Folding Bikes: Friday vs Brompton

[Bryan Lorber]

Does anyone on the list have direct touring experience with either Bike Friday or Brompton or both?

Have read a few "compare and contrast" articles. Like most things in life, there seems to be both good and bad. The portability for overseas and airline travel in general  is very appealing. 

What say you?

Bryan

Barrington, RI

[Andrejs]

I've toured with a Bike Friday in various configurations. There are
places where it might not be ideal, but my favorite has been with my
"road" BF pulling its "suitcase trailer." The bike itself is a pleasure
to ride, in every way as good as any other (large-wheel) bike I've been
on. Pulling the two-wheel suitcase leaves the bike handling the same as
always and the trailer follows so smoothly that it's easy to forget it's
there. That bike (the Pocket Rocket Pro) is, in my opinion, a bit too
light/flexy for full rack and pannier use. However, the New World
Tourist and other touring-suitable models of Bike Friday can hold their
own with all the venerable touring bikes I know of. I've not toured on
one myself, but have been on trips with others using them in full
comfort and confidence.

The main lure to Bike Friday is the fact that they can go as regular
luggage on airlines. That's why I got mine initially and it more than
met my expectations. I hardly go anywhere without my bike, even where
people say I can rent a perfectly adequate bike -- it's just so great to
have my own excellent bike.

As far as I can tell, the Bromptons, while fine commuters, are not
designed for all-day, loaded riding. Although there are those who do
it. Those who know both bikes seem to agree that the Brompton's strong
suit is its ease of folding (as for commuting by mixed bike/train/bus
means), whereas the Bike Friday's is packability for air travel. Bike
Friday has been able to combine the packability with top-end bike
characteristics, whereas the quick foldability keeps the Brompton
perfectly good for short commuting rides but somewhat short of a "best
bike."

Andrejs

[Ken Witte]

Thank you for your comments. I too am considering a BF and have even worked up spec's for an order last year only to be stopped at the issue of including internal gear hub and a Gates belt. They might have solved it now I see, but not sure their new "Gates belt bike" is tour worthy.
I have gone the route of SS couplers and toured extensively in Spain with it. But the catch is this... The hardshell case (the only way to safely protect your bike) is 19#s and a good touring bike with disc brakes and racks etc is going to top the limit of 50#s with the case. That means a bunch of stuff has to be removed and carried in another case. Plus the case is so tight for 700c wheels you must deflate, best to remove discs cuz they are likely to get bent when the TSA paws through it all... And they will. The bike took 40-60 minutes to reassemble and adjust at the hotel. Not really all that bad but it gets old fast if you must do it often.
I'm still concerned about flying down a mtn fully loaded with a BF... That is where I pause. Has anyone experienced this new Gates version of a BF?

Ken

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[Jim Foreman]

Sorry but can't help you with information on the BF in any form. I did
have a folder set up for touring but only rode it on a few shorter tours.
But speaking of TSA and bikes, I've seen several reports where bikes were
pulled out of the boxes and then they couldn't get them back in so they
taped them to the outside of the box or one was stuffed in the box with the
forks hanging outside the end of the box. One time my wife and I were going
on a Mediterranean Cruise and took her travel wheelchair in its carrying
case. When our luggage arrived in Rome, the chair was taped to the outside
of the case and they had lost one of the folding footrests in the process.
You might enjoy this account of my folding touring bike.

http://www.jimforeman.com/Stories/foldbike.htm

Jim Foreman

[Bryan Lorber]

Thanks, Andrejs. Your observations and experience mirrors what I have read. I wish Bromp. would build a solid touring bike. I am very drawn to the company but won't let my emotions dictate which bike I buy, if I do buy a folder.

Ken: I believe that the Gates Belt drive IS the future for all bicycles. If tracking and tension are set correctly, it's a grease free, light,trouble free drivetrain that will last a very long time. Consider that motorcycles have been using them for years. I'm pretty sure I read that those belts are speced for 75,000 miles and are obviously under much more stress than any cyclist could produce. There's a British guy on line who cycled around the world using Rohloff and belt and reported no problem of any kind.  As for Rohloff, it's god and that's that! ;-)) I have two and just love them for all the reasons that are well documented. 

Bryan

Barrington, RI

On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Jim Foreman <jimf...@att.net> wrote:

   Sorry but can't help you with information on the BF in any form. I did have a folder set up for touring but only rode it on a few shorter tours. But speaking of TSA and bikes, I've seen several reports where bikes were pulled out of the boxes and then they couldn't get them back in so they taped them to the outside of the box or one was stuffed in the box with the forks hanging outside the end of the box. One time my wife and I were going on a Mediterranean Cruise and took her travel wheelchair in its carrying case. When our luggage arrived in Rome, the chair was taped to the outside of the case and they had lost one of the folding footrests in the process.
   You might enjoy this account of my folding touring bike.

http://www.jimforeman.com/Stories/foldbike.htm

Jim Foreman

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Witte" <kennet...@gmail.com>

Cc: <bicycletouring@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [touring] Folding Bikes: Friday vs Brompton

Thank you for your comments. I too am considering a BF and have even worked up spec's for an order last year only to be stopped at the issue of including internal gear hub and a Gates belt. They might have solved it now I see, but not sure their new "Gates belt bike" is tour worthy.
I have gone the route of SS couplers and toured extensively in Spain with it. But the catch is this... The hardshell case (the only way to safely protect your bike) is 19#s and a good touring bike with disc brakes and racks etc is going to top the limit of 50#s with the case. That means a bunch of stuff has to be removed and carried in another case. Plus the case is so tight for 700c wheels you must deflate, best to remove discs cuz they are likely to get bent when the TSA paws through it all... And they will. The bike took  40-60 minutes to reassemble and adjust at the hotel. Not really all that bad but it gets old fast if you must do it often.
I'm still concerned about flying down a mtn fully loaded with a BF... That is where I pause. Has anyone experienced this new Gates version of a BF?

Ken

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 6, 2013, at 12:07 PM, Andrejs <and...@ozolins.com> wrote:

On 1/6/13 11:45 AM, Bryan Lorber wrote:

Does anyone on the list have direct touring experience with either Bike Friday or Brompton or both?
Have read a few "compare and contrast" articles. Like most things in life, there seems to be both good and bad. The portability for overseas and airline travel in general  is very appealing.
What say you?

I've toured with a Bike Friday in various configurations. There are places where it might not be ideal, but my favorite has been with my "road" BF pulling its "suitcase trailer." The bike itself is a pleasure to ride, in every way as good as any other (large-wheel) bike I've been on. Pulling the two-wheel suitcase leaves the bike handling the same as always and the trailer follows so smoothly that it's easy to forget it's there. That bike (the Pocket Rocket Pro) is, in my opinion, a bit too light/flexy for full rack and pannier use. However, the New World Tourist and other touring-suitable models of Bike Friday can hold their own with all the venerable touring bikes I know of. I've not toured on one myself, but have been on trips with others using them in full comfort and confidence.

The main lure to Bike Friday is the fact that they can go as regular luggage on airlines. That's why I got mine initially and it more than met my expectations. I hardly go anywhere without my bike, even where people say I can rent a perfectly adequate bike -- it's just so great to have my own excellent bike.

As far as I can tell, the Bromptons, while fine commuters, are not designed for all-day, loaded riding. Although there are those who do it. Those who know both bikes seem to agree that the Brompton's strong suit is its ease of folding (as for commuting by mixed bike/train/bus means), whereas the Bike Friday's is packability for air travel. Bike Friday has been able to combine the packability with top-end bike characteristics, whereas the quick foldability keeps the Brompton perfectly good for short commuting rides but somewhat short of a "best bike."

Andrejs

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[Troy Heidner]

Hi Bryan,

I purchased a Brompton about a year ago with the specific purpose of touring in mind.  Just to let you know, I have been bicycle touring off and on for the last 20 years, the last 13 of which have been on a recumbent bike.  I had come to the opinion that recumbent bike riding was the ONLY way to travel because of its comfort.  I only give you that background to give you the framework for the current story.  I purchased the Brompton with the idea that I might like to try some European travel, which would certainly involve a good amount of air and rail travel.  The Brompton seemed to be a logical convenience for those purposes and I was willing to sacrifice some comfort for that convenience.  Move forward to today.  I still haven't made it to Europe (maybe in the next year?), but I have taken a couple medium-short (200 miles-ish) fully loaded, self supported, camping style solo tours on the Brompton here in the midwest.

I will say this.  I fully expected to like the folding convenience of the Brompton.  What I didn't expect was that I was going to LOVE riding this bike.  For whatever reason, the geometry of this bike agrees with me.  It is not only convenient, but the most comfortable upright bicycle that I have ever ridden.  In terms of pure comfort, I still have to give the nod to the recumbent.  But when you factor in the total convenience of the Brompton, it is nearly life altering.  I'm actually considering selling my recumbent now, simply because I never ride it anymore?

I chose the Brompton because it was one of the fastest folders out there, and maybe more importantly, it's almost THE most compact when folded.  It's certainly the most compact folder that is very robust when unfolded.  Don't get me wrong, there are other really good folders out there too.  I test rode some great Dahon and Bike Fridays as well.  But since I don't have one of those I'm just giving you the high points of the Brompton.  I believe it was the best choice for me.  The Brompton has a built in rear suspension that works well to cushion and add comfort to the ride.  It has what Brompton calls "Easy Wheels" mounted on the rear (on the rack on models that have a rack) that allow you to wheel the bike around easily even when folded.  It is so compact and easy to fold that I rarely ever even lock it up anywhere I go.  I just fold it and take it in with me at work, restaurants, stores, etc.  With a Brompton front mounted bag, you can fold up all of the bike except the handle bars and push it around a store like a shopping cart, with the bag out in front of you.  Then check out, put the stuff back in your bag, unfold, and ride away.  Video demonstration:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34f4i7d4A-c

The Brompton has a pretty amazing luggage capacity for such a small bike and I have no trouble at all packing for a self supported tour.  There are many people who have done very long tours on Bromptons, most visibly Russ Roca from pathlesspedaled.com.  He and his partner rode around much of the U.S. and then New Zealand on their Bromptons.   He has a couple excellent videos (I'll include the links) on how he packs his Brompton, and he carries even more crap than I do.  :)  But I pack my Brompton much the same way.  Brompton makes some excellent luggage for their bikes.  On overnight tours, all I need is their front touring bag (you'll see it in Russ' video).  But for longer trips I have used the hiking backpack method as well.  That works out pretty great actually, because when you are off the bike you can throw the majority of your luggage over your back and still have your hands free.

Attaching a backpack to the Brompton:  http://vimeo.com/26700747#

Russ packing his Brompton:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6E2ltQiul4

As far as airline travel goes, there are a few options.  There is a hard case made for the Brompton, but that leaves you with a storage issue if you intend to ride your bike from the airport.  There are several soft luggage options that will collapse down and stow away on the bike once you reach your destination.  I will opt for one of those when the time comes for me to fly with the Brompton.  Some have used the Bike Friday hard case/trailer option.  It can work too.

I hope that gives you a good overview of this excellent option.  If you have any questions, feel free to ask away.  I'll be happy to help.  There is also an AWESOME Yahoo group (BromptonTalk) for the Bromptons as well.  The best recommendation I can give is that I have found the Brompton to be a life changer, not just a great bike.

Whichever bike you choose, enjoy!

Troy

[Mark Hillman]

Just for fun you might want to read "Riding with Reindeer" written by Bob Goldstein, an award winning travelogue writer.  It tells of his tour in Finland (2,000 miles?) on a BF.  I've ridden a BF and since I normally ride a 65cm frame, the BF was unsuitable.  Bob rides a smaller frame and I think he liked it with the trailer.  I can provide his contact information via PM if you are interested in discussing this with him.

 

Markku Klubb

Seattle Washington

USA

[Bryan Lorber]

Thank you , Tory! 

Outstanding review and I really appreciate the links. 

We have a Brompton dealer just outside Boston so plan on taking a trip up there for a test ride. Need to find a BF dealer too.

Thanks, again

Bryan 

Barrington, RI

[Roy Bird]

I would also endorse the excellent and entertaining videos made by Russ and Laura in pathlesspedaled.com. However I notice in their most recent videos that they have reverted to big wheels.

Roy

 

From: bicycle...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bicycle...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Troy Heidner
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 3:48 PM
To: Bryan Lorber
Cc: bicycletouring
Subject: Re: [touring] Folding Bikes: Friday vs Brompton

 

Hi Bryan,

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[Nathan Wajsman]

Horror stories like this plus my general dislike of hassle have led me to the conclusion that flying with bikes sucks. Instead, I now keep a bike in Denmark and am planning to get one in the UK, two countries which I visit frequently. Of course, this only works if one has friends or family who can keep the bike.

Cheers,
Nathan

Nathan Wajsman
na...@gmx.es

Alicante, Spain
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PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/

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YNWA

[Andy Goodell]

I think peer to peer bike sharing will seem some major growth in the coming years that will help with this (sorry folding bike companies...).

I signed up on one previously called Spinlister which now has a too trendy name of doLiquid.com. Essentially, my bikes are up for rent and I set the price. Liquid offers up to $5000 insurance, and requires that people pay with a card for better chances of collecting damage/late fees, and takes a cut of the rental price. It's currently not fully public, so some larger cities have a good collection to choose from while others have nothing. If you are not in one of their public cities, you can only search for bikes to rent if you also have one to rent out yourself. Eventually this should all get public though and grow quickly.

With $5k insurance, I'm not too scared to lend out my touring bike. I'd still get to meet the renter in person too, so I can decide not to rent it out if they just don't seem trustworthy. I almost used this service in Boulder, but my gracious WarmShowers host let me just use their bike.

Andy

[Robert Harrison]

I've had a BF New World Tourist since 2008 and have taken on at least one trip every year including a couple weeklong rides. While I've often found TSA inspection cards inside the case, I've never had any trouble with their repacking.

However, I include a big notice in the suitcase explaining what it in the case and page with images show exactly how to pack it. Since it appears they've never actually moved anything I suspect the instructions I've included have been enough for them to be okay with the bike.

As for the BF NWT itself I love it. I take it pretty much whenever I travel for more than a day or two. As I live in Hawaii it would get very expensive to transport anything larger regularly. As this flies as luggage it's generally $25 one-way.

So far it's been to:

Mexico DF

Oakland, CA

Las Vegas, NV

El Paso, TX

Los Angeles, CA

Oregon (Pacific coast tour)

Iowa (RAGBRAI 2011)

San Francisco (separate from the Oakland trip)

And…depending on the weather forecast, Boise, ID later this winter

I don't use it locally (inter island) often because I'm generally only traveling between islands for a day or two. I live in Honolulu and do go to Hilo on Hawaii Island a lot to visit relatives so I  keep a bike there.  I will be taking the Friday to Maui this year though to ride down Haleakala. 

As for the Green Gear, the BF folks, they've been absolutely superb with customer service going above and beyond the two times I've had trouble. Really. I can't say enough good stuff about them.

Aloha,

Bob

-- 

Robert Harrison

Honolulu, HI

statrix.com

[Rick Peoples]

I can add my own traveling with a bike horror story. (My wife and I are buying matching folding bikes, we are going with Dahons, sold through REI, about half the price of Bike Fridays, no where near the performance, but still very rideable. )
We bought bike boxes, flew to London with our bikes. We discarded the cardboard boxes, road three weeks, then bought "airport" bike boxes to get them home. After wrestling the bikes back into boxes at the airport and taping them with "approved" airport packing tape, we watched as two uniformed guards used box cutters to rip them to pieces so they could search the contents. I asked, "Why did you guys sit there and watch me pack them, and then rip them up?" My wife was tugging on my arm, point to the fact that they were carrying automatic weapons. (Long before 9-11 in the United States.) Basically, they stuck the bides back in the boxes about halfway, put a single wrap of tape around them, and shoved them into the baggage area. I was exasperated, but wiser.  Since then, we have rented bikes in Europe and enjoyed riding, returning, grabbing our bags and getting on a plane with no worries. I have also rented bikes to ride in almost every major city in the United States. But for touring, we want to set up our bikes the way we want them, so we are going with folding bikes, fly to the start of the tour with $25 "bags," and not worry about where the nearest rental is. I appreciate this list for information on bikes of all kinds, and there seems to be a trend to folders as they get better (quality). 

[Pawel Danielewicz]

Just to clear one area of the ground, there is a trailer for Brompton by Radical Designs, named Cyclone IV Chubby, that is supposed to work as a case for the Brompton in air travel.  I went ahead with a purchase of that trailer and, after many months of wait, its dimensions turned out to be well in excess of what airlines impose as a limit on standard checked in luggage and in excess of what the manufacturer lists on their site.  I returned the trailer to the dealer and communicated with the manufacturer.  It turned out that the manufacturer failed to check what the typical limit for the standard checked in luggage is.  They said that they would redesign the trailer which should not be difficult to do since there was quite a bit of wiggle room there - no rationale for making that trailer so bulky.  So far, though, I did not notice them offering any redesigned trailers.

Otherwise, I have air traveled many times with BF NWT and Brompton in luggage and the only problems I had were attributable to my own carelessness rather than anybody else and in this the problems not serious either.  However, I have not done more than day trips on either of those bikes so cannot offer serious recommendations.  Both worked fine for the day trips.

Pawel, MI

[sa...@isomedia.com]

I have 4 Bike Friday singles, one Bike Friday Tandem and one Dahon knock
off made that I don't recall the brand of.

I tried a Brompton once and I liked it, I also like the Bike Friday I tried.

My observations in a nutshell.

The Bike Friday folks do a good job of designing a complete system, your
bike comes out of the case, you unfold it, mount the pedals and steering,
mount the case on the trailer frame and ride away.

This way you aren't stuck having to return to the same airport you flew in
to. My trips are usually point to point. Many are on Crazyguyonabike.com

Build quality and customer service are consistently great.

Things to consider:

If you are much over 6 feet tall, the Bike Fridays (so they can still fit
in their case), start to put you into more of an upright riding position,
my preference would be a bolt on mid section to increase the length.

The smaller wheels on folding bikes 16" or 20" are like the smaller wheels
on mountain bikes - 26" vs 29" all work fine on decent roads or well
maintained dirt trails, but lots of holes and logs mean you have to pay
attention.

I keep a regular bike or two stored in a few cities where I do most of my
dirt route touring.

Try before you buy, ideally rent one for a 2-4 day tour and you'll quickly
figure out what you like best.


Saul Kinderis
sa...@isomedia.com cell 206.313.0107

http://www.isomedia.com/homes/saul

[roger noehren]

Excellent thread; answered a number of my questions, since I'm
familiar with both but have never owned or toured on either.
I have a friend who tours extensively with a BF and is very satisfied
(he stores the case in the city of arrival/departure).
it's worth checking Bike Friday's "pre-loved" page on their web-site.
The Brompton is also a very impressive bike which is by all accounts
perfect for multi-modal travel. I've heard that it's possible to gate
check one (like a wheelchair or stroller) although this may vary
depending on the airline &/or airport (Alaska airlines is reportedly
good in this respect).

Roger