Ban on smoking - Agresivnite podxodi leko pritesnitelni ???
Gergana
az ofizialno sam nepuchach v poslednite 7 godini i privetstvam
iniziativi protiv tutunopusheneto.
Samo se chudya koga nyakoa nova ambiziozna strategiya na Dubaiskoto
pravitelstvo ste mi naloji chasovete za lyagane i stavan, xranene i
vsichki drugi prostichki lichni nujdi...........................kade
ostana pravoto na izbor???
Zapochvam da si mislya che nyakoi den i az ste polucha NOV
STRATEGICHESKI PLAN do kraya na 2009............ili pak e samoo kraya
na sedmizata i mi e doshlo mnogo ot strategiite???????
As the World No-Tobacco Day is observed today, Dubai has decided to
ban smoking in government buildings, schools and colleges, the first
step in a plan to stub out smoking across the emirate by the end of
2009. The ban comes into effect today, May 31.
"May 31 will be the launch of gradual steps to regulate smoking in
public areas," Zohoor Al Sabbagh, head of the Clinic and Community
Health Section at Dubai Municipality (DM), said.
"We will start with government offices and educational
establishments ... there will be a gradual ban on smoking in public
areas," she said. From September 15, smoking will be prohibited in the
hallways, food courts, children's play areas and emergency exits of
Dubai's sprawling shopping malls, Sabbagh said.
Later on, restaurants and cafes will be required to set aside a
special section for smokers, comprising no more than 25 per cent of
their seating area.
Starting next year, the DM will impose fines on people caught smoking
in non-smoking areas, hoping to stub out the habit in all public
places by the end of 2009, she said.
Cutting down on smoking is one of the aims of the Dubai government's
strategic plan and a local order was issued to regulate smoking in
2003, said Sabbagh, but the campaign is being launched to coincide
with World No Tobacco Day.
The rules will mean only those over 20 will be allowed to smoke or
enter designated smoking zones, to discourage young people from
picking up the habit. "Tomorrow will be the first step," said
Sabbagh.
Meanwhile, health professionals, educators and concerned citizens
across the UAE will mark the World No Tobacco Day today with a variety
of events designed to draw the attention of people towards the perils
of smoking.
A special event will be held at the Al Bustan Rotana Hotel in Dubai
today. A number of community activities are being organised on the
occasion. Minister of Health Humaid Mohammed Obaid Al Qutami will
attend the event, which is being supported by a number of major
companies, including Pfizer.
Pfizer will also unveil the winning designs of a series of posters and
letters on the occasion to encourage people to quit smoking. - With
inputs from agencies
Lek den na vsichki nepushachi
SYLVIA NIKOLOVA
Zdravejte
privetstvam reshenieto za ogranichavane na tutunopusheneto! triabva da se vzemat merki opredeleno, da se nalojat sushtite ogranichenia kato v evropa.
ne e normalno da si vurvish (ako si nepushach, ili otkazvasht cigarite naprimer....) v mall-a i naokolo da ti dimiat! opredeleno triabva da se vzemat seriozni merki.
Sylvia
AUH
From: Gergana <Barc...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: bes...@googlegroups.com
To: beseda <bes...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [beseda2:5078] Ban on smoking - Agresivnite podxodi leko pritesnitelni ???
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 22:39:10 -0700
dimitrina dineva
:-(
>From: "SYLVIA NIKOLOVA" <sylvi...@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: bes...@googlegroups.com
>To: bes...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: [beseda2:5079] Re: Ban on smoking - Agresivnite podxodi leko
>pritesnitelni ???
>Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 05:49:22 +0000
>
>
>
>
>Zdravejte
>
>privetstvam reshenieto za ogranichavane na tutunopusheneto! triabva da se
>vzemat merki opredeleno, da se nalojat sushtite ogranichenia kato v evropa.
>
>ne e normalno da si vurvish (ako si nepushach, ili otkazvasht cigarite
>naprimer....) v mall-a i naokolo da ti dimiat! opredeleno triabva da se
>vzemat seriozni merki.
>
>Sylvia
>
>AUH
>
>
>
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
LittleMato
tezi merki... no koi li shte me chue.
Osobeno towa s 25% ot mestata w krachmite da sa za pushachi... mi te
shte si zagubqt biznesa be... ne che sam se zapritesnqwal, che na
nqkoi ot barowcite shte mu iztanee djoba, ama towa si e jiwa diwotia.
Uwi, nawsqkade po sweta stawa sashtoto... taka che zatqgaite si
kolanite.
W kakwi wremena jiweem...
SYLVIA NIKOLOVA
otnovo se namesvam v razgovora... kato chovek otkazal cigarite ot opredeleno vreme, iskam da spodelia che tova e edin ot naj loshite navici!
ne stiga che niama vuzduh navun, zashto da si trovim jivota dopulnitelno? a i ne e priatno, za nepushachi, da chuvstvat cigarenia dim naokolo. ne samo na opdeleni mesta, a na vsiakude triabva da se zabraniat cigarite. e, v amsterdam naprimer edva li shte vuvedat podobni merki, ta koito ne mu haresva... da otiva tam :)
lek den
Sylvia
AUH
From: LittleMato <dva...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: bes...@googlegroups.com
To: beseda <bes...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [beseda2:5084] Re: Ban on smoking - Agresivnite podxodi leko pritesnitelni ???
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 13:44:18 -0000
Gergana
golyama rabota da pushish. Da ne govorim pak ako ot nyakade se nameri
vnosna zigara.....beshe si golyamo fukane - prestij ! ;-0))))))
Vsastnost na men ne mi napravi tolkova vpechatlenie inziativata pritiv
tutunopusheneto, a nachina po koito se nalaga - STRATEGIYA!
Nyakak si zaposnaxa da mi stavat mnogo direktivite v posledno vreme -
zaprilichva na partiinoto vreme - planove, programi, srokove za
izpalneniya i tn.
Leka vecher nepushachi!
Plamen
Goliama novina, niama shto!
Sigurno e za da parira nedovolstvoto ot platenite patishta! Ima takava
'strategia' :-) Ili moje bi se grijat naistina za horata - taka i taka
plashtash da dishash v tozi grad - spirash cigarite i imash pari za
'freeway' toll. Kakva ironia...
Az inache sam protiv pushene v prisastvieto na hora nepushachi!
Kolko e hubavo che tuk ne se pie alkohol navsiakade! Predstavete si
molovete, parkovete i ulicite palni s pianici s shisheta v raka
(tochno taka e v niakoi 'svobodni' strani!). E, az s udovolstvie bih
izpil edna bira na terasata v Creek Side Park, no go pravia v kashti
ili v licenziranite restoranti. Taka che pushachite da ne se vaikat
mnogo - niama koi da gi sajali! Obshtestvoto iziskva individa da se
ogranichi v svobodata si! Nikoi ne im zabraniava da pushat! Samo se
kazva kade niama da mogat. Tova mejdu vprochem vaji i za drugi
'fundamentalni' individualni nujdi!:-)))
LittleMato
- iska mi se da widq towa ;)
Ogranichawaneto na pieneto tuk i w nqkoi drugi strani dowejda do
golqmo uwelichenie na konsumaciata na alkohol, towa e sigurno. Predi
wreme chetoh edna statistika, spored koqto na parwo mqsto w sweta po
konsumacia na Johny Walker black label e... Saudi arabia ;))) Zashto
li hich ne sam uchuden?
Tuk w Dubai sam sreshtal mnogo hora, s pari, ot razlichni
nacionalnosti. Wsichki mi spodeliha, che nikoga prez jiwota si ne sa
pili tolkowa mnogo i olkowa chesto, kolkoto tuk, i che wseki ot tqh
ima takaw rezerw ot piene w kashti, che moje da izkara 3-4 meseca
nonstop piene bez da zarejda... (pod sekret - i az sam taka, sawsem
oficialno pri towa - imam si "alcoholic license" ili razreshitelno za
alkoholic ;))))
Btw. "nezakonnata" targowia s alkohol procaftqwa i tuk, i w Saudi, i w
Kuweit - wse "suhi darjawi". Stotici, da ne kaja hiqldi hora
prejiwqwat ot komisionnite pri nelegalna prodajba na alkohol. Sled
polunosht wsqka wecher (towa e kam Plamen) mojesh da izlezesh na
ulicata i da se nagledash na stotici sawsem legalni pianici
(peshehodci, patnici i shofiori - bezbroi shofiori, koityo policiata
nqma i namerenie da zakacha, nali shte im presahne posle krancheto), a
newednaj w taxitata sam podritwal prazni bireni kutiiki ili butilki ot
alkohol... Zabelqzal sam i slednata zakonomernost - kolkoto e po-skapa
kolata, tolkowa e po-pian shofiora. I w powecheto sluchai pafka kato
komin ;) Doskoro se chudeh zashto wijdam Land Roveri za po 1/2 milion
dhs. s nailoni po sedalkite, no sega razbiram - za da ne si ocapat s
balwoch tapiceriite...
Kakto wijdame, za poreden pat zabranite podtikwat horata da gi
narushawat, i to s jelanie. Moje bi s tezi "zdrawoslowni" i
"demokratichni" zabrani skoro swetat shte se prewarne w edin golqm
klub na pushacha, i skoro nepushachite shte badat zakleimeni... Shte
trqbwa pak da propushwame, kakwo da se prawi... To i nawremeto, kato
uchenik, az propushih imenno ot gazaria i poradi fakta, che ni beshe
zabraneno, sashtoto beshe i s pieneto ;)
Taka che ne se radwaite mnogo. Deto kazwashe edin poznat: "Sho si e
popowo, ono si e gotowo". I ne sadete drugite mnogo strogo...
LittleMato
Pusheneto e edin mnogo hubaw nawik, towa shte ti go kaje wseki
pushach. ;)
Wazduhat w Dubai e dalech po-wreden za teb ot izpushwaneto na edna ili
deset cigari, w towa mojesh da badesh sigurna. Deto se kazwa - oshte
edin piron w kowchega, taka i taka sme patnici...
Zashto nikoi ne tragne da agitira za zabranqwane na KFC ili McDonalds?
Znaete li kolko hora po sweta umirat ot zatlastqwane wledstie na
lainata, koito im serwirat tam? I ne samo towa, ami i newrastnite si
deca wodqt tam, che i rojdenite im dni tam organizirat...
Ami Coca-Colata? Otrowa (100 pati po-wredna ot winoto naprimer), koqto
sawsem legalno se prodawa waw wseki supermarket i na wseki agal... i
pak q tikame na decata... Sram i pozor!
Predlagam da badem po-tolerantni - wseki si ima malki udowolstwia w
jiwota, neka ne si gi otnemame prejdewremenno...
SYLVIA NIKOLOVA
az jiveia v abu dhabi, tuk vuzduha e po zdravosloven :)
From: LittleMato <dva...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: bes...@googlegroups.com
To: beseda <bes...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [beseda2:5094] Re: Ban on smoking - Agresivnite podxodi leko pritesnitelni ???
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 08:58:39 -0000
LittleMato
Wij tam, nameri nqkakwa gotina rabota i nie da se spasim ot tukashnia
smog... ;) Da stanem i nie stolichani ;))))))))
On Jun 3, 4:43 pm, "SYLVIA NIKOLOVA" <sylvia_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> az jiveia v abu dhabi, tuk vuzduha e po zdravosloven :)
>
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ralidi...@yahoo.com
dobrite neshto koito maika mi i bashta mi sa me nauchili, da ne pusha.
Mislia che dubai ima pravo na chist vuzduh! Vchera samo da vi dam edin
primer, niakakva madama ot Afrikanska strana stoeshe do men na
bankomata pred lifco supermarket i pusheshe cigarata si tochno do men,
tolkova me pritesni che i otstupih reda si, izchakah ia da se iznese
barabar sus oblacheto ot dim okolo neia i togava se vurnah kum
rabotata si. Ujasen navik, neveroiatno mnogo problemi se porazdat ot
pusheneto, mislia che e proava na slab harakter i neuvajenie sushto
Za pieneto i drogata suhtoto, taka che privetstvam nepusheneto,
nepieneto i drugi neshta s otvoreni obiatia. Plamen mnogo me nakefi
izraza za pianicite po molovete, suglasna sum s teb
Rali
Gergana
Saglasyavam se vednaga sas vsichki strategii i srokovete im za
izpalnenie!
LittleMato
Wie ne pushite, ne piete, sega ostawa da kajete i che ne qdete i
naprawo ste jiwi za ojalwane bre ;)
ralidimitr...@yahoo.com написа:
SYLVIA NIKOLOVA
pusheneto i iadeneto sa s protivopolojen efekt....
From: LittleMato <dva...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: bes...@googlegroups.com
To: beseda <bes...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [beseda2:5134] Re: Ban on smoking - Agresivnite podxodi leko pritesnitelni ???
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 06:34:30 -0000
>
>Hora ;)
>
>Wie ne pushite, ne piete, sega ostawa da kajete i che ne qdete i
>naprawo ste jiwi za ojalwane bre ;)
>
>
>ralidimitr...@yahoo.com íŕďčńŕ:
LittleMato
cigari:
- sutrishna cigara s kafe ;)
- cigara nasred qdene (po star armenski obichai)
- cigara sled qdene (ne znam towa tochno kakaw obichai e, no sashto e
"star") ;) imashe daje nqkakaw laf: "posle dobrawa kushenia nada
prikurit nemedlenna" ;)))
- cigara (ili pura) sled deserta, s chasha cognac ;) kolkoto po-star,
tolkowa po-dobre ;)
Na tezi cigari az im wikam dobrite cigari ;) Te ne sa poweche ot 5-6
na den ;)
Wij ako darpate po 3 kutii i to ot nerwi, bez da im se naslajdawate,
towa weche e wreden nawik!
On Jun 10, 11:26 am, "SYLVIA NIKOLOVA" <sylvia_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> pusheneto i iadeneto sa s protivopolojen efekt....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: LittleMato <dva...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: bes...@googlegroups.com
> To: beseda <bes...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: [beseda2:5134] Re: Ban on smoking - Agresivnite podxodi leko pritesnitelni ???
> Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 06:34:30 -0000
> >
> >Hora ;)
> >
> >Wie ne pushite, ne piete, sega ostawa da kajete i che ne qdete i
> >naprawo ste jiwi za ojalwane bre ;)
> >
> >
Gergana
pushach - ne gi priemam tezi opravdaniya i izvineniya za porednata
zigara.
Ili si pushach - ili ne si!
Polovin pushach ili polovin ne-pushach ne sa seriozni pozizii.
p.s.: obache ako taino nyakoi ne-pushach izpushi nyakoya skrita zigara
bez mnogo xora da go vidyat nyakolko pati v godinata, ne se
broi ;-0)))))....si se broi ne-pushach!
Az ne che pravya taka, samo izrazyavam mnenie (uslovno) ;-)))).
> > > > Rali- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
LittleMato
Az ne se kriq, no naistina pusna mnogo rqdko, i to samo "na masa" - ne
poweche ot 1 cigara na mesec.
Predi 1998 pusheh po 2-3 kutii na den w prdaljenie na 12-13 godini.
Posle sprqh totalno da pusha za okolo 6 godini, no otkakto samw Dubai
- wij po-gore za masata ;)
Wij pura obicham da pusha, no hubawite puri sa dosta skapi, a i ne
moje da se pushi nawsqkade - neshto, koeto e napalno razbiraemo,
razbira se, kato se ima predwid mirizmata ;)
Lulata e kompromisen wariant, zashtoto dori i nepushachite sa po-
tolerantni kam armoatnia dim na lulata... Tam problemat e, che
aromatnite tiutiuni ne sa "wkusni" i obratno - edin angliiiski smesen
tiutiun (oriental blend naprimer) e s neweroiqtni wkusowi kachestwa,
no ne mirishe "taka dobre"...
Kakto i da e.
Az sam na principa - koito iska da pushi, koito iska - da pie, koito
iska - da bade vegetarianec - wapros na izbor. Mrazq wsichki zabrani,
i mrazq hora, koito iskat da nakarat drugite da se rawnqwat po tehnite
samnitelni "cennosti", i towa waw wsqka oblast - hrani, napitki,
nachin na jiwot, politika, izkustwo...
Za sajalenie taka ochakwanata demokracia mai se okaza ne mnogo po-
razlichna ot "nauchniq komunizam". Razlikata e, che neshtata se
promenqt po-bawno, zabranite i ogranicheniata idwat edno po edno,
nqkak si neusetno, i ne ti gi nabiwat s toiaga... ami prosto te
globqwat - leko, tejko, po-tejko etc. Krainiqt rezultat obache e edin
i sasht - trqbwa da warwish po kolowozite i wseki inakomislesht se
nakazwa... Kolko tajno.
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
LittleMato
spodelq neshto:
Dnes po BBC gledah (po nowinite) za nai-golemia gay parad w sweta - w
Sau Paulo, Brazilia. Golqma paplach se bqha nasabrali, ei bogu,
potresawashto neshto. Stotici hilqdi pedali, travestiti i cie
demonstriraha "oswobodeni nrawi" s kamshici, wibratori i drugi
aksesoari... Grozna gledka.
Kak da ne se seti chowek s umilenie za takiwa swetli lichnosti kato El
General Pinochet...
Misalta mi e - sprqmo takiwa prirodni bedstwia pusheneto e neshto
twarde newinno ;) Wie kakwo mislite po waprosa, uwajaemi sabesednici?
ani vladi
protivirechashti si:):):)
edin komentar - dokato edin pushach avtomatichno me prevrushta i men v
PASIVEN PUSHACH i mi trovi drobovete, ubivaiki me po-burzo ot kolkoto na
men bi mi se iskalo - edin trans-, homo-, etc s nishto ne zastrashava
lichnata mi svoboda, zdrave i jivot.
koe "zlo" li e "po-nevinno"????
pozdravi
LittleMato
Az ne smqtam, che pushacha paradira s pusheneto si ;) I pusheneto wse
oshte ne e stanalo tabu, dokolkoto mi e izwestno. Sexat obache wse
oshte e tabu, pochti nawsqkade po sweta. Obshtestwoto e wazprielo
nqkoi moralni normi, powecheto prodiktuwani ot religiozni zadrajki.
Heterosexualnite ne prawqt paradi - nali ne sme izlezli polugoli i
nadarweni na ulicata da marshiruwame? Ne prawish sex na publichno
mqsto, pokazno, pred wsichki?
Zabeleji, az nqmam nishto protiw obratnite no samo DOKATO te ne
zapochnat da mi se natrapwat. Naricham gi obratni tai kato smqtam, che
tqhnoto powedenie protiworechi na osnownia princip na Prirodata -
prodaljawaneto na roda.
Homosexualistite nai-nahalno organizirat podobni paradi, sabirat se na
ogromni sborishta i marshiruwat, kato po-tozi nachin se natrapwat na
okolnite - wazrastni i zabeleji, deca. Az lichno ne bih se radwal, ako
deteto mi popadne na ulicata sred podobna sgan - ti kakwo mislish po
waprosa?
Opitwat se da zabranqt pusheneto w barowete - kadeto naprimer nqma
deca, i ne bi trqbwalo da lima, nali? Ako na teb ne ti hareswa w tozi
bar - idi w bar za nepushachi, ako mojesh da namerish podoben. Ako ne
mojesh - organiziraite se, nepushachite, i si naprawete takiwa! Towa,
koeto me drazni e, che edna chast ot obshtestwoto nalaga na drugata
chast sobstwenite si stereotipi i nachin na powedenie.
Kakto ima vegetarianski restoranti, neka ima i barowe, restoranti etc.
za nepushachi - mnogo e prosto. Taka wseki shte e dowolen.
Nqmam protiw ogranichawane na pusheneto, imenno zaradi takiwa kato
teb, koito sa w palno prawo da protestirat, kogato nqkoi im kadi pod
nosa. No da nalagat totalni zabrani - eto towa e twarde
nedemokratichno. A pokrai tutunopusheneto moje i dosta drugi neshta da
ni zabranqt - kakto naprimer w powecheto darjawi po sweta e zabraneno
da se kritikuwa "Holokosta". Kakwo e sledwashtoto, koeto shte ni
zabranqt? Eto tozi wapros si zadawam az!!!
ani vladi
edin 7days i da zapochnesh rubrika na tazi tema, shte se iznenadash ot
grubostta i neuvajenieto, koeto povecheto ot pushachite demonstrirat na
stranizite na tozi vestnik.
Az ne sum vzela mnenie nito po vuprosa za parada, nito po otnoshenie na
barove za nepushachi.
Mislya, che v interes na "demokraziyata" tryabva da ima mesta, kadeto edin
nepushach da moje da otide i naistina da se nasladi na priyatna vecher. Ne
ochakvam diskotekite da sa takiva - neka sme realisti.
Az skoro shte si tursya sukvartirant, i ako tryabva da izbiram, dali da imam
v kushtata si gay ili pushach - 100% shte si izbera ne-pushacha:)
prosto moe mnenie
ani
ps: a ti si protivorechish, zashtoto tvurdish, che xorata ne bi tryabvalo da
se prinujdavat da se integrirat v edna sistema i vseki ima pravo da e
"razlichen", a ne "da robuva na nechii sumnitelni zennosti" (zitiram te);
sled koeto se izkazvash sreshtu sushtata tazi svoboda.
ne moje edni da imat pravo da sa po-svobodni ot drugite, nali?
LittleMato
I taka e i shte bade dokato ima Homo Sapiens ;) Mislish li, che Van
Gogh bi izlqzal na ulicata da si wiri kartinite i da wika kolko e
welik? Ili Bach da izleze na pohoden klawesin da swiri po ulicite?
Oswen towa, w powecheto sluchai, razlichnite winagi gledat da stoqt
nastrana ot ostanalite, dori se samoizolirat. Nqma da komentiram
prichinite, no towa e fakt.
Intelektualeca tarsi srodna dusha, pederastat - sashto. Edni iskat da
obmenqt idei, da komunikirat, drugi - da si burkat po dupkite. Let it
be.
Kogato obache tragnesh da agitirash drugite, da paradirash, da
obsebwash, togawa se rajdat qwlenia kato Nacional Socializma w
Germania, psewdo-komunizma w Rusia. Gei paradite ne mogat da badat
srawnqwani s tezi kataklizmi, no koi znae, moje edin den i te da
prerastnat w neshto podobno, koeto da dowede do izchezwane na
choweshkata rasa... ili wsichki da zaprilichat na owcata Dolly.
Homoseksualizma e shiroko reklamiran ot Hollywood, kakto naprimer i
razturenite brakowe. W pochti wseki, da ne kaja waw wseki amerikanski
film glawnata geroinq e razwedena maika s dete, koqto nakraq
shtastliwo se sabira s nqkoi, razweden kato neq ili ne. Ili prosto e
zarqzana, kogato e bila bremenna. Naposledak wse po-chesto ni puskat
filmi na homoseksualna tema. Naprimer "brokeback mountain". Ima i
stotici drugi. Horata, poneje sa s promiti mozaci i ne si zadawat
mnogo waprosi, priemat, che razwodat (ili naprimer homoseksualizma,
ili towa da zarejesh bremenna jena) e neshto sawsem normalno, che
zdrawo semeistwo se gradi trudno i ne si struwa usiliata...nali taka
kazwat onezi ot holywood, te znaqt po-dobre (a onezi , koito dwijat
holywood kato po edno malko sawpadenie, wsichki sa ewrei, a golqma
chast ot tqh - obratni)! I poke-polek neshtata tragwat nadolu po
naklonenata ploskost.
Neka prawitelstwata, koito iskat da ogranichat pusheneto, da
nasarchawat otwarqne na restoranti i barowe za nepushachi! Neka im
otpuskat dotacii ako iskat - ako ne im warwi biznesa - tqhna rabota.
No haide neka da ne se opitwat da ni karat nasila da prawim towa ili
onowa. Utre shte obqwwqt, che wseki, koito ne e obraten, e izwan
zakona. I horata pak, pod stroi, shte koziruwat...
Quo vadis, Domine?
LittleMato
nai-golemite tworci, bili nai-dobri w towa ili onowa... Da se chuci
chowek kak waobshte sme stignali dotuk bez tqh...
Utre shte se okaje, pak s pomoshtta na Holywood, che Leonardo, Iisus
ili Stalin, ili Churchill, ili Napoleon - i te bili pedali ...
komediata shte bade palna. Dano ne sme malcina da i se nasladim...
LittleMato
in Switzerland.
Razlikata e neweroiatna, towa e cigarata, koqto e w sastoqnie da me
nakara pak da propusha ;)))
Tuk w Dubai prodawat razni bokluci, no na letishteto ima ot prawilnite
proizwoditeli ;) Sashto i na powecheto freeshop-owe iz Ewropa, Tircua
etc.
Kato student pusheh samo takowa, beshe bojestweno! ;)
On Jun 11, 1:16 pm, Silvia <silvia_rad...@abv.bg> wrote:
> Bravo Little Mato!!!!!!!!!!....Nai-nakraia malko po-pozitiven
> comentar za cigarkite! Az sam "chisto nova pushachka", t..e teparva
> propushvam, no veche moga da spodelia kak kutiika "cherveno boro" na
> den mi deistva kato prekrasen otdushnik, osobeno kogato chovek e
> pretrupan s angajimenti i se nalaga poniakoga da exploatira mozakat si
> 24h non-stop....
>
> On Jun 10, 12:16 pm, LittleMato <dva...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
Gergana
stava malko po-spokoinichko.
V long term obache nikotina se natrupva v sistemata i zapochva da
natejava na osnovni funkzii - dishane, xodene, tichane i tn.
Tryabva da se znayat vsichki plusove i minusi.
ani vladi
dolunapisanoto, neka da poyasnim - ti ZA svobodata na lichnostta li si ili
PROTIV??? Tuk sredno mnenie nyama.
Kakvo pravi edin chovek (ili dvama, ili grupa) si e lichno tyaxna rabota, ta
ako shte i nasred ploshtad Batenberg da sa se subrali da se zabavlyavat!!!
Shte go priema samo kato lipsa na vkus i dobro vuzpitanie, nishto poveche!
Do momenta, v koito, volno ili nevolno sa nastupili v lichnoto mi
prostranstvo i sa se opitali da mi nalojat texniya nachin na jivot!
Shtom tova gi pravi shatstlivi - az daje bix gi privetstvala - OTDALECH,
razbira se.
Neka da sme obektivni i spravedlivi.
OK:):):)
Vurni se malko nazad v Istoriyata (ili poveche) i procheti za nai-kulturnoto
obshtestvo na Drevnostta - Elinite.
Vij te kak sa gledali na vuprosa.
(vsushtnost vsyaka edna Kultira gi ima prisustvashti, daje s risk da
shokiram, moga da prepratya izvadki ot Bibliyata, koito zvuchat "mnogo
interesno")
Ne me razbiraite pogreshno - ne pravya reklama na tezi xora, nito puk bix
bila dovolna dezata mi da sa edni ot tyax, no ne iskam i da gi sudya -
intimniyat im nachin na jivot si lichno tyaxna rabota i dokato ne sa doshli
men da me pritesnyavat - az nymam nikakuv problem s tyax.
(napravili sa si parad - ami dobre - ubili li sa nyakogo, obidili, izkazali
li sa nyakoga mnenie sreshtu t.nar. "hetero"???, doshul li e nyakoi nyakoga
da se opitva da ti lobira da se prisuednish kum tyax, Dimo?:)
Naprotiv - imam dobri poznati, s koito s udovolstvie se sreshtam i
zadulbavam v razgovori, koito 90% ot xorata, koito poznavam bixa narekli
"glupavi", samo zashtoto temata ne e "pari", "biznes", "luskavi koli",
"markovi drexi i aksesoari", etc. ploskotii.
Znam, che sa mnogo verni i interesni priyateli, s koito spokoino mojesh da
spodelish, znam, che sa mnogo otstupchivi i razbrani: Valentino, Karl
Lagerfeld, Elton John, Oscar Wilde, Lord Byron, Lorca, Cole Porter,
Socrates, Plato, Sappho, Michelangelo, Leonardo Da Vinci (daaaaaa:), George
Sand, Tchaikovsky, Wagner, edin kup Roman Ceasars i krale ot vsykakvi
dinastii, kakto i straxotni Bulgarski artisti i muzikanti sa/bili xora s
(neka go narechem) raznostranni sexualni interesi; az lichno nikoga ne sum
pravila razlika mejdu tyax i "normalnite" i vinagi s udovolstvie sum se
naslajdavala na plodovete na texniya um/xarakter/talant/trud.
priyaten den
i neka sme po-otstupchivi kum drugite, osobeno kogato te ni prikanvat za
tova:)
ani vladi
Plamen
Samo se chudia kak, kogato sam pretrupan s rabota i bukvalno ne yam i
niama vreme (obrazno kazano :-) da otida do toaletnata, shte mi ostane
vreme da izpafkam 20-tina cigari!? Po kolko minuti? Po 10? 200 min
pochivka? Izvinete me, no pushachite si tarsiat izvinenie da krashkat.
3 chasa ot 8 rabotni (ili 24 - zavisi kakvo rabotite) v cigarena pausa
ili s premrejeni ochi ot zabodena v ugala na ustata cigara! A
nepushachite imat samo polovin - edin chas da hapnat neshto!
Naistina zaprilichva na gey parad!
Dimo, ti me vpechatliavash s tvoite metamorfozi! Po-skoro evoliuirash!
Viziram otkritieto na prilikata mejdu totalitarizma i demokraciata.
Zashto triabva da se razvali edna cennostna sistema i bavno da se
'remontira' do gore dolu sashtite parametri? Vsashtnost otgovariash i
na tozi vapros - sashtite igrachi koito zalivat sveta s propaganda na
falshivi moralni stoinosti, klatiat sveta kam 'naklonenata ploskost' -
taka sabirat rekoltata.
Kolkoto do ogranicheniata - da! - na obshestveni mesta. Svobodite -
da! - u doma ili v specialni klubove. Tolkova e prosto i ne vijdam
kakvo tolkova mu diskutirate!
Malko nauchna informacia: gledah edin star film za Dr Vesela
Balabanova, nemski uchen ot universiteta v Ulm. Predi godini tia
'vzriviava' nauchnata obsfhtnost s otkritieto che v egipetskite mumii
ima sledi ot nikotin i kokain! Tova sa hiliadi godini predi tezi
'blaga' na civilizaciata da badat eksportirani ot Novia Sviat kam
Evropa! Zagadka, koiato plache za prenapisvane na mnogo uchebnici i
enciklopedii. Ta tam mejdu drugoto se spomenava che nikotinat v malki
kolichestva e dobar desinfectant. Taka che pushachite, kato ostavime
nastrana che mirishat losho (vsiakakva analogia s drugi temi i
diskusii na foruma e sluchaina:-) moje bi se prechistvat ne samo
dushevno no i fizicheski.
I malko populiarna informacia: Ako pak ste gledali filma na Vim
Venders 'Buena vista social club' , ste videli golemia kubinski
muzikant Compay Segundo s vechnata pura v ustata - vechna zashtoto
umria s neia na blizo 100 godishna vazrast! Kogato bil na 4 godini,
baba mu go karala da i pali purite i toi taka zapochnal da pushi! Ako
chovek znaeshe ot kakvo sas sigurnost shte umre...
Gergana
Vapros na izbor.......
LittleMato
da ti kaja, ubejdeniata mi klonqt wse poweche kam edna kontrolirana
demokracia ot tipa na Singapur - mojesh da prochetesh po waprosa w
internet ;)
Za osbhtestwoto na elinite: da, znam sashto kakwa e i sadbata im, i ne
mi se iska nasheto obshtestwo da ima sashtata sadba. Ne moje po cql
den da se otdawash na orgii i filosofia, trqbwa i da porabotish malko.
Ot tqh pone sa ostanali mitowe i legendi, a ot nas weroqtno nishto
nqma da ostane...
Ne znam dali si zabelqzala, no sashtoto spoletqwa i drevniq Rim -
razwrata i poroka go unishtojawat, zabeleji, imenno onezi razwratni
imperatori kato kaligula i neron go powlichat nadolu kam bezdnata.
Pak kazwam - wseki da prawi kakwoto mu hareswa, no ne w publichnoto
prostranstwo - naprimer kakto prawqt towa tuk w Dubai. Koi ne e chuwal
za pederastkite orgii, organizirani wsqka sedmica? Razwrat,
pederastia, grupow sex - po hoteli i apartamenti, wili i dori po
plaowete. Shtom si plashtat - nikoi ne gi zakacha. Imat si i
zakrilnici ot nai-wisoko rawnishte - wsichko w imeto na imidja. Na men
ne mi puka - do momenta, w koito ne zapochnat da izlizat po ulicite.
Citatite ot bibliata? Da ne zabrawqme, che tq e plod na tzenzurata na
tzarkwata, a kakto znaem w nai-golemite skandali za pedofilia i
homosexualizam sa nabarkani imenno 'tzarkowni deici". Towa nishto ne
dokazwa i nishto ne znachi - pone za men.
Imash dobri poznati, koito sa s obratna naglasa? Nqma losho. Wseki sam
izbira obkrajenieto si. Temata na razgoworite wi ne e "pari",
"biznes", "luskavi koli", "markovi drexi i aksesoari", etc. ploskotii?
Ami az nikoga ne wodq razgowori na takiwa temi ;) Tuk w Dubai towa e
zapazena marka na livanskata obshtnost ;) Mnogo jalko, ako ne
poznawash normalni hora, s koito da razgowarqsh za interesni neshta.
Sred wsichki narodi i 'rezbi' se sreshtat umni i inteligentni hora,
kakto i paplach. Towa twoe twardenie otnowo nishto ne pokazwa i ne
dokazwa, izwinqwai ;)
I za wsqko edno ime, koeto shte mi citirash, az moga da ti citiram po
1000, taka che da ne zapochwame podobno sastezanie ;)
Za Leonardo specialno ;) Znam,che naposeldak se lansira podobna teza,
no shte zamalcha taktichno. Kakto kazah po-rano, w momenta se wodi
mejdunarodna kampania za podkrepa na pederastiata. Dori frenskia
prezident na sreshtata na G8, sled kato se napi kato swinq s dr. Putin
i izleze klatushkasht se na preskonferenciata
(eto wi link
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3220,36-921248@51-912509,0.html
kam video ot waprosnoto sabitie)
ta dori i toi ne propusna da spomene, che edna ot nai-wajnite
diskutirani temi e bila - prawata na homosexualistite. Mislq che
podobna wulgarnost w moment, kogato 1/2 ot naselenieto na zemqta (2-3
miliarda) tane w mizeria, glad i bolesti, e naprawo skandalna. Razbira
se towa e moe vijdane - ti sigurno smqtash inache...
btw. ochakwai nowi senzacionni razkritia za nowi homosexualisti ot
Istoriata. Idwashi predimno ot bratskata USA - "nai-welikata
demokracia na sweta". Koqto btw. legalizira 1 milion sekti, izwrateni
do mozaka na kostite si, koito ejednewno pogubwat stotici i hilqdi
newinni maje, jeni i deca. Brawos! Da jiwee demokraciata ot
amerikanski tip!
Pozdrawi.
LM
PS. Dali sme otstapchiwi ili ne wsashtnost nqma nikakwo znachenie -
dnes wsichko se reshawa ot edria kapital. Ako ne si otstapchiw - shte
stanesh. Koi sega nqma da si dade gaza za malko poweche pari, biznes,
kariera? Az ne, no ne wsichki sa kato men...
LittleMato
neshto ujasno, no nikoi ne e izmislil nesho po-hubawo ot neq ;)
W tozi smisal dneshnata demokracia e dalech ot Churchillowata, uwi.
Neusetno neshtata se promenqt i stawat wse po-malko atraktiwni, no
kakwo da prawim? Zatqgame kolanite i opawame homota.
Ne mi se iska da zapochwame razgowor za socializma i komunizma, samo
ti napomnqm, che imenno socializma se opita da izmesti kapitalizma,
pri towa neuspeshno ;) A towa, che kapitalizma e na pat da se prewarne
w edin golqm bardak s otsenki na koncentracionen lager... kakwo da ti
kaja... Moje bi taka ochakwania potop ili armagedon, narechen globalno
zatoplqne, shte reshi tezi problemi po mnogo eleganten nachin ;)
Za pusheneto i krashkaneto ;) Nedei sadi taka ednostranno, moql te ;)
Az imam wpechatlenia, che pushachite sa dosta "hard working people" za
razlika ot dosta nepushachi (w nikoi sluchai ne wiziram teb, chuwal
sam kak rabotish ;)) ) koito po cql den dremqt pred komputera(/buroto/
telefona/kakwoto i da e) i simulirat rabota ;) Nqkoi ot bratqta
indiici otkroweno si harkat na rabotnite mesta ;)
Btw. izpuswaneto na 1 cigara otnema 7 minuti (Boro 100mm) ili pone az
za tolkowa gi pusheh ;)))
A dali pusheneto e wredno ili ne - wsichki sme saglasni, che e wredno,
no kakto ti sam kaza, zawisi ot organizma. Ediniat mi dqdo - pushach i
upotrebqwash alkohol pochina na 92, drugiat - nepushach i trezwenik
pochina na 93 ;) Ha sega mi kaji towa na kakwo prilicha ;) Az lichno
se nadqwam da prilicham na parwia (pone fizicheskata prilika e
palna) ;)))))))))
I da jiwee Cumpay Segundo! Bog da go prosti!
Pozdrawi,
Dimo
PS. Radwam se, che s teb sme na edno mnenie po otnoshenie na
ogranicheniata i swobodite ;) Mislq, che ne moje da ima trezwo
mislesht chowek, koito da ne se saglasi s towa, no... ima oshte da se
uchudwame, nali ;)
ani vladi
nakratko - vsyaka edna Zivilizaziya na tazi Zemya idva i si otiva i
grafikata na "jivota" i e mnogo sklonen s tozi na choveshkiya - vuzxodi i
padeniya; ako
dopulnitelno se razrovish v istoriyata, shte zabelejish, che vsyaka edna
naziya e imala texnite "zlatni godini" v razlichni periodi - neshto kato
"meksikanskata vulna".
Ot Drevnite ne sa ostanali samo legendi, imenata, koito zitirax sa edni ot
nai-prosvetenite i interesni lichnosti, stupvali nyakoga po tazi Zemya,
xora, s unikalen genii, doprinesli za razvitieto ne samo na tyaxnata
zivilizaziya, no i na nashata (ako tryabva da imash pedvid dostijeniyata,
koito i do dnes nie polzvame:).
Ne e "rocket science", da se predvidi, che i nashata zivilizaziya shte umre,
no ne moje da se obobshtava, che zivilizaziite sa ruxnali zaradi izvrateni
(sexualno) lichnosti. Pri edni e tova, pri drugi e jajdata za kruv (drug tip
izvratenost), pri treti e prekalenata religioznost, robski mentalitet,
ikonomicheska izostanalost, obsht anaxronizum - u name it:)
Zitiraiki imena, koito sa poznati na vseki, az samo iskax da prikanya kum
poveche razbirane i tolerantnost, zashtoto vseki edin/edna ot lichnostite
izbroeni ( a te sa xilyadi, naistina) zaslujava ne prosto uvajenie, zaradi
tova, koeto e doprinesul/a za Choveshkiya Rod. Da gi otrichame e po-skoro
kusogledstvo otkolkoto otstoyavane na poziziya; no ti si prav - vseki ima
nujda ot mnenie, i az ne bix iskala da se opitvam da promenya tvoeto.
Tova, koeto predlojix beshe poveche turpimost kum xora, koito ne sa kato
nas. Tova, che ne gi razbirame (ne mojem da se postavim na tyaxno myasto) ne
znachi, che tryabva da gi otrichame.
Otnosno moite poznati i priyateli - ne se pritesnyavai zaradi men - imam v
obkrujenieto si Livanzi, koito sa dosta po-zdravo stupili na zemyata ot
povecheto drugi nazionalnosti, koito poznavam - obobshtenieto, koeto napravi
za tyax ne be6e nikak obektivno.
kakto i da e - xora vsyakakvi, a az opredeleno ne gi delya na "normalni" i
"obratni".
priyaten den na vsichki
ani vladi
LittleMato
Pak se hwashtash za dumata (osobeno se podraznih ot komentara ti za
livanciet) - taka mojem da si diskutirame i godina wreme. Znaesh
kakwo imam predwid, nqma da ti obqsnqwam. Pak powtarqm - da, nawsqkade
ima hora razlichni, nqma uniwersalni cennosti. Livancite w Dubai
obache (konkretno te, ne wsichki livanci, i poradi spesifikata na
Dubai) wsledstwie sabitiata s darjawata im prez poslednite 40 godini
sa osobeno orientirani kam temite na razgowor, koito ti izbroi predi.
Zaemi, BMW-ta, markowi drehi, nima mojesh da mi posochish hora tuk, w
Dubai (izkluchwam bogatite "lokalki"), koito poweche ot tqh da darjat
na towa? Show off? Az ne se seshtam...
Razbira se winagi shte se namerqt primeri, za da oprowergaem wsqko
edno twardenie,nali...
Za civilizaciite: Da, i shte bade taka dokato ne si wzemem pouka ot
minaloto. Kato gledam - nqma opasnost towa da stane skoro :((((
Pak powtarqm - tolerantnost wsekimu - da. Ot wsichki - za wsichki. W
tazi wrazka bi bilo dobre, ako zakonite i tolerantnostta se prilagat
ednakwo za wsichki, koeto uwi ne stawa nikade po sweta. I za towa li
iskash primeri? Moga da zapochna ot konkretni takiwa ot Dubai, prez
Ewropa, USA i chak do Filipinite i India. 360 gradusowa obikolka.
Sajalqwam, che nikoi drug ne se wkluchi w razgowora - qwno wsichki
predpochitat da si traikat i da gledat seir. Tochno towa, koeto se
ochakwa ot tqh.
Dowechera shte pusnat "Desperate housewives" ili 'CSI" da pogledat
malko ubiistwa, razwodi, homosexualisti, narkotici. Da se poradwat na
show-to. Nqma opasnost da popadnat na film za izobrazitelno izkustwo,
musika ili teatar (ne i po mestnite kanali) - wse edni takiwa skuchni
temi.
Jalko.
LittleMato
http://www.livius.org/ho-hz/homosexuality/homosexuality.html
Osobeno interesen za men e kraqt na izsledwaneto, a imenno - sadbata
na Sokrat.
Kak shte komentirash towa, Ani? Wse pak towa e reshenie na drewnite
Elini, na koito ti taka bezrezerwno se wazhishtawash ;)))
Kopiram q tuk, zashtoto se opasqwam, che moje skoropostijno da bannat
saita...
Greek homosexuality
Homosexuality: sexual attraction to persons of the same sex. In
ancient Greece, this was a normal practice.
Introduction
Violent debate, enthusiastic writings, shamefaced silence, flights of
fantasy: few aspects of ancient society are so hotly contested as
Greek pederasty, or -as we shall see below- homosexuality. Since the
British classicist K.J. Dover published his influential book Greek
Homosexuality in 1978, an avalanche of new studies has appeared. We
can discern two approaches:
The historical approach: scholars are looking for the (hypothetical)
roots of pederasty in very ancient initiation rites and try to
reconstruct a development. Usually, a lot of fantasy is required,
because our sources do not often refer to these ancient rites.
The synchronistic approach: scholars concentrate upon homosexuality in
fifth and fourth-century Athens, where it was integral part of social
life.
In the present article, we will use the second approach, although we
won't ignore the first one. There are many sources of evidence:
lyrical poetry, vases, statues, myths, philosophical treatises,
speeches, inscriptions, medical texts, tragedies, comedies, curses
(example), and anecdotes in which homosexual practices are mentioned,
lauded, ignored, and sometimes discouraged.
The often outspoken poems and the philosophy of Plato (427-347) have
resulted in our expression "Greek principles" to describe male
homosexuality. Unfortunately, we know hardly anything about female
homosexuality. Of course, this does not mean that it did not exist
(cf. the lyrical poetess Sappho), but we simply don't know much about
lesbianism. Therefore, in this article, we will have to focus on male
homosexuality.
Let's start with the word "homosexual". It looks like an ancient Greek
expression, but word and concept are modern inventions: the expression
was coined in 1869 by the Hungarian physician Karoly Maria Benkert
(1824-1882). It took several decades for the word to become current.
In ancient Greece, there never was a word to describe homosexual
practices: they were simply part of aphrodisia, love, which included
men and women alike.
The French social critic and philosopher Michel Foucault (1926-1984)
has asked whether our modern concept, which presupposes a
psychological quality or a proclivity/identity, can be used to
describe the situation in ancient Athens. Foucault's often-quoted
answer is in the negative, because he assumes that the early
nineteenth century was a discontinuity with the preceding history. And
it is true: the Jewish and Christian attitudes and obsessions have
never played a role in the sexual lives of the ancient Greeks. In
their eyes, it was not despicable when a married man had affairs with
boys, although the Athenians expected a man to have children -
especially sons- with his lawful wife. The Athenian man was, according
to Foucault, a macho, a penetrator, the one who forced others to do
what he wanted them to do.
This view now seems outdated. Not all Athenian women have been passive
and not all men were dominant. Prostitution, which was an important
aspect of Athenian life, had little to do with male dominance; nor was
-and this is important- Greek homosexuality restricted to pederastry
between a dominant adult and a shy boy.
Introduction
Pedagogical pederasty
Recent ideas
Plato
The erastes and his eromenos
(©!!!) Pedagogical pederasty
Those scholars who prefer the historical approach are convinced that
pederasty originates in Dorian initiation rites. The Dorians were the
last tribe to migrate to Greece, and they are usually described as
real he-men with a very masculine culture. According to the proponents
of this theory, pederasty came to being on the Dorian island Crete,
where grown-up men used to kidnap adolescents. It is assumed that this
practice spread from Crete to the Greek mainland. In the soldiers'
city Sparta, it was not uncommon when a warrior took care of a recruit
and stood next to him on the battlefield, where the two men bravely
protected each other. Especially in aristocratic circles, pederasty is
believed to have been common.
There are, indeed, a great many pictures on vases that show how an
older lover, the erastes, courts a boy, the eromenos. They appear not
to be of the same age: the erastes has a beard and plays an active
role, whereas the adolescent has no beard and remains passive. He will
never take an initiative, looks shy, and is believed not to have
enjoyed the sexual union. His older lover reached an orgasm by anal or
intercrural contact. ("Intercrural" means that the erastes moved his
penis between the boy's thighs.) on a vase, you will never see a boy
with an erection, even when his erastes touches his genitals. It is
assumed by many modern scholars that as soon as the adolescent had a
beard, the love affair had to be finished. He had to find an eromenos
of his own.
A boy with a hare (Louvre)
It was certainly shameful when a man with a beard remained the passive
partner (pathikos) and it was even worse when a man allowed himself to
be penetrated by another grown-up man. The Greeks even had a
pejorative expression for these people, whom were called kinaidoi.
They were the targets of ridicule by the other citizens, especially
comedy writers. For example, Aristophanes (c.445-c.380) shows them
dressed like women, with a bra, a wig and a gown, and calls them
euryprôktoi, "wide arses".
In this scholarly reconstruction of ancient sexual behavior, the older
lover is presented as some sort of substitute father: he is there to
help his beloved one on his way to manhood and maturity, and to
initiate him in the customs of grown-up people. He showed his
affection with little presents, like animals (a hare or cock), but
also pieces of meat, a disk, a bottle of oil, a garland, a toy, or
money. This type of love affair was, according to this modern theory,
based upon (sexual) reciprocity.
Recent ideas
Meanwhile, however, this image of "pedagogical pederasty" has been
challenged by a series of important publications like Charles
Hupperts' thesis Eros Dikaios (2000). It is now clear that
homosexuality was not restricted to pederasty, and that we have to
study our evidence more carefully.
For example, not every older erastes had a beard, and it turns out to
be a modern fairy tale that the younger eromenos was never aroused.
>From literary sources, we know that boys had their own sexual
feelings. The sixth-century Athenian poet Theognis, for example,
complains about his lover's fickleness and promiscuity. Several vases
show young men with an erect penis. Even when he pretends to shy away,
he does not protest and does not obstruct his lover's attempt to court
him.
Another objection to the traditional reconstruction of Athenian
homosexuality is that there is simply no evidence that the presents
shown on vases had any pedagogic or didactic value. They are just
meant to seduce.
Two young, beardless lovers
(©!!!)
It also appears that the difference in age did not really matter. Not
youth, but beauty was important. (The ancient ideal of male beauty:
broad shoulders, large chest, muscles, a wasp's waist, protruding
buttocks, big thighs, long calfs. A man's forehead was not supposed to
be too high, the nose had to be straight, and he had to have a
projecting lower lip, a round chin, hawk eyes, and hair like a lion.
His genitals had to be small; men with big penises looked like
monkeys.)
There are many pictures of boys courting boys, boys playing sexual
games, and adult men having intercourse. Yet, the latter was probably
unusual or not spoken about, because the passive partner (pathikos)
was -as we have already seen- subject to ridicule.
It is not true that homosexual love for boys was an aristocratic
phenomenon. The reportory of vase paintings does not change when, in
507 BCE, democracy was introduced in Athens. On the contrary, there
appears to be an increase of pederastic and other homosexual
representations.
Vase showing male lovers,
having sex in public.
(Musei Vaticani; ©!!!)
We find many pictures of schools for martial arts, which often had a
statue of the god Eros and where people exercised undressed. They were
considered to be a fine place to meet one's lover. There was a law
that prohibited grown-up men to stay near the dressing rooms, but if
the behavior of the philosopher Socrates (469-399) is typical, this
law was ignored. In fact, it seems that much of Athenian love life
took place in public places: many vases show how people are looking
when two people are having intercourse. There is not a single written
statement that people objected to public sex. (Although it is possible
that the vases are just as unrealistic as modern pornography - but see
below.)
The schools for martial arts were not the only places to pick up a
lover. There were brothels and casinos or kybeia. The port of Piraeus
and the cemeteries outside the city seem to have been popular
"cruising areas" as well, and the border between ordinary love and
prostitution was arbitrary. (The difference is, of course, payment,
but coins were a recent invention and in the early fifth century,
attitudes towards money still had to develop.) Citizen boys often
received money -as payment or as present?- which might cause some
problems if they embarked upon a political career. But not everyone
had this ambition or the possibility to play a decisive role in the
People's Assembly.
Yet, a decent citizen was supposed not to sell his body, and in c.450
BCE, when the Athenian economy had become fully monetarized, a law was
proposed that people who had once prostituted themselves could not run
for an office. Someone who had once sold himself was believed to be
capable of selling the interests of the community as well. From now
on, we find no vase paintings on which the erastes offers money to an
eromenos anymore, which shows that these paintings are more or less
realistic representations of what actually happened.
Later, this law was no longer applied. In the fourth century, it was
not uncommon when two grown-up men shared a home. There must have been
jokes about these men, but obviously, they found this an acceptable
prize to pay for living with their beloved one. There was a large
discrepancy between the official morals, which were expressed in the
ancient laws, and everyday life.
Plato (Musei Capitolini,
Roma) Plato
As we have seen, the traditional image of pedagogical pederasty is
simply mistaken, so what is its origin? The answer is the philosophy
of the Athenian Plato. He has painted a very remarkable picture of his
teacher Socrates, who is shown -in Plato's own words- as boy crazy.
When Socrates was in the company of beautiful boys, he lost his
senses. Some sort of mania (divine madness) took possession of him and
he was almost unable to resist it. He often complained about the fact
that he was helpless towards adolescents, and said that he could only
cope with the situation by asking difficult questions to these
beautiful boys and teaching them philosophy. So, according to Plato,
Socrates sublimated his passion.
Xenophon
(Prado, Madrid; ©!!!)
This is not just Plato's portrayal of his admired teacher. That
Socrates was well-known for this attitude is more or less confirmed by
another student, the mercenary leader and author Xenophon (c.430-c.
354). He informs us that his master, when challenged by the presence
of a good looking adolescent, remained capable of self-control, but
took some measures. He did not allow the boy to embrace him, comparing
his kisses to spider's bites. Sexuality and other physical contact
between teacher and student were simply unacceptable. This is a bolder
portrayal than that of Plato (whose Socrates sometimes yielded to the
temptation), but both writers agree that their master believed that
the contacts between erastes and eromenos could not only be aimed at
sexual love, but also at obtaining moral wisdom and strength. A rather
remarkable educational ideal.
In this context, Socrates/Plato introduces an influential metaphor.
Procreation, he says, can be earthly and spiritual, just like love.
After all, love can be physical -aimed at the beautiful body of a boy-
and spiritual, which he believes is on a higher level. This last type
of love can be described as longing for something good and possessing
it. The true erastes will prefer the beauty of the soul above that of
the body. Instead of a material/earthly parenthood (the procreation of
children) he prefers the spiritual type, which is the creation of
virtue and knowledge. According to Socrates/Plato, the eromenos'
understanding grows and in the end, he will be able to see a beauty
that is above all earthly standards, compared to which even the most
beautiful boy is nothing. In other words, by spiritually loving a
beautiful beloved, the lover reaches an understanding of absolute
beauty. Philosophy is, therefore, an erotical enterprise.
It should be added that for Plato, the only type of real love is the
love between two men, and he has dedicated two of his dialogues to
that subject: the Symposium and the Phaedrus. After all, homo-erotic
love is related to education and gaining knowledge, and this makes it
superior to other types of love.
Socrates
(Louvre, Paris)
In 399 BCE, Socrates was executed on a charge of corrupting the
Athenian youth. This is a bit mysterious, because there was no
Athenian law that said that people who taught bad ideas to young
people ought to be killed. Socrates can not have been guilty of
breaking any written law. However, his fellow-citizens have
interpreted this "corruption of the youth" as a sexual corruption:
they took literally Socrates' metaphor that he loved boys, and this
was indeed breaking the old law of 450 (above) that forbade young
citizens to sell themselves. Correctly or not, Socrates was held
responsible for inducing boys to prostitution.
Plato has tried to take away the blame from Socrates by pointing at
his sincere and spiritual aims. In another context, he presents his
master as saying that men who play the passive role are guilty of
despicable and rampant behavior. After all, Socrates/Plato says, these
men behave like women and are slaves of their passions. In the
dialogue called Gorgias, Socrates declares that he is against all
kinds of excessive sexual acts, and in Plato's main work, The State,
Socrates even rejects all kinds of physical contact as some sort of
unbridled behavior: the good lover treats his beloved one as a father
treats his son.
It can not be said whether Plato's description of Socrates' ideas and
behavior correspond to what Socrates really said and did. What we do
know, however, is that it was at odds with common behavior in ancient
Athens.
Gergana
Obache tozi paragraf mnogo me vpechatli i nyama da se vazdarja ot
komentar:
"Pak kazwam - wseki da prawi kakwoto mu hareswa, no ne w publichnoto
prostranstwo - naprimer kakto prawqt towa tuk w Dubai. Koi ne e
chuwal
za pederastkite orgii, organizirani wsqka sedmica? Razwrat,
pederastia, grupow sex - po hoteli i apartamenti, wili i dori po
plaowete. Shtom si plashtat - nikoi ne gi zakacha."
Normalnite xora, koito rabotyat, imat semeistva i sa preobladavastata
chast na obstestvoto, samo chetat tuk tame za tezi raboti.
Opisanite v zitata meropriyatia ne sa stereotip za Dubaiskoto
obstestvo.
ani vladi
tazi rubrika oshte vchera prestana da e neshto poveche ot straniza za
zabavleniya na "srednostatisticheskiya chitatel na Beseda" - togava se
razbra koi (ot nas dvamata) kakvo mnenie otstoyava, a tova beshe ideyata,
nali?
Sporut zapochna zaradi t.nar. parad, az puk shte ti priznaya, che nikak ne
sum vpechatlena ot reklamniya klip na Ataka, no ne vdignax glas da iskam da
gi zabranyat, nali? Spored men xorata imat pravo na sobstveno mnenie,
osobeno togava kogato se otnasya do tova, kak da si podrejdat jivota - i
osobeno togava, kogato nyama pryako lichno vmeshatelstvo v jivota na drugiya
individ.
Kratko i yasno - kogato sa nasame, da pravyat kakvoto iskat, az shte priema
ot tyax tova, koeto mi xaresva. Ne pisax i za pushachite, nali, vupreki, che
zigareniya dim navsyakade "narushava granizite na lichnoto mi prostranstvo"
i opredeleno me drazni.
priyaten den pak
ani vladi
LittleMato
Na men lichno ne mi hareswa dori da znam, che gi ima...
LittleMato
I az ne hareswam klipa na Ataka ;) Za sajalenie toi pokazwa
nastroenia, koito se nasajdat ejednewno u srednostratisticheskia
bulgarin. Ne mojem da go zabranim, a i ne e redno. Iska mi se da
mojeshe neshtata w Bulgaria da bqha protekli po drug nachin i da ne se
stiga do takiwa krainosti, no uwi, ne mojem da promenim minaloto...
Ne e nujno da zabranqwame nishto, prosto mi se iska da ima poweche
umerenost u wsichki. Ako q imashe, moje bi nqmashe da se nalaga da
sporim za podobni neshta, ami shtqhme da opolzotworqwame wremeto si i
energiata si za drugi, po-interesni i gradiwni, a i artistichni,
diskusii.
Pozdrawi!
ani vladi
nali znaesh, che ne jiveem v idealen svyat.............. no nishto - nie pak
mojem da si sporim za izkustvo i kultura, nali ;)
dobro utro na vsichki
av
LittleMato
Eto wi 2 interesni statii po temata "tiutun" ;)))
Smokeless tobacco:
http://www.tobaccojournal.com/Philip_Morris_to_test_smokeless_tobacco_product.48457.0.html
Osobeno tazi - za lubitelite na dizain i reklama:
http://www.tobaccojournal.com/Objects_of_desire___the_latest_in_cigarette_packaging.48416.0.html
;))) Jestoko ;)
