The one type of crash that might truly be unavoidable: the oncoming drift
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Serge Issakov
Oct 27, 2012, 8:06:43 PM10/27/12
to BicycleDriving
This is the type of crash that killed Ken Kifer, and I don't know how this type of crash can be avoided.
Trent Graham, 30, was riding his bicycle along Evergreen Way just south of the intersection with SW Everett Mall Way.
Just after 7:15 p.m., a southbound pickup drifted left across three northbound lanes and struck the curb, Graham and a power pole, Everett police officer Aaron Snell said.
Wayne Pein
Oct 27, 2012, 8:59:44 PM10/27/12
to BicycleDriving
The only countermeasure is bicyclist awareness and skill. But that may
not be enough without luck. There's no way to know how many crazy almost
crashes are avoided due to skill and luck.
In the rain a motorist Left Crossed me on a 5 lane road. I did a
countersteer Quick Right, and went into a 2-wheel power slide on my road
bike, barely avoiding collision as the pickup truck zipped by. I wasn't
planning on skidding sideways but since it was slick that's what
happened. Somehow I stayed up. Not sure what would have happened had it
been dry and the Quick Right executed as designed; maybe avoided, maybe
collided.
Wayne
not be enough without luck. There's no way to know how many crazy almost
crashes are avoided due to skill and luck.
In the rain a motorist Left Crossed me on a 5 lane road. I did a
countersteer Quick Right, and went into a 2-wheel power slide on my road
bike, barely avoiding collision as the pickup truck zipped by. I wasn't
planning on skidding sideways but since it was slick that's what
happened. Somehow I stayed up. Not sure what would have happened had it
been dry and the Quick Right executed as designed; maybe avoided, maybe
collided.
Wayne
Serge Issakov
Oct 27, 2012, 9:02:12 PM10/27/12
to Wayne Pein, BicycleDriving
Yes, but left crosses can be mitigated by adjusting one's speed so that intersection arrival is not simultaneous, and taking other measure to assure being noticed.
Serge
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John S. Allen
Oct 28, 2012, 12:30:46 AM10/28/12
to Wayne Pein, BicycleDriving
This is also the type of crash that killed my friend Al Lester and
another competitor in the same 24-hour race in upstate New York, in
two separate incidents. Both motorists were teenagers who had been at
the same drinking party, were going way above the speed limit and
failed to negotiate right-hand curves. One of them died too when his
car smashed into a boulder and, according to news reports, "exploded."
As I recall, there was a woman cyclist, a masters racer, killed this
way somewhere in the mid-Atlantic states a few years ago -- she was
third in line with two other cyclists who both saw the car coming,
and swerved out of the way, but she didn't. Can anyone recall her name?
A year ago I could have got this from a police car headed for some
incident with lights flashing -- but no siren -- though I had heard
other police cars with sirens and it wasn't that police were in
stealth mode. I was on a left-hand curve and had no warning of the
police car that pulled out to overtake a van on a narrow two-lane
road. If I had been riding in the middle of the lane rather than near
its right (my choice, as there was no traffic behind me), this would
have been a major blemish on the reputation of the Weston,
Massachusetts police department. A motorcyclist would have been
riding in the middle of the lane, would definitely have had a head-on
collision and almost certainly been killed.
Commonly, as in my Weston incident, this kind of crash occurs when a
vehicle pulls out to overtake on a two-lane rural road or highway. It
gives me second thoughts about claiming the right lane on rural roads
if there is no traffic or sight line problem on the right requiring
lane control. Sight lines ahead and the prospect of avoiding a
head-on are better when closer to the right side of the road.
This is of course a kind of crash that is not specific to cyclists.
It also kills motorists. I easily could have died or been seriously
injured with my wife and son in Bethel, Vermont a few years ago,
driving home from vacation. A 16-year-old driver was looking over his
right shoulder for something in the back of his pickup truck, on a
gentle right curve. I was glancing at the speedometer and didn't see
the truck start to drift into my lane-- my wife called out and I
managed to swerve right so the crash was only a sideswipe. The car
had air bags (that didn't go off-- it was a light impact -- , and we
all were seatbelted, but the car was a station wagon and the back was
packed with stuff which would have launched itself at us over the
seat backs at us. Our rather old car was driveable once I pulled out
part of the left rear quarter panel that was dragging on the tire,
but it was totaled, as repairs would cost more than its book value.
John S. Allen
jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
http://bikexprt.com
another competitor in the same 24-hour race in upstate New York, in
two separate incidents. Both motorists were teenagers who had been at
the same drinking party, were going way above the speed limit and
failed to negotiate right-hand curves. One of them died too when his
car smashed into a boulder and, according to news reports, "exploded."
As I recall, there was a woman cyclist, a masters racer, killed this
way somewhere in the mid-Atlantic states a few years ago -- she was
third in line with two other cyclists who both saw the car coming,
and swerved out of the way, but she didn't. Can anyone recall her name?
A year ago I could have got this from a police car headed for some
incident with lights flashing -- but no siren -- though I had heard
other police cars with sirens and it wasn't that police were in
stealth mode. I was on a left-hand curve and had no warning of the
police car that pulled out to overtake a van on a narrow two-lane
road. If I had been riding in the middle of the lane rather than near
its right (my choice, as there was no traffic behind me), this would
have been a major blemish on the reputation of the Weston,
Massachusetts police department. A motorcyclist would have been
riding in the middle of the lane, would definitely have had a head-on
collision and almost certainly been killed.
Commonly, as in my Weston incident, this kind of crash occurs when a
vehicle pulls out to overtake on a two-lane rural road or highway. It
gives me second thoughts about claiming the right lane on rural roads
if there is no traffic or sight line problem on the right requiring
lane control. Sight lines ahead and the prospect of avoiding a
head-on are better when closer to the right side of the road.
This is of course a kind of crash that is not specific to cyclists.
It also kills motorists. I easily could have died or been seriously
injured with my wife and son in Bethel, Vermont a few years ago,
driving home from vacation. A 16-year-old driver was looking over his
right shoulder for something in the back of his pickup truck, on a
gentle right curve. I was glancing at the speedometer and didn't see
the truck start to drift into my lane-- my wife called out and I
managed to swerve right so the crash was only a sideswipe. The car
had air bags (that didn't go off-- it was a light impact -- , and we
all were seatbelted, but the car was a station wagon and the back was
packed with stuff which would have launched itself at us over the
seat backs at us. Our rather old car was driveable once I pulled out
part of the left rear quarter panel that was dragging on the tire,
but it was totaled, as repairs would cost more than its book value.
jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
http://bikexprt.com
Bob Sutterfield
Oct 28, 2012, 2:35:16 AM10/28/12
to BicycleDriving
In March 2008 a Deputy in the Santa Clara County Sheriff's Department dozed off and drifted across the centerline, where his car struck and killed two oncoming cyclists and injured a third. He pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor counts of vehicular manslaughter.
Bruce Kulik
Oct 28, 2012, 10:45:11 PM10/28/12
to bicycle...@googlegroups.com
My daughter and I completed a self-supported cross country bicycle tour
this summer. We generally did not have any problem with traffic, but
there were two types of situations that we found surprising and became
more mindful of as the trip went on.
The first was as described by John below, when an oncoming vehicle would
overtake another oncoming vehicle without noticing us. This was most
prevalent through the plains and in the Nevada desert, but also occurred
on downhills though Pennsylvania where we would need to take aggressive
evasive action to avoid a collision.
At times where the shoulder was wide enough, we would choose to ride
there instead of in the lane, only to be surprised by oncoming traffic
passing as high speed just a few feet to our left as they overtook
another vehicle. In many areas (Nevada being the most common) A two foot
continuous rumble strip was installed just to the right of the fog line,
with insufficient paved width to ride to its right. This would force us
into the travel lane where we then need to be extremely mindful of
oncoming traffic as well as overtaking traffic.
When I was able to notice oncoming traffic that might evoke a passing
situation (only about once or twice an hour in the desert), I would put
my headlight on to provide better visibility. Unfortunately my
headlight battery is only good for about 3 hours, and we could never be
sure when we might need it for nighttime riding, so I couldn't leave it
on all day.
The second situation occurred on downhills where we might be traveling
at 30-40 MPH. A large truck (often oil or gas exploration support
vehicles) would overtake us without sufficient sight distance, and then
be surprised by oncoming traffic before fully clearing us. They would,
of course, make the decision to take us out rather than to risk a
collision with the oncoming vehicle. Fortunately it was easier to see
this situation developing and take action early enough to avoid
aggressive evasive action when the truck pulled back over prematurely.
A scary maneuver, nonetheless.
Bruce Kulik
On 10/28/2012 12:30 AM, John S. Allen wrote:
> ...
this summer. We generally did not have any problem with traffic, but
there were two types of situations that we found surprising and became
more mindful of as the trip went on.
The first was as described by John below, when an oncoming vehicle would
overtake another oncoming vehicle without noticing us. This was most
prevalent through the plains and in the Nevada desert, but also occurred
on downhills though Pennsylvania where we would need to take aggressive
evasive action to avoid a collision.
At times where the shoulder was wide enough, we would choose to ride
there instead of in the lane, only to be surprised by oncoming traffic
passing as high speed just a few feet to our left as they overtook
another vehicle. In many areas (Nevada being the most common) A two foot
continuous rumble strip was installed just to the right of the fog line,
with insufficient paved width to ride to its right. This would force us
into the travel lane where we then need to be extremely mindful of
oncoming traffic as well as overtaking traffic.
When I was able to notice oncoming traffic that might evoke a passing
situation (only about once or twice an hour in the desert), I would put
my headlight on to provide better visibility. Unfortunately my
headlight battery is only good for about 3 hours, and we could never be
sure when we might need it for nighttime riding, so I couldn't leave it
on all day.
The second situation occurred on downhills where we might be traveling
at 30-40 MPH. A large truck (often oil or gas exploration support
vehicles) would overtake us without sufficient sight distance, and then
be surprised by oncoming traffic before fully clearing us. They would,
of course, make the decision to take us out rather than to risk a
collision with the oncoming vehicle. Fortunately it was easier to see
this situation developing and take action early enough to avoid
aggressive evasive action when the truck pulled back over prematurely.
A scary maneuver, nonetheless.
Bruce Kulik
On 10/28/2012 12:30 AM, John S. Allen wrote:
> ...
> Commonly, as in my Weston incident, this kind of crash occurs when a
> vehicle pulls out to overtake on a two-lane rural road or highway. It
> gives me second thoughts about claiming the right lane on rural roads if
> there is no traffic or sight line problem on the right requiring lane
> control. Sight lines ahead and the prospect of avoiding a head-on are
> better when closer to the right side of the road.
> ...
> vehicle pulls out to overtake on a two-lane rural road or highway. It
> gives me second thoughts about claiming the right lane on rural roads if
> there is no traffic or sight line problem on the right requiring lane
> control. Sight lines ahead and the prospect of avoiding a head-on are
> better when closer to the right side of the road.
Serge Issakov
Oct 29, 2012, 11:15:09 AM10/29/12
to John S. Allen, Wayne Pein, BicycleDriving
I think I would distinguish these two types of crashes involving oncoming traffic:
A) Oncoming driver inadvertently drifts across onto other side of road.
B) Oncoming driver, thinking the other way is clear, intentionally crosses over onto other side of road in order to pass slower traffic.
The main reason to distinguish them is because, like I originally said, I can think of no way to prevent crashes of Type A, but I do think crashes of Type B are more predictable and can be mitigated, primarily because the driver involved is alert enough to have decided to pass another vehicle. At least during periods of no other same-direction traffic (when a cross-the-center-line-pass is most likely), being positioned where the driver is expecting and looking for oncoming traffic, in the middle of traffic lane, is probably the best course. John's reasoning that he would have been hit by the police car had he been in the middle of the lane rather than far right in the lane presumes positioning had no effect on the apparent fact that he was either not noticed or was noticed but dismissed as irrelevant due to being apparently out of the way.
Ironically, last night I was involved in a pull-out close-call of sorts because I, driving my car, initially overlooked a far-right bicyclist even though he had a bright head light. I nudged out in a right-on-red situation preparing to proceed when I suddenly noticed him and hit the brakes. It wasn't really that close, though he did start swerving and slowing a bit in reaction to my initial proceeding. In thinking about what had happened I realized that I had probably turned right there thousands of times since I first moved to San Diego in 1979, and can't recall ever seeing a cyclist coming from my left there. What I did without thinking was look for traffic in the traffic lanes, and seeing none, assumed it was clear to proceed. So much of driving is habitual.
Anyway, I think a similar thing occurs when someone is on a 2-lane road behind slower traffic and anticipating passing. What they are looking for is whether the oncoming lane is clear - a far-right cyclist is likely to not register, at least not immediately, as traffic in the lane preventing the pass.
Serge
Willie Hunt
Oct 29, 2012, 11:52:20 AM10/29/12
to bicycle...@googlegroups.com, John S. Allen, Wayne Pein
When I'm cycling these roads, I watch for passing motorists. If I think they will not make the pass before they reach me, I dive for the shoulder or off the road if need be. I recall maybe 2 times in 20 years that I've had to alter my course for a passing motorist.
Willie
On Monday, October 29, 2012 8:15:11 AM UTC-7, Serge Issakov wrote:
On Monday, October 29, 2012 8:15:11 AM UTC-7, Serge Issakov wrote:
....................
Anyway, I think a similar thing occurs when someone is on a 2-lane road behind slower traffic and anticipating passing. What they are looking for is whether the oncoming lane is clear - a far-right cyclist is likely to not register, at least not immediately, as traffic in the lane preventing the pass.Serge
On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 9:30 PM, John S. Allen <jsa...@bikexprt.com> wrote:
........
Commonly, as in my Weston incident, this kind of crash occurs when a vehicle pulls out to overtake on a two-lane rural road or highway. It gives me second thoughts about claiming the right lane on rural roads if there is no traffic or sight line problem on the right requiring lane control. Sight lines ahead and the prospect of avoiding a head-on are better when closer to the right side of the road.
..........
beck michaels
Oct 29, 2012, 12:40:28 PM10/29/12
to Willie Hunt, bicycle...@googlegroups.com, Serge Issakov, John S. Allen, Wayne Pein
Willie mentions daytime headlights.
All this commentary about oncoming conflicts strongly suggests the value in flashing, daytime safety lights for bicyclists to enhance safety from less than attentive motorists....
the anecdotal reports that circulate among high mileage commuters on motorist awareness of high powered daytime flashing lights are pretty impressive. haven't seen anything in the research though.
heck, a bright strobe light might even pull some of those drifting off to sleep, drifting in the lane motorists back to conciousness long enough to pass safely!
Beck
From: Willie Hunt <willi...@gmail.com>
To: bicycle...@googlegroups.com
Cc: John S. Allen <jsa...@bikexprt.com>; Wayne Pein <wp...@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [BicycleDriving] The one type of crash that might truly be unavoidable: the oncoming drift
Allen Muchnick
Oct 29, 2012, 4:57:01 PM10/29/12
to bicycle...@googlegroups.com
I believe John is referencing the notorious crash in Seneca MD (outside Washington DC) that killed triathlete Judy Flannery in April 1997. The oncoming car was reportedly driven by an unlicensed minor, sitting beside his drunken father.
Allen Muchnick
Arlington VA
Allen Muchnick
Arlington VA
Bruce Kulik
Oct 29, 2012, 9:24:45 PM10/29/12
to bicycle...@googlegroups.com
I use my headlight in steady mode during daylight as well as at night on
my daily suburban commute. It is extremely rare for someone to pull out
in front of me from the right or to left cross me, as long as I am well
positioned, and not too far to the right. All of my 2-lane commuting
streets are no passing zones, so I have never encountered an incursion
due to oncoming overtaking traffic.
bk
my daily suburban commute. It is extremely rare for someone to pull out
in front of me from the right or to left cross me, as long as I am well
positioned, and not too far to the right. All of my 2-lane commuting
streets are no passing zones, so I have never encountered an incursion
due to oncoming overtaking traffic.
bk
John S. Allen
Oct 30, 2012, 12:14:24 PM10/30/12
to Serge Issakov, Wayne Pein, BicycleDriving
At 11:15 AM 10/29/2012, Serge Issakov wrote:
>I think I would distinguish these two types of crashes involving
>oncoming traffic:
>
>A) Oncoming driver inadvertently drifts across onto other side of road.
>B) Oncoming driver, thinking the other way is clear, intentionally
>crosses over onto other side of road in order to pass slower traffic.
>
>The main reason to distinguish them is because, like I originally
>said, I can think of no way to prevent crashes of Type A, but I do
>think crashes of Type B are more predictable and can be mitigated,
>primarily because the driver involved is alert enough to have
>decided to pass another vehicle. At least during periods of no
>other same-direction traffic (when a cross-the-center-line-pass is
>most likely), being positioned where the driver is expecting and
>looking for oncoming traffic, in the middle of traffic lane, is
>probably the best course. John's reasoning that he would have
>been hit by the police car had he been in the middle of the lane
>rather than far right in the lane presumes positioning had no effect
>on the apparent fact that he was either not noticed or was noticed
>but dismissed as irrelevant due to being apparently out of the way.
No! Not in this case. The road (two-lane, about 22 feet wide) curved
>I think I would distinguish these two types of crashes involving
>oncoming traffic:
>
>A) Oncoming driver inadvertently drifts across onto other side of road.
>B) Oncoming driver, thinking the other way is clear, intentionally
>crosses over onto other side of road in order to pass slower traffic.
>
>The main reason to distinguish them is because, like I originally
>said, I can think of no way to prevent crashes of Type A, but I do
>think crashes of Type B are more predictable and can be mitigated,
>primarily because the driver involved is alert enough to have
>decided to pass another vehicle. At least during periods of no
>other same-direction traffic (when a cross-the-center-line-pass is
>most likely), being positioned where the driver is expecting and
>looking for oncoming traffic, in the middle of traffic lane, is
>probably the best course. John's reasoning that he would have
>been hit by the police car had he been in the middle of the lane
>rather than far right in the lane presumes positioning had no effect
>on the apparent fact that he was either not noticed or was noticed
>but dismissed as irrelevant due to being apparently out of the way.
left and so the van hid the police car which was about to pass it. I
didn't notice the car, nor could the driver see me, until it was too
late for me to quick-turn out of the wy. If I had been in the middle
of the lane I would have been struck head-on by the police car at a
closing speed around 40 mph, and probably killed.
John S. Allen
Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com
League Cycling Instructor #77-C
http://john-s-allen.com/blog
http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts
John S. Allen
Oct 30, 2012, 12:10:13 PM10/30/12
to Allen Muchnick, bicycle...@googlegroups.com
At 04:57 PM 10/29/2012, Allen Muchnick wrote:
I believe John is referencing the notorious crash in Seneca MD (outside Washington DC) that killed triathlete Judy Flannery in April 1997. The oncoming car was reportedly driven by an unlicensed minor, sitting beside his drunken father.
Allen Muchnick
Arlington VA
Yes. That would be it. Boils my blood reading about it.
John S. Allen
Technical Writer/Editor,
http://sheldonbrown.com
League Cycling Instructor #77-C
jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
http://bikexprt.com
Serge Issakov
Oct 30, 2012, 12:22:43 PM10/30/12
to John S. Allen, Wayne Pein, BicycleDriving
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 9:14 AM, John S. Allen <jsa...@bikexprt.com> wrote:
At 11:15 AM 10/29/2012, Serge Issakov wrote:No! Not in this case. The road (two-lane, about 22 feet wide) curved left and so the van hid the police car which was about to pass it. I didn't notice the car, nor could the driver see me, until it was too late for me to quick-turn out of the wy. If I had been in the middle of the lane I would have been struck head-on by the police car at a closing speed around 40 mph, and probably killed.
I think I would distinguish these two types of crashes involving oncoming traffic:
A) Oncoming driver inadvertently drifts across onto other side of road.
B) Oncoming driver, thinking the other way is clear, intentionally crosses over onto other side of road in order to pass slower traffic.
The main reason to distinguish them is because, like I originally said, I can think of no way to prevent crashes of Type A, but I do think crashes of Type B are more predictable and can be mitigated, primarily because the driver involved is alert enough to have decided to pass another vehicle. At least during periods of no other same-direction traffic (when a cross-the-center-line-pass is most likely), being positioned where the driver is expecting and looking for oncoming traffic, in the middle of traffic lane, is probably the best course. John's reasoning that he would have been hit by the police car had he been in the middle of the lane rather than far right in the lane presumes positioning had no effect on the apparent fact that he was either not noticed or was noticed but dismissed as irrelevant due to being apparently out of the way.
John S. Allen
So he passed in the oncoming lane while going around a blind curve? Wow!
Serge
John S. Allen
Oct 31, 2012, 1:47:40 PM10/31/12
to Serge Issakov, Wayne Pein, BicycleDriving
At 12:22 PM 10/30/2012, Serge Issakov wrote:
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 9:14 AM, John S. Allen <jsa...@bikexprt.com> wrote:
- At 11:15 AM 10/29/2012, Serge Issakov wrote:
- I think I would distinguish these two types of crashes involving oncoming traffic:
- A) Oncoming driver inadvertently drifts across onto other side of road.
- B) Oncoming driver, thinking the other way is clear, intentionally crosses over onto other side of road in order to pass slower traffic.
- The main reason to distinguish them is because, like I originally said, I can think of no way to prevent crashes of Type A, but I do think crashes of Type B are more predictable and can be mitigated, primarily because the driver involved is alert enough to have decided to pass another vehicle. Â At least during periods of no other same-direction traffic (when a cross-the-center-line-pass is most likely), being positioned where the driver is expecting and looking for oncoming traffic, in the middle of traffic lane, is probably the best course. Â Â John's reasoning that he would have been hit by the police car had he been in the middle of the lane rather than far right in the lane presumes positioning had no effect on the apparent fact that he was either not noticed or was noticed but dismissed as irrelevant due to being apparently out of the way.
- No! Not in this case. The road (two-lane, about 22 feet wide) curved left and so the van hid the police car which was about to pass it. I didn't notice the car, nor could the driver see me, until it was too late for me to quick-turn out of the wy. If I had been in the middle of the lane I would have been struck head-on by the police car at a closing speed around 40 mph, and probably killed.
- John S. Allen
So he passed in the oncoming lane while going around a blind curve? Â Wow!
Not a blind curve but a blindspot past the van. He couldn't see what was past the van. Or perhaps he could see around its right side and would have seen a vehicle closer to the centerline. But, with an oncoming vehicle already close ahead, I chose to keep farther right in case *that* vehicle drifted left.
The officer either never looked past the van, or looked past it on its right side, at which time I was already concealed by it. Whether he would have seen me if I was riding farther left, I don't know, but I doubt it. Thing is, because I was going slower then the usual speed of traffic, I was farther ahead and so in the blindspot sooner.
Rodney Rudinger
Nov 8, 2012, 3:48:42 PM11/8/12
to John S. Allen, Serge Issakov, Wayne Pein, BicycleDriving
Short of "jumping the curb", I see little the cyclist could have done to prevent the accident. It's unfortunate the motorist didn't kill himself with a head-on crash or running off the road. This kind of crash, and the one involving the trooper, in my mind points out the need to make our traffic laws more strict with respect to these kinds of "accidents".
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