Re: [BicycleDriving] An Open Letter to Drivers from a Cyclist

[Herman Frederick Ebeling, Jr.]

Serge,

That's very good, thank you for sharing.

Sent from my Nexus 7 tablet.

On Jun 18, 2014 8:03 PM, Serge Issakov <serge....@gmail.com> wrote:

It's refreshing to read all the pushback this guy is getting for saying things like he hates cyclists who take up the whole road and that cyclists try to ride as far right as they can.

http://www.bike198.com/open-letter-drivers-cyclist/

--
--
To post: bicycle...@googlegroups.com
Only rule: no personal commentary (please comment about content, not people)
 
To unsubscribe: bicycledrivin...@googlegroups.com
 
Group website: http://groups.google.com/group/bicycledriving
Discussion archives: http://groups.google.com/group/bicycledriving/topics?hl=en
Glossary: http://groups.google.com/group/bicycledriving/web/glossary
Links: http://groups.google.com/group/bicycledriving/web/links

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BicycleDriving" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bicycledrivin...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Herman Frederick Ebeling, Jr.]

Serge,

If you have problems with what he said, why post it in the first place? Or at the very least why not point out the shortcomings when you initially shared it?

Sent from my Nexus 7 tablet.

On Jun 19, 2014 2:05 PM, Serge Issakov <serge....@gmail.com> wrote:

Home run? He struck out.

Strike 1 - He refers to cyclists who use the full lane as taking "up all of the road", that they "run three wide for no reason", and refers to them as "asshole road bikers" and that he hates them.  This emboldens road rage. 

By the way, a recent article explains why two abreast riding makes sense, and much of it applies to "three wide" riding too.  http://www.bikelaw.com/2014/06/18/riding-two-abreast/

Strike 2- He claims "these irate/asshole cyclists" throw water bottles at cars, as if bicyclists due that commonly, much less unprovoked.

Strike 3 - He says "We want to stay as far to the right on the road as we can".   He explains why cyclists don't quite ride at the edge because of debris, but makes no mention of riding further left in order to improve sight lines, buffer space, and to discourage dangerously close within-lane passing.

With friends like that....

On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Rodney Rudinger <rodrud...@gmail.com> wrote:

Actually, with a couple of exceptions (and some grammatical and spelling errors), I think that Robb hit a home run.  His feelings run pretty much the same as mine do.  I've seen things from both sides of the windshield, and feel that motorists and cyclists could profit from seeing each other's point of view.  With respect to his remark about motorist-cyclist conflict being in the news, it is possible it has been in the news more lately, partially due to more cyclists being on the road and the public in general being put under more time pressure; being asked to accomplish more in less time.  I began cycling in the late '60's and it seemed to me at that time motorists were more deferential and courteous to cyclists, and a little more relaxed.  In our sped-up world of today, motorists are less courteous and more aggressive.  Truckers and Deliverypersons in particular are trying to meet a tight (and sometimes impossible) schedule, and every second is precious to them.  I would refer readers to the posting about motorists' attitudes towards cyclists made some months ago, which referred readers to a study done by a university in Britain.

As I said, I began riding in the late '60's, at about the time that the cycling fad began, which I believe happened because of the environmental and physical fitness movements.  It was also fun.  Today, more people are riding out of economic necessity, either trying to stretch their budgets or having to give up the personal automobile because of price and the cost of fuel and maintenance.  I was in the former category, and while I cycle for pleasure, I also do errands and commute by bike;  Robb left this out of his commentary.

On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Bill Davidson <bill.d...@gmail.com> wrote:

Most of that push back is you and me.

--
Bicycling Street Smarts
http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/index.htm
California Vehicle Code 21202
http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21202.htm
California Vehicle Code 21750
http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21750.htm

[Serge Issakov]

I posted it because of the comments being posted in response, which, as I said from the outset, I found refreshing.  Like this one:

Kevin Elder · Follow · Founder at Mooresville Area Cyclists
Bike198, if this is how you ride, you're asking to be run over. I'm going to have to disagree with most of what you wrote. This seems like something a very inexperienced rider would say in order to kiss the arse of the big scary monster so they don't hurt you. We really do have just as much right to the roads as motorists do. The whole road. Not just a few inches near the edge. We need to own that. <snipped out part on running red lights that I'm not so keen about>

[Rodney Rudinger]

Yours and Kevin's comments are unfortunate, and may be a result of different or mis-interpretation of the posting.  Granted, the law says that we have the right to the full lane, but I see nothing wrong with working with motorists to make life easier for both of us.  There was nothing explicit in Robb's posting about bicycle driving, I suspect you inferred it from his comments about discourteous riders.  I'm against boorish and dangerous behavior, regardless of what side of the windshield you're on I've always been opposed to in-your-face bicycling, whatever the reasoning, and I see nothing wrong with asking for a little civility on the road.

[Serge Issakov]

Perhaps I misunderstood, but then exactly who do you think he is talking about when he says this?

We hate asshole road bikers as much as you do

You know the type. They take up all of the road, run three wide for no reason ...
...

These irate/asshole cyclists not only give us a bad name in general, they also make the roads less safe...

I, for one, don't know the type.  But I know some people think bicyclists using the full lane and not riding single file at the road edge are that type.

Serge

[Michael Graff]

On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Serge Issakov <serge....@gmail.com> quoted:

They take up all of the road ... for no reason

This is a common error, writing "road" instead of "lane". Cyclists are far too narrow to take up an entire road.

But bicycle drivers will control a standard (non-sharable-width) lane for reasons that are well known in this forum.

[Herman F. Ebeling, Jr.]

Rodney,

 

I agree with you, but that should be a two-way road, i.e. motorists shouldn't be going out of their way to make our lives rough.  They also need to realize that they need to work with us as well.

---------------------------------
Herman F. Ebeling, Jr.
Live Long and Prosper

Jun 23, 2014 16:41:10, rodrud...@gmail.com wrote:

Yours and Kevin's comments are unfortunate, and may be a result of different or mis-interpretation of the posting.  Granted, the law says that we have the right to the full lane, but I see nothing wrong with working with motorists to make life easier for both of us.  There was nothing explicit in Robb's posting about bicycle driving, I suspect you inferred it from his comments about discourteous riders.  I'm against boorish and dangerous behavior, regardless of what side of the windshield you're on I've always been opposed to in-your-face bicycling, whatever the reasoning, and I see nothing wrong with asking for a little civility on the road.

>
>

On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 5:09 PM, Serge Issakov <serge....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>

I posted it because of the comments being posted in response, which, as I said from the outset, I found refreshing.  Like this one:

>

> Kevin Elder · Follow · Founder at Mooresville Area Cyclists
>Bike198, if this is how you ride, you're asking to be run over. I'm going to have to disagree with most of what you wrote. This seems like something a very inexperienced rider would say in order to kiss the arse of the big scary monster so they don't hurt you. We really do have just as much right to the roads as motorists do. The whole road. Not just a few inches near the edge. We need to own that.

>

>
>

>

[Scott Mace]

For what it's worth, I just read this thread, and all the comments have been removed from the post, though the post itself remains online.

Scott Mace