Queckboard

[James Masters]

A 1477 old English Statute references (well bans, of course) Queckboard during the reign of King Edward IV.  It's a mystery game and I've been able to find hardly anything about it.  There may be a Dutch link as Jonas thinks it likely that English borrowed the word from Dutch, and the meaning might be based on queken = to shake, to rattle.

It could be a board game but, since it was annoying the authorities, it's more likely to be a gambling game or some kind of dexterity pub game.

So if anyone, and particularly any Dutch researcher, can shed any light on quaecbert / quecbord / quekebord or any other similar spelling, I would be extremely interested.

thanks,

James.

[Adrian Seville]

Apparently another name for shovelboard etc - see attached dictionary entries.

 

Adrian
 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "bgs4ever" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to unsub...@googlegroups.com">bgs4ever+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bgs4ever/3f23c599-5ae9-45e4-bb1a-c6aebc69382cn%40googlegroups.com.
 

[Richter, Jonas]

The queckboard = shovelboard equation is pure speculation that arose in the 17th century (after the word "queckboard" had become obsolete and was no longer understood) and was quickly assumed to be fact. It's a factoid carried on in dictionary tradition. (This is actually a side note that James & I will mention in our shovelboard talk in Chemnitz. *end of commercial*) ;-)

Based on dictionaries of Middle Dutch, the OED suggests it's a name for a trictrac/backgammon game(-board). As far as I can tell, the Middle Dutch references unfortunately are rather vague. Like James, I'd be interested to learn more. Maybe there are old Dutch sources with an illustration, or a text that describes the game in more detail, or glossaries that point to an equivalent in Latin?

Jonas

---

Von: 'Adrian Seville' via bgs4ever <bgs4...@googlegroups.com>
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. April 2025 23:36
An: bgs4...@googlegroups.com; ja...@masters.me.uk
Betreff: Re: Queckboard

 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bgs4ever+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bgs4ever/7d99b0f4.f35f.195f86f183d.Webtop.119%40btinternet.com.

[Thierry Depaulis]

Hello.

According to the OED, 

quek-board  n.  [after Middle Dutch quaecbort (Dutch kweekbord, kwaakbord, now historical); compare Middle Low German quēkebret, quēkbret]

and according to the Middle English Dictionary,

it is a kind of "board game; the board on which it was played".

It is obviously one of the Dutch (or Flemish) games that reached Scotland and England in the 13th-14th century (with kolf > golf, and clos, clossen > closh, both physical games).

Quaecbort can be related to French dringuet/trinquet and "le point de l'eschiquier", also perhaps to Brentenspiel, all being gambling games using a chessboard and a die or a pair of dice thrown onto the chessboard through a funnel. Not only the point of the die or dice is taken into account but the colour (black or white) of the chessboard square determine a win or a loss (of money…).

So nothing to do with backgammon.

The Middle English Dictionary offers a detailed quotation that would confirm this interpretation:

(1376) Doc.in Riley Mem.Lond. 395: [They wished to gain some money at tables, or at chequers, commonly called] quek..[They found..a pair of tables, on the outside of which was painted a chequer-board, that is called a] quek..[The complainants played with the defendant, Nicholas, at] quek [until they had lost, at the games of tables and] quek [39 s. 2 d.].

Other occurrences are dated 1382, 1448, c.1450, c.1460, 1477…

For Brussels, Alexandre Henne, Histoire de la ville de Bruxelles, Bruxelles, 1845, II, p. 496, wrote:

En 1413, le 29 décembre, le quaecbert ou jeu d'échecs à Bruxelles fut affermé 32 florins de Hollande.

In 1413, on 29 December, the quaecbert (game) or "chess" in Brussels was farmed out for 32 Dutch gilders.

(also) …la maison au jeu d'échecs (queecbert) était tenue par le bourreau. Elle fut fermée par résolution du 28 mai 1568 (Idem, II, p. 593)

See also the QUAECBERT (long) entry in the Middelnederlandsch Woordenboek (online)

https://gtb.ivdnt.org/iWDB/search?actie=article&wdb=MNW&id=44589&lemma=quaecbert&domein=0&conc=true

Click on all bent arrows on the left to see what they have to offer.

In French, "point de l'eschiquier" is mentioned from 1288 to 1474, and dringuet, trinquet, tringlet, triquet appears from 1379 to 1508.

An Italian game called *bianco e negro" (blancum et nigrum, nigrum et album, blancam et vermiliam), recorded in the 13th-14th century, may be the same game.

Also see Spanish jaldeta.

It seems to have been a highly popular gambling game, sort of predecessor of (later) "table lotteries", like auca (Catalonia) and hoca (France), biribissi (Italy), Royal Oak (England), etc. all 17th-18th-century gambling games.

Trade fairs were obvious places for this game (which seems to have used a large chessboard).

See also this old thread "Presentation and a Brentaspiel question":

https://groups.google.com/g/bgs4ever/c/AmYvj3S6V8c

Cheers.

Thierry

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bgs4ever/7f6b9c5e875740299107cb1fb934dcb7%40adwgoe.de.

[Arie van der Stoep]

The English versions of the medieval Dutch word quic, today kwik, is
quick. See for a description of the game John Ashton, The history of
gambling in England. London 1898:14-5. A player threw 2 or 3 dice on a
chessboard after having said if the dice would land on the dark or on
the white squares.

The Dutch and Flemish medieval cities had great problems with the many
quarrels with or without knife around queck or other dice games, such
as chess with dice, played by the dregs of society, very often drunken
by too much beer. It often concerned desperate poor people who tried
to gain some money. For this reason the cities set up “clubs” where
the games could be played under surveillance. Source: the medieval
bylaws.

Greeting from The Netherlands, Arie

Op do 3 apr 2025 om 09:21 schreef Thierry Depaulis <thierry....@gmail.com>:

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to unsub...@googlegroups.com">bgs4ever+u...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bgs4ever/3f23c599-5ae9-45e4-bb1a-c6aebc69382cn%40googlegroups.com.

>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "bgs4ever" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bgs4ever+u...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bgs4ever/7d99b0f4.f35f.195f86f183d.Webtop.119%40btinternet.com.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "bgs4ever" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bgs4ever+u...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bgs4ever/7f6b9c5e875740299107cb1fb934dcb7%40adwgoe.de.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "bgs4ever" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bgs4ever+u...@googlegroups.com.

> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bgs4ever/5748306A-72B7-420F-9070-51CB2005476A%40gmail.com.

[James Masters]

Thanks for the answers, Arie and Thierry and the really useful detail from Thierry!   The sources seem to be convincingly early which settles it sufficiently for me, thank you.

[Wim van Mourik]

Arie van der Stoep, assisted by Jan de Ruiter and me, is preparing a new book (in Dutch). Chapter 5 is about quek, including the position of the game in England and France with all information Thierry mentioned. Chapter 8 deals about dice chess, with the texts of this game in the bylaws. From chapter 9 onwards a discussion about the consequences for our view on medieval chess.

 

 

Wim van Mourik

 

The books concerns a sociologic study of draughts, chess, morris and backgammon in the Netherlands and Flanders

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bgs4ever/403d9214-5e64-4ea3-b93d-2a7e80e3c43an%40googlegroups.com.