Erie Lackawanna Trail
Marquette Greenway
Illiana Marina Trail
Burnham Greenway
Lakefront Trail

The Lakefront Trail ends on the north side of Chicago not too far from Evanston IL. At this point it's pretty easy to get to the Illinois/Wisconsin border on roads or a few trails and on to Milwaukee. Once in Milwaukee you can take US Bike Route 230/30 to Winona Minnesota.  US Bike Route 230/30 includes the famous Elroy Sparta Trail -- Elroy Sparta repairs are just recently completed. See the attached report.

Gary

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[stev...@gmail.com]

Six or Seven years ago I rode the Lakefront Trail from the far south to the far north and back. Pretty nice.

However, I prefer avoiding the urban environments whenever possible.  Especially now days when there has been so much upheaval and the police have taken a step back.  

I just brought up this items from last September when on a weekend there were nearly 60 shootings in Chicago including on the trail.  This does not discuss other attacks, robberies and confrontations.    So, given other options, I'm fairly hesitant to recommend folks, especially the less savvy, from riding thru an unfamiliar landscape.

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2021/09/07/chicago-labor-day-weekend-gun-violence-2021/

When riding in Grizzly country in Montana, Idaho, Alberta, I stay aware and keep food away from my tent and hanging between a couple trees at some distance from my campsite.  I feel I have much more control in that sort of environment.  But not in urban America.  I prefer to make a big circle around cities.

Thanks for the update on the Elroy-Sparta.  Nice to think that our boys and girls in state government can sort of get along!  

[Bob Carlson]

I think people who don’t live in cities have a fear of them that is not warranted. My daughter went to Northwestern so I spent a fair bit of time there. I know the south only as far as the museum of science and industry, but would not hesitate in the slightest to ride from there to Evanston along the lake. Riding in the loop and north shore area is fine too.

From Evanston to the border is more difficult because you have to ride on streets not designed for bikes. There is a good route from Evanston to the border, but it’s not obvious. To anyone interested I suggest looking for the North Shore Century route of the Evanston Bike Club. That’s how we found the route. It probably shows up very obviously on the Strava Heat Map too. We’ve ridden into Milwaukee from the west to the lake with no problem. Riding through Madison is a piece of cake, of course.

I love riding in Europe because you can go pretty much anywhere on a bike with no problem. We rode right into major cities like Amsterdam, Bremen, Hanover, Copenhagen, Göteborg, Stockholm and Helsinki with no problem whatsoever with Google Maps as the only resource. Terrific bike paths and access everywhere, not just in places like Denmark and the Netherlands.

-Bob

Tucson AZ

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