Average Distance of Bike Trip in Copenhagen

[Sara R]

From Vintage Bicycle Quarterly, Vol 9 No. 3, Spring 2011
The average bike trip length is 1.2 miles- on flat terrain.
Copenhagen's bike paths must be ridden at low speeds to avoid
accidents at street crossings and bus stops (bus passengers cross the
bike lane to reach the sidewalk). Such paths are unable to provide
efficient transportation over significant distances.
Average km cycled/day 1.3-1.8 k.m.
Average speed (survey): 16.2 km/h
Source: Copenhagen Bicycle Account 2008

[John Forester]

I doubt that the survey answer of average speed being 16.2 km/hr is the
average speed for the whole trip. I suspect that this is the imagined
average speed while moving and not being slowed.

--
John Forester, MS, PE
Bicycle Transportation Engineer
7585 Church St. Lemon Grove CA 91945-2306
619-644-5481 fore...@johnforester.com
www.johnforester.com

[Ian Cooper]

I have to agree with John. On my European bicycle tour in 1984 I averaged 16km/hr for most journeys. But that average speed came way down whenever I had to use bicycle paths. I used to reckon on 16km/hr on roads, but a maximum of 8km/hr (often less) in cities that were so-called 'bicycle friendly', because of the fact that cycle paths and bikeways were so slow.

Fortunately, in those days, few European cities were 'bicycle friendly'. If they'd been as 'bicycle friendly' as they are today, ny year-long trip might have taken two years.

--
To post: bicycle...@googlegroups.com
Only rule: no personal commentary (please comment about content, not people)

To unsubscribe: bicycledrivin...@googlegroups.com

Group website: http://groups.google.com/group/bicycledriving
Discussion archives: http://groups.google.com/group/bicycledriving/topics?hl=en
Glossary: http://groups.google.com/group/bicycledriving/web/glossary
Links: http://groups.google.com/group/bicycledriving/web/links

--
Ian Cooper
Silver Spring, Maryland, USA

[Bob Sutterfield]

Y'all are just a bunch of young white male Spandex snobs, bragging on how fast you can ride  :-)

[Eli Damon]

Seriously though. People tend to jump to the most concrete explanation
they can find. They assume that they are slow because of their physical
condition when really they are slow because they ride in a way that
leads their subconscious mind to limit their speed for
self-preservation. You feel the exact same resistance in your muscles
either way, so it is impossible to tell the difference unless you are
looking for it. I have a friend who keeps talking about getting into
shape so that she make some important trips by bike. I keep telling her
that she is in shape, she just needs to ride more assertively. But she
resists making the connection. Eli

[Ian Cooper]

LOL. I have yet to wear spandex, or any other plastics-based apparel, on any cycle trip I've ever made. Natural fibers FTW!

On 24 May 2011 15:57, Bob Sutterfield <b...@sutterfields.us> wrote:

Y'all are just a bunch of young white male Spandex snobs, bragging on how fast you can ride  :-)

[John S. Allen]

Copenhagen does have some "green waves" set to 20 km/hr -- a result
of protests about slowness. Also, note that the speed is stated as
being derived from a survey. When data are collected directly from
GPS sensors, then it will be easier to verify. I am reminded of the
fatal car-bike collision in Alaska recently in which police were able
to verify that the cyclist had entered the intersection from a left
sidewal, because the cyclist was carrying an IPhone transmitting
location data...

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/police-cyclist-fault-fatal-accident

earlier but more detailed report:

http://www.adn.com/2011/04/05/1793611/cyclist-killed-in-early-morning.html

At 02:11 PM 5/24/2011, John Forester wrote:

>I doubt that the survey answer of average speed being 16.2 km/hr is
>the average speed for the whole trip. I suspect that this is the
>imagined average speed while moving and not being slowed.

John S. Allen

jsallen *at* bikexprt.com

http://bikexprt.com

[John S. Allen]

http://vimeo.com/24572222

[Bjorn Haake]

On 25 Mai, 02:55, "John S. Allen" <jsal...@bikexprt.com> wrote:
> Copenhagen does have some "green waves" set to 20 km/hr -- a result

Tried those, until I hit a red light (which I think was still inside
the 20kmh wave) and looked at my average speed: 18km/h....

http://www.velonation.com/Blogs/Bjorn-Haake/ID/89/Speed-limit-20kmh.aspx

bjorn

[Kalle Mustonen]

Is there a map available of the 20kph green wave streets?
Are the cyclist light phases protected or shared with right turners?

Kalle

[Bob Sutterfield]

My daily bicycle commutes to various jobs over the past fifteen years have ranged from 6.5 miles to 22 miles, each way.  So my average km cycled/day has ranged from 21 to 71 kilometers.  On a 15 mile / 24 km one-way commute from Saratoga to Mountain View (through mostly flat suburban sprawl) my average door-to-door speed is around 16 mph or 26 kph.  (steady cruise speed 22/35, rolling average 17.5/28)

So my daily travel distance is between 12 and 55 times as far as those reported in Copenhagen, and my measured door-to-door travel speed is 1.6 times as fast as their survey results.

If I were constrained by facility design and traffic congestion to travel at such low speeds as those reported in Copenhagen, I wouldn't be able to accomplish a useful amount of traveling in the time I have available for traveling.  I would certainly need to revert to motorized transportation.

How are Copenhagen-style facilities supposed to encourage a mode share shift, from motoring to cycling, in American conditions?

[John Forester]

At one time I lived in Palo Alto and commuted to Redwood City, at another time I lived in Sunnyvale (near the airfield) and had frequent reason to commute to Stanford Research. That was 11 miles going north and I often did it in 44 minutes, = 15 mph. Returning was rarely a straight trip; shopping on the flats, or fun over the Los Altos Hills, so no averages were possible.

--
To post: bicycle...@googlegroups.com
Only rule: no personal commentary (please comment about content, not people)
 
To unsubscribe: bicycledrivin...@googlegroups.com
 
Group website: http://groups.google.com/group/bicycledriving
Discussion archives: http://groups.google.com/group/bicycledriving/topics?hl=en
Glossary: http://groups.google.com/group/bicycledriving/web/glossary
Links: http://groups.google.com/group/bicycledriving/web/links

[Bjorn Haake]

On 13 Jun., 22:51, Kalle Mustonen <kalle.musto...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Is there a map available of the 20kph green wave streets?

I am not aware of one. I think there were two main green wave streets
when I was there. One is on Nørrebrogade, which is the one I used.

> Are the cyclist light phases protected or shared with right turners?

I don't recall that any of them were protected along the green wave. I
can actually only remember one that truly was protected completely.
Most were just discriminating against cyclists without taking away
right hook chances:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G320oSxJBKY

bjorn

[Bjorn Haake]

On 13 Jun., 23:20, Bob Sutterfield <b...@sutterfields.us> wrote:

> How are Copenhagen-style facilities supposed to encourage a mode share
> shift, from motoring to cycling, in American conditions?

I don't know if that is the goal. I think the goal is to gather
cyclists into a central location so that bike counts can go up there
for marketing reasons. Freiburg says it has a bike share mode of some
25 percent. I have been commuting now for a year here, going along the
entire western edge of town and there is no way it is 25 percent.

This reminds me on entering Denmark, where for the first 100km or so I
saw three other cyclists (despite the fact that about 75% of that
route was on a separate cycle track). So much for the idea that
facilities will attract cyclists...

bjorn

[Kalle Mustonen]

Nørrebrogade seems to have 40kph limit, so probably the 20kph green
wave existed there a long time hidden in the 40kph green wave before
the bikeway marketing dept discovered it.

Kalle

[Bob Shanteau]

On 06/18/2011 11:08 AM, Kalle Mustonen wrote:

Nørrebrogade seems to have 40kph limit, so probably the 20kph green wave existed there a long time hidden in the 40kph green wave before the bikeway marketing dept discovered it.

Signal timing is one of my areas of expertise. If traffic signals are synchronized for a 40 kph band, then almost certainly there is no 20 kph band also (the exception being a very ideal distance between the signalized intersections). Traffic signal timing engineers work out synchronization patterns on what we call a time-space diagram:



Bob Shanteau

[Kalle Mustonen]

Darn, I didn't take into account that green phases don't follow each
others with no delay!

So providing the 20kph wave for the cyclists the city of Copenhagen
has indeed put cyclist convenience ahead of that of the motorists' at
select locations.

Shame that it's connected with the sidepaths; providing the cyclist
speed green wave on the roadway would be better. 20 kph is bit on the
low side; I think even the "euro town" cyclist will do 25kph easily.

Kalle

On 18 kesä, 22:53, Bob Shanteau <rmsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 06/18/2011 11:08 AM, Kalle Mustonen wrote:
>

> > N�rrebrogade seems to have 40kph limit, so probably the 20kph green wave existed there a long time hidden in the 40kph green wave before the bikeway marketing dept discovered it.

>
> Signal timing is one of my areas of expertise. If traffic signals are
> synchronized for a 40 kph band, then almost certainly there is no 20 kph
> band also (the exception being a very ideal distance between the
> signalized intersections). Traffic signal timing engineers work out
> synchronization patterns on what we call a time-space diagram:
>

> <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Time-space_diagram...>
>
> Bob Shanteau

[Tricia Kovacs]

This video confirms my opinion that bicycle signals are not worth the
expense and the added complication. I asked the NACTO folks if laws
would change to require cyclists to use bicycle signals if they exist. I
sure hope not, because I have always operated my bicycle as a vehicle
and I don't want to be treated any differently. Does anyone know if new
laws were added in Tucson for their bicycle signals?
I haven't heard anything back from NACTO on bicycle signals or on any of
the other questions I asked about the problems with other facilities
they're promoting.
Tricia Kovacs
Columbus, Ohio

On 6/16/2011 4:57 PM, Bjorn Haake wrote:
> On 13 Jun., 22:51, Kalle Mustonen<kalle.musto...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there a map available of the 20kph green wave streets?
>>
> I am not aware of one. I think there were two main green wave streets

> when I was there. One is on N�rrebrogade, which is the one I used.