Backfilling Jabsco Head

[Bruce Byrnes]

The jabsco manual head on my B361 is backfilling with waste water after we leave the boat. I assume the joker valve or bottom valve gasket are shot. I plan to replace valves this weekend. Is this likely to be as disgusting a job as I am afraid of? I pumped out the holding tank, but assume I will still get some residual waste pouring out. I am a head maintenance virgin. Any suggestions or tips on doing this job in the least disgusting way? Thanks.

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[Howard Rosenberg]

They don't call it a "joker" valve for nothing....    :)   My engineering friends say it's properly called a "check" valve.  Actually "check" brings up the $$$$ issue of the cost of maintaining a boat.  It is designed to let the yucky stuff flow 1-way.
Before I pull the joker valve, I drain the holding tank and flush it out with water to minimize the yucky smell.
Here's a handy suggestion for removing/reattaching the valve and fitting:  Don't just remove the usual 2 flange screws first.....consider removing the 2 hose clamps first and carefully remove the big black hose.  Leave the hose off until the valve and fitting is reattached to the head.  This will help getting the joker and fitting properly reattached to the head.  I recall my early days doing the job....and stripping the screw threads because that big black hose makes it very tough to attach the fitting.  Done without thinking can make it a lonnnnng day......arg....  We use both heads on our 411...and we (meaning ME) change the joker valves out every year.
Howard
"Encore" 411 #10
Marina del Rey (Los Angeles)

[Larry Cohan]

Bruce Byrnes wrote:

I am a head maintenance virgin.  Any suggestions or tips on doing this job in the least disgusting way?  Thanks

Bruce, if you're a head maintenance virgin then I'm probably a whore.  ;-)  My pappy always told me, "If you're scared of sticking your hands in *&%#, don't be a plumber."  He should have said, "... don't be a sailor".

Your symptoms do indeed sound like a joker valve problem.  However, consider doing a full rebuild of the head rather than just replacing the joker valve.  For reasons that will become even more obvious after your experiences this weekend, you want to minimize the number of times that you get inside the head so replace all the replaceable parts while you're there.  In many cases, you have to buy the entire rebuild kit just to get a joker valve anyway.  The rebuild kit usually has at least a diagram and perhaps even some text instructions.

Another thing to consider:  I personally have found it easier to unbolt the head and remove it from the boat in order to do a rebuild rather than trying to do it in the confined spaces "in situ."  More exactly, I

• "Dry bowl" the head as much as possible
• Put at least a half-bowl full of fresh water in the bowl (I use the telephone shower to do it)
  
• Dry bowl it again
• Close the sea cocks
• Disconnect the sea water and waste hose connecting brackets if possible rather than the hoses themselves which makes it much easier to reinstall.
• Carefully take the head out of the boat.  Put a towel down in the companionway so you won't scratch the teak when you have to set it down.
• Once on the dock, flush it out really well with your dock hose
• Take it home and do the rebuild on your workbench so all your tools will be handy
• Wear rubber gloves
  
• Have a beer or two when you're done.  Congratulations.

If you decide to do the work on the boat, make sure you have a big 110v. fan blowing over you ... and double-glove.

Larry

[Labones]

Going on the 4th year now and have the same Raritan joker valve in my Jabsco.  Before that it was on the spring prep list to change every year.

 

Terry and Amanda

OC381 Marie Claire

 

lab...@comcast.net

[Mike Ordun]

Bruce,

Changing the joker is reasonably straightforward and should not present
much of a challenge. The back-flow that you are going to get when you
remove the fitting from the head is the water (and other stuff) that is
sitting between the joker and the discharge between the top you holding
tank in the wall behind the head; this is a little over 5 feet of vertical
hose. You can minimize this back-flow by turning the Y-valve under the
sink to overboard discharge. This will hold over 4 feet of this above the
valve. Now you can flush the line good with fresh water pumping it all
overboard. Put some bleach in and let it sit for a while if you like. Now
when you disconnect from the head you will only have about a foot of
relatively clean discharge to deal with.

Mike Ordun
s/v insanity B361

[im...@sympatico.ca]

It's really not that bad a job. Pump a lot of fresh water through, maybe
some (non-bleach) bathroom cleaner as well, so any backwash is clean.

Get the new valve ready and put some paper towels out on the floor as well.
As soon as you loosen the 2 screws you can pull the valve assembly off,
then lift it as high as possible so the backwash stops. I use a large
measuring cup to pour the backwash into, it has a handle and it fits into a
small area. Take out the old valve, put in the new one and put it back in
place - it's really a two minute job, not a big deal at all.

I think that the new valves are worse quality than they used to be. The
valve that came with the boat from the factory lasted about 6 weeks, and the
new one I put in needs to be replaced again, after less than one season. If
you have any ideas about an alternate supplier, I'd appreciate it!

Martin

>From: Bruce Byrnes <brucej...@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
>To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Backfilling Jabsco Head

[Larry & Maribeth]

The Raritan joker valve walls are much thicker than Jabsco's. Looks a little
different but fits well. The newer Jabsco valves are inferior to what they
used to have. Labones has had his Raritan in for 4 years when he used to
change Jabsco's every spring. Have had to change Jabsco's 3 times in one
season when a new one didn't seal.

Larry J.

[rob]

you can rebuild or change out the joker valve. a quick check of the WM
site shows the head (complete, ready to drop in, all new including the
seat) is on sale for $129. the rebuild kits are $65. for $64, I would
go big and get a new head for the admiral. too bad you missed mothers
day for that one. joker valves are about 12 bucks.

if you rebuild, remove the whole head and do far away with hose and a
strong breeze as others have noted. have plugs or plastic bags in hand
to cap the head hoses. have a tripled garbage bag in hand for the head
you are removing. if you are doing the joker, you may as well rebuild
the whole thing while you're there -- you will not want to go back for
the pump next year (trust me on that). since you are now going to do
the whole thing, see comment above and decide the $64 question.

rob on Avant

On Jun 19, 11:14 am, Bruce Byrnes <brucejbyr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The jabsco manual head on my B361 is backfilling with waste water after we leave the boat. I assume the joker valve or bottom valve gasket are shot. I plan to replace valves this weekend. Is this likely to be as disgusting a job as I am afraid of? I pumped out the holding tank, but assume I will still get some residual waste pouring out. I am a head maintenance virgin. Any suggestions or tips on doing this job in the least disgusting way? Thanks.
>

> ___________________________________________________________________________­_________

[Mark R.]

As I read you post I swear I was reading an email I sent to a
distributor of Jabasco http://Jabscoshop.com.

I was trying to find out what parts to order for the same reasons you
have. The site has schematics of the heads, but it is not clear what
service kit to purchase or if you can buy the individual parts.

I thought you would find their reply helpful. Their site is good
also, because it shows you how all the lego pieces fit together.

Regarding your virgin experience, after you have gained some wordly
knowledge I need you to come over to our boat and help me clean up a
mess (bring your fan and double gloves with you).

The discharge hose from the head came disconnected from the holding
tank without my knowledge. For several days we had been pumping
"stuff" into our bilge.

That explained the foul oder.

-Mark Read
"Calpurnia"
Oceanis Beneteau 461
http://GoReads.com

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Thank you

I think you should probably replace the joker valve and the base valve
gasket. These 2 parts are probably cheaper than a kit but maybe while
you have it apart it is perhaps worth fitting a service kit.

Regards
Jon Paterson
http://JABSCOshop.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Read [mailto:ma...@goreads.com]
Sent: 11 June 2007 23:43
To: Shop, Jabsco - Cleghorn Waring
Subject: Jabsco toilet problem

Hello,

I have a manual Jabsco model 29090-2000 toilet. The problem that I am
having is that waste water is "slowly" filling the bowl back up after
use.

The bowl does not over flow, perhpas it goes up 2/3 or so. Not sure
what makes it stop.

The water is not sea water, but clearly waste water.

I have a vented loop.

It is my understanding that a failed valve, will not retain it's
closed
shape and will allow waste water to back fill. Is this correct ?

It was not clear on your website which part I need to order.

It was also not clear if it is cheaper to purchase the repair kit or a
new pump assembly.

Your help is appreciated,

[Max Lynn]

You guys got my conscience agitated.  I've had a couple of "incidences"  recently of the head  regurgitating at high angles of heel and big seas.  So I went down to the boat today and did the deed.  Sure enough, five years of use had brought the internals to a sad state of repair.  Not to mention the heavy build-up of salts.  I dug the rebuild kit out of the spares inventory and spent a couple of hours communing with Mr. Jabsco.   Having this fresh (?) in my mind, I would recommend replacing all the major valve parts included with the rebuild kit. Mine were uniformly well-worn, and had I just replaced the joker valve, I would have been back in there very shortly.  I've just done a little research in the way of replacing the rebuild kit, and found that Defender has it on sale for the paltry sum of $35.83.    BTW, the rebuild kit P/N for the basic manual Jabsco is 29045-2000.

 

FYI

Max Lynn

First 40.7 "Tranquility"

 

 

 

-- Original Message -----

From: Mark R.

To: Beneteau Owners

Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:41 PM

Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Backfilling Jabsco Head

[Critical]

While you are at it, consider installing a vented loop if you don't
already have one. That's what Jabsco recommended when I called them
about the problem. The loop prevents the holding tank from backing up
to the head, so the only backup possible then will the volume in the
hose between the head and the top of the vent loop.

I replace our joker valve each spring, when the tank has been emptied,
and only antifreeze is in the hose. Midseason, I would imagine that
pumping out the tank with some good flushes, including pumping several
volumes of clean tap water through the head should minimize the nasty
splashes.

Claudio Martin
"Critical" First 36.7

On Jun 19, 2:14 pm, Bruce Byrnes <brucejbyr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The jabsco manual head on my B361 is backfilling with waste water after we leave the boat. I assume the joker valve or bottom valve gasket are shot. I plan to replace valves this weekend. Is this likely to be as disgusting a job as I am afraid of? I pumped out the holding tank, but assume I will still get some residual waste pouring out. I am a head maintenance virgin. Any suggestions or tips on doing this job in the least disgusting way? Thanks.
>

> ___________________________________________________________________________­_________

[bbigd...@aol.com]

Where do you get the Raritan joker valve?  It is not listed in West Marine.

Bill

---

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

[K J]

I just ordered one online at Blue Water Ships Store - $24.03 with shipping.
Pricey but none of the local marine stores carry this one.

Kathy
B331 - August Winds II

>From: bbigd...@aol.com
>Reply-To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
>To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Backfilling Jabsco Head

>Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:26:10 -0400
>
>
> Where do you get the Raritan joker valve?? It is not listed in West
>Marine.
>
>Bill
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>________________________________________________________________________

>AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
>from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>>

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[Larry & Maribeth]

I just checked Raritan's page and you can buy direct from them. Select the
'New Web Store' link and the C253 is this first thing you see. The C253 is
$16.76 + S&H.. Don't know if the C254 would fit.

Larry J.

[Larry Cohan]

Mark R. wrote:
> The discharge hose from the head came disconnected from the holding
> tank without my knowledge. For several days we had been pumping
> "stuff" into our bilge.

Don't cha just hate when that happens?

[Larry Cohan]

Critical wrote:
> I replace our joker valve each spring

The joker valve on my Groco K head lasts about 3-4 years, which probably
explains why I usually do a complete rebuild at the same time.

The Groco K is an expensive head but it has bronze rather than plastic
innards and the parts are industrial strength.

Larry