Reverse or not when sailing -Yanmar/Volvo-Penta

[Robert Lucchetti]

FYI.

 

Recent article in August issue of Sail Magazine references a technical bulletin (MSA08-003) from Yanmar on this topic. They advise owners of 2GM engines to leave the transmission in neutral when sailing. Risk is damage to the clutch, if put into reverse.

 

Volvo-Penta advises also to free wheel is sailing faster than 15 knots, otherwise leave in reverse. Risk is "driving the engine in reverse." if going 15kn or better and the trans is in reverse..

 

The alternative in both situations is to install a shaft lock, if you wish to not free wheel the prop.

 

Bob L

oc312/Latitudes/Chicago

[Merrill Mant]

Bob,

With my 411 there is very little risk of exceeding a 15 knot speed. ;-)  I always leave the transmission in reverse when sailing as anything spinning like it does when in neutral can't be good for any of the components. 

Cheers,

Merrill

s/v Ambition B411 #155

www.synergymarine.com 

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Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 11:34:18 -0700
From: rvluc...@yahoo.com
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Reverse or not when sailing -Yanmar/Volvo-Penta
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

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[Mark J Wilme]

And who here with a B sails at speeds in excess of 15 knots ?

--

[Cap Munday]

12.7 surfing in 45 knots of breeze. Never again!

Cap Munday

S/V Zydeco

Beneteau 473

[Jeffrey Schwartz]

We hit and stayed at 12 knots this past year participating in the Nassau Cup Race… 20knt winds spinnaker beam reach big seas…quite a ride.

 

Jeffrey Schwartz

[Ivars]

that's everyday speed whenever we go out...  the good numbers are when they get to high 20's and can do it for hours  :=)

---

From: benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 7:49 PM
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: {Beneteau Owners} Reverse or not when sailing -Yanmar/Volvo-Penta

[Dean Forbis]

maybe on your FT in a gale... 

[Lawrence Swack]

I am a new owner to a B 42s7 with a Perkins 50, and a max prop. I have been wondering what is best when sailing and/or just on the mooring.

 

Thanks!

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Lawrence Swack

 
* * * *  *     *                   *
           *    *
               _/)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Love spreads her arms,

waits there for the nails.

I forgive you boy,

I will Prevail.....

 

~ Love Spreads, The Stone Roses

 

It is never too early to start beefing up your obituary.

 

Save paper, Save a tree, Save the planet

[Ivars]

dah   :=)     need a bit of air to get pushed along...     :=)

---

From: benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dean Forbis
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 8:59 PM

[Ivars]

Max prop is self feathering, just enjoy... the water flow will feather the blades... if one is in a hurry, reverse will add pressure to help feather quicker

---

From: benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Swack

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 8:59 PM
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} Reverse or not when sailing -Yanmar/Volvo-Penta

[David Mackintosh]

MaxProp put it in reverse to feather then neutral once it is feathered as a MaxProp can open if you surf and run into the wave ahead rotate the engine in reverse and suck up water into the engine NOT a good idea.

As to damaging or causing excessive wear in your gearbox by having the prop rotate.....................sorry dont buy that one as your gearbox is designed to handle/transmit 20/30/40......100HP why would you think you cant let the prop freely rotate safely with no real load on the gearbox..........noise is an issue of course we have a nice 8/9 knot signal from the prop :-) our three bladed fixed prop is worth .75/1 knot freely rotating over it stopped.

As to 15 knots - we had a First Class Ten - cruising speed under spinnaker {when out cruising} was an EASY 10/12 knots and when it was blowing F5/6 20 knots and more was regularly seen.   I have a photo somewhere of my wife at the helm of the FC10 doing 18/20 knots and she was a not an experienced helm.

regards

David

[bill wagner]

David,

I thought Max prop needed to be in forward for about a few knots, then turn off engine to feather ( don't go to neutral). It can be left in that position or put in reverse.

Bill

[David Mackintosh]

It has been known (took a while to work out what was going on) for a feathered MaxProp to open when a boat surfs down a wave and the wave overtakes the boat and IF you have left the gearbox in gear to rotate the engine backwards and suck up some water from the waterlock..and of course hydraulic the engine and damage it.

regards

David

[Sam Dadier]

So Dave, I should leave the MaxProp in neutral all the time when sailing?
Len

[David Mackintosh]

Yes

regards

David

[Greg Arnold]

On 7/24/2012 5:20 AM, David Mackintosh wrote:
> MaxProp put it in reverse to feather then neutral once it is feathered
> as a MaxProp can open if you surf and run into the wave ahead rotate
> the engine in reverse and suck up water into the engine NOT a good idea.

Are there documented instances of this happening? I can't quite picture
how the water at the prop could be moving forward faster that the boat.
And if the prop did open, it would promptly feather again unless it
opened in the reverse position. And if it did open in the reverse
position, I am doubtful it would turn the engine -- many sailors with
fixed props sail around happily with the engine in reverse gear, and
they don't seem to have problems with the prop turning the engine.

[Captain Guy]

A few years back (well 1959 or so), I used a spinning prop to push-start a
GM 6-71 diesel. I had a 30' work boat with large prop (24" I think),

I had a dead battery and was being towed by a CG 40'... I heard the prop
spinning and hit the starter-button and shifted into fwd at the same time...
the extra power of the large spinning prop was enough to turn over the
engine and voila.

Whether a 18" sailing at 6-9 kts be enough to crank a small diesel, is hard
to say.

guy

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:55 PM
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} Reverse or not when
sailing -Yanmar/Volvo-Penta

[Captain Guy]

I don’t think the wave overtakes the boat; it just raises the boat as you surf from one wave to the next, or the wave mushes out as it breaks.

 

guy

[Mohammad Bayegan]

With MAX prop putting the engine in reverse it will insure the prop not to feather.

It should be in forward and then turn the engine off this will feather the prop and then you

can leave it in forward or in neutral check Max prop web sight it will confirm this.

Marengo B 49

Galveston, Texas

----- Original Message -----

From: Greg Arnold

To: benetea...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:55 AM

Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} Reverse or not when sailing -Yanmar/Volvo-Penta

[David Mackintosh]

YES it is documented (and is probably still online) and i suppose you know you can force a MaxPro to say open and not feather................i was/i am planning to use this feature to drive a PSA.................as to when this was documented sadly time is flying by so fast now i cant quite put a time line on this.  I suspect it was around 10/15 years ago.  Also i am not at home and my copy of this will be on a old PC in my cellar running WIN 95/98.  For the MaxProp to open and stay open it follows that the water WAS going faster than the boat.  Also from memory as the engine was rotated in reverse the bow down stern up angle of the boat reduced the height of the waterlock vis a vis the engine and then with the boat stopping the water in the waterlock continued to travel forwards into the engine assisted by the engine turning backwards.

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[David Mackintosh]

yes i got that bit wrong :-(  putting it in reverse locks it open which is why i can use a MaxProp with a PSA..............sorry.

regards

David

[Howard]

Just installed a brand new classic 3-blade Max-Prop on my 1998 Beneteau 411 hull #10 with a Westerbeke 42B engine and JS trans.  Here's the info copied and pasted exactly from the installation instructions...which are also available online at PYI web site:
5) PROPELLER USE The Max-prop works automatically. By putting the engine
in gear the blades will engage in either forward or reverse. The best way to
feather the propeller is:
• Power at 2 to 3 knots in forward.
• Kill the engine while still engaged in forward.
• When the engine has stopped, if the shaft is still spinning engage the
transmission in reverse to stop the freewheeling.
You can check to see if the propeller is feathered or not by taking the engine
out of gear. If the propeller is not feathered the shaft will freewheel like with a
fixed blade propeller.
In that case start the engine again and repeat the three steps. If your
propeller has been greased properly it will feather in a fraction of a second as
soon as you stop the shaft from freewheeling. Once the prop is feathered,
you can either leave the transmission in gear or out of gear, it does not
matter. DO NOT kill the engine while in reverse. In this case the blades will
be in the reverse position and will not feather. You can actually use this
feature to drive a shaft alternator.
....Howard
DRYC Marina del Rey (Los Angeles)
P.S. fyi: MaxProp no longer makes a 3-blade VP.