Fridge Insulation

[Fletch]

Can any of the members shed light on an economical and effective way
to improve the insulation of the freezer and fridge on the 400/411
model. Alos any experience on changing the adler/babour to water
versus air cooling. Much saving in power?

Heading south and need to get this equipment more effecient.

Fletch

[Scott]

there was an article in practival sailor awhile back  - you can add a bubble wrap type insulation

Fletch <davidcf...@rogers.com> wrote:

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[Palio]

While we're on the subject, I wonder if anyone has converted a similar
sized (Oceanis 40cc) boat's two lidded refrigerator to a referigerator/
freezer? My Unit is currently a Frigomatic AV 12 - Is that adequate to
serve both functions maybe with a divider installed? Or, do I need to
get separate compressors for each compartment?

On the insulation - I understand from one owner that he took apart the
entire area around the boxes, and found that only a small area between
the boxes and the hull were available for added insulation outside the
boxes. He was able to add about an inch of foamed in place insulation
(there is a low pressure foam used to install door jambs - it won't
put strain on the boxes like the "Great Stuff" variety).

Cheers,

Lloyd Bray
Palio
Edisto Island, SC

[Rick Donovan]

the quality of the insulation is more important than the amount. some companies like Glacier Bay have the high end product that will give much better results (R factor as I recall) with the same thickness as you have now. BUT on a production line boat like Beneteau, access to do anything like adding and or changing insulation around the fridge compartment is going to be difficult at best. 

Rick Donovan

2002 Beneteau 473

Turn the Page

Falmouth, Maine

[DAVID FLETCHER]

Is there a more efficient system than the Adler Barbour cold machine?

[Rick Donovan]

David,

Our 473 has the Adler Barbour system and we have had good results and no problems with it over 6 seasons. I don't have the numbers here at home but I have recorded the cycling of the unit a number of times since we owned the boat. we seem to average just about 28 minutes each hour with the system running at about 5 amps draw. we average very consistently about 60-65 amp hours each 24 hours to run our system through out the season. It is definitely the biggest hog of power onboard while we are cruising.

While trying to find a way to reduce our amp use I took temperatures on the condenser, it's supply lines, the heat exchanger etc. and spoke with Adler about my results. the tech I spoke with confirmed what I had in my mind, that the insulation and more importantly the build or design of the production ice box leaves a lot to be desired. He was comfortable with the numbers I had recorded and thought that we were in good shape there. when asking about the addition of the water cooling as a possible help to our amp hour consumption, he made the point that it will be one more motor running to feed with power even if it did shorten the cycle time slighttly and didn't suggest making that change unless in very warm climates. that is not a problem for us in Maine and New England. if going south for any amount of time then it might become a little more interesting to pursue and would require more calculations to see if it would pay off in amps used even then. 

there are some options that I would consider before tearing my galley apart and one of them is this unit. it comes in several different sizes and friends have had good results using them.   http://www.i-m-d.com/engel/1products.htm

Rick Donovan

2002 Beneteau 473

Turn the Page

Falmouth, Maine

[Dan....@carrier.utc.com]

Lloyd,

I have an OC 440 with the top loading fridge / freezer setup. The freezer
(about 80 l = 2.83 cuft) is half the volume of the fridge (about 160 l =
5.65 cuft), they are next to each other and they have separate lids. There
is a divider between the two.

The boat originally came with an eutectic coil and engine driven compressor
system (Frigoboat, "Maxi" size). I have subsequently installed an electric
fridge / freezer, without removing the eutectic system. This way I have
redundancy, plus when motoring I run the eutectic system, which helps save
power later.

Both evaporator coil and eutectic tank are positioned so that they are about
75% in the freezer and 25% in the fridge space (they go through the
divider). I have meticulously sealed all the holes in the divider between
the two sections and also try to maintain good quality seals on the contact
surfaces between the lids and the fridge / freezer top. This provides very
good results, with the freezer temperatures about -15 degC (5 degF) and the
fridge about +4 degC (39 degF).

The electric system I've selected is Veco (Frigoboat) Capri 50F (variable
speed Danfoss compressor) with evaporator coil model 340B. You can look them
up on the net. I also installed their "Smart Speed Control" unit, which
automatically varies the compressor speed according to the conditions,
utilising the philosophy that the least power consumption will result from
running the unit at the lowest speed for the longest time. It seems to work
well, the unit operates most of the time at the lowest speed. That way it's
on for about 50% of the time, with the power consumption of about 3.7A, or
about 45 Ah per 24 hours. That's the theory, in reality I feel it's more
like 50 Ah a day, due to the fact that the fridge and freezer get opened
multiple times a day with predictable results.

So, to answer your question, it is possible to have a single compressor
system running both fridge and freezer, like in your and my setup. I don't
know if your existing AV 12 compressor would be powerful enough. The only
way to find out is to measure your fridge / freezer volume and then consult
the manufacturer's specs.

Regards,
Dan
S/V 'Babar', '94 OC440

-----Original Message-----
From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Palio
Sent: Friday, 4 January 2008 5:32
To: Beneteau Owners
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Fridge Insulation

[Surfer Gil]

One other way to get an efficient freezer on board is a stand-alone
unit from Engel. They are very efficient, well built and freeze ice
cream to hard to get a spoon in. They can also be used as a fridge.
The only issue is space. They do have a sliding mount to be used in
lockers with horizontal access.

I inherited a redundant system of Seafrost engine driven to 1 plate in
smaller compartment and a Grunet water cooled with evap/freezer space
in larger compartment in a side-by-side 2 compartment box on a B445.
Using both works quite well. There is a few cirulation holes in the
divider. I could add a 2nd plate to the small compartment and get a
frezer out of the deal.

Many ways to cool a cat.

[Michel Sirois]

I wonder if anybody has ever tried adding insulation to the side, under and
back of boxes using cans of expanding insulation foam thru some access
holes???

Michel Sirois
Quasida B473

----- Original Message -----
From: "Surfer Gil" <g...@ansano.com>
To: "Beneteau Owners" <Benetea...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 10:02 AM
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Fridge Insulation

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[Merrill Mant]

David,
We have a dual system on board our 411 - Engine Driven Sea Frost and a 12V Alder Barbor system. Both systems are completely independent and the plates are installed in the freezer side with a thermostatically controlled fan on the fridge side. This fan then cycles on and off moving cold air from the freezer to the fridge and pushing air back through an opening at the top of the fridge into the freezer compartment.
If I were to build this system from scratch again, I would retain the duality of the systems but I would have the two share the same cold plates in the freezer side. That would then give me the benefit of only one plate system working full time and the choice of plate freezing either electrically through the 12V system or through the engine driven Sea Frost.
The engine drive unit is without a doubt an expensive alternative to the 12V systems but if you will be charging batteries daily down south by running your engine then adding the load of the engine driven compressor as well as the alternator will only make the diesel happier to work a little more. 
The most critical component I have discovered is the lid or door seals. A tight and high quality seal will improve any systems performance dramatically. The second contributor to poor performance is insufficient cooling of the 12V compressor / condenser unit. I have added ducting and a fan as I discovered as the cockpit locker (where the unit is installed) filled with sails and stuff, the unit was missing cooling and running too long.
 
Cheers,
Merrill
s/v Ambition B411 #154

---

From: davidcf...@rogers.com
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Fridge Insulation

Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:09:41 -0500

Is there a more efficient system than the Adler Barbour cold machine?

----- Original Message -----

From: Rick Donovan

To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:23 PM

Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Fridge Insulation

the quality of the insulation is more important than the amount. some companies like Glacier Bay have the high end product that will give much better results (R factor as I recall) with the same thickness as you have now. BUT on a production line boat like Beneteau, access to do anything like adding and or changing insulation around the fridge compartment is going to be difficult at best. 

Rick Donovan

2002 Beneteau 473

Turn the Page

Falmouth, Maine

<BR

[DAVID FLETCHER]

My unit is mounted under the sink in the galley, it does get quite warn in there in the summer. I am thinking strongly about changing it to a system that uses water and or air for cooling. There is a thru hull fitting there and the overflow can go out the sink drain.

 

EZ Kold in Picton has a kit that can modify it. http://www.e-zkold.com/conversion.htm

 

I totally agree on the seal for the lid and door, On the 400 the freezer lid just sits in place, am I correct the 411 has hardware to hold the lid tight?

 

Cheers

[Alex Khantil]

We used about 7 cans of insulation for our 373. We went to Benneteau factory to see what the cabinets look like before they are installed. They did not allow us to take pictures but we made some sketches. There were no dramatic differences BUT the fridge and freezer worked better and more economical. If your fridge and freezer are separated by a stove or a cabinet the place to concentrate the insulation is where the pipes are between the units(if working from a single compressor).

[Michel Sirois]

I new somebody must have tried that!

 

Thanks for reply

Michel

[Ca...@aol.com]

In a message dated 1/3/2008 9:48:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, richard....@verizon.net writes:

there are some options that I would consider before tearing my galley apart and one of them is this unit. it comes in several different sizes and friends have had good results using them.   http://www.i-m-d.com/engel/1products.htm

Richard,

We got the Norcold that looks a lot like the 45 and we it is excellent. It doesn't pull much power and makes veggies, milk, wine and soda easily available. Those tall things that take up so much space in the fridge. It was $900 and we don't regret it.

We have a screw in 12V connection leading to a dedicated Fridge 2 switch on the 12V panel. It is tied in with bolts on the bulkhead and a Sears strap. I can get to the stbd engine access without moving it but have to move it if the A/C through hull and strainer need servicing. We really rely on it for those bulky things that crowd out the mini fridge next to the freezer.

The freezer, though, is excellent. I replaced the seal around the lid with excellent results. We now have to defrost about every 2 months. It holds enough food for at least that long! Actually, we brought food on board in August that we are still pecking away at.

A digression. Today a Christmas package arrived from MD friends filled with Omaha Steak goodies (no steaks but 12 burgers along with other goodies). I stir fried the Kung Pau Shrimp tonight and it was absolutely excellent! Wow! If you ever find yourselves with too much money and want a treat, this is an excellent option to both reduce $$ and increase joy.

Cap in NC


**************
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
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[Ca...@aol.com]

I have to add that the Norcold is an excellent seat for browsing the fridge and near by cupboards. We got a magnetic light that is stuck to the Norcold lid that we use to check out hidden parts of the 'basement' aft and cupboards.

Cap & Linda Munday
Zydeco, Beneteau 473 #20
Linda - 443-994-0457
Cap - 909-969-3379
Maryland