A Review of Jones Plus Bike

[Mojo]

This frame seems ideally suited for bikepacking and perhaps even road touring. I posted this to the IBOB list and thought you might want to read it too.

After reading the review of a Jones bike in the winter edition of Bicycle Quarterly, I eventually decided to buy one. I have been on my Jones Plus for about a month now and thought I would pass on what I have learned.

Summary, this bike has made many of my other bikes obsolete, including road bikes, and has the potential to be the mythical One and Only Bike. It climbs and descends wonderfully and better than any other dirt bike I have tried. It rides well on the road,very well. It is super comfortable.

I was attracted to the Plus for two features: its long chainstays and its unique geometry to achieve low trail handling.

Chainstays: on other mountain bikes with track-like dropouts (Surly's Karate Monkey and Pugsley) I found that I liked the rear wheel in the rear most position, that allowed me to climb steeper hills and keep the front tire on the trail. 

Handling, the trend in recent years is for mountain bikes to slacken the head angle but not increase rake, so trail numbers have gone over 100 on several bikes. I have found lower trail front ends (trail values in the 70s) to show less wondering at slow speeds and respond better/quickly on descents. This handling was available on bikes like the Karate Monkey and MB-1 with steeper head angles. The Jones Plus achieves trail in the 70s with a shallow head angle by using lots of rake. But that requires a trussed fork. More on that in a moment.

The Jones Plus comes in two sizes, a 24 or 25 inch defined by their effective top tube length. I am roughly the same height as Jeff Jones and he prefers the 24 but rides both. I eventually chose the 25 and am glad I did. I am 72.5 inches tall with a 89cm PBH. I think I am about the smallest rider that fits well on the Plus 25 so if you are taller than 6ft consider the 25, shorter than 6ft consider the 24.

Here is the geometry of the Plus 25:

seat tube length 20 inch (Plus 24 frame = 18 inch)
actual top tube length 23.25 inch (Plus 24 = 22.25 inch)
chainstay length 19 inch!
wheelbase 47.5 inch!
standover height with 3 inch tires 33 inches (Plus 24 = 31 inches)
handlebars 2.25 inches above saddle height; minimum handlebar height - 1 inch above saddle
seat angle 71 degrees
head angle 67.5 degrees
fork rake 76mm!
Resulting trail/geometric trail:
3 inch/75mm wide tires - 79/73mm
2.3 inch/58mm tires - 72/67mm.

These numbers are all available on the Jones website but are scattered. Putting all these numbers together took some effort!

So this frame is radically different in several ways:

- super long chainstays

- low trail achieved with a super slack head angle and lots of fork rake

- a resultant super long wheelbase, several inches longer than any bike I have ever ridden

- a short cockpit producing an upright riding position

- forced high handlebars (the Plus 24 would have allowed me to have handlebar height close to saddle height).

So I was afraid the bike would ride like a boat with the long wheelbase. Click on this image to see the stretch of the Plus frame. Here are some of my impressions as they were revealed on my first rides: 

I sit *in* the bike, not on top. This is immediately comfortable and confidence building. 

The bike turns on a frigging dime! Long wheelbase and tight turns? How the heck does that happen?

The 29x3" tires are wonderful: grippy, absorbant, and they roll over anything.

The bike climbs better than any bike I have tried (second place - MB-1). There seems to be a very large sweet spot for body position during climbs including out of the saddle. Contrast is the Karate Monkey that has a tiny climbing sweet spot - on the saddle nose with my upper body down on the handlebars.

The bike descends better than any bike I have tried. The shallow head angle puts the front wheel out there and the low trail allows for quick flickable handling.

The long wheelbase goes around sharp switchback corners just fine. I don't know how, it just does! On trails I have twitched the front end around rocks and waited for the rear tire to hit it and somehow it doesn't. Amazing!

I have also built some 'road wheels' for the Jones Plus and ridden it on the road. These wheel have Schwalbe Super Moto tires on them: semi-slick, 2.3", supple casing.  I have ridden up the local steep climb on the Jones Plus vs a road bike (Rivendell Legolas). One day apart the two climbs took exactly the same amount of time!  My first impressions are the climbing differences between this 'mountain' bike and a high end 'road' bike are trivial, at least for for a non-racing recreational rider. Again, I am amazed!

The high handlebars feel really good to me. The Jones Loop H bar is a different beast and catches on stuff as I pull the bike through the garage. Also riding next to other riders requires care not to catch the bar on theirs. But the bar offers many hand holds from stretched out to bolt upright. I like to climb with my hands on the cross bar interface. Holding onto the very front of the bar is quite aero. A short stem is the key. After trying a 10cm stem in many of my photos shown here, I have put on an 8cm. I typically use 11-13cm stems on other bikes.

Another feature is the eccentric bottom bracket (EBB). This allows for single speed use of course. But also allows for differing BB heights by up to 11mm difference. I ended up with the BB rotated to the back parallel position. This gives my about 12 inches of BB height with my 29x3 tires and a bit lower with my 'road' wheels.

Ok now some down sides to the Jones Plus. The front end. I hate this ducking front end. 

1) It has a through axle that screws into the right side of the fork. Fine. But Jeff wants a stiff front end, so the bike is speced to take a 135mm front hub with wider flanges. So my Pugsley wheels will not work as it uses a rear hub for its front end. I bought two front Jones hubs with my frame. They are finicky things. A front wheel fell over on the asphalt and this skewed the bearings within the hub. They are easily restraightened, but still.... Also there are end caps held on with a aluminum-rubber seal. If you don't get the ducking seal in *just right* it will squeak.  I have never felt a flexible front wheel was a problem. I long for the simplicity of a normal quick release wheel with lawyer lips on the fork. 

2) the truss fork is a pain to build up and restricts handlebars to a high position. To build the headset, the steering tube is not brazed to the fork crown but is held on with dual bolts below and one bolt at the truss attachment on top. A spacer is required between the top of the headtube and the bottom of the truss attachment. I ground down a 10mm spacer to about 8mm to fit in there. The Jones headset is of the greased ball in a race variety so I will have to pull this monstrosity apart every few years to re-grease. Ughhhh....

I like the blue paint and it seems robust. Other limited colors are black or brown. The frame has a internal treatment that is said to protect against rust. I had to remove paint from the fork ends to get the through-axle in the frame.

A final point, Jeff believes in 170mm crankarms for all riders, siting gain ratio and the like. I like 175mm arms. They seem to work fine on this bike.

So the bike has some quirks (did I mention the ducking front end and front hub?!) and forces the rider into a further back shorter & higher cockpit position. I think I love it and I think I ride better in this position. The Jones Loop handlebar allows for more stretched out positions when desired. This bike allows me to climb and descend in ways I cannot on other bikes. It also seems to ride very well on the road with appropriate tires. The Jones Plus has exceeded my high expectations. Now I have to decide how many of my other bikes are obsolete.

[Bryan Lorber]

Looks very sweet! I read the review as well. It was intriguing, for sure. I'm building a new travel bike and I've included a Jones H Bar in carbon for my handlebar. I like the upright option and multiple hand positions. Also, perfect for the Rohloff shifter. Thanks for such a detailed review of this interesting bike.

Bryan

Barrington, RI

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[Doug Quesnel]

What rims do you have?  I'm wondering if those road tires you have are on completely different whees or if you just put them on your plus(45/50mm) wheels.  I bought a 25 Plus a few months ago and I am not good with words like you but to put it simply it's the best bike I've ever owned.  Riding my road bike after riding my plus I think "How did I run around on pavement with the plus" because there is a speed difference but when I get back on my plus I think "How am I able to ride any other bike" because of how comfortable I am on the plus... on top of being able to ride any where under any condition.  Currently running dually's with bontrager chupacabras.

[Doug Quesnel]

What rims did you end up going with on your build?  Do you use the same wheels with both your road tires and 29+ tires?  Love my Plus, have Bontragers Chup's on and they are a pretty good overall tires... on Duallys.

On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 12:07:09 PM UTC-5, Mojo wrote:

[Mojo]

Hi Doug, I have two sets of wheels for the Plus. The offroad wheels have a WTB Scraper rim up front because it is symmetrical & tubeless friendly. The offroad rear has a Surly Rabbit Hole rim that I have built up asymmetrically for dishless rear wheel. I like the Chupacabra tires a lot. Do you?

The 'road' wheels have Velocity rims, a P35 front and asymmeyrical Synergy on the rear for less dish on that wheel too. The Super Moto tires seem quite fast. I run them at 25-30/30-35 psi front/rear.

I am not convinced that I am slower on road rides with the Jones & SM slick tires, when compared to my road bikes. I may be selling some bikes.

How tall are you Doug & do you know your Pubic Bone Height? I am quite happy with the Plus 25. It's the only bike I want to ride right now. I may do a road century on it at the end of the month. :-)

[jpar...@myfairpoint.net]

I thought that I would add my 2 cents here.  I have a 25" Jones 29+, have been riding it for almost a year now and I absolutely love it!  I have a second set of wheels that I use with Schwalbe Big One tubeless 2.35" slicks.  I have been amazed at the ride quality on the frost heaved broken pavement so common here in New England this time of year.  This wheel tire combo rolls really fast and a much more comfortable ride than my steel Serotta road bike on these road conditions.

[Dennis Doyle]

How does the ride compare to your Pugsly? I am trying to decide if I should just build up a set of 29+ for the Pugs or make the jump to the Jones.

Also, I have a Fatback 135 front hub. If I buy a through axle for that hub, would it work on the Jones?

Thanks

[Robert Tilley]

Everything I've heard about the Jones has been positive. I have a Pugsley as well and also want a Jones but I'm not ready to drop that much cash yet. Bicycle Quarterly reviewed a Jones 29er in issue 51. A positive review from the BOB list can be found here:

‎https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!msg/internet-bob/v92_t69-FYQ/_l-CNqlJLOMJ

Robert Tilley
San Diego, CA

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
  Original Message  
From: Dennis Doyle
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 4:38 PM
To: bicycletouring
Subject: [touring] A Review of Jones Plus Bike

How does the ride compare to your Pugsly? I am trying to decide if I should just build up a set of 29+ for the Pugs or make the jump to the Jones.

Also, I have a Fatback 135 front hub. If I buy a through axle for that hub, would it work on the Jones?

Thanks

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[Matthew J]

Titanium Plus is on the way.

[Mojo]

There is a new review of the Jones Plus.

http://www.bikepacking.com/bikes/jones-plus-review/