Why do Schwalbe Marathons suck for touring?

[bryan]

OK Marten, Thanks for your comments.  

Fortunately, I've never had back problems while riding the Marathons and I ensure the sidewalls flex a bit.  I personally don't care about being a few clicks slower, after all, I'm touring and not racing!

I admit the Marathons can be a challenge to get on and off but it doesn't reduce me to tears or anything like that - it's really not as bad a some people make it out to be,  IMO.  Maybe I've gotten used to it after 7 years?

I like to think I have an open mind.... So, I'm curious as to what you think would be the ideal touring tire for my type of touring?  Let's try this: I want to complete my Australia circumnavigation next year, so let says 8,000km on paved roads, on a steel touring bike. The bike and myself weight about 110kg before adding water and food (12-14 litres of water at times).  I like a tire that doesn't flat too often. :-)  Oh yes, I have 559 rims. 

Thanks!

bryan

On 3 May 2014 03:00, M-gineering <in...@m-gineering.nl> wrote:

On 5/3/2014 9:23 AM, bryan wrote> I am perfectly willing

to trade off an extra 300 grams or so in exchange for NOT changing a
tire in a ditch in < 10C and rain.

It's not about 300 grams, it's about being 1-2 mph slower and all the bumps going up your spine.

And if you do get a flat they are a bugger to get off and back on again.

I can't see the point of them for touring, but if you ride through a glass strewn city and can't afford to be late for work they have their uses
--
mvg

Marten Gerritsen
 Kiel Windeweer
Netherlands

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[Henrik V. Risager]

We ended up picking Marathon Plus Tour for our rides since we couldn't get the XR's. The 26" 2.2" weigh in at 1.1 Kg a tyre!!! And just under a Kg for the 700c 45mm. They were not that bad to change when needed but then again that wasn't something we did often. Over 24 months for the 700c and at least 8000 miles, which included a lot of commuting in London (loads of broken glass and other crap) and the very rough roads in Patagonia, I only had to fix a "visit" there times. And once for the 26" in 12 month of touring about 3500miles.

M+ narrower than 35mm are a "bar steward" to fit and get off, but for less than a mile per hour I prefer the fit and forget of the M+. I'm not racing but with 32mm M+ on my LHT with a pannier or two, when I wanted to, I could easy keep up with the MAMIL's on the Tour de Commute in London's rush hour. Which pissed some right off, but then again they didn't know how to use their gears, clip in shoes or how to read the traffic. 

I had pair of M+ 26" 1.35" which were a right pain to get on and off, I think I broke 5 tyre levers in one setting once. Though in 10.000+ miles I only had to take them off 2-3 times and one time to swap them around since the back was getting a wee bit worn.

In the last 6 years on the bikes that runs M+ I can count on two hands how many punctures we have had and we are talking well over 25.000 miles, commuting in and around London, touring on very rough and remote roads.

If Schwalbe keep this up I will be using their tyres well into the future, I would rather be a bit slower, than having to faff around with a puncture repair kit. 

H

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[Neil Schneider]

On Sat, May 3, 2014 3:11 pm, bryan wrote:
> OK Marten, Thanks for your comments.
>
> Fortunately, I've never had back problems while riding the Marathons and I
> ensure the sidewalls flex a bit. I personally don't care about being a
> few
> clicks slower, after all, I'm touring and not racing!
>
> I admit the Marathons can be a challenge to get on and off but it doesn't
> reduce me to tears or anything like that - it's really not as bad a some
> people make it out to be, IMO. Maybe I've gotten used to it after 7
> years?
>
> I like to think I have an open mind.... So, I'm curious as to what you
> think would be the ideal touring tire for my type of touring? Let's try
> this: I want to complete my Australia circumnavigation next year, so let
> says 8,000km on paved roads, on a steel touring bike. The bike and myself
> weight about 110kg before adding water and food (12-14 litres of water at
> times). I like a tire that doesn't flat too often. :-) Oh yes, I have
> 559
> rims.

I like the Schwalbe Marathon Supremes. They are available in 42-559 and
50-559. They weigh 440g and 565g respectively. I run the 42-662 on my Long
Haul Trucker and I've got them on my Quest Velomobile. 42-406 on front
and I believe 50-559 on back. I specified Supremes when I order the Quest.

An extremely densely woven fabric made from Vectran protects the new top
of the line touring tire - Marathon Supreme. It's High Density Vectran
Guard (HD-V) uses a patented weaving technology more puncture resistant
than any other textile used in bicycle tire technology. The tire is nearly
50% lighter than any other touring tire and sets a new benchmark in terms
of wet-grip adhesion................

Read more http://www.schwalbetires.com/marathon_supreme_home

I've found them to be extremely flat resistant. Since they are folding
tires, carrying a spare isn't a big challenge. Also, because they are
folding tires, I've never needed a tool to change a Marathon Supreme. I
have them on three bikes now Got a nail through the rear on my LHT and had
to stop because it was hitting the fender. I pulled it out fully expecting
a hiss, like when you pull a nail from a car tire. Nothing. Tire still
hasn't flatted and I think that was 6 months ago or more.

I swear by Marathon Supremes and I would use them on every bike, if they fit.


--
Neil Schneider velorambler over-at gmail dot com
http://www.velorambler.com

Quest Velomobile QB086
Surly Long Haul Trucker
Bachetta Giro 26 (for sale)
Bilenky Viewpoint Tandem
Bike Friday New World Traveler

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"Work to eat, eat to live, live to bike, bike to work." -- Naomi Bloom

[Rl Bowers]

They are hard to put on but I love that I only have to put them on once.  They last forever ​and seem to never flat.  That is all I have on my commuter/touring bike, tandem, and Giro 20 bent.

 

Lov'em

 

 

skip

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Skip Bowers

RL Bowers Drafting & Design

325-2283 cell

[Brian Crawford]

It must depend on the rims, because I have them on three different bikes and actually found them to be pretty easy to put on. I have never flatted with them, riding mostly in an urban setting.

Brian

[Mark Boyd]

I got very good at getting mine off and on ;-{. I must have done it 30
or more times just getting from California to Florida.


Mark

[Jim Cole]

I'm not sure which Schwalbe Marathon model Marten is referring to, but I found the Marathon Plus waaaaaay too hard to mount.  They are very flat proof, but I don't know if I could even change one in the field.  The regular Marathon goes on and off quite easy for me on a variety of rims. I definitely agree that even the regular Marathon "feels" heavy and slow, but not an issue for me while touring.  

Marten mentioned the Marathon may be a bit sluggish for touring (in certain areas) and a good solid choice for commuting.  He is in the Netherlands and I found the roads of France, Belgium and the Netherlands to be unbelievably clean and free of debris as compared to Memphis and surrounding rural Tennessee and Mississippi.  I did about 600 miles of riding starting in Paris and ending in Amsterdam last year and I see more crap in the road here on one 50 mile ride than on the entire trip in Europe.  If (when?) I go back I would consider a more performance oriented tire than the Marathon. 

Jim Cole

Memphis, Tennessee USA  

On 5/3/2014 9:23 AM, bryan wrote> I am perfectly willing

to trade off an extra 300 grams or so in exchange for NOT changing a
tire in a ditch in < 10C and rain.

It's not about 300 grams, it's about being 1-2 mph slower and all the bumps going up your spine.

And if you do get a flat they are a bugger to get off and back on again.

I can't see the point of them for touring, but if you ride through a glass strewn city and can't afford to be late for work they have their uses
--
mvg

Marten Gerritsen
 Kiel Windeweer
Netherlands

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bryan...@gmail.com

[hpvluve...@aol.com]

I just changed 2 flats on my trike but it wasn't the Marathon Plus's that were the problem. The stem in each tube leaked. I have arthritis in both hands and no strength now and I can put the tires on with the Schwalbe tire tools. I have tried other ones and wouldn't use any but the Schwalbe. I actually thought I would break them putting the tire on but it worked just fine. The tires were 20x1.75. and 26x1.75.

Fran,

 

[Jim Cole]

I had several inner tubes with valve problems or leaks where the valve stem joins the tube over the past couple of years.  I tried some Schwalbe tubes and they are really super high quality! Maybe it's my imagination, but it "seems" like I don't have to pump them up as often and they hold their pressure longer.  A bit pricey, but well worth it in my limited experience.

Jim Cole

Memphis, TN

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[Mark Boyd]

On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Jim Cole <13v...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I had several inner tubes with valve problems or leaks where the valve stem
> joins the tube over the past couple of years. I tried some Schwalbe tubes
> and they are really super high quality! Maybe it's my imagination, but it
> "seems" like I don't have to pump them up as often and they hold their
> pressure longer. A bit pricey, but well worth it in my limited experience.

My experience with Schwalbe tubes matches Jims.
They are the best tubes I've ever used.


Mark

[Larry Parker]

I have HAD IT with the "quick release" rubber straps on lights. They dry out
and rot due to ozone, UV, cold, heat, things that really do a number on the
stuff and sooner or later you have a useless light or computer mount. I
don't mind the cam activated quick releases, they are sturdy thick plastic.
I really never minded adjusting and tightening a screw or two, but I will
NOT buy another tail light or headlight with slotted stretchy straps for a
mount. I have three good, functional lights sitting in a drawer. I am going
to start mixing mount/clamp parts to see if I can Frankenstein one together
to utilize at least one of the "blinkies." They are good lights that are
close to useless right now. Funny thing, I can't get my little Planet Bike
blinkie to turn on (6? 8? years old) but the clamp is still solid on my seat
stay - hopefully it will meld with one of the other lights somehow!

Rubber Bands are almost as bad, but at least they can be replaced; same with
zip ties. Zip ties actually seem to hold up pretty well. I think I am going
to take the current Garmin mounts and see if I can add a screw or some epoxy
and meld them with one of the old zip tie mounts.

Larry

[fietsBob]

OK,  so they dont ride like Campionato del Mundo Seta sew ups .    Im OK with the 3 pair  on 3 bikes Handy here  349,  406 & 559 ..

'97 tour I used 622-40 Nokian A 10s .. if they were a 4 ply casing they would be like somewhat  truck tires .. doubling the sidewall plies would have been fine.. 

On Saturday, May 3, 2014 3:11:46 PM UTC-7, Bryan wrote:

OK Marten, Thanks for your comments.  

Fortunately, I've never had back problems while riding the Marathons and I ensure the sidewalls flex a bit.  I personally don't care about being a few clicks slower, after all, I'm touring and not racing!

I admit the Marathons can be a challenge to get on and off but it doesn't reduce me to tears or anything like that - it's really not as bad a some people make it out to be,  IMO.  Maybe I've gotten used to it after 7 years?

I like to think I have an open mind.... So, I'm curious as to what you think would be the ideal touring tire for my type of touring?  Let's try this: I want to complete my Australia circumnavigation next year, so let says 8,000km on paved roads, on a steel touring bike. The bike and myself weight about 110kg before adding water and food (12-14 litres of water at times).  I like a tire that doesn't flat too often. :-)  Oh yes, I have 559 rims. 

Thanks!

bryan

On 3 May 2014 03:00, M-gineering <in...@m-gineering.nl> wrote:

On 5/3/2014 9:23 AM, bryan wrote> I am perfectly willing

to trade off an extra 300 grams or so in exchange for NOT changing a
tire in a ditch in < 10C and rain.

It's not about 300 grams, it's about being 1-2 mph slower and all the bumps going up your spine.

And if you do get a flat they are a bugger to get off and back on again.

I can't see the point of them for touring, but if you ride through a glass strewn city and can't afford to be late for work they have their uses
--
mvg

Marten Gerritsen
 Kiel Windeweer
Netherlands

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[Mark Boyd]

For a really long tour where I couldn't find replacement tires, I'd
carry multiple spare tires before I'd use Marathon Pluses. However, I
was very impressed by their durability when I did use them. I just
hated everything else about them.

Another, better, alternative would, according to reviews I've read, be
the Marathon Mondial which offers durability and versatility combined
with low rolling resistance. They are the Schwalbe XR replacement.

http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/gear/schwalbe-mondial-review-ultimate-bike-touring-tires/

Mark

[bryan]

@Mark: Too bad 50mm is the minimum width for the Mondial 559s, otherwise I'd be interested in giving them a try... 47mm barely clears my fenders and I'd rather not redo my custom rear fender stays (the Rohloff complicates the fender attaching to the frame).

@Neil: As I read Schwalbe's website, the Supreme 42-559 would give me a some extra speed for a bit of reduction in puncture protection and durability.  I'd be willing to take along this tire as a spare on my next tour!

[Neil Schneider]

On Tue, May 6, 2014 3:38 pm, bryan wrote:

> @Neil: As I read Schwalbe's website, the Supreme 42-559 would give me a
> some extra speed for a bit of reduction in puncture protection and
> durability. I'd be willing to take along this tire as a spare on my next
> tour!

That's not been my experience. More than 8K miles without a flat. I
commute on streets strewn with glass, tire wires and nails. Got nail
direct into tire, no flat. I have no idea why people want to run heavy
lugged tires on a touring bike. I ride on dirt paths and unpaved roads
without a problem, on Supremes. I would not trade them for any of the
heavy lugged tires that most tourists seem to prefer.

[Mark Boyd]

On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 6:38 PM, bryan <bryan...@gmail.com> wrote:

@Mark: Too bad 50mm is the minimum width for the Mondial 559s, otherwise I'd be interested in giving them a try... 47mm barely clears my fenders and I'd rather not redo my custom rear fender stays (the Rohloff complicates the fender attaching to the frame).

 

Where did that come from? In the article I linked, he complained that he couldn't get them wide enough.

Here is what schwalbe's web site list for folding Mondial tires:

    

• • 
    
  • 50-559 (26 x 2.00)
  • Double Defense
  • TravelStar
  • Black-Reflex
• • 55-559 (26 x 2.15)
  • Double Defense
  • TravelStar
  • Black-Reflex
• • 37-622 (28 x 1.40, 700x35C)
  • Double Defense
  • TravelStar
  • Black-Reflex
• • 42-622 (28 x 1.60, 700x40C)
  • Double Defense
  • TravelStar
  • Black-Reflex
• • 47-622 (28 x 1.75)
  • Double Defense
  • TravelStar
  • Black-Reflex
• • 50-622 (28 x 2.00)

http://www.schwalbe.com/en/tour-reader/marathon-mondial.html

I'd go for the 700x42 mondails.

 

 

@Neil: As I read Schwalbe's website, the Supreme 42-559 would give me a some extra speed for a bit of reduction in puncture protection and durability.  I'd be willing to take along this tire as a spare on my next tour!

The supreme is a very good tire, but I doubt it is as durable, or versatile, as the mondial.

         Mark

[bryan]

Well, as you can see from the list you reproduced from the Schwalbe link, a 50 is the smallest width for the Mondial in 559.  47 is about the widest I can fit.

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[Mark Boyd]

Sorry! I'm too used to thinking 700c I didn't notice you were talking 559. 559 does make good sense for expedition touring, but most of the available tires are pretty wide. You might want to try to find the actual dimensions of the smallest 559 mondial since there can be considerable variation in tires marked with the same size.

             Mark