Basic Battery Charging Question

[Matt]

I'm embarrassed to ask this but you're all so nice I figured I'd do it
anyway...

I've got a fancy battery charger on my First 310 and a total of three
batteries with a standard 3-way 12-volt start/house/off switch. I
assume the charger works when my AC shore power is plugged in and the
AC breaker for the charger is on. Here's my question:

What position should the 3-way 12-volt switch be in to charge all my
batteries while connected to AC shore power?

Thanks!

-Matt

[Larry Cohan]

Matt, chargers are *usually* connected directly to the batteries and
bypass the 1-2-both switch. So you can leave the switch in the off
position and your charger should charge each bank independently.
BYMMV.

Larry

[Bill Jarvis]

Matt,

It all depends on how your charger was hooked up. If done correctly, with
the charger connected directly to the batteries, the position of the switch
doesn't matter.

Bill

> --
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> 11:11 AM
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[Mike Ordun]

Matt,

My 361 used to have a pair of batteries -- a 4D and Group 27. The 4D was
always charged regardless of switch position. The Group 27 was charged via
two paths. If it's battery switch were on it got charged via the current
being directed to the 4D, but it was also directly connected to the Echo
Charge outlet of the charger so it was charging even with the switch
off. Bottom line is that you are best tracing wires and making a diagram
to figure out exactly how it is all connected. This is particularly
important if anyone has ever done work on the boat *upgrading* the charging
system or adding batteries.

Mike Ordun
ABYC Marine Electrical Certified
s/v insanity B361

[Uwe Mewes]

When I'm on shore power - our batteries will be charged regardless of switch
position. That's because the charger is wired directly to the batteries.
Take a close look at the wires which are connected to your batteries. You
will see heavy gauge wires and some what "smaller" wires. The "smaller"
wires typically go straight to your charger.

Uwe Mewes
F305
Heaven Can Wait

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt...@gmail.com>
To: "Beneteau Owners" <Benetea...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 3:24 PM
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Basic Battery Charging Question

>

[Matt]

Thanks to all who responded! -Matt

[Randy Rohrbeck]

Matt

I'd second what others have said about tracing the wires.

Normally I'd say the batteries would be charged no matter what the position
of the switch, however, I believe the factory F310 configuration is 2
batteries under the companionway steps and the three red and black switches
inside the quarter berth.

At least that's how mine is so I'd guess your's has been modified.

Randy

-----Original Message-----
From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 2:25 PM
To: Beneteau Owners
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Basic Battery Charging Question

[Brian Mikiten]

Randy -

What are the switches in your aft bunk and their functions?

Brian
F305 Due South

[RICK-DAMICO]

I too have a battery charging question.

When I check the water in my batteries, I have to disconnect the wires, and
I'm not sure if I'm putting them back right. I have 4 batteries, three
house and one starter. The starter is in front of the motor, the house
under the rear birth, and two additional house batteries in the cockpit
locker. The house battery under the rear birth is the only one that has the
smaller wires.

Are the smaller wires - which on mine are red - connected to the positive or
negative terminal? I have them connected to the positive terminal, but my
charge monitor usually shows me a 99.7 % charge.

Rick D'Amico
"Airtime"
B-323
San Diego/Phoenix

[Bill Jarvis]

Rick,

The red wire from the charger should be connected to the positive terminal
of the battery. There should be a heavy red wire from your battery under the
rear berth connected to the positive terminal of the house bank in the
locker, and a heavy black wire going to the negative of the other two as
well.

Bill

[Randy Rohrbeck]

Brian,

Instead of the three way switch that Matt was describing I believe most
Beneteau of the First 310 era came with three separate switches, one red and
two black in color or it could be one black and two red, I not sure which.
The way you turn the handles determines if the switches are on or off.

One turns the complete system on/off, the other two, in my case since I only
have two batteries, turn the individual batteries on and off.

Randy

-----Original Message-----
From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Mikiten
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 7:28 PM
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Basic Battery Charging Question

[Mike Ordun]

My Beneteau has three separate switches; two are red the other black.  Each red switch controls the positive side of each battery.  The black switch controls a master ground or negative.  This kind of arrangement is common on most Beneteaus.

What you really have to do is look at your battery system in 3 different ways:

• How it is going to work while away from shore-power and without the engine running; this may include the use of an inverter.
• How things are going to work with respect to charging while the engine is running.
• How shore-power charging is going to work.

I cannot emphasis enough the need to have accurate diagrams of the system to really understand how it is all connected and *supposed* to work.  If any work has ever been done on the electrical system this is even more important.

[Mark Stillwell]

Does anyone have experience flying a spinnaker on a B331?

 

I'm thinking of adding a asymmetrical spinnaker to Dragonfly. I have block on the ring at the top of the mast...above the jib halyard.

 

I currently have the spinnaker halyard coming out of the mast about a foot below the jib halyard. I use it as a safety halyard when going up the mast in a bosun chair and to support a rain cover over the front hatches.

 

I'm on Mark Twain Lake in Missouri so my purpose is to learn to use the spinnaker. I won't have long down wind runs. I'm wondering if I could fly a spinnaker from the present location of the spinnaker halyard. I've found several used ones for about $500. I'm wondering about making a bridle between the two bow cleats as an anchor point for the tack of the sail.

 

I'm also wandering how to run the spinnaker sheet to the winch. Do I run it directly or through a block mounted somewhere? Maybe the stern cleats?

 

Thanks for your advice.

 

Mark & Suzanne
"Dragonfly" B331
http://home.att.net/~dragonflyb331/

[Brian Mikiten]

This is a bit OT but I was looking for some advice on a March 4-6 day
vacation. I'm planning on taking my family four to a tropical getaway
but can't seem to decide which of the many options make the most
sense. We want something with the traditional blue waters, white
sand, etc but don't need a lot of shopping or fanciness. We won't be
sailing but flying but would like to be able to consider a short
cruise while we are there. I thought this would make a good intro
before considering a more extensive trip. Any success stories?

TIA

Brian

[Robert Lucchetti]

Mark:

 

Re: an Asymmetrical

 

1. Spinnaker halyard a must

2. Need a block at base of mast

3. Need to add line organizer on port cabin top in parallel with what you have on the sb side

4. You can tack at the bow rail or anchor sprit

5. Need snatch blocks aft

6. Need winch on port side.

7. Some shock cord to keep the blocks off the deck, attached to the life lines

 

That should cover it. Yes you do need the sail also.

 

Without cost of sail, allowing for what is on your boat, expect to spend ~$1,000.

 

Well worth the expense.

 

Bob L

oc321/Latitudes/Chicago

Mark Stillwell <still...@att.net> wrote:

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[Neal Lindeman]

Mark,

I too have a 331 and am asking myself the same questions. The halyard should
run from the masthead block into the mast slot and down inside the mast
exiting near the goose neck.

I plan to buy an asymetrical as it will be more usefull in a wider range of
wind angles. I will buy the dousing sock which I will also use between
tacks. I should be able to use a single sheet and bring it and the sail
around the front for the forestay.

The sheet can run all the way to the back of the toe rail where there is
about a 6" slot. The end of the slot has a small roller from where the sheet
can be run back forward to the winch. Or, spend the $80 and get a proper
snap block attached to the tor rail.

I have flown true spinnakers on previous boats and just as soon not mess
with the pole = it makes the crew of one nervious. The idea of flying a big
blooper is more appealing.

I have not priced used 'A' sails, but the price of a new one with the dodads
is a couple of grand$.

Neal Lindeman

>From: "Mark Stillwell" <still...@att.net>
>Reply-To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
>To: <Benetea...@googlegroups.com>

_________________________________________________________________
Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series.  Who will win?
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://davevscarl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001

[Matt]

My 1992 First 310 also has three seperate switches. One black (main
ground) and two red, one for house and one for starter. I've created a
web site with photos (including one of these switches) and other
information I'm collecting specific to my First 310 if anyone is
interested... it's still a work in progress. You can view it at
http://coconut.ereidy.com/

-Matt

[Uwe Mewes]

Matt,

Nice job.

Uwe Mewes
F305
Heaven Can Wait

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt" <matt...@gmail.com>
To: "Beneteau Owners" <Benetea...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 4:00 PM
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Basic Battery Charging Question

>

[Scott]

why not use a ATN tacker

 

 

http://www.atninc.com/

[Ivars]

...because Chute Scoop is about half the cost or less and works as good.  ATN is nice but at a premium.   Both work well. 

 

[RICK-DAMICO]

My 323 will be one year old next week. I have about 40 hours on the motor.
The boat has operated flawlessly the first 12 months. My service people are
recommending an oil change and haul out for inspection as part of annual
maintenance. Is that pretty typical?

[Brian Mikiten]

Has anyone had direct experience with the Tacker? I've looked at one several times. Is it too simple to be true? <G>

Brian

[Bill Jarvis]

It's normal to do an oil change at 50 hrs or once per year. It would seem
that you're just about due for one.

Bill

[Brian Mikiten]

I wanted to replace the compass behind the wheel (on the pedestal) on
my F305. Does anyone know the specs? I think the one installed is a
Plastimo.

Brian

[Jim Martin]

Yes on the oil change. Consider a synthetic oil. I would say no on a haul out. If the boat's in San Diego the water should be warm enough for a quick dive without scuba. That should suffice to check for hull damage, premature blisters, etc.

Jim
32s5 Aquila
_ _

Jim Martin

Peachtree Laser, Inc.

404-352-2565

email: mailto:ptl...@bellsouth.net

website: peachtreelaser.com

[Ivars]

The ATN Tacker is a sleve that wraps around a furled head sail.    Parrell beads is another form of the same thing at lower cost.  The beads are about golf ball size and strung on a piece of wire.  Their function is to keep the tack of a asym spinnaker on the centerline of the boat for better performance.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Mikiten

To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

Sent: 1/8/2007 10:22:27 PM

Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Spinnaker on a B331

[pegasu...@aol.com]

Oil change and various filter changes are appropiate,

But I question the value of a Haul out, unless you want the bottom power washed.

Joe/Pegasus

 

 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: rick-...@cox.net
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 9:21 PM
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} haul out?

---

Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

[Rick Donovan]

I have always used a Tacker on our asymmetric spinnakers. I also recommend the ATN sleeve because of its fiberglass mouth, particularly for larger sails. A smaller boat may get away with out the ATN but a big sail with any pressure in it at all will cause the other designs without a “bell” to collapse and make it difficult to haul the sock down over the sail when you really need it.  

 

I would recommend the use on any asymmetrical chute particularly when tight reaching because it keeps the luff of the sail from falling off to leeward and will help make the sail easier to fly in light wind or in choppy sea conditions. We have ours shackled to the tack of the sail with a quick pin so it is very easy to connect when setting up the sail. Someone else reported using the Tacker with a symmetrical chute but I am not sure that is a good option to eliminate the spin pole. I don’t think the sail would fly very well and you lose the advantage of pulling the tack of the sail out to windward allowing you to sail further off the wind as you could using the spin pole.

 

 

Rick Donovan

Biddeford, Maine

Beneteau 473 #29

Turn the Page

 

 

[know...@mindspring.com]

On 1/7/07, "Mark Stillwell" <still...@att.net>

> . . . .[for] flying a spinnaker on a B331 . . . .

> I'm wondering about making a bridle between the
> two bow cleats as an anchor point for the tack
> of the sail.

While I recognize that some do this, you might want to verify whether you
have an older or newer B331, i.e., one made before or after B's limited
recall of earlier versions to fix the design flaw that, for some,
necessitated reinforcement of the glass and bolts/nuts for the anchor
roller assembly and/or replacement by a newer/stronger anchor roller than
on earlier made boats of that model.

As for the separate issue of the kind of sail itself, if cost is a not a
major factor or is a consideration less important than performance
including ease of use, you might want to consider Doyle's "UPS" or a like
maker's comparable self-furling alternatives.

[Po...@aol.com]

COULD YOU AT SOMETIME IF POSSIBLE SEND A PHOTO OF YOUR TACK ATTACHMENT  AFTER LAST MONTHS CONVERSATIONS ABOUT ANCHOR ROLLER MOUNTING I'M CURIOUS HOW THE BLOCK ETC LAY     THANK YOU

 

LEE VAN VALKENBURG

B-331/282

WINDPLAYER

[Islander...@aol.com]

In a message dated 01/08/07 9:22:09 P.M. Central Standard Time, rick-...@cox.net writes:

My 323 will be one year old next week.  I have about 40 hours on the motor.
The boat has operated flawlessly the first 12 months.  My service people are
recommending an oil change and haul out for inspection as part of annual
maintenance.  Is that pretty typical?

Rick D'Amico
"Airtime"
B-323
San Diego/Phoenix

YES

 

Dean Saul
2I8 Bahama s/v Chuchote
Grand Pappy Marina
Lake Texoma /)

[Stewart Richardson]

Apart from providing more control over the spinnaker by allowing you to alter the height of the tack , they also keep the side loads of the pulpit caused by the spinnaker tack line.

 

I have three versions, The parallel beads from Neil Pryde, I find put excessive stress on the Genoa furling track and I stopped using them.

 

The ATN Tacker, which I think is a much better solution, spreads the load on the forestay a lot more and I don’t see the drastic bending that the beads caused.

 

I also received a version from North Sails for Christmas along with one of there awesome Gennaker bags. The north version is a simply canvas strap but I can keep it attached to the tack of the sail in the sail bag which is cool, hopefully now my crew wontt mix up the tack and the clew again J

 

 

Regards

 

Stewart

Seattle WA

---

From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ivars
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 6:01 AM
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Spinnaker on a B331

[Ted Weitz]

You lucky San Diegan to be able to ask that question.  My 323 has been on the hard since early November. 

tm...@columbia.edu

[Michael]

My First 305 is home ported in Ventura, CA and I have never had an annual
haul-out for any reason. I only haul to re-paint the bottom - around here
that's between 24 and 30 months. So I would say that a haul-out is
unnecessary. You probably have a diver regularly clean your hull and
replace the zincs as required. If not hire a diver to check your zincs or do
it yourself if you like swimming in harbor water. A haul-out at this time is
only for the benefit of the yard.

As stated in a previous email the rule-of-thumb for oil changes is 1 year or
50 hours. I'd say there is no big hurry, but you may want to change the oil
soon.

Michael

[Scott]

Haul out?  why not get a diver to check the zinc and bottom?

Islander...@aol.com wrote:

---

Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Scott]

Chute scoop holds the Tack?

Ivars <dbg...@mindspring.com> wrote:

---

Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

[Ivars]

Chute Scoop is the "sock".    Need to go to their web page to see what they are using to hold the tack on center line.  The beads work nicely for a low cost solution.  I haven't seen any ill effects from using the beads over 10 years.

 

[Dan....@carrier.utc.com]

Let me throw in something else here. What is your opinion:

 

If pole storage and handling were not a problem, which type of spinnaker sail would you people choose: symmetrical or asymmetrical? Which one allows sailing deeper / higher? What are the advantages of either? Again, please do not go into pole storage and handling.

 

Thanks,

Dan

 

[RICK-DAMICO]

I have a diving service, scrub the bottom, and check the zincs once a month, once every five weeks in the winter.

 

I really don't know what the haul out would be for except to check for any damage.

 

Rick D'Amico
"Airtime"
B-323
San Diego/Phoenix

[Bill Jarvis]

Dan,

 

The asym. is simpler to rig sail and gybe.

 

The Symetric sails deeper  but has more control lines.

 

There is no simple choice. I have sailed both either crrewed or single handed. Both are possible but sailing a poled spinnaker single handed requires much more thought inhow to set, gybe and perhaps most importantly douse.

 

You need to think through what you want from the sail and then make your choice.

 

Bill

----- Original Message -----

From: Dan....@carrier.utc.com

To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:01 PM

Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Spinnaker on a B331

[Scott]

I would use a asymetrical for cruising and short handed sailing.  I work the mast on a SC 70 with a Sym Spinnaker and it takes lot people to fly the chute properly.  Setting up and doing a dip pole gybe is sporting in heavy weather.  I also crew on a J-109 and the Asy chute is clip-clip hoist easy

 

When I get a chute for my B343 it will be a asy or gennaker

 

If the pic goes through I'm on USA 66

Bill Jarvis <bjar...@suddenlink.net> wrote:

---

Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

[Scott]

another B343 owner I know had the boat surveyed before the warranty was up to address any issues with the boat

RICK-DAMICO <rick-...@cox.net> wrote:

---

The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

[Bill Jarvis]

Scott,

 

That is what what I wasa alluding to.

 

Bill

---

[Rick Donovan]

Dan

 

If your sailing is for fun, cruising and you are looking for a sail to extend your sailing time before turning the engine on when going downwind and you have little or no experience with a spinnaker, the asymmetrical form of that sail will probably be your best bet. If you have spent time on your past boats or others boats while sailing with a symmetrical spinnaker and understand all that is involved to hoist one, you probably wouldn’t be asking this question in the first place, (that is my guess of course).

 

I have 20 years or more of racing boats with both types of spinnakers and I chose an asymmetrical chute for our 473. The bottom line for me was that we tend to sail short handed, as a couple, and cruise most of the time. I don’t want the all the hassles of a symmetrical chute under those circumstances. If we regularly sailed with more crew or I raced this boat more, I would have set it up for a symmetrical chute. I believe the symmetrical has advantages over the asymmetrical chute at deeper wind angles. Sailing more than 120-130 degree’s true wind direction will be difficult at best with the asymmetrical chute regardless of what the sales brochures tell you. The reason is that it is very difficult to get the sail out from behind the shadow of the main sail when at those wind angles. There are building methods/designs of putting extra sail area into the top of the sail and allowing that to rotate out in front of the boat that help, but that sail will not reach very well. This then forces you to choose a second reaching cut sail to cover the full wind range.

 

I basically agree with Bill Jarvis when he said:

>>>The asym. is simpler to rig sail and gybe.

 

The Symetric sails deeper  but has more control lines.

 

There is no simple choice. I have sailed both either crrewed or single handed. Both are possible but sailing a poled spinnaker single handed requires much more thought inhow to set, gybe and perhaps most importantly douse.

 

You need to think through what you want from the sail and then make your choice.<<<

 

This is something that you need to think about carefully before spending the money a spinnaker and its related gear will cost you only to find out that you don’t use it because of some unforeseen hassle. It is my belief that for most folks an asymmetrical spinnaker/gennaker is the way to go, particularly if you don’t have a lot of experience with spinnakers in general. They are pretty easy to set up so that fact alone will get you using it more often and build on your sailing experience. Most folks and cruisers in particular don’t use the spinnaker except for “play time”. I don’t mean to criticize cruisers here; I only mention this because their priorities are different than a racer will be.

 

For performance, on many boats the symmetrical will ultimately be a better choice but is definitely not a sail for short handed crew without experience with one. They can be very intimidating until you use one for a while, then the decision on which one to choose will be closer because of your experience.  As others have stated, lots of strings to keep adjusted on a symmetrical sail mostly because of the control lines for the spinnaker pole. For all but the most experienced sailors, I believe that a minimum of 3 sets of capable hands are needed to sail with the symmetrical spinnaker, 4 would be even better. Once the sail is up and trimmed, things become easier until it is time to take the sail down then you might be wishing you had 4,5 or even more sets of hands, lol, but it can be done with practice. Yes, it can be flown by single handers but it certainly should not be a beginner trying to do that without expecting to get him/herself into big trouble with no easy way out.

 

 

Rick Donovan

Biddeford, Maine

Beneteau 473 #29

Turn the Page

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan....@carrier.utc.com
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:02 PM
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Spinnaker on a B331

 

Let me throw in something else here. What is your opinion:

[Larry Cohan]

You really nailed that analysis, Rick. That sums up the options really
well. Good job.

Larry

[Paul in San Diego]

Hello Rick,

I only haul out when the bottom needs new paint. Your diver should
alert you to any significant problems (but they can miss things
underwater). Who are your service people? Contact me off-line if you
want to discuss further (e-mail or phone).

Paul Nierman
B-323 Pandemonium
San Diego
pauln...@pacbell.net

[Rob R]

Due to the price of marine diesels, the oil change is a must. I would
recommend doing it at less than 50 hours if you can. I change my oil
about 2 times a year (boat is always in water) and I figure that
equates to about once every 20-25 hours or so. I am more concerned
about the soot, water, and acids that can build up rather than the
viscosity of the oil.

With the introduction of Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low_sulfur_diesel ), we go from 500
PPM to 15 PPM of sulfur, so there's less chance for sulfuric acid to
build up in the oil. Regardless, twice a year is cheap insurance that
your oil will be clean and the engine will be in tip top shape. If you
pick up an Oil Boy from West Marine, you can do the whole thing
yourself in 20 min or less.

Also, adding a little Bio Diesel to your fuel blend ( < 20%) will keep
the injectors and fuel system slightly better lubed - good for long
term cleanliness and wear.

Good Luck -

Rob

[Larry Cohan]

Rob R wrote:

I change my oil
about 2 times a year (boat is always in water) and I figure that
equates to about once every 20-25 hours or so. I am more concerned
about the soot, water, and acids that can build up rather than the
viscosity of the oil.
  

Question, Rob.  How does that equate to truckers and farmers who have diesel engines?  Do they change that often too?

Larry

[Rob R]

I don't think it does equate, due to the types of uses. Truckers are
running those engines on a daily basis and getting the oil up to
operating temperature, which is enough to boil off the condensed water
in the hot areas of the engine. A diesel truck also has a huge quantity
of oil as I recall, from 10 - 19 quarts right? A Penta, w/3 quarts of
oil, will sit for a week or two at a time without running. Bad for the
engine, bad for the oil.

R

[Scott]

My VW Jetta TDI get a oil change every 10K as recommended.  So at an avg of 50 mph its every 200 hours.  Synthetic oil only

Larry Cohan <la...@cohan.org> wrote:

---

It's here! Your new message!
Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

[Bob]

Anyone one else seen this story?

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/01/weird_tales_of_the_sea.php

 

Wow!

                 Bob 
         S/V Our Dream
'97 Beneteau Oceanis 351 #195
   Slip C-17, Castle Harbor Marina
     Chester River  Kent Island
           Chester, MD
             _/)__/)__/)_

[Rob R]

Scott - love your choice of ground transport.

I also have Jettas - (2) 2006 TDI's, both running 10,000 mi Oil Change
Intervals with full synthetic. One has 505.01 oil. the other is on
506.01. Both cars on B20 and occasional power service. All of our
weekly transport is diesel at this point, and all of it is done on some
bio diesel.

I am running convential oil (Valvoline that meets Volvo's latest
standard) in the Penta 2002. I've been thinking about switching to
synthetic, but I'm afraid it's overkill down here with our warm
weather, especially since I change it out frequently. What do you
think?

Best Regards,

Rob

[Scott]

I don't know if yanmar recommends synthetic oils - in my TDI I use Shell Rotella 15-40

 

Have you been to Freds TDI site?

Rob R <robr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

---

Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

[Rob R]

Yup - was just there today as a matter of fact. What year is your TDI?

[Ca...@aol.com]

In a message dated 1/13/2007 6:26:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, robr...@yahoo.com writes:

With the introduction of Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low_sulfur_diesel ), we go from 500
PPM to 15 PPM of sulfur, so there's less chance for sulfuric acid to
build up in the oil.

The ULSD is used in cars and trucks, but generally not in marine applications. It is more expensive to refine. The marine diesel around Chesapeake Bay, at least in the West River, is high sulfur and as everywhere else, a different color than regular diesel fuel. The red (I think) colored fuel for road use includes highway taxes not charged to marine users.

[Dan....@carrier.utc.com]

Rick and others,
 
You are quite correct in everything you say. When I initially asked the question of the group, I really wanted the advice on the sail performance differences, not necessarily the handling issues.

 
I notice however that everyone who answered couldn't resist from going into the handling issues. This pretty much confirms what I suspected before: symmetrical spinnakers are superior to asymmetrical, however more complicated to handle. An exception to this could be reaching in light airs, although a large genoa would cover this situation quite well, I think. I have also noticed that people seem to be concerned with the pole handling, perhaps more so than the handling of the sail itself. That's easy to understand, I've seen a guy carrying a pole on the foredeck who lost balance and the inboard end went right through an expensive mainsail. I'm sure the skipper didn't see the funny side. In the end, it seems to me people choose an asymmetrical sail for the ease of handling and live with the deficiencies. That's fair enough, we have furling mains for the same reason.

 
As you say, symmetrical spinnakers can be used by single handers, although that can easily lead to big trouble. I have some (very limited) experience with this type of sail on a 36' offshore racing boat and still believe that it can be handled well by a cruising couple, providing that the autopilot is working and the sail has a dousing sock. Similarly, gybing can be done the 'granny' way, what's the hurry in a cruising situation? I'd say the key would be not to leave taking the sail down until the wind pipes up too much and not to fly it at night.

 
Dan

  _____ 

From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Donovan
Sent: Friday, 12 January 2007 20:17
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Spinnaker on a B331

Dan

 

If your sailing is for fun, cruising and you are looking for a sail to extend your sailing time before turning the engine on when going downwind and you have little or no experience with a spinnaker, the asymmetrical form of that sail will probably be your best bet. If you have spent time on your past boats or others boats while sailing with a symmetrical spinnaker and understand all that is involved to hoist one, you probably wouldn t be asking this question in the first place, (that is my guess of course).

 

I have 20 years or more of racing boats with both types of spinnakers and I chose an asymmetrical chute for our 473. The bottom line for me was that we tend to sail short handed, as a couple, and cruise most of the time. I don t want the all the hassles of a symmetrical chute under those circumstances. If we regularly sailed with more crew or I raced this boat more, I would have set it up for a symmetrical chute. I believe the symmetrical has advantages over the asymmetrical chute at deeper wind angles. Sailing more than 120-130 degree s true wind direction will be difficult at best with the asymmetrical chute regardless of what the sales brochures tell you. The reason is that it is very difficult to get the sail out from behind the shadow of the main sail when at those wind angles. There are building methods/designs of putting extra sail area into the top of the sail and allowing that to rotate out in front of the boat that help, but that sail will not reach very well. This then forces you to choose a second reaching cut sail to cover the full wind range.

[Scott]

03 wagon 112K

tdi club name - puyalluptdi

no major problems with the car,

 

alternator pulley froze up and spun off (only time car has been to the dealer for service)

 

timing belt done at 95K

 

intermittent glow plug issue

 

 

 

Rob R <robr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Yup - was just there today as a matter of fact. What year is your TDI?

---

Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

[Scott]

03 wagon 112K

tdi club name - puyalluptdi

no major problems with the car,

 

alternator pulley froze up and spun off (only time car has been to the dealer for service)

 

timing belt done at 95K

 

intermittent glow plug issue

 

 

 

Rob R <robr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Yup - was just there today as a matter of fact. What year is your TDI?

[Scott]

where are you at San Diego?

Rob R <robr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Yup - was just there today as a matter of fact. What year is your TDI?

[Ca...@aol.com]

In a message dated 1/16/2007 3:53:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, Dan....@carrier.utc.com writes:

Rick and others,

You are quite correct in everything you say. When I initially asked the question of the group, I really wanted the advice on the sail performance differences, not necessarily the handling issues.

There is an aspect of standard spinnakers, particularly for small boats, that is sadly missing; The pole!

I recall an incident on Millerton Lake near Fresno, CA, a (large) number of years ago where the pole on a 16' day-sailor was used to excellent effect on an abusive skipper by his wife. She was applauded by all who watched. As I recall, the pole was not damaged at all by the thwacking she inflicted.

Cap in MD

[Labones]

And I thought I was the only diesel freak, as my wife calls me, I just picked up a 06 jetta TDI making this my fourth VW diesel and this is the nicest one yet

 

Terry and Amanda

Marie Claire OC381

lab...@comcast.net

---

From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott

Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:32 AM
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.</a

[Scott]

I'm going to run mine to 300K (I hope)

Labones <lab...@comcast.net> wrote:

[Merrill Mant]

Not so sure I follow how a haul out discussion ends up in a VW string but I
will weigh in with our new Smart car Diesel - 40 HP 50 to 60 MPG compared to
the Yanmar 56HP!
Merrill

>From: Scott <ipac...@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
>To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: haul out?
>Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:16:41 -0800 (PST)
>
>I'm going to run mine to 300K (I hope)
>
>Labones <lab...@comcast.net> wrote: And I thought I was the
>only diesel freak, as my wife calls me, I just picked up a 06 jetta TDI
>making this my fourth VW diesel and this is the nicest one yet
> Terry and Amanda
> Marie Claire OC381
> lab...@comcast.net
>

> ---------------------------------

> From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
>[mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott
>Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:32 AM
>To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: haul out?
>
> 03 wagon 112K
>
> tdi club name - puyalluptdi
>
> no major problems with the car,
>
>
>
> alternator pulley froze up and spun off (only time car has been to the
>dealer for service)
>
>
>
> timing belt done at 95K
>
>
>
> intermittent glow plug issue
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Rob R <robr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Yup - was just there today as a matter of fact. What year is your TDI?
>
>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a PS3 game guru.
>Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo!
>Games.</a
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>---------------------------------

>The fish are biting.
>Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
>>

_________________________________________________________________
Your opinion matters. Please tell us what you think and be entered into a
draw for a grand prize of $500 or one of 20 $50 cash prizes.
http://www.youthographyinsiders.com/R.aspx?a=116

[Denny Wertheimer]

Years ago and several lists back, a group of guys decided that in the winter time, it was okay to stretch the thread so to speak to incorporate all kinds if things, it keeps the sailing blues at bay and reminds us all of warmer climes and warmer times ahead. There are a few of us older listers still around, so bad habits will die hard. Put up with us for a few more weeks and i gurontee you won't hear much of jetta's ,it will be more like jettee's, see how they appear simililar.
keep warm and keep the electric flowing.
so far Michele and I haven't so much as lost an electron through the ice storms, this time around
From your " fearless leader"

[Noble, Milner E.]

Yes, there were quite a few "off thread" conversations back then...  :-)

--Milner

[Labones]

It may be sooner then we think no ice on the big lake so far this year that I’ve seen

 

Terry and Amanda

 

lab...@comcast.net

---

<br

[Matt Avila]

1997 Passat TDI with  close to 130 K.  Close to zero maintenance...  tires, brakes, timing belt (once).  I am a little surpised the iriginal clutch is fine.  45 + MPG.  Almost traded it out for a Beetle TDI a while back

Cheers,
Matt
B473
Ohana O Kai

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott
Sent: Jan 16, 2007 12:16 PM
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: haul out?

I'm going to run mine to 300K (I hope)

Labones <lab...@comcast.net> wrote:

And I thought I was the only diesel freak, as my wife calls me, I just picked up a 06 jetta TDI making this my fourth VW diesel and this is the nicest one yet

 

Terry and Amanda

Marie Claire OC381

lab...@comcast.net

---

From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott

Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:32 AM
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: haul out?

 

03 wagon 112K

tdi club name - puyalluptdi

no major problems with the car,

 

alternator pulley froze up and spun off (only time car has been to the dealer for service)

 

timing belt done at 95K

 

intermittent glow plug issue

 

 

 

Rob R <robr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Yup - was just there today as a matter of fact. What year is your TDI?

Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.</a

[Dean Forbis]

Unless it fits in the lazerette or anchor locker how 'bout taking it off line... or at least changing the thread name so those us that don't care will delete and ignore.

 

So am I the "old" curmudgeon on the list now?  :-)

 

 

Dean

[Labones]

Yeah it’ll go back to sailing soon

 

Terry and Amanda

On B line since 99

 

 

lab...@comcast.net

---

<BR<BR

[Bill Jarvis]

Not a chance Dean.

 

Bill

[Howell Cooper]

Terry,

Which big lake?

 

Howell Cooper

Why Knot

Port Aransas, Texas

[Labones]

Lake Huron southern tip we sail out of Sarnia Ont Canada

 

lab...@comcast.net

---

From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Howell Cooper

Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:39 PM
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

[RICK-DAMICO]

Thanks for all your responses on the haul out question. Original e mail
below, so I'm not guilty for the deviation! But I really did enjoy the
discussion on the VW's!

By the way, I decided to do what most of you do, haul out every other year
when I have the bottom re-done.

Does 200 bucks for the oil change sound reasonable?

Rick D'Amico
"Airtime"
B-323
San Diego/Phoenix

----- Original Message -----
From: "RICK-DAMICO" <rick-...@cox.net>
To: <Benetea...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 8:21 PM
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} haul out?

>
> My 323 will be one year old next week. I have about 40 hours on the
> motor. The boat has operated flawlessly the first 12 months. My service
> people are recommending an oil change and haul out for inspection as part
> of annual maintenance. Is that pretty typical?
>
> Rick D'Amico
> "Airtime"
> B-323
> San Diego/Phoenix
>
>
> >
>

[Randy Rohrbeck]

Does 200 bucks for the oil change sound reasonable?

I've never paid to have mine changed, so I'm not sure what the going rate
is. However, if that's all they're doing, it seems like quite a lot.

Why not buy an oil changer, get the filter, and do it yourself. It's not
complicated or time consuming and you can drink your favorite beverage while
you're doing it.

Randy

-----Original Message-----
From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of RICK-DAMICO
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:04 AM
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

[Bob]

Randy,
The first year we owned "Our Dream" I paid Q-Lube to do the oil, filter and
fuel filter (2) change so I could observe.
I supplied all the filters. If I recall it was under $60. Certainly not
near $200.
OBTW this was in Annapolis, MD. I did catch Q-Lube on my dock doing work on
a neighbors boat, maybe that had some effect on the price but not $140. It
was worth for the training lesson I've done all my own changes since.

Just checked my records it was Primary and Secondary fuel filters and it was
$30 on 5/13/2000 with me supplying the filters.

Bob
S/V Our Dream
'97 Beneteau Oceanis 351 #195
Slip C-17, Castle Harbor Marina
Chester River Kent Island
Chester, MD
_/)__/)__/)_

[RICK-DAMICO]

I guess while I'm still under warranty, I thought having them do it was a
good idea.

However, another great idea is the part about the beverage, I like that,
especially if its an "adult" beverage!

By the way, I'll be sailing tomorrow and Friday in Sunny San Diego..(highs
will be in the 60's)

Rick D'Amico
"Airtime"
B-323
San Diego/Phoenix

----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Rohrbeck" <rsroh...@swbell.net>
To: <Benetea...@googlegroups.com>

[pegasu...@aol.com]

I think $200 for an oil change and new filter is excessive.  Definetely less than an hours work....actuallly for someone familar with boats probably 30 minutes is more than enough.

Joe

 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: rick-...@cox.net
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:03 AM
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: haul out?

---

Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

[pegasu...@aol.com]

Another thought.  $200 is a price that the facillity does not want to change your oil

 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: rick-...@cox.net
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

[Jim Martin]

Randy,

I have one of the hand-pump oil changers that cost ~ $ 40. I believe a power oil changer is around $ 120-140. Either is a one time expense that will last for years. You can dispose of the old oil at most any service station or oil change facility. Our marina has a "rule" against changing oil in your slip, but also provides a receptacle for leaving your old oil. The cost per oil change would be ~ $ 10 for 3 qts. non-synthetic oil or $ 15 - 18 for synthetic. Add $ 6 - 8 for the filter and $ 1 for the beverage and you're under $ 25-30.

The Amsoil rep where I buy my oil recommends a 25k mile change interval for my BMW 540, with a filter change and top-off at $ 12.5k. (Sorry about another car reference) The owner of my local independant BMW shop  agrees with this interval but also agrees with my decision to use a 6k filter change and 12k oil/filter change interval. Do any of you oil experts have any idea how this would correlate to small marine diesels? I've just been doing yearly oil/filter changes and put ~ 50 hours a year on our Volvo 18 hp engine.

Jim
_ _

Jim Martin

Peachtree Laser, Inc.

404-352-2565

email: mailto:ptl...@bellsouth.net

website: peachtreelaser.com

[Scott]

Lets see 1 gallon of Delo 400: $10.00, Yanmar oil filter: $10.00, Pella Pump 50.00

 

Total =70.00

 

Buy a quart of 30 wt and do the transmission too

 

http://www.pelaproducts.com/HowToUse2.htm

pegasu...@aol.com wrote:

---

Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

[Scott]

haha yup - more snow on  my 343 yesterday

Labones <lab...@comcast.net> wrote:

---

Never miss an email again!
Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

[Scott]

I've done 11 oil changes on my VW diesel using a Pella extractor, the drain plug has never been out.

 

As for the B343, I've done one oil change and tranny oil change using the same extractor.  Minor issue is that the engine dipstick tube is a little small for the extractor tube and it has to be forced down to the bottom of the pan.  I'll use my west marine oil extractor with a smaller diameter hose next time 

pegasu...@aol.com wrote:

[Scott]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/REVERSO-OIL-CHANGE-PUMP-CUMMINS-YANMAR-VOLVO-MARINE_W0QQitemZ140074312005QQihZ004QQcategoryZ26449QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[pegasu...@aol.com]

I hear what you are saying, and I hear the amsoil recommendation of 25K oil change.  I also am aware of  lubrication constraints of oil and the lubrication seminars I have attended does not support waiting so long for an oil change...........

Joe

 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: ptl...@bellsouth.net
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

[Ca...@aol.com]

In a message dated 1/17/2007 4:19:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, pegasu...@aol.com writes:

I think $200 for an oil change and new filter is excessive.  Definetely less than an hours work....actuallly for someone familar with boats probably 30 minutes is more than enough.
Joe
 

I totally agree ... Purchase one of those suction devices from West Marine and go for it. Takes me <30 minutes every fall.

Cap in MD
Zydeco B473 #20

[Chris C. Hunsicker]

Does 200 bucks for the oil change sound reasonable?

Hi Rick,

I hired a really good mechanic, watched what he did, took notes and pictures
and now feel comfortable doing it all myself.

Chris

[Rob R]

Scott - I am over in Austin - pretty close to SD people/attitude wise.
My sister lives in SD, and I have chartered from Harbor Island Yacht
Club a couple of times. I like that operation - pretty good folks,
decent boats, even when you break them going full throttle in reverse
through the harbor - but that's a whole other story, as Forest Gump
would say. No one/boat was hurt in the making of that story, for the
record.

Rick - as for the oil change, I would highly recommend the Oil Boy from
West Marine. I have owned two of them now over 10 years - great little
units. I even use them to change the oil in my TDI.

Yes, I said TDI. Off topic - not really - it's a diesel engine, and you
never know when you might Learn Something about a peripherially related
piece of equipment. I don't think Diesel engines are off topic,
regardless of where they reside. They basically operate the same way
and require specific maintenance, even if the intervals are different.
Physics are generally similar.

Circling back to your oil change Rick - I highly recommend getting
familiar with that engine. An oil change is a great way to do it, and
it is not very complicated. You can get a basic service manual which
will tell you how to do it, and if you get stuck, you've got the list
here to help you. A great way to start, if you are worried about it,
would be to have a mechanic show you how to do it. Most will oblige
willingly as long as they are being paid, and some actually enjoy the
teaching aspect of it. If you pay a mechanic to supervise, it might
cost you 75 dollars, but you'll recoupe that money very quickly in
piece of mind and of course, engine longevity.

Anyway - again, glad to be here, and hope I have not angered the powers
that be.

Rob

[Rick Donovan]

>>>> You are quite correct in everything you say. When I initially asked the question of the group, I really wanted the advice on the sail performance differences, not necessarily the handling issues.<<<<

 

Dan

 

In the past we have had some discussions about this kind of question that always seemed to end up as handling of

these 2 sails so that is where I went with my reply.

 

From a strictly performance point of view, I would have to say that the symmetrical spinnaker is the better of the 2 sails in general, my opinion of course, and there are certainly exceptions. I am not claiming to be a sail maker or boat designer with my comments here, but I do have experience racing against the asymmetric chutes using a symmetrical chute and that seems to be what you are asking about.

 

From a strictly racing point of view there may be lots of opposite opinions on this, but I am basing mine on having raced a Nelson/Marek 45 against a J-120 for several years here in Maine. There are other examples but I have the most experience with this one and will use it to try to make my point. The J-120 was using asymmetrical chutes exclusively. The J boat regularly had new sails aboard, often had some “ringers” from the North Sail loft helping out, it was always well sailed tactically, the crew made very few mistakes in handling the boat around the course and we still normally beat them down wind.

 

What it seems to come down to, at least as I see it, is that the asymmetrical chute can’t go deep down wind, they must sail angles to keep the air flowing over the sail for their best boat speeds. Those sailing angles don’t match up well with a symmetrical chute in many situations on boats that I have experience with. The gybing angles this J boat needed to sail for its best VMG provided for some rapid speeds thru the water for sure, but not in the best direction of the down wind mark we were sailing to. If they sailed a deeper angle the boat speed was drastically affected.

 

We had a number of races where the J boat would come out of the fog, cross our bow going 12 knots or something, while we were doing 8 knots and sail off into the fog using their VMG plot to sail the correct angles for best VMG, only to show up just behind us on their next gybe back towards the down wind mark. Both of us had computer generated VMG predictions and had crew that understood how to sail their boats well. It was a real eye opener for me. When the J showed up to race that first season, we expected them to do well because the asymmetrical spinnakers seemed like the next new design advantage. This boat simply didn’t prove that to me and I know for a fact the owner was really frustrated at times because he also expected things to be different than how they worked out on the race course, but we had some really fun races over the years with them.

 

The exception for that boat seemed to be in light air, under 6-8 knots true wind speed, when we also needed to sail hot angles to keep the boat moving well. In those conditions the asymmetrical chute seemed to have an advantage if we couldn’t get them to make a mistake out on the course. As soon as the wind reached 10-12 knots, things started to go back our way again because we could get the tack of the symmetrical chute out from behind the main using the spinnaker pole while sailing deeper angles than the J boat was capable of. With the wind at 16-18 knots or more, we could pretty much point at the downwind mark making maximum VMG with the symmetrical chute while they were sailing their gybing angles for their best VMG using the asymetrical. It basically came down to this, the J boat had to sail a longer distance thru the water than we did and that extra distance around the whole race course was what kept them from beating us regularly.

 

 

Rick Donovan

Biddeford, Maine

Beneteau 473 #29

Turn the Page

 

 

[RICK-DAMICO]

Thank you all for the information on the haul - out and oil change. I'll do
my haul - out next year when I have the bottom re-done. And I'll watch the
tech do the oil change - so I can save big bucks!

By the way went sailing last Thursday and Friday in Sunny San Diego, only it
wasn't sunny at all, low clouds, rain and cold, about 58 degrees! But you
know how it is, when your on your boat, all is right with the world.

[Uwe Mewes]

Brian,
I finally got around to check on the compass. It's a "Ritchie Powerdamp".

regards

Uwe Mewes
F305
Heaven Can Wait

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Mikiten" <bmik...@idworld.net>
To: <Benetea...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 11:46 PM
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Replacement compass

>
> I wanted to replace the compass behind the wheel (on the pedestal) on my
> F305. Does anyone know the specs? I think the one installed is a
> Plastimo.
>
> Brian
>
>
> >

[Brian Mikiten]

Great - Thanks!

Brian

[Mark Stillwell]

Brian,

The message below caught my eye.

A friend of mine has a Ritchie compass that he sent back to the company to have rebuilt. He had it on the boat today. Looks like new. He said it was less that half the cost of a new one. His boat is a 1979 Tartan 37.

Mark & Suzanne
"Dragonfly" B331
http://home.att.net/~dragonflyb331/

[Brian Mikiten]

Thanks! I'm going to have the original sent back as a spare.

Brian