Fwd: a 22 year difference

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Walter Bickford

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Jul 20, 2019, 2:27:00 PM7/20/19
to Gail Bickford, Chet Atkins, John Rona Balco, Bruce Bauman, Dave Burke, Burns, David E (DCR), Mark Burton, Richard Callaghan, Doug Campbell, Don Carlisle, Ken Cleveland, vera Cohen, MaryEllen Desantis, Barbara Desrosiers, John DeVillars, Ray Dona, Dave Goulding, Duggan, Bob Durand, Jamie Eldridge, Helen Elias, Coyote Espinosa, Fearbay, Frank Finnerty, Tom Galvin, Patric Garner, Pete Gemelli, google group, Whitney Hatch, Jay Healy, Priscilla Hogan, Manny Holmes, Horne, Rob, James Holyoke, Maureenj Johnson, Tamara Johnston <", Bob Jones, Charlie Kupfer, Joe Larson, Marion Larson, Julie Lee, Linzee, Wayne MacCallum, Carolyn MacDonald, David Marble, Rob MacKay, Doc Marciano, Rich Mariani, Mary Ellen Mathew, Maryanne McCloud, Rep. Jim McGovern, McGregor, Mikelk, June and Marty Miller, Mills Mills Wilderness Adventures, Dick and Jean Mitchel, Liz Mitchel, Calvin Moore, Matt Barron, Brian Murphy, Harold Naughton, Glen Nelson, Dianne Peterson, Frank Phillips, Judy Pickett, Ray, Joel Plastridgee, Carl Prescott, Ray Renzoni, Randy Richard, Root, Peggy Sardell, Mike Sawyer, John Scanlon, Darrel Schulty, Scully, Dave Shea, Chris Slade, Peg Stone, Greg Sullivan, accountant Town, Joe Trainor, preston Turner, Charlie Wade, David Westerling, Tim Wheeler, Bob Williams, Don Wright



Democrats better wake up on the immigration issue.
Liz Warren has killed her opportunity to get elected president with her recent short-sighted, ultra-left position on emigration.  It was so contrary to the thinking of the large majority of voters that she may have tainted all Democratic candidates. -- The issue is not "Racism" -- "It's the numbers stupid."  Global population has increased more than 300% in my lifetime. Numerous studies document that strife and crime increases with population density. --  This is a deeply complex issue.  A book could be written about the inequity of our use of the world's finite resources and energy, and production of waste when compared to other countries.  We "owe" women of 3rd world countries, e.g., Guatemala, all we can do to up their standard of living and health, and, most important, equality with men.--Blah, blah, blah, ....  Listen to Bill.  He was very intelligent and eloquent. 


Subject:  a 22 year difference

How about this idea?


Donald Trump should just televise this Bill Clinton speech from 1995 and then simply state "I'm Donald Trump and I approve this message." 


Diana Carroll

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Jul 20, 2019, 2:29:03 PM7/20/19
to Walter Bickford, Barbara Desrosiers, Bob Durand, Bob Jones, Bob Williams, Brian Murphy, Bruce Bauman, Burns, David E (DCR), Calvin Moore, Carl Prescott, Carolyn MacDonald, Charlie Kupfer, Charlie Wade, Chet Atkins, Chris Slade, Coyote Espinosa, Darrel Schulty, Dave Burke, Dave Goulding, Dave Shea, David Marble, David Westerling, Dianne Peterson, Dick and Jean Mitchel, Doc Marciano, Don Carlisle, Don Wright, Doug Campbell, Duggan, Fearbay, Frank Finnerty, Frank Phillips, Gail Bickford, Glen Nelson, Greg Sullivan, Harold Naughton, Helen Elias, Horne, Rob, James Holyoke, Jamie Eldridge, Jay Healy, Joe Larson, Joe Trainor, Joel Plastridgee, John DeVillars, John Rona Balco, John Scanlon, Judy Pickett, Julie Lee, June and Marty Miller, Ken Cleveland, Linzee, Liz Mitchel, Manny Holmes, Marion Larson, Mark Burton, Mary Ellen Mathew, MaryEllen Desantis, Maryanne McCloud, Matt Barron, Maureenj Johnson, McGregor, Mike Sawyer, Mikelk, Mills Mills Wilderness Adventures, Patric Garner, Peg Stone, Peggy Sardell, Pete Gemelli, Priscilla Hogan, Randy Richard, Ray, Ray Dona, Ray Renzoni, Rep. Jim McGovern, Rich Mariani, Richard Callaghan, Rob MacKay, Root, Scully, Tamara Johnston <", Tim Wheeler, Tom Galvin, Wayne MacCallum, Whitney Hatch, accountant Town, google group, preston Turner, vera Cohen
And what does this have to do with the town of Berlin?

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Walter Bickford

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Jul 20, 2019, 2:30:13 PM7/20/19
to Gail Bickford, Chet Atkins, John Rona Balco, Bruce Bauman, Dave Burke, Burns, David E (DCR), Mark Burton, Richard Callaghan, Doug Campbell, Don Carlisle, Ken Cleveland, vera Cohen, MaryEllen Desantis, Barbara Desrosiers, John DeVillars, Ray Dona, Dave Goulding, Duggan, Bob Durand, Jamie Eldridge, Helen Elias, Coyote Espinosa, Fearbay, Frank Finnerty, Tom Galvin, Patric Garner, Pete Gemelli, google group, Whitney Hatch, Jay Healy, Priscilla Hogan, Manny Holmes, Horne, Rob, James Holyoke, Maureenj Johnson, Tamara Johnston <", Bob Jones, Charlie Kupfer, Joe Larson, Marion Larson, Julie Lee, Linzee, Wayne MacCallum, Carolyn MacDonald, David Marble, Rob MacKay, Doc Marciano, Rich Mariani, Mary Ellen Mathew, Maryanne McCloud, Rep. Jim McGovern, McGregor, Mikelk, June and Marty Miller, Mills Mills Wilderness Adventures, Dick and Jean Mitchel, Liz Mitchel, Calvin Moore, Matt Barron, Brian Murphy, Harold Naughton, Glen Nelson, Dianne Peterson, Frank Phillips, Judy Pickett, Ray, Joel Plastridgee, Carl Prescott, Ray Renzoni, Randy Richard, Root, Peggy Sardell, Mike Sawyer, John Scanlon, Darrel Schulty, Scully, Dave Shea, Chris Slade, Peg Stone, Greg Sullivan, accountant Town, Joe Trainor, preston Turner, Charlie Wade, David Westerling, Tim Wheeler, Bob Williams, Don Wright





Liz Warren has killed her opportunity to get elected president with her recent, short-sighted position on emigration.  It was so contrary to the large majority voter thinking that she may have tainted all Democratic candidates. -- The issue is not "Racism"; "It's the numbers stupid."  Global population has increased more than 300% in my lifetime. The numerous studies that document that strife and -- crime increases with population density.  This is a deeply complex issue.  A book could be written about the inequity of our use of the world's finite resources and energy, and production of waste when  compared to other countries.  We "owe" women of 3rd world countries all we can do to up their standard of living and health, and, most im

Dwight A. Ernest

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Jul 20, 2019, 2:36:12 PM7/20/19
to Walter Bickford, Gail Bickford, Chet Atkins, John Rona Balco, Bruce Bauman, Dave Burke, Burns, David E (DCR), Mark Burton, Richard Callaghan, Doug Campbell, Don Carlisle, Ken Cleveland, vera Cohen, MaryEllen Desantis, Barbara Desrosiers, John DeVillars, Ray Dona, Dave Goulding, Duggan, Bob Durand, Jamie Eldridge, Helen Elias, Coyote Espinosa, Fearbay, Frank Finnerty, Tom Galvin, Patric Garner, Pete Gemelli, google group, Whitney Hatch, Jay Healy, Priscilla Hogan, Manny Holmes, Horne, Rob, James Holyoke, Maureenj Johnson, Tamara Johnston <, Bob Jones, Charlie Kupfer, Joe Larson, Marion Larson, Julie Lee, Linzee, Wayne MacCallum, Carolyn MacDonald, David Marble, Rob MacKay, Doc Marciano, Rich Mariani, Mary Ellen Mathew, Maryanne McCloud, Rep. Jim McGovern, McGregor, Mikelk, June and Marty Miller, Mills Mills Wilderness Adventures, Dick and Jean Mitchel, Liz Mitchel, Calvin Moore, Matt Barron, Brian Murphy, Harold Naughton, Glen Nelson, Dianne Peterson, Frank Phillips, Judy Pickett, Ray, Joel Plastridgee, Carl Prescott, Ray Renzoni, Randy Richard, Root, Peggy Sardell, Mike Sawyer, John Scanlon, Darrel Schulty, Scully, Dave Shea, Chris Slade, Peg Stone, Greg Sullivan, accountant Town, Joe Trainor, preston Turner, Charlie Wade, David Westerling, Tim Wheeler, Bob Williams, Don Wright
Walter, this is not the proper forum for partisan political messages. Stop it, or risk starting a heated debate that we will all regret.
--
-Dwight A. Ernest
 Berlin MA or Pawtucket RI, USA      +1.860.532.0650     dwight...@gmail.com      KA2CNN     Ask for my encryption key.



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Walter Bickford

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Jul 20, 2019, 4:35:58 PM7/20/19
to Dwight A. Ernest, Gail Bickford, Chet Atkins, John Rona Balco, Bruce Bauman, Dave Burke, Burns, David E (DCR), Mark Burton, Richard Callaghan, Doug Campbell, Don Carlisle, Ken Cleveland, vera Cohen, MaryEllen Desantis, Barbara Desrosiers, John DeVillars, Ray Dona, Dave Goulding, Duggan, Bob Durand, Jamie Eldridge, Helen Elias, Coyote Espinosa, Fearbay, Frank Finnerty, Tom Galvin, Patric Garner, Pete Gemelli, google group, Whitney Hatch, Jay Healy, Priscilla Hogan, Manny Holmes, Horne, Rob, James Holyoke, Maureenj Johnson, Tamara Johnston <, Bob Jones, Charlie Kupfer, Joe Larson, Marion Larson, Julie Lee, Linzee, Wayne MacCallum, Carolyn MacDonald, David Marble, Rob MacKay, Doc Marciano, Rich Mariani, Mary Ellen Mathew, Maryanne McCloud, Rep. Jim McGovern, McGregor, Mikelk, June and Marty Miller, Mills Mills Wilderness Adventures, Dick and Jean Mitchel, Liz Mitchel, Calvin Moore, Matt Barron, Brian Murphy, Harold Naughton, Glen Nelson, Dianne Peterson, Frank Phillips, Judy Pickett, Ray, Joel Plastridgee, Carl Prescott, Ray Renzoni, Randy Richard, Root, Peggy Sardell, Mike Sawyer, John Scanlon, Darrel Schulty, Scully, Dave Shea, Chris Slade, Peg Stone, Greg Sullivan, accountant Town, Joe Trainor, preston Turner, Charlie Wade, David Westerling, Tim Wheeler, Bob Williams, Don Wright

The impacts of overpopulation, Mal-distribution of natural and financial resources, illegal emigration, and global woman's rights underlie all crises (including global warming), and someone darn well better "risk starting a heated debate" or "we will all regret" not doing so.

Walter Bickford

Tim Pierce

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Jul 21, 2019, 1:48:52 AM7/21/19
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What's most interesting to me about the whole kerfuffle the right-wing attack machine has kicked up over immigration is that since 2007, the total number of Mexican immigrants living in the United States has been steadily declining. There is no immigration emergency coming from Mexico. If anything, a wall along the border would keep immigrants *in*.

Apparently, if the GOP really wanted to minimize the number of Mexican nationals living in the U.S., they would simply continue exactly the immigration policies Barack Obama had in place for eight years.

Can you imagine how fast heads would explode?

Walter Bickford

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Jul 21, 2019, 9:07:09 AM7/21/19
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Tim,

Once again, I am not concerned about "Mexicans" (as you incorrectly frame the issue) or any other race.  I, as is the majority of Americans, am against "numbers" no matter the race.  And from what I read, the "numbers" crossing the southern border are increasing.  The U.S. needs to push back to protect North America from 'any' increased population and get more aggressive and supportive of family planning and with increasing individual freedoms south of the border.  Mexican, French, Guatemalan, English, Canadian, or Algerian immigrants, regardless of the race, are, on the whole, more harmful than beneficial.

Again, "It's the Numbers Stupid." -- (Just making a point.  Not intended to be personal.)

Jonathan Slate

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Jul 21, 2019, 9:41:35 AM7/21/19
to Walter Bickford, berl...@googlegroups.com
Walter, I agree 100% that this is not a time for neutrality. That’s why I drove into Boston last weekend with a neighbor and a dozen protest signs.

But I know from experience that debates about highly contentious issues held on email lists, or other online groups, tend to do more harm than good. The format simply promotes division and hostility. And the volume of messages ends up exceeding the tolerance of most people, so people stop using the resource. If that happens to this list, then we will have lost a useful public forum. My concern is that, in the end, we will end up having fewer connections with each other and fewer of these necessary conversations.

My offer stands, I will gladly meet at 19 Carter for a cup of tea and a civil conversation about immigration or anything else. Maybe Tim would be willing to join us, he seems to have some opinions as well.

Jonathan 


Tim Pierce

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Jul 21, 2019, 1:01:32 PM7/21/19
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Walter, thanks for clarifying that you're not talking about "Mexican" immigration but simply "crossing our southern border", that sure helps clear things up since there are so many countries that border the U.S.

So if it's the numbers, stupid, here are some numbers to consider, from the Pew Research Center:

The number of Mexican immigrants living in the U.S. illegally has declined by 2 million since 2007, from 6.9 million down to 4.9 million. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/28/what-we-know-about-illegal-immigration-from-mexico/

The total number of unauthorized immigrants from Central America and Asia has increased, but even so, net immigration to the U.S. remains negative. The population of unauthorized immigrants in the country hit its peak in 2007, at 12.2 million, and has declined by almost two million since then. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/12/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

As I said before, it seems as though the country's policies were most hospitable for illegal immigration before 2007. Those who are alarmed about scary foreign people with funny-sounding names might do best to advocate to reinstate the immigration policies of the Obama administration, if that's really the issue they find most important.

--t.

Ornella Quinn

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Jul 21, 2019, 2:15:32 PM7/21/19
to Jonathan Slate, Walter Bickford, berl...@googlegroups.com
Jonathan,
That sounds like a wonderful suggestion and might serve as a more effective  platform for healthy and helpful discussion for those who are interested.
Best,
Ornella 

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