Re: {Beneteau Owners} Forward Water Tank Hatch and VDO Waterlevel Sensor

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David Fletcher

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Aug 20, 2014, 8:41:55 AM8/20/14
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The sender works off of the ground side. There is no power. Take an ohm meter and move the float. If there is no resistance on the two wires it is faulty.

I recall the resistance  as somewhere between 133 and 23 ohms. I think full is the higher


David Fletcher
136 Augusta
Blue Mountain


-------- Original message --------
From: Guy Knight
Date:2014-08-20 4:24 AM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Forward Water Tank Hatch and VDO Waterlevel Sensor

Hi,

I have 2 Questions,

1 -  On the top of the water tank there is a large Red plastic inspection hatch with a large nut on top which is part of the same moulding. I'm trying to remove it but without luck and do not want to force it? Anyone have any suggestions as to how to open it with breaking it?

2 - One the same tank there is a VDO Depth sensor which 'should' give a level reading back on the switch panel by the navigators table. The sensor does not appear to work. I removed it, there does not appear to be any moving parts? I've checked that there is power going to the sensor. If I switch the cables round the sensor says the tank is 100% full even if the tank is not and the other way it is 100% empty even though there is some water in the tank? - Does anyone have any ideas?

Guy

(Oceanis 411 1999)  

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Guy Knight

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Aug 20, 2014, 9:11:07 AM8/20/14
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David, 

Thanks for getting back, I'll check the resistance when I'm on the boat. There is no obvious moving float. There are two rods that descend from the 'sender' into the water, one white and one stainless steel about a cm apart. On the end there is a piece of white plastic that keeps the rods parallel. There is a similar white piece of plastic which I can move but its almost stuck and does not really look as though it moves. Would this be the 'float' or do you think there is something missing and fallen off?  Any ideas how to open the water tank cap so I can look inside to see if there is the 'missing' float?

By the way I think you responded to my notice of turning my 4 cabin boat to 3 cabin. Work is just about done, looks really good and now we have an en-suite and a larger cabin! All done for about £2.5k which is far cheaper than spending £100k on a newer/bigger boat!

Guy    

David Fletcher

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Aug 20, 2014, 9:41:00 AM8/20/14
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I think your right as I recall there are no moving paets4

Google VDO they make the sender

Guy Knight

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Aug 20, 2014, 9:48:41 AM8/20/14
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David,

Cheers, I've found the VDO in the US, I'm in the UK and am struggling to find them here but will keep looking

David Fletcher

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Aug 20, 2014, 9:55:10 AM8/20/14
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Just watch out for the difference impedances. There is a USA standard and a Euro. Beneteau uses the Euro. 

You can order a replacement from Beneteau USA or France. WEMA also make a nice replacement and it is made either impedance.

Df

Guy Knight

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Aug 20, 2014, 10:05:54 AM8/20/14
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David, Thanks for you help again, I'll lookup WEMA

Paul Schwab

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Aug 20, 2014, 10:48:12 AM8/20/14
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Guy Knight

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Aug 20, 2014, 10:56:58 AM8/20/14
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Paul Schwab

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Aug 20, 2014, 12:01:18 PM8/20/14
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Guy,

 

The tank monitoring system you have uses Capacitive (current flow) measurement vs. resistance. The metallic looking tube has another metallic tube inside it.  The plastic parts are used as a stiffener. 

 

The float systems we are used to rely on increase/decrease in resistance to move the gauge needle.  You can use a multi-meter to troubleshoot these systems.

 

Capacitive based systems measure the current flow between two plates through a liquid. The higher the liquid level, the higher the amount of current that can pass from plate-to-plate through the liquid.  There are no moving parts, it’s all in the circuitry.

 

From what I can tell, VDO is moving away from resistance based systems to capacitive systems. The VDO gauge you have is designed specifically to work with their capacitive sending unit.

 

This little bit of trivia doesn’t get you any closer to figuring out what is wrong with your system but you can stop using resistance based troubleshooting methods.  I don’t know how to troubleshoot a capacitive based system and didn’t even know they existed until this thread started.

 

Good luck.

 

Paul

David Fletcher

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Aug 20, 2014, 1:34:43 PM8/20/14
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Use one of your wood hull plugs and a rubber mallet


David Fletcher
136 Augusta
Blue Mountain


-------- Original message --------
From: nigel henry
Date:2014-08-20 12:39 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: RE: {Beneteau Owners} Forward Water Tank Hatch and VDO Waterlevel Sensor



From: gb...@hotmail.com
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: {Beneteau Owners} Forward Water Tank Hatch and VDO Waterlevel Sensor
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 17:11:49 +0 



Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 07:22:51 -0700
From: guyk...@mac.com

To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} Forward Water Tank Hatch and VDO Waterlevel Sensor

Hi, Thanks for the suggestions Ill try them out tonight!

Guy

On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:09:38 PM UTC+1, Marratu wrote:

I had to remove the hatch you are talking about. Mine was not opening easily as well. I used a channel lock pliers and tried to tighten it a bit at first and then backed up and
unscrewed it. There is a rubber O ring that sticks to the tread by tightening it at first it seems it helps. When you put the hatch back lubricate the O ring with Vaseline.
 
As for the sensor you might want to soak it in a mixture of vinegar and water see if the lime buildup is cleaned up it might works. You may have to replace it. 
 
Marengo B-49

David Fletcher

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Aug 20, 2014, 1:48:02 PM8/20/14
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Might explain why swapping my VDO for a WEMA did not help my problem

Thanks I thought I knew something and now I know l know nothing on this topic


David Fletcher
136 Augusta
Blue Mountain


-------- Original message --------
From: Paul Schwab
Date:2014-08-20 12:01 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: RE: {Beneteau Owners} Forward Water Tank Hatch and VDO Waterlevel Sensor

Guy,

 

The tank monitoring system you have uses Capacitive (current flow) measurement vs. resistance. The metallic looking tube has another metallic tube inside it.  The plastic parts are used as a stiffener. 

 

The float systems we are used to rely on increase/decrease in resistance to move the gauge needle.  You can use a multi-meter to troubleshoot these systems.

 

Capacitive based systems measure the current flow between two plates through a liquid. The higher the liquid level, the higher the amount of current that can pass from plate-to-plate through the liquid.  There are no moving parts, it’s all in the circuitry.

 

From what I can tell, VDO is moving away from resistance based systems to capacitive systems. The VDO gauge you have is designed specifically to work with their capacitive sending unit.

 

This little bit of trivia doesn’t get you any closer to figuring out what is wrong with your system but you can stop using resistance based troubleshooting methods.  I don’t know how to troubleshoot a capacitive based system and didn’t even know they existed until this thread started.

 

Good luck.

 

Paul

 

 

 

From: benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Guy Knight
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 9:57 AM
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} Forward Water Tank Hatch and VDO Waterlevel Sensor

 

Paul,

Guy


On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:48:12 PM UTC+1, Paul Schwab wrote:

From: benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Guy Knight
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 8:11 AM
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} Forward Water Tank Hatch and VDO Waterlevel Sensor

 

David, 

 

Thanks for getting back, I'll check the resistance when I'm on the boat. There is no obvious moving float. There are two rods that descend from the 'sender' into the water, one white and one stainless steel about a cm apart. On the end there is a piece of white plastic that keeps the rods parallel. There is a similar white piece of plastic which I can move but its almost stuck and does not really look as though it moves. Would this be the 'float' or do you think there is something missing and fallen off?  Any ideas how to open the water tank cap so I can look inside to see if there is the 'missing' float?

 

By the way I think you responded to my notice of turning my 4 cabin boat to 3 cabin. Work is just about done, looks really good and now we have an en-suite and a larger cabin! All done for about £2.5k which is far cheaper than spending £100k on a newer/bigger boat!

 

Guy    


On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:41:55 PM UTC+1, Fletch wrote:

The sender works off of the ground side. There is no power. Take an ohm meter and move the float. If there is no resistance on the two wires it is faulty.

 

I recall the resistance  as somewhere between 133 and 23 ohms. I think full is the higher

 

 

David Fletcher

136 Augusta

Blue Mountain

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Guy Knight

Date:2014-08-20 4:24 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Forward Water Tank Hatch and VDO Waterlevel Sensor

Jeffrey Schwartz

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Aug 20, 2014, 3:43:31 PM8/20/14
to benetea...@googlegroups.com

get the WEMA brand, they are the best.

 

 

Jeffrey Schwartz

George Harris

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Aug 20, 2014, 4:03:53 PM8/20/14
to benetea...@googlegroups.com
My alternator died and I am looking for a reasonably priced rebuilt unit or a recommend on a rebuilder that can ship one without a core...
The westerbeke part # is 43593 but I can't cross ref with anything cheaper than $500 from API

Any help is appreciated
George Harris aboard Sophia on Block Island

Sailing

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Aug 20, 2014, 7:04:13 PM8/20/14
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George
Take it to your local auto alternator shop. They can rewind it or better yet they probably have one on the shelf. Did mine cost less than $80. 


Joe Sircely
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ume...@comcast.net

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Aug 25, 2014, 12:58:24 PM8/25/14
to beneteau-owners
On the underside is a part # visible. If it reads 02 240 401, than it is the capacitive 4 to 20 mA version. The replacement part number is 226 - 453. You see two terminals on top of the sending unit. "G" and "I". "G" is not for GROUND. "G" is the positive wire from your instrument."I" should go to battery negative. You only calibrate when the tank is full. Low is given because sensor should clear bottom by 10 mm minimum or 15 mm maximum or whatever you want your low level. 
When you push the button for your respective tank, you should read 12VDC on "G" and "I". Because the current is very low, clean contacts are imperative. If the contact looks clean, may be the crimp is not. Strip the wire and re crimp. This is a good place for conductive paste too. Remember, you may have voltage but no current if the resistance is too high. To move the needle on a analog/needle gauge, you need force/power, so you need voltage and current. I'm just trying to explain in easy words. Capacitive sensors are typically chosen because the are very reliable. No moving parts as a earlier member stated.
Defender carries VDO sensing units.

             Uwe Mewes
                   45f5
        Heaven Can Wait 

From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <jeff...@comcast.net>
To: "beneteau-owners" <benetea...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:43:28 PM
Subject: RE: {Beneteau Owners} Forward Water Tank Hatch and VDO Waterlevel Sensor
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