URGENT: Resource Person for Linux Crash Course
Joseph Davidton Cadag
The DOST, in cooperation w/ the Provincial Government of Sorsogon, will be having a Linux Crash Course on April 20-21, 2006 at the Sorsogon Provincial Hall in Sorsogon City. Participants will be officials from the provincial and selected municipalities within Sorsogon. Due to unexpected events, the speaker for the two-day forum can not possibly attend. As such, may we request anybody from BiOS/RITECC or someone you know, who will be very willing to share his/her expertise through this event. Our office (DOST) will pay for the transportation and will provide honoraria for the speaker.
Topics to be covered will be: Linux installation, basic operation and commands, working with X-windows, open office, among others. We intend to use Bayanihan Linux for demonstration purposes but the speaker can still decide which distros to use.
Hoping to hear from you. Anyone interested can reach me at 0919-206-5601, 052-821-7930, or through my email.
Thanks.
= Joseph
Fernando Cabredo
Hiello Mr. Cadag,
The Governor of Albay is also interested in having a similar Linux Crash Course for its employees and other LGUs. I have already contacted DOST Manila several months ago but I did not get a reply. If you can provide me the costing and other details of the seminar/workshop, I will forward it to the Governor for his approval.
BTW I prefer Ubuntu Linux as I have an existing installation in our office.
You may contact me at these phone numbers – 8202930/8205319.
Thank you and I look forward for your reply.
Fernando T. Cabredo
Executive Assistant
Office of the Governor
Province of Albay
rick
:-)
Kapag saturdays training ito, ok sa akin bumalik dyan...
haahhahaha....
http://tek4dpipol.blogspot.com/
Zak B. Elep
On 4/19/06, Joseph Davidton Cadag <josephd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The DOST, in cooperation w/ the Provincial Government of Sorsogon, will be
> having a Linux Crash Course on April 20-21, 2006 at the Sorsogon Provincial
> Hall in Sorsogon City. Participants will be officials from the provincial
> and selected municipalities within Sorsogon. Due to unexpected events, the
> speaker for the two-day forum can not possibly attend. As such, may we
> request anybody from BiOS/RITECC or someone you know, who will be very
> willing to share his/her expertise through this event. Our office (DOST)
> will pay for the transportation and will provide honoraria for the speaker.
Gaah, that's today and tomorrow, and I'm sorry that I'm unavailable
for now. =( If the announcement were a bit earlier I may have worked
it into my schedule...
... then again, if this event was to be rescheduled, I would certainly
consider it.
> Topics to be covered will be: Linux installation, basic operation and
> commands, working with X-windows, open office, among others. We intend to
> use Bayanihan Linux for demonstration purposes but the speaker can still
> decide which distros to use.
Regarding which distro to use, I suggest that lets go back to the
`bits and pieces' of a GNU/Linux system and start from there (yeah;
I'm not into jumping the gun and suggesting Ubuntu or Debian or Fedora
;-). Since GNU/Linux's core system is Unix, perhaps a 1-day training
program introducing the Unix shell and toolset would be more
appropriate, before moving towards more sophisticated interactions
using graphical environments by the next day.
--
Zak B. Elep || http://zakame.spunge.org
zak...@ubuntu.com || zak...@spunge.org
1486 7957 454D E529 E4F1 F75E 5787 B1FD FA53 851D
nox
target audience care about the core system that 1 day intro to unix
shells be relevant? does FOSS really have to be that complicated? I
mean a CS audience might think CLI's are sexy, but general desktop
users (or officials from selected municipalities) would think
otherwise.
this is a common mistake in advocating FOSS, way back in the early days
it was inevitable, but times are a-changin. FOSS is in a state that it
can be used by the average-windows-using-Bicolano. lets show them its
as easy to use as commercial alternatives.
cheers!
nox
Zak B. Elep
On 4/24/06, nox <nox...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> this is probably over but the simpleton in me would like to ask: do the
> target audience care about the core system that 1 day intro to unix
> shells be relevant? does FOSS really have to be that complicated? I
> mean a CS audience might think CLI's are sexy, but general desktop
> users (or officials from selected municipalities) would think
> otherwise.
Probably so; its really not that complicated, if one is careful enough
to expound on it. Perhaps the approach to this could be reversed as
well, with a presentation of the desktop environment first before
shell internals; this is really a call for the speaker to make. Which
is why I tagged it as a suggestion, not an imperative ;-)
> this is a common mistake in advocating FOSS, way back in the early days
> it was inevitable, but times are a-changin. FOSS is in a state that it
> can be used by the average-windows-using-Bicolano. lets show them its
> as easy to use as commercial alternatives.
I wouldn't call it a mistake. Perhaps the regular windows desktop
users won't be exploring what lies beneath a FOSS systerm, or perhaps
they would. Again, this is a call to be made, with a little more care
to the needs of the target audience than usual.
Rather, the mistake I see is in advocating FOSS as a mere alternative,
and not as a full-fledged, stand-alone (and yet cooperative at the
same time) approach to solving real problems. I agree rather on
making the easy things easy, and the hard things possible.
Joseph Davidton Cadag
I hope Tito Mari Francis Escano, the speaker of the training, who travelled all the way from Manila for a very short notice,can share his first-hand experiences with OS-newbies. I heard he had a good time and so were the participants.
Regards.
Tito Mari Francis Escaño
government of Sorsogon and DOST-Region 5 for the support they gave to
realize the said event.
The attendants were from the LGUs of Sorsogon, and the approach we
took was to introduce Linux first as an alternative platform, because
people actually have used PCs with Windows almost by default. We have
to introduce Linux as a practical, cost-effective alternative platform
that newbies can install and use, provided that their PCs have
Linux-compatible hardware to begin with.
The 2 day Linux crash course I believe had positive response from the
participants because we discussed and addressed their concerns about
using and eventually shifting to Linux as the primary computing
platform.
We also discussed counterpart applications to what they can or have
used in Windows, like OpenOffice instead of MS Office or GIMP instead
of Photoshop. We discussed a little of command-line interaction as
this is quite intermediate or advance a topic for a 2 day crash course
(keeping the participant's interest high, I rather simplified or
downplayed highly technical discussions).
We also discussed their concern when Linux will probably someday be
also for sale (Linspire comes to mind), also discussed what options
they have regarding Linux distros (I brought Ubuntu installers and
Bayanihan Linux ISO file for CD writing); also discussed OpenBSD as
another alternative platform, should ALL Linux distros demand payment
before we can install and use them.
Overall, I believe we have provided them the answers to their
concerns, as well as options to their concerns, and this has given
them hope of life after Windows, towards what we can call
"Technological Independence", maybe as far as software is concerned.
Thanks again and hopefully we can all meet soon and make Bicol region
the FOSS superpower! :)
--
Tito Mari Francis H. Escaño
Computer Engineer and Free Software Proponent
MEDARD PRILA
Celebrate Earth Day everyday! Discover 10 things you can do to help slow climate change. Yahoo! Earth Day
noxlist
On 04 24, 06, at 8:33 PM, Zak B. Elep wrote:
> Hi nox! =)
ewlo zak ;)
>
> On 4/24/06, nox <nox...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> this is probably over but the simpleton in me would like to ask:
>> do the
>> target audience care about the core system that 1 day intro to unix
>> shells be relevant? does FOSS really have to be that complicated? I
>> mean a CS audience might think CLI's are sexy, but general desktop
>> users (or officials from selected municipalities) would think
>> otherwise.
>
> Probably so; its really not that complicated, if one is careful enough
> to expound on it. Perhaps the approach to this could be reversed as
> well, with a presentation of the desktop environment first before
> shell internals; this is really a call for the speaker to make. Which
> is why I tagged it as a suggestion, not an imperative ;-)
>
Likewise here, I'm suggesting *against* spending 1 day intro to
shells on a 2 day linux crash course with a non-technical audience.
>> this is a common mistake in advocating FOSS, way back in the early
>> days
>> it was inevitable, but times are a-changin. FOSS is in a state
>> that it
>> can be used by the average-windows-using-Bicolano. lets show them its
>> as easy to use as commercial alternatives.
>
> I wouldn't call it a mistake. Perhaps the regular windows desktop
> users won't be exploring what lies beneath a FOSS systerm, or perhaps
> they would. Again, this is a call to be made, with a little more care
> to the needs of the target audience than usual.
>
> Rather, the mistake I see is in advocating FOSS as a mere alternative,
> and not as a full-fledged, stand-alone (and yet cooperative at the
> same time) approach to solving real problems. I agree rather on
> making the easy things easy, and the hard things possible.
>
Get a grip on reality. Even windows is an alternative to us FOSS
loving peeps. Saying that FOSS is an alternative IMHO is a good
marketing/advocacy tactic to get potential new users to get their
feet wet on FOSS. Once they get their feet wet, it would likely be a
natural progression for these users to realize the benefits that FOSS
can offer (full-fledged, stand-alone and yet cooperative at the same
time, approach to solving real problems). The key here is to just
even entice the user to try, to take it for a spin, that would be a
big step towards FOSS land.
For the meantime, we still have a lot of work to do. I'm repeating my
suggestion to keep simplicity in mind to attract Bicolanos to FOSS.
cheers!
nox
noxlist
Rock on! :D
nox
Tito Mari Francis Escaño
so Mr. Cadag should get kudos for the success of the event as well.
Aside from Linux, I plan to advocate BSDs, specifically OpenBSD. Pls
spare me from the Linux vs. BSD debate, ok?
The success of the 2 day Linux crash course in Sorsogon is a victory
for our FOSS advocacy. Thank you very much!
noxlist
On 04 25, 06, at 1:06 PM, Tito Mari Francis Escaño wrote:
>
> Thanks nox! I wouldn't have had the chance at it without Joseph's help
> so Mr. Cadag should get kudos for the success of the event as well.
Cheers to Mr. Cadag!
> Aside from Linux, I plan to advocate BSDs, specifically OpenBSD. Pls
> spare me from the Linux vs. BSD debate, ok?
Hehe, am mostly concerned on the simplicity vs complexity approach of
the advocacy. :D
> The success of the 2 day Linux crash course in Sorsogon is a victory
> for our FOSS advocacy. Thank you very much!
>
Victory indeed. Chairs!
nox
Tito Mari Francis Escaño
> > Aside from Linux, I plan to advocate BSDs, specifically OpenBSD. Pls
> > spare me from the Linux vs. BSD debate, ok?
>
> Hehe, am mostly concerned on the simplicity vs complexity approach of
> the advocacy. :D
Ubuntu and Bayanihan were really for desktop PCs, while Whitebox and
CentOS are for servers.
The BSDs, in my opinion, are generally for the servers. I may use them
for workstations, but still just for server administration.
The issue of simplicity vs. complexity approach of advocacy can be
rsolved by providing the proper presentation of appropriate topic for
the appropirate audience, provided we have ample time. In the case of
Sorsogon's 2 day Linux crash course, we made the discussion very
interactive to provide them adequate answers and make them more
confident to use Linux in general, and Ubuntu or Bayanihan in
particular.
Thanks!
Tito Mari Francis Escaño
of MacOS installation in my old Performa, but it tripped off some of
my PCs, may be due to unidentified hardware.
Overall, it was simpler than even Red Hat-based Linux distros.
Zak B. Elep
This bit ought to be a press release on the BIOS wiki/website ;-)
Cheers,
Zakame
noxlist
I see that you posted your thoughts on this to your blog http://
zakame.spunge.org/blog/2006/04/25/on-pedagogies/ (which we both know
is aggregated). I do not know your intentions but as you have
mentioned its your blog so you are free put anything on it. But you
see, your freedom ends where my nose begins. Keep that in mind when
you quote other people. Moving on.
I prefer to keep the discussion here. For others to see and pitch in
their thoughts on the matter. I value criticism and opinions of
others on the list too. Its nice to see other peoples point of view
even its not exactly something in line with my thoughts. Besides, it
started here, with the intention of a healthy discussion among us
BiOS folks, not an impassioned flamewar. I maybe downright wrong in
my assumptions and opinions, but thru healthy discussions I have the
opportunity to learn *why* I am wrong.
When I said "get a grip on reality", I mean not simply as techie-FOSS-
loving folks like you using a windows machine. I meant it *more* than
that. Ask around. Ask the farmer next door. Ask the teacher next
door. Ask a four year old. Ask the journalism student if he cares
about CLI's over drag and drop. Try NGO's! its a good place to start.
You would see what I mean. Be in those peoples shoes, forget that you
have the innate ability to appreciate the complexity of FOSS. Don't
act as if FOSS is not an alternative. The real world is full of
alternatives. That is the reality. FOSS is not the only thing that
can empower users. Commercial alternatives would not be successful if
it doesn't have that ingredient.
Enticing the users to use FOSS is not deceiving. Unless you are
trying to imply that FOSS has nothing to offer? Am rooting for
simplicity here. The world is complicated as it is. A picture is
worth a thousand words. Imagine if our grade school teachers started
with college lessons. I assume we all started with 1,2,3's and
A,B,C's! And boy how I prefer (more motivated to learn) those with
pretty flash cards than the plain boring ones. Picture the learning
curve. Ask a marketing person for some insights. We are in effect
marketing FOSS for whatever individuals reasons we might have.
Effective (not efficient) marketing, needs a strategy. Am rooting for
basing our marketing strategy on simplicity (to be effective),
whenever applicable.
Oh, on getting the users feet wet, not everyone who comes to a pool
likes to swim. Some just want to enjoy using the pool. We want
Bicolano's to at least try the FOSS pool. If they like it ("Oh boy,
this pool doesn't have viruses visible to the naked eye unlike the
other pool."), who knows, they might want to upgrade their skill and
learn to swim this particular pool. You see, your mindset is you are
a skilled swimming instructor, you forgot that not everyone is
inclined to learn formal swimming lessons, we are living in different
worlds you know.
Keep in mind we are both rooting for FOSS here. I am just concerned
with your suggested advocacy tactic (or pedagogy as you call it, I
prefer simple terms). And of course, mine are also suggestions too.
At the end of the day, it is the people who will actually be there in
the trenches to implement the advocacy, will be free to decide which
tactic to use. Am just pitching in my 0.02 cents.
cheers!
nox
On 04 24, 06, at 8:33 PM, Zak B. Elep wrote:
Tito Mari Francis Escaño
me of the historical struggle of our forefathers in this country for
National Independence.
What's strikingly similar and fearfully true as before is that we all
have almost individual and disparate viewpoint of how we can realize
the objective. In the process, we may have conflicts and factions of
differing philosophy of how we handle the circumstances or execute
series of actions for the objective.
Please be aware not to commit the same mistakes (Aguinaldo executed
Bonifacio over deviating opinions and viewpoints). Bear in mind that
as we get fragmented by factions over difference in viewpoint, the
more that FOSS loses it's credibility.
noxlist
But one thing that Aguinaldo and Bonifacio lack in those days were
communication. That's why I still try to openly communicate my
thoughts on the matter and address the person or group directly.
I however, may also be wrongfully assuming that everyone has the same
perspective on discussions of this nature.
Again my apologies.
cheers!
nox
Zak B. Elep
On 4/26/06, noxlist <nox...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I see that you posted your thoughts on this to your blog http://
> zakame.spunge.org/blog/2006/04/25/on-pedagogies/ (which we both know
> is aggregated). I do not know your intentions but as you have
> mentioned its your blog so you are free put anything on it. But you
> see, your freedom ends where my nose begins. Keep that in mind when
> you quote other people. Moving on.
Well said. But you said so yourself: it is my blog, I get to do what I
want with it. :P
My intention was plain and simple, and included in the last paragraph: I
am tired of all this discussion, which in my opinion is degenerating
into a fanning of flame towards advocacy tactics (and in turn slanting
towards exclusive means which, again, in my opinion, I find too
limiting) that I'd rather voice my thoughts over my blog instead of
continuing to rant about it here. Indeed, not everybody shares my
sentiments (see the comments), just like you; and just like those who
don't share my sentiments, I don't share your own sentiments either.
Oh, I suppose I should have included your name (and probably a link to
your own blog too.) Sorry about that, I was busy writing while tracking
down some Ubuntu/Launchpad bugs... which proves that this issue is
taking far too much than its worth...
> I prefer to keep the discussion here. For others to see and pitch in
> their thoughts on the matter. I value criticism and opinions of
> others on the list too. Its nice to see other peoples point of view
> even its not exactly something in line with my thoughts. Besides, it
> started here, with the intention of a healthy discussion among us
> BiOS folks, not an impassioned flamewar. I maybe downright wrong in
> my assumptions and opinions, but thru healthy discussions I have the
> opportunity to learn *why* I am wrong.
Same here. But unlike you I'm tired of the discussion, and it is taking
too much of my own time to do other work. I posted my thoughts in my
blog to end it there, and I have no intention of bringing up any further
discussion on it here.
I agree with you, that no matter what comes out of this, it is still the
advocate's call to work out the right mix. Let's just drop the harsh
statements and get on with loving FOSS :)
Cheers!
Zakame
noxlist
On 04 26, 06, at 5:57 PM, Zak B. Elep wrote:
> Hello nox! =)
>
> On 4/26/06, noxlist <nox...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I see that you posted your thoughts on this to your blog http://
>> zakame.spunge.org/blog/2006/04/25/on-pedagogies/ (which we both know
>> is aggregated). I do not know your intentions but as you have
>> mentioned its your blog so you are free put anything on it. But you
>> see, your freedom ends where my nose begins. Keep that in mind when
>> you quote other people. Moving on.
>
> Well said. But you said so yourself: it is my blog, I get to do
> what I
> want with it. :P
Imagine if everyone thinks like this.
>
> My intention was plain and simple, and included in the last
> paragraph: I
> am tired of all this discussion, which in my opinion is degenerating
> into a fanning of flame towards advocacy tactics (and in turn slanting
> towards exclusive means which, again, in my opinion, I find too
> limiting) that I'd rather voice my thoughts over my blog instead of
> continuing to rant about it here. Indeed, not everybody shares my
> sentiments (see the comments), just like you; and just like those who
> don't share my sentiments, I don't share your own sentiments either.
>
Exclusivity? You still don't get it. Again, get a grip on reality. A
world not dominated by geeks like us. Is BiOS really aimed toward
the niche Bicolano geek population, or at a broader non-technical
audience?
> Oh, I suppose I should have included your name (and probably a link to
> your own blog too.) Sorry about that, I was busy writing while
> tracking
> down some Ubuntu/Launchpad bugs... which proves that this issue is
> taking far too much than its worth...
What are you implying here? You don't have to include my name (Am not
into name recognition, notice that I don't even include my full name
on my post to this list?). And I thought you are tired of this
discussion. But my apologies if the discussion got in the way with
your "Ubuntu/Launchpad bug tracking".
>
>> I prefer to keep the discussion here. For others to see and pitch in
>> their thoughts on the matter. I value criticism and opinions of
>> others on the list too. Its nice to see other peoples point of view
>> even its not exactly something in line with my thoughts. Besides, it
>> started here, with the intention of a healthy discussion among us
>> BiOS folks, not an impassioned flamewar. I maybe downright wrong in
>> my assumptions and opinions, but thru healthy discussions I have the
>> opportunity to learn *why* I am wrong.
>
> Same here. But unlike you I'm tired of the discussion, and it is
> taking
> too much of my own time to do other work. I posted my thoughts in my
> blog to end it there, and I have no intention of bringing up any
> further
> discussion on it here.
My apologies again for wasting your precious time. Am afraid like you
am also tired of this discussion, if you noticed on a previous thread
which is similar to this, I no longer replied to your last post.
You are assuming that by posting it there on your blog it will end
there. You very well know that your blog is aggregated. That means
this discussion is exposed to those that aggregate your blog. The
discussion as a matter of fact is expanded. Had you posted your
thoughts here on BiOS, I won't bother adding to this thread.
But I can't guarantee that I won't post my thoughts when the need
arise. I do hope you are ok with that. Unless you want things here be
done your way. If thats the case say so, I would understand and would
stay clear of your posts on this list.
>
> I agree with you, that no matter what comes out of this, it is
> still the
> advocate's call to work out the right mix. Let's just drop the harsh
> statements and get on with loving FOSS :)
>
I agree. I do not mean to be harsh. If it seems that way, then I am
wrong, my apologies.
Zak B. Elep
> Exclusivity? You still don't get it. Again, get a grip on reality. A
> world not dominated by geeks like us. Is BiOS really aimed toward
> the niche Bicolano geek population, or at a broader non-technical
> audience?
OK. I hate doing this; but I suppose a refresh of this thread should put
back things into perspective.
If you look back again into the very start of this discussion, I was
only merely providing a suggestion and not an imperative,[0] which I
posted in hopes that there be some thought (for or against) it for the
crash course (which Tito handled rather excellently, while we were all
duking this out.) You were definitely against it,[1] and even in the
face of my compromise,[2] you were still very much disagreeing, to the
point of calling me to `get a grip on reality'.[3]
[0] http://groups.google.com/group/bicol-os-society/msg/0a97691f59245779
[1] http://groups.google.com/group/bicol-os-society/msg/6bdb18d30f6e8f4c
[2] http://groups.google.com/group/bicol-os-society/msg/18c33282ca6f0902
[3] http://groups.google.com/group/bicol-os-society/msg/55cc142cc4493dbd
I'm sorry, but calling me to `get a grip on reality' (twice now) isn't
going to get you nowhere (or me anywhere), either, as I construe it as
an attack on my person. As probably everyone else sees, there is not an
imperative here that would tell us to `teach the CLI, and only the CLI'
or `teach the desktop, and only the desktop;' we are all on the course
of suggestion (and compromise), and everyone is definitely FREE to make
up their own mind on the matter.
And nor was there any dispute about the target audience; we haven't even
begun to explore their attributes exhaustively, and the possibilities to
tap them, so why are you dismissing the teaching of the basic CLI so
readily and angrily?
A more constructive criticism avoiding offense would have been more
welcome, rather than attacking my person. For as far as I can tell, I
have not attacked yours for any reason.
Again, I'm sorry for the above, but that's what I think is needed to
close this misunderstanding properly.
> > Oh, I suppose I should have included your name (and probably a link
> > to your own blog too.) Sorry about that, I was busy writing while
> > tracking down some Ubuntu/Launchpad bugs... which proves that this
> > issue is taking far too much than its worth...
>
> What are you implying here? You don't have to include my name (Am not
> into name recognition, notice that I don't even include my full name
> on my post to this list?). And I thought you are tired of this
> discussion. But my apologies if the discussion got in the way with
> your "Ubuntu/Launchpad bug tracking".
Apologies accepted.
Again, no implications here except what is already said. I supposed
that my above statement was in reply to yours, and I (mis?)construed
that you want credit where due. Hence, it perhaps is my turn to
apologize for that error.
> > Same here. But unlike you I'm tired of the discussion, and it is
> > taking too much of my own time to do other work. I posted my
> > thoughts in my blog to end it there, and I have no intention of
> > bringing up any further discussion on it here.
>
> My apologies again for wasting your precious time. Am afraid like you
> am also tired of this discussion, if you noticed on a previous thread
> which is similar to this, I no longer replied to your last post.
Again, you are forgiven. =) I am not one to bear grudges. I am also not
one to remember previous flamewars either (What last post? =) I am
better at remembering the good things, rather than the bad.
> You are assuming that by posting it there on your blog it will end
> there. You very well know that your blog is aggregated. That means
> this discussion is exposed to those that aggregate your blog. The
> discussion as a matter of fact is expanded. Had you posted your
> thoughts here on BiOS, I won't bother adding to this thread.
It wasn't an assumption; I deliberately posted that on my blog, for the
reasons I have already said elsewhere. I suppose that, in retrospect, I
felt that it no longer just concerned the Bicolano FOSS situation, but
also concerned everyone who's involved into FOSS in one way or another.
My blog's syndication to several Planets is a side effect I am well
aware of, one that I chose to use with some caution; it was not meant to
escape the attention of BiOS, but is meant to escape the trappings of
being a mere retort to a mutating flamewar.
Perhaps, I should have posted my thoughts here instead. But I have no
regrets; I decide where I put my say, and my blog is as available an
avenue for communication as this list.
> But I can't guarantee that I won't post my thoughts when the need
> arise. I do hope you are ok with that. Unless you want things here be
> done your way. If thats the case say so, I would understand and would
> stay clear of your posts on this list.
LOL, I'm not your keeper (or your brother's, too ;-) Say what you like,
and I'll say what I like, as long as its on-topic, ok for your $DEITY,
and civil, or else we'll be stepping over each other's toes (and other
body parts). Which is what I'm fearing this discussion is heading :(
And I don't like it any more than you do.
> > I agree with you, that no matter what comes out of this, it is still
> > the advocate's call to work out the right mix. Let's just drop the
> > harsh statements and get on with loving FOSS :)
>
> I agree. I do not mean to be harsh. If it seems that way, then I am
> wrong, my apologies.
Again, you are forgiven. :D I hope this is the last post; let bygones
be bygones...
Cheers,
noxlist
Also am not angry, LOL. Neither am I attacking you personally.
To put some things into context and to understand where am coming
from, blame it on FOSS love that started way back when the way to
have one on your machine was still in floppy disk format :D. Yes,
advocating/using/implementing it silently in the trenches of non-tech
users (from government institutions, NGO's, commercial sector, and as
some of the folks here in the list might know, the academe). Its
quite a different scenario than advocating it in conferences where
the audiences are more or less interested in FOSS in the first place.
I think we could ask Dexter (of Philrice fame) who I think is using
FOSS components to educate farmers. Feedback from the likes of him
might help put things into a certain perspective.
But I do understand where you are coming from, I do, really.
Yes Tito handled it excellently. From his post about the event, we
could clearly see why he rocked. :P
Yes, let bygones be bygones. This would also probably be the last
time I would emphasize this simplicity vs complexity approach. You
are right, let us not bear grudges, neither list down/itemize
(complete with URL) previous posts ;-)
Hoping to see you again on the next linux world (tayo lang ba yung
bicolano doon?). Hopefully will have a rocking discussion why you
love emacs so much, while I on the other hand think Vi's spartan
simplicity is seductively sexy (Hope this doesn't spark another
Complexity vs Simplicity discussion hehehe). Am probably near the MS
booth, checking the enticing guards at the enemy gate ;) /joke
chairs!
nox
noxlist
Tito Mari Francis Escaño
> Somebody correct my assumptions, isn't BiOS aim to promote FOSS in the
> region and that majority of the target audience are non-techies? The
> question still remains, how do we implement this project effectively and
> realistically (end to end)?
usage of FOSS in the Bicol region regardless of whether the target
audience is a techie geek or a wet-eared newbie to evetually empower
us all individually or collectively.
> Sabi nga ni pareng Dwight: "In preparing for battle I have always found that
> plans are useless, but planning is indispensable."
Read Sun Tzu's "Art of War":
Before doing battle, in the temple one calculates and will win,
because many calculations were made; before doing battle, in the
temple one calculates and will not win, because few calculations were
made; ? many calculations, victory, few calculations, no victory, then
how much less so when no calculations?
http://www.sonshi.com/learn.html
Zak B. Elep
On 4/27/06, noxlist <nox...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think we could ask Dexter (of Philrice fame) who I think is using
> FOSS components to educate farmers. Feedback from the likes of him
> might help put things into a certain perspective.
Yep. I reckon he was in Bicol earlier; was anyone here on this list
able to meet him? =)
> Hoping to see you again on the next linux world (tayo lang ba yung
> bicolano doon?). Hopefully will have a rocking discussion why you
> love emacs so much, while I on the other hand think Vi's spartan
> simplicity is seductively sexy (Hope this doesn't spark another
> Complexity vs Simplicity discussion hehehe). Am probably near the MS
> booth, checking the enticing guards at the enemy gate ;) /joke
Hmmm! Indeed! =)
Yeah, I'll probably be on the next LW soon :). As for the Emacs bit, I
am actually getting to love Vi too with its simplicity and console
goodness. =D
Yeah, I think MS-booth-checking-out would be a more leisurely approach
to solving the problems of FOSS :))
Cheers!
Zak B. Elep
On 4/27/06, Tito Mari Francis Escaño <titomar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> BiOS I believe aims to promote and advocate the acceptance and wider
> usage of FOSS in the Bicol region regardless of whether the target
> audience is a techie geek or a wet-eared newbie to evetually empower
> us all individually or collectively.
Interestingly, Mark just posted something about this:
http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/28
noxlist
noxlist
On 04 27, 06, at 10:28 AM, Tito Mari Francis Escaño wrote:
>
> On 4/27/06, noxlist <nox...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Somebody correct my assumptions, isn't BiOS aim to promote FOSS in
>> the
>> region and that majority of the target audience are non-techies? The
>> question still remains, how do we implement this project
>> effectively and
>> realistically (end to end)?
> BiOS I believe aims to promote and advocate the acceptance and wider
> usage of FOSS in the Bicol region regardless of whether the target
> audience is a techie geek or a wet-eared newbie to evetually empower
> us all individually or collectively.
>
Copy on this. Agree, with emphasis on the "wider" usage of FOSS in
the region.
>> Sabi nga ni pareng Dwight: "In preparing for battle I have always
>> found that
>> plans are useless, but planning is indispensable."
> Read Sun Tzu's "Art of War":
> Before doing battle, in the temple one calculates and will win,
> because many calculations were made; before doing battle, in the
> temple one calculates and will not win, because few calculations were
> made; ? many calculations, victory, few calculations, no victory, then
> how much less so when no calculations?
> http://www.sonshi.com/learn.html
>
Di lang pala ako fan dito ni Sun Tzu. :D. To those interested on his
book, a wide selection of ebook formats of the book can be found here
http://manybooks.net/titles/tzusunetext94sunzu10.html.
chairs!
nox