Leaking shaft log - warranty repair, but are they doing it right?
jwshukis
and crannies and came across something rather disturbing. In the aft
cabin, under the mattress, about 18" aft of the Volvo shaft seal, is a
small bilge recess. Here I found a puddle of water about 4" by 8" and
1/16" deep. The disturbing part? It tastes salty and rusty and it's
coming *up* through the hull - and not from the shaft seal, which is
"lower" in the hull and completely dry.
Looking into the very bottom of the bilge recess I found a transverse
crack about 4" long and 1/8" wide. I can shove a stick - actually a
plastic zip tie - *down* into the crack about 5". That's 5" below what
I thought, until a few days ago, was the bottom of the hull.
Talking to my dealer, the shaft log runs below this recess and is
encased in a fiberglass "tray" under this part of the hull. My zip tie
appears to be sticking down through the main hull into this tray. Of
course there should not be any water here. Beneteau says that they use
4200 to glue the shaft log to the tray and that it has obviously
failed.
Beneteau has agreed to haul the boat and pay for the repair, but I'm
not sure that what they want to do is correct. They want to have the
yard haul, grind out the old putty, put in the new, let it dry, and
splash the boat... in about 36 hours total. Is this the right way to
fix this issue?
-- Has anyone else experienced this problem?
-- Doesn't the wet fiberglass need to "dry out" completely before they
seal it up again? There was water deep inside the boat, below the hull
liner and surrounding the shaft log, for many months. Won't this water
cause problems later if it is just "sealed up"?
-- Won't my bottom paint be wrecked by drying out? It's Petit Vivid,
which says that it can be hauled and launched, but would it last the
few weeks required to dry out the boat?
Thanks,
Jeff
Bill Jarvis
Some years ago I caught a dock line around my prop and it pulled really
tight and pulled the shaft strut sideways.
The result was that the strut was cracked and partially pulled from the
hull. Water came in. On the 42s7 the fiberglass strut is mounted through a
box section of the hull almost under the fuel tank.
I had to replace the strut.
While waiting for one to be available I sealed the leak with waterproof
epoxy.
Once hauled I had to chip out what looked like an epoxy cement filling the
space between the strut and the box. Eventually that exposed a bolt which
went through the assembly transversely whose only purpose seemed to be to
hold the strut at the right height during assembly. Once that was out I put
in the new shaft (the old one was bent) and used it to help get the new
strut properly aligned. I then filled in around the bottom of the strut
where it exited the hull with epoxy putty and then poured epoxy in to the
top of the box until it would take no more. The result has been excellent to
about nine years.
I tell you all this since it sounds as if the construction of your shaft log
may be similar.
Bill
Thanks,
Jeff
--
Largest Beneteau group, over **900** members and growing.
Read these list rules in the groups pages, cut and paste this link
http://groups.google.com/group/beneteau-owners/web/LIST+RULES?hl=en
To post to this group, send email to Benetea...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
Beneteau-Owne...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/Beneteau-Owners
contact denny.we...@gmail.com, or ume...@comcast.net if you have a
list management question
Paul Schwab
Can't help with any of your questions/concerns except the last one.
Pettit Vivid is a hard finish, multi-season paint that is designed to remain
effective when the boat is hauled. I used to own a trailerable and used
Pettit Vivid specifically because of these properties.
Paul
Mohammad Bayegan
jwshukis
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> Beneteau-Owne...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/Beneteau-Owners
>
> --
> Largest Beneteau group, over **900** members and growing.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> Beneteau-Owne...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/Beneteau-Owners
> list management question
jwshukis
boat. The "skeg" is a large separate fiberglass piece (I called it a
tray) attached to the hull - not a metal skeg as is found on many
boats. The fiberglass shaft log (tube) runs through the skeg and is
adhered at both ends.
My leak is somewhere between the shaft seal and where the shaft log
exits the hull. The integrity of the putty at the shaft seal side is
good. I'm guessing that the skeg is mostly hollow and this is allowing
water from the leak to fill the skeg.
Jeff
> To post to this group, send email to Benetea...@googlegroups.com<mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com>
> contact denny.werthei...@gmail.com<mailto:denny.werthei...@gmail.com>, or ume...@comcast.net<mailto:ume...@comcast.net> if you have a
>
> --
> Largest Beneteau group, over **900** members and growing.
> Read these list rules in the groups pages, cut and paste this link
> To post to this group, send email to Benetea...@googlegroups.com<mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Beneteau-Owne...@googlegroups.com<mailto:Beneteau-Owners-unsubsc ri...@googlegroups.com>
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/Beneteau-Owners<http://groups.google.com/group/Beneteau-Owners>
> contact denny.werthei...@gmail.com<mailto:denny.werthei...@gmail.com>, or ume...@comcast.net<mailto:ume...@comcast.net> if you have a list management question
>
>
>
> IMG_3543 (1).JPG
> 1523KViewDownload
>
> DSC04206.JPG
> 676KViewDownload
>
> DSC00193.JPG
> 345KViewDownload
Mohammad Bayegan
contact denny.we...@gmail.com, or ume...@comcast.net if you have a list management question
Alan Kerr
Alan
> contact denny.we...@gmail.com, or ume...@comcast.net if you have a list management question
Rick Donovan
On Jan 5, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Alan Kerr wrote:
> The thing that strikes me, when I read about significant issues like this that many Beneteau owners have, is that there should be involvement from Beneteau's technical people in Marion, where they put the boats together in the first place, giving advice on what the issue is and how to fix it - properly, the first time. Too often it's boatowners who have had similar experiences giving opinions, and in many cases it's just that -- an opinion. Now I'm sure that Beneteau's lawyers would give me a good reason why their technical experts would not be allowed to give advice on a public forum, but nevertheless I find it disappointing, and in many cases, unnecessarily expensive to the boatowner.
>
> Alan
Alan
that is a great point, but I feel that you may have answered this with the sentence on the legal aspects.
I would also think that you could make an argument that the repairs done incorrectly due to lack of available information or expertise will cause bad press for the brand as a whole. bad news travels much faster and further than good news these days. what is that worth to a manufacturer?
Rick Donovan
Biddeford, Maine
Shelley Won
Jeffrey
Shelley – Post the names… always good data to have on hand.
Jeffrey Schwartz
Rick Donovan
On Jan 5, 2011, at 3:33 PM, Shelley Won wrote:
> To all Beneteau Owners:
>
> We recently (July) took possession of our 2nd Beneteau. The first was a 373, which never seemed to have problems & our new boat a new Oceanis 50 is riddled with them. We've found in dealing with both our dealer in New York & the Beneteau people, that neither wants to accept responsibility for the problems. The dealer blames Beneteau & Beneteau blames the dealer. We've finally reached a point where we're dealing with the president of Beneteau USA as well as the Warranty Manager, both in Marion. What we've found overall, is that there is a serious lack of documentation of the boats systems and there is no-one educated enough to handle all issues. We've also found that when something fails we get a lot of "well we don't use that anymore". So... one thing I can advise.... never buy a young hull. Wait till all the kinks are out. We bought hull #4, and unfortunately found it to be a very expensive mistake.
> I know this has nothing to do with all the individual issues reported on this site but thought it was a good piece of advice.
>
> Shelley
>
>
Shelley,
congratulations on the new 50.
for what it is worth, we purchased a 2001 473,hull #29. using your thought process on later units having the bugs and kinks worked out, you would expect the technicians in Marion would have had it down pat on our 473 after building 28 others, and I would tend to agree with that, but that was not the case for us. I can attest that the later hull number did not help in our case and may not make a lot of difference in taking care of your problems either.
we went thru what were several relatively small but aggravating problems, but we got exactly the same runaround that you describe from our useless dealer in Massachusetts and Beneteau as well. I actually made a trip to the Newport RI boat show just to confront my dealership owner who had been avoiding returning my calls for several weeks and to also speak with Beneteau factory reps in person about the lack of cooperation from the dealer. I came back home with a bag full of promises from both sides, but not one problem was ever taken care of by either party I am sad to say. so I wish you the best and hope your problems are minor in nature as ours were.
I don't mean to sound like I am trashing Beneteau here. I am just reporting my results when contacting them. I have read a bunch of emails over the years here on the list about how helpful the folks in Marion were for many others, but that was not what I came away with for results when I tried to contact them and I am still puzzled by that. I do not consider myself hard to get along with so I do not have an explanation for this. it was not as if I was insisting on immediate service. I just wanted someone to take the issues seriously enough to say we will take care of it, even sometime before the warranty ran out would have worked for me. all I ever got was a runaround from the dealer if I ever got past the receptionist when calling them. although minor in nature considering what is involved to assemble a product like this, I had legitimate problems that should have been taken care of under warranty before taking delivery or shortly there after. in my case that did not happen and it was obvious from day one of the delivery that once the boat left the dealership I was on my own.
also, I found that even though I did eventually get my hands on some electrical prints for a problem I had already fixed myself, they did not match my boat well enough to use for trouble shooting. My example, the first problem I needed to trace down was a noisy engine room fan noticed less than two hours into the delivery back to Maine. first thing I did when getting back home was to change the fan thinking there was something wrong with it. when the noise was still there I took the time to do what I should have done in the first place and checked the DC voltage at the connections. the voltage was under 10 VDC, a problem that ultimately proved to be just a careless crimp on a wire. several weeks after fixing this myself, the prints that I requested from Marion finally showed up on my fax. that print shows the 12 VDC connection for this fan at the back of the ignition switch. having already followed the wire all the way from the stern trying to find its source, I already knew there was no connection at the switch. I ultimately found that bad connection for power to the fan at the back of the alternator. those prints did not match how the boat was wired at all. it seems as if each electrician has his own method in Marion from what I could see.
anyway, enough bitchin about past troubles. once we got these little things fixed up, on our own, we had very little to do for maintenance like that to deal with. the boat was nearly bullet proof in the 7 seasons we owned it. I hope you get the same on your new purchase for many seasons to come.
Happy Sailing
Rick Donovan
Biddeford, Maine
ourdr...@gmail.com
I think many have had very good experience with "Beneteau's technical
people in Marion"
You just have to ask. Ward Richardson in particular is very
responsive and helpful.
Problem arise with bad advice from "yard experts" and some dealers
that have less experience with our boats.
It is none the less frustrating.
Bob
S/V Our Dream
Castle Harbor Marina Slip C-17
'97 Beneteau Oceanis 351 #195
Slip C-17, Castle Harbor Marina
Chester River Kent Island
Chester, MD
_/)__/)__/)_
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Kerr
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 2:19 PM
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
markd...@hotmail.com
My French built 54 may share some things with your boat. I'd be happy to help any way I can as I've figured out a few things over the last 1.5 years.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
Larry Read
When we took delivery of our 393, 3 years ago we received the owners manual for a with a different brand of engine and with a shoal keel instead of the deep keel. Add to this various minor problems. You are quite correct that the dealer points at Beneteau and Benateau points their finger right back at the dealer.
Everything changed for us when I filled out the survey rating the dealer. The highest score I gave was a 1 and most were 0's. About three weeks later I received a call from the salesman and he was very apologetic and wanted to know what they could do to fix our issues and improve their score. About three months later I received another survey. Apparently the dealers are rated on the surveys and it sure motivated our dealer to get it right.
I also had to call the president of Beneteau to get the proper documentation. I was surprised he took my call. He listened and turned me over to a VP of something but I got what I wanted. I believe the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Keep dogging them and they will want you to go away.
For what it's worth I have been told by owners of other brands it is standard procedure to deny any problems right from the start.
You may be nice but be persistent. You may have to be not so nice but you paid a lot for your boat and deserve to have it work properly.
Good luck
Larry
Sent from my iPhone
Mohammad Bayegan
----- Original Message -----From: JeffreySent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 2:50 PMSubject: RE: {Beneteau Owners} Leaking shaft log - warranty repair, but are they doing it right?Shelley - Post the names. always good data to have on hand.
Oasis 473 Huntington, NY
that Beneteau’s problems with quality are directly related to the slow
economy.
As Beneteau’s sales volume decrease so does their need for
employees. As they begin layoffs they lose various layers of seasoned
employees and management more importantly they also lose a certain
depth of knowledge about how to build their own product. It is a very
difficult situation to deal with because Beneteau needs to survive the
economy by cutting operational expenses. At the same time they need to
still deliver boats to stay in business but they cannot maintain the
quality because the people with the knowledge are gone possibly
replaced with newer lower wage employees with limited skills and
knowledge.
Unfortunately the customers are the recipients of these bad boats and
thanks to the internet and blogs like this a specific year and model
boat may get black balled in the secondary used market because of
these issues. Of course the owner is the person who ends up with this
tremendous financial loss.
Even more disconcerting: I am not sure if the nature of the quality
problems can be discovered on a routine inspection and sea trials or
that these problems are developing over time and after some use. I
think the dealers should insist on having Beneteau allow them to do a
pre delivery inspection and sea trial at the Beneteau factory before
taking delivery of the boats. I bet if Beneteau knew that dealers were
rejecting boats at the factory and Beneteua wasn’t getting paid it
would make a huge difference to the quality. Currently I am sure that
Beneteau just builds the boat, ships it, and get paid from the
dealer’s floor plan with the dealer not inspecting the boat until it
is on his property and paid for. Then the dealer is jammed because he
needs to get that boat delivered because each day it sits there it is
cost him interest. It is a huge cash flow wheel that is turning with
the customers being the ultimate losers.
If this keeps up I suspect Beneteau might consider consolidating back
to France to save the brand.
On Jan 5, 3:33 pm, Shelley Won <shelley0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> To all Beneteau Owners:
>
> We recently (July) took possession of our 2nd Beneteau. The first was a
> 373, which never seemed to have problems & our new boat a new Oceanis 50 is
> riddled with them. We've found in dealing with both our dealer in New York
> & the Beneteau people, that neither wants to accept responsibility for the
> problems. The dealer blames Beneteau & Beneteau blames the dealer. We've
> finally reached a point where we're dealing with the president of Beneteau
> USA as well as the Warranty Manager, both in Marion. What we've found
> overall, is that there is a serious lack of documentation of the boats
> systems and there is no-one educated enough to handle all issues. We've
> also found that when something fails we get a lot of "well we don't use that
> anymore". So... one thing I can advise.... never buy a young hull. Wait
> till all the kinks are out. We bought hull #4, and unfortunately found it
> to be a very expensive mistake.
> I know this has nothing to do with all the individual issues reported on
> this site but thought it was a good piece of advice.
>
> Shelley
>
> ps...if anyone need contact emails or phone #'s in Marion, I'm your gal.
>
> > list management question
jbf...@comcast.net
Reading this string I am beginning to wonder if we were just fortunate, or if our dealer was great, or if things have changed at Beneteau, or all three. We had a few warranty issues with our 2008 B46, but I have never met anyone who purchased a perfect new boat. Our dealer (G. Winters) was very responsive and resolved every issue in a timely manner. I know this is no consolation to people on the list with issues, but just in case there are potential buyers on the list, I wanted to make sure they were not scared off because of this string. I do believe that the dealer is very important, and Beneteau has an award level (sorry I forgot what it is called) for their best dealers, and I think it really makes a difference.
Joe Fults
To all Beneteau Owners:
We recently (July) took possession of our 2nd Beneteau. The first was a 373, which never seemed to have problems & our new boat a new Oceanis 50 is riddled with them. We've found in dealing with both our dealer in New York & the Beneteau people, that neither wants to accept responsibility for the problems. The dealer blames Beneteau & Beneteau blames the dealer. We've finally reached a point where we're dealing with the president of Beneteau USA as well as the Warranty Manager, both in Marion. What we've found overall, is that there is a serious lack of documentation of the boats systems and there is no-one educated enough to handle all issues. We've also found that when something fails we get a lot of "well we don't use that anymore". So... one thing I can advise.... never buy a young hull. Wait till all the kinks are out. We bought hull #4, and unfortunately found it to be a very expensive mistake.
I know this has nothing to do with all the individual issues reported on this site but thought it was a good piece of advice.
Shelley
ps...if anyone need contact emails or phone #'s in Marion, I'm your gal.
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Rick Donovan <rdono...@maine.rr.com> wrote:
On Jan 5, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Alan Kerr wrote:
> The thing that strikes me, when I read about significant issues like this that many Beneteau owners have, is that there should be involvement from Beneteau's technical people in Marion, where they put the boats together in the first place, giving advice on what the issue is and how to fix it - properly, the first time. Too often it's boatowners who have had similar experiences giving opinions, and in many cases it's just that -- an opinion. Now I'm sure that Beneteau's lawyers would give me a good reason why their technical experts would not be allowed to give advice on a public forum, but nevertheless I find it disappointing, and in many cases, unnecessarily expensive to the boatowner.
>
> AlanAlan
that is a great point, but I feel that you may have answered this with the sentence on the legal aspects.
I would also think that you could make an argument that the repairs done incorrectly due to lack of available information or expertise will cause bad press for the brand as a whole. bad news travels much faster and further than good news these days. what is that worth to a manufacturer?
Rick Donovan
Biddeford, Maine
--
Largest Beneteau group, over **900** members and growing.
Read these list rules in the groups pages, cut and paste this link
http://groups.google.com/group/beneteau-owners/web/LIST+RULES?hl=en
To post to this group, send email to Benetea...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Beneteau-Owne...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Beneteau-Owners
contact denny.we...@gmail.com, or ume...@comcast.net if you have a list management question
--
Largest Beneteau group, over **900** members and growing.
Read these list rules in the groups pages, cut and paste this link
http://groups.google.com/group/beneteau-owners/web/LIST+RULES?hl=en
To post to this group, send email to Benetea...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Beneteau-Owne...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Beneteau-Owners
contact denny.we...@gmail.com, or ume...@comcast.net if you have a list management question
--
Largest Beneteau group, over **900** members and growing.
Read these list rules in the groups pages, cut and paste this link
http://groups.google.com/group/beneteau-owners/web/LIST+RULES?hl=en
To post to this group, send email to Benetea...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Beneteau-Owne...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Beneteau-Owners
contact denny.we...@gmail.com, or ume...@comcast.net if you have a list management question
Largest Beneteau group, over **930** members and growing.
Read these list rules in the groups pages, cut and paste this link
http://groups.google.com/group/beneteau-owners/web/LIST+RULES?hl=en
To post to this group, send email to Benetea...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Beneteau-Owne...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Beneteau-Owners
Sailor Parker
the boat. After reading these posts I'd say quaility has taken a dive
at the factory.
Mohammad Bayegan
----- Original Message -----From: Sailor ParkerTo: Beneteau OwnersSent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 3:54 PMSubject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} Leaking shaft log - warranty repair, but are they doing it right?
Our B is 19 years old and we've never had a problem with anything on
the boat. After reading these posts I'd say quaility has taken a dive
at the factory.
jwshukis
I got you for your birthday... (inside joke)
Actually, Beneteau was involved in figuring out the fix. I originally
asked the dealer (Wayne at Passage Yachts) to look at it. He/They did,
and they then worked with the yard (KKMI) to specify the fix. Passage
then submitted the plan and the budget to Beneteau who approved the
methodology and agreed to pay for the work. Luckily, the very helpful
people on this forum and the SeaKnots list suggested the same fix as
Beneteau.
Jeff
>
> - Show quoted text -